Why I am moving to Cleveland(coreysnipes.com)
coreysnipes.com
Why I am moving to Cleveland
http://coreysnipes.com/moving-to-cleveland/
80 comments
I've worked downtown for a few years and I really don't think your comments are entirely accurate. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth but by no means would I say that it is downtown is dirty (there are some less fortunate spots just outside of the city). I ride the light rail RTA to work every day from ~20 miles out and consistently get to work at about the time. I don't ride the buses so perhaps that is the issue. I would agree that there isn't a lot to do but characterizing all of downtown as a parking lot is a little rough. Progressive, Key, AmTrust, Sherwin-Willaims, Parker-Hannifin, Eton are all Fortune 500 and in the area and have nothing to do with the medical industry.
I rode the light rail from east side to downtown every day for two years. It's dirty. West side to downtown may be another story.
Does the Blue line still break down sometimes in the winter due to ice on the wires? That happened to me once going from downtown to the end of the blue by Shaker.
The fun part was when the electricity began to arc and we could see a bit of fire on the top, but also couldn't leave the train because we might have gotten electrocuted, so our choices were to sit around and wait, potentially burning alive, or make a run for it and potentially get electrocuted.
I think I was too tired to care at that point in the morning (5am?) so I just sat annoyed that I'd miss the bus to work and read up on IBM Websphere. Not sure if that had anything to do with my lingering distaste for IBM Websphere, but I'm sure it didn't help.
The fun part was when the electricity began to arc and we could see a bit of fire on the top, but also couldn't leave the train because we might have gotten electrocuted, so our choices were to sit around and wait, potentially burning alive, or make a run for it and potentially get electrocuted.
I think I was too tired to care at that point in the morning (5am?) so I just sat annoyed that I'd miss the bus to work and read up on IBM Websphere. Not sure if that had anything to do with my lingering distaste for IBM Websphere, but I'm sure it didn't help.
I live in UC. I leave from the Little Italy stop. The train is extremely clean. Someone who has also lived in NYC. The trains are magnitudes cleaner in Cle than NYC.
Weird, that's the EXACT one I rode. Plus, the stairway up to the train stand that overlooked those contemporary condo's always smelled like piss 5+ years ago .... NOT CLEAN! Glad they have been cleaned up since.
Pretty sure that station has recently been rebuilt, the one at the foot of Cedar Hill certainly has. The last five years have seen a lot of new buses, as well, although I'm not sure how true that is once you get a little further away from the health-tech corridor and University Circle.
Little Italy station is brand new. There was one on border of East Cleveland and UC that was very sketchy. It's now gone.
Also GE Lighting, The Fed, Philips Healthcare, several startups bought by IBM, Glenn NASA, etc...
Also Sherwin WIlliams.
I don't think I'd go so far as to say the whole city is "extremely dirty" but it did have some of the dirtiest mass transit I've ever seen.
Cleveland seems to have all of the drawbacks of living in Columbus or Cincinnati without any of the benefits those cities provide, such as the much lower crime rate in both Cinci/Columbus and the more walkable neighborhoods/downtown area in Columbus.
Cleveland seems to have all of the drawbacks of living in Columbus or Cincinnati without any of the benefits those cities provide, such as the much lower crime rate in both Cinci/Columbus and the more walkable neighborhoods/downtown area in Columbus.
Columbus is a more fun city if you are young, but Cleveland's advantage is that its healthcare is much better than either and so are its cultural institutions. Cleveland has elite museums, a well-known orchestra and a several playhouses. And if you are into professional sports, it's obviously you're best choice (except if you like professional football).
I don't know if I'd say that Cincinnati offers much over either one.
I don't know if I'd say that Cincinnati offers much over either one.
I disagree about RTA comment. I take the 55 almost everyday and it is super clean. The city used to be dirty, but has been rejuvenated from public square to the east bank. It's really bike friendly as far as transportation goes as well.
It is definitely more bike friendly than some cities, that's true. Plenty of bike lanes have been added the last few years.
