What can you do with money?
86 comments
Many startup founders are people who like to make things. So often the kind of work they do after they have the freedom to do what they they want is to make things where they're not constrained by the need to make money.
Oddly enough, YC itself is an example. We may make money eventually, but our main motive for doing it was that it was a cool idea.
Oddly enough, YC itself is an example. We may make money eventually, but our main motive for doing it was that it was a cool idea.
If I remember correctly you once hinted you had more to say about the benefits of having a decent supply of capital, but the generally hostile attitude people had to talk of success made you reluctant to share. I'm sure plenty of news.YCer's who'd like to know a bit more about life post liquidity event.
Is it hard to be motivated when you know that low risk investments could keep you comfortable? Though I'm sure the pleasure of a fancy car wears off, what about a beautiful home or travel etc? Is there life long satisfaction from the achievement (ie not the money but the job well done)?
Is it hard to be motivated when you know that low risk investments could keep you comfortable? Though I'm sure the pleasure of a fancy car wears off, what about a beautiful home or travel etc? Is there life long satisfaction from the achievement (ie not the money but the job well done)?
From what I've seen, getting rich doesn't seem to change most people's level of motivation much. The people who were driven before tend to stay driven.
Getting rich can be a danger to people who aren't very driven. But you don't have to worry about that problem if you're starting a startup. If you're not driven, it's unlikely your startup will make you rich.
Getting rich can be a danger to people who aren't very driven. But you don't have to worry about that problem if you're starting a startup. If you're not driven, it's unlikely your startup will make you rich.
> From what I've seen, getting rich doesn't seem to change most people's level of motivation much.
Didn't you write two Lisp books and start Viaweb before you got rich? Would you say you and your co-founders were just as motivated afterward?
As I understand it, the Zenter people darn near killed themselves leading up to the Google acquisition. Realistically, I wouldn't see them continuing at that breakneck pace afterward.
After the Apple II disk drive, Woz took it easy -- really easy. He doesn't even walk anymore, he Segways!
Taking it easy seems to be the norm. The exceptions to this get mega-rich, like Jobs and Gates. I used to wonder why Gates didn't just take his billions and retire somewhere; reading a biography makes it clear that his life IS Microsoft, including his social circle. It's his whole identity; it's not a job. He didn't do it so he could get rich and do something else; he did it because it's the thing he wanted to do the most anyway! And of course Jobs has always been on a transcendental mission to change humanity via consumer technology.
Didn't you write two Lisp books and start Viaweb before you got rich? Would you say you and your co-founders were just as motivated afterward?
As I understand it, the Zenter people darn near killed themselves leading up to the Google acquisition. Realistically, I wouldn't see them continuing at that breakneck pace afterward.
After the Apple II disk drive, Woz took it easy -- really easy. He doesn't even walk anymore, he Segways!
Taking it easy seems to be the norm. The exceptions to this get mega-rich, like Jobs and Gates. I used to wonder why Gates didn't just take his billions and retire somewhere; reading a biography makes it clear that his life IS Microsoft, including his social circle. It's his whole identity; it's not a job. He didn't do it so he could get rich and do something else; he did it because it's the thing he wanted to do the most anyway! And of course Jobs has always been on a transcendental mission to change humanity via consumer technology.
Yes, I'd say in all three of our cases we're just as motivated as before we got rich.
The Zenters worked super hard more because they had a deadline than because they had no money. I'm just as frazzled before deadlines. I worked 16 hour days for about a month straight to get Hackers & Painters in by the deadline.
The Zenters worked super hard more because they had a deadline than because they had no money. I'm just as frazzled before deadlines. I worked 16 hour days for about a month straight to get Hackers & Painters in by the deadline.
What was the deadline?
Demo Day. Like all YC-funded startups they had to demo to investors after 10 weeks. They worked particularly hard because they had nearly zero written when they arrived in January. The two of them wrote 40k LOC in 10 weeks.
