+1 - Browsh is one of the most amazing pieces of software I've come across in the past few years.
I've found that using Browsh together with mosh and tmux, you can get a surprisingly functional remote desktop experience. I've found it especially handy in cases when "normal" remote desktop is too slow, e.g. when tethered to mobile data connection or using an underpowered client device.
> The full lockdown you are advocating for could cause significantly more devastation than it prevents.
The financial hit will be very real, but there can and will be mitigations down the line. What do you think are the chances that city, state and federal governments are all just going to let people starve in their homes? For example, the California state government has promised to keep paying teachers and school staff despite school closures. Not to mention companies, organizations and individuals. Many tech companies are continuing to pay maintenance staff despite office closures, for example.
As for the devastation that it prevents - well, many unnecessary deaths. The government might be able to pay you a portion of lost wages, give you a loan or reduce your taxes this year, but it can't bring back your loved ones if they die from the coronavirus.
> I'd be surprised if a majority of people actually did that
There are always going to be idiots and morons. But I think if cases and deaths skyrocket over the next few weeks, as is currently expected, the number of people flouting the quarantine is going to go down pretty dramatically. Not only will people become more aware of the risk, but more businesses will be closed so there's less incentive (e.g. all bars and clubs closed in several states, Starbucks is now takeout-only in some places, attractions like Disneyland closing down etc).
I don't think anyone is suggesting that the situation in Italy is 100% accurately "going to replicate in most places". It's only an example to warn us of the kind of human tragedy that could happen if we don't get our sh*t together in the US.
No one cares if the theoretically more accurate number really should be 20K cases and not 50K cases in 10 days. The point is we need to act NOW rather than 10 days later. As Dr. Fauci said, it's probably better for us to be overreacting at this point than under-reacting. [1]
If you're young and healthy, I can totally see how a lock down might feel worse than the risk of getting the coronavirus.
But it's not just about you. It's about the elderly, the sick, the weak around you. Even if you end up fine after getting the disease, you're going to transmit it to other people, directly or indirectly, who may end up dying because of you. That's what R0 is about.
So yeah, a lock down will suck for you, but I hope it makes you feel better to know that it will help save someone else's life.
Well, for most people losing their family would feel way worse.
There are many ways to mitigate the economic impact down the line. Governments at all levels, companies and organization are already helping blunt the impact. For example, the California state government has promised to keep paying teachers and school staff. Many tech companies are continuing to pay maintenance staff despite office closures. NBA players have donated to arena staff affected by cancellations.
> Young People at the lowest risk from this virus are going to be much worse off than just catching a fucking bad cold.
It's not a "fucking bad cold" for young people.
- Over 50% of ICU patients in Netherlands from COVID-19 are under 50. [1]
- Over 50% of ICU patients in France are under 60. [2]
- Over 40% of patients requiring hospitalization in China were under 50. [3]
Young people are not invincible. The fact that they can use up a significant chunk of already scarce medical resources suggests that we really shouldn't be sending that message and encouraging young people to not give a sh*t about the epidemic.
Governments at all levels, companies and non-profits can (and I don't doubt will) help mitigate the financial hit in the months and years ahead. The California state government has for example promised to keep paying teachers and school staff. [1] Many tech companies for example are continuing to pay maintenance staff despite office closures. [2] NBA players have donated to arena staff affected by cancellations. [3]
But there is nothing anyone can do to bring back our loved ones.
First of all, let's be clear that flattening the curve WILL save lives, even if the same number of people ultimately get exposed to the virus. Not only will we avoid overrunning hospitals, we also buy ourselves valuable time to ramp up production on equipment like ventilators, necessary medicine and protective gear, find better treatments and cures, and perhaps develop a vaccine.
So, is saving lives worth the economic impact? I think the answer is very simple.
- If we can reduce / avoid overloading hospitals, people who get it after the lockdown will get better treatment and will be less likely to die than if they got it now.
- Over time, we will come up with more effective treatments and perhaps a vaccine. We will likely also have more equipment like ventilators and protective gear at our disposal.
- More people will have had it and built up some level of immunity, and "herd immunity" means it will not spread as quickly.
Many older people cannot just stop getting medical care, and by doing so will be exposed to COVID-19. Especially because hospitals and clinics are overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients.
