Does Life End at 35? (2013)(web.archive.org)
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Does Life End at 35? (2013)
https://web.archive.org/web/20131101195131/http://kzhu.net/does-life-end-at-35.html
96 comments
Back home in my country, things are very different.
It's not like the fifty states north of Lake Okeechobee.
Where I grew up, most people have always been over 65.
And from someplace else to begin with.
You learn a lot more from diverse people who have gone through diverse decades in diverse places than you do from a social monoculture of similar age group to yourself.
Most retirees didn't bring their "children" with them, because their next generation was still up north with a career and family working toward retirement themselves.
So many younger northern people would visit (when under 65), but far fewer would eventually come to stay.
It's not so easy to sustainably remain in a relatively pure-consumer environment where you are supposed to have enough money to last the rest of your life before you make a move there.
However, there was still a significant contingent of formerly low-wage northern workers who did manage to build enough resources over their wage-earning life to be able to sensibly choose our locale when they reached 65.
At the other end of the spectrum, many of the other kids our own age were those whose parents had retired early, sometimes quite well off, or even born rich without much need for a career of any length. "Retired at 40" was much less common than 65, but still more significant than in most other places.
An interesting observation; so many people from both ends of the spectrum surprisingly ended up making most of their money after 65 than they did beforehand.
Even among those without more money than ever, there was still some degree of consensus that "life begins at 65".
It's not like the fifty states north of Lake Okeechobee.
Where I grew up, most people have always been over 65.
And from someplace else to begin with.
You learn a lot more from diverse people who have gone through diverse decades in diverse places than you do from a social monoculture of similar age group to yourself.
Most retirees didn't bring their "children" with them, because their next generation was still up north with a career and family working toward retirement themselves.
So many younger northern people would visit (when under 65), but far fewer would eventually come to stay.
It's not so easy to sustainably remain in a relatively pure-consumer environment where you are supposed to have enough money to last the rest of your life before you make a move there.
However, there was still a significant contingent of formerly low-wage northern workers who did manage to build enough resources over their wage-earning life to be able to sensibly choose our locale when they reached 65.
At the other end of the spectrum, many of the other kids our own age were those whose parents had retired early, sometimes quite well off, or even born rich without much need for a career of any length. "Retired at 40" was much less common than 65, but still more significant than in most other places.
An interesting observation; so many people from both ends of the spectrum surprisingly ended up making most of their money after 65 than they did beforehand.
Even among those without more money than ever, there was still some degree of consensus that "life begins at 65".
Your dad is my hero.
I just put your post in my yearly journal.
The article is about a case like your dad's, 92yo still working.
Dang you and your dad are both legends!
Yeah, this is a perfect example of Betteridge's law: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
> I am in my mid-60s, manage a machine learning team at a fine company, busy writing a new book, and getting close to being an investor in a new company.
I think you just proved OP's point. Seems like you have nothing going for you but work.
> My Dad is 96 and does 3D animation, makes movies and documentaries
This is a problem I have with modern american society. I wonder whether it would be better to give those resources to younger and more capable people who can actually make good movies and documentaries.
> and is still a member of the national academy of science.
People are members of NAS for life.
> Life ends either when one gives up learning and doing new things, or when our bodies finally wear out :-)
That's not what the guy was talking about...
But you've highlighted a lot of problems we have in our society. Too much resources and wealth have been "stolen" by the older generations like you and your father. And the younger generation are suffering from lack of opportunity and resources. I don't think this is very healthy for society over the long term. But I guess only time will tell.
I think you just proved OP's point. Seems like you have nothing going for you but work.
> My Dad is 96 and does 3D animation, makes movies and documentaries
This is a problem I have with modern american society. I wonder whether it would be better to give those resources to younger and more capable people who can actually make good movies and documentaries.
> and is still a member of the national academy of science.
People are members of NAS for life.
> Life ends either when one gives up learning and doing new things, or when our bodies finally wear out :-)
That's not what the guy was talking about...
But you've highlighted a lot of problems we have in our society. Too much resources and wealth have been "stolen" by the older generations like you and your father. And the younger generation are suffering from lack of opportunity and resources. I don't think this is very healthy for society over the long term. But I guess only time will tell.
I find myself thinking about this a bit lately.