Heck, with KLOC numbers like that, Google was lucky to avoid an all-out bidding war with IBM.
Google launching their presentation product?
> From what I've seen, getting rich doesn't seem to change most people's level of motivation much
That is interesting, because when I lived in Cambridge I worked in a circle of serious lisp/hacker nerds who busted ass to get rich, and then promply retired from doing anything once they cashed out. They are now exactly like what the guy mentions in the first post; they chill on the sofa and read stuff on the internet. Maybe the Harvard grad school hacker scene had a different personality type than the one at MIT.
That is interesting, because when I lived in Cambridge I worked in a circle of serious lisp/hacker nerds who busted ass to get rich, and then promply retired from doing anything once they cashed out. They are now exactly like what the guy mentions in the first post; they chill on the sofa and read stuff on the internet. Maybe the Harvard grad school hacker scene had a different personality type than the one at MIT.
One of the things I like about this attitude is that in some way, it shows that you can make a lot of money even if you are not one of those people who are always after more more more, which is good news for me.
So you are having Fun doing YC?
Yes. There is an almost palpable buzz of energy at YC. I think it may turn out to be one of those hotspots like Parc was.
That would be a good thing.
The only issue I see is that YC seems to be entirely focused on success in the Web 2.0 and software arenas. PARC had a much broader remit.
It appears to me that nobody is doing blue sky research in the computing field. Rather, it has all become a case of building a better mouse trap.
The only issue I see is that YC seems to be entirely focused on success in the Web 2.0 and software arenas. PARC had a much broader remit.
It appears to me that nobody is doing blue sky research in the computing field. Rather, it has all become a case of building a better mouse trap.
I didn't mean we'd literally do the same things as Parc. I meant more that YC might be one of those cases where, in retrospect, people were surprised that so many different things came from one place. The phenomenon isn't limited to technology. The New Yorker in the mid 20th century was another.
"It appears to me that nobody is doing blue sky research in the computing field. Rather, it has all become a case of building a better mouse trap."
You don't hang around the Haskell crowd very much. ;-)
Seriously, blue-sky research is alive and well in the computing field. You just don't hear about it much because blue-sky research, by definition, is useless. And usually highly technical as well. Techcrunch gets far more readers by covering the latest Reddit clone than Lambda: The Ultimate gets by covering the latest advances in dependent typing.
You don't hang around the Haskell crowd very much. ;-)
Seriously, blue-sky research is alive and well in the computing field. You just don't hear about it much because blue-sky research, by definition, is useless. And usually highly technical as well. Techcrunch gets far more readers by covering the latest Reddit clone than Lambda: The Ultimate gets by covering the latest advances in dependent typing.
I follow LtU not always able to comprehend the points made after all I program in a language worse than blub, I kid you not.
But nothing on there has ever come across as radical more of an evolution and sometimes it's just plain ego stroking.
As for Haskell, it's in danger of losing it's chance for wide spread acceptance. The further they take it away from being a good language for multi-processor machines the further away it is from being useful.
With the death of Von Neumann in sight, at last, Haskell is galloping away from it's biggest selling point to the average pgmr. I'm starting to think Erlang might become a mainstream language instead of Haskell. Would sort of prove the need for a language to have a single designer.
The sort of things I'd hoped to see in research are :- Genetic design of machines with 1000+ simple cpus with multi level communication and storage. Proof that the brain works on a quantum level. Cyc tied into machine learning so that it auto updates it's rules. Rules for understanding complexity from simple components.
Basically, I want to see the big problems that are just within grasp tackled.
But nothing on there has ever come across as radical more of an evolution and sometimes it's just plain ego stroking.
As for Haskell, it's in danger of losing it's chance for wide spread acceptance. The further they take it away from being a good language for multi-processor machines the further away it is from being useful.
