GMC made a motorhome that pumped sewage through its exhaust on purpose(thedrive.com)
thedrive.com
GMC made a motorhome that pumped sewage through its exhaust on purpose
https://www.thedrive.com/news/culture/gmc-made-a-motorhome-that-pumped-sewage-through-its-exhaust-on-purpose
66 comments
It's not a fundamentally stupid idea. There are incinerating toilets. 900F will kill anything biological. Getting rid of ammonia is a pain, though.
> Getting rid of ammonia is a pain, though.
There are systems that can do that too... blue ice from airplanes?
or DEF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
There are systems that can do that too... blue ice from airplanes?
or DEF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
def is the opposite; it gets rid of nitrogen oxides, which are strong oxidizers, not ammonia, which is a relatively strong reducer. in fact, def is made of urea, so if you heat it up enough, it will emit ammonia
what is 900F?
482 Celsius
Or 4.82 teas (boiling waters at Earth's mean sea level).
batman slap You cannot multiply a non-absolute measurement system like that!
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OMG
OMG
Trains used to dump waste, without incinerating it. Which is why there's this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyiMYI4oQTU
I remember an old train's toilet just being an outright hole to the area between both tracks.
No processing whatsoever, you could look down and see your train zooming through the granite.
No processing whatsoever, you could look down and see your train zooming through the granite.
"Toimii kuin junan vessa"
A Finnish saying "Works like a train toilet" meaning something that works with utter reliability.
This is because old Finnish trains simply had a flap in the toilet to dump the shit out onto the tracks. However, if it broke, it would invariably break in the open position, meaning it still worked.
A Finnish saying "Works like a train toilet" meaning something that works with utter reliability.
This is because old Finnish trains simply had a flap in the toilet to dump the shit out onto the tracks. However, if it broke, it would invariably break in the open position, meaning it still worked.
And there were helpful notices asking you not to do your business when the train is at a station.
Reminds me of a river cruise I went on in India back in '96. The toilet was a seat over a length of poly pipe going directly into the river. At one point we stopped around lunchtime and some British tourists on the cruise had a lovely lunch with locally caught fish... after which they were mysteriously rather unwell.
During offshore sailboat races, we just hang off the back.
An interesting fun fact. On old square rigger sailing ships the toilets(holes really) were at the very front of a ship. this is because the wind is always coming from behind the ship so this keeps the smell from washing over the vessel. This is why toilets on a ship are called the "head"
And to add one of those things you can't unsee once you learn about it(sort of the nautical equivalent of font kerning) the flag on a sailing ship should always be fluttering forward for the same reason, the problem is our intuition is built around motor vessels where the vehicle is faster than the wind and does flutter backwards. so it looks wrong and quite a few artists get this incorrect in modern paintings and video games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfC1PEKt1U
And to add one of those things you can't unsee once you learn about it(sort of the nautical equivalent of font kerning) the flag on a sailing ship should always be fluttering forward for the same reason, the problem is our intuition is built around motor vessels where the vehicle is faster than the wind and does flutter backwards. so it looks wrong and quite a few artists get this incorrect in modern paintings and video games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfC1PEKt1U
That's also why the small deck sections that extend forwards off the bow are called poop decks.
I suspect, and wikipedia confirms, that is incorrect, but it made me laugh, salutes.
My father has lied to me.
The “do not use in station” is a really important sign to follow.
I remember seeing tomato plants growing on the tracks at my local station and realising how they got there.
Bypass phytosanitary security theatre with this one simple trick!
Last time I was on a virgin west coast train (which should highlight how long ago we're talking since they've not had the franchise for like 15 years), they still did, only into the bathroom, the bathroom with a incorrectly functioning automatic door.
And then there's the Dave Matthews Band (and I don't mean what is spewed on stage).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Matthews_Band_Chicago_R...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Matthews_Band_Chicago_R...
There are still quite a few of those in circulation in Italy.
> Apparently, urea and ammonia in the waste went untreated,
Ahead of the curve on DEF!
Ahead of the curve on DEF!
> Apparently, urea and ammonia in the waste went untreated
Of course not; these are not germs that are killed by a hot exhaust pipe.
