The Mac price crash of 2021(zdnet.com)
zdnet.com
The Mac price crash of 2021
https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-mac-price-crash-of-2021/
100 comments
You can replace the SSD yourself. It does use an Apple connector, but you can find a 240GB model here:
https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/OWC-Aura-Pro-6G-SSD-for-Mac...
I live in a different country.
One without post?
I'd assume next you'd ask what is the shipping cost and then what is the return cost when it doesn't work and then how the warranties work.
In fact, I reckon you'd also ask how the currencies are staked against each other. All that. Won't you?
In fact, I reckon you'd also ask how the currencies are staked against each other. All that. Won't you?
What year did you attempt the repair? 8 years is a long life.
Can you boot from external drive?
Can you boot from external drive?
I bought it in late 2012 or early 2013 I believe. I tried repair first in early 2017 (moisture killed the SSD they all said). Then late last year I tried again. In the meantime I have essentially used my work Mac as the only laptop.
Previous company required me to leave work laptop in office that's why I bought one. Of late this company has been pressuring to install surveillance apps so my new-found interest in reviving my old laptop personal usage - browsing, mail etc - I don't anything else from my personal laptop.
So essentially it has not been used since 2017 (I keep it safe in an airtight bag). It boots up and shows the [?] as in no disk found.
Previous company required me to leave work laptop in office that's why I bought one. Of late this company has been pressuring to install surveillance apps so my new-found interest in reviving my old laptop personal usage - browsing, mail etc - I don't anything else from my personal laptop.
So essentially it has not been used since 2017 (I keep it safe in an airtight bag). It boots up and shows the [?] as in no disk found.
[deleted]
Resale value of the older laptops is still decent. 2013 MacBook Pro’s still going for £750 on eBay - For a machine 8 years old? I think it only cost £2000 back then anyway. So that Mac has only cost £13 a month to own.
Nobody's paying that much for a 2013 MBP. The will have to lower the price considerably before it's "going."
Ports and keyboard. That's worth something in real money.
Very true! I still prefer my 2013 to my 2016 for this reason.
No they’re actually selling. Just saw one go for £850 a few weeks back. And one with only 256gb SSD for £650. It’s crazy!
Don't they need to sell with a "warranty" to get the higher prices?
In the US market there are some power sellers who say 2 year warranty and get big prices. Meanwhile while I was selling 1 as a non-prof seller I got tons of questions of "can I return it" and "what is the warranty" and two times my item was bid up to the stratosphere by non paying biders. Finally I listed it buy it now only and eventually a no fuss buyer bought it for half the price of the prof-sellers.
My point is, ebay prices don't always tell the whole story.
In the US market there are some power sellers who say 2 year warranty and get big prices. Meanwhile while I was selling 1 as a non-prof seller I got tons of questions of "can I return it" and "what is the warranty" and two times my item was bid up to the stratosphere by non paying biders. Finally I listed it buy it now only and eventually a no fuss buyer bought it for half the price of the prof-sellers.
My point is, ebay prices don't always tell the whole story.
Just looks like private sellers to me.
Here's the £850 one - does have a TB SSD but still...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/apple-macbook-pro-retina-15-4-Inc...
And the £620 with 256GB https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-Macbook-Pro-15-inch-mid-201...
That is some serious value being retained right there.
Here's the £850 one - does have a TB SSD but still...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/apple-macbook-pro-retina-15-4-Inc...
And the £620 with 256GB https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-Macbook-Pro-15-inch-mid-201...
That is some serious value being retained right there.
I stand corrected, that is crazy!
In U.S. you can get it for $370 (~GBP 265): https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Apple-MacBook-Pro-13-3-RETINA-...
This is only 13 inch and 8gb ram, small SSD. I'm at least talking about decent versions.
Saying that, I still own a MacBook Pro 2013 and a newer 2016 for from work, and the performance is indistinguishable - so maybe £750 is a good deal.
That is all part of the reason prices stayed high - until there was a genuine update.
Saying that, I still own a MacBook Pro 2013 and a newer 2016 for from work, and the performance is indistinguishable - so maybe £750 is a good deal.
That is all part of the reason prices stayed high - until there was a genuine update.
Conversely, I expect used Intel MacBook and Mac Mini prices to go up when the last models are discontinued in 1–2 years' time, as that will be the only way to run x86 virtualization for Windows et al.
It's called a dead-cat bounce.
It's called a dead-cat bounce.
Dead cat bounce is exclusively a stock trading term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_bounce
Metaphors and language are dynamic flexible things.
I wish articles would be more specific about the loads and use cases under which the new Macs shine versus are not much better than the old Intel macs.
I thought the main strengths distinguishing the performance of the M1 were the idle power chips that saved a lot of energy, and the shared CPU/GPU memory. For loads running flat out all the time and emphasizing GPU, the difference is not as great, I thought?
Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
I thought the main strengths distinguishing the performance of the M1 were the idle power chips that saved a lot of energy, and the shared CPU/GPU memory. For loads running flat out all the time and emphasizing GPU, the difference is not as great, I thought?
Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
> Apple is still selling Macbooks with Intel inside. That cannot be just stupidity, right?
No, it just means the transition to ARM is not done. At WWDC they said it’ll take two years to convert the whole product line [1]. We are only a few months into that. Judging by the last couple years, the Apple HW ship turns slowly, but it does turn.
Also, there’s no need to be so harsh. When other people do something you don’t understand, it’s bad to assume they’re stupid. They probably have reasons you don’t know about.
[1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/this-is-apples-roadm...
No, it just means the transition to ARM is not done. At WWDC they said it’ll take two years to convert the whole product line [1]. We are only a few months into that. Judging by the last couple years, the Apple HW ship turns slowly, but it does turn.
Also, there’s no need to be so harsh. When other people do something you don’t understand, it’s bad to assume they’re stupid. They probably have reasons you don’t know about.
[1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/this-is-apples-roadm...
The only reason they’re selling MacBooks with Intel is bc they haven’t updated the whole line yet. They did the entry level models for MacBook, Air, and mini. They’ll do the rest when they roll out the M1X (higher end first party chip) later this year to the rest of the line.
Look up the performance stats, for loads running flat out or using GPU, M1 is insanely faster. People are replacing their two year old $5K top of the line MacBooks with an entry level M1 and seeing massive real world performance gains. That’s the point of this article - why would anyone pay $2-3K for a used 15” MacBook Pro that retailed for $5K in 2018 when they can buy an M1 that blows it out of the water brand new for half the price?
There are still limiting factors (if you need ports, more RAM, etc) since these are entry level models, but the rumors about the next gen MBPs coming in H2 of this year sound like they’ll tackle those easily.
Look up the performance stats, for loads running flat out or using GPU, M1 is insanely faster. People are replacing their two year old $5K top of the line MacBooks with an entry level M1 and seeing massive real world performance gains. That’s the point of this article - why would anyone pay $2-3K for a used 15” MacBook Pro that retailed for $5K in 2018 when they can buy an M1 that blows it out of the water brand new for half the price?
There are still limiting factors (if you need ports, more RAM, etc) since these are entry level models, but the rumors about the next gen MBPs coming in H2 of this year sound like they’ll tackle those easily.
Would you say it's worth waiting for the M1X if one hasn't already picked up an M1?
I think the best reasons to wait are:
- Needing support for more than one external monitor
- Needing a larger screen
- Needing more ports
- Needing more RAM or more internal storage
I don't think it's worth struggling with a slow computer until the end of the year if you'll eventually buy a "spec bump" of the current two-port M1 macbooks.
I don't think it's worth struggling with a slow computer until the end of the year if you'll eventually buy a "spec bump" of the current two-port M1 macbooks.
M1X will be a lot faster with multicore loads. So if you are daily depending on heavy multi core payloads it will be worth the wait.
The article author seems to assume that Apple will steadily increase the performance of part or all of their entire product line in 2021 with Apple Silicon. Since Apple has been doing that with the iPhone for ten years, it’s quite reasonable to assume this will affect their laptop and desktop lines too.
The first Apple Silicon release is better than nearly everything available from Intel. That same first release will likely be obsolete by the end of 2021, as Apple advances with M1X or M2. That annual obsolescence may well continue for the next ten years, too.
So the used Apple laptop market is going to look a lot more like the used iPhone market - and in the used iPhone market, you get 15% of what you paid, not 85%, because there’s an endless supply of new phones forcing the used market down.
The first Apple Silicon release is better than nearly everything available from Intel. That same first release will likely be obsolete by the end of 2021, as Apple advances with M1X or M2. That annual obsolescence may well continue for the next ten years, too.
So the used Apple laptop market is going to look a lot more like the used iPhone market - and in the used iPhone market, you get 15% of what you paid, not 85%, because there’s an endless supply of new phones forcing the used market down.
It's not really about the raw speed or single core perf anymore. These M1 processors have huge caches and flat-out workloads can really scream on them. Apple engineers took a holistic approach to optimizing the processor for general computing workloads, and it shows.
I’ve been wanting to get a 2015 MacBook Pro before they switched to the worse keyboards, but now I should maybe just look for an even newer one...?
As long as you get one with 16GB RAM you’ll be okay. The SSD in 2015 MBPs can also be upgraded - MacSales sells complete DIY kits. I knew I was going this route and managed to find a 16GB RAM/128GB SSD and just upgraded to the 2TB drive[0]. It screams.
