CSVCHAIN - NFTs backed by CSV technology(csvchain.com)
csvchain.com
CSVCHAIN - NFTs backed by CSV technology
https://csvchain.com/
170 comments
I see that CSVCHAIN is "held in cold storage on this USB drive" a 1 GB thumb drive. This seems to imply an upper bound on the number of NFTs on CSVCHAIN. How, I wonder, does the creator of this project expect to scale CSVCHAIN beyond this limit?
Additionally, can we secure guarantees that the project owner is safely ejecting the USB drive in question?
Additionally, can we secure guarantees that the project owner is safely ejecting the USB drive in question?
Once Roy makes some $ he could horizontally scale to a 2GB drive. Or 2 1GB drives and keep one in his sock draw so it's distributed in his house.
In the event of using 2 1GB drives with one stored in the sock drawer, how do we prevent the quite literal "evil maid" attacks altering the CSVCHAIN?
Additionally, if we do use this mechanism, I petition to fork the name from CSVCHAIN to SockChain.
Additionally, if we do use this mechanism, I petition to fork the name from CSVCHAIN to SockChain.
I don't know how many times I need to repeat this FACT on this site, but socks are NOT immutable. How many holes do you have in your 7 year old socks? I'd wager a LOT. How many mismatched socks do you have in your drawer? I'd wager, AGAIN, a LOT.
The only way to make this truly secure, is to have 2 USB thumb drives, plugged into a different side of the machine (god hope you have a machine with USB ports on both sides). Then, saw the machine in half, right down the middle. I'll find the crypto paper where I read about that.
The only way to make this truly secure, is to have 2 USB thumb drives, plugged into a different side of the machine (god hope you have a machine with USB ports on both sides). Then, saw the machine in half, right down the middle. I'll find the crypto paper where I read about that.
One of the most fascinating things I learned as a kid is that you can cut a Planaria flatworm in half, and each half regenerates the missing half. So now you have two Planaria.
If this works for the CSVCHAIN PC, you could have exponentially increasing compute power and storage!
Regarding the socks, a good trick is to use two drawers. One drawer has only matched pairs of socks. Unmatched single socks go in the second drawer, and some of them will eventually find a matching sock.
I plan to write an article on this. I will call it Socks and the Singles Drawer.
If this works for the CSVCHAIN PC, you could have exponentially increasing compute power and storage!
Regarding the socks, a good trick is to use two drawers. One drawer has only matched pairs of socks. Unmatched single socks go in the second drawer, and some of them will eventually find a matching sock.
I plan to write an article on this. I will call it Socks and the Singles Drawer.
Alternatively, only buy socks that are identical. That way any two socks are already a pair. This entails 50% fewer drawers.
Socks are in fact immutable infrastructure. When your EC2 instance crashes, you shut it down and provision a new one. When your socks get holes, you throw them out and buy new ones. This isn't 2010 anymore, you really think people debug their servers and mend their socks?
You are thinking about threads, not socks. It's the threading technology you need to review; HINT: the color matters.
The threads built on NFT-w (natural fibre textile, wool) don't have these issues and can be spun up in a more eco-friendly way. All these garment-haters that talk about how cotton requires huge amounts of land and water don't seem to understand that we have already solved these issues by using a BAT (basic ALPACA token), and those of us who bought BAT early will be riding this kid all the way to new zeeland!
EDIT: the downvoters are just people who don't know how a POW (proof of wool) exchange works, or are in denial about how we can scale it by using clumps to have localized, bidirectional hair-pulls. It can scale from dual-crimps all the way up to a felt.
EDIT: the downvoters are just people who don't know how a POW (proof of wool) exchange works, or are in denial about how we can scale it by using clumps to have localized, bidirectional hair-pulls. It can scale from dual-crimps all the way up to a felt.
Socks are cattle, not pets
Only up to a certain age. Once you pass 50 or take up hiking, you start buying serious pet socks. Merino wool triple layer moisture wicking tough heel socks? Shut up and take my money, REI!
A lot of people haven't worked with socks beyond the level of Winsock.
When the first drive fills, take the hash of the file, and make it the first line of drive two. That way they are chained together.
