Freenet Renamed to Hyphanet(hyphanet.org)
hyphanet.org
Freenet Renamed to Hyphanet
https://www.hyphanet.org/freenet-renamed-to-hyphanet.html
24 comments
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg5527...
Trouble does seem to be brewing.
Trouble does seem to be brewing.
Freenet: created by Ian Clarke in 1999
Freenet 2023: created by Ian Clarke in 2022-2023
Honestly I find it difficult to sympathize with people who get so attached to a system that they can't deal with being labeled as using the old version when the creator of that system wants to improve it 20 years later.
He has similar broad goals for the new system and I say every right to use the name. Why would people get so bent out of shape about being Freenet 1.0 and having a 2.0 exist now?
It would be different if the other developers involved with Freenet over the years had significantly modernized it or created a new paradigm, but that's not the case.
When people fail to adapt it makes me think they have cognitive limitations.
Freenet 2023: created by Ian Clarke in 2022-2023
Honestly I find it difficult to sympathize with people who get so attached to a system that they can't deal with being labeled as using the old version when the creator of that system wants to improve it 20 years later.
He has similar broad goals for the new system and I say every right to use the name. Why would people get so bent out of shape about being Freenet 1.0 and having a 2.0 exist now?
It would be different if the other developers involved with Freenet over the years had significantly modernized it or created a new paradigm, but that's not the case.
When people fail to adapt it makes me think they have cognitive limitations.
I remember the Gnutella vs. Gnutella 2 debacle.
That was pretty and crippled Gnutella quite badly — even though Gnutella 2 actually had similar goals as Gnutella.
That’s the historical precedent. You can learn from it and avoid such steps, or you can ignore it.
Keep in mind that Locutus does not have privacy as a goal: if it harms the original Freenet like "Gnutella 2" harmed Gnutella, then privacy on the web suffers.
That was pretty and crippled Gnutella quite badly — even though Gnutella 2 actually had similar goals as Gnutella.
That’s the historical precedent. You can learn from it and avoid such steps, or you can ignore it.
Keep in mind that Locutus does not have privacy as a goal: if it harms the original Freenet like "Gnutella 2" harmed Gnutella, then privacy on the web suffers.
Are you aware that besides websites the original Freenet / Hyphanet of today provides convenient media-streaming, social networking, hidden pseudonymous email, forums, and interactive chat?
That its spam-control is significantly faster than earlier thanks to improvements for a university thesis?
That it’s performance has increased a lot due to improvements in the networking layer?
That its spam-control is significantly faster than earlier thanks to improvements for a university thesis?
That it’s performance has increased a lot due to improvements in the networking layer?
I'm mildly surprised to discover freenet is still in development, I remember when it had just been launched, and that it was somewhat terrible to use compared to same-era p2p software, tho of course it had a much bigger vision then most (all?).
Is anyone running a node these days? What is your experience and reason?
Is anyone running a node these days? What is your experience and reason?
I’ve checked it out a few times. It suffers from the same issue that tor suffers from: half of the content is stuff that’s been booted off the internet (and for good reason), and the other half is the equivalent of “hello world” pages.
I keep hoping that one day we’ll have a true “alt-net” like mastodon and Lemmy are starting to form, but for the most part these services (freenet/tor/etc) are dead or full of unsavory or illegal material.
I keep hoping that one day we’ll have a true “alt-net” like mastodon and Lemmy are starting to form, but for the most part these services (freenet/tor/etc) are dead or full of unsavory or illegal material.
Gemini (inspired by gopher) has been this alternative web for computer enthusiasts for a while now, not a lot of content but there's no JS and no ad networks, perfect for digital neoluddites!
> Gemini mailing list (down due to hardware failure)
Seems like it needs a bit more work. It does seem to be interesting, but what’s the point of a network with no one on it?
Seems like it needs a bit more work. It does seem to be interesting, but what’s the point of a network with no one on it?
If you think "has a mailing list" is a useful indicator for activity in 2023 open-source I have bad news for you.
Among other things, it's better than "join our disc*rd"
Agreed. At this point, if support or discussion for something is disc*rd only, I will look for something else.
I've been trying to use Gemini via Lagrange Browser several times, but I've never found a site a or a use-case that sticks. What sites do you use on Gemini, and how is it best to find new content there?