Regarding the cleanliness, (parts of) the flats and public square have gotten better but that's only two small areas and is the extent of the cleanup. I drive past the steel yard every day for my commute and you can not have your windows down or let any outside air in all along 77 because the smell is so disgusting.
Regarding the cleanliness, (parts of) the flats and public square have gotten better but that's only two small areas and is the extent of the cleanup. I drive past the steel yard every day for my commute and you can not have your windows down or let any outside air in all along 77 because the smell is so disgusting.
> I drive past the steel yard every day for my commute and you can not have your windows down or let any outside air in all along 77 because the smell is so disgusting.
You might already know this but you're also driving past a wastewater treatment plant, and through a pretty sparsely populated area. It's not representative of the metropolitan area as a whole.
You might already know this but you're also driving past a wastewater treatment plant, and through a pretty sparsely populated area. It's not representative of the metropolitan area as a whole.
Id also have to disagree on the RTA bit. They're pretty well run here in Dayton.
Good (terrible?) before/after animation of a parking crater in Cleveland: http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/03/05/seeking-submissions-th...
That parking lot comment has to be one of the best characterizations of American downtown areas I've heard. Well said.
I'd rather have parking than fighting to find it!
Parking has an opportunity cost.
Parking takes up space and costs money to build, which could have been used for something else. There is always a balance between having parking and having an abundance of bars, restaurants, offices, and living spaces within any given area.
Parking takes up space and costs money to build, which could have been used for something else. There is always a balance between having parking and having an abundance of bars, restaurants, offices, and living spaces within any given area.
I'd rather people walked or biked instead....
To be fair, the public transit he's moving from, RTD, isn't always great either. It just filed a fourth extension to get the automated crossings working on the new commuter train. Until then the crossings are being manned by flaggers.
Honestly I just wanted to complain about RTD. I used to live in the midwest, it was nice. Cheap housing!
Honestly I just wanted to complain about RTD. I used to live in the midwest, it was nice. Cheap housing!
The last sentence of this post perfectly describes Austin, Texas.
I wonder how many people commit to moving to a city without actually knowing more then what their tourist board puts out.
You mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY
I grew up in Springfield, MA — and I was seeing similar red flags reading his post about Cleveland. Springfield also has a very clean heart of downtown, but it's a total ghost town after 5pm and really only has one significantly sized employer (there are also museums and good places to eat in Springfield). "Clean" means nothing for a downtown area.
Real estate is also very cheap because no one wants to live there (few jobs, violence) and people struggle to upkeep the very large houses from the times when Springfield was actually prosperous.
Real estate is also very cheap because no one wants to live there (few jobs, violence) and people struggle to upkeep the very large houses from the times when Springfield was actually prosperous.
Cleveland is by no means a large city, but the Metropolitan population is probably 4-5 times that of Springfield, MA. Also, Cleveland peaked in population 60+ years ago, so the housing stock is relatively old and cheap, and the cultural landmarks are outsized for a city it's size. Like Detroit, the suburbs were more prosperous than the city center, although there is massive resurgence happening downtown with breweries, restaurants, and art galleries popping up everywhere. There are many large, lofty buildings that are incredibly cheap (like Chicago's West Loop 30 years ago). Overall it seems like a turnaround story similar to Pittsburgh and Detroit.
As someone who just spent the last 4 years in Cleveland (for school), I want to comment on professional environment of the city for those interested in tech careers. The number of companies is pretty low, and the professional environment is far more conservative/traditional than what you'd see in the big tech hubs. Also if you look at BLS data, there is a below average number of tech jobs when compared to other economic regions.
The kinds of industries that dominate in NE Ohio are either advanced chemical manufacturing and medicine through the Cleveland Clinic.
Other comments both positive and negative:
The RTA is pretty bad, but it isn't bad at all by American public transportation standards.
The city has amazing opportunities within the arts for a city of it's size, the museums are really great and free. Additionally, the Cleveland orchestra is relatively cheap to attend and they are one of the best orchestras in the world. Lastly, big acts and shows do come to playhouse square.
Cleveland has some really great public events, Bright Winter and Ingenuity Fest are absolutely amazing. It has an amazing food scene that is constantly expanding, where waiters at top restaurants can also afford a home in the city.