[0]: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3DAPT4MB20K/
[0]: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/S3DAPT4MB20K/
I held onto my old one until the 2019s came out. I’m happy with my decision to wait and also with the 2019 MBPro.
Post-pandemic, I’m almost exclusively typing on a Kinesis, but pre-pandemic, I found the laptop keyboard to be okay.
If I’d known we’d have a pandemic, wouldn’t be traveling in 2020, and that M1s were coming out, I’d have waited longer, but I’d probably have made other, more impactful decisions than which laptop to buy.
Post-pandemic, I’m almost exclusively typing on a Kinesis, but pre-pandemic, I found the laptop keyboard to be okay.
If I’d known we’d have a pandemic, wouldn’t be traveling in 2020, and that M1s were coming out, I’d have waited longer, but I’d probably have made other, more impactful decisions than which laptop to buy.
Mine is by far the best computer that I’ve ever owned. All the ports are there, the screen is great, it’s incredibly fast, and I love the trackpad/keyboard. I’ve had it for about a year and a half and it still makes me really happy every time I use it. Highly recommend.
I’m still running a late 2012 15” MBP which was upgraded at purchase with the 2.6GHz i7 and 16GB of ram. It remains one of the most reliable laptops I’ve ever owned, and so far I’ve only needed to replace the battery when it stopped lasting all day which I regularly need. I suspect once it can’t run the latest MacOS that will probably kill it, for now it runs Big Sur fine with some small patches and Windows 10 in bootcamp for the two or so pieces if software I just can’t avoid.
If you can find a much newer one, the more recent 16” macbooks have a much improved typing experience over the first attempt at the butterfly keys, otherwise a 2015 one with upgrades to at least the RAM will still run quite well.
If you can find a much newer one, the more recent 16” macbooks have a much improved typing experience over the first attempt at the butterfly keys, otherwise a 2015 one with upgrades to at least the RAM will still run quite well.
Rumour has it that they're planning to bring back all the ports in the next version, and that they'll be an 12-core version. Personally I'm waiting for that (but then I already have a 2015 model, so I'm in a good position).
> they're planning to bring back all the ports in the next version
I'd be surprised if they brought back ALL of the ports. I'm guessing they'll bring back the HDMI and the sd card slot (although probably microSD this time).
I'd be surprised if they brought back ALL of the ports. I'm guessing they'll bring back the HDMI and the sd card slot (although probably microSD this time).
Yeah, probably not all of them. I'd certainly be surprised to see usb-A. The rumours I heard said the magsafe port would be back too though.
I loved magsafe at the time, but I can't decide if I want magsafe now. It's pretty nice being able to charge most devices in my bag with the same USB-C cord. If they had a magnetic breakaway connection in the middle of a USB-C cord, that would be the best of both worlds.
Only microSD would be useless. People with fancy cameras need a full size SD port.
I think what you mean is that it would be useless for people who need a full SD ports. A MicroSD slot is not useless for MicroSD cards.
Apple would presumably be reintroducing an SD lot to court the prosumer/professional market with these new laptops just as they have with the revamped iMac Pro and the Apple Pro.
As such they would need to add a full SD slot for people who use professional cameras because that is the form factor that these cameras use -- not microSD.
Think about it another way -- what kind of products use microSD cards? What market would Apple be targeting if they brought microSD slots to their laptops?
As such they would need to add a full SD slot for people who use professional cameras because that is the form factor that these cameras use -- not microSD.
Think about it another way -- what kind of products use microSD cards? What market would Apple be targeting if they brought microSD slots to their laptops?
Still using my 2015 MBP 15" with no issues minus some loss of battery life. If you can find one with light usage for cheap it might not be a terrible idea.
I don't use mine for CPU intensive tasks though, so YMMV.
I don't use mine for CPU intensive tasks though, so YMMV.
I have a 2015 MBP 15" also, and it's still a really good machine. Even if you find one with a shot battery you can get Apple to replace the battery for $200.
Be cautious with that. Apple has a policy to stop supplying parts for older hardware after 5 or 7 years. (I'm not sure exactly when different parts of service fall off.) https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
Wife's Macbook Air needed a new battery end of last year and I thought "eh, $129 is worth it" only to find out that the battery wasn't actually available at any price from Apple. Ended up replacing it with an aftermarket $30 one and it's been great for 3 months, but that's also not a glued-in battery, so it was an easy 10 minute job, certainly not the case on the 2015 MBP.
If your computer is coming up on one of those timelines, the battery is slightly weak, and you want to keep it, might be worth getting the service while it's available. I was not happy to have to go aftermarket, given some of the shadiness in that market.
Wife's Macbook Air needed a new battery end of last year and I thought "eh, $129 is worth it" only to find out that the battery wasn't actually available at any price from Apple. Ended up replacing it with an aftermarket $30 one and it's been great for 3 months, but that's also not a glued-in battery, so it was an easy 10 minute job, certainly not the case on the 2015 MBP.
