Principles of Slack Maximalism(aelerinya.substack.com)
aelerinya.substack.com
Principles of Slack Maximalism
https://aelerinya.substack.com/p/the-10-principles-of-slack-maximalism
56 comments
We do a version of this at work. It’s the most productive I’ve felt as an engineer.
I had never worked on slack until this spring when I joined a company that used it. I don’t get what all the fuss is about. It is just an IM client?
Honestly I preferred Google hangouts because they were better integrated with my email.
Channels as far as I can tell are a mix of group chats or replacements for mass email distribution lists. Nothing special.
Also point 7in this blog is truly insane. The whole point of a dm is I don’t want others to see it.
Honestly I preferred Google hangouts because they were better integrated with my email.
Channels as far as I can tell are a mix of group chats or replacements for mass email distribution lists. Nothing special.
Also point 7in this blog is truly insane. The whole point of a dm is I don’t want others to see it.
Yes, it’s just an IM client. Like all in history, what matters is whether it can post images and whether other tools are integrated with it. Another generation will invent a new one and suddenly all app will say “Insert your $nextGenChat key here”.
You can rebuild a chat client, but you can’t make up for popularity. Atlassian tried twice: Once with HipChat, once with Stride, and failed at both - like everything Atlassian does, I know, but you have to admit they are popular in corporates.
Also, it’s so vastly better than MS Teams. But Discord is so vastly better that a lot of companies use it, despite it being aimed at communities.
You can rebuild a chat client, but you can’t make up for popularity. Atlassian tried twice: Once with HipChat, once with Stride, and failed at both - like everything Atlassian does, I know, but you have to admit they are popular in corporates.
Also, it’s so vastly better than MS Teams. But Discord is so vastly better that a lot of companies use it, despite it being aimed at communities.
This whole piece is just weird.
> Each member of the staff has their own channel, in which they give updates on their work status, ask questions of other teammates, notify of their unavailability, share their uncertainties and thoughts on the program.
When a piece of work require input from two persons, should I ask in project channel or channel of person A or channel of person B?
> Each resident has their own channel, in which they talk to their coach, ask questions of the team, request improvements to their room or writing setup or just generally throw anything they want someone to look at.
If I want input from my coach and not discuss in public, why not DM but channel?
> Each member of the staff has their own channel, in which they give updates on their work status, ask questions of other teammates, notify of their unavailability, share their uncertainties and thoughts on the program.
When a piece of work require input from two persons, should I ask in project channel or channel of person A or channel of person B?
> Each resident has their own channel, in which they talk to their coach, ask questions of the team, request improvements to their room or writing setup or just generally throw anything they want someone to look at.
If I want input from my coach and not discuss in public, why not DM but channel?
Yeah this just sounds like they want something like mastodon or similar scream-into-the-void apps for sharing things people don't want to read
"There's a particular ideology uniting the [Inkhaven] bloggers involved that isn't actually declared on the page"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44819849
(Protip for confused skim-readers: This is called context. It helps you understand the rationale for why a group - not a company - might enjoy having 150 Slack channels with such intense micromangement. Ctrl-F for "Inkhaven", then look up Inkhaven, Lightcone Infrastructure, and LessWrong.)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44819849
(Protip for confused skim-readers: This is called context. It helps you understand the rationale for why a group - not a company - might enjoy having 150 Slack channels with such intense micromangement. Ctrl-F for "Inkhaven", then look up Inkhaven, Lightcone Infrastructure, and LessWrong.)
The context should be included in the piece. Also, when I reach a page chock-full of low-quality AI images [1], I assume the contents are also AI slop and stop reading.
[1] https://www.inkhaven.blog/about
[1] https://www.inkhaven.blog/about
ok but what does this have to do with anything? (really asking)
I'm a chat maximalist (we all are going to be as agents improve), but this article makes the idea look bad. Chat should be the interface, not the system of record.
"Principle 3: Use Channels as Work Queues"
Hence why lots of people hate Slack now - it just becomes a ticketing system, and it ends up being a not-particularly-good one.
Hence why lots of people hate Slack now - it just becomes a ticketing system, and it ends up being a not-particularly-good one.
I wish they’d just display chat lines as cards, for queue channels, with a clear status, search JQL, and allow external apps (if they want) to sync those items with Jira.
Meanwhile it feels like half my colleagues don't understand the difference between starting a new Teams conversation ("thread" in Slack), or replying to an existing one. And there's no way to move a message that was posted in the wrong conversation. AFAIK it's the same with Slack threads.
