Life Changing Books on Sex and Relationships
51 comments
Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment by Levine and Heller [0] - this was really useful for understanding relationships and how I and others respond to relationships, love, work, etc. was rather eye opening to me.
Boundaries by Henry Cloud [1] - this seems like a basic concept and I thought I knew about this but this book helped. I expect there are others so reading one or two good ones will probably do, but this is the one I read.
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl [2] - this is not about sex or relationships but about the meaning of life and why. It helped me think about how others view life and while initially I thought this was about professional and spiritual and intellectual purpose, I realized it’s also about finding and connecting with others and that helped me think about interacting with people on a romantic level rather than just with large groups or organizations. It’s a great book overall and probably fits into any person’s mind who is trying to figure out who they are and where they are in the world and where they want to be.
I’m middle aged and ended a decades long relationship a few years ago, so these books are helpful in updating and improving a worldview for sex and relationships.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/944267
[2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069
Boundaries by Henry Cloud [1] - this seems like a basic concept and I thought I knew about this but this book helped. I expect there are others so reading one or two good ones will probably do, but this is the one I read.
Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl [2] - this is not about sex or relationships but about the meaning of life and why. It helped me think about how others view life and while initially I thought this was about professional and spiritual and intellectual purpose, I realized it’s also about finding and connecting with others and that helped me think about interacting with people on a romantic level rather than just with large groups or organizations. It’s a great book overall and probably fits into any person’s mind who is trying to figure out who they are and where they are in the world and where they want to be.
I’m middle aged and ended a decades long relationship a few years ago, so these books are helpful in updating and improving a worldview for sex and relationships.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9547888
[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/944267
[2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4069
Mating in captivity by Esther Perel. It touches on how comfort and safety in a relationship can pose a challenge on sexual desire and excitement as an increase in one can decrease the other. It provides realizations and examples that make you think and see your relationship in a different way. It also touches on how societal norms and views can conflict with sexual desires and limit us in expressing ourselves
Esther Perel is amazing, but alas this book didn't solve the problems I hoped it would
While I cannot know which problems you are referring to, I'm afraid problems of this nature are not resolved just by reading a book :)
Cannot speak for your situation, but I did find the book not so actionable. Was hoping for more tools or guidance
The 'Life Changing Books' thread from Dec 2021:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29605394
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29605394
Tannen's "You Just Don't Understand".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_Just_Don%27t_Understand
Key idea in the book is that a lot of argument and disagreement arises from mismatched social attitudes/communication between men & women, similar to how cross-cultural assumptions can cause offense.
Presents a model that (typically) men socialise with a focus more on competition, independence, and status, whereas (typically) woman socialise with a focus on cooperation, inter-dependence, and intimacy.
Key idea in the book is that a lot of argument and disagreement arises from mismatched social attitudes/communication between men & women, similar to how cross-cultural assumptions can cause offense.
Presents a model that (typically) men socialise with a focus more on competition, independence, and status, whereas (typically) woman socialise with a focus on cooperation, inter-dependence, and intimacy.
This is one of the big 5 personality traits (agreeableness).
I found that these cover most everything and the combinations are the most interesting and useful.
As I get older, I find that people closer to the middle across these traits are the ones I enjoy being around.
This helps me know what areas I can work on to be a more pleasant human being :)
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/docs/230/2014/25Soldz.pdf
I found that these cover most everything and the combinations are the most interesting and useful.
As I get older, I find that people closer to the middle across these traits are the ones I enjoy being around.
This helps me know what areas I can work on to be a more pleasant human being :)
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/docs/230/2014/25Soldz.pdf
Polysecure: Attachment, Trauma and Consensual Nonmonogamy by Jessica Fern.
Can agree this one is fantastic, and you don’t need to be polyamorous or in a poly relationship to get something out of it. I would recommend it for anyone who wants to be more secure in non-amorous relationships as well, as the stuff in here could easily be applied to those situations.
You could probably find other books on attachment theory, but the application of those ideas in a book that is based on the individual and how to navigate your own attachment issues in the midst of multiple relationships is great.