> he could horizontally scale to a 2GB drive
Minor nitpick: I believe you wanted to write "vertically scale".
Minor nitpick: I believe you wanted to write "vertically scale".
I think sharding to multiple drives would be more decentralised.
I wish I could upvote this more
This should be possible using "split" technology: https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/spli...
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Has anybody ever thought of something like a real world NFT? Imagine if you took a bunch of dried plant pigments and mixed them with oil and smeared them onto a canvas. Because it is physical it couldn't be duplicated or double-spent and it has a simple materials-based minting cost. I don't think anybody has done this before and there is probably a large market for buying and selling something like this. These are early days.
This is not a good metaphor for NFTs. The content of any NFT can be perfectly duplicated by anyone. The only part of an NFT that matters is the signature. A better analogy would be musicians signing CDs / vinyls, sports players signing player cards / equipment, etc.
People buying NFTs created by nobodies are simply getting scammed. The physical metaphor here would be like paying a random amateur sports player to sign some equipment.
People buying NFTs created by nobodies are simply getting scammed. The physical metaphor here would be like paying a random amateur sports player to sign some equipment.
I don't think this is the case with unlockable NFT's, is it? You can copy the "box" so to speak, but you can't see what's inside if you don't own it.
I have not followed NFTs like this very closely, but my understanding of them is this:
* There is some contract that generates NFTs under some condition (this is the box you mentioned)
* When the condition is met to create a new NFT, it creates one using VRF data, similar to how is described here: https://blog.coincodecap.com/how-to-generate-random-numbers-...
Anyone can make an NFT and stuff the same random number(s) into it that the contract received from the VRF. The difference is in who made thr NFT. Most people wouldn't find an NFT interesting if it's just a random number, made by a random person. An NFT which was produced by a smart contract might be exactly the same, but it is more interesting because some (usually centralized) game or service uses that random number to represent something else. That game or service is only interested in NFTs created by their smart contract.
* There is some contract that generates NFTs under some condition (this is the box you mentioned)
* When the condition is met to create a new NFT, it creates one using VRF data, similar to how is described here: https://blog.coincodecap.com/how-to-generate-random-numbers-...
Anyone can make an NFT and stuff the same random number(s) into it that the contract received from the VRF. The difference is in who made thr NFT. Most people wouldn't find an NFT interesting if it's just a random number, made by a random person. An NFT which was produced by a smart contract might be exactly the same, but it is more interesting because some (usually centralized) game or service uses that random number to represent something else. That game or service is only interested in NFTs created by their smart contract.
Yeah, but it could be a completely unique painting of a QR-code of the NFT...
That way you couldn't just replicate the NFT on another chain!
I got you fam: https://github.com/william-fields/witless#ntf-support
I like where the developer leaked the private key of the signing authority:
https://github.com/william-fields/witless/commit/dc4a429b721...
The problems with this 'witless' proposal is that we have no way of auditing the supply, and politicians will betray the trust of the users by debasing it. Also, we have no trust anchor with the 'official witless key', which presumably should be considered compromised in the above commit. It also seems to depend on the file hosting services of a large software company for distribution of its public keys.
The problem with these straw man arguments is they often miss the entire point of the technology, and folks read them and walk away without understand exactly the problems the parodied technology solves.
This does have some humorous points, but generally leaves the reader with a confused and incorrect view of how both the USD and cryptocurrencies work.
https://github.com/william-fields/witless/commit/dc4a429b721...
The problems with this 'witless' proposal is that we have no way of auditing the supply, and politicians will betray the trust of the users by debasing it. Also, we have no trust anchor with the 'official witless key', which presumably should be considered compromised in the above commit. It also seems to depend on the file hosting services of a large software company for distribution of its public keys.
The problem with these straw man arguments is they often miss the entire point of the technology, and folks read them and walk away without understand exactly the problems the parodied technology solves.
This does have some humorous points, but generally leaves the reader with a confused and incorrect view of how both the USD and cryptocurrencies work.
Check the name in the private key ;)
Ok, yeah I did think it was part of the joke.