If your computer is coming up on one of those timelines, the battery is slightly weak, and you want to keep it, might be worth getting the service while it's available. I was not happy to have to go aftermarket, given some of the shadiness in that market.
Oh, thanks for the info. I guess it's good I got the battery replaced in 2019, but if I need it replaced again in 2024 or whatever I guess I'll probably be out of luck.
Why even get a Mac? Most other high-end laptops have better keyboards and more repairable hardware.
Oddly M1 macs have also been having pretty deep price cuts lately. I get the feeling sales have greatly slowed down past the initial burst.
I think there are two dynamics at play: the weak economy for much of the middle class and the jobless rate being higher than normal, along with work from home and pandemic aspects of life increasing demand for home electronics.
People want computers perhaps more than normal, but do they have the money to spend?
I think this is why Apple was advertising Education pricing on the M1 Macs the day they came out. They don’t care that you qualify, it’s basically a “buy from Apple directly instead of a third party retailer” discount.
This is all just my amateur theory - I think Apple wants to keep volumes up and sell something to meet demand.
People want computers perhaps more than normal, but do they have the money to spend?
I think this is why Apple was advertising Education pricing on the M1 Macs the day they came out. They don’t care that you qualify, it’s basically a “buy from Apple directly instead of a third party retailer” discount.
This is all just my amateur theory - I think Apple wants to keep volumes up and sell something to meet demand.
Yeah, I think it's more that people can't justify what I'd call luxury pricing for hardware right now. I'm not aware of any significant failures in the M1 design to suggest that Apple screwed up hard at least.
When things turn around, I'd expect Apple to pick back up pretty well. I'm not an Apple owner nor a fan, but I definitely have an interest in watching the evolution of these since they're the first real rival to x86 in a long time.
There's a real possibility I'll end up going to a future Apple, Microsoft (since they're looking into doing their own ARM chips now as well), or some other ARM architecture in the next 10 years if Intel and AMD can't keep x86 ahead. It looks like Intel already lost with almost no hope of getting back into a competitive position, so AMD's what I'm watching closest on that side.
Also, look, before anyone downvotes me for being Anti-Intel(tm), I just want to say that I'm going to remain skeptical until Intel can do 2-3 generations of good chips in succession without dropping the ball hard. Zen has two or three generations of good improvement showing up, and Intel might have ONE generation with the newest chips coming out but that doesn't mean they'll keep it up.
If Intel does that, I'll keep them in consideration. Until that point.. well, I'm just going to remain skeptical and cautious.
When things turn around, I'd expect Apple to pick back up pretty well. I'm not an Apple owner nor a fan, but I definitely have an interest in watching the evolution of these since they're the first real rival to x86 in a long time.
There's a real possibility I'll end up going to a future Apple, Microsoft (since they're looking into doing their own ARM chips now as well), or some other ARM architecture in the next 10 years if Intel and AMD can't keep x86 ahead. It looks like Intel already lost with almost no hope of getting back into a competitive position, so AMD's what I'm watching closest on that side.
Also, look, before anyone downvotes me for being Anti-Intel(tm), I just want to say that I'm going to remain skeptical until Intel can do 2-3 generations of good chips in succession without dropping the ball hard. Zen has two or three generations of good improvement showing up, and Intel might have ONE generation with the newest chips coming out but that doesn't mean they'll keep it up.
If Intel does that, I'll keep them in consideration. Until that point.. well, I'm just going to remain skeptical and cautious.
The middle class who still have jobs currently have more money than they know what to do with! Markets are soaring and personal current accounts are full to bursting, according to central banks, as nobody has anything to spend money on. This gives me hope for a quick economic bounce-back. It's the working class and people who have lost their jobs who are seriously struggling. The middle class are fine.
So overall, a good time to buy an Intel-based MBP to install Logic Pro and Photoshop on, then completely disconnect them from the Internet?
Doesn't Photoshop require an internet connection?
I'm blissfully unaware of the current state of Photoshop.
I've heard nothing but complaints about their licensing, but IIRC some older versions (CS6?) still work after only one-time activation.
I've heard nothing but complaints about their licensing, but IIRC some older versions (CS6?) still work after only one-time activation.
At our company we have a bunch of Macbook pro 13" with butterfly keyboards that nobody wants to use internally, that in combo with the new M1s really made the resale value drop, it did leave us with a bad taste in the mouth.
Yes, I like to buy my machines 2nd hand but I'm not going to touch anything with that keyboard.
It does not matter what you think how good the M1 is, what the author states is the opinion of the potential buyer of a mac out there.
I do not see it as so much superior as he does, but the prices will crater because most think it is.