Lastly, for a city that is constantly ranked as one of most out of shape cities in the country, people are so incredibly passionate about this place. In bigger, more global cities, there is less of a desire among the general population to improve the community at large. In Cleveland, everyone is on the same team.
Overall, if you are a person who likes small cities (I personally am not), Cleveland is a pretty great choice overall, especially if cost of homeownership is an important factor in the city you choose to live in.
The kinds of industries that dominate in NE Ohio are either advanced chemical manufacturing and medicine through the Cleveland Clinic.
Other comments both positive and negative:
The RTA is pretty bad, but it isn't bad at all by American public transportation standards.
The city has amazing opportunities within the arts for a city of it's size, the museums are really great and free. Additionally, the Cleveland orchestra is relatively cheap to attend and they are one of the best orchestras in the world. Lastly, big acts and shows do come to playhouse square.
Cleveland has some really great public events, Bright Winter and Ingenuity Fest are absolutely amazing. It has an amazing food scene that is constantly expanding, where waiters at top restaurants can also afford a home in the city.
Lastly, for a city that is constantly ranked as one of most out of shape cities in the country, people are so incredibly passionate about this place. In bigger, more global cities, there is less of a desire among the general population to improve the community at large. In Cleveland, everyone is on the same team.
Overall, if you are a person who likes small cities (I personally am not), Cleveland is a pretty great choice overall, especially if cost of homeownership is an important factor in the city you choose to live in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM
Jokes aside, it's odd that OP is lumping Cleveland in with other 'mid-west' cities. They all have their own very different characters.
Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh...all very different.
Also most of the top 30-40 American cities have similar minimum amenities. A theatre, downtown with restaurants, light rail. I don't think that should surprise anyone. It's just the breadth/depth of options they offer that differs.
Jokes aside, it's odd that OP is lumping Cleveland in with other 'mid-west' cities. They all have their own very different characters.
Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh...all very different.
Also most of the top 30-40 American cities have similar minimum amenities. A theatre, downtown with restaurants, light rail. I don't think that should surprise anyone. It's just the breadth/depth of options they offer that differs.
Jokes aside, it's odd that OP is lumping Cleveland in with other 'mid-west' cities.
As an outsider (I'm from NC) I have always thought of Cleveland as a "rust belt" city first and foremost. I tend to assume Cleveland has more in common with, say, Pittsburgh, Charleston WV, Detroit, etc., than what I think of as a more stereotypical "mid-west" city like Kansas City, St. Louis, or even Chicago.
But of those, Chicago is the only one I've spent any significant time in, so I may be way off. Anybody from one of those areas care to comment? Is the "rust belt" identify meme a strong factor to locals? More or less so than being considered "mid western"?
As an outsider (I'm from NC) I have always thought of Cleveland as a "rust belt" city first and foremost. I tend to assume Cleveland has more in common with, say, Pittsburgh, Charleston WV, Detroit, etc., than what I think of as a more stereotypical "mid-west" city like Kansas City, St. Louis, or even Chicago.
But of those, Chicago is the only one I've spent any significant time in, so I may be way off. Anybody from one of those areas care to comment? Is the "rust belt" identify meme a strong factor to locals? More or less so than being considered "mid western"?
Been to Chicago a few times and it's much different than Cleveland(Lived there for 4 years). Cleveland is more similar to Pittsburgh than Chicago. People in Cleveland associate with both the rust belt identity and the Midwest identity.
> Is the "rust belt" identify meme a strong factor to locals? More or less so than being considered "mid western"?
reply
I imagine the "rust belt" moniker is something people identify with - or reject as being derogatory, which always struck me as funny - more than the "midwestern" label, which people in Cleveland probably regard more as a mere geographical distinction. That's just a guess, though.
I don't think it's odd that the OP was lumping Cleveland in with other midwestern cities, though. I would say that Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh (and why leave out Detroit? or even Buffalo?) all share some DNA in the same way Boston, Philadelphia, New York, and Baltimore do.
