Instagram’s founder, a marketer who learned to code at night(thenextweb.com)
thenextweb.com
Instagram’s founder, a marketer who learned to code at night
http://thenextweb.com/2012/04/10/instagrams-ceo-had-no-formal-programming-training-hes-a-marketer-who-learned-to-code-by-night/
87 comments
This just goes to show that the most critical ingredient to success is determination and focus, not any specific training.
If you are committed to a goal, picking up any specific hands-on skills (coding included) is just the matter of sticking to it.
Something to keep in mind when hiring.
If you are committed to a goal, picking up any specific hands-on skills (coding included) is just the matter of sticking to it.
Something to keep in mind when hiring.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On, has solved and will always solve the problems of the human race."
Calvin Coolidge
"If you want to set off and go develop some grand new thing, you don't need millions of dollars of capitalization. You need enough pizza and Diet Coke to stick in your refrigerator, a cheap PC to work on and the dedication to go through with it."
John Carmack
Calvin Coolidge
"If you want to set off and go develop some grand new thing, you don't need millions of dollars of capitalization. You need enough pizza and Diet Coke to stick in your refrigerator, a cheap PC to work on and the dedication to go through with it."
John Carmack
I'm finding it challenging to find indications of "persistence." He did some coding at night for what sounds like a few months (this is the baseline effort for 99% of the people who live in Silicon Valley). Then he went to a party, where he was handed $500k.
Is it still true? can you actually do much nowdays (in that scale) on a cheap PC? it seems like heavy machines/cloud access is crucial
You can serve insane amounts of users on a single $200 a month server from Softlayer (or EC2). It's not uncommon for many types of businesses (that charge real money) to do $250k-$1m in revenue a year per server as powerful as that.
Some types of free services that go out of their way to build traffic at the expense of revenue, or computation intensive services like real time audio/video may be exceptions to that rule.
Some anecdotal evidence - I ran a cacheless Django site that more than made the server costs back monthly via a single Adsense unit, in the gaming sector where eCPMs are rubbish, and the files you serve are huge, and the server was never at any point at more than 20% utilisation.
By and large, the cloud has lowered the barriers to entry. Unless you're running Justin.tv, server costs are down in the noise. Getting users is the hard part; serving them pages is not.
Some types of free services that go out of their way to build traffic at the expense of revenue, or computation intensive services like real time audio/video may be exceptions to that rule.
Some anecdotal evidence - I ran a cacheless Django site that more than made the server costs back monthly via a single Adsense unit, in the gaming sector where eCPMs are rubbish, and the files you serve are huge, and the server was never at any point at more than 20% utilisation.
By and large, the cloud has lowered the barriers to entry. Unless you're running Justin.tv, server costs are down in the noise. Getting users is the hard part; serving them pages is not.
A cheap PC today is way more powerful than PCs of just a couple years ago. Server rooms have shrunk not just because of the cloud, but because the same amount of work can get done with less machine.
John Carmacks quote becomes more pertinent as time goes on because computing power is only becoming cheaper. And to directly address your point, the common person now has access to more computing power than ever before at a cost lower than ever in history because of the cloud.
If anything the barriers to entry continue to drop leaving only our lack of persistence as what stands between us and success.
John Carmacks quote becomes more pertinent as time goes on because computing power is only becoming cheaper. And to directly address your point, the common person now has access to more computing power than ever before at a cost lower than ever in history because of the cloud.
If anything the barriers to entry continue to drop leaving only our lack of persistence as what stands between us and success.
>Server rooms have shrunk not just because of the cloud, but because the same amount of work can get done with less machine.
The demand for servers and compute power has increased because of the cloud. Just because server rooms have turned into datacenters does not mean they "shrunk", quite the opposite.
The demand for servers and compute power has increased because of the cloud. Just because server rooms have turned into datacenters does not mean they "shrunk", quite the opposite.
When I started at my previous company we had a server room that was full of computers. When I left we had consolidated to a single rack, and nothing had been moved to the cloud. While the companies demand for compute power went up during the time I worked there, the compute power available in a single machine went up faster than the demand.
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You've been spoiled.
Cheap PCs in your basement, or cheap VPS machines are perfectly acceptable for starting out. Also, if you're conscious about performance and have good bandwidth, you can serve insane amounts of traffic from a single server.
Cheap PCs in your basement, or cheap VPS machines are perfectly acceptable for starting out. Also, if you're conscious about performance and have good bandwidth, you can serve insane amounts of traffic from a single server.
In US Costco's, where i mostly buy non-apple they mostly stock HP, Toshiba and Dell laptops. 6G RAM, duo core I5 is typically $600-700.