You could probably find other books on attachment theory, but the application of those ideas in a book that is based on the individual and how to navigate your own attachment issues in the midst of multiple relationships is great.
the way of superior man by david deida - this is a traditional take between the masculine and feminine.
the alabaster girl by zan perrion - this is an in depth exploration of social dynamics in relationships.
the alabaster girl by zan perrion - this is an in depth exploration of social dynamics in relationships.
«Hot women are attracted to “shiny objects”: money clips, camera
lenses, fancy watches. All you have to do is flash it better or more
profusely than the next guy and you’re in. This is something men
can understand, for there is logic here, and structure. A road map
to follow: acquire shiny objects, acquire hot women. Simple. One for
the left arm and one for the right arm? Sure, why not?
Beautiful women do not care about these things at all. They are attracted to only one thing in men: beauty. And what is the beauty in a man? A lifelong devotion to a personal passion, a passion larger than him, larger than her, larger than the whole wide world, a passion that radiates from his pores until the day he dies. This is the beauty of men. And this is why beautiful women are forever in love with starving artists, musicians, dreamers, iconoclasts. They love these men because they, too, possess a certain, rare beauty. They, too, are set apart.»
-- Zan Perrion, "The alabaster girl"
Beautiful women do not care about these things at all. They are attracted to only one thing in men: beauty. And what is the beauty in a man? A lifelong devotion to a personal passion, a passion larger than him, larger than her, larger than the whole wide world, a passion that radiates from his pores until the day he dies. This is the beauty of men. And this is why beautiful women are forever in love with starving artists, musicians, dreamers, iconoclasts. They love these men because they, too, possess a certain, rare beauty. They, too, are set apart.»
-- Zan Perrion, "The alabaster girl"
I think there is some truth in that. In a recent interview Shane McGowan's wife stated she was interested in him because he could get her access to lots of celebrities and she was very shallow. She wanted to get invites to parties with Elton John or David Bowie. Then she realised that he wasn't motivated by any of that stuff and would just as soon have a conversation with a homeless person that someone "important". She was very impressed with his empathy and community spirit and it changed her as a person to be with him. Your description would certainly explain their relationship.
I don't love this, but I don't disagree at all. I think many men underestimate just how much women crave and seek out beauty. Not just within themselves, but within the world. Men who have a similar eye for beauty are irresistible to a certain kind of woman.
"Monogamy," by Adam Phillips: very short, paradigm-shifting observations about the assumptions we make about our relationships
Good sex extends beyond chemistry and self-pleasure. Good sex strengthens the bond between two people and makes them smile more at each other.
The Bible is my goto for sex and relationships. I am male and have been married for nearly 30 years. The bible teaches me to keep sex, and sex thoughts, for my wife. This is a very different culture from how I grew up. I think too many sexual partners messes with your head as you get older. You romanticise old connections when the going gets tough with your partner. Testing sexual compatibility is also a nonsense. I can confirm I was downright rubbish at sex. In a loving relationship you find a way and get there in the end.
The bible is also counter intuitive about relationships, love your neighbour and your enemy.
Many of the books and theories mentioned here will be long forgotten. There are still many like myself who lean on the ancient wisdom and teachings of Jesus.
The Bible is my goto for sex and relationships. I am male and have been married for nearly 30 years. The bible teaches me to keep sex, and sex thoughts, for my wife. This is a very different culture from how I grew up. I think too many sexual partners messes with your head as you get older. You romanticise old connections when the going gets tough with your partner. Testing sexual compatibility is also a nonsense. I can confirm I was downright rubbish at sex. In a loving relationship you find a way and get there in the end.
The bible is also counter intuitive about relationships, love your neighbour and your enemy.
Many of the books and theories mentioned here will be long forgotten. There are still many like myself who lean on the ancient wisdom and teachings of Jesus.
The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities
All About Love: New Visions
All About Love: New Visions
[deleted]
- The 5 Love Languages - Gary Chapman, had a big impact on my relationships
- Tantra Sex - Kerry & Diane Riley, control & enjoy sexuality on an other level
- Intimacy & Desire: Awaken the Passion in Your Relationship - David Schnarch
- Tantra Sex - Kerry & Diane Riley, control & enjoy sexuality on an other level
- Intimacy & Desire: Awaken the Passion in Your Relationship - David Schnarch
I recently read Chapman’s book and it was really helpful in getting across a simple idea that I wished I had known many years ago.
