Paul Oakenfold crowdsources a beat on beatlab(beatlab.com)
beatlab.com
Paul Oakenfold crowdsources a beat on beatlab
http://www.beatlab.com/ComeTogether
39 comments
If anyone out there is interested on working on beatlab with me, send me a note. [email protected].
Currently, beatlab.com is just me, but it is an incredibly fun project to work on. I'm based out of San Francisco.
Of course, It's fun to get to do projects with people like Paul Oakenfold. But it's also incredibly rewarding to interact with young kids on the site that have no preconceived notions of how music should be created, and to watch them progress on beatlab.
Currently, beatlab.com is just me, but it is an incredibly fun project to work on. I'm based out of San Francisco.
Of course, It's fun to get to do projects with people like Paul Oakenfold. But it's also incredibly rewarding to interact with young kids on the site that have no preconceived notions of how music should be created, and to watch them progress on beatlab.
Hi Jon, I've been working as a DJ for 10 years so here is my experience from sifting through thousands of mix tapes/CDs/USBs/Soundclouds.
1. If you want to force people to listen to the whole thing then by all means force them too, but it will decrease engagement from people checking it out quickly. 2. Things I listen to first from a song, intro, chorus, breakdown, outro. If you're using Grids then this could even be marked out. If you have a waveform then this makes it easier and you can look to see the structure from the get go. 3. One thing to be aware of is that if music tastes do change (ie non-quantised music such as Electronic Dance Music) then your market could deacrease as I imagine you're placing yourself in the market as a online version of what Fruityloops was to kids back in the 2000's.
1. If you want to force people to listen to the whole thing then by all means force them too, but it will decrease engagement from people checking it out quickly. 2. Things I listen to first from a song, intro, chorus, breakdown, outro. If you're using Grids then this could even be marked out. If you have a waveform then this makes it easier and you can look to see the structure from the get go. 3. One thing to be aware of is that if music tastes do change (ie non-quantised music such as Electronic Dance Music) then your market could deacrease as I imagine you're placing yourself in the market as a online version of what Fruityloops was to kids back in the 2000's.
Hey Jon. Kudos for diving into this on your own and getting it off the ground like that. I suggest you focus on a mobile/tablet app next, it seems like a good fit for the product.
But one thing that precludes my own participation is, that beatlab is essentially a walled garden :-S. While this may be a fun app that brings kids closer to music, it's just impossible to attract serious musicians to a web-based step sequencer with no download options whatsoever. The Facebook login doesn't help either.
I've intentionally ripped the Come Together vocals and am going to use them in a way that even YouTube infringement algorithms aren't able to fingerprint. Just for the sake of truly creating something new out of the samples \o/.
I hope you understand that this is nothing personal, it's just the true everything-is-a-remix mentality that's prevalent among music makers on forums, SoundCloud and the like. If that's the crowd you'd eventually like to attract, that's the mindset you'll have to get accustomed to and support with beatlab's features.
But one thing that precludes my own participation is, that beatlab is essentially a walled garden :-S. While this may be a fun app that brings kids closer to music, it's just impossible to attract serious musicians to a web-based step sequencer with no download options whatsoever. The Facebook login doesn't help either.
I've intentionally ripped the Come Together vocals and am going to use them in a way that even YouTube infringement algorithms aren't able to fingerprint. Just for the sake of truly creating something new out of the samples \o/.
I hope you understand that this is nothing personal, it's just the true everything-is-a-remix mentality that's prevalent among music makers on forums, SoundCloud and the like. If that's the crowd you'd eventually like to attract, that's the mindset you'll have to get accustomed to and support with beatlab's features.
Please feel free. Every mixed down track on the site comes with a download button, but that may not be clear. I still don't provide a way to download individual samples, but that's not because I'm philosophically opposed to it. Lot's of people just "right click, inspect element" and that's fine.
I agree regarding facebook. I plan on offering soundcloud and google logins as well.
I agree regarding facebook. I plan on offering soundcloud and google logins as well.
Hey Jon. Just to let you know your site doesn't work at all on mobile. The page will load and then redirect me into a page telling me I need flash. I just want to read a blog post an not interact with your site. At least not til I get home
Hey Jonathon,
What kind of projects are you looking to have people work on? And/or what skill sets of are looking for?