When I was in high school I was a middle distance runner. I trained a bit harder than I should have. I was lucky to never have a significant injury that made me unable to run for more than a couple days, but there were definitely times when I felt burnt out, and I didn't compete after high school. Burnout, stress fractures and other roadblocks were very common among kids who ran more than eight miles a day, but many of us had this attitude that we had to take risks and push ourselves. I think we felt pressured because college wasn't far off, and we really only had one shot to go D1.
I'd troll a running forum called Dyestat a lot and there was this goon a grade above me who'd post questions every day about how he should structure his training (e.g. "is increasing 10% per week too much? How long should my long run be?"). The questions weren't bad questions, but everyone found them absurd because he'd run 10, maybe 15 miles in a week. How about spend time actually training instead of talking about training?
Because he took his boundaries so seriously, he increased his training load at a snail's pace -- I don't think he ran a 60 mile week before college. He improved consistently every year, never got injured, and never burned out. He went D2 (D1 > D3 > D2) and killed it. Now at 26 he runs 100+ mile weeks at 6:00 pace and tools on kids at the turkey trot every year. I check his twitter from time to time and it's clear he loves the sport as much as I did when I started.
I like to think that the difference was that he had a long-term goal that wasn't attached to some instantaneous outcome. He wanted to be able to push himself for the rest of his life, even if it meant waiting till past his prime to be any good.
I think in general if you make a change that's sustainable for the rest of your life, you win.
When I was in high school I was a middle distance runner. I trained a bit harder than I should have. I was lucky to never have a significant injury that made me unable to run for more than a couple days, but there were definitely times when I felt burnt out, and I didn't compete after high school. Burnout, stress fractures and other roadblocks were very common among kids who ran more than eight miles a day, but many of us had this attitude that we had to take risks and push ourselves. I think we felt pressured because college wasn't far off, and we really only had one shot to go D1.
I'd troll a running forum called Dyestat a lot and there was this goon a grade above me who'd post questions every day about how he should structure his training (e.g. "is increasing 10% per week too much? How long should my long run be?"). The questions weren't bad questions, but everyone found them absurd because he'd run 10, maybe 15 miles in a week. How about spend time actually training instead of talking about training?
Because he took his boundaries so seriously, he increased his training load at a snail's pace -- I don't think he ran a 60 mile week before college. He improved consistently every year, never got injured, and never burned out. He went D2 (D1 > D3 > D2) and killed it. Now at 26 he runs 100+ mile weeks at 6:00 pace and tools on kids at the turkey trot every year. I check his twitter from time to time and it's clear he loves the sport as much as I did when I started.
I like to think that the difference was that he had a long-term goal that wasn't attached to some instantaneous outcome. He wanted to be able to push himself for the rest of his life, even if it meant waiting till past his prime to be any good.
I think in general if you make a change that's sustainable for the rest of your life, you win.
Systems vs Goals comes to mind. Instead of him saying: "I'm going to run 60 miles a week", he said: "I'm going to increase x% every week".
Ultimately he won.
http://www.thelawproject.com.au/blog/scott-adams-on-systems-...
Ultimately he won.
http://www.thelawproject.com.au/blog/scott-adams-on-systems-...
Tiny improvements add up. The human mind (and body) is an incredible machine. You keep doing something, have a feedback loop, and it will automatically get better at it. In a few years, the transition in the skill level will almost feel magical.
Haha weird reading this here. I was a runner as well who ran at a lower-tier D1 school. Definitely burned out mentally, because I was always trying to train hard and find the "extra edge," when in reality the edge is a competitive mindset that is in the moment during races, pushing you exactly 100%. I read Letsrun way too much, and obsessed over the details when the right route was right in front of me the whole time.
Almost an analogy for life.
Almost an analogy for life.
Assuming D2 means NCAA Division 2? If so, why is it weaker than D3?
[deleted]
It's the same in lacrosse.
We tend to overestimate what we can achieve short-term and underestimate long-term.
Great anecdote.
Kind of like Turtle vs Hare
Kind of like Turtle vs Hare
I'm biased, but I have to say that as a gay male there seems to be much less rigidity around having to do something by a certain age. I'm guessing a large part of that is the fact that there's not really any societal expectations around marriage/having kids/settling down, which also plays a big part in the fact that your social life doesn't necessarily die down in your 30s and, in fact, you see many older gay men in their 40s, 50s+ in the same social circles or parties/events you might attend in your 20s or 30s.