The Rational Male - Rollo Tomassi.
I know it likely going to be a hated example, but nonetheless I strongly suggest to read it if you are confused or unsure about certain aspects of relationships.
I know it likely going to be a hated example, but nonetheless I strongly suggest to read it if you are confused or unsure about certain aspects of relationships.
I had this book recommended to me so many times, I read it and really disagreed with it on so many levels [0].
Generally I don’t like how the author acts like everything is rooted in science and everyone is forced to act out their biology.
And I don’t like its oppositional nature of men vs women in a zero sum game to get what? Married? Laid?
It’s not a useless book, especially if you want to be an alpha and pick up girls.
But I think I’m looking for a bit more than that and feel there are genuine connections based on interest and purpose and aligned goals. And the other people interested in that would detect and not be interested in the “tactics” called out here.
The book mentions hypergamy many, many times and this is based on the biological inferiority of women to men and for women to seek out men more attractive than them. I think there are now many women with equal or even superior careers and ambitions and passions who aren’t seeking a “superior” mate. The book spends some time calling out how people like me are wrong, etc. but the evidence presented is a bunch of anecdotes.
And every anecdote told just made me think all parties are skeezy and not attractive to me. In that I don’t want to pick up waitresses and randos, etc.
So this may be a situation of the book and technique just isn’t for me. But I wanted to share this because it really is recommended so much to me and it perplexed me how bad the book seemed to me.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/4273072082
Generally I don’t like how the author acts like everything is rooted in science and everyone is forced to act out their biology.
And I don’t like its oppositional nature of men vs women in a zero sum game to get what? Married? Laid?
It’s not a useless book, especially if you want to be an alpha and pick up girls.
But I think I’m looking for a bit more than that and feel there are genuine connections based on interest and purpose and aligned goals. And the other people interested in that would detect and not be interested in the “tactics” called out here.
The book mentions hypergamy many, many times and this is based on the biological inferiority of women to men and for women to seek out men more attractive than them. I think there are now many women with equal or even superior careers and ambitions and passions who aren’t seeking a “superior” mate. The book spends some time calling out how people like me are wrong, etc. but the evidence presented is a bunch of anecdotes.
And every anecdote told just made me think all parties are skeezy and not attractive to me. In that I don’t want to pick up waitresses and randos, etc.
So this may be a situation of the book and technique just isn’t for me. But I wanted to share this because it really is recommended so much to me and it perplexed me how bad the book seemed to me.
[0] https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/4273072082
> Generally I don’t like how the author acts like everything is rooted in science and everyone is forced to act out their biology.
The naturalistic fallacy is a pretty easy one to commit, and it seems to be running especially rampant in the genre of "scientific"/"rational" dating/relationship advice.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that evolutionary biology has tons of interesting discoveries that can help humanity understand itself better, and I find it extremely interesting myself.
But the fallacy happens when looking at what there is, in terms of the biological/genetic basis (and frankly, the evidence and science is often not nearly as clear as these books present it), and taking that as a guideline or even commandments as for what there ought to be.
Harari has a nice way of putting this idea in "Sapiens": If there is a defining nature to Homo sapiens, it is that we have a quite strong and persistent capability of not being bound to our biology's defining nature (hope I'm paraphrasing somewhat accurately here).
Of course biology (as the hardware that's running our software) has an incredibly strong influence on our experience, and denying that has caused a lot of needless suffering (and still does), but just explaining away the significant impact of culture and our minds on our biological reality seems overly reductionist.
Or to go with a computational analogy: Our minds are turing-complete, so they can run any software there can possibly exist – some paths do have extremely good hardware acceleration, but efficiency isn't everything in (human) life :)
The naturalistic fallacy is a pretty easy one to commit, and it seems to be running especially rampant in the genre of "scientific"/"rational" dating/relationship advice.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that evolutionary biology has tons of interesting discoveries that can help humanity understand itself better, and I find it extremely interesting myself.