Even if the M1 isn't a complete upending of the Apple line, the next generation is expected to be yet another leap from the M1. They probably won't get another jump like that again, but 2 is more than enough.
Slightly off topic but - Does anyone here have an opinion on whether or not it's a good idea to update to an M1 macbook?
I'm usually weary of GEN1 products, but it's been hard for me to hold off on picking up one of these. The performance boosts seem to be quite impactful in a daily workflow especially if you're compiling a lot of code regularly.
I'd be upgrading from a late 2015, 15" non-dedicated GPU macbook pro. It works fine and I don't really have any complains other than of course I'd love if it were faster. Since I'm on my computer all the time, removing sources of friction are important.
I'm usually weary of GEN1 products, but it's been hard for me to hold off on picking up one of these. The performance boosts seem to be quite impactful in a daily workflow especially if you're compiling a lot of code regularly.
I'd be upgrading from a late 2015, 15" non-dedicated GPU macbook pro. It works fine and I don't really have any complains other than of course I'd love if it were faster. Since I'm on my computer all the time, removing sources of friction are important.
The only downsides would be if you need to produce or deal with architecture-specific binaries. For example if you build container images or native code on your machine and ship them up to AWS, Google, etc. to run your service.
With the change to ARM you'll now build an ARM container (or exe, etc.) and it won't run on Intel or AMD-based servers. You'll need to invest time figuring out Rosetta 2, cross-compilation, QEMU, and other multi-architecture workarounds to produce non-native binaries. It's not difficult or particularly confusing once you understand all the moving parts, but it has tripped a lot of people up who thought things would just magically work.
If you're dealing with particularly gnarly messes of complex build systems with obfuscated and obtuse decades old makefile messes it can be quite daunting to add cross compilation and multiarch support. But most codesbases aren't like that and you'll probably be fine. Interpreted and JIT-compiled languages like Python, Node, etc. are generally smooth sailing (unless you link to native code). Modern systems languages like Go, Rust, etc. are very easy to cross compile. With C/C++ you're up against a bit more pain depending on how nice your build system behaves (but let's be honest if you're dealing with a C/C++ codebase in 2021 you're used to some pain).
The inverse problem is also now true. If you pull down a container image, download a binary, etc. it ideally has to be ARM to work. Rosetta 2 can help in the short term to get Intel dependencies working, but again there will need to be some work done to get the dependency moved to multiarch and ARM support.
There's also a major gap in this story if anyone on your team is using Intel machines. There is no good equivalent to Rosetta 2 for Intel--i.e. those Intel users are going to have trouble making an ARM binary or container that your mac can consume. You're going to have to coach them up and walk them through using something like QEMU to achieve this goal (this might not be easy, be warned). IMHO it will be easier to push this load onto your CI system (assuming it can support building ARM) so that people just push source code from their machines and CI takes care of ensuring Intel, ARM, etc. builds are available to everyone.
If this sounds like a lot of issues, try to stay on the happy path of using one architecture everywhere. M1 macs + AWS Graviton 2 instances in AWS is 100% ARM64 all the way and really something incredible once you live in that world. Other cloud providers (ahem Azure?? Google??) need to get their act together and get ARM64 instances available yesterday.
With the change to ARM you'll now build an ARM container (or exe, etc.) and it won't run on Intel or AMD-based servers. You'll need to invest time figuring out Rosetta 2, cross-compilation, QEMU, and other multi-architecture workarounds to produce non-native binaries. It's not difficult or particularly confusing once you understand all the moving parts, but it has tripped a lot of people up who thought things would just magically work.
If you're dealing with particularly gnarly messes of complex build systems with obfuscated and obtuse decades old makefile messes it can be quite daunting to add cross compilation and multiarch support. But most codesbases aren't like that and you'll probably be fine. Interpreted and JIT-compiled languages like Python, Node, etc. are generally smooth sailing (unless you link to native code). Modern systems languages like Go, Rust, etc. are very easy to cross compile. With C/C++ you're up against a bit more pain depending on how nice your build system behaves (but let's be honest if you're dealing with a C/C++ codebase in 2021 you're used to some pain).
The inverse problem is also now true. If you pull down a container image, download a binary, etc. it ideally has to be ARM to work. Rosetta 2 can help in the short term to get Intel dependencies working, but again there will need to be some work done to get the dependency moved to multiarch and ARM support.
There's also a major gap in this story if anyone on your team is using Intel machines. There is no good equivalent to Rosetta 2 for Intel--i.e. those Intel users are going to have trouble making an ARM binary or container that your mac can consume. You're going to have to coach them up and walk them through using something like QEMU to achieve this goal (this might not be easy, be warned). IMHO it will be easier to push this load onto your CI system (assuming it can support building ARM) so that people just push source code from their machines and CI takes care of ensuring Intel, ARM, etc. builds are available to everyone.