It's actually incredibly freeing and makes me appreciate being gay even more the older I get (though still in my 20s)
It's actually incredibly freeing and makes me appreciate being gay even more the older I get (though still in my 20s)
I think the social stuff has become less rigid for everyone as society has progressed. I’m gay and in my 30s, but I know plenty of straight people my age who also aren’t doing the married-with-2.5-children thing, either. You mileage may vary depending on where you live, obviously.
So far, well, my 30s are better than my 20s, anyway.
So far, well, my 30s are better than my 20s, anyway.
Very true - just saying, on average, there are more societal pressures for straight people to do this and that by this age vs gay people. This may be more or less true depending on religious background, ethnic background, family, etc.
I'm all for anyone sticking it to the man and not doing anything they don't want to do.
I'm all for anyone sticking it to the man and not doing anything they don't want to do.
My father always told me that his 30s were the best years of his life. He was married to a good woman, he had two children, he was in the prime of life, with friends, family, athletic excellence, and a career that he loved. His 20s were a wasteland of disappointment, in comparison.
At nearly 29, with my own wasteland of twenty-something years in the rearview, I can only be optimistic about the future
As you should be; I think this kind of pondering also did not yet adjust for the new life of the elderly; my mother of 70 is healthier and more active than my granparents were in their 50s. And I see that all around me. Not only are you not even at 1/3rd of your life; you will reach close to 100% healthy and active (assuming western country and access to healthcare which is a lot to assume, but this is HN) so you should be optimistic and just do things you want while not staring at your age. Thinking about getting old and lost opportunities makes you old fast.
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Reading all these replies as a fellow-29 year old with a shit decade of loneliness, mistakes, and career in the crapper gives me hope.
I'm hitting 30 next month. I'm going to continue on my journey of learning, working remotely, traveling, and hopefully meeting a woman who loves me.
I'm hitting 30 next month. I'm going to continue on my journey of learning, working remotely, traveling, and hopefully meeting a woman who loves me.
You're only turning 30? You've got plenty of time, don't sweat it. The reality is that 30 isn't old. 40 isn't old, either. 60? When I was a kid, a 60 year old looked like an 80 year old does today.
You don't need someone to complete you, only to complement you.
You don't need someone to complete you, only to complement you.
Thanks for your kind words.
I try to remind myself that I'm still young-ish and have plenty of time but some days it's too rough.
I've seen everyone around me at least go through one loving relationship. I've never had someone who cared for me. When I look back at my relationships, none of them actually cared for me. Hell, even my own mother was abusive and told me she wished I was never born.
I know I don't need someone to complete me but I'm only human.
I try to remind myself that I'm still young-ish and have plenty of time but some days it's too rough.
I've seen everyone around me at least go through one loving relationship. I've never had someone who cared for me. When I look back at my relationships, none of them actually cared for me. Hell, even my own mother was abusive and told me she wished I was never born.
I know I don't need someone to complete me but I'm only human.
My 30s are way, way better than my 20s were.
Physically in better shape, married to a friend of 7 years, with a son & good family life, and financially on the way to FI/RE.
My 20s were a hellscape of drugs, loneliness, and debt. Pass!
Of course now the concern is being over the hill already :)
Physically in better shape, married to a friend of 7 years, with a son & good family life, and financially on the way to FI/RE.
My 20s were a hellscape of drugs, loneliness, and debt. Pass!
Of course now the concern is being over the hill already :)
I'm 53. Life didn't end for me at 35. Since then I've changed careers, raised two wonderful kids, launched a small but successful side business, and have greatly improved as a musician.
Hey Id definitely love to hear about how greatly improved as a musician? I picked up an instrument in my 20s and I feel like am plataeuing (I love playing the instrument and I love practising - and not just the easy stuff). The feeling is more about "so what now". How do you get past that existential question?