With the death of Von Neumann in sight, at last, Haskell is galloping away from it's biggest selling point to the average pgmr. I'm starting to think Erlang might become a mainstream language instead of Haskell. Would sort of prove the need for a language to have a single designer.
The sort of things I'd hoped to see in research are :- Genetic design of machines with 1000+ simple cpus with multi level communication and storage. Proof that the brain works on a quantum level. Cyc tied into machine learning so that it auto updates it's rules. Rules for understanding complexity from simple components.
Basically, I want to see the big problems that are just within grasp tackled.
There's no requirement that you have to immediately spend lots of money just because you have it. It's a very normal reaction to not know what to do with a large amount of extra dough. You want to avoid the consumerist trap of retail therapy -- buying things to make you happy, which wears off 5 minutes later. Go ahead and hold on to what you've got and keep on doing what you're doing to make more -- you'll figure out good applications for money over time.
This TED talk says that the key to fulfillment is to grow, so you have more to contribute to others: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5625548517080716077
This TED talk says that the key to fulfillment is to grow, so you have more to contribute to others: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5625548517080716077
"If I had a million dollars I'd do 2 chicks at the same time!"
Seriously, I don't see the issue. Do you have any friends? If you're lacking in the friends department then don't read any further and work on companionship as your number one goal. I find a lot of joy organizing events, outings or exciting weekends for my friends. Make sure the trip has a baseline that everyone can afford and then maybe cover a tab or two while you're out. Ideas don't have to be grandiose they are just excuses to hang out and enjoy life together. I thought of a few things I enjoy and listed them below. Have fun planning these events on your own. Research destinations fully and be prepared to promote your trips so others will join you! Its time consuming (and fun) to figure out the 'best' places to go. Does the outing require that you buy any gear? Research the equipment and then buy it!
Go Camping
Hiking
Deep Sea fishing
Host a wine party / plan a trip to a winery
Trip to another City for the Weekend
Trip to another Country
Get a boat
Attend a music festival (Jazz Fest for example)
Take up a sport like Biking (Road or Mountain)
Hopefully this helps you out somewhat. If you wish to be as happy as me, I'll require $5 to share 'the secret'.
Enjoy :)
Seriously, I don't see the issue. Do you have any friends? If you're lacking in the friends department then don't read any further and work on companionship as your number one goal. I find a lot of joy organizing events, outings or exciting weekends for my friends. Make sure the trip has a baseline that everyone can afford and then maybe cover a tab or two while you're out. Ideas don't have to be grandiose they are just excuses to hang out and enjoy life together. I thought of a few things I enjoy and listed them below. Have fun planning these events on your own. Research destinations fully and be prepared to promote your trips so others will join you! Its time consuming (and fun) to figure out the 'best' places to go. Does the outing require that you buy any gear? Research the equipment and then buy it!
Go Camping
Hiking
Deep Sea fishing
Host a wine party / plan a trip to a winery
Trip to another City for the Weekend
Trip to another Country
Get a boat
Attend a music festival (Jazz Fest for example)
Take up a sport like Biking (Road or Mountain)
Hopefully this helps you out somewhat. If you wish to be as happy as me, I'll require $5 to share 'the secret'.
Enjoy :)
You make software?
If yes, build/help to make open source (and free) software better and more "commercial" looking so open source+free software can be used widely.
Basically be a disruptor.
Make the next Perforce (either support git or make a new one).
Make the next IDE (a complete one like Visual Studio) for Python so that Python can become the main language for enterprise.
One example of disruptor in this area that is starting to rise is Ubuntu.
If yes, build/help to make open source (and free) software better and more "commercial" looking so open source+free software can be used widely.
Basically be a disruptor.
Make the next Perforce (either support git or make a new one).
Make the next IDE (a complete one like Visual Studio) for Python so that Python can become the main language for enterprise.
One example of disruptor in this area that is starting to rise is Ubuntu.
