Ask HN: What can be done to fix package delivery?
43 comments
At higher end apartments in Tokyo (which is ridiculously well-served already with regards to delivering packages -- ask me if you're curious), this is often solved with a series of electronically controlled lockers in the apartment foyer.
The local equivalent of FedEx comes and buzzes your room. If you're not there, they walk over to the locker, which explains its operation (though they've been here before and know it already):
a) Type in the room number.
b) Our machine will pick a door to pop open.
c) Place your package over the sensor in the middle of the locker. Close the door.
d) We'll print you a receipt.
The user-facing process is pretty simple, too: the control unit has a list of rooms with packages available. If you're on the list, you punch in your room number, hit Go, punch in your PIN (set up for you when you moved in), hit Go, and the appropriate doors pop open. You remove the package and close the door.
This machine costs, my guesstimate, $4k and takes up approximately 15 ~ 20 sq feet of floor space to service an apartment building with ~50 doors.
(If you want to search for more information about them, and can read Japanese, the magic word is 宅配ボックス)
Another option quite popular here for young salarymen is convenience store delivery, where you tell Amazon "Ship it to the convenience store closest to my house." They're open 24 hours, take delivery of the parcel whenever it arrives, and hold it for you until it is convenient for you to stop by. This is free to the customer. (It costs the convenience store nothing to offer at the margin, and they really, really want to get you in the habit of going to "your" store as opposed to going to one of their numerous competitors located as far as several hundred feet away.)
The local equivalent of FedEx comes and buzzes your room. If you're not there, they walk over to the locker, which explains its operation (though they've been here before and know it already):
a) Type in the room number.
b) Our machine will pick a door to pop open.
c) Place your package over the sensor in the middle of the locker. Close the door.
d) We'll print you a receipt.
The user-facing process is pretty simple, too: the control unit has a list of rooms with packages available. If you're on the list, you punch in your room number, hit Go, punch in your PIN (set up for you when you moved in), hit Go, and the appropriate doors pop open. You remove the package and close the door.
This machine costs, my guesstimate, $4k and takes up approximately 15 ~ 20 sq feet of floor space to service an apartment building with ~50 doors.
(If you want to search for more information about them, and can read Japanese, the magic word is 宅配ボックス)
Another option quite popular here for young salarymen is convenience store delivery, where you tell Amazon "Ship it to the convenience store closest to my house." They're open 24 hours, take delivery of the parcel whenever it arrives, and hold it for you until it is convenient for you to stop by. This is free to the customer. (It costs the convenience store nothing to offer at the margin, and they really, really want to get you in the habit of going to "your" store as opposed to going to one of their numerous competitors located as far as several hundred feet away.)
Your robot package cabinets are more or less exactly what Amazon has deployed as "Amazon Lockers" [1] at least in the Seattle area. It works remarkably well for normal-sized packages. They are popular enough in "walkable" parts of the city that some of them are routinely full.
Shortsighted placement has occasionally put them in shopping mall interiors that are not 24/7, despite having a 24/7 grocery store in the complex... Hopefully these issues will be ironed out in time.
[1] http://goo.gl/fZNqmH <-- Links to Amazon.com
Shortsighted placement has occasionally put them in shopping mall interiors that are not 24/7, despite having a 24/7 grocery store in the complex... Hopefully these issues will be ironed out in time.
[1] http://goo.gl/fZNqmH <-- Links to Amazon.com
"ridiculously well-served already with regards to delivering packages" ... is this the locker? If not, Im curious ! More plz!
Here in Australia our national post organization (Australia Post) has started rolling out 宅配ボックス:
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=australia+post+lockers&tb...
They are fantastic, emails arrive telling you there is a package waiting to be picked up, when you get to the locker input your phone # and scan the barcode within the email or enter the barcode #. Voila. After mail is picked up another email is sent confirming that the mail has been picked up.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=australia+post+lockers&tb...
They are fantastic, emails arrive telling you there is a package waiting to be picked up, when you get to the locker input your phone # and scan the barcode within the email or enter the barcode #. Voila. After mail is picked up another email is sent confirming that the mail has been picked up.
