Hetzner Cloud(hetzner.com)
hetzner.com
Hetzner Cloud
https://www.hetzner.com/cloud
353 comments
Hetzner has an excellent reputation for rock-solid engineering and very good prices. While the cloud providers invested in innovation in software, they focused on optimizing the hardware and data center techniques and engineering (something very German, btw).
Now that Cloud is a pure commodity and companies are learning about how to be truly 'multi-cloud' they come out of nowhere with a very interesting proposal at incredible pricing.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they have built the solution on top of opensource technologies like Ceph (100% sure) and OpenStack (not so sure...). OpenStack and Ceph have been around for 7 years, so they don't have to deal with their (sexy) immaturity of the early days. I miss some key features that premium cloud providers have, like a firewall (security groups), private networks (VPC or SDN style networks), and of course Windows. But the funny thing is that it fits perfectly with my multi-cloud approach, and we are going to test it and if it works, we will move our loads from the AWS Frankfurt region to them. And saving about 80%.
Nice move, Hetzner!
And without the OVH cloud interface which has horrible loading times and sometimes randomly switches to French.
OVH is great when it works but inconsistent, Hetzner stuff 'just works' and is roughly in the same price range, unless you need lots of bandwidth, then it can be very hard to find anything that can beat OVH.
When contacting OVH support in French, I generally receive very good support. I sometimes wonder how good the response is when they receive the same question in English.
Its hit or miss, from experience, in English.
I use them heavily for their cheap object storage + backups.
But even for cheap, dumb storage situations they sometimes give "interesting" responses to support questions.
To be fair, I contact them maybe 3 to 4 times a year (always related to hardware / network down issues). So, my experience may not be representative.
I use them heavily for their cheap object storage + backups.
But even for cheap, dumb storage situations they sometimes give "interesting" responses to support questions.
To be fair, I contact them maybe 3 to 4 times a year (always related to hardware / network down issues). So, my experience may not be representative.
Thanks for the feedback about possible confusion caused by language issues. As the company's in-house English teacher, I am always curious to hear how we're doing in that regard. If you happen to have any old support ticket numbers where English was an issue, I'd appreciate looking at them so that I can integrate them into one of my classes. --Katie, Marketing (and English teacher), Hetzner Online
Sorry for the confusion, we were discussing OVH support. I've never had that problem with Hetzner support.
> When contacting OVH support in French, I generally receive very good support. I sometimes wonder how good the response is when they receive the same question in English.
> When contacting OVH support in French, I generally receive very good support. I sometimes wonder how good the response is when they receive the same question in English.
Well, you can always learn a new language
Been using Hetzner for years, their hardware's has been rock solid, predictable pricing with sweet price/performance ratio resulting in large savings from consolidating existing AWS EC2 instances.
Still using AWS for Apps which rely on cloud features, e.g. SES/RDS/etc but for static servers Hetzner is now our goto.
Super exciting to see them entering the cloud space and offering easy snapshots + backups, should open it to hosting more stuff on there.
The one difference is noticeable latency from their DC in Germany vs the instant response times I was getting from AWS's N.Virgina DC. Would obviously love it if Hetzner could open a DC in the US.
Still using AWS for Apps which rely on cloud features, e.g. SES/RDS/etc but for static servers Hetzner is now our goto.
Super exciting to see them entering the cloud space and offering easy snapshots + backups, should open it to hosting more stuff on there.
The one difference is noticeable latency from their DC in Germany vs the instant response times I was getting from AWS's N.Virgina DC. Would obviously love it if Hetzner could open a DC in the US.
If they open a DC in the US, then - by the US laws - their US company will have to provide the data even from German DCs when requested by the US government. So it is maybe better not to enter the US...
Perhaps Canada could be a location that's beyond US jurisdiction but mostly solves the SoL problem.
Actually, Microsofts challenge is still pending at the Supreme Court, no?
They could form a separate company to handle US operations only.
OVH tries to do that but I doubt that's waterproof. Probably easier to have an agreement with a US provider.
Having everything in the EU makes it much easier for them and is a selling point for many customers.
Having everything in the EU makes it much easier for them and is a selling point for many customers.
A US company can't force a German company to hand out data, I don't see what you mean by "waterproof".