Invest some and put the rest to good use to make sure you contribute to making the world a better place: research to find cures, charity to help those in need, or whatever good cause you believe in.
I'm a little bit shocked that after 53 comments only one person mentioned philanthropy (and he was shot down in the first reply). Just because picking the right charities and projects is not "easy" does not mean it's not worth doing. Jeez people.
I for one don't like the idea that the only way to "give something back" is to do philanthropy. Any gain in happiness and productivity is a good thing. If you have had success, continuing to be successful probably means giving people both. Keep working.
An example of comparative advantage: it doesn't make sense for a $500/hr lawyer to do pro-bono work for the poor. It would make more sense to work for that hour and use the income to fund 10 $50/hr lawyers. The benefit would be much higher for those in need.
So my point is that charity isn't necessarily the best way to give back to society.
An example of comparative advantage: it doesn't make sense for a $500/hr lawyer to do pro-bono work for the poor. It would make more sense to work for that hour and use the income to fund 10 $50/hr lawyers. The benefit would be much higher for those in need.
So my point is that charity isn't necessarily the best way to give back to society.
So you're essentially suggesting deferred philanthropy. I totally agree with that philosophy. This is why I'm also doing a startup and not joining the peace corp. But, once you've "made it" and have more money than you know what to do with (the question at hand), I think it's reasonable to consider Philantropy and not just "fun" stuff.
It's harder than it sounds. Charity often harms more than it helps. For example the donated used clothing from Europe/US completely destroyed a starting textile industry in Africa.
You could start with the basics, helping people get water. I can't think of an investment with a better human-return than building a well for a community that needs it.
What can you do with freedom?
I agree with this sentiment. In my opinion, the best thing money can buy is freedom. As such, the first and foremost thing you want to do is protect this freedom. That is, make sure your money level isn't going to go below certain thresholds that impact your freedom. Of course, this involves investing, diversification, insurance, not spending too much, etc.
After that, it really is not what can you do with freedom, but what do you want to do with your freedom? For me, at least at the moment, I like to work on Internet startup ideas and help people (as best I can) who are doing the same. For you, maybe it is something different, perhaps along the lines of some of the other comments.
Finally, I think your situation just lets you slow down a bit. That is not to say you have to have less motivation, but just that you don't have to run at a million miles an hour all the time and hit potential burn out periods. You now have the opportunity to take things at a comfortable pace. And that can be a good thing for innovation because you can read more disparate things, try different projects, and even work on may projects at the same time.
After that, it really is not what can you do with freedom, but what do you want to do with your freedom? For me, at least at the moment, I like to work on Internet startup ideas and help people (as best I can) who are doing the same. For you, maybe it is something different, perhaps along the lines of some of the other comments.
Finally, I think your situation just lets you slow down a bit. That is not to say you have to have less motivation, but just that you don't have to run at a million miles an hour all the time and hit potential burn out periods. You now have the opportunity to take things at a comfortable pace. And that can be a good thing for innovation because you can read more disparate things, try different projects, and even work on may projects at the same time.
You know what I would do if I had a million dollars? I would invest half of it in low risk mutual funds and then take the other half over to my friend Asadulah who works in securities...
Figure out what you want to have, do and be. The have part is easy, most people can work that out on their own. What do you want to do? Do you want to learn something new (foreign language, to tango, a new programming language, etc)? Do you want to do something physical (run a marathon, achieve weight lifting goals, swim the English channel,etc). Do you want to be a philanthropist? Do you want to run a non-profit organization? Figure out 3-5 things you want to do.
Be is harder IMO. Do you want to be a husband? father? grand father (you need help on this one obvious)? Do you want to a champion whatever? These are the questions I would ask myself. With the answers, you can start taking concrete steps.
Be is harder IMO. Do you want to be a husband? father? grand father (you need help on this one obvious)? Do you want to a champion whatever? These are the questions I would ask myself. With the answers, you can start taking concrete steps.