> (which is ridiculously well-served already with regards to delivering packages -- ask me if you're curious)
I'm very curious!!
I'm very curious!!
This is one of those problems that goes away entirely if you work from home.
Pretty much everything I buy apart from groceries comes from Amazon. Here in England, that means it arrives the next day regardless of what shipping method you ask for, and since there's always somebody here, it just plain works.
As tech folk, remote work is more workable every year. I suspect the long term solution to your problem will be that you pick up a remote gig too. (as will everybody else)
Pretty much everything I buy apart from groceries comes from Amazon. Here in England, that means it arrives the next day regardless of what shipping method you ask for, and since there's always somebody here, it just plain works.
As tech folk, remote work is more workable every year. I suspect the long term solution to your problem will be that you pick up a remote gig too. (as will everybody else)
What fraction of jobs can be worked from home? Lots, but definitely not all.
Of course I'm a proponent of automating all jobs and switching to a leisure economy, which would fix the problem too and in a similar way, but I'm considering the near term here.
Of course I'm a proponent of automating all jobs and switching to a leisure economy, which would fix the problem too and in a similar way, but I'm considering the near term here.
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It goes away if you have an office job too, as you can just have packages delivered to your office during the day. (Unless your company has a really grumpy receptionist.)
FedEx has a feature called "Delivery Manager" that allows you to specify the delivery time more specifically. You can also reroute your package to get it delivered to another destination. Both of these options come with a small additional cost.
If you're looking for a free option, you can reroute your package to a FedEx location like a FedEx office or distribution center and pick it up from there. I use this during the holidays to keep people from grabbing packages off my porch.
As far as technological solutions, FedEx also offers delivery notification. You can get an email or text when your package hits your front porch.
http://www.fedex.com/us/delivery/
I can only really speak to FedEx. I'm sure UPS, DHL, etc. offer similar options.
If you're looking for a free option, you can reroute your package to a FedEx location like a FedEx office or distribution center and pick it up from there. I use this during the holidays to keep people from grabbing packages off my porch.
As far as technological solutions, FedEx also offers delivery notification. You can get an email or text when your package hits your front porch.
http://www.fedex.com/us/delivery/
I can only really speak to FedEx. I'm sure UPS, DHL, etc. offer similar options.
Just this past week, I needed/wanted to pick up a package at distribution centers. One was FexEx, other UPS. All they really needed was photo ID, doortag, and signature.
> I can only really speak to FedEx. I'm sure UPS, DHL, etc. offer similar options.
They do.
They do.
UPS has something like this. You can configure options using My UPS like "always allow the driver to leave the package at my door", etc., and you can login and divert a package that's in transit to a new location (like your office). The things that make it suck are:
1. They charge for at least some of these features, at a level that I personally consider unreasonable
and
2. The UX for managing this stuff is pretty bad, at least last time I looked.
1. They charge for at least some of these features, at a level that I personally consider unreasonable
and
2. The UX for managing this stuff is pretty bad, at least last time I looked.
Check out a startup called Doorman: http://www.doorman.co/
I heard about them awhile back and they are trying to solve this very problem.
I heard about them awhile back and they are trying to solve this very problem.
The easiest solution is to have a neutral location where the package can be securely placed by the distributor/deliverer, and retrieved by the user. Amazon Locker and other services provide this. Edit: It looks like Bufferbox got bought by Google and then eventually shut down. Maybe there aren't many services like this.
Many workplaces will allow you to receive packages there; some would rather have that instead of having you work remotely. This is somewhat common, especially in smaller companies, where there isn't a dedicated shipping clerk or mailroom staff.
Another common option is to have someone available to accept the package, have them store it, and give it to you when you are available. This type of service ranges from apartments with staffed rental offices, to mailbox stores, to roommates and housemates, to friendly neighbors.