I imagine the "rust belt" moniker is something people identify with - or reject as being derogatory, which always struck me as funny - more than the "midwestern" label, which people in Cleveland probably regard more as a mere geographical distinction. That's just a guess, though.
I don't think it's odd that the OP was lumping Cleveland in with other midwestern cities, though. I would say that Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh (and why leave out Detroit? or even Buffalo?) all share some DNA in the same way Boston, Philadelphia, New York, and Baltimore do.
I really see nothing in common with Chicago and Cleveland. Especially not down to their 'DNA'. Chicago is a globally recognized metropolitan city...that's their DNA.
Cleveland is a blue collar town with its roots in industrial manufacturing and oil.
Chicago has always been a diverse metro area focussed on finance, technology, academia.
Cleveland is a blue collar town with its roots in industrial manufacturing and oil.
Chicago has always been a diverse metro area focussed on finance, technology, academia.
It's ironic that if you were going to pick nits with my "common DNA" comment that you'd balk at the comparison between Chicago and Cleveland in particular. One thing that struck me when walking through Graceland Cemetery was how many of the earliest settlers [0] of Chicago were from Northeast Ohio, so there is literally DNA in common there. Of course, it's obvious that that sort of thing has continued throughout the cities history, if you think of how migrants entered the country in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries and moved westward.
[0] http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/eternal-silence
> I really see nothing in common with Chicago and Cleveland.
I assume you haven't spent much time in both. (edited down a longer comment since, really, who cares...)
[0] http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/eternal-silence
> I really see nothing in common with Chicago and Cleveland.
I assume you haven't spent much time in both. (edited down a longer comment since, really, who cares...)
I've spent a lot of time in Chicago and a little time in cleveland. I have no clue how anyone can think they're similar cities. I think most Chicagoans would be offended if you said 'oh chicago and cleveland are so similar!'
> I have no clue how anyone can think they're similar cities.
They're midwestern American cities on the Great Lakes with the same climate and roughly the same geography and ethnic makeup. It's not like you're comparing Florence and Reykjavik, for heaven's sake. I'm fascinated by your reaction to this comparison.
(If you're interested in a less information-free exchange on the topic: my reaction the first time I visited Chicago years ago was roughly "so this is how Cleveland might have ended up if they'd had their shit together 100 years ago." It's not really accurate - there are some economic reasons why Cleveland's decline was predestined - but feel free to explain to me why it's a completely crazy reaction.)
> I think most Chicagoans would be offended if you said 'oh chicago and cleveland are so similar!'
That's not exactly what I said... although, seriously, most of my friends in Chicago aren't quite so easily offended.
They're midwestern American cities on the Great Lakes with the same climate and roughly the same geography and ethnic makeup. It's not like you're comparing Florence and Reykjavik, for heaven's sake. I'm fascinated by your reaction to this comparison.
(If you're interested in a less information-free exchange on the topic: my reaction the first time I visited Chicago years ago was roughly "so this is how Cleveland might have ended up if they'd had their shit together 100 years ago." It's not really accurate - there are some economic reasons why Cleveland's decline was predestined - but feel free to explain to me why it's a completely crazy reaction.)
> I think most Chicagoans would be offended if you said 'oh chicago and cleveland are so similar!'
That's not exactly what I said... although, seriously, most of my friends in Chicago aren't quite so easily offended.
Even knowing the geographical size of my country, I always mentally lump everything from Cleveland through St. Louis and up to Green Bay as a 3 hour drive from each other. I'm from Texas... this is how I picture things sometimes:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/a9/e0/63a9e09cbfdf63f869d2...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/a9/e0/63a9e09cbfdf63f869d2...
I lived there for several years. Nothing negative, you just run out of things to do/see rather quickly. Only so many times you can hit the same restaurants in Tremont, Ohio City, E. 4th, Coventry, etc.
Nothing negative to add, it's absolutely not a bad town and we enjoyed our time there, but at the end became VERY bored.
Nothing negative to add, it's absolutely not a bad town and we enjoyed our time there, but at the end became VERY bored.
You never run out of things to see if you never go AFK!