Getting people to post in the "correct" channel faces similar challenges.
Imagine the chaos that would result if we ran everything through Teams.
Getting people to post in the "correct" channel faces similar challenges.
Imagine the chaos that would result if we ran everything through Teams.
Prescriptivism rarely improves communication, so consider changing your expectation rather than policing others.
> Prescriptivism rarely improves communication
What does?
What does?
Incentives and asking yourself how are you contributing to the communication problem?
This is one of those posts where I cannot work out if this is earnest or satire. I kept waiting for a punchline but I don't know if it ever came. Makes me suspect the whole thing was the punchline.
I took it seriously and wrote up the reply that came from my gut: https://substack.com/@zackmaril/note/c-185137941
Why does one really need a slack channel to ask people if they want to go for a walk? Why not walk around and ask people if they want to take a walk?
Why does one really need a slack channel to ask people if they want to go for a walk? Why not walk around and ask people if they want to take a walk?
Remote team?
Do remote teams take walks together ;)
Maybe if they are also using AR glasses and bring slack with them... They need a currently taking a walk channel.
Ah, how silly of me to overlook that option.
If you think about it "dog/whatever walking together" on a huddle could work quite well.
[deleted]
It seems serious. I can only imagine it’s referring to a pretty small company. I suppose it can be tempting to do everything with one tool.
I’ve seen some slack maximalism before, like using Slack as a primary operations platform - sending alerts and so forth to it, and nowhere else. But then that company hired a real engineering manager.
I’ve seen some slack maximalism before, like using Slack as a primary operations platform - sending alerts and so forth to it, and nowhere else. But then that company hired a real engineering manager.
im not sure what you mean - bigger companies also use the slack maximalist approach.
I’m not just talking about heavy use of slack, I’m talking about maximalism as described in the article. Larger organizations will typically have several different systems to perform many of the functions described in the article, and it generally wouldn’t make sense to replicate that functionality, but worse, in slack. It would quickly become unmanageable, because slack simply isn’t designed for that. Heck, slack is barely designed for its own core functionality - e.g. its thread support is incredibly limited.
It is really too bad that "Slack" (the application) is the antithesis of "Slack" (the SubGenius philosophy):
In the satirical Church of the SubGenius, Slack is the ultimate goal: a state of blissful, lazy freedom from work, responsibility, and societal pressure, achieved by rejecting "Normal" conformity and embracing conspiracy, self-delusion, and "Bulldada" (bullshit) to attain personal liberation, money, and effortless success, with the mustachioed avatar J.R. "Bob" Dobbs as the ultimate guide to this spiritual laziness. Key Aspects of Slack:
Anti-Work/Anti-Conformity: Slack means escaping the "compulsive urges" of modern life, like working, saving money, and trying to be "normal".
Effortless Achievement: It's the ability to get what you want (wealth, status, love) without effort, often through bizarre, pseudo-occult means or by exploiting the system.
Conspiracy & Weirdness: Slack is tied to uncovering hidden truths (aliens, conspiracies) and embracing abnormality, separating believers from the "Normals".
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs: The iconic, pipe-smoking, suited figure is the living embodiment of Slack, a shortcut to financial heaven and a life of ease.
"Hour of Slack": This is the name of the SubGenius radio show, broadcasting their anti-establishment message and teachings on achieving Slack.
How to Get Slack (According to the Church): * Join the Church of the SubGenius and pledge allegiance to Bob. * Use "Bulldada" (bullshit) and "Morealism" (more bullshit) to overcome problems. * Learn "occult technology" and incantations for financial power. * Reject mainstream pressures and embrace your inner weirdness.
Essentially, Slack is a satirical take on the American dream, promising ultimate success and happiness through utter laziness and rebellion against the very systems that create the need for such a shortcut.
...and it being "the season" - if you live in any city larger than 30K, look for an announcement of the "drunken Santa pub crawl". That is a global annual event the SubGenius put on every year, where mobs people in Santa outfits swarm bars for a 24 hour period, often over a hundred Santas.
In the satirical Church of the SubGenius, Slack is the ultimate goal: a state of blissful, lazy freedom from work, responsibility, and societal pressure, achieved by rejecting "Normal" conformity and embracing conspiracy, self-delusion, and "Bulldada" (bullshit) to attain personal liberation, money, and effortless success, with the mustachioed avatar J.R. "Bob" Dobbs as the ultimate guide to this spiritual laziness. Key Aspects of Slack:
Anti-Work/Anti-Conformity: Slack means escaping the "compulsive urges" of modern life, like working, saving money, and trying to be "normal".