A less-common option is to pay for a large mailbox at a Post Office or 3rd-party mailbox store, and have all packages delivered there. The Post Office won't be able to sign for packages from parcel companies, but the 3rd-party mailbox stores usually can - sometimes you have to sign a waiver so they can.
Drone delivery is a fun option to consider, but it's a regulatory nightmare currently. Items such as licensing, insurance, liability, property damage, personally identifiable information (PII) and privacy, airspace laws, and criminal activity all have to be settled before we can realistically consider an automated delivery.
Scheduling deliveries is going to be very expensive, especially during the high (vehicular) traffic times when most people are both at their homes and still awake. There are too many cars on the roads to make this viable, delivering packages during the day is just a lot easier. If more people worked alternate schedules, this problem would be lessened, but alternate schedules impact human health.
Many workplaces will allow you to receive packages there; some would rather have that instead of having you work remotely. This is somewhat common, especially in smaller companies, where there isn't a dedicated shipping clerk or mailroom staff.
Another common option is to have someone available to accept the package, have them store it, and give it to you when you are available. This type of service ranges from apartments with staffed rental offices, to mailbox stores, to roommates and housemates, to friendly neighbors.
A less-common option is to pay for a large mailbox at a Post Office or 3rd-party mailbox store, and have all packages delivered there. The Post Office won't be able to sign for packages from parcel companies, but the 3rd-party mailbox stores usually can - sometimes you have to sign a waiver so they can.
Drone delivery is a fun option to consider, but it's a regulatory nightmare currently. Items such as licensing, insurance, liability, property damage, personally identifiable information (PII) and privacy, airspace laws, and criminal activity all have to be settled before we can realistically consider an automated delivery.
Scheduling deliveries is going to be very expensive, especially during the high (vehicular) traffic times when most people are both at their homes and still awake. There are too many cars on the roads to make this viable, delivering packages during the day is just a lot easier. If more people worked alternate schedules, this problem would be lessened, but alternate schedules impact human health.
Amazon won't let you deliver to lockers if the item isn't available for next day dispatch, because lockers as they're currently implemented mean that a place gets reserved for your object, and it sits vacant until something arrives.
One other issue with this is that plenty of overly paranoid sellers demand that shipping address equals billing address.
One other issue with this is that plenty of overly paranoid sellers demand that shipping address equals billing address.
Evening delivery is not a bad idea. Less traffic would could compress the time needed to run a route.
I would like to see notifications for when the package is five minutes out, so I can meet the driver at the curb.
My short-term solution is to have packages come to my work.
I would like to see notifications for when the package is five minutes out, so I can meet the driver at the curb.
My short-term solution is to have packages come to my work.
Or even true night time delivery (time window from 9 pm to 6 am, say).
Downside, waking up for the doorbell. Upside, you will be in.
Downside, waking up for the doorbell. Upside, you will be in.
Amazon's solution where I live is to build lockers in 7-Eleven. It works for packages no wider than my chest and no taller than my head. Also, if you live in an apartment then your rental office may hold the package for you.
UPS will allow you to have packages delivered to The UPS Store if you buy a mailbox. Additionally UPS will allow you to redirect the package to their Will Call window at the destination processing facility. Will Call requires you to show up during regular business hours, but it's more convenient than waiting at home.
The only downside to Will Call is that, in order to use it the carrier has to have attempted a delivery. You might be able to get the shipper to hold the package at the nearest facility, prior to its arrival, but some shippers won't do that because it's usually a sign of fraud.
I'm less familiar with the other services.
UPS will allow you to have packages delivered to The UPS Store if you buy a mailbox. Additionally UPS will allow you to redirect the package to their Will Call window at the destination processing facility. Will Call requires you to show up during regular business hours, but it's more convenient than waiting at home.
The only downside to Will Call is that, in order to use it the carrier has to have attempted a delivery. You might be able to get the shipper to hold the package at the nearest facility, prior to its arrival, but some shippers won't do that because it's usually a sign of fraud.
I'm less familiar with the other services.
The classic solution is to hire somebody to stand in your building's entrance as a full-time job. Maybe not practical if you live in a single family home.