The US government might not agree that they are two separate entities (they're not), and could take action based on that position (e.g. shut down the US company, ask the German government to compel the German company to comply with their laws etc.)
Microsoft has contracted their German Azure region to Deutsche Telekom (which is clearly a separate company) and claims to not be able to access the data. An arrangement similar to this (where basically the brand and technology is used by an actually independent company) could be possible.
Unless the US government slightly extends the law to include also the brands...
Somewhere on their forum (not sure if this has been made public somewhere) they said they're looking to open a datacenter in Finland...
Not sure if that helps with your latency problem or not, but options.... :)
Not sure if that helps with your latency problem or not, but options.... :)
http://www.goodnewsfinland.com/hetzner-sets-foot-finland/
They should start operations this year
They should start operations this year
Good point. Maybe if they opened a DC in Greenland or Iceland.
Iceland would theoretically be great, ideal location for US and Europe. But they'd need to lay a cable first, traffic Iceland-US is currently routed through Denmark/UK.
Iceland also has cheap renewable energy.
There is the Greenland connect cable¹ built in 2009 that goes from Iceland to Canada. Sounds like it currently has 60GBit/s.
-- ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_Connect
-- ¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_Connect
At least when I was in Iceland traffic to the US was never routed through that cable (from traceroutes).
Quebec appears to be the better choice for cheap renewable energy.
Quebec appears to be the better choice for cheap renewable energy.
That is an Interesting questions, so Canada is currently the best for US citizen if you dont want a DC inside US?
I don’t mind the latency. I rent a a large GPU server from them for my own machine learning experiments. Their prices are so reasonably inexpensive that this is affordable. I think it would be more expensive for them to provide the same service in the USA - I base this in pricing. OVH is the only local provider I have used that is somewhat price competitive.
A fair warning to you: IMMEDIATELY TURN OFF UPDATES FOR THE NVIDIA DRIVER
Since a few weeks ago, Nvidia changes their driver ToS, and any new versions of the driver are not permitted to be used in datacenters (except for crypto mining).
See more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15983587
Since a few weeks ago, Nvidia changes their driver ToS, and any new versions of the driver are not permitted to be used in datacenters (except for crypto mining).
See more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15983587
Nvidia is going to have a difficult time enforcing that in the EU (where Hetzner operates).
That is a good point, but if a US citizen rents a server from Hetzner, they might still be affected. Better safe than sorry.
How do you see Nvidia enforcing it on individuals?
Not necessarily now, but if you decide to turn that little ML project into a startup, staying on the same infrastructure at first, Nvidia might just come after you.
Considering this is HN, it's a pretty safe assumption that people are running these side projects to turn them into startups.
Considering this is HN, it's a pretty safe assumption that people are running these side projects to turn them into startups.
How would they know your startup is doing ML violating their EULAs? I really don't see how this can be a concern for anyone, but very few companies.
[deleted]
Thanks for the heads up. I don;t plan on updating the drivers - everything works fine and hopefully nvidia drivers don’t need security updates.
Which plan do you use?
the [EX51-SSD-GPU](https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver/ex51-ssd-gpu) is the only GPU plan they offer
Thanks! I thougt they didn't have GPU servers.
in my previous gig we used hetzner server to have several VMs and storage of that server failed , resulting that all our production servers went down. luckily we had backups, and restored partially our production, but after that incident we moved everything to DigitalOcean, just to not risk anymore. so our experience was bitter with Hetzner.
Why not go with Hetzner VPSes if you didn't want to deal with dedicated HW anymore? Or are you blaming Hetzner for a hardware failure?
I was just saying that our experience with Hetzner was not as rock solid as others were saying, that's it. Don't understand why some people are downvoting my comment. Also it happened ~6 years ago, so I'm not sure if they offered VPS at all.
I guess the downvotes are because it sounds like you frame a characteristic of the product type as something the vendor did wrong.
Hardware fails, and part of having a dedicated server is that you are directly on top of said hardware and have to be prepared for it to fail.
Hardware fails, and part of having a dedicated server is that you are directly on top of said hardware and have to be prepared for it to fail.
Yeah, but I didn't write "Hetzner sucks because their disks are failing constantly".