Effortless Achievement: It's the ability to get what you want (wealth, status, love) without effort, often through bizarre, pseudo-occult means or by exploiting the system.
Conspiracy & Weirdness: Slack is tied to uncovering hidden truths (aliens, conspiracies) and embracing abnormality, separating believers from the "Normals".
J.R. "Bob" Dobbs: The iconic, pipe-smoking, suited figure is the living embodiment of Slack, a shortcut to financial heaven and a life of ease.
"Hour of Slack": This is the name of the SubGenius radio show, broadcasting their anti-establishment message and teachings on achieving Slack.
How to Get Slack (According to the Church): * Join the Church of the SubGenius and pledge allegiance to Bob. * Use "Bulldada" (bullshit) and "Morealism" (more bullshit) to overcome problems. * Learn "occult technology" and incantations for financial power. * Reject mainstream pressures and embrace your inner weirdness.
Essentially, Slack is a satirical take on the American dream, promising ultimate success and happiness through utter laziness and rebellion against the very systems that create the need for such a shortcut.
...and it being "the season" - if you live in any city larger than 30K, look for an announcement of the "drunken Santa pub crawl". That is a global annual event the SubGenius put on every year, where mobs people in Santa outfits swarm bars for a 24 hour period, often over a hundred Santas.
"mustachioed"
I think that is just a shadow on badly reproduced J.R. likenesses.
I too was hoping that the OA would be an application of the principles of slack to corporate organisation. We may be getting old.
I think that is just a shadow on badly reproduced J.R. likenesses.
I too was hoping that the OA would be an application of the principles of slack to corporate organisation. We may be getting old.
Yeah. I was expecting something that was, well, actually slack, and instead I got the conspiracy.
You mean this? https://youtu.be/5gzvhNquXRs
Right.
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@@@BBBBM@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@This list is what happens when you try to use/shoehorn the wrong tool for the job.
I actually came here thinking it was about Slackware Linux. I always forget, because I have never had to use it, that slack is an IM app.
I actually came here thinking it was about Slackware Linux. I always forget, because I have never had to use it, that slack is an IM app.
God almighty.
If you want to go in that direction, why not do all of this in a ticketing system with live collab features like Linear?
Yeesh. Slack can be used well and poorly, but this sort of overcategorization is definitely on the poor side of things. Sounds like a hypermicromanager boss. Not a great work optimization for anyone who didn’t invent the entirely arbitrary system of categorization.
Well…
> Coming from a background of using Notion or Google Doc for everything
I think that says it all.
> Coming from a background of using Notion or Google Doc for everything
I think that says it all.
I was hoping this would be about https://thezvi.substack.com/p/slack
Slack is an awful ticketing system, there are many better ones, many with slack integrations even, if you're dead set on using one of the worse IMs out there for everything
Slack would be good tool if it would let me just stream and filter straight from the CLI.
Since IRC allows to do this with almost zero setup I'd rather see it used in my fantasies where non-technical people aren't considered for choice of tooling ;)
Since IRC allows to do this with almost zero setup I'd rather see it used in my fantasies where non-technical people aren't considered for choice of tooling ;)
I think the API makes this possible for anyone who wants it enough.
Unless there is something new Slack doesn't have personal APIs but merely integration APIs and history extraction was a big violation list time I checked. I doubt anything had changed in this scope though.
Reads like principles of deep work minimalism
I'm not sure if this is real or ironic
Nope to all of this. It’s impossible to get everyone to follow the rules. I also dislike Salesforce and what Slack has become. Less slck if you please.
As a Slack user - this post terrifies me. It sounds like a laundry basket with a bunch of stuff taped into piles with label stickers on them.
screams incoherently
greenchair(1)
This got me thinking though. Instead of turning your chat into a ticketing system, has anyone ever turned the ticketing system into a chat?
Like instead of “comments” on a ticket, you get a live chat channel (that can be reviewed later as “comments” for historical data).
Most companies I’ve worked for will setup channels on slack in a similar fashion for projects and initiatives but these are not really ergonomic for someone that prefers to “live” in the ticketing system for work management. And context gets lost the older things get.
You could pair this with a general channel for unfocused chitchat, but all relevant work would be discussed under the work item itself. Perhaps a “slack-like” view where you can see all your watched work items at once in “channels”.