Still tho, what is the point of this page? Is it trying to say 'you dont need a blockchain?' or 'this is a deliberately bad solution that is solved by a blockchain'?
Still tho, what is the point of this page? Is it trying to say 'you dont need a blockchain?' or 'this is a deliberately bad solution that is solved by a blockchain'?
Thanks, bestie
Next you will want a building in which to keep these objects, which will of course need heating and lighting (need I even start to compute the power cost…) and will take up real estate that could otherwise be used for apartments where people could literally LIVE!
You’ve also failed to account for right clickers (so named for the click of a camera shutter, normally triggered by a button to the right of the camera) who can simply take a picture of your object and trade it as they like… This will surely reduce the value of any one of your works to zero!
(In all seriousness, NFT’s gotta be stopped!)
You’ve also failed to account for right clickers (so named for the click of a camera shutter, normally triggered by a button to the right of the camera) who can simply take a picture of your object and trade it as they like… This will surely reduce the value of any one of your works to zero!
(In all seriousness, NFT’s gotta be stopped!)
This must explain the resurgence of Vinyl records; gotta have a physical music collection.
Creating physical art when it can be done digitally is a waste of resources
ngmi
Haha, love it. I wonder if the typo in this line was intentional:
> All transactions are manually entered by Roy to minimized mistakes.
I love that it looks like the 90s was
> By purchasing an NFT you have the right to say that you are the person that purchased that NFT.
Complete and accurate.
Complete and accurate.
Where's the smart contract capability? Smart contracts are important in certain applications, which is why I store purchases in XML and do transformative contracts in XSLT. Version 2.0 of XSLT is Turing-Complete, with the added advantage that XSLT syntax is a specialized form of XML, so I only have to use one syntax for coins and contracts. I call mine Dotcom Bubble Chain.
> I call mine Dotcom Bubble Chain.
It may or may not surprise you to find out that the U.S. Navy came ->this<- close to trying to standardize all data storage and data interchange on XML, in 2018, so that we could use XSLT and other XML technologies so that they could "Enable maximum use of commercial products built to this standard", "Improve cybersecurity at the data element layer by using the XML Security Assertion Markup Language (SAML) protocol", and "Enable compression of data using the XML EXI specification for efficient bandwidth usage over limited satellite communication channels".
It may or may not surprise you to find out that the U.S. Navy came ->this<- close to trying to standardize all data storage and data interchange on XML, in 2018, so that we could use XSLT and other XML technologies so that they could "Enable maximum use of commercial products built to this standard", "Improve cybersecurity at the data element layer by using the XML Security Assertion Markup Language (SAML) protocol", and "Enable compression of data using the XML EXI specification for efficient bandwidth usage over limited satellite communication channels".
> in 2018
That's quite a lag. Peak XML was probably 2000 if I recall correctly. That said, XSLT is pretty cool from a language standpoint. I wouldn't want to program in it all day anymore than I'd want to program all day in Brainfuck, but you have to admire the weirdness of it.
That's quite a lag. Peak XML was probably 2000 if I recall correctly. That said, XSLT is pretty cool from a language standpoint. I wouldn't want to program in it all day anymore than I'd want to program all day in Brainfuck, but you have to admire the weirdness of it.
have coded actual XSLT, I assure you that Turing completeness is a curse
Nah, they've been at that since at least 2005, when I worked there, and I'm pretty sure it was in their guidelines for years at that point. My guess is that they still have that in their guidelines.
For the most part, when doing a procurement, you'd just check a box that the software supported XML in some form (and many vendors added some stupid XML feature, even if their software didn't have a need for it at all), and it would satisfy that requirement.
For the most part, when doing a procurement, you'd just check a box that the software supported XML in some form (and many vendors added some stupid XML feature, even if their software didn't have a need for it at all), and it would satisfy that requirement.
I assure you the 2018 effort was separate and deliberate. Read the NAVADMIN yourself if you wish, https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Messages/NAVADMIN/N...
The Navy (and wider DoD) had also been pushing XML-based technologies earlier, of course, but that's less damning when it was happening when the entire IT industry was pushing those technologies.