One commenter wrote "Hetzner has an excellent reputation for rock-solid engineering" and as a counterpoint I wanted to tell my anecdote which opposes that "rock-solidness". So for that I get downvotes :)
In retrospect yes, I agree that we had to be prepared for such event, to have failovers and so on.
One commenter wrote "Hetzner has an excellent reputation for rock-solid engineering" and as a counterpoint I wanted to tell my anecdote which opposes that "rock-solidness". So for that I get downvotes :)
In retrospect yes, I agree that we had to be prepared for such event, to have failovers and so on.
I recently tried Google Compute Cloud and concluded it's got almost as awful and crufty an interface as AWS. Almost. What is it with cloud providers, they can't hire a designer? Or they don't take them seriously? This stuff is terrible.
So I'm still sold vs. AWS, and I have to run some nodes, and I think great, I can put the business credit card on a cloud account and run stuff. But then Google refuses to let me sign up because every time I try it says "Unable to verify with this phone number.". This could be because I can only access Google via proxies and they are not in the country of my phone number (China or HK). So perversely I am left in a situation where to get Google to allow me to give them money I have to first open a proxy compute node with another Google account in the jurisdiction my phone number is in, install a proxy, then access them through that. But you'd think they probably block their own IPs, so that probably won't work.
So Hetzner, maybe you got my business.
So I'm still sold vs. AWS, and I have to run some nodes, and I think great, I can put the business credit card on a cloud account and run stuff. But then Google refuses to let me sign up because every time I try it says "Unable to verify with this phone number.". This could be because I can only access Google via proxies and they are not in the country of my phone number (China or HK). So perversely I am left in a situation where to get Google to allow me to give them money I have to first open a proxy compute node with another Google account in the jurisdiction my phone number is in, install a proxy, then access them through that. But you'd think they probably block their own IPs, so that probably won't work.
So Hetzner, maybe you got my business.
If all you’re using is EC2 or GCE (ie: plain VMs) you’re just wasting money anyway. You’d be better served by going with one of the cheaper alternatives that only do VMs, so Hetzner or Digital Ocean or Linode or whatever doesn’t really matter...
Not if you need specialized vms like a p2.
Hence “plain VMs”. EC2 does offer other things under the umbrella, but if OP has tried GCE and is considering Hetzner he’s clearly not using those, so he’s wasting money every month.
or a network.
I have used GCE, AWS, Hetzner, and OVH. On the face of it, while the GCE interface seemed very strange (e.g. can't rename most resources after creation), I have come to the conclusion that it is the best of the cloud providers. The flexibility of being able to upscale/downscale a machine, setting it up and then shutting it down until needed for free, the sustained use discount, and the fast startup keep me coming back. That said, I run a lot on Hetzner and love the fact that it just works. Edit: syntax, addditions for Hetnzer.
Since Hetzner appears to be reading here: I have a question that support couldn't answer last time. How are your DCs connected with each other and with external peering points? I notice that some traceroutes to FSN servers go via NBG. If one data centre region goes down (as OVH just experienced), will all peering still work on the other or would that kill some peering points?
Having some kind of network topology (like OVH's weathermap) would help with that, esp where to position servers that rely on certain peering points.
Having some kind of network topology (like OVH's weathermap) would help with that, esp where to position servers that rely on certain peering points.
https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Rechenzentren_und_Anbindun...
"How are the Data Centers connected to each other?
The two Data Center Parks are both connected to Frankfurt (FFM) and each other with dark fiber. Thus, a redundant loop is formed, which ensures the availability of a Data Center should one of the connections fail. The n10 Gbit/s connections provide ample bandwidth between the Data Centers.
The bandwidth of the connections between Nuremberg-Frankfurt, Nuremberg-Falkenstein and Falkenstein-Frankfurt are at least 120 Gbit/s. Through the Frankfurt location data is transported to the peering partners at DE-CIX and also to the uplinks Noris, GLBX, Aixit, AMS-IX, Init7 and Level3. At the Nuremberg location there are connections to Noris, KPN, Init7, Level3 and N-IX.
In each Data Center several Juniper EX Core switches, each with 64x 10 Gbit/s ports, are operated and bundle the streams of the Data Center to the n10 Gbit/s backbone and then over the various uplinks. "
And here is a list of their peerings: https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/rechenzentrum/
"How are the Data Centers connected to each other?