Cleveland has an interesting mixture of things that make it a very livable place: Very good restaurants (including one of the best Little Italy's in the country), elite healthcare and elite cultural institutions. The schools outside of Cleveland tend to be good, and there are good private school options within the city.
On the healthcare front, Cleveland can compete with anywhere in the world. On the cultural institution front, Cleveland is one of the best non-New York cities in the U.S., particularly with its orchestra, museums and plays.
If you can get a good job, why not? That's essentially the rub. I'm from Cleveland, and I live in DC, because the job market is much better. A lot of the older cities in the U.S. have good neighborhoods and cultural institutions. They need to find creative ways to get modern jobs.
On the healthcare front, Cleveland can compete with anywhere in the world. On the cultural institution front, Cleveland is one of the best non-New York cities in the U.S., particularly with its orchestra, museums and plays.
If you can get a good job, why not? That's essentially the rub. I'm from Cleveland, and I live in DC, because the job market is much better. A lot of the older cities in the U.S. have good neighborhoods and cultural institutions. They need to find creative ways to get modern jobs.
> They need to find creative ways to get modern jobs.
Woo remote workers?
Pass laws banning non competes?
Woo remote workers?
Pass laws banning non competes?
Banning non-competes, getting rid of laws banning municipal Internet, laying tons of fiber down, etc. Ohio has a bunch of good universities and thriving medical and biotech fields. There is no reason it doesn't have a bigger tech scene.
There is also no reason that Ohio doesn't have the best Internet in the country (or any other state). It's there for the taking for any governments that don't want to bow down to cable donations. Governments looking to woo startups (or get more home grown ones), would be wise to provide blazing fast and cheap Internet.
Cleveland, for instance, has Case Western Reserve University and is close to Ohio State, Pitt, Carnegie Melon, Notre Dame and more. Surely, there is a way to form partnerships and programs to harness that knowledge and talent.
There is also no reason that Ohio doesn't have the best Internet in the country (or any other state). It's there for the taking for any governments that don't want to bow down to cable donations. Governments looking to woo startups (or get more home grown ones), would be wise to provide blazing fast and cheap Internet.
Cleveland, for instance, has Case Western Reserve University and is close to Ohio State, Pitt, Carnegie Melon, Notre Dame and more. Surely, there is a way to form partnerships and programs to harness that knowledge and talent.
I know there are lots of Bay Area HNers. Here are some comments from a Clevelander who lived in Berkeley and worked in SF and Oakland for several years.
You will notice two things pretty quickly if you work here. First, and I don't know why more people don't mention this, the public libraries (in Cleveland and statewide in Ohio) are infinitely better than you are accustomed to. Second, while walking around downtown you will miss the human poop, humans pooping, and general human poop-related concerns that you might have grudgingly folded into your daily routine in SF. (I find the "dirty" comments below amusing)
Other than that, probably the best concise way to characterize it is: an extremely small version of Chicago with less distinguished architecture and a less developed waterfront (but better public parks and easier traffic), a couple of museums and a classical orchestra that are on par with NYC, food and theatre that is good but limited in scope, and hospitals that are as good as anywhere in the world. All the sort of postindustrial stuff you can read about the midwest applies to one degree or another to the larger metropolitan area. All the major league sports if you're into that sort of thing.
You will notice two things pretty quickly if you work here. First, and I don't know why more people don't mention this, the public libraries (in Cleveland and statewide in Ohio) are infinitely better than you are accustomed to. Second, while walking around downtown you will miss the human poop, humans pooping, and general human poop-related concerns that you might have grudgingly folded into your daily routine in SF. (I find the "dirty" comments below amusing)
Other than that, probably the best concise way to characterize it is: an extremely small version of Chicago with less distinguished architecture and a less developed waterfront (but better public parks and easier traffic), a couple of museums and a classical orchestra that are on par with NYC, food and theatre that is good but limited in scope, and hospitals that are as good as anywhere in the world. All the sort of postindustrial stuff you can read about the midwest applies to one degree or another to the larger metropolitan area. All the major league sports if you're into that sort of thing.
wow! didn't expect to see this - same reaction I and my gf had moving to Cleveland (here since July!). Surprisingly fun and plenty to do, not to mention the abundance of restaurants. Coming from a bigger city I didn't know what to expect, but this has been a great summer so far!