Cloudwise EC2 is trending down, Heroku starts free with reasonable limits, and VPS with 500M memory at Linode is $20/mon.
http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2012/03/05/new-low...
Cloudwise EC2 is trending down, Heroku starts free with reasonable limits, and VPS with 500M memory at Linode is $20/mon.
http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2012/03/05/new-low...
Success is not reducible to some key rules.
His first prototype idea got $500k seed from Baseline and AH. Thats after putting together a basic HTML5 Game mashup of foursquare and mafia wars.
I could interpret the article to say that being determined and focused, while being ready for opportunities, are the critical ingredients to success.
Saying that determination and focus are key ingredients - is just taking an event and looking at it through your own personal lens.
Heck, you could have been the hardest worker, and a genius, but if your name was Nikola Tesla your end result would still be penury.
I could interpret the article to say that being determined and focused, while being ready for opportunities, are the critical ingredients to success.
Saying that determination and focus are key ingredients - is just taking an event and looking at it through your own personal lens.
Heck, you could have been the hardest worker, and a genius, but if your name was Nikola Tesla your end result would still be penury.
if your name was Nikola Tesla your end result would still be penury
If you had been Tesla, your "end result" would be that you were Tesla.
If you had been Tesla, your "end result" would be that you were Tesla.
My take away was that he had connections that let him pursue his ideas more than just as a weekend project.
He just went to a party. He didn't have rolodex of investors or anything.
He went to a party where Andreessen Horowitz happened to also be attending. I'm assuming he didn't crash this party. I didn't say he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, just that he was in a position where his hard work was likely to be recognized.
Come out to SV and hustle. It's not that hard to attend a party with a VC firm. It's their job to be approachable.
Being at that party is precisely what luck is all about.
?? what does him going to the party knowing that Horowitz will be there has to do with luck??
Luck is commonly referred to as being ready when an opportunity presents itself.
Many people here on HN mistake it for winning the lottery. Almost as if that is the only reason you can and did succeed.
And that kind of stuff does happen, just look at people who win the lottery :) But even in that simple example those people still had to play.
Luck, or what appears to be luck, generally happens to people who are constantly prepared to accept an opportunity when it presents itself. In fact this leads to another popular saying that opportunity is everywhere. The problem is that it is often dressed in overalls and looks like work[1].
[1] Very liberal paraphrase of Edisons quote.
Luck, or what appears to be luck, generally happens to people who are constantly prepared to accept an opportunity when it presents itself. In fact this leads to another popular saying that opportunity is everywhere. The problem is that it is often dressed in overalls and looks like work[1].
[1] Very liberal paraphrase of Edisons quote.
"And that kind of stuff does happen, just look at people who win the lottery :)"
Yes, but creating a business isn't as easy as buying a ticket. That's my point. There is more skill than luck involved in any business success.
Yes, but creating a business isn't as easy as buying a ticket. That's my point. There is more skill than luck involved in any business success.
The analogy with playing the lottery wasn't about creating a business, it was about going to the party.
never heard this one. I like Wiki take: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luck
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He also went to Stanford.
This is a huge deal. Not for the quality of the education (although there's that too) but also for the branding and network it gives you access to.
Read the history of Hollywood. Not a single person who formed the major studios -- Cohn, Mayer, Goldwyn, etc -- ever created a movie themselves.
On the other hand, there are plenty of people with determination and focus who aren't successful in the Instagram sense of walking away with $100M+ after 2 years of work.
True, like the guys at Rovio. It took years before they had success.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovio_Entertainment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovio_Entertainment
still, you can be successful without making millions.
Looking at how society as a whole generally/broadly defines "success", yes, there are a few cases were not making millions or more is still considered [extremely] successful, but more often than not, "success" at the level of people like the founders of Instagram usually means making bank.
I am in no way agreeing or disagreeing with this notion of "success", just stating how I think society in general broadly feels.
I am in no way agreeing or disagreeing with this notion of "success", just stating how I think society in general broadly feels.
Heck the OP has such a vague definition of success (it changes from lines 1 to lines 3) that its basically discussion bait/fluff.
Line 1 basically refers to stuff like learning code, while line 2 seems to allude to success in terms of making bank.
Line 1 basically refers to stuff like learning code, while line 2 seems to allude to success in terms of making bank.
depends on your definition of success
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Yes, the founders benefit a lot from keeping their identity small. Their identity should not be as a CEO, CTO, programmer, marketer, non-technical, etc. A founder need to have a flexible identity and learn as needed.
However, the flip side of the coin is that it's a great weakness if you don't know what you don't know. It's only when you know you don't know that you can find someone to fill in for that or expand your skills. Because in the end it's what you do that counts.
