GoldBack – Currency With Actual Gold In Bills That Can Be Used Anywhere(goldback.com)
goldback.com
GoldBack – Currency With Actual Gold In Bills That Can Be Used Anywhere
https://goldback.com/
26 comments
> 50% of people would find it interesting and say, yeah, sure, I’ll take that
And then when they hear that possessing physical gold will complicate their tax returns, they'll change their mind right away.
A more precise percentage of businesses interested in actually accepting Goldbacks is 0%.
And then when they hear that possessing physical gold will complicate their tax returns, they'll change their mind right away.
A more precise percentage of businesses interested in actually accepting Goldbacks is 0%.
Gold and silver are considered legal tender in Utah. There is no capital gains tax when you barter with it or exchange it for federal reserve notes.
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title59/Chapter12/59-12-S104.html?...
https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title59/Chapter12/59-12-S104.html?...
It's 2020. I would have hoped it's a keyfob device that can dispense laminated gold pellets to a terminal that can verify the value of each pellet. And that anybody can manufacture the pellets.
I can't find this on their site, but how are they preventing people from taking the gold out of the bills and recirculating them?
Doesn't entirely answer your question but this was in the faqs:
Can the Goldback be counterfeited?
Not anytime soon. It took Valaurum over twenty years to develop the technology to create the Goldback and they have no competitors. Much of the technology is protected by trade secrets and patents.
There are several anti-counterfeiting features on the Goldback, first, the negative image on the back can be felt. Second, no other material will glisten like gold does and no one else can do the vacuum deposition process with gold. Third, many of the design features on the front are government level.
Additional security features may be introduced in the future. As it stands we are about 20 years ahead of the counterfeiters.
You can check your Goldback by looking at the serial # on the front and verifying it is the same # on the reverse.
Can the Goldback be counterfeited?
Not anytime soon. It took Valaurum over twenty years to develop the technology to create the Goldback and they have no competitors. Much of the technology is protected by trade secrets and patents.
There are several anti-counterfeiting features on the Goldback, first, the negative image on the back can be felt. Second, no other material will glisten like gold does and no one else can do the vacuum deposition process with gold. Third, many of the design features on the front are government level.
Additional security features may be introduced in the future. As it stands we are about 20 years ahead of the counterfeiters.
You can check your Goldback by looking at the serial # on the front and verifying it is the same # on the reverse.
> You can check your Goldback by looking at the serial # on the front and verifying it is the same # on the reverse.
Let me get this straight. They print one number on one side. Then, on the other side, they have managed to print the exact same number. The same number on both sides. How could they have that kind of technology? How could one side of the goldback possibly know what's on the other? It's witchcraft.
Let me get this straight. They print one number on one side. Then, on the other side, they have managed to print the exact same number. The same number on both sides. How could they have that kind of technology? How could one side of the goldback possibly know what's on the other? It's witchcraft.
I was mildly interested in the project when it appeared on HN/Boing Boing the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24237970 . That mild interest has now morphed into a glowing, white hot desire to give Goldbacks a very wide berth.
I'm guessing that they have a patent on "same number on both sides."
> Second, no other material will glisten like gold
Isn’t there a famous phrase for this? All that glitters isn’t gold? What are the specific glistening properties that only gold has?
Isn’t there a famous phrase for this? All that glitters isn’t gold? What are the specific glistening properties that only gold has?
You can literally go on Amazon right now and buy imitation gold foil for 1/10th the price of “real” gold foil and the only reason it’s 1/10th the price is because most of the “real” gold foil is also imitation and not food safe and all the reviews warn you it’s impossible to tell the difference without a chemistry test.
Not sure that's the question the original commenter was asking. My interpretation of it was, what would prevent someone from taking the gold out of the Goldback and selling that gold, if it's worth more in dollars?
That's 419-level "put out some bullshit to scary away the non rube costumers".
It certainly seems like an interesting and somewhat practical idea, assuming that it is indeed impossible to counterfeit. How does one go about turning this back into gold? Will burning it work?
25-50% acceptance seems extremely high acceptance rate for businesses accepting them. I bet if I asked 100 businesses in my town, less than 5 would even know what this is. I didn’t know what this is until 5 minutes ago and I buy actual gold.
> Outside of the State of Utah Goldbacks can also be spent. In Oregon at a farmers market the Goldback had a about a 25% acceptance rate among business owners. This was based off of 40 vendors.
What's "about 25%" of 40? About 10? 9 vendors who said "I guess" and that guy over there who wasn't a flat out "no"?
What's "about 25%" of 40? About 10? 9 vendors who said "I guess" and that guy over there who wasn't a flat out "no"?
I'd accept a goldback. Maybe even 10. Same as I'd accept barter for anything interesting.
But not 100 or more.
But not 100 or more.
