Western Executives Shaken After Visiting China(slashdot.org)
slashdot.org
Western Executives Shaken After Visiting China
https://slashdot.org/story/25/10/16/006222/western-executives-shaken-after-visiting-china
13 comments
Well, the good news is, Trump has been trying to expand nuclear in the US. Nuclear is so much better than solar, it's not even funny. Solar is going to be remembered as the "also ran" of the 21st century that people tried to use because they were too afraid of nuclear (unjustifiably).
Well, the bad news is that nuclear isn't cheap and "trying" isn't producing results.
60% of new electricity capacity added to US grids (over 30 GW) this year will be solar.
China currently has twice the solar capacity of the US and adding capacity at 3-4x our rate.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65064
60% of new electricity capacity added to US grids (over 30 GW) this year will be solar.
China currently has twice the solar capacity of the US and adding capacity at 3-4x our rate.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=64586
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=65064
Nuclear isn't cheap the way a colonoscopy isn't cheap.
But you're right, we need more nuclear power, just like China. Solar is good but if you think nuclear isn't cheap, wait until you hear about solar.
But you're right, we need more nuclear power, just like China. Solar is good but if you think nuclear isn't cheap, wait until you hear about solar.
They should have been already. I expect China to completely decimate all US legacy automotive brands as electric becomes the dominate car technology unless they somehow step it up big time. Tesla has a chance, Rivian and the other smaller electric brands have a chance, but I’m not optimistic. China is pulling away in battery technology and cost efficiencies.
If they try to rely on protectionism and tarrifs, it will fail. Consumers will demand access to superior products.
If they try to rely on protectionism and tarrifs, it will fail. Consumers will demand access to superior products.
We MUST have high tariffs to protect and rebuild our manufacturing industries and agricultural industry. China can cut us off at any time and it is a major national security threat to be solely dependent on an evil dictatorship using slave labor and insanely bad environmental practices.
The entire west seems delusional about China.
No, western executives aren't shaken by visiting China. Most major car manufacturers build cars in China, the Chinese learned how to build cars from them. The Chinese did not discover some magic way to build cars better than everyone else.
What China does is relentlessly improve. It absolutely has the goal to be totally dominant in all areas of manufacturing. They do this by delivering the highest value product they can. Optimizing production and focusing on their customers.
In the US mechanical and manufacturing engineers are a small niche. Compared to Software they are badly paid, get less benefits (e.g. remote work) and have few promising or ground breaking companies to work for. That is what should be terrifying to everyone. America has no engineering culture and has no manufacturing culture. Pretending otherwise is just deluding oneself.
Here in Germany that manufacturing culture is dying. There are still new engineers, but companies, especially automotive, have stopped hiring and are cutting jobs.
China is in it to win. The west has not even decided that they want to compete. The US is focusing on Software above everything else. Germany is abandoning manufacturing for an uncertain alternative.
No, western executives aren't shaken by visiting China. Most major car manufacturers build cars in China, the Chinese learned how to build cars from them. The Chinese did not discover some magic way to build cars better than everyone else.
What China does is relentlessly improve. It absolutely has the goal to be totally dominant in all areas of manufacturing. They do this by delivering the highest value product they can. Optimizing production and focusing on their customers.
In the US mechanical and manufacturing engineers are a small niche. Compared to Software they are badly paid, get less benefits (e.g. remote work) and have few promising or ground breaking companies to work for. That is what should be terrifying to everyone. America has no engineering culture and has no manufacturing culture. Pretending otherwise is just deluding oneself.
Here in Germany that manufacturing culture is dying. There are still new engineers, but companies, especially automotive, have stopped hiring and are cutting jobs.
China is in it to win. The west has not even decided that they want to compete. The US is focusing on Software above everything else. Germany is abandoning manufacturing for an uncertain alternative.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/USINFO
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp
The US manufacturing sector employs 10x more people than the US information sector.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp
The US manufacturing sector employs 10x more people than the US information sector.
Why would this matter at all?
Almost every single thing you own was manufactured in China. Almost nothing you own is manufactured in America. The US car industry only exists because the US has banned the Chinese competition.
China has 10x the employees in manufacturing. If you remove the areas where Chinese competition is banned, cars and defense, the lead will be even more enormous. Actually look at what part of the US economy is manufacturing. The US is not manufacturing "even though" 1/30 the of the population works in manufacturing.
Also compare the jobs. In Software basically every job is a high paying middle class existence. In manufacturing basically every job is lower class. Studying mechanical engineering in the US is choosing to be a looser.