Not the OP but I know that feeling of one's skill as a musician plateauing. Your feeling of "so what now" is exactly the thing you need. When trying to acquire any skill, practice alone doesn't cut it, you need a practice + feedback loop. The feedback is what your "so what now" feeling is supposed to address. Feedback can be external, i.e. coming from fellow musicians or a teacher or internal i.e. you reflecting on how you can get better. Practice needs to be continuously altered according to feedback. To get better you'll need to practice better, also known as deliberate practice.
You'll need to try and push the envelope a bit, go busk and people will give you immediate feedback if something sucks. This will not be a gradual process, days of nothing clicking will be followed by a day when everything clicks into place, keep at it. Playing an instrument should feel like talking to a friend, any awkwardness is something you need to work on, that is the easiest way to get feedback on what needs to be added to you practice regime.
For me the same mental framework works for programming, or any other skill. As it turns out, trying to learn a musical instrument teaches you a lot about learning in general. For that alone it is a worthwhile endeavour :)
You'll need to try and push the envelope a bit, go busk and people will give you immediate feedback if something sucks. This will not be a gradual process, days of nothing clicking will be followed by a day when everything clicks into place, keep at it. Playing an instrument should feel like talking to a friend, any awkwardness is something you need to work on, that is the easiest way to get feedback on what needs to be added to you practice regime.
For me the same mental framework works for programming, or any other skill. As it turns out, trying to learn a musical instrument teaches you a lot about learning in general. For that alone it is a worthwhile endeavour :)
Do you have a chance to play in an ensemble? There's an old adage: "Try to play with musicians who are better than you." I was extremely lucky to fall into a sort of community band, full of really good musicians. It has been a challenge to keep up with the band. While it's not a professional group, it's managed by grown-ups, so it's well organized and the rehearsals are efficient.
In general, performing adds a dimension to your playing, even if it's not the hardest music that you've played. If you don't have time for a band, I know it sounds kind of corny, but retirement homes love to have musicians. Some have money, others don't. The joy that it brings to people who are lonely and of limited mobility is incalculable.
Also, +1 to the other comments in this chain.
In general, performing adds a dimension to your playing, even if it's not the hardest music that you've played. If you don't have time for a band, I know it sounds kind of corny, but retirement homes love to have musicians. Some have money, others don't. The joy that it brings to people who are lonely and of limited mobility is incalculable.
Also, +1 to the other comments in this chain.
Actually totally agree about playing in an Ensemble. I used to do this before I moved here. I had tons of folks to have jam sessions with. And that was an amazing way to improve as you had constant feedback and guidance. Now I am just finding it hard to get into a circle which is pretty much entrenched and closed. I am not sure if I have become less friendlier (i doubt it) or have people become less forgiving of "amateurs"!
Hmmm love the idea of playing in retirement homes. Definitely did not think about that! By the way what instrument do you pay?
Hmmm love the idea of playing in retirement homes. Definitely did not think about that! By the way what instrument do you pay?
As a musician in my mid 30s, I would say the most liberating thing was realizing that there’s a difference between being really good at an instrument and being a good musician. No amount of practicing your instrument will make you a good musician. For that, you must expand your sonic palette and write more. Go on Craigslist, get 3 used instruments that you have no idea how to play, bring them home and figure out how to make a song with them. That is how you continue to grow as a musician.
Also someone who picked up instruments late in life.
I have no lessons to give, but my only advice is that plateaus are normal, and the only way to win is to keep going. To borrow Feynman’s words, keep your pen on the paper.
It also helps to diversify. If you have been playing the guitar for a while and are plateauing, switch from electric to acoustic (or vice versa), or even bass. When you go back to guitar, you’ll have a deeper understanding.
IME this applies to any creative discipline.
I have no lessons to give, but my only advice is that plateaus are normal, and the only way to win is to keep going. To borrow Feynman’s words, keep your pen on the paper.
It also helps to diversify. If you have been playing the guitar for a while and are plateauing, switch from electric to acoustic (or vice versa), or even bass. When you go back to guitar, you’ll have a deeper understanding.
IME this applies to any creative discipline.
Do you take lessons? I think that finding a halfway-decent teacher is by far the best way to improve at playing an instrument. Take it from someone who has done a lot self-taught, occasionally taken lessons to great effect, and given lessons to people who progressed much more rapidly than I did, since I could quickly coach them through things it took years to learn on my own.