Also not practical if you live in a regular town house that has been converted to apartments. There's a minimum size of an apartment building where a concierge is not a complete waste of money, and it's probably somewhere in the small-skyscraper range.
I believe the even more classic solution would be to hire someone to answer your door and manage your servants. There's no reason for a single family estate to have a doorman, but plenty have butlers.
In Germany, the Deutsche Post owned DHL operates Packstations ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packstation ), secure automated lockers distributed around cities. You can set that a location, and a package will be delivered there. You'll get a SMS with a PIN to go along to later to get your package. It's designed to solve the problem you raise.
> Physical parcels are nearly always delivered nowadays by a system where a driver will turn up on a working weekday, at an entirely undefined hour or in a very wide time window, and expect a signature or at least a human to accept the parcel, immediately, or they take the parcel and go away again.
Have them deliver the package to where you work.
Clearly this doesn't solve the problem for everyone (e.g. if you work in construction, FedEx might not be able to deliver to a construction site), but it does solve a large swath of issues.
Not all companies will let you receive personal packages, especially the larger companies with dedicated mail handling, but it does get you closer.
Have them deliver the package to where you work.
Clearly this doesn't solve the problem for everyone (e.g. if you work in construction, FedEx might not be able to deliver to a construction site), but it does solve a large swath of issues.
Not all companies will let you receive personal packages, especially the larger companies with dedicated mail handling, but it does get you closer.
Also not all packages are things you want delivered to where you work. For example if you are transgender and not out at work, and buying clothes.
Deliver packages to your workplace.
The foot of the building is a common pick-up place where I work. The delivery person sends an automated text message when they arrive with a 10 minute pickup limit, and they'll call you after 5 minutes asking where you are. Calls and messages are recorded on their phone, so if you delegate someone to pick it up, or don't show up yourself, there's an audit trail.
Tracking works well for both parties, as they know where the package was within ~2 hour intervals and then where/when to expect it.
If that doesn't work, send to the local post office or pickup-station.
This problem is solved.
The foot of the building is a common pick-up place where I work. The delivery person sends an automated text message when they arrive with a 10 minute pickup limit, and they'll call you after 5 minutes asking where you are. Calls and messages are recorded on their phone, so if you delegate someone to pick it up, or don't show up yourself, there's an audit trail.
Tracking works well for both parties, as they know where the package was within ~2 hour intervals and then where/when to expect it.
If that doesn't work, send to the local post office or pickup-station.
This problem is solved.
Quite a lot of companies will only ship to the cardholder address, unfortunately.
You can add additional addresses to your card. Just call and ask. I have several on file for my Discover and American Express cards.
We're solving this over at Gophr.it for the courier industries with planned, GPS tracked delivery where you have direct contact with the person bringing your parcel to your door - In London and eventually, the world. The delivery industry is the next space we want to move into once we build a solid foundation and we've got a big bullseye marked on the "No one home at X time" problem.
We're also hiring a graduate sales exec in London if anyone wants to help solve this issue with us! (Email in my profile)
We're also hiring a graduate sales exec in London if anyone wants to help solve this issue with us! (Email in my profile)
I wonder if some sort of app could be released that you put on your phone, and now the delivery company knows where you are, and they can send it to there (or early-abort a delivery attempt if you are out of diversion range). And they can use the app to ping you that a delivery is imminent and please come down and collect it.
Parcel (https://www.fromparcel.com/) attempts to alleviate these issues. When you sign up with Parcel you are given an address to ship your packages to and when the packages arrive you receive a text asking you what is the most convenient time to drop it off at your home. It is $5 per package.
Unfortunately it is NYC only for now.
Unfortunately it is NYC only for now.
In NYC, I never lived in a doorman building, so I would rely on the delivery service's solution. For the USPS, they leave a slip and you can go pick up the package on Saturday. For UPS, you can have the package rerouted to a UPS store. For FedEx... you should have the package resent.
