Stop Building Products Nobody Wants: The Validation Method That Works
Hey HN,
Recently I have been working on a couple startups in SF. And I have noticed talking to a lot of founders, since my target users are early stage founders, that they are hyper focused on building.
Often they come up with a idea they think is great and can't stop thinking about it and just shoot out to build it. Often they might go months on long just straight building. And while building is extremely important, and being so passionate about is great. I have come to realize they often end up not really validating anything.
So after a lot of testing and validation, and reading the "Mom test" of course, I think I know the best way to validate.
Before you build anything, have a clear way to define what you are building, whip up a quick landing page and get people to pay. Show them demos, and really get the landing page in front of them. If people will pay before even building something, that is a great sign for you to go ahead and build as well a to investors.
So yeah, I just wanted to put that out there, if anyone has anything to say let me know.
21 comments
I had really hoped we were past the "landing page" concept at this point. Yes, if you can get people to pay, that validates the ideas, but a landing page is mostly a validation of the marketing, not the product. And it could be complete throwaway work because once the product hits user's hand, they will correct the details that are wrong, and your initial "landing page" is outdated instantly.
Better to talk to people and iterate on prototypes with a handful of pilot users until they are willing to pay, them expand beyond the pilot group. Not only it is real communication and iteration with users, we aren't spamming the world with "landing pages" of products that do not actually exist.
Better to talk to people and iterate on prototypes with a handful of pilot users until they are willing to pay, them expand beyond the pilot group. Not only it is real communication and iteration with users, we aren't spamming the world with "landing pages" of products that do not actually exist.
Landing page might be overdone, but you follow up with talking to users etc.
The mechanics may differ, but the point is the same. Validating the idea with real customers, finding those customers, getting them to be interested, is exactly the hard part.
Once you have a way to reach your projected customers, once you've even determined they exist, then you should start building.
Building first, then wondering who the customer is, or how to reach them, is a waste of time and money.
The mechanics may differ, but the point is the same. Validating the idea with real customers, finding those customers, getting them to be interested, is exactly the hard part.
Once you have a way to reach your projected customers, once you've even determined they exist, then you should start building.
Building first, then wondering who the customer is, or how to reach them, is a waste of time and money.
Ok well, your right it is usually a combination of things, you can have several prototypes that you show. My point is you shouldn't get stuck in any of the i will build before validating.
And also, unless you get feedback in the right way, a lot of people could mislead you. Paying shows real validation that you cant argue with. Actions are a lot louder than just words.
This might work for B2C startups, but not so much for B2B. In B2B, people need to see a working product that clearly saves them time or money. The sales cycle is longer, and landing page tactics alone usually aren’t effective.
A better approach is to talk to as many potential customers as possible early on. Collect emails, show a rough prototype, get feedback, and iterate. Then, when you’re ready to launch, go back to those same people, email them, show what’s changed, and demo how the product delivers real value.
A better approach is to talk to as many potential customers as possible early on. Collect emails, show a rough prototype, get feedback, and iterate. Then, when you’re ready to launch, go back to those same people, email them, show what’s changed, and demo how the product delivers real value.
Note there is a slice of B2C products that are sold like he is thinking. I wanted a subscription to Polypane, got a free trial and ultimately my administrative assistant punched in our P-card number to their web site. I had to fill out paperwork to satisfy one of New York’s largest private employers, but the burden was all on me —- though there would have been no free trial for a product that didn’t exist and the paperwork wouldn’t have been so simple if it didn’t.
Hey, Polypane founder here hoping to get feedback and iterate ;)
Needing to fill in the paperwork for a saas is a PITA. Is there anything I could add to the site or elsewhere that would have made that easier for you?
Needing to fill in the paperwork for a saas is a PITA. Is there anything I could add to the site or elsewhere that would have made that easier for you?
My Uni has site licenses for many products such as Snagit 2025 and if I want a license for that the skids are greased. You did everything right from the viewpoint of an early adopter, in the future I guess your sales people could talk to our Central IT and negotiate something, if you send me an email I could try to find out how you would talk to.
Yeah I guess your right about that, build a quick MVP and validate from there. Makes sense.
I think this might work for B2C or "MAX FREEMIUM" (where you have 200M+ users and maybe you hit 100M in revenue after 10 years because 10% convert to paid).
But overall I think people should focus on solving problems they have actually faced that have a "REAL" (tangible) ROI.