I really liked this essay and I tried to send it to a friend in Paris via FB Messenger and got a weird message:
> You can't post this because it has a blocked link
> The content you're trying to share includes a link that our security systems detected to be unsafe:
> kzhu.net
> http://kzhu.net/does-life-end-at-35.html
Anyone know what might be happening here?
> You can't post this because it has a blocked link
> The content you're trying to share includes a link that our security systems detected to be unsafe:
> kzhu.net
> http://kzhu.net/does-life-end-at-35.html
Anyone know what might be happening here?
You are reading an archive of the old kzhu.net page on archive.org .
If you try to use sharing links etc from within the archived article, they may have problems as the kzhu.net page is now run by different people for a different purpose.
Maybe try sharing the link manually.
If you try to use sharing links etc from within the archived article, they may have problems as the kzhu.net page is now run by different people for a different purpose.
Maybe try sharing the link manually.
It seems like the domain expired, and now it redirects to a gambling site.
One difference IMHO between many young and old people is the willingness to invest in starting something new. I don't mean money, I mean spending years learning something, spinning your wheels facing an uncertain outcome, with little progress, income or status while you try to get traction, etc.
Many in their early 20s are willing to work crappy jobs, live cheaply, and accept the status of having not much to show while they try for their dream. Think of actors waiting tables, as a simple example. How many 35 year olds would do that?
I know it's not that simple: Older people often have obligations, such as children, which make such things more difficult. Also, many businesses are unaccustomed to and thus unwilling to hire older people to entry-level jobs. The (40-something?) intern played by Robert DeNiro was meant to be absurd, but when I saw the previews I thought: Why shouldn't 40 year olds start a new career the same way that 20 year olds do? I can't think of a good reason. And if not, how do they start a new career?
Many in their early 20s are willing to work crappy jobs, live cheaply, and accept the status of having not much to show while they try for their dream. Think of actors waiting tables, as a simple example. How many 35 year olds would do that?
I know it's not that simple: Older people often have obligations, such as children, which make such things more difficult. Also, many businesses are unaccustomed to and thus unwilling to hire older people to entry-level jobs. The (40-something?) intern played by Robert DeNiro was meant to be absurd, but when I saw the previews I thought: Why shouldn't 40 year olds start a new career the same way that 20 year olds do? I can't think of a good reason. And if not, how do they start a new career?
I think there's some trepidation in hiring someone older in an entry level job. People wonder why, and what might have made them leave what they were doing for something low status and low paying. Also, they wonder if the person will be hard to manage, because let's be frank, what some companies really want in an entry level employee is someone they can push around.
I can't say is haven't wondered these things myself at times, though I have hired people in their 40s and 50s for these types of positions before. We've got several retired folks working in part time positions and they are perfect. Professional, knowledgeable, prompt, hard working, and not looking to jump to full time.
I can't say is haven't wondered these things myself at times, though I have hired people in their 40s and 50s for these types of positions before. We've got several retired folks working in part time positions and they are perfect. Professional, knowledgeable, prompt, hard working, and not looking to jump to full time.
> Professional, knowledgeable, prompt, hard working, and not looking to jump to full time.
Good points. What I meant to talk about was people who are looking to jump to full time; someone that age who wants to start a new career.
Isn't what you describe exactly what many people that age say is a problem: They can't get an opportunity to do anything but part-time, dead-end work.
Good points. What I meant to talk about was people who are looking to jump to full time; someone that age who wants to start a new career.
Isn't what you describe exactly what many people that age say is a problem: They can't get an opportunity to do anything but part-time, dead-end work.
I'm not sure if it's so different where you are from, but that happens here all the time. I regurlarly meet Uber drivers in their 40s who did something completely different in their home country and are getting their real estate license (for instance) by driving Uber in the meanwhile. Many more examples like that but it seems to not be that strange. I myself am not very 'normal' but I try many different things, always. So far they make enough to allow to try out something new the next time. I don't see myself stop until I die, but who knows.
I'm not talking about Uber-like jobs, but entry-level jobs toward new careers. For example, someone getting an entry level job as a developer or actor at age 35, with the plan to progress in those professions.