If this sounds like a lot of issues, try to stay on the happy path of using one architecture everywhere. M1 macs + AWS Graviton 2 instances in AWS is 100% ARM64 all the way and really something incredible once you live in that world. Other cloud providers (ahem Azure?? Google??) need to get their act together and get ARM64 instances available yesterday.
You can build a multi-platform docker container which runs on multiple platforms thanks to the buildx command:
https://www.docker.com/blog/multi-platform-docker-builds/
Already many docker images are published with both x86-64 and arm64.
Yep, the tooling is still lagging a bit in this regard so just be prepared to deal with confusing errors (invalid image format, etc.) when multiarch isn't available. Docker's manifest command is useful to see if a container has ARM builds: https://docs.docker.com/engine/reference/commandline/manifes...
I wouldn't right now. First versions after a major update tend to be disappointing compared to what comes afterward. It's usually a good idea to wait until the next refresh.
For myself, I run dual 4K displays and the M1-based laptops don’t support that.
They do support it with display link. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...
My monitors are Thunderbolt 3 and daisy-chained. :)
I'm a few months in on my M1 Air 8GB base model. To fund it I sold a 2020 Intel Air (before the prices started dropping) and a ThinkPad L14. I have no regrets.
For context, I'm a dev. I do DotNet Core, Node, Go, Python, and Ruby. All of them are far faster than previously on the Intel Air, and at least as fast as the L14 with its 16GB and Ryzen 7 Pro. The only performance downside being an initial hit of up to a second or two for the tooling the first time it's used since the last restart (whilst it does its Rosetta wonders). Everything is working as it should, although I have no current need for Docker so can't comment on the progress of that. I had some issues getting Homebrew using ARM versions of stuff (I think, it was a while ago now) but otherwise life is good.
The biggest benefit for me, though, is that unlike previously I am getting this enhanced performance from a stone-cold fanless machine with a battery life good enough that I only plug it in daily out of habit (I could easily go several days without).
Two ports is enough (for me) - bear in mind that really is two ports, as mostly there is no need to be connected to the power so you don't lose one during the day.
The keyboard isn't a patch on the ThinkPads, obviously, but its the proper Apple standard not the dodgy one from a few years back. Feels good, slightly shallow travel. One oddity is there are no longer hotkeys to control key backlights. Unless you open the settings, MacOS does it automatically. I didn't think I'd like that, but it works consistently well.
BTW in the couple of months I've had it, I've had three lock-ups. All when running JetBrains IDEs as it happens, but that's Java for you. Rebooting is quick enough that it wasn't an issue.
For context, I'm a dev. I do DotNet Core, Node, Go, Python, and Ruby. All of them are far faster than previously on the Intel Air, and at least as fast as the L14 with its 16GB and Ryzen 7 Pro. The only performance downside being an initial hit of up to a second or two for the tooling the first time it's used since the last restart (whilst it does its Rosetta wonders). Everything is working as it should, although I have no current need for Docker so can't comment on the progress of that. I had some issues getting Homebrew using ARM versions of stuff (I think, it was a while ago now) but otherwise life is good.
The biggest benefit for me, though, is that unlike previously I am getting this enhanced performance from a stone-cold fanless machine with a battery life good enough that I only plug it in daily out of habit (I could easily go several days without).
Two ports is enough (for me) - bear in mind that really is two ports, as mostly there is no need to be connected to the power so you don't lose one during the day.
The keyboard isn't a patch on the ThinkPads, obviously, but its the proper Apple standard not the dodgy one from a few years back. Feels good, slightly shallow travel. One oddity is there are no longer hotkeys to control key backlights. Unless you open the settings, MacOS does it automatically. I didn't think I'd like that, but it works consistently well.
BTW in the couple of months I've had it, I've had three lock-ups. All when running JetBrains IDEs as it happens, but that's Java for you. Rebooting is quick enough that it wasn't an issue.
>in the couple of months I've had it, I've had three lock-ups
Everybody has hated on Microsoft my whole life, but you know, I can't remember the last time Windows 10 locked up on me. I don't even know if it "blue screens" the way windows used to. For all its faults, it "just works".
Everybody has hated on Microsoft my whole life, but you know, I can't remember the last time Windows 10 locked up on me. I don't even know if it "blue screens" the way windows used to. For all its faults, it "just works".
Fair point.
When I run Windows 10 Professional at home (which I still occasionally do) I get excellent reliability. The moment it hits heavily locked down networked office laptops is when it starts going bad, but to be fair to Microsoft I'm pretty sure that's more the interaction of complex software with a massive amount of commodity hardware in configurations that are way to varied for all combinations to ever be tested. HP being especially bad and Lenovo especially good in this regard.