Of course not; these are not germs that are killed by a hot exhaust pipe.
funny enough, I think diesel trucks are required by law to burn a form of this with diesel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid
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First thing I thought of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4g4WBo-5fc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4g4WBo-5fc
Driving behind that thing must be exhausting.
Tailpipe “emissions” indeed.
Modern cars with HEPA eliminate all smell
Hey, I recognize that thing. It’s the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle!
Took exhaust a bit too literal
> the raw sewage, which accumulates in an onboard tank
Misleading. RVs have separate tanks for toilets or use chemical toilets. "Sewage" is water from shovers or washing dishes.
Misleading. RVs have separate tanks for toilets or use chemical toilets. "Sewage" is water from shovers or washing dishes.
Most modern RV's have separate grey and blackwater tanks, but many older units (including the 1973 GMC RV) had a single combined tank.
You sometimes still still a combined tank on modern units, usually smaller ones.
I don't know what you mean by "chemical toilets", I put digesting/deodorizing chemicals in my RV's black tank, does that make it a "chemical toilet"? Either way, the liquid I drain from the black tank is definitely what I would call "sewage".
You sometimes still still a combined tank on modern units, usually smaller ones.
I don't know what you mean by "chemical toilets", I put digesting/deodorizing chemicals in my RV's black tank, does that make it a "chemical toilet"? Either way, the liquid I drain from the black tank is definitely what I would call "sewage".
Black water (from the toilet) is most definitely sewage. Where did you get the idea that it isn’t? Grey water can be sewage, too.
My RV doesn't have separate tanks or a chemical toilet.
Some RVs have separate black water tanks (toilet specifically) and grey water tanks (shower, sinks). Not all do. Sewage is definitely black water and not grey.
Considering people take a leak in the shower and stuck excrement can get lose during showering I would argue gray water has various shades of gray up to black.
That explains why all those motorhomes illegally parked in Seattle neighborhoods are dumping raw sewage into the streets. I always assumed it was a bug, not a feature.
According to the article, the system only pumps waste into the exhaust when the exhaust temperature is 900F and the vehicle is moving at least 35mph. So just dumping sewage onto the streets isn't how they work at all, unlike they're broken I guess. Also, this system apparently wasn't common, since it was just on one model, in one year, right before the oil embargo caused the entire RV industry to mostly die out for a while.
Honestly, this thing doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. It would be interesting to see how it really affects tailpipe emissions with some modern testing (when it's working properly, of course).
Honestly, this thing doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. It would be interesting to see how it really affects tailpipe emissions with some modern testing (when it's working properly, of course).
It sounds slightly less bad than dried horse dung on the streets.
Seriously the savings to the RVs for polluting the commons are probably pennies on the dollar for all the issues this could cause others on the roads and near them.
Seriously the savings to the RVs for polluting the commons are probably pennies on the dollar for all the issues this could cause others on the roads and near them.
>It sounds slightly less bad than dried horse dung on the streets.
How so? It only releases liquid waste, not solid waste, and it's released into the exhaust stream that's 900F, at a rather low flow rate. Just guessing, I'd say the emissions from this device really don't sound harmful at all, whereas the emissions from the vehicle's engine itself (which probably lacks a catalytic converter since it was 1973) are quite awful. I'm also guessing that the emissions from this thing can't possibly be as bad as the emissions from all the diesel pickups today with their engines modified to "roll coal", which is rather common and completely unregulated.
How so? It only releases liquid waste, not solid waste, and it's released into the exhaust stream that's 900F, at a rather low flow rate. Just guessing, I'd say the emissions from this device really don't sound harmful at all, whereas the emissions from the vehicle's engine itself (which probably lacks a catalytic converter since it was 1973) are quite awful. I'm also guessing that the emissions from this thing can't possibly be as bad as the emissions from all the diesel pickups today with their engines modified to "roll coal", which is rather common and completely unregulated.
Lets say that the legally allowed limits of various pests which might infiltrate food production were taken as a guideline and 90% of those limits were intentionally added as filler, with the remaining 10% of the legal limit as a safety factor against recalls.