The Navy (and wider DoD) had also been pushing XML-based technologies earlier, of course, but that's less damning when it was happening when the entire IT industry was pushing those technologies.
Meh, why use XSLT when you could use Lisp? It's also homoiconic and you can claim it involves AI.
I'm working on something even better. XMLambda (XMλ) implemented in Haskell, which is revolutionary and exciting such that I have investors throwing money bags of money over my backyard fence with a paper contracts attached (they don't trust other chains)
https://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/XMLambda
https://academickids.com/encyclopedia/index.php/XMLambda
Assuming Roy is smart, his manually entering transactions is the smart capability.
In the same vein: https://github.com/william-fields/witless
I have also built a site designed to poke a bit of fun at the idea of artificial scarcity on the internet: https://ipaidthemost.com/
Came up with it before NFTs, but it's only more relevant these days.
Came up with it before NFTs, but it's only more relevant these days.
That is amazing! We should create a network of these practical jokes
> How do I pay with cryptocurrency?
> Easy, you just need to convert it to USD first.
> Is this for real?
> Sure
> Is this performance art?
> Maybe?
Love it. I think Roy's making a killing off this.
> Easy, you just need to convert it to USD first.
> Is this for real?
> Sure
> Is this performance art?
> Maybe?
Love it. I think Roy's making a killing off this.
Cash is both ANONYMOUS and UNTRACKABLE.
Bitcoin is only ANONYMOUS.
Cash FTW!
Cash FTW!
No it’s not.. cash bills have tracking numbers on them.
This is amazing. It might actually make it easier for me to explain what NFTs actually are if they're completely separated from a blockchain and the rest of the malarkey.
I'm a huge NFT enthusiast and collector. This project gets NFTs exactly right. It's frankly refreshing to see someone seemingly get it - most of the critiques are just so bad. It's just that: I don't see the problem at all. I'd encourage you all to buy NFTs on CSVChain, ideally from real artists committed to their craft.
I'm disappointed that I read the headline wrong. I thought these NFTs were powered by CVS technology.
CVS blockchains are printed on one long continuous receipt and occasionally gives you $2.00 off NFTs if you have a CVS card.
This is roycoding, the creator of CSVchain. Thanks everyone for checking it out.
Just so you know, I currently have a bit of a backlog of requests to manually process.
This was all very unexpected. I made this recently and then today started getting messages that Matt Levine wrote about something similar in his newsletter today. I tweeted at him and he then tweeted about it to his large following. So here we are on HN!
If you've contacted me, I promise to message you back, but it might take a day or so.
Just so you know, I currently have a bit of a backlog of requests to manually process.
This was all very unexpected. I made this recently and then today started getting messages that Matt Levine wrote about something similar in his newsletter today. I tweeted at him and he then tweeted about it to his large following. So here we are on HN!
If you've contacted me, I promise to message you back, but it might take a day or so.
> By purchasing an NFT you have the right to say that you are the person that purchased that NFT.
Tell me more....
Tell me more....
I'm waiting for TXTCHAIN - NFTs backed by TXT technology.
I have one-upped TXTCHAIN with PAPERCHAIN. In order to ensure decentralization, I have a webcam pointed at my PAPERCHAIN paper ledger that is active at all times. Other PAPERCHAIN paper ledger node-people maintain the same setup, and they duplicate the changes I make to my PAPERCHAIN, and vice versa.
Longest latency in the game, invest before it’s too late.
Longest latency in the game, invest before it’s too late.
"Nothing will ever be prepended to this file" "we guarantee it"
Even better: Shiitcoin, a zero-free blockchain whose ledger is Google Sheets:
- https://github.com/nalinbhardwaj/shiit-coin
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dZpRryIuQ0Critical security flaw: right-clicking is enabled!
I don't understand why people view the ability to copy something as a negative with NFTs. Everything can be copied. Even physical objects can be copied. Why does a museum buy a Van Gogh when they can just commission a replica, or easier yet, take a photo and print it on canvas?
> Why does a museum buy a Van Gogh when they can just commission a replica, or easier yet, take a photo and print it on canvas?