The real estate part is that; going from cook to real estate in another country and doing that by driving Uber in the meantime while learning and practicing how real estate works and getting licences. It is not as clear cut as programming in that way but entry level jobs are not too easy to get over here when you are older as the minimum wage goes up fast. Freelancer wise I do see it happen.
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Maybe not work life, but social life sure died down around that time (people having kids, etc.).
Honestly I believe that at one point your brain just shifts desires.
And personally, social life was way too often confused and ill aimed (seeking validation, social pressure). It feels like a lot of it is a nature mechanism to promote interactions until you make your nest.
And personally, social life was way too often confused and ill aimed (seeking validation, social pressure). It feels like a lot of it is a nature mechanism to promote interactions until you make your nest.
My social life has gotten much more active after 30. Depends on the situation, but I guess for most people you are right.
I've defined who I truly want to be around in my 30's even if that means it's fewer people. Way more comforting than my 20's.
But the twenties themselves were much more comfortable than high school. And nothing will ever compare to the horrors of middle school. In that sense, of course life is easier because we don't care as much about other people's opinion anymore. As I learn that other people are just as clueless and full of it as I am, I am more confident even though I know I know nothing.
Well, I find this 'it gets better' to be everywhere but phyiscal; i'm begin 40s, my mind is clearer than ever before and I can pretty much do what I want and where I want. This seems to improve decade over decade. You start out bound and restricted and then free up over time.
Almost 42 here, will echo the rest.
My teens were miserable, my 20s sucked, my 30s were so good I thought I went to haven living in a time loop, my 40s started a bit rocky but now I'm pretty good. My athletic shape peaked around the age of 38 but now I'm pretty close.
The funny thing is, in my 20s I was also in a rush to succeed as fast as possible, and in retrospect, it was very silly. I keep hearing folks in their late 20s saying, "my time is running out", and I can't help but smile.
The best thing about the advancing age is how things start making sense and come together.
My teens were miserable, my 20s sucked, my 30s were so good I thought I went to haven living in a time loop, my 40s started a bit rocky but now I'm pretty good. My athletic shape peaked around the age of 38 but now I'm pretty close.
The funny thing is, in my 20s I was also in a rush to succeed as fast as possible, and in retrospect, it was very silly. I keep hearing folks in their late 20s saying, "my time is running out", and I can't help but smile.
The best thing about the advancing age is how things start making sense and come together.
It's a cliche, but the older you get, the more you realize that "age really is just a number". As an older person, your health is infinitely more relevant than your age. While you tend to suffer poorer health when you get older, this really doesn't become an substantive issue until at least your late 50s (later if you keep yourself in good shape and don't get unlucky). Live life and keep on doing what you enjoy doing (as opposed to what you think you are supposed to do or what other people tell you that you should do) for as long as you are able and you will get just as much satisfaction out of life no matter what your age.
Interesting piece, thanks for sharing. I'm constantly plucking at deeper questions around this topic. High-level creative genius seems to fall off for many people in their fourth decade (their 30s), at least for musicians and many mathematicians. This is less the rule for writers, I've found, and I've often wondered about the reasons behind that. I have theories, but I'm more interested in other peoples' thoughts on the entire topic of being able to conjure creative solutions and at what age those capabilities seem to peak, at what ages people have been able to sustain them, and when people have noticed these capabilities ebbing.
"Oh yeah, life goes on... long after the thrill of livin' is gone"
"Hold onto 16 as long as you can..."
Jack and Diane by John Mellencamp
By 35, you've died twice. You may as well stop caring what dopes like Mellencamp say.
"Hold onto 16 as long as you can..."
Jack and Diane by John Mellencamp
By 35, you've died twice. You may as well stop caring what dopes like Mellencamp say.
I can answer this without reading the article. I am 47 and still alive, therefore life does not end at 35.
In 2007, this was not true for 5,309 people in the United States[0]. Considering 3,258,411 people were born in the United States in 1972[1], I think the question can be more accurately answered with:
"For ~0.163% of the United States population, yes, life will end at 35. I am not sure about globally, maybe slightly higher, but globals are bad practice anyway."
[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable310...
[1] https://www.infoplease.com/us/births/live-births-and-birth-r...
"For ~0.163% of the United States population, yes, life will end at 35. I am not sure about globally, maybe slightly higher, but globals are bad practice anyway."