Winter is coming!
At least Cleveland isn't as flat as Chicago. You can find sledding and skiing hills fairly easily.
Refreshing to see software devs moving to average cities rather than the typical SF, NYC, Seattle, etc. Impressed by the "300 miles of all-purpose hiking and biking trails." I enjoy reading posts like this.
Fifty years ago when bad parts of Manhattan started to gentrify the people moving there were seen as outre. Now moving to a loft in a converted warehouse is desired by the most straight-laced college graduates. Those early urban pioneers, even if they were motivated by nothing else than low prices, eventually came to be seen as ahead of their time.
Now, living in Cleveland is more outre than living in SoMa, for a certain college-educated set. However the opportunity is immense as world population keeps growing and cities like Cleveland have great bones. Sure you have to trade some insider status to get a piece of these cities, but that's a plus for me.
Now, living in Cleveland is more outre than living in SoMa, for a certain college-educated set. However the opportunity is immense as world population keeps growing and cities like Cleveland have great bones. Sure you have to trade some insider status to get a piece of these cities, but that's a plus for me.
It will be interesting to see if remote work rejuvenates other parts of the country. You could buy a Victorian mansion in many parts of the country for less than a condo costs in the expensive cities.
Yes. I think we'll see some rejuvenation, but it also depends on other factors too.
* other job opptys (either remote or local, if the current job doesn't work out)
* quality of life (schools, recreation, weather, etc)Much of Cleveland is a dump. Close to 100 murders a year is a lot for a city of 400k. Lots of crime, high car insurance, it's just dreary looking and feeling like Milwaukee or Detroit. The white areas of Cleveland are pretty racist - it's a very segregated city, like most other large cities in the rust belt.
The murders mostly occur in places like East Cleveland or near Kinsman. These aren't places that people just visit. Why is Cleveland racist?
There was a huge migration of white people out of the city in the 1960s once they started bussing students between neighborhoods to improve diversity. In the following years, several suburbs have experienced similar 'white flight'. This might be changing, but it has a long way to go.
Regarding crime, I recently saw a map that showed a horrific level of lead poisoning in the urban Cleveland area children , most likely due to old housing stock.
Regarding crime, I recently saw a map that showed a horrific level of lead poisoning in the urban Cleveland area children , most likely due to old housing stock.
[deleted]
"Close to Family" seems to be one of the biggest reasons people move. Also, this personal connection seems to play a big role for many people:
A musician friend from Denver moved there last year and I didn’t notice. But this summer, she posted something on Facebook along the lines of “I expected to tolerate it, but I actually love it.” My interest was piqued. And the more I looked into it, the better it sounded.
A musician friend from Denver moved there last year and I didn’t notice. But this summer, she posted something on Facebook along the lines of “I expected to tolerate it, but I actually love it.” My interest was piqued. And the more I looked into it, the better it sounded.
Does anyone have suggestions for underrated (or upcoming) cities with a lot to offer and moderate real estate?
Complete speculation: outskirts of college towns, some of the inland mountain towns in northern California like Quincy. The southern ones (Big Bear, Idyllwild etc.) are already swarmed. Even with these towns, you'd probably have to find something in a less desirable area and wait a decade or two for it to be gentrified. Many hipster or super expensive places were once the "bad area" of a big city: Venice Beach, warehouse district of Los Angeles, Pioneer Square in Seattle. Full of bums, needles on the ground. Super cheap.
The older people I met who lucked out with massive appreciation on their properties just bought houses/condos in cheaper areas with decent locations (commuting distance to the city center), then lucked out when gentrification passed over. At the time they were very bland areas.
The older people I met who lucked out with massive appreciation on their properties just bought houses/condos in cheaper areas with decent locations (commuting distance to the city center), then lucked out when gentrification passed over. At the time they were very bland areas.
Kansas City is worth a look
I second this, if you can tolerate the Midwest winters.
Kansas City has plenty of industry (and great BBQ!) and is fairly clean. One downside is the lack of a light rail system.