Purchase an your own personal airplane and realize just how freaking cool it is that a trip from wherever you are to 3 states away is just 3 hours away, no airport hassles & wait times included. It makes the world feel a lot more closer. All of a sudden, a trip to LA from Seattle is just like a trip from LA to Fresno. Except your flying, in an airplane , inside a 180 degree view angle canopy.
Purchase time with your money in hiring other people to do the chores in your work & life.
(This may not apply for you) Purchasing real estate close to your work, reducing commute times to 10 minutes from maybe the hour or two you have already.
Purchase time with your money in hiring other people to do the chores in your work & life.
(This may not apply for you) Purchasing real estate close to your work, reducing commute times to 10 minutes from maybe the hour or two you have already.
With enough money, you could stage a coup and take over Equatorial Guinea. It's ripe for the takeover, just take care not to fuck it up like Margaret Thatcher's son did.
If you are asking for things to do,then it is clear that you are now unchallenged by your company. By some land near the city and staret building a house. I personaly like prefabs that you can put together.Then stuff that bad boy with books from the earliest centuries to the latest "the world is flat". Read about topics other than "javascript". Subscribe to newspapers. I like FT,NYT,WSJ,USAtoday and some magazines like DWELL.
A very comfortable yearly income is $100K-$200K. Immediately put the necessary base in an interest bearing account (~5%) to earn your comfy yearly income off the interest. $200K/0.05 = $4M.
Then you'd really never need to work again, and you can focus on making interesting things.
There is plenty of life automation that you can do. Laundry, grocery delivery, maid services, restaurants, financial planner.
You can easily spend $1M on travel for months, building a dream house, etc.
Then you'd really never need to work again, and you can focus on making interesting things.
There is plenty of life automation that you can do. Laundry, grocery delivery, maid services, restaurants, financial planner.
You can easily spend $1M on travel for months, building a dream house, etc.
That's not going to work in the USA because inflation is a lot more than 5%.
I'd go for a foreign stock index fund.
I'd go for a foreign stock index fund.
You have done those things?
HA!
I don't have $4M to put in the bank. But I do have a comfortable income. My goal would be to work on interesting problems without needing a paycheck.
Things like financial planners, grocery delivery, and cleaning services are all excellent value for the amount of time they save.
I don't have $4M to put in the bank. But I do have a comfortable income. My goal would be to work on interesting problems without needing a paycheck.
Things like financial planners, grocery delivery, and cleaning services are all excellent value for the amount of time they save.
Money is overrated. If you aren't happy without it, you won't be happy with it. Just imo.
There is something to that, but for most people the curve of happiness to money is not simply flat. For most there are sharp steps at have-enough-to-eat and don't-have-to-work-anymore, among others.
There was an excellent article in New York Times on the subject:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&re...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&re...
Invest in foreign assets, you don't want all of your wealth to be in US dollars.
Makes perfect sense now.With dollar constantly losing against Euro and Indian Rupees , its best to invest in politically inert geographical locations .(I would love to invest in South India, but the government regulations are too much )
Are you talking about using your money to grow your business, grow your money, or grow your happiness?
Grow my Happiness.
That does not exclude the other 2 points. In fact, currently most of my fun comes from my business.
That does not exclude the other 2 points. In fact, currently most of my fun comes from my business.
It says "To view the flash version of this website you must have Macromedia Flash Player 8.0 installed." And thats all there is on the screen.
I translate that to "We dont know what Javascript is, probably something that has to do with HTML which probably is some weird programming language or something."
I dont think I will let these guys take my ass to the moon :-)
I translate that to "We dont know what Javascript is, probably something that has to do with HTML which probably is some weird programming language or something."
I dont think I will let these guys take my ass to the moon :-)
If they can achieve 100 suborbital flights without an accident, would you go then?
No, because having done something 100 times without failure is not a proof of a low failure-rate.
Say your failure rate is 1%. Then the chance that you get away without failure in 100 tries is 37%. (0.99^100).