A photo of a Van Gogh is not a Van Gogh. But JPEG bytes that SHA-256 to 97db5f2753176670ae8b2d8a2aad44d8bb830aee768629488685f4fc1d7a75f1 will also have a copy hash to the same value. The copy is the original, in a way you can't do with a Van Gogh.
NFT fans try to fix this by making something other than the art itself 'non-fungible', but in the real world it's the art itself that is fungible (and where it's not, such as buying a CD, you don't see people freaking out about how valuable their Taylor Swift RED album #22,724,123 is so special and unique).
A photo of a Van Gogh is not a Van Gogh. But JPEG bytes that SHA-256 to 97db5f2753176670ae8b2d8a2aad44d8bb830aee768629488685f4fc1d7a75f1 will also have a copy hash to the same value. The copy is the original, in a way you can't do with a Van Gogh.
NFT fans try to fix this by making something other than the art itself 'non-fungible', but in the real world it's the art itself that is fungible (and where it's not, such as buying a CD, you don't see people freaking out about how valuable their Taylor Swift RED album #22,724,123 is so special and unique).
Ah, but that only gives you the actual image, not the CSVCHAIN NFT that proves it is your image.
right clicks
inspects content
inspects content
Yeah. Like I said. You now have a copy of the image.
But prove to me that you are the one and only owner of your copy of the image.
That's what the CSV NFT gives you.
But prove to me that you are the one and only owner of your copy of the image.
That's what the CSV NFT gives you.
I'm not just copying the image, I'm editing the "Owner" table cell 8-)
Oh! You're the CSVCHAIN guy? Well then, your word is gold.
("Gold" is a fungible token used in primitive societies. One ounce of gold is as good as any other. What a strange concept!)
("Gold" is a fungible token used in primitive societies. One ounce of gold is as good as any other. What a strange concept!)
Wow, transaction confirmation times are really slow. I've been waiting for my purchase to go through for an hour now.
I know this is a gag, but it misses the point.
NFTs are interesting because they support smart contracts, use a cryptocurrency wallet system to manage value and ownership, can be minted in quantities > 1, support unlockable content, etc.
NFTs are interesting because they support smart contracts, use a cryptocurrency wallet system to manage value and ownership, can be minted in quantities > 1, support unlockable content, etc.
[deleted]
Amazing website! I think it also (inadvertently) paints a very clear value proposition as to why NFTs make more sense on a blockchain than on a central service.
[deleted]
Found this funny on the site, can you catch the pun.
"All transactions are manually entered by Roy to minimized mistakes."
For one helium-filled glorious moment I misread the title and thought the store for this was some exploitation of CVS receipts.
Not to be confused with the CVS CHAIN.
So, how do I mint these NFts that are backed using this technology?
This sounds a lot like Matt Levine's newsletter today (Money Stuff). So funny!
Yes it does. It's curious since he's listed as the first owner on this, and just announced he was making an Excelchain (like CSVchain but with Excel -- the more technology the better I guess?)
Matt Levine is a great writer. I have little interest in finance but enjoy his newsletter immensely. Highly recommended.
Matt Levine is a great writer. I have little interest in finance but enjoy his newsletter immensely. Highly recommended.
Totally different from ExcelCoin! CSVCHAIN is platform-independent.
they're in reverse chronological orders so Levine's was just added.
Is this a joke?
Are NFTs a joke?
It's a technically complete POC of NFTs, as far as I can tell.
Yes, this is an NFT.
Is it censorship proof?
Now this is a case where I’d use a blockchain like Ethereum instead
A4ET8a8uTh0(11)
Most NFTs are pretty much a scam, but:
This is the kind of joke for people that think they are clever but don't really understand the situation. Its kind an ignorant position, reminds me of a 'brb downloading RAM' joke. Or sending someone a plastic Bitcoin. or Faxing dollar bills.
Someone made a web site, ok. Guess we don't need fancy Blogging platforms now.
This is the kind of joke for people that think they are clever but don't really understand the situation. Its kind an ignorant position, reminds me of a 'brb downloading RAM' joke. Or sending someone a plastic Bitcoin. or Faxing dollar bills.
Someone made a web site, ok. Guess we don't need fancy Blogging platforms now.
