Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017)(cambridge.org)
cambridge.org
Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons (2017)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-economic-history/article/origins-of-the-sicilian-mafia-the-market-for-lemons/52B18A611BD8AE26B4FDE3814A4239F1
38 comments
>Wow, so they lived long enough to see themselves become the bad guy?
As always, money and power corrupts. If you can get away doing bad stuff to bad people, what's stopping you from getting away from doing bad stuff to everyone to increase your RoI.
As always, money and power corrupts. If you can get away doing bad stuff to bad people, what's stopping you from getting away from doing bad stuff to everyone to increase your RoI.
Similarly, the Chinese (and Chinese-American) Tongs started out as helpful organizations that did things like look after the widows and children of deceased members and protect Chinese immigrants in America from racist gangs, but as they got more powerful they too began to become criminal organizations.
Similarly there was a country that once said:
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"
... now they erect border walls.
"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"
... now they erect border walls.
Your missing one crucial element, the cold light of day, in other words exposure for all to see, much like what the media do when looking at their activities and role within society.
Of course, that doesn't draw any attention to their pre-emptive spying activities or the fact they seem unable to give up their sources and disrespect for privacy or thorough investigation.
Of course, that doesn't draw any attention to their pre-emptive spying activities or the fact they seem unable to give up their sources and disrespect for privacy or thorough investigation.
This is true throughout south Italy. The mafia guarded the population against the parade of monarchies which ruled over the region for hundreds (thousands) of years.
Many of the largest gangs and criminal organizations active today began as self-defense or neighborhood defense groups.
"The Bloods was initially formed to provide members protection from the Crips." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods)
"Originally, [MS-13] was set up to protect Salvadoran immigrants from other gangs in the Los Angeles area." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13)
"The inmates who formed the Nuestra Familia gang banded together to protect themselves from the Mexican Mafia" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuestra_Familia)
"The [Los Viagras cartel] began operating as a self-defense force (grupos de autodefensa comunitaria) in 2014." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Viagras)
"The Bloods was initially formed to provide members protection from the Crips." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloods)
"Originally, [MS-13] was set up to protect Salvadoran immigrants from other gangs in the Los Angeles area." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13)
"The inmates who formed the Nuestra Familia gang banded together to protect themselves from the Mexican Mafia" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuestra_Familia)
"The [Los Viagras cartel] began operating as a self-defense force (grupos de autodefensa comunitaria) in 2014." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Viagras)
That aspect is disputed. It’s not entirely clear how much of that story is self-mythology by the mafia.
The average person has no idea how hard life was back then. I think something like 50% of a ships sailors would die from scurvy on long distance voyages. East Indian Company's ships could lose 70%. And a lot of these dudes were getting kidnapped and forced into service by press gangs (Naval ships). The market for lemons was life and death...Every day I thank God that I'm alive in the 21st century.
Saw an episode of the show "Finding Your Roots", exploring the ancestry of the guests.
One of the guests was of Italian descent and one of his ancestors moved from Sicily to Louisiana in the late 19th Century. Many of those Italians worked as laborers on the sugar plantations.
So, as Henry Louis Gates, Jr., the host, said, Sicily was so poor that working on a Louisiana sugar plantation was better.
One of the guests was of Italian descent and one of his ancestors moved from Sicily to Louisiana in the late 19th Century. Many of those Italians worked as laborers on the sugar plantations.
So, as Henry Louis Gates, Jr., the host, said, Sicily was so poor that working on a Louisiana sugar plantation was better.
I learned about the plight of Sicilian immigrants in New Orleans at that time from Annie Proulx's historical fiction book "Accordion Crimes". She was inspired in a large part by a lynching of Italian immigrants which was depicted in the book https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891_New_Orleans_lynchings
Yeah but then you hear about tribal societies, which didn't have access to modern medicine but they spent a lot of time just sort of hanging out and having sex and the only other thing they did was walk long distances and hunt and pick berries and shit. THAT doesn't sound terrible at all.
Hunting sounds fun to us because we’re like fat domestic cats. Do some hunting, then go back to your supermarket dinner. Maybe eat what you caught as a special treat, if it’s nice.
Subsistence hunting is more like didn’t catch anything today? Guess we starve until next time. oopsies. Hope you don’t get too hungry and weak to perform at your next hunt. Fingers crossed.
Subsistence hunting is more like didn’t catch anything today? Guess we starve until next time. oopsies. Hope you don’t get too hungry and weak to perform at your next hunt. Fingers crossed.
It's been a while since I had an anthropology class. If I remember correctly, it's really tied to how harsh the environment was. So natives in Alaska had to hunt or starve. For equatorial people, the stakes were much lower. There was an abundance of alternatives.
One way to look at it, how much art did they produce? Lots of art? Food was probably pretty easy to come by. Scratch a line on a log? Those folks worked _hard_ to survive.
I'm sure there were lean times for everybody. I'm not trying to say you or parent poster are wrong, I'm saying it's a big world, and all of those things and more were true for somebody, somewhere.
One way to look at it, how much art did they produce? Lots of art? Food was probably pretty easy to come by. Scratch a line on a log? Those folks worked _hard_ to survive.
I'm sure there were lean times for everybody. I'm not trying to say you or parent poster are wrong, I'm saying it's a big world, and all of those things and more were true for somebody, somewhere.
> One way to look at it, how much art did they produce? Lots of art? Food was probably pretty easy to come by. Scratch a line on a log? Those folks worked _hard_ to survive.
That's really only applicable to desert civilizations and those in colder environments where decomposition is arrested, which were unfortunately the harsher environments. Humans in the tropics are more likely to use wood and other organic materials to produce art, which don't survive for very long.