There are plenty of good businesses with a crappy website that are solving actual problems.
But overall I think people should focus on solving problems they have actually faced that have a "REAL" (tangible) ROI.
There are plenty of good businesses with a crappy website that are solving actual problems.
It's outdated advice in 2025 IMO.
1) We had this methodology for over a decade now. Most of the business models that work with this have been mined out. The features that increase customer sales by 2-3x are the ones that nobody asked for.
2) Building prototypes is cheap. Like easier than making videos or slides. You don't need $100k and a few months to build features anymore.
3) Landing pages, wishlists, and product hunt have become a smell that these guys have no idea what they're doing. They're validating. The docs are incomplete, there's some tutorial videos on a screen that doesn't exist. 2 weeks later, these companies tell me they're pivoting to something agentic that I don't want.
Fuck that. It took us 3 days to build it internally. The logic for SaaS was that it caters for edge cases and maintenance that we don't want to do, but these modern SaaS don't want to do it either. If they knew what they were doing and if they cared, they wouldn't be playing the wishlist game.
Have some confidence in what you build. Do it better than your customers would do with Bolt or Lovable.
1) We had this methodology for over a decade now. Most of the business models that work with this have been mined out. The features that increase customer sales by 2-3x are the ones that nobody asked for.
2) Building prototypes is cheap. Like easier than making videos or slides. You don't need $100k and a few months to build features anymore.
3) Landing pages, wishlists, and product hunt have become a smell that these guys have no idea what they're doing. They're validating. The docs are incomplete, there's some tutorial videos on a screen that doesn't exist. 2 weeks later, these companies tell me they're pivoting to something agentic that I don't want.
Fuck that. It took us 3 days to build it internally. The logic for SaaS was that it caters for edge cases and maintenance that we don't want to do, but these modern SaaS don't want to do it either. If they knew what they were doing and if they cared, they wouldn't be playing the wishlist game.
Have some confidence in what you build. Do it better than your customers would do with Bolt or Lovable.
This was standard advice ten years ago during the Lean Startup era and is startup 101 now. I guess a lot of aspiring founders haven't even read/searched up the basics.
I've worked on enterprise products and that is nowhere near being an adequate simulation of the sales process.
Yeah I didn't describe that in detail, but in short you explain your idea in your landing page, market it in front of your target users. If your able to convert without having anything built that shows strong demand for the product. Does that clear it up?
Where I work we sell subscriptions to (mostly) academic organizations. There is no way these people will go to a web page and subscribe with a credit card, instead they talk to our sales people multiple times, have to talk to other parts of their organization to get the money, often write a bespoke contract, etc.
Similarly I have worked for systems that would sell a highly customized system to a company like Airbus or Comcast or Safety-Kleen and there would be a huge amount of work going into determining what exactly gets sold which again, is not comparable to going to some landing page and paying with a credit card.
If you're selling mattresses or something, maybe that's different.
Similarly I have worked for systems that would sell a highly customized system to a company like Airbus or Comcast or Safety-Kleen and there would be a huge amount of work going into determining what exactly gets sold which again, is not comparable to going to some landing page and paying with a credit card.
If you're selling mattresses or something, maybe that's different.
Even figuring this out is valuable. Say I've got an idea for a hot new academic thing.
I know who needs this, I understand their pain, but its really valuable to understand their procurement process as well. If they need to have sales people as part of the process, I need to know that (and cost it in.)
Talking to my target market, and understanding what it takes for them to pay me, is a big part of understanding if I have a real business idea or not.
I know who needs this, I understand their pain, but its really valuable to understand their procurement process as well. If they need to have sales people as part of the process, I need to know that (and cost it in.)
Talking to my target market, and understanding what it takes for them to pay me, is a big part of understanding if I have a real business idea or not.
I am talking about the realm of startups and products. And yeah some might be skeptic, but a lot of people would if they really could use it.
And that's just a metric you can use to really see if people are interested in your product.
And that's just a metric you can use to really see if people are interested in your product.
The difference is "consumer product" vs "enterprise products". My current employer is certainly not a startup, but I have worked at startups (angel, venture-funded or pre-funded) that worked on enterprise products.
For consumer products what you're saying may make sense, but that is not the universe of all products and opportunities.
For consumer products what you're saying may make sense, but that is not the universe of all products and opportunities.
Yeah I totally get what your saying. Do you happen to be working on a startup right now?
Did you actually read his reply or are you just working from some sort of script?