The two Data Center Parks are both connected to Frankfurt (FFM) and each other with dark fiber. Thus, a redundant loop is formed, which ensures the availability of a Data Center should one of the connections fail. The n10 Gbit/s connections provide ample bandwidth between the Data Centers.
The bandwidth of the connections between Nuremberg-Frankfurt, Nuremberg-Falkenstein and Falkenstein-Frankfurt are at least 120 Gbit/s. Through the Frankfurt location data is transported to the peering partners at DE-CIX and also to the uplinks Noris, GLBX, Aixit, AMS-IX, Init7 and Level3. At the Nuremberg location there are connections to Noris, KPN, Init7, Level3 and N-IX.
In each Data Center several Juniper EX Core switches, each with 64x 10 Gbit/s ports, are operated and bundle the streams of the Data Center to the n10 Gbit/s backbone and then over the various uplinks. "
And here is a list of their peerings: https://www.hetzner.com/unternehmen/rechenzentrum/
Ok thanks. So it appears that most peering is done in Frankfurt and available directly. Didn't see that wiki entry before.
Let's just hope that they get more peering partners over the medium term. Peering with Telekom would be very helpful, pings from within Germany can be close to what you get from the US East Coast (from my not representative tests).
Let's just hope that they get more peering partners over the medium term. Peering with Telekom would be very helpful, pings from within Germany can be close to what you get from the US East Coast (from my not representative tests).
See this on why they won't peer with Deutsche Telekom: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10645577
Peering gets so incredibly stupid with consumer ISP's that it's infuriating. It reminds me of the whole Comcast-Cogent fiasco, it's incredibly unfair to try and charge other providers when the customers that are PAYING YOU are requesting the traffic.
I think any real effort at enshrining net neutrality as law instead of a gentleman's agreement needs to include provisions that prevent residential / small business ISP's from throwing their weight around with peering agreements at the detriment of their customers.
I think any real effort at enshrining net neutrality as law instead of a gentleman's agreement needs to include provisions that prevent residential / small business ISP's from throwing their weight around with peering agreements at the detriment of their customers.
I know that Telekom has a horrible attitude towards peering. But they're the only provider of high speed internet in many regions of Germany. Other cloud providers (e.g. OVH) also pay so I doubt Telekom will change soon.
They offer Deutsche Telekom traffic. You just need to enable it https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Double_Paid_Traffic/en
[deleted]
Interesting speeds:
-------------------------------------------------
nench.sh v2017.06.01 -- https://git.io/nench.sh
benchmark timestamp: 2018-01-23 20:03:56 UTC
-------------------------------------------------
Processor: Intel Xeon Processor (Skylake, IBRS)
CPU cores: 1
Frequency: 2099.998 MHz
RAM: 1.9G
Swap: -
Kernel: Linux 4.4.0-112-generic x86_64
Disks:
sda 19.1G HDD
CPU: SHA256-hashing 500 MB
3.249 seconds
CPU: bzip2-compressing 500 MB
5.604 seconds
CPU: AES-encrypting 500 MB
2.970 seconds
ioping: seek rate
min/avg/max/mdev = 32.9 us / 63.2 us / 4.71 ms / 22.5 us
ioping: sequential read speed
generated 22.2 k requests in 5.00 s, 5.42 GiB, 4.44 k iops, 1.08 GiB/s
dd: sequential write speed
1st run: 391.96 MiB/s
2nd run: 311.85 MiB/s
3rd run: 315.67 MiB/s
average: 339.83 MiB/s
IPv4 speedtests
your IPv4: 94.130.181.xxxx
Cachefly CDN: 81.40 MiB/s
Leaseweb (NL): 134.69 MiB/s
Softlayer DAL (US): 6.10 MiB/s
Online.net (FR): 88.06 MiB/s
OVH BHS (CA): 7.12 MiB/s
IPv6 speedtests
your IPv6: 2a01:4f8:1c0c:xxxx
Leaseweb (NL): 92.31 MiB/s
Softlayer DAL (US): 4.22 MiB/s
Online.net (FR): 79.54 MiB/s
OVH BHS (CA): 6.79 MiB/s
-------------------------------------------------My Digitalocean comparison:
-------------------------------------------------
nench.sh v2017.06.01 -- https://git.io/nench.sh
benchmark timestamp: 2018-01-24 04:11:01 UTC
-------------------------------------------------
Processor: Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E5-2650L v3 @ 1.80GHz
CPU cores: 1