The oldest wooden art is only 9,500 years old [1] whereas the oldest stone tools are over 3 million years old [2]. The oldest wooden tools, on the other hand, are hundreds of thousands of years old for spears and tens of thousands of years old for axe handles.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomekwi
That's really only applicable to desert civilizations and those in colder environments where decomposition is arrested, which were unfortunately the harsher environments. Humans in the tropics are more likely to use wood and other organic materials to produce art, which don't survive for very long.
The oldest wooden art is only 9,500 years old [1] whereas the oldest stone tools are over 3 million years old [2]. The oldest wooden tools, on the other hand, are hundreds of thousands of years old for spears and tens of thousands of years old for axe handles.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigir_Idol
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomekwi
Also, like 50% of deaths in tribal society were from violence. Believe me, your current life is better.
Interesting, do you have any sources for this?
I can't give a source but a figure I heard was 30% to 90% of males died prematurely in preindustrial[1] cultures due to violence.
Can't remember the source, sorry.
[1] My word, afraid I can't recall the right/more precise one.
(Edit: I went looking for the source for this figure, tried Google, plugged in the text "30% to 90% of males died prematurely violence preindustrial" and the very first result was this exact comment! After less than 9 minutes! Although strangely, Google reports it as being 13 hours ago? All very odd).
Can't remember the source, sorry.
[1] My word, afraid I can't recall the right/more precise one.
(Edit: I went looking for the source for this figure, tried Google, plugged in the text "30% to 90% of males died prematurely violence preindustrial" and the very first result was this exact comment! After less than 9 minutes! Although strangely, Google reports it as being 13 hours ago? All very odd).
Does Google have anyone tasked with investigating and resolving such mysteries?
Not so great for childbirth, infants, elderly, those who do get sick, etc
One of the operative activities there, hunting, seems quite stressful. Not sure that a return to said tradition would feel like a step forward for a lot of folks.
This being an economics paper, the title alludes to a very famous paper by Akerlof that everyone has read called The Market for Lemons, ostensibly about used cars but illuminating a broad principle of how markets can malfunction.
Discussed in 2018, "Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons"
60 comments <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16148110>
If we want to go even backwards, the sudden demand for citrus fruit in Sicily was due to the high incidence of scurvy in long-distance sea expedition in the 1800s, that were in turn facilitated by new methods of measuring longitude, first of all the invention of the chronometer, a watch (portable, small) with clock (precise) characteristics that was the great disruptive invention of its age. In the end, we can say that mafia originated from the desire of knowing what time is exactly in the borough of Greenwich, London, when you are in the middle of the Atlantic.
I watched a travel show about Sicily and it mentioned how the residents rented and worked in fields owned by absentee land owners. People were fed up paying rent with no hope of owning the land owned by someone who didn't even live on the island.
Here in Canada one of the reasons my island province is a province of Canada is because it joined Canada for exactly the same reasons Sicily had with absentee landowners. We're the Sicily of Canada I guess.
Here in Canada one of the reasons my island province is a province of Canada is because it joined Canada for exactly the same reasons Sicily had with absentee landowners. We're the Sicily of Canada I guess.
> We're the Sicily of Canada I guess.
I'm not from Canada, and I don't really know what province you are talking about (my guess is Newfoundland). But aside from the analogy that it's an island, is there anything deeper in what you are trying to say? Is the organized crime a problem in your province?
I'm not from Canada, and I don't really know what province you are talking about (my guess is Newfoundland). But aside from the analogy that it's an island, is there anything deeper in what you are trying to say? Is the organized crime a problem in your province?
No unusual crime perhaps we have the least crime of anywhere in Canada or even all of the Americas. We're PEI not Newfoundland although to be correct its name is Newfoundland and Labrador now.
I meant it's the island way of life and absentee landlords issue and how it spurred great changes for PEI and Sicily.
I meant it's the island way of life and absentee landlords issue and how it spurred great changes for PEI and Sicily.
So was Sicily the only producer of citrus fruit in the world?
If not, did mafias form on every location where citrus fruit was produced?
The article says that the sudden surge in demand for citrus coupled with weak law is what triggered it
Wouldn’t that have happened in a lot of other places as well?
Doesn’t seem to be specific enough
If not, did mafias form on every location where citrus fruit was produced?
The article says that the sudden surge in demand for citrus coupled with weak law is what triggered it
Wouldn’t that have happened in a lot of other places as well?
Doesn’t seem to be specific enough
Article mentions the climate and growing conditions for citrus are specific so there were few locations where citrus was produced that were integrated to world trade; mild temperatures above freezing, irrigation, and rich soil.
The article mentions large lemon exports from Sicily all the way to New York; and California wasn't a united state or developed market producer of fruit at this time.
yes sicily was one of the largest citrus exporters globally
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Ha! So The Godfather had yet another layer of meaning :-p [1]
1: https://screenrant.com/godfather-oranges-important-symbol-wh...
1: https://screenrant.com/godfather-oranges-important-symbol-wh...
In general, Sicily has a very tight economic and cultural bound with oranges and lemons. Citrus fruit are extremely difficult to grow where winter gets cold (that's why the richest in Europe had enormous rooms in which you moved whole trees during winter, called orangeries [0]) and Sicily was the lead world producer of oranges in a time when it was impossible to grow them systematically anywhere else. If you're Italian, the correlation Sicily - oranges is almost automatic.
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangery
0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangery
What are the implications (predictions) for Mexico? For the drug trade in the U.S.?
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The duck walked up to the lemonade stand, and said to the man, running the stand “put the lemons in the bag badabing”
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Wow, so they lived long enough to see themselves become the bad guy? Weird to think the mafia started out as individual Batman like figures. I guess when life gives you lemons, form a cartel.