I thought the same, so assume this was the acceptance rate when pitching the idea to small business owners.
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> The actual creation cost of the Goldback is currently around $1,000 per ounce of gold (or 1,000 Goldbacks). We add 10% to the total price for retailers in order to come up with the minimum exchange rate. You can calculate the exchange yourself with this formula: Spot gold + $1,000 + 10%
Spot gold is $1,942, so the fraction of the value of the bill that is gold is 1942/3236 =~ 60%. So 1/10 of your investment goes away immediately, and 1/3 is in a pretty certificate that is not likely to appreciate.
These may be good for small transactions after the apocalypse but they aren't a good way to invest in gold or to store value.
Spot gold is $1,942, so the fraction of the value of the bill that is gold is 1942/3236 =~ 60%. So 1/10 of your investment goes away immediately, and 1/3 is in a pretty certificate that is not likely to appreciate.
These may be good for small transactions after the apocalypse but they aren't a good way to invest in gold or to store value.
I'm more convinced that Silver would be a superior coin in the apocalypse. 1 Oz Silver is $35, and drop down to 1/10th oz denominations for $4 per 0.1 oz right now. Like, literally right now, you can buy these everywhere.
No complications or certificates. Its just silver. Pretty straight forward.
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Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel so much? Gold is used for large transactions. The more common silver and copper coins will be used for smaller transactions.
Under knowledge of modern economics (which should remain true after the apocalypse), we'll know to NOT tie the value of gold, silver, and copper together. But we also know gold/silver/copper ratios won't change dramatically.
No complications or certificates. Its just silver. Pretty straight forward.
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Why are we trying to reinvent the wheel so much? Gold is used for large transactions. The more common silver and copper coins will be used for smaller transactions.
Under knowledge of modern economics (which should remain true after the apocalypse), we'll know to NOT tie the value of gold, silver, and copper together. But we also know gold/silver/copper ratios won't change dramatically.
A big issue with any precious metal as primary unit of exchange is trust that the coin is what it claims it is. The trust isn’t just a given it’s a continuation of the trust in the minting government to mint good coins and to pursue counterfeiters and the difficulty at the time of making quality coins.
Gold is decent for it but not so much now that we can easily gold electroplate a thick layer on to any metal to pass a cursory acid test. Silver has the added downside that it tarnishes easily.
Gold is decent for it but not so much now that we can easily gold electroplate a thick layer on to any metal to pass a cursory acid test. Silver has the added downside that it tarnishes easily.
There are also widely available acid-tests for silver. There are also electrical-conductivity, thermal-conductivity tests (both gold and silver are superior electrical and thermal conductors), and weight / density tests.
They all can be defeated one-at-a-time. Gold can have tungsten drilled into it for example (beating acid tests and weight tests), but that won't beat the thermal conductivity test because tungsten won't transfer the heat out as quickly.
> Silver has the added downside that it tarnishes easily.
And gold doesn't retain its shape. The solution to "tarnishing" issues (or in the case of gold: losing their shape), is to use 90% coins instead of 100% coins. The 10% alloy will be sufficient to reduce tarnishing, add structural stability, or whatever.
For example, a 1oz American Gold coin weighs 1.09 Oz.
They all can be defeated one-at-a-time. Gold can have tungsten drilled into it for example (beating acid tests and weight tests), but that won't beat the thermal conductivity test because tungsten won't transfer the heat out as quickly.
> Silver has the added downside that it tarnishes easily.
And gold doesn't retain its shape. The solution to "tarnishing" issues (or in the case of gold: losing their shape), is to use 90% coins instead of 100% coins. The 10% alloy will be sufficient to reduce tarnishing, add structural stability, or whatever.
For example, a 1oz American Gold coin weighs 1.09 Oz.
The issue isn't so much the existence of tests as it is the friction the uncertainty introduces to commerce. (Although in a post-collapse situation maintaining those tests does become an issue long term, I used gold tests for years and only barely know what's in them much less how to make the component acids.)
Sounds to me like a fancy (and attractive) medium to sell gold to people in a way they can't verify anything and there is a huge "markup" on account of production.
So, how do you "add value" to gold? Print it on pretty pieces of paper that are worth at most 50% of what they are sold for. Under the guise of fiat currency being "bad" somehow.
So, how do you "add value" to gold? Print it on pretty pieces of paper that are worth at most 50% of what they are sold for. Under the guise of fiat currency being "bad" somehow.
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> Over 500 businesses in Utah were contacted and asked if they would take gold as payment.
Sure, if you call them and set up the pitch and go through it all, I can see how 50% of people would find it interesting and say, yeah, sure, I’ll take that. But that’s not science, and is why we do things like double-blinding tests so that the participants don’t know what’s going on.
Walk in to a place unannounced and try and buy a coffee or a t-shirt or a PlayStation with them Goldbacks and see how far you get.