What kind of projects are you looking to have people work on? And/or what skill sets of are looking for?
I'm primarily looking for design and coding skills. Over the next year I'm going to be evolving beatlab to allow for the composition of full length production quality songs. I'd also like to involve more artists and producers along the way.
Many hit hip-hop and electronica songs could have been composed on something similar to beatlab. The amount of additional complexity required is minimal.
For example, one project is to create another area of the site for laying down vocals over a beat. The grid is a poor metaphor for these kinds of things. The vocals will by recorded separately, and then independently synced up with any other grid on the site.
Another project is to allow for the arrangement of grids into a basic song structure. For example, there should be the intro grid, the chorus grid, etc..
Many hit hip-hop and electronica songs could have been composed on something similar to beatlab. The amount of additional complexity required is minimal.
For example, one project is to create another area of the site for laying down vocals over a beat. The grid is a poor metaphor for these kinds of things. The vocals will by recorded separately, and then independently synced up with any other grid on the site.
Another project is to allow for the arrangement of grids into a basic song structure. For example, there should be the intro grid, the chorus grid, etc..
Let me know if/when you'll be looking for a designer, this looks like something I'd be interested in contributing to.
Definitely. Send me a note. [email protected]
It's amazing how much work has gone into this site. Nice job.
Fantastic job on the track editing UI! The thing I missed from the Explore & Community pages is a progress bar for the currently playing track. I really wanted to see how long the track was, how far through I am, and maybe skip forward to see how the middle & end sounds (a waveform would be nice to let me see where the peaks are, but not essential) without listening to the entire track. I liked that starting a new track stops the currently playing one so you don't get music hell - so many sites get that wrong! :-)
Oh, and congrats on getting Paul Okenfold on board, some coup!
Oh, and congrats on getting Paul Okenfold on board, some coup!
Thanks sc00ter! I like the progress bar idea. I might also add a way to comment on a track right from the play button. People love getting comments and feedback.
Its nice, but I didn't like how "save" means "share". When I logged in with facebook, it told me it wouldn't post to my wall or access my data, so I wasn't expecting it to share my tune under my real name (I wouldn't have clicked save if I'd have known).
When you save a track, there is a little "lock" icon below where you type in the track name. You can use this to mark a track as private. Sorry, that should be more clear.
Ok, I see it now. I suggest a tooltip-style balloon popup that tells users that they can change visibility by clicking the lock. Now that I know about it, though, I'm pretty happy :)
One other suggestion tough, once a track has been saved, there doesn't seem to be a way to change the privacy settings (eg, to make my track private, I basically edited it, deleted the original and resaved - if there is a simpler way, it isn't clear what it is).
Other than that, I like it. I think its still a little simplistic, but its an excellent start and you did say that you have a ton more planned - great work! I'll be looking forward to seeing this progress.
One other suggestion tough, once a track has been saved, there doesn't seem to be a way to change the privacy settings (eg, to make my track private, I basically edited it, deleted the original and resaved - if there is a simpler way, it isn't clear what it is).
Other than that, I like it. I think its still a little simplistic, but its an excellent start and you did say that you have a ton more planned - great work! I'll be looking forward to seeing this progress.
Would love to interview you about this on whiteraverrafting.com. We're an edm blog and our audience will jump on this!
[email protected]
[email protected]
I haven't seen such a broken site (for me) in a few years.
a) I visit the page
b) I get redirected to http://www.beatlab.com/flash_blocked.html
c) I click on the blocked flash to unblock it, like on every other site.
d) I get a "Flash has been unblocked! You may continue to beatlab."
e) I click the link and end up at a)
:(
a) I visit the page
b) I get redirected to http://www.beatlab.com/flash_blocked.html
c) I click on the blocked flash to unblock it, like on every other site.
d) I get a "Flash has been unblocked! You may continue to beatlab."
e) I click the link and end up at a)
:(
It is truly annoying that you have to totally whitelist their domain even after step D in order to see the site. Some of us want to selectively enable each flash applet, dangit. #KidsGetOffMyLawn
It's actually going to be a pretty common problem as we see more and more interfaces being built _visually_ for HTML5, while audio will lag behind due to the non-standard implementations in everything but Chrome. We'll start seeing more and more libraries that do audio heavy lifting in Flash, but expose their functionality over ExternalInterface. So where do you put a small Flash applet that Flash-blocking power users might need to click on, but otherwise shows no graphics whatsoever? How do you make it easy/big-enough for Flash blockers to click, but unobtrusive enough to not intercept any DOM elements?