[0] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/dvs/mortfinal2007_worktable310...
[1] https://www.infoplease.com/us/births/live-births-and-birth-r...
Checking in at 36 and dead, so let's remember that the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence".
The title isn't literal. You might like the article.
I have some friends in Germany, and their view - for the middle class - is that life begins in your 50s. At this age your kids have moved off to college or university, your debts are mostly paid off (not that debt is really a thing in Germany) and you can look forward to a few decades of retirement. The important part however is this only works if you are healthy enough to enjoy it, so it’s important at a young age to take care of your body and not overwork.
I like that the grandfather got a lot done in his later years, but I think the more important question to ask is: how do we define success? Is it binary, or are there varying levels of it? What is bad about not achieving success at a certain level?
We like to view life as a sequence of accomplishments, because it helps us understand others' lives. But does it make sense to frame your own life that way?
We like to view life as a sequence of accomplishments, because it helps us understand others' lives. But does it make sense to frame your own life that way?
Short-term success: the survival of the individual (you).
Long-term success: the thriving of our species.
Long-term success: the thriving of our species.
I think this is our instinctual motivators, but individually humans have afforded ourselves buffers to lessen how critical basic survival is to our days, months, years.
So we seek happiness. Not contentment, but happiness. We are sold ideals that represent happiness and feel unhappy when we don't hit them.
It's great when you find someone that is generally happy with health, stability and family. I suspect that's a minority in this space, where there are overnight millionaires, CS savants and business success everywhere you look. Some work their tails off for decades and never hit the mark. Some see fleeting success and then dead ends.
How does one transition from "I want to bust my ass, blow everyone away with my startup and walk away set for life" to "I have weekends off, a great family and a path to a comfortable retirement?" Are some people just wired like this or is it trained behavior?
So we seek happiness. Not contentment, but happiness. We are sold ideals that represent happiness and feel unhappy when we don't hit them.
It's great when you find someone that is generally happy with health, stability and family. I suspect that's a minority in this space, where there are overnight millionaires, CS savants and business success everywhere you look. Some work their tails off for decades and never hit the mark. Some see fleeting success and then dead ends.
How does one transition from "I want to bust my ass, blow everyone away with my startup and walk away set for life" to "I have weekends off, a great family and a path to a comfortable retirement?" Are some people just wired like this or is it trained behavior?
I'm more inclined to see it as trained behavior because this kind of thing varies by culture.
It's probably a combination of the culture and expectations around the individual rather than the individual themselves. Children are pretty often told they can be whoever they want to be by society, and so their bar is set pretty high. But when was the last time a 30 year received the message that they could be anybody they wanted to? People expect different things of older people, and the whole situation, with all of the narratives we use to define ourselves and others, is probably pretty self reinforcing. The attitude also likely shifts as you have a family and they grow up - again I think it's about what people expect. No studies to cite here, but just throwing out some ideas.
It's probably a combination of the culture and expectations around the individual rather than the individual themselves. Children are pretty often told they can be whoever they want to be by society, and so their bar is set pretty high. But when was the last time a 30 year received the message that they could be anybody they wanted to? People expect different things of older people, and the whole situation, with all of the narratives we use to define ourselves and others, is probably pretty self reinforcing. The attitude also likely shifts as you have a family and they grow up - again I think it's about what people expect. No studies to cite here, but just throwing out some ideas.
The question is rhetorical... what I'm hinting at is that it's a fool's errand to chase what other people think makes you successful.
I guess better questions are: why do you care if you're successful? How much success do you need?
I guess better questions are: why do you care if you're successful? How much success do you need?
I've come to agree with you about the question "how do we define success?" It seems fiendishly difficult to answer, but is so central to well-being in the long run, and so many assumptions seem to be made about it without explicit reflection.
Think about it: financial success? Power? Expression? It's easy to assume these sorts of things define success, but I think it's easy to come up with tricky exceptions.
Think about it: financial success? Power? Expression? It's easy to assume these sorts of things define success, but I think it's easy to come up with tricky exceptions.
Nope. Real adulthood starts around 35 though. Possibly a year or two earlier.
I've always thought the worst think about human lifespan is that, in modern times by the time you get educated and mentally/emotionally adjusted and enough time to really get proficient at a craft you only have like a decade or less before slowdown starts. Then you have the other half of your life being "old".
