githubalphapapa

2 年前discuss

At first I thought that sounded great, but then I realized that that would exclude files that I want to be backed up, like `dir-locals-2.el`, which should be excluded from git, but should also be backed up. There doesn't seem to be a great solution to that in general.

githubalphapapa

2 年前discuss

> The official spec is a combination of hundreds of tiny specs and extensions, akin to XMPP.

You could say the same thing about any specification that involved multiple features.

> There may be one single reference, but it's constantly evolving.

So is HTML. But one of my Matrix clients from 7 years ago still works. How well would a 7-year-old Web browser work on today's Web? Could you use a 7-year-old version of a third-party Discord client?

> In a best case scenario, sure. The Discord version of your example would just be "Hello, world" without any of the other JSON.

So Discord encodes the message type in the URL instead of the body. So what? It has to go somewhere, and I'd generally rather have URLs include less, not more.

I actually messed up earlier: The `type` field is included in the event as seen after sending. The sent event could just be, e.g.

    {
        "content": {
            "body": "Hello, world.",
            "msgtype": "m.text"
        }
    }

I can't see anything to complain about there. (Sure, I'd prefer Lisp expressions over JSON, but come on.)

> In practice, you need to deal with a whole range of message types with various references and slight variations.

Is the same not true for Discord? It supports a variety of message types as well, and Discord also constantly evolves the system and adds new features (every time I log on to it I'm bombarded with news of updates, yet I still can't find a way to view a simple list of "servers" I'm in by names instead of by unintelligible icons).

> In practice, you need to deal with a whole range of message types with various references and slight variations. Inner Matrix message bodies are essentially freeform, which makes Matrix quite powerful but also difficult to deal with compared to the "different HTTP endpoint per request type" approach Discord takes.

That seems to conflate two issues. And I don't see how it's more difficult to deal with than any key-value store in any program. You collect the values from the keys you care about. That's it. Every Matrix event has certain basic fields in common. A few are specific for message type (e.g. a filename field for a file or image upload event). Where's the problem? Destructuring incoming data is probably the easiest part of writing a messaging client.

> Sure, if you accept having your users install two different apps, one for encrypted chat and one for group chats.

I use unencrypted 1:1 chats as well (in which case it's no worse than IRC or Discord, where the server operator could read your messages).

I think that's pretty cool, frankly: that a modern system with well-audited end-to-end encryption still allows it to be used optionally. You're not required to deal with the complexity of key management and session verification if you don't need or want it. Matrix lets me choose.

And I can choose my homeserver or run my own. Can you run your own Discord server (actual server)?

The only significant appeal I see for Discord is the existing user base. Well, that didn't save AOL. I guess we'll see how it turns out.

githubalphapapa

2 年前discuss

> Matrix has a billion different standards

There is one specification, available on the official site. It isn't, and never will be, required to implement all of it.

> a complex message format

It is a very simple format. Here's an example message (as sent by a client; additional fields are added by the server, such as server-side timestamp):

    {
        "content": {
            "body": "Hello, world.",
            "msgtype": "m.text"
        },
        "type": "m.room.message",
    }

> and encryption to deal with

This is also optional. If you want to talk in unencrypted public rooms, for example, you needn't bother with it.

The spec is so simple that you can send a Matrix message from a shell with curl. It's just JSON over HTTP.

githubalphapapa

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