However, the flip side of the coin is that it's a great weakness if you don't know what you don't know. It's only when you know you don't know that you can find someone to fill in for that or expand your skills. Because in the end it's what you do that counts.
Absolutely.Determination , hard work and commitment.This is what college taught, it doesn't matter how smart you are , if you don't work hard . It will all go waste.
unfortunately its only half true. i know bunch of people that were lazy like a beach bum and got rich whether because of work of other people or because of luck.
the sad truth is, that there are no set in stone rules how to become successful. perhaps its good, because otherwise if everyone would get successful, nobody would be successful.
think it this way: imagine solid set of rules how to hit jackpot in lotto. if everyone would read those rules and applied, then everyone would win... a dollar.
yes, hard work is important. yes, who you know is important. yes, idea and execution is important. yes, luck and timing is important too. but deliberating that you cant success without this or that is a pure waste of time.
the sad truth is, that there are no set in stone rules how to become successful. perhaps its good, because otherwise if everyone would get successful, nobody would be successful.
think it this way: imagine solid set of rules how to hit jackpot in lotto. if everyone would read those rules and applied, then everyone would win... a dollar.
yes, hard work is important. yes, who you know is important. yes, idea and execution is important. yes, luck and timing is important too. but deliberating that you cant success without this or that is a pure waste of time.
Yup. Since you cannot (as far as I know) influence luck or good fortune, your only option if you want to succeed is to hedge your bets and make as great an intelligent effort as possible. I'm still struggling with the 'intelligent' part...
I truly believe that talent helps but it doesn't take you as far as determination, focus, passion and ambition. If you want it badly enough you will make it.
> If you want it badly enough you will make it.
That's nice to think. Hell, I wish I had your tenacious optimisim, but you'd have to be willfully avoiding reality to truly believe this is always the case. Sadly, it just is not.
That's nice to think. Hell, I wish I had your tenacious optimisim, but you'd have to be willfully avoiding reality to truly believe this is always the case. Sadly, it just is not.
I'll bet that optimism is another trait shared by those who actually make it. ;)
Well people like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates either directly or indirectly disagree with your assessment. At first I thought you were simply being wide-eyed optimistic. However, now it actually seems insulting that you just seem to hand wave around and assume the traits people have who "make it".
don't take me wrong here. sometimes I tend to hyperbolize my own statements to cross sell what I believe in. you're right.
My point is, I try to avoid negativity all around (thoughts, people, environments, etc...) in order to achieve my own goals. That as been working for me so far. I haven't "make it" yet, but I'll do someday. What do you think about that?
I should read more about Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.
I should read more about Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.
Intelligence and an understanding of the market helps out a lot, too. You can be determined and focused and making something, and it could not be that successful (assuming success in making a lot of money is your goal)
Not entirely true though. He's been coding for a long time. He studied management science and engineering. It's not as if he wasn't technical before he started with instagram.
I wouldn't call tinkering with Pascal and C while in High School necessarily a long time. He had one CS class at Stanford, in which he didn't really excel (source: his Quora answers compiled here http://www.forbes.com/sites/limyunghui/2012/04/09/inspiring-... and foundation podcast by Kevin Rose).
>>>He's been coding for a long time.
I'm confused now. The article says he began in 2010, just two years ago. Absolutely not true at all?
I'm confused now. The article says he began in 2010, just two years ago. Absolutely not true at all?
Does the degree title refer to the "science and engineering of management" or "management, science and engineering" or "engineering and the science of management"? My limited reading indicates the first, but can anyone confirm?
Management Science is a subdiscipline of management. Also known as Operations Research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research
Today, nearly everyone has been coding for a long time. Everyone learns the basics in school. At college or university many will have a lot of further contact with many computer science concepts. It’s a lot like math, really: everyone knows the basics (or has at least heard them once and promptly forgotten them), but that doesn’t make everyone a mathatician.
(My dad, a construction engineer, learnt programming at college in the freaking late 70s. He never needed it during his long and successful career as a construction engineer, though, and has forgotten all about it. Today, anyone who studies anything to do with social sciences – for example – needs to have some coding skills if they want to do effective statistical analysis.)
There is a difference between that and building your own app.
(My dad, a construction engineer, learnt programming at college in the freaking late 70s. He never needed it during his long and successful career as a construction engineer, though, and has forgotten all about it. Today, anyone who studies anything to do with social sciences – for example – needs to have some coding skills if they want to do effective statistical analysis.)
There is a difference between that and building your own app.
I'm sorry but as a graduate trained social scientist (psychologist), this is simply not true (for the social sciences at least).