Would you agree that's a bad thing? This is intentionally dumping waste in a diluted form; but right in front of the possibility of a sea of cars which happen to not be in a traffic jam (35+ mph IIRC?). Well maybe the motor-home is safely and slowing taking the curves on a narrow 2 lane highway with no real opportunity for passing with a bunch of cars backed up behind it, forced to endure the exhausts.
Would you agree that's a bad thing? This is intentionally dumping waste in a diluted form; but right in front of the possibility of a sea of cars which happen to not be in a traffic jam (35+ mph IIRC?). Well maybe the motor-home is safely and slowing taking the curves on a narrow 2 lane highway with no real opportunity for passing with a bunch of cars backed up behind it, forced to endure the exhausts.
I assume the 900°F part had a lot to do with making this a viable consideration.
Of course, I'm with you - wouldn't want to be behind it either. That said, in the 1970s cars left a cloud enriched with lead so ...
Of course, I'm with you - wouldn't want to be behind it either. That said, in the 1970s cars left a cloud enriched with lead so ...
Consider also how common leaded gasoline was in the 1970s.
Your last comment is incorrect. They are absolutely regulated. Enforcement lacked for years but had caught up quickly in the past 2 years. Fines are huge if you get caught doing it.
if it's broken, sure. but any broken sewage system is hazardous. if it's working as described it sounds completely safe
Dogs puts excrements everywhere: parks, streets, even restaurants and grocery stores. This society loves poop!
Edit: Many people do not collect their poop. Or leave it behind on fence wrapped in thin bag. And most just pick up like 70% and leave rest. And diarrhoea is just smeared thin all over the floor.
But by "excrements" I also mean urine. And small bits that fall from exposed dirty but-holes, like when dog sits down, and leaves brown marks on white seat.
Edit: Many people do not collect their poop. Or leave it behind on fence wrapped in thin bag. And most just pick up like 70% and leave rest. And diarrhoea is just smeared thin all over the floor.
But by "excrements" I also mean urine. And small bits that fall from exposed dirty but-holes, like when dog sits down, and leaves brown marks on white seat.
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I don't know about where you live, but in my town, people are required to pick up their dogs' poop, wherever it may be.
People are "required" to do all sorts of things, yet they get away with not doing them every single day.
I remember being a kid in the 1960's dog poop, cig butts, pop tops, and broken glass everywhere. Every vacant lot accumulated junk.
More on topic diesel trucks and buses had the tail pipe coming out of the back. I remember carping at my mom for always stopping right behind buses. And she said, oh you're right.
Different world before the 1970's
More on topic diesel trucks and buses had the tail pipe coming out of the back. I remember carping at my mom for always stopping right behind buses. And she said, oh you're right.
Different world before the 1970's
That's very normal in America. But it's also very normal for people to simply ignore this rule, and leave poop all over the sidewalk.
Similarly, many public parks require that dogs be kept on a leash. However, here again dog owners don't think they need to follow rules, and let their dogs run loose. Reminding them of the rule is usually met with hostility, profanity, and physical threats.
Similarly, many public parks require that dogs be kept on a leash. However, here again dog owners don't think they need to follow rules, and let their dogs run loose. Reminding them of the rule is usually met with hostility, profanity, and physical threats.
I don't know about where you live, but in my town, people are required to pick up their dogs' poop, wherever it may be.
> That explains why all those motorhomes illegally parked in Seattle neighborhoods are dumping raw sewage into the streets.
What else did you imagine might happen? Motorhomes are designed to be parked in RV/trailer parks where there are sewage hookups. Without that, the number of possible outcomes is pretty limited.