Same experience. Got interested because I love the simply web, love text only sites, love sites that use no JS and so on and Gemini looked promising and very interesting but after a bit I started wondering what’s the point.
Having a simple site with no ads and no js is just a matter of intention. We can have those on the web if people really wanted to.
Having a simple site with no ads and no js is just a matter of intention. We can have those on the web if people really wanted to.
Yeah that's the reason I stay away from these things. They're searching for legit usecases and while these exist for sure, they mainly descend into a cesspool that nobody wants to associate themselves with, defeating the entire purpose.
I don't have the answer but freenet isn't it.
I don't have the answer but freenet isn't it.
The last time I took a foray into tor a year ago or so the top 10 sites were all selling drugs and stolen credit cards. Couldn’t find a single legitimate or non illegal thing on it. Uninstalled it after 10 minutes of browsing almost identical sites claiming they were the only legitimate meth/hitman/heroin sites on tor.
There are legitimate reasons to use tor, but onion sites don’t seem to be part of it, and when I’m evading censorship to watch Netflix or something I’d rather use a vpn.
There are legitimate reasons to use tor, but onion sites don’t seem to be part of it, and when I’m evading censorship to watch Netflix or something I’d rather use a vpn.
Freenet is a little bit different but the theme of most of the content is the same yes.
Freenet is more like a depository of documents, so you can't really host a site on it, there is no 2-way communication. In many ways it's a predecessor to ipfs.
Freenet is more like a depository of documents, so you can't really host a site on it, there is no 2-way communication. In many ways it's a predecessor to ipfs.
Arguably it's a technological solution (or temporary workaround) to a political problem.
In a liberal democracy, it makes sense that its use cases are mostly criminal, because the censorships it evades are mostly eroded by social reform. Those who are left are not hiding from censorship but from democracy.
However, when democracy and liberty are set aside, by fascism or war, these tools really shine. (E.g. BBSes being run on network printers during the wars in Europe in the 90's.)
In a liberal democracy, it makes sense that its use cases are mostly criminal, because the censorships it evades are mostly eroded by social reform. Those who are left are not hiding from censorship but from democracy.
However, when democracy and liberty are set aside, by fascism or war, these tools really shine. (E.g. BBSes being run on network printers during the wars in Europe in the 90's.)
There are around 3000 running nodes at any given moment.
I run one and Sone (social networking) and FMS (forums) are among my primary means of communication.
I use it to stream the creativecommons web series bloodspell because it is far too little known despite its awesomeness and this proves that streaming a series over Freenet / Hyphanet works.
Also Freesites these days aren’t slower than newspaper sites anymore — though part of the reason is that newspapers are crippled with advertisements and surveillance misfeatures. A well-made website on the clearnet is faster, but the typical site on Freenet / Hyphanet is no longer slower than the typical (ad-encumbered, heavy-JS-framework-loading) site on the clearnet.
As a user put it nicely: Freenet / Hyphanet: the internet that should have been.
I run one and Sone (social networking) and FMS (forums) are among my primary means of communication.
I use it to stream the creativecommons web series bloodspell because it is far too little known despite its awesomeness and this proves that streaming a series over Freenet / Hyphanet works.
Also Freesites these days aren’t slower than newspaper sites anymore — though part of the reason is that newspapers are crippled with advertisements and surveillance misfeatures. A well-made website on the clearnet is faster, but the typical site on Freenet / Hyphanet is no longer slower than the typical (ad-encumbered, heavy-JS-framework-loading) site on the clearnet.
As a user put it nicely: Freenet / Hyphanet: the internet that should have been.
What's the canonical pronunciation of this?
I've had some interest in these projects over the years, but few offer any means to control the kind of content your node serves. This is intentional, of course, and any suggestion otherwise is heresy. If you want some privacy enhancing network, tell me how you intend to keep it clean.
By moving the decision what is accessed out from the storage layer and into the communication layer which enables fully decentralized blocking.
You’re not responsible for the encrypted chunks that your node serves just like you’re not responsible for the money your ISP pays for the internet backbone.
But you are responsible for the people you recommend, so when you get information about something illegal, you are responsible to block them in your communication tool.
You’re not responsible for the encrypted chunks that your node serves just like you’re not responsible for the money your ISP pays for the internet backbone.
But you are responsible for the people you recommend, so when you get information about something illegal, you are responsible to block them in your communication tool.
The community doesn’t seem too pleased with this.