But the fallacy happens when looking at what there is, in terms of the biological/genetic basis (and frankly, the evidence and science is often not nearly as clear as these books present it), and taking that as a guideline or even commandments as for what there ought to be.
Harari has a nice way of putting this idea in "Sapiens": If there is a defining nature to Homo sapiens, it is that we have a quite strong and persistent capability of not being bound to our biology's defining nature (hope I'm paraphrasing somewhat accurately here).
Of course biology (as the hardware that's running our software) has an incredibly strong influence on our experience, and denying that has caused a lot of needless suffering (and still does), but just explaining away the significant impact of culture and our minds on our biological reality seems overly reductionist.
Or to go with a computational analogy: Our minds are turing-complete, so they can run any software there can possibly exist – some paths do have extremely good hardware acceleration, but efficiency isn't everything in (human) life :)
Please don’t take it the wrong way - but from what you say I tend to sense some idealistic attitudes.
The book doesn’t teach how to “be alpha and get laid”. The most important aspect of it is knowledge of opposite gender games. If you understand it - you will never ever be confused of relationships. If you don’t - you will be constantly confused.
The truth, like God, doesn’t care if you disagree with it or not. It’s just there, whether you like it or not, whether you believe in it or not.
Things like game exist and will always be because it’s necessary for evolution. On other hand, things like “genuine connection” do not exist outside of your imagination.
The book doesn’t teach how to “be alpha and get laid”. The most important aspect of it is knowledge of opposite gender games. If you understand it - you will never ever be confused of relationships. If you don’t - you will be constantly confused.
The truth, like God, doesn’t care if you disagree with it or not. It’s just there, whether you like it or not, whether you believe in it or not.
Things like game exist and will always be because it’s necessary for evolution. On other hand, things like “genuine connection” do not exist outside of your imagination.
> Things like game exist and will always be because it’s necessary for evolution. On other hand, things like “genuine connection” do not exist outside of your imagination.
Nothing exists outside of your imagination. Reality is a soup of particles interacting with each other, and your mind is trying to make sense of these through a complex layer of abstractions and modeling.
"The game" is no more or less real as a concept than "genuine connection". They're essentially both attempts to model reality, and arguably, they are not even trying to model the same aspects of reality.
So, sure, be aware of our biological needs and constraints, as neglecting them means fighting a hard-to-win uphill battle. But I wouldn't make the mistake of seeing biology as any more or less real than psychology and culture. They're different models for different levels of our stack, and arguably, meaningful relationships necessarily span many more of these layers.
I wouldn't expect biology (alone) to give me meaningful relationship advice just like I wouldn't expect psychology and sociology to tell us how to cure cancer.
> but from what you say I tend to sense some idealistic attitudes.
What's wrong with a bit of idealism, ideally mixed with a heavy dose of pragmatism? Knowing exactly where you already are is important, but it doesn't tell you where to go next.
Nothing exists outside of your imagination. Reality is a soup of particles interacting with each other, and your mind is trying to make sense of these through a complex layer of abstractions and modeling.
"The game" is no more or less real as a concept than "genuine connection". They're essentially both attempts to model reality, and arguably, they are not even trying to model the same aspects of reality.
So, sure, be aware of our biological needs and constraints, as neglecting them means fighting a hard-to-win uphill battle. But I wouldn't make the mistake of seeing biology as any more or less real than psychology and culture. They're different models for different levels of our stack, and arguably, meaningful relationships necessarily span many more of these layers.
I wouldn't expect biology (alone) to give me meaningful relationship advice just like I wouldn't expect psychology and sociology to tell us how to cure cancer.
> but from what you say I tend to sense some idealistic attitudes.
What's wrong with a bit of idealism, ideally mixed with a heavy dose of pragmatism? Knowing exactly where you already are is important, but it doesn't tell you where to go next.
> "The game" is no more or less real as a concept than "genuine connection". They're essentially both attempts to model reality, and arguably, they are not even trying to model the same aspects of reality.
There are key differences - "the game" is real, it's mechanisms were arguably as long as evolution out there. It's been developed as a part of evolution process and likely be there for a while.