What else did you imagine might happen? Motorhomes are designed to be parked in RV/trailer parks where there are sewage hookups. Without that, the number of possible outcomes is pretty limited.
sounds like somebody's got an education coming up!
with a cassette toilet, you can take out the cassette, roll it down the sidewalk to someplace with a conventional bathroom, and dump the cassette into the conventional bathroom's toilet; then flush. then you walk back to the rv. some people have tote bags for their cassettes to keep this subtle. this is needed a few times a month
blackwater tanks last a great deal longer, months, but at that point yeah you need to go somewhere with an rv dump station. better get the engine running by then. this is one reason blackwater-tank rvs are practically unknown many places
with a composting toilet, your dried poop and composting medium is just another trash bag to take out, about once or twice a week. if you've never used one, you'd assume it stinks, but generally it doesn't. (pee goes in a separate bottle, which you need to empty every day or two.) logistically this is a little bit more work (you have to get the composting medium from somewhere, and if you gather it in the forest, you need to make sure it isn't going to hatch ten thousand crickets to greet you the next time you have to poop) but it's a great deal less risky than having a bottle of raw sewage
with a cassette toilet, you can take out the cassette, roll it down the sidewalk to someplace with a conventional bathroom, and dump the cassette into the conventional bathroom's toilet; then flush. then you walk back to the rv. some people have tote bags for their cassettes to keep this subtle. this is needed a few times a month
blackwater tanks last a great deal longer, months, but at that point yeah you need to go somewhere with an rv dump station. better get the engine running by then. this is one reason blackwater-tank rvs are practically unknown many places
with a composting toilet, your dried poop and composting medium is just another trash bag to take out, about once or twice a week. if you've never used one, you'd assume it stinks, but generally it doesn't. (pee goes in a separate bottle, which you need to empty every day or two.) logistically this is a little bit more work (you have to get the composting medium from somewhere, and if you gather it in the forest, you need to make sure it isn't going to hatch ten thousand crickets to greet you the next time you have to poop) but it's a great deal less risky than having a bottle of raw sewage
And what proportion of the RVs squatting in Seattle neighborhoods do you think have those systems?
Where do you think those squatters are going to dump that waste?
My question stands, why would someone expect a different outcome from the actual one?
Where do you think those squatters are going to dump that waste?
My question stands, why would someone expect a different outcome from the actual one?
i'm surprised to see someone call on-street parking 'squatting'. squatting is an infringement of private property rights (whether or not justified). i haven't lived in the usa for a long time, but from videos i see on youtube, on-street parking seems to be a nearly universal practice among motor vehicle owners, rather than being considered any infringement on property rights, which sounds like an extremist view similar to those of the 'sovereign citizen' movement
i haven't been in seattle this millennium, so i can't do more than guess what the mix is. over 95% of factory-built rvs in the usa have one or another of those systems, and something like 70% of diy rvs. diy rvs almost never have blackwater tanks, always either composting toilets, cassette toilets, or nothing
where will campers dump waste? it matters a lot which system we're talking about
composting-toilet waste, as i said, can easily go into the normal municipal solid-waste stream, same as disposable diapers, but with less smell and health hazard
cassette toilets can be easily emptied into any sewer-connected toilet. when i lived in the usa, most gas stations, supermarkets, and restaurants had toilets with sewer hookups; also highway rest stops and for-profit truck stops (flying j, love's, etc.) also, if you have any friends who have houses, even a single one, you can dump it into their toilet. or pay for a hot-sheets motel room once a week and use theirs
blackwater-tank systems, you're gonna have to drive to the koa kampground or a truck stop 2–4 times a year
i haven't been in seattle this millennium, so i can't do more than guess what the mix is. over 95% of factory-built rvs in the usa have one or another of those systems, and something like 70% of diy rvs. diy rvs almost never have blackwater tanks, always either composting toilets, cassette toilets, or nothing
where will campers dump waste? it matters a lot which system we're talking about
composting-toilet waste, as i said, can easily go into the normal municipal solid-waste stream, same as disposable diapers, but with less smell and health hazard
cassette toilets can be easily emptied into any sewer-connected toilet. when i lived in the usa, most gas stations, supermarkets, and restaurants had toilets with sewer hookups; also highway rest stops and for-profit truck stops (flying j, love's, etc.) also, if you have any friends who have houses, even a single one, you can dump it into their toilet. or pay for a hot-sheets motel room once a week and use theirs
blackwater-tank systems, you're gonna have to drive to the koa kampground or a truck stop 2–4 times a year
I feel this every time people complain about homeless people in LA pooping on the sidewalk.
They have no legal access to a toilet, so where do you think they are SUPPOSED to poop?
They have no legal access to a toilet, so where do you think they are SUPPOSED to poop?