In more primitive times (most of the history of the species) I believe a person was basically a small adult at puberty. There wasn't much more to learn, there wasn't a great deal to "experiment" with, crafts and trades were simple enough to be picked up in a few years. You had kids early and generally died at not much more than 40 and that was that.
Although I'm opposed to immortality (until we get some other things worked out) it would be cool if we could stay in physical/mental prime for the same proportion of lifespan as we did in earlier days. Because adulthood begins so much later.
I've always thought the worst think about human lifespan is that, in modern times by the time you get educated and mentally/emotionally adjusted and enough time to really get proficient at a craft you only have like a decade or less before slowdown starts. Then you have the other half of your life being "old".
In more primitive times (most of the history of the species) I believe a person was basically a small adult at puberty. There wasn't much more to learn, there wasn't a great deal to "experiment" with, crafts and trades were simple enough to be picked up in a few years. You had kids early and generally died at not much more than 40 and that was that.
Although I'm opposed to immortality (until we get some other things worked out) it would be cool if we could stay in physical/mental prime for the same proportion of lifespan as we did in earlier days. Because adulthood begins so much later.
True. Navigating the complexity of today’s human society in every dimension in way where you’re comfortable with yourself, takes a long time. It’s a tragedy we don’t stay in peak working condition for sufficiently long after we get there.
Whether we like it or not, we are all gardeners. When you are young you won’t be able to see much of your garden, because it will take some time to bloom. Once it does take root though, you may find that you measure your success less in the things you do directly in your day to day job, and more in the gradual change that you cultivate around you. When I hear people panic about growing old, I feel that sometimes they aren’t yet able to see the roots that they have placed, and how powerful those are. If anywhere in your mind the thought has taken hold that life is over after 35, then wake up. That’s when the real work begins. Sometimes things will be easy, and sometimes they will be hell. When it’s your turn to face that hellish stretch of road, remember to smile.
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"It takes 20 years to make an overnight success" - Eddie Cantor.
> Do you count down the years until you can no longer make the 30 under 30 list?
Hitting 30 seems to be the benchmark point. The "What have you done with your life so far, its all down hill from here" moment.
Its not just the regular folk, we get essays from far more accomplished folk like sama as well. [1]
[1] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-days-are-long-but-the-decades-...
Hitting 30 seems to be the benchmark point. The "What have you done with your life so far, its all down hill from here" moment.
Its not just the regular folk, we get essays from far more accomplished folk like sama as well. [1]
[1] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-days-are-long-but-the-decades-...
I didn't pick up on any "downhill" sentiment in the sama article you linked to.
I like that these type of questions get asked. In today's age I feel like 35 is the new 25. I read a great article on investors that can translate to a good life. You guys should give it a read:
https://passivetalks.com/the-beginners-guide-to-bitcoin-taxa...
https://passivetalks.com/the-beginners-guide-to-bitcoin-taxa...
Does Life End at 35?
No.
Do you sometimes lie awake worrying that you aren't succeeding fast enough?
No.
Are you tortured by younger peers who have global businesses, penned acclaimed books and a string of iron-man medals?
No.
Do you count down the years until you can no longer make the 30 under 30 list?
No.
No.
Do you sometimes lie awake worrying that you aren't succeeding fast enough?
No.
Are you tortured by younger peers who have global businesses, penned acclaimed books and a string of iron-man medals?
No.
Do you count down the years until you can no longer make the 30 under 30 list?
No.
>Are you tortured by younger peers who have global businesses, penned acclaimed books and a string of iron-man medals?
All few tens of thousands of them, in a 350 million country?
All few tens of thousands of them, in a 350 million country?
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fwiw that translation is wrong. 大器晚成 means "The bigger the cauldron/pot, the longer it will take to cast/make [the cauldron]."
The short answer is yes...
And the longer version is yes, if you want to only live until 35.
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I am in my mid-60s, manage a machine learning team at a fine company, busy writing a new book, and getting close to being an investor in a new company.
My Dad is 96 and does 3D animation, makes movies and documentaries, and is still a member of the national academy of science.
Life ends either when one gives up learning and doing new things, or when our bodies finally wear out :-)