Now we need to clarify that "game" is not "being alpha and get laid" as some may speculate, it's a much wider definition.
On the opposite, constructs like "genuine connection", "love" and sorts do not exist and are solely a construct being used for whatever reason out there.
> I wouldn't expect biology (alone) to give me meaningful relationship advice just like I wouldn't expect psychology and sociology to tell us how to cure cancer.
Noone is denying that. If you have only absorbed biological context out of the book, perhaps it's time to reread.
> What's wrong with a bit of idealism
Nothing. We are entitled to have any picture of our world. But the more distant it is from reality, the more confused and frustrated it will leave us when - inevitably - the discrepancy hits us on head hard. Nature doesn't care if you believe in this or that, it just follows it's laws.
There are key differences - "the game" is real, it's mechanisms were arguably as long as evolution out there. It's been developed as a part of evolution process and likely be there for a while.
Now we need to clarify that "game" is not "being alpha and get laid" as some may speculate, it's a much wider definition.
On the opposite, constructs like "genuine connection", "love" and sorts do not exist and are solely a construct being used for whatever reason out there.
> I wouldn't expect biology (alone) to give me meaningful relationship advice just like I wouldn't expect psychology and sociology to tell us how to cure cancer.
Noone is denying that. If you have only absorbed biological context out of the book, perhaps it's time to reread.
> What's wrong with a bit of idealism
Nothing. We are entitled to have any picture of our world. But the more distant it is from reality, the more confused and frustrated it will leave us when - inevitably - the discrepancy hits us on head hard. Nature doesn't care if you believe in this or that, it just follows it's laws.
> The truth, like God, doesn’t care if you disagree with it or not. It’s just there, whether you like it or not, whether you believe in it or not.
I think I understand this and I disagree.
Maybe I am idealistic, but I’m ok with that. And there’s many situations where I’ll stay idealistic despite reality, but I think there are many valid outcomes while going my own way and not using anything in this book.
It’s hard to compare outcomes, but I’m content. And, anecdotally, it’s not like there’s shining data for people following this approach.
It’s pretty easy to show that games are necessary now as we don’t need to evolve. Humans aren’t slaves to biology and in many ways transcend what evolution wants us to do.
I think I understand this and I disagree.
Maybe I am idealistic, but I’m ok with that. And there’s many situations where I’ll stay idealistic despite reality, but I think there are many valid outcomes while going my own way and not using anything in this book.
It’s hard to compare outcomes, but I’m content. And, anecdotally, it’s not like there’s shining data for people following this approach.
It’s pretty easy to show that games are necessary now as we don’t need to evolve. Humans aren’t slaves to biology and in many ways transcend what evolution wants us to do.
Games exist regardless of whether we believe or not. There is nothing wrong in being idealistic - we all delude ourselves either temporarily or perpetually, on narrow or wide range of subject. If that helps to be content - by all means.
Evolutionary some creatures openly face adversities, some prefer to hide head in sand pretending everything is alright. There is no right or wrong answer here I guess, whatever gives peace of mind.
Evolutionary some creatures openly face adversities, some prefer to hide head in sand pretending everything is alright. There is no right or wrong answer here I guess, whatever gives peace of mind.
> On other hand, things like “genuine connection” do not exist outside of your imagination.
Really telling on yourself here.
Really telling on yourself here.
I'd agree, Rational Male is a life changing book.
It works on a number of levels:
- Confirms many young man's (usually wrong) biases about women.
- Provides a convenient post-hoc rationalization to men who cannot get laid.
- Further mystifies the idea of women by building convoluted pseudo-intellectual structures.
It works on a number of levels:
- Confirms many young man's (usually wrong) biases about women.
- Provides a convenient post-hoc rationalization to men who cannot get laid.
- Further mystifies the idea of women by building convoluted pseudo-intellectual structures.
It definitely changed a friend's life for the worse, and he's gotten even worse at relationships than he previously was
It doesn’t say anything about the book quality. The book gives knowledge, whether or how to apply the knowledge is absolutely different subject. People tend to be stick to their biases and delusions, with relationships particularly so.