Frequency: 1799.998 MHz
RAM: 992M
Swap: -
Kernel: Linux 4.4.0-112-generic x86_64
Disks:
vda 25G HDD
CPU: SHA256-hashing 500 MB
4.450 seconds
CPU: bzip2-compressing 500 MB
7.930 seconds
CPU: AES-encrypting 500 MB
2.435 seconds
ioping: seek rate
min/avg/max/mdev = 37.2 us / 62.3 us / 15.8 ms / 67.2 us
ioping: sequential read speed
generated 26.4 k requests in 5.00 s, 6.44 GiB, 5.28 k iops, 1.29 GiB/s
dd: sequential write speed
1st run: 619.89 MiB/s
2nd run: 775.34 MiB/s
3rd run: 774.38 MiB/s
average: 723.20 MiB/s
IPv4 speedtests
your IPv4: 165.227.96.xxxx
Cachefly CDN: 183.84 MiB/s
Leaseweb (NL): 11.74 MiB/s
Softlayer DAL (US): 6.29 MiB/s
Online.net (FR): 11.81 MiB/s
OVH BHS (CA): 34.46 MiB/s
IPv6 speedtests
your IPv6: 2604:a880:800:xxxx
Leaseweb (NL): 12.01 MiB/s
Softlayer DAL (US): 4.41 MiB/s
Online.net (FR): 23.50 MiB/s
OVH BHS (CA): 36.51 MiB/s
-------------------------------------------------I hope they grab enough market share to force other providers to lower their prices, Hetzner is like 10x cheaper and on better network and hardware then their competitors.
Aruba Cloud VPS starts from 1€/month for 1 core, 1GB RAM, 20GB SSD and 2TB transfer.
scaleway seems even lower and is pretty popular.
Scaleway's "customer support" forums will give you a good grasp of what you're in for if you buy their service.
I'll quote a different customer's opinion (on those forums) that summarizes my experience using their service: "Whenever I've tried to use Scaleway for something serious, I regretted bitterly".
My experience was essentially this: Scaleway advertises that you can have virtual servers with up to 10 150GB SSD volumes, so I signed up and created a virtual server with two 150GB volumes. After several attempts over three days, the server wouldn't start at all; it never actually started.
Scaleway's support told me that "it's because there are no available nodes matching your configuration." and "If our stock is low then there is more chance that the only free nodes are "default" ones, with 200GB available only". The solution, according to their support, would be to "keep trying to start the server until it works".
To add to this, Scaleway started billing me for the (unused) volumes attached to a server that cannot be started because, according to their support, they didn't have the resources to provide it.
So, I certainly didn't feel assured that they are able to provide what is advertised on their website (virtual servers with up to 10 ssd volumes). My key takeaway from this experience was that if you have a platform on Scaleway and you need to add servers to cope with growth/features, they may not have the capacity/stock to provide it. Even if you have only 1 server, which was my case, they may be unable to say when you'll be able to start the server on a physical instance.
I'll quote a different customer's opinion (on those forums) that summarizes my experience using their service: "Whenever I've tried to use Scaleway for something serious, I regretted bitterly".
My experience was essentially this: Scaleway advertises that you can have virtual servers with up to 10 150GB SSD volumes, so I signed up and created a virtual server with two 150GB volumes. After several attempts over three days, the server wouldn't start at all; it never actually started.
Scaleway's support told me that "it's because there are no available nodes matching your configuration." and "If our stock is low then there is more chance that the only free nodes are "default" ones, with 200GB available only". The solution, according to their support, would be to "keep trying to start the server until it works".
To add to this, Scaleway started billing me for the (unused) volumes attached to a server that cannot be started because, according to their support, they didn't have the resources to provide it.
So, I certainly didn't feel assured that they are able to provide what is advertised on their website (virtual servers with up to 10 ssd volumes). My key takeaway from this experience was that if you have a platform on Scaleway and you need to add servers to cope with growth/features, they may not have the capacity/stock to provide it. Even if you have only 1 server, which was my case, they may be unable to say when you'll be able to start the server on a physical instance.