I imagine the ownership rights granted by minting on CSV would hold up in court exactly as well as NFTs minted on OpenSea.
The RAM joke is quite obviously a joke because everyone knows that RAM chips are physical goods that are obviously finite in supply.
The RAM joke is quite obviously a joke because everyone knows that RAM chips are physical goods that are obviously finite in supply.
You don't even need a cryptographic signature if it goes to court. It helps, but not specifically required. Also, a court has no power to overturn a blockchain transaction - unless they have a bunch of miners and energy to rewrite the chain.
Some other differences include append only nature of blockchains. I don't know the ledger has not been modified or reordered or had entries removed. Also if the author doesn't like you, he could ignore your transactions or even drop the entry from the CSV. With say, Ethereum, you would be able to know all these things up front.
Some other differences include append only nature of blockchains. I don't know the ledger has not been modified or reordered or had entries removed. Also if the author doesn't like you, he could ignore your transactions or even drop the entry from the CSV. With say, Ethereum, you would be able to know all these things up front.
C'mon now.
The point of this joke site is to say "look NFTs are just a set of records", while missing the whole point of
trustless, censorship resistant, append only, peer to peer ledgers
The thing is, we saw these jokes about Bitcoin 10+ years ago. Its easy to point fun at things that one doesn't really understand. I imagine lots of people see this joke and go "Ha! See! You dont need a blockchain" while missing the point entirely.
trustless, censorship resistant, append only, peer to peer ledgers
The thing is, we saw these jokes about Bitcoin 10+ years ago. Its easy to point fun at things that one doesn't really understand. I imagine lots of people see this joke and go "Ha! See! You dont need a blockchain" while missing the point entirely.
> The thing is, we saw these jokes about Bitcoin 10+ years ago.
The bulk of which are probably still valid today, but you can’t understand because you have conflated price with value.
The bulk of which are probably still valid today, but you can’t understand because you have conflated price with value.
> you have conflated price with value.
This is a key point of discussion. You and OP probably have very different definitions of value; you can be 100% right from your perspective and 100% wrong from theirs. And if that's the case, you need to unify your definitions of value before you can discuss the merits of anything built on top of that definition. Or just agree to disagree.
This is a key point of discussion. You and OP probably have very different definitions of value; you can be 100% right from your perspective and 100% wrong from theirs. And if that's the case, you need to unify your definitions of value before you can discuss the merits of anything built on top of that definition. Or just agree to disagree.
True. And good general advice.
Frankly I find it hard to do, when depending on who you’re talking to, the intended utility is not even definitive (e.g. a currency vs a “store of value”). Maybe this points at something larger.
Frankly I find it hard to do, when depending on who you’re talking to, the intended utility is not even definitive (e.g. a currency vs a “store of value”). Maybe this points at something larger.
The site certainly helps make the case for a blockchain.
"Send an email to kick off this manual process with lots of waiting for another human to do a thing, and once he has your money, he may or may not do what he said he would, and if he does, hope he types in your information correctly, and if he does, hope that the one copy of the ledger hosted on some guy's computer doesn't go down, and if it doesn't, hope you don't have to sell because the marketplace is charging 10% rent on transactions and you have no alternatives..."
"Send an email to kick off this manual process with lots of waiting for another human to do a thing, and once he has your money, he may or may not do what he said he would, and if he does, hope he types in your information correctly, and if he does, hope that the one copy of the ledger hosted on some guy's computer doesn't go down, and if it doesn't, hope you don't have to sell because the marketplace is charging 10% rent on transactions and you have no alternatives..."
This site is not trying to be some kind of meaningful commentary on NFTs and blockchains.
It is just to have fun!
Don't take my word for it, look at the hilarious comments in this discussion.
No one took it seriously and thought "NFTs are just a set of records" or "you don't need a blockchain."
It is just to have fun!
Don't take my word for it, look at the hilarious comments in this discussion.
No one took it seriously and thought "NFTs are just a set of records" or "you don't need a blockchain."
> censorship resistant
Not always.
Not always.
If you have something genuinely new or curious to say, great. Otherwise please move on.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html