As someone who has occasionally stumbled across the community around this book at Reddit, I do wonder why so many of these men keep trying. When I reached, from relationship experience, my own conclusion that any partner in a relationship would inevitably have different and incompatible goals, motivations, and outlook from own, I simply chose to live alone from then on.
Obviously people might crave companionship. But if one is frustrated in obtaining that to the point of seizing on literature like Tomassi’s book, why keep hitting one’s head against that wall?
Obviously people might crave companionship. But if one is frustrated in obtaining that to the point of seizing on literature like Tomassi’s book, why keep hitting one’s head against that wall?
I would suggest one perspective - curiosity. Often i like to observe relationships not from standpoint of having it or getting in, but from standpoint of evolutionary game, which it is.
Surely sometimes it’s easier to recluse yourself from situation or a problem. But it won’t be fun :)
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Gottman. He's a bit tedious, but he studied marriages for 50 years. It's research based and not simply a hypothesis.
I did, it’s somewhere way below
Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski helped me appreciate certain aspects of my sexuality in a way that changed my life wonderfully
Human Relationships, by Steve Duck
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Relationships-Steve-Duck-ebook/...
The book aims to present research insights in a way to be of practical use for a common person.
https://www.amazon.com/Human-Relationships-Steve-Duck-ebook/...
The book aims to present research insights in a way to be of practical use for a common person.
I kind of think that if you have life-changing relationships, the books and the sex will fall into place more sensibly.
NB/monogamous
Didn’t see them here so:
“Our bodies, ourselves.” The old school primer on exploring your sexuality
“The multi-orgasmic man” a significant change in how to experience sex
“Conscious loving” one of the most effective books in shifting out of fear and into play to growth through relationships
Didn’t see them here so:
“Our bodies, ourselves.” The old school primer on exploring your sexuality
“The multi-orgasmic man” a significant change in how to experience sex
“Conscious loving” one of the most effective books in shifting out of fear and into play to growth through relationships
Come as You Are: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagosky
_Radical Love: A revolution for the 21st century_ by Lídia Puigvert & Jesús Gómez.
Attached by Levine and Heller
“7 principles for making marriage work” had a couple of new insights for me
Harville Hendrix - Getting The Love You Want
Levine Heller - Attached
Levine Heller - Attached
“A General Theory of Love” by T. Lewis et al.
Venusian Arts: Revelation
You're just gonna get 1001 self-serving suggestions on why monogamy is le bad.
(Professional sex-haver tip: sexuality is like nutrition - consistency and moderation is 90% of being physically and mentally fit.)
(Professional sex-haver tip: sexuality is like nutrition - consistency and moderation is 90% of being physically and mentally fit.)
Why do you think that?
I'm in a polygamist relationship, have been for just over five years. No one in the community I know thinks monogamy is bad, I don't think monogamy is bad. Neither monogamy nor polygamy is bad.
It's a personal preference that only matters to the ones making the decisions. As long as you are making the decision, there is no wrong answer
I'm in a polygamist relationship, have been for just over five years. No one in the community I know thinks monogamy is bad, I don't think monogamy is bad. Neither monogamy nor polygamy is bad.
It's a personal preference that only matters to the ones making the decisions. As long as you are making the decision, there is no wrong answer
Same here. It's far more often my poly social group tells friends not to enter polyamory. It's right for some people, but not for most people. All the poly people I know have the utmost respect for people who declare themselves monogamous and adhere to it through their behavior. Long monogamous marriages are glorified and celebrated, at least by the people in my poly community.
Interesting thread.
We can find notable takes on this subject from bawdy folk tales/stories/plays/poems from many cultures. For an English translation of many Sanskrit texts from Ancient India on this topic see the works of A.N.D.Haksar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._N._D._Haksar
We can find notable takes on this subject from bawdy folk tales/stories/plays/poems from many cultures. For an English translation of many Sanskrit texts from Ancient India on this topic see the works of A.N.D.Haksar - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._N._D._Haksar
Since then, I have been thinking about asking the question for Sex and Relationships. So here we are, please share the most impactful book you have read on Sex/Relationships.
Additional caveat, good if you can add your gender and relationship status along with your answer for betterment of other readers.