I do find myself occasionally wishing that the Surface range had the same hardware as my M1 Air as I'm still more productive on Windows, partly due to the UI/UX (when it is consistent which isn't everywhere) being better, and partly because it's just a whole lot easier to keep my hands on the keyboard and away from the mouse/trackpad than it is on Mac OS.
Whilst I do Python, Node, Go, Ruby, etc., I've been a .Net developer since 2001 and in many ways (going back to DOS in the 80s) Microsoft are responsible for me having a good career. I'm not blind to their rapaciousness, but I am grateful too.
When I run Windows 10 Professional at home (which I still occasionally do) I get excellent reliability. The moment it hits heavily locked down networked office laptops is when it starts going bad, but to be fair to Microsoft I'm pretty sure that's more the interaction of complex software with a massive amount of commodity hardware in configurations that are way to varied for all combinations to ever be tested. HP being especially bad and Lenovo especially good in this regard.
I do find myself occasionally wishing that the Surface range had the same hardware as my M1 Air as I'm still more productive on Windows, partly due to the UI/UX (when it is consistent which isn't everywhere) being better, and partly because it's just a whole lot easier to keep my hands on the keyboard and away from the mouse/trackpad than it is on Mac OS.
Whilst I do Python, Node, Go, Ruby, etc., I've been a .Net developer since 2001 and in many ways (going back to DOS in the 80s) Microsoft are responsible for me having a good career. I'm not blind to their rapaciousness, but I am grateful too.
I have heard complaints when it comes to local development of apps running Python. Seems from [1] any version older than Python 3.9.1 may have problems:
"Python v3.9.1 becomes the first version of the language to support macOS 11 Big Sur. The developers note that the release is made possible thanks to Xcode 11..."
[1] https://www.techradar.com/news/you-can-now-run-python-on-app...
"Python v3.9.1 becomes the first version of the language to support macOS 11 Big Sur. The developers note that the release is made possible thanks to Xcode 11..."
[1] https://www.techradar.com/news/you-can-now-run-python-on-app...
You would be going down to a smaller display, and losing i/o ports. Other than that, and a few apps still not optimized for AArch64, it's all positives.
What would you like your computer to be faster at? If you just want apps to open faster in general, go for it. If you want faster performance for Xcode or video editing, I'd say wait until the end of the year.
What would you like your computer to be faster at? If you just want apps to open faster in general, go for it. If you want faster performance for Xcode or video editing, I'd say wait until the end of the year.
My opinion is to wait for the next iteration which is expected to be released in a few months. Those will have additional ports (almost confirmed) and hopefully a webcam that doesn’t suck and isn’t stuck in the distant past (not yet known if this will be handled, but it’s the biggest blot on the current lineup of M1 Mac laptops).
The extra grunt is impressive. On my old 2018 MBA playing Zwift on medium quality graphics would cause the fans to howl. My new M1 MBA will run Zwift on high quality graphics, at 2-3x the frame rate, and be 70% idle. Of course, the fans are quiet because there aren’t any.
I would go ahead and upgrade. For the cost of a MacBook Air your experience will improve a ton.
I've got an M1 MBA that work sent me for debugging, it spends most of it's time collecting dust. Granted, I'm not a big fan of MacOS, but this computer isn't doing much to change that.
If you don't have any complaints, I don't think it's a bad idea to wait a bit longer for the second gen.
Absolutely not - google the m1 swap file ssd fiasco. Their ssds (soldered) are wearing out very quickly
The M1 MBP can't drive more than external screen, that's something to think about.
You can connect up to five external screens on the M1 MacBook Pro. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/11/24/m1-macs-able-to-run-six...
Wait for a screen larger than 13"!
They only have 8 GB of RAM don't they? Seems like a major limiting factor for many applications at the moment.
Both the Air and Pro have a 16GB option.
https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/?modelList=MacBookPro-13_1...
https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/?modelList=MacBookPro-13_1...
16GB is the max configuration option.
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This guy claims swapping is efficient, yet I see other posts saying they're going to blow out in under 2 years due to write load on the 8GB versions of the M1 laptops
The lack of control over hardware and software on contemporary Macs is a show-stopper for me. Once they get back to Snow Leopard ideology I'll return, until then it's Linux or Windows for me
What exactly is it you don’t like?
Fears were that they would be locked down like iPhones are, but there is Asahi Linux running on M1 already, and OpenBSD soon.
The reported SSD swap file wear and tear potentially writing off a whole laptop due to soldered drives is concerning to say the least
Important points, but not what they were talking about I don't think.
Something else I forgot to mention in my first response to this comment:
Snow Leopard dropped the price of the update from $129 to $29. This might have been part of its positive reception.
Snow Leopard dropped the price of the update from $129 to $29. This might have been part of its positive reception.
