The Future of OmniOS(lists.omniti.com)
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The Future of OmniOS
https://lists.omniti.com/pipermail/omnios-discuss/2017-April/008699.html
18 comments
My understanding of what happened to OpenSolaris after Sun/Oracle abandoned/closed the project is:
Illumos develops the base/core for open source OpenSolaris based derivative distributions of which OmniOS is one of about 11 or so.
It seems to me, unfortunately, that since there are so many OpenSolaris descendant distros, and that Linux can only barely sustain 3 large commercially supported general purpose distros (Redhat, Ubuntu & Suse, but please correct if I am wrong), that there has to be some amount of consolidation that needs to/will take place if OpenSolaris/Illumon is to survive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos#Current_distributions
It seems to me, unfortunately, that since there are so many OpenSolaris descendant distros, and that Linux can only barely sustain 3 large commercially supported general purpose distros (Redhat, Ubuntu & Suse, but please correct if I am wrong), that there has to be some amount of consolidation that needs to/will take place if OpenSolaris/Illumon is to survive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illumos#Current_distributions
I'm just an outsider to the Illumos community so take this with a grain of salt, but based on what I gather from checking it time to time I don't think this is the main reason.
11 is just the number of currently active distributions and is not meaningful for getting an idea of where the most stuff happens (By the same logic Distrowatch lists 288 active Linux distributions). There is only few main distributions with most mindshare (SmartOS, OpenIndiana and OmniOS. Nexenta is also a big one but I heard they don't get along well with the upstream).
Illumos is the upstream base and AFAIK Illumos community and distribution communities are indeed in tight relationship where the contributions to individual distributions find their way into the base not a long time later. And as a project it has a larger scope compared say, just the Linux kernel. It is the kernel, drivers, base libraries, core utilities etc. so developers on these different areas still belong to same tight community.
11 is just the number of currently active distributions and is not meaningful for getting an idea of where the most stuff happens (By the same logic Distrowatch lists 288 active Linux distributions). There is only few main distributions with most mindshare (SmartOS, OpenIndiana and OmniOS. Nexenta is also a big one but I heard they don't get along well with the upstream).
Illumos is the upstream base and AFAIK Illumos community and distribution communities are indeed in tight relationship where the contributions to individual distributions find their way into the base not a long time later. And as a project it has a larger scope compared say, just the Linux kernel. It is the kernel, drivers, base libraries, core utilities etc. so developers on these different areas still belong to same tight community.
I think you nailed my point. Linux (according to Distrowatch) has 288 distros, and there are only 3 large scale commercially supported distros (for linux), so my question is in the world can illumos support more than one? What open source lets competing organisations do is collaborate on shared projects.
Linux distributions are very similar to each other. Having package management as the main thing that sets them apart.
In illumos land these different distributions exist because they have very different design goals and visions.
But I agree that the illumos community is also a lot smaller and maybe (sadly) too small for each distribution to be commercially successfull. I'm extremly sad about this announcement as OmniOS is a great operating system and the team behind it did a fantastic job. As a user I like the minimal setup and clear stable releaes.
From what I've read the community is now thinking of possibly consolidating with OpenIndiana for that usecase. So while having less commercial supporters is a pity the community is determined to keep pushing forward.
In illumos land these different distributions exist because they have very different design goals and visions.
But I agree that the illumos community is also a lot smaller and maybe (sadly) too small for each distribution to be commercially successfull. I'm extremly sad about this announcement as OmniOS is a great operating system and the team behind it did a fantastic job. As a user I like the minimal setup and clear stable releaes.
From what I've read the community is now thinking of possibly consolidating with OpenIndiana for that usecase. So while having less commercial supporters is a pity the community is determined to keep pushing forward.
What I'm trying to say is there is no 1to1 comparison between a Linux distribution and an Illumos one because of different structuring of upstream base and tighter community. But I don't disagree even when this considered 3 distros still may be significantly more detrimential than 1.
Sad but understandable. I certainly recognise the divergance he mentions between the goal of it being a high-scale web computing platform, versus the ZFS storage server that many people (myself included) actually use it for. I suspect most people using an Illumos distro to do the former are running Joyent's SmartOS instead, and this leaves the OmniTI folks in a difficult position - how much time and resource ought they devote to (for example) integrating Joyent's work on running Linux containers, and to what end?
OmniOS currently does support lxzones
https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/LXZones
https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/LXZones
Sounds like tough times for OmniTI. They recently announced they were canceling their Surge conference as well.
https://omniti.com/remembers/2017/every-good-surge-must-come...
https://omniti.com/remembers/2017/every-good-surge-must-come...
> OmniTI will be suspending active development of OmniOS
...
> We still run quite a bit of infrastructure on OmniOS and expect to continue contributing
I'm not sure how to interpret this. They will simultaneously suspend development and continue contributions? That seems contradictory.
...
> We still run quite a bit of infrastructure on OmniOS and expect to continue contributing
I'm not sure how to interpret this. They will simultaneously suspend development and continue contributions? That seems contradictory.
That means it will probably be limited to bugfix/maintenance efforts.
For those (like me) who have never heard of OmniOS, it's an extension of Illumos (which is a fork of Open Solaris):
https://omnios.omniti.com
https://omnios.omniti.com
This is sad who knows what Samsung will do with SmartOS, OmniOS was very solid option.
I'm hoping that Samsung will open more of it up to open-source the interesting bits that they don't plan to sell themselves... Not sure where this will go, or if Samsung plans to expand/create their own Joyent based cloud. It does seem to be a great OS combination for Docker containers though.
All of the bits with the exception of the customer-facing portal are already open-source:
SmartOS: https://github.com/joyent/illumos-joyent and https://github.com/joyent/smartos-live
Triton (the orchestration around it): https://github.com/joyent/triton - this is the root repository of the project, there are many services which are linked to here: https://github.com/joyent/triton/blob/master/docs/developer-...
SmartOS: https://github.com/joyent/illumos-joyent and https://github.com/joyent/smartos-live
Triton (the orchestration around it): https://github.com/joyent/triton - this is the root repository of the project, there are many services which are linked to here: https://github.com/joyent/triton/blob/master/docs/developer-...
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Is the dupe story detector not working?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14171295
An unfortunate name. Omnius was one of the thinking machines that grew in strength and size to the point that it nearly wiped out humanity.
http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Omnius
http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Omnius
Times have changed, and Linux (now at 4.10) now does have an answer to each of these, particularly:
- ZFS: ZFS on Linux, now part of Ubuntu. btrfs has been coming along as well, and I included a couple of btrfs performance analysis screenshots in my DockerCon talk last week, since we're testing it.
- DTrace: enhanced BPF now provides the raw features (as of Linux 4.9), and is merged in the Linux kernel (unlike SystemTap etc).
If illumos were proposed today, I would not get behind it as I no longer think it makes sense when you're comparing it to Linux 4.10. It's no longer 2010.
Good luck to everyone moving on. I've published a lot on debugging and tracing on Linux, which should be helpful.