I do know how to program (R mostly, some python and java) but I am an extreme outlier with my field. In fact, people are ridiculously impressed at my use of awk and regex to extract relevant articles from a CSV file.
I would agree that everyone who studies the social sciences should have some familiarity with coding, but SPSS refutes your claim that it is a necessity. In addition, I had never coded a line before the age of 28 (I'm almost 31 now).
I do know how to program (R mostly, some python and java) but I am an extreme outlier with my field. In fact, people are ridiculously impressed at my use of awk and regex to extract relevant articles from a CSV file.
I would agree that everyone who studies the social sciences should have some familiarity with coding, but SPSS refutes your claim that it is a necessity. In addition, I had never coded a line before the age of 28 (I'm almost 31 now).
I'm 30 and I remember being taught the basics (in BASIC, no less) of programming in elementary school. My father talks about programming on punch cards when he was in high school. We both went to the same small rural schools, not even big city institutions.
Given that, I'm with the parent. It does seem kind of amazing that virtually anyone in the workforce today in North America didn't have at least some programming training. Whether they still remember is another matter, but I guess everyone comes from a different background.
Given that, I'm with the parent. It does seem kind of amazing that virtually anyone in the workforce today in North America didn't have at least some programming training. Whether they still remember is another matter, but I guess everyone comes from a different background.
Hm, ok, then I guess my university is the outlier here. I do agree, though, that coding skills are essential for effective statistical analysis and that it should be part of every social scientists' education.
> Today, anyone who studies anything to do with social
> sciences – for example – needs to have some coding skills
> if they want to do effective statistical analysis.
That may be enough to get you through - realistically - but students are usually taught more. Data manipulation is frequently needed and doing that by clicking buttons is seriously no fun. Again: I was talking about what students are taught, not so much what they actually need to pass. I guess technically you don't even have to know how correlation coefficients are calculated (as in: have an intuitive understanding why they are calculated the way they are calculated), clicking a button in SPSS is all you need. But students are taught how correlation coefficiencts work in detail.
"Everyone learns the basics in school"
i don't know about this...i'd say that the majority of college graduates have had no programming experience, not even the basics. programming wasn't taught in any of my schools growing up
i don't know about this...i'd say that the majority of college graduates have had no programming experience, not even the basics. programming wasn't taught in any of my schools growing up
I find the story misleading .... it is one thing to build a prototype and another thing to create an app to support millions of people and their pictures.. on top of that he has great connection and a great environment .... you must check the big picture and not just take one element to create that cinderella story.... by the way his co founder is a real CS genius .... let's face it ...it is easy to raise money right now in this crazy environment...I don't take away his hard work and talent but just check the picture too....
It is good to know that there are GOOD marketers-turned-programmers in the world. I work with someone who bills himself as a programmer, in fact was hired to be "senior developer." This "senior developer" isn't. Instead, he's a marketer and bullshitter who lied his way into his position. He's not coded a single thing in the 8 months of his employ. Instead he has had his position changed to "marketing director" because "that's his niche."
I wonder what impact being around world-class engineers are Google had on Systrom's path.
I wonder what impact being around world-class engineers are Google had on Systrom's path.
Regardless of how experienced he was technically, think this is another case, among many, that demonstrate just how important it is to have sharp marketing instincts.
Behind every internet hit was a lot of clever marketing and positioning that really made it (facebook, zynga, groupon, mint, plentyoffish, hotornot, the list goes on).
Behind every internet hit was a lot of clever marketing and positioning that really made it (facebook, zynga, groupon, mint, plentyoffish, hotornot, the list goes on).
Fair play to him. He's achieved to what many here aspire. I cannot begrudge him the success because he's NOT a developer.
If he was a developer and not a marketer, would the community be judging or discussing him in the same way?
If he was a developer and not a marketer, would the community be judging or discussing him in the same way?
So I'm curious...what programming language did he learn and use for instagram?
The way I parse it is he built something in html5, and showed it at a party.
Owen, this is clearly a situation in which your insight is more valuable than most other people's. Care to elaborate on the Digg parallels?
I don't really want to draw parallels, because I don't know anyone at Instagram, but this really feels like a standard Silicon Valley puff piece to make the newly wealthy insiderish person look like a renaissance man. I'm going to guess that along with the $500k came the admonition to hire real engineers stat.
Oh yes...got that. I was just curious what that led to using at instagram. Anyone know what they use?
I would like to believe that his skill at coding had less to do with it versus the connections he had and the people he surrounded himself with.
As quite a few people have pointed out here going to Stanford in any capacity and graduating gives you a huge leg up in terms of the potential Alumni you can now reach out to.