Say your failure rate is 1%. Then the chance that you get away without failure in 100 tries is 37%. (0.99^100).
If your failure rate is 5%, then the chance that you get away without failure in 100 tries is 5.9%.
0.59%
So what sort of failure rate are you looking for? Everyone wants to go into space, no?
Well, some of us want to emigrate to space, but taking a several hour ride and coming right back isn't nearly so interesting. :)
Not sure if I want to.
Why?
Secure your future. And do whatever you want. If you want nothing, spend some time thinking. :)
Ok, I spent time thinking.
I want plenty of Girls.
I want plenty of Girls.
Converting Money into Girls, if your not willing to engage professionals, is not as easy as you'd imagine. Or rather, it is about as hard as you'd imagine. Money doesn't make that big a difference.
Investing in some salsa/merengue lessons is a pretty good way to go. It worked well for me in that it's a very non-geeky thing that lots of girls like. It's also a fun environment - in the right places, you can dance with lots of people without it being a Big Deal asking someone to dance.
No way. It may not be as easy as people make it seem, but if you take care of yourself, and dress really well (I'm talking Armani, etc) there is no way it's not easier. Personality is still a factor, but money gets you in the door.
I think this subject is ripe for a reality tv series.
People (men and women) would love to see awkward rich guys falling on their face while trying to pick up women.
People (men and women) would love to see awkward rich guys falling on their face while trying to pick up women.
Ok, Im curious. Tell me about your experiences.
Buy a Ferrari F430! Actually I'd probably invest in another business first if I had the money. Donating to charities is also a good call, or perhaps helping out your local (young) entrepreneurs who are in need of some financial support.
Don't forget the Ferrari though. ;)
Don't forget the Ferrari though. ;)
Usually the problem is the other way around. You have an interesting scenario :). My suggestions:
Start another.
or
Spend a year in Argentina reading and building a boat. This is my plan upon retiring (2.5 years to go!)
Start another.
or
Spend a year in Argentina reading and building a boat. This is my plan upon retiring (2.5 years to go!)
I think you should secure your future and that of your future family. So invest the money. You can use some of it to pursue or fund projects that you like.
Mentor other startups. I have been actively seeking a personal mentor and guidance developing my startup.
Apparently you're not married?:-)
No, thank God !!!
HA! Long term, children make people more happy than almost anything else.
Give me that problem. :)
What would you do then?
Sorry, I was just being silly. For me money means mainly time. In your situation, where most of your time goes to your business anyway, I think I'd only 'outsource' time consuming tasks that I don't enjoy doing (e.g., cleaning, laundry) so I can do more of what I enjoy (e.g., reading).
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Depending on how much you have, why not invest in start ups? (No, I don't mean me.)
Have fun!! Invest in yourself. Go back to school and major in something that you were slightly curious about but never got around to learning -- I'm sure there'll be a startup idea buried there somewhere...
I dont have the time. I run a company.
And besides that... school??? Sitting on my ass, listening to someone sounds not like a lot of fun to me.
And besides that... school??? Sitting on my ass, listening to someone sounds not like a lot of fun to me.
I think you should be investing in having more time. Unless your company is what you want to be doing constantly, in which case you should invest all of your money in your company, so your company can do exactly what you want and doesn't have to take crap from anyone.
Go somewhere tropical. And hire someone to do your laundry.
I run a successful startup. I dont make a fortune, but all of a sudden I have a lot more money then ever before. And guess what - I have not clue what to do with it.
Today, I read this:
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/27/DIME.TMP
And there is a sentence: "The person who sold the dime is Oakland businessman Daniel Rosenthal, who was unavailable for comment, perhaps because a person newly in possession of $1.9 million has got better things to do than answer a lot of questions."
I really would like to know: What are these "better things"?
What are those better things I could do then chillin on my sofa and reading ycombinator and stuff?