The winters aren't too bad and I'd say pretty mild actually. You get more ice storms than snow in KC. It's not like Chicago or Minneapolis by any means. Lightrail expansion is coming in the next few years, which I think will officially take it out of the "toy project" state it is in now. I also think with the addition of the new airport KC will just blow up. It's already growing pretty rapidly.
A lot to offer in what way?
[deleted]
Columbus and Pittsburgh come to mind in the Great Lakes Region. Though Columbus home prices are at record highs they are still EASILY affordable for even a junior dev out of college (if you don't have crushing student debt). Nashville is another one on the radar as well. You could even probably swing something good in Detroit.
There's one phrase you'd better understand: lake effect snow. On that front Columbus is a much better alternative. That aside, there's a lot to like in this neck of the woods.
Has Columbus got any better in recent years at actually plowing the snow they get? The city used to get genuinely impassible a lot more often than Cleveland, in spite of getting a lot less snow overall.
Cleveland is great. The parkway off of detroit road in westlake gives a nice bike route that heads down near Strongsville and beyond.
I love cleveland and my family's all from there and it has the best bar in america (now that's class) but why do I care someone's moving from one podunk city to another? Cleveland is way cooler than denver, sure, but maybe not for this guy.
Sounds like a pretty solid case of "grass is greener on the other side". The bullet points in the article can be applied to every city, and Cleveland has the same problems that residents of these cities generally complain about.
Plus LeBron is leaving next year.
Plus LeBron is leaving next year.
Youtube the "hastily made Cleveland tourism video"
Everytime I see a "Why I am moving to ____ " or "Why I am leaving ____", I cringe. 9 out of 10 times, it's OP's specific situation that makes sense, but the articles paint a very generalized rosy picture of the destination or a very generalized terrible picture of the current city (ex: "SF Bay Area has gotten so expensive, commute is horrible, everything sucks.... so I'm moving to Austin, tech community is so great... blah blah..."
Agree, often the remarks are heavily opinionated & biased in favor of their own world view, change perspective a little & the whole set up might look awkward.
I've rarely seen a few articles(actually they exist) which talks in terms of data, verifiable facts, empirical evidence, and a forecast based on these.
I've rarely seen a few articles(actually they exist) which talks in terms of data, verifiable facts, empirical evidence, and a forecast based on these.
> I've rarely seen a few articles(actually they exist) which talks in terms of data, verifiable facts, empirical evidence
You will drive yourself nuts trying to understand the essence of a place based on that stuff. It's an extreme example, but can you imagine trying to convey the character of Venice by discussing crime rate, property values, taxes, commute times, and so on?
You will drive yourself nuts trying to understand the essence of a place based on that stuff. It's an extreme example, but can you imagine trying to convey the character of Venice by discussing crime rate, property values, taxes, commute times, and so on?
I think it's perfectly fine to express your opinion in such an article. Everyone's situation and perception are different. You may gain more by empathizing with their outlook than by poring over data about what the optimal living arrangement is.
Highly relevant: http://i.imgur.com/CfZnUDG.png
"The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
You mean, someone would just go out, and tell lies, on the internet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM
Jokes aside, it's odd that OP is lumping Cleveland in with other 'mid-west' cities. They all have their own very different characters. Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh...all very different.
Also most of the top 30-40 American cities have the same level of amenities. A theatre, downtown with restaurants, light rail. I don't think that should surprise anyone.
Jokes aside, it's odd that OP is lumping Cleveland in with other 'mid-west' cities. They all have their own very different characters. Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh...all very different.
Also most of the top 30-40 American cities have the same level of amenities. A theatre, downtown with restaurants, light rail. I don't think that should surprise anyone.
>clean, vibrant downtown area, ... good transit (including lightrail), a diverse economy
The city is extremely dirty and constantly has a very bad smell, and the RTA (public transit) is a disaster. The direct downtown area is essentially just a massive parking lot. The economy also consists entirely of the Cleveland Clinic and a few other large health care corporations. Not exactly what I'd call diverse.
Other than that it's pretty average, there are fun things to do but you're going to run out fairly quick.