Right place/Right Time/Right Product is what this boils down to. I am also assuming that he did not write most of what is the current Instagram code. Funny that no one mentions that Mike Krieger as his Cofounder in addition to the other engineers on the team.
As quite a few people have pointed out here going to Stanford in any capacity and graduating gives you a huge leg up in terms of the potential Alumni you can now reach out to.
Right place/Right Time/Right Product is what this boils down to. I am also assuming that he did not write most of what is the current Instagram code. Funny that no one mentions that Mike Krieger as his Cofounder in addition to the other engineers on the team.
I am going to reply to my own comment and also note that their first engineering hire, Shayne Sweeney also didn't go to college for programming.
What's so hard to believe about that? Are there any programmers who aren't self taught these days . . .
Tons. Most.
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I thought that most tech entrepreneurs have learned to code by themselves.
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Is that true about Codeacademy?
another big dollar sign, another over'night' myth.
From the article:
Unlike Mark Zuckerberg, the man responsible for acquiring the popular photo sharing app for $1 billion, Systrom received no formal engineering training.
From Systrom's bio on Instagram:
Kevin graduated from Stanford University in 2006 with a BS in Management Science & Engineering—he got his first taste of the startup world when he was an intern at Odeo that later became Twitter. He spent two years at Google—the first of which was working on Gmail, Google Reader, and other products...
Gotta love the spin.
Unlike Mark Zuckerberg, the man responsible for acquiring the popular photo sharing app for $1 billion, Systrom received no formal engineering training.
From Systrom's bio on Instagram:
Kevin graduated from Stanford University in 2006 with a BS in Management Science & Engineering—he got his first taste of the startup world when he was an intern at Odeo that later became Twitter. He spent two years at Google—the first of which was working on Gmail, Google Reader, and other products...
Gotta love the spin.
I believe he was working as a Product Marketing Manager on Gmail and Google Reader, not an engineer.
He was definitely a PMM. Started as an Associate PMM.
Spin aside. His story would be really inspiring for folks i have met who think that for one to learn how to program, they need to go to Uni and apply for a cs degree which is bullshit.
The problem is that a lot of HR departments won't consider people without degrees. A Stanford degree opens a lot of doors.
This is one of the reasons I have a lot of hope in online education. When it becomes mainstream, HR departments won't be able to ignore it.
This is one of the reasons I have a lot of hope in online education. When it becomes mainstream, HR departments won't be able to ignore it.
>>>The problem is that a lot of HR departments won't consider people without degrees.
Aren't people who are motivated to teach themselves coding the very kind of people who would want to avoid dealing with Suit HR departments? Wouldn't they be more interested in working at a smaller firm, especially a startup, if they had to work for someone else at all?
Aren't people who are motivated to teach themselves coding the very kind of people who would want to avoid dealing with Suit HR departments? Wouldn't they be more interested in working at a smaller firm, especially a startup, if they had to work for someone else at all?
Sure, but the fewer alternatives you have available to you the less control you have over your market rate. Ideally you'd like to be eminently qualified and command a bigco salary at a strong small firm.
It is bullshit, I'm currently learning to program by following the excellent CS106A paper at Stanford, free on iTunesU. In the current online climate you can learn to code without trying to figure out how to pay a massive student loan back when you're done.
What bugged me about the spin was the comment about Systrom receiving no formal training, unlike Zuck. Zuck built Facebook with next none of the "formal training" he was supposedly getting during his short stint at Harvard. Systrom actually graduated and then went on to be exposed to some pretty big name companies in the tech world.
Good on him though, and yes, inspiring stuff.
What bugged me about the spin was the comment about Systrom receiving no formal training, unlike Zuck. Zuck built Facebook with next none of the "formal training" he was supposedly getting during his short stint at Harvard. Systrom actually graduated and then went on to be exposed to some pretty big name companies in the tech world.
Good on him though, and yes, inspiring stuff.
I'm curious about this. Can you basically get a Stanford education via iTunes now? And how would you convince people that you actually had one? [typo edit]
"Depends what you mean by coding. I've been programming here and there since I was in middle school. In high school I was excused from my foreign language requirement so I could take more computer science classes. The first real class I took was in Pascal, and then later in c++. Independently I started playing with MySQL and PHP, but never did anything significant.
My freshman year at Stanford I took CS106X which was the first year's worth of CS in 1 quarter (it's usually two). I wouldn't say I did so well... I looked around and saw so many fantastically smart folks in that class and decided I was better off majoring in something like business. Looking back I wish I had stuck with it. It turns out that no undergrad class prepares you to start a startup -- you learn most of it as you do it."
Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/meet-kevin-systrom-a-qa-the-2...