This is a weird attitude I’ve seen where Snow Leopard is worshipped as “the greatest macOS version there ever was.”
Apple’s design philosophy isn’t particularly different from that time. Snow Leopard was something of a feature freeze to make up for deficiencies with Leopard.
Apple was never some pariah of hardware and software flexibility. If you had a PowerPC Mac or older you dealt with all kinds of incompatibilities from different peripherals, floppy disk formats, and physical connectors.
The interoperability of Macs is the best it’s ever been, especially since Apple no longer deals with a <5% market share like the 1990s.
Apple’s design philosophy isn’t particularly different from that time. Snow Leopard was something of a feature freeze to make up for deficiencies with Leopard.
Apple was never some pariah of hardware and software flexibility. If you had a PowerPC Mac or older you dealt with all kinds of incompatibilities from different peripherals, floppy disk formats, and physical connectors.
The interoperability of Macs is the best it’s ever been, especially since Apple no longer deals with a <5% market share like the 1990s.
> Snow Leopard was something of a feature freeze to make up for deficiencies with Leopard.
Could that be an indication that users don't really want new features in their OS?
Could that be an indication that users don't really want new features in their OS?
The feedback indicator for volume adjust on iOS reduces to toothpick thin finger nail high placed immediate to the button, not an improvement on the squircle that used to occupy half the screen. That deterioration in usability rests on the shoulders of higher pay grades political infighting, Apple beige era bigcorp bad old days ladder climbing gaming, resulting in lack of oversight on aesthetic overview effect. Or, nobody can say "no" anymore.
What you want and what you need are two different things ;-)
I can't say for sure what aspect of "Snow Leopard design philosophy" the GP was referring to, but since they also mentioned "lack of control over hardware and software", that's one thing that comes to mind.
I don't think enough people appreciate just how beautifully hackable OS X used to be. The Library folder was unhidden by default, basically inviting users to go explore their systems. Applescript and Automator were treated as first-class citizens, offering an easy way to extend existing apps. Custom themes—while never officially supported—were easy to make via a bit of file replacement, and there seems to have been quite a lot of them, if DeviantArt is any indication. And there was nothing to stop you from writing and loading your own drivers to add support for new hardware, as plenty of enthusiasts did.
Today, stock apps like Music store data in obtuse and non-human-readable locations, Apple Events are virtually useless due to mandatory permission dialogs, kernel extensions are deprecated, and the root filesystem is mounted via a complex snapshot mechanism in which a reboot is required for changes to take effect.
Perhaps this was always Apple's goal. Perhaps it was necessary for security. Perhaps, for a majority of users, it ultimately provides a better experience. But if you are someone who likes to tweak and customize your machine, OS X used to be a great home, in a way that it isn't today.
I don't think enough people appreciate just how beautifully hackable OS X used to be. The Library folder was unhidden by default, basically inviting users to go explore their systems. Applescript and Automator were treated as first-class citizens, offering an easy way to extend existing apps. Custom themes—while never officially supported—were easy to make via a bit of file replacement, and there seems to have been quite a lot of them, if DeviantArt is any indication. And there was nothing to stop you from writing and loading your own drivers to add support for new hardware, as plenty of enthusiasts did.
Today, stock apps like Music store data in obtuse and non-human-readable locations, Apple Events are virtually useless due to mandatory permission dialogs, kernel extensions are deprecated, and the root filesystem is mounted via a complex snapshot mechanism in which a reboot is required for changes to take effect.
Perhaps this was always Apple's goal. Perhaps it was necessary for security. Perhaps, for a majority of users, it ultimately provides a better experience. But if you are someone who likes to tweak and customize your machine, OS X used to be a great home, in a way that it isn't today.
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I get where you’re coming from. I suspect that much of that flexibility was never intended. After all, OS X started as a workstation OS for a different market than Apple entirely.
I won’t address your whole comment but I feel compelled to point out that Music is iTunes. The Music app was just a name change, and, confusingly, Apple Music (the service) is an entirely different entity than Music (the app). Your own local music files (either your own MP3s or iTunes Store purchases) are still accessed in the same iTunes Media Library folder as they always were.
Music was just a rebrand, and it spun out podcast, audiobook, and iPhone/iPod sync. But the rest of it is 100% iTunes.
I won’t address your whole comment but I feel compelled to point out that Music is iTunes. The Music app was just a name change, and, confusingly, Apple Music (the service) is an entirely different entity than Music (the app). Your own local music files (either your own MP3s or iTunes Store purchases) are still accessed in the same iTunes Media Library folder as they always were.
Music was just a rebrand, and it spun out podcast, audiobook, and iPhone/iPod sync. But the rest of it is 100% iTunes.
I am going to think real long and hard when I buy my next laptop.