Almost every single thing you own was manufactured in China. Almost nothing you own is manufactured in America. The US car industry only exists because the US has banned the Chinese competition.
China has 10x the employees in manufacturing. If you remove the areas where Chinese competition is banned, cars and defense, the lead will be even more enormous. Actually look at what part of the US economy is manufacturing. The US is not manufacturing "even though" 1/30 the of the population works in manufacturing.
Also compare the jobs. In Software basically every job is a high paying middle class existence. In manufacturing basically every job is lower class. Studying mechanical engineering in the US is choosing to be a looser.
> Why would this matter at all?
You suggested that it’s a small niche and that the US is focusing entirely on software. That’s obviously not true. It “feels” true because of where the hype is at and because we’re on HN.
> China has 10x the employees in manufacturing
They also have more than a billion more people, about 4x the population.
> Studying mechanical engineering in the US is choosing to be a looser.
I don’t think that’s true but it is true the demand is not as high. Are salaries much higher in China? Of course it’s also true that outside of SF, tech salaries are not impressive. The median salaries are 103k and 138k, for mechanical engineers and software developers respectively, according to the BLS, not really a class difference.
You suggested that it’s a small niche and that the US is focusing entirely on software. That’s obviously not true. It “feels” true because of where the hype is at and because we’re on HN.
> China has 10x the employees in manufacturing
They also have more than a billion more people, about 4x the population.
> Studying mechanical engineering in the US is choosing to be a looser.
I don’t think that’s true but it is true the demand is not as high. Are salaries much higher in China? Of course it’s also true that outside of SF, tech salaries are not impressive. The median salaries are 103k and 138k, for mechanical engineers and software developers respectively, according to the BLS, not really a class difference.
Who cares?
Again: US manufacturing only exists where the government outlaws competition. Namely defense and cars. Everything you own is made in China.
The US is not competing with China at all in manufacturing. This is why labor statistics and salaries do not matter. The US has chosen not to compete.
You are focusing on irrelevant statistics over the actual reality, which is that the US is not competing with China. Ever you own is made in China.
Again: US manufacturing only exists where the government outlaws competition. Namely defense and cars. Everything you own is made in China.
The US is not competing with China at all in manufacturing. This is why labor statistics and salaries do not matter. The US has chosen not to compete.
You are focusing on irrelevant statistics over the actual reality, which is that the US is not competing with China. Ever you own is made in China.
I live within an hours drive of multiple (at least four) factories that aren’t producing defense or car products. I’m sure there’s more I don’t know about.
I have a Chapman set sitting on my desk right now. I bought it because someone else had one and I was really impressed with the quality.
This level of hyperbole doesn’t do any good. I agree America needs to work to strengthen the manufacturing sector but pretending it’s all over and all gone is absurd.
I have a Chapman set sitting on my desk right now. I bought it because someone else had one and I was really impressed with the quality.
This level of hyperbole doesn’t do any good. I agree America needs to work to strengthen the manufacturing sector but pretending it’s all over and all gone is absurd.
>but pretending it’s all over and all gone is absurd
Exactly, that was the point of my original post. I am not saying that it is over (which was the claim of the article). I am saying the US is not even competing. The delusion I was talking about is that people either believe that China is a magical place where everything is made and which is unbeatable in every way OR that American manufacturing has no problems, that it is actually superior and that China only produces low quality trash which nobody needs. Bother beliefs directly lead to the same conclusion, namely that nothing should change. Either because it is futile or because doing so is a waste of resources.
If America wanted to compete it could. But that would mean massive onshoring efforts and training millions of people to work in factories. This is not an option it is a necessity to bring back manufacturing, because it would need to be brought back.
Exactly, that was the point of my original post. I am not saying that it is over (which was the claim of the article). I am saying the US is not even competing. The delusion I was talking about is that people either believe that China is a magical place where everything is made and which is unbeatable in every way OR that American manufacturing has no problems, that it is actually superior and that China only produces low quality trash which nobody needs. Bother beliefs directly lead to the same conclusion, namely that nothing should change. Either because it is futile or because doing so is a waste of resources.
If America wanted to compete it could. But that would mean massive onshoring efforts and training millions of people to work in factories. This is not an option it is a necessity to bring back manufacturing, because it would need to be brought back.
It's too late and our politically motivated leadership is only making the issue worse.
Everything the USA is suppressing, China is promoting. For example, education and renewable energy.
The USA is investing heavily in AI but divesting in the cheap energy it needs to become viable.
Strategy wise, it makes no sense --- mostly due to political influence from vested interests.