I'd love to see a replacement for SWFObject that just brings up a modal dialog in the case where Flash is blocked, allowing you to click-to-enable the applet.
I'd love to see a replacement for SWFObject that just brings up a modal dialog in the case where Flash is blocked, allowing you to click-to-enable the applet.
Indeed. I'm very much looking forward to ditching flash on beatlab.com when I can.
The HTML WebAudio API isn't quite there yet, but it's making great progress. It is already deployed in Chrome, with releases in Safari and iOS on the way. I actually have a branch going that uses the WebAudio API to mix sounds and doesn't rely on flash at all.
The HTML WebAudio API isn't quite there yet, but it's making great progress. It is already deployed in Chrome, with releases in Safari and iOS on the way. I actually have a branch going that uses the WebAudio API to mix sounds and doesn't rely on flash at all.
Opera's built-in plugin blocker has a clickable icon in the address bar, which enables all plugins on the page.
Sooo you come to a site requiring flash with a add on flash blocker and complain it doesn't support you well... Maybe you're doing it wrong. If you can't get your own custom modules to work either don't use them or figure out how to use them better, don't get mad at someone else for not supporting your custom setup better.
I could turn off javascript and spend all day criticizing websites, I don't think any one would give too much care.
I could turn off javascript and spend all day criticizing websites, I don't think any one would give too much care.
The only thing that's "broken" here is that the site redirects you before you have any chance to enable plugins for the page.
Your Javascript comparison is inaccurate, no one is demanding the site should work without Flash. If a site redirected you before you could click on noscript (or whatever Javascript blocker) to load all scripts, I bet you there would be a lot of complaints.
Your Javascript comparison is inaccurate, no one is demanding the site should work without Flash. If a site redirected you before you could click on noscript (or whatever Javascript blocker) to load all scripts, I bet you there would be a lot of complaints.
All flash blockers let you cherry pick which flash you want to unblock. This means you can unblock content, but keep spam or other cpu wasters blocked.
This website does not let me do that. It redirect to a different page, and forces me to white list everything. Something I rarely do.
This website does not let me do that. It redirect to a different page, and forces me to white list everything. Something I rarely do.
I haven't seen such a broken site (for me) in a few years.
That's quite hard on a one-man show which is in the edge of not requiring flash, for requiring flash.
I would reserve such harsh criticism for sites I have to visit and which are not even intended to work: city council, theatre box office, local public library. Heck, even the London Olympics user experience was broken, I read.
That's quite hard on a one-man show which is in the edge of not requiring flash, for requiring flash.
I would reserve such harsh criticism for sites I have to visit and which are not even intended to work: city council, theatre box office, local public library. Heck, even the London Olympics user experience was broken, I read.
Thanks for the support, I appreciate it. The non-flash experience does leave a lot to be desired. As you know, I always have to weigh investing time improving it vs improving something else. But I realize that isn't much consolation to the end user.
One of the difficult parts is actually detecting if flash is blocked at all. If the user has Google Chrome's built-in plugin blocker, I don't think it's possible to distinguish between a blocked plugin or a slow loading plugin.
One of the difficult parts is actually detecting if flash is blocked at all. If the user has Google Chrome's built-in plugin blocker, I don't think it's possible to distinguish between a blocked plugin or a slow loading plugin.
I don't think you need to bother. People who have flash blockers know that they have flash blockers. We see dull gray squares all over the internet.
Exactly this.
I'm not implying I'm entitled to special handling, just stating the fact that this page, unlike any other with flash I've used in the last years, doesn't let me use my flash blocker in the usual way - I would have to whitelist the page.
wink, you have to unblock flash for the www.beatlab.com domain, not just the flash_blocked.html page. Sorry for the confusion.
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Nice job guys! Good to see Beatlab is alive and well.
Congrats Jon B! ^^
EDIT: I see that beatlab call it that as well.