In my apartment complex, a front-locked door blocks the entry foyer area. Packages are just dropped off in a pile in this area, so I'm guessing usps/ups/fedex have a key somehow.
That isn't perfect (your immediate neighbors still have access), but I'm actually happy with this compromise.
That isn't perfect (your immediate neighbors still have access), but I'm actually happy with this compromise.
People don't deliver stuff to their places of work?
That's what I do. Never seems to be an issue for anyone.
That's what I do. Never seems to be an issue for anyone.
This is what I usually do as well. If it's something small, it's easy. Occasionally I get something specifically for my home, for example, a new computer monitor. I generally don't want to lug that around from work to home, so getting it dropped off at my apartment is just easier.
I work for a company that is solving this problem. We sell electronically controlled locker banks that the carriers deliver to: http://luxerone.com
Amazon, Audi and DHL are offering a new service where you can get DHL to deliver parcels to your car. The driver gets a temporary keyless entry to your car to leave the parcel.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/23/amazon-del...
There is also Shuttl, which delivers locally within 90 minutes and you can track the driver/rider by GPS to pretty much get an exact delivery time. It's limited to certain distances and parcel sizes though.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/apr/23/amazon-del...
There is also Shuttl, which delivers locally within 90 minutes and you can track the driver/rider by GPS to pretty much get an exact delivery time. It's limited to certain distances and parcel sizes though.
There are some services out there that have a model I really like. You deliver packages to your mailbox with them, and, when you're ready they deliver it to you in roughly an hour window. e.g. Parcel, Doorman
I pay something on the order of $3 a month to a retail location that accepts my packages through the day, signs for them, and securely stores them.
I can then either go pick them up on the way to work or on Saturday. This also works for certified mail and they provide very discounted mailing/shipping services.
This seems like a solved problem to me.
I can then either go pick them up on the way to work or on Saturday. This also works for certified mail and they provide very discounted mailing/shipping services.
This seems like a solved problem to me.
> Physical parcels are nearly always delivered nowadays by a system where a driver will turn up on a working weekday, at an entirely undefined hour or in a very wide time window, and expect a signature or at least a human to accept the parcel, immediately, or they take the parcel and go away again.
Really? Most delivery services either default to no-signature-required or provide an option; requiring a human or signature seems to be the exception not the norm.
Really? Most delivery services either default to no-signature-required or provide an option; requiring a human or signature seems to be the exception not the norm.
I think this is location dependent. I live on a farm: packages are left at the front door or inside any vehicle in the driveway if it's raining.
However, when I lived in the city, UPS/Fedex would often refuse to leave packages at the front door.
However, when I lived in the city, UPS/Fedex would often refuse to leave packages at the front door.
It used to seem to be that most UPS/FedEx deliveries of were signature-required, it seems to be the norm (default option with most online orders delivered by those vendors) now that they are not (though both do still offer delivery that is signature confirmed.) Definitely a change over the last couple decades, but I don't think its an urban/rural thing (I've lived in various parts of Northern California suburbia throughout the change.)
Google Express has this as an explicit option in their order flow.
Google Express has this as an explicit option in their order flow.
Physical parcels are nearly always delivered nowadays by a system where a driver will turn up on a working weekday, at an entirely undefined hour or in a very wide time window, and expect a signature or at least a human to accept the parcel, immediately, or they take the parcel and go away again.
Clearly, this system was thought up when you could reasonably expect that every house would have that convenient utility, a "housewife", more or less trapped in the house 24/7 and therefore a highly reliable delivery target, For various reasons ranging from "everybody works" to "large numbers of people living alone" to "sexism is bad", this assumption is completely broken in the 21st century.
It's not plausible for recipients to take a whole day off work to receive a packet. Let alone several, if the deliverer is sloppy. (Could the window be narrowed by precise driving plans?)
It's not plausible for deliverers to be willing to deliver every packet on a weekend. (Could delivery at night be a thing?)
It's not secure for the packet to be dropped in front of your door unsupervised or given to a random neighbor. (Could we automatically divert it to where we work?)
How can we fix it, realistically, and soon?