> The nursing home could stock up and ban people from coming in or out of it.
And all the nursing home staff will be locked inside and not leave for months? Where do they sleep / shower etc?None of the nursing home staff have families or children to care for?
Older people cannot just wall themselves off from the rest of society.
What if they live with or are cared for by other family members?
How will they get health care for existing conditions? Hospitals have been shown to be a major vector for transmission [1]. And how do they even get to the hospital if they can't drive?
What about grocery shopping over the next few months? The National Guard is stepping in to help deliver food in New Rochelle now. Can that scale to the entire nation? For how long?
What if they live in a nursing home? Look what happened in the Seattle one [2].
It's not just about your health or your life. This is what R0 means - even if you end up fine after getting the disease, you're going to transmit it to other people who may end up dying because of you.
In other words, it's also your liberty vs other people's lives.
Are you going to be the grandson who kills his grandma? Or the employee who kills the CEO? Or the Trump supporter who ends up helping elect Biden?
Sure, the actual number will likely be different for each country / state / city, but doesn't really matter for the sake of the argument. I was using 1% as a lowball number. Official mortality rate from the WHO is 3-4%; some studies say 2%, Italy is reporting 7%.
And for those 80+, current data suggests a mortality rate of 1/7 - not far off from a round of Russian roulette.
So if you have 4 grandparents who are 80+, there's a ~60% chance at least one will die if the disease spreads through our population in the next few months.
> The mortality is mainly for 70+ years old people, who are already not in the workforce anymore.
Firstly, if hospitals are overrun (which is the way we're headed), people of all ages will die preventable deaths. Hospitals in the US are already postponing elective surgeries.
Secondly, it's simply not true that older people don't contribute to the economy.
The elderly still consume food, housing, health care etc., and a negative demand shock is a recipe for recession. For example, think about what happens to nursing homes or physical therapists if a large percentage of older people die. Or what happens to local housing prices if lots of homes are suddenly put up for sale because elderly owners died en masse.
And many older people continue to work and volunteer (e.g. just look at our president, congressmen, and senators), and that some grandparents help with child care (like in my family right now).
And there aren't severe human consequences from millions of people dying in the next few months? Easy to say when you don't seriously have to face the possibility of your parents and grandparents dying, I guess. Remember that the mortality rate for people 80+ is 1/7, which isn't far from a game of Russian roulette.
Plus, all the school districts that have shut down so far have continued to offer meals for students AFAIK.
Because it worked. Millions of lives have been saved - 1% of 1.3B is 13M people. That's 1/5 of Italy.
Are there better models? Maybe. But there are also much worse models, as I suspect we might soon find out in the US [1]. Personally I'd much rather take the Chinese model for the next few months than risk me and my family dying or going bankrupt over the next few months.
And, instead of thinking that China could "afford to take the economical hit", consider the economic impact of 13M people suddenly dying. At this point, there's definitely going to be a hit to the economy. It's just going to be either A) from stricter lock downs and government aid, or B) from more people dying due to overrun hospitals. It might not be a wash in terms of the dollar amount, but it's clear which option will save more lives.
[1] Comparing China and US response:
- China has made treatment (not just testing) for coronavirus free for everyone. In the US...better hope you have good insurance.
- Tests performed per million people: China 2,800, US 5
- China is ordering banks to increase loans to SMBs rather than hoarding cash to protect themselves. It has rolled out a bunch of policies to support SMBs and employees. The US...well, not much so far.
The economy is going to be hit either way, it's just a choice between A) a lock down but most people staying alive and healthy or B) lots of people dying or sick and an overrun health care system.
Maybe we don't know which one will have bigger impact on the economy, but we know for sure which one will lead to more human suffering.
People will grasp at any excuse to convince themselves "it'll be fine, it won't happen to me". The fact it started in China made it easy - the Chinese government must be overreacting because it's authoritarian, it's halfway across the world, my government must have gotten this figured out, my health care system must be better than China's, etc etc. And of course the classic "it's just a flu".
It's sad that so many will suffer and die because of this.
I've found that using Browsh together with mosh and tmux, you can get a surprisingly functional remote desktop experience. I've found it especially handy in cases when "normal" remote desktop is too slow, e.g. when tethered to mobile data connection or using an underpowered client device.