I'm Scaleway customer and it's for sure cheaper since it offers dual cores, unmetered bandwidth and more SSD storage for the same 3 EUR/m. But these are ARM or Atom x86 CPUs, both are significantly less efficient[1] than Xeons. It's worth noting that Scaleway has introduced "Workload Intensive" instances with a sweet price point starting from 25 EUR/m for 6-cores Xeon D-1531/15GB RAM/200GB SSD.
[1] https://github.com/joedicastro/vps-comparison
[1] https://github.com/joedicastro/vps-comparison
Not if you factor in that much of the storage is not local, generally lower speed and processing power often appears relatively low per core. Never tested them myself though.
I was just speaking with their customer support about this and it appears (if I understood correctly) that this offering will be replacing the current CX line, which has a lot of SSD space at a competitive price (unlike the new offering). Since I really need the SSD offered by the current/previous CX line (it was the #1 reason that made me move to Heztner) it seems that I'll have to find a new cloud provider...
My experience with Hetzner is/was great, but as a customer it's impossible to rely on a service provider that extinguishes a whole service line in a few months and forces me to move a whole infrastructure at a whim...
My experience with Hetzner is/was great, but as a customer it's impossible to rely on a service provider that extinguishes a whole service line in a few months and forces me to move a whole infrastructure at a whim...
You can still order the previous CX line of servers (the "vServers") via the customer administration interface. There is no official EOL posted yet for the previous CX line. --Katie, Marketing
Thank you, that wasn't clear from my previous interactions.
It would be great to have an EOL warning at least a few months before a service line is discontinued, just to provide enough time for customers to move critical/production workloads to another infrastructure provider.
It would be great to have an EOL warning at least a few months before a service line is discontinued, just to provide enough time for customers to move critical/production workloads to another infrastructure provider.
We won't cancel the existing servers/customers. You just won't be able to order the product anymore. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
Is there a migration path for customers like us that currently own a CX10 vServer to, let's say, a new CX11 Cloudnode that is half the price?
Could you please write a support request about this question via Robot? Unfortunately, our technicians do not check social media. (It's too insecure for technical support and we must comply with German/EU data protection laws.) They'll be able to give you a quicker and more detailed answer. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
For those of you looking for competitive prices with servers in the U.S., take a look at SSD Nodes—a bootstrapped hosting provider I've been working on since 2011. I'm the founder and CEO, so I'm a little biased, but we're offering 16GB of RAM plus KVM for a price that's more than competitive with Hetzner, and have clients posting excellent benchmarks, like 1.1 GB/s throughput and 480K IOPS[0].
Check out our pricing:
https://www.ssdnodes.com/pricing/
Happy to answer questions if there's any.
[0]: https://serverscope.io/trials/lrAw
Check out our pricing:
https://www.ssdnodes.com/pricing/
Happy to answer questions if there's any.
[0]: https://serverscope.io/trials/lrAw
To be honest monthly pricing and full year commitments to get special deals no longer do it for me.
I'm sure you'll find some customers at those prices, but it does not compare with what Hetzner is offering here just because of that.
I'm sure you'll find some customers at those prices, but it does not compare with what Hetzner is offering here just because of that.
two things kill it for me - annual commitment - I'm just playing around and I have so many options to choose from without the commitment.
Mind you, we're spending $10k+ on AWS right now, but it all started with a free tier.
Another thing is we're based in Europe and you only have servers in the US.
Good luck in the ultra competitive market.
Totally understand, and thank you for taking the time to provide feedback.
In most cases our annual price is equivalent to 1-3 months of a competitor's monthly price. You mentioned AWS so I'm going to use them as an example, even though it's not an apples to apples comparison. Their m5.xlarge is similar to our X-Large plan (16GB RAM + 4vCPUs). I'll ignore that it doesn't include storage or bandwidth, for simplicity. The m5.xlarge (with no storage or bandwidth) costs $140/month on-demand, which exceeds the annual price of the X-Large plan. If you reserve an m5.xlarge for 1 year (paid upfront) with AWS, the cost is a little less than $1K, which is close to 10X the cost of our X-Large.
If customers cancel their server with us after the 14-day refund period, we provide a prorated credit for the remainder of their billing cycle[0]. So if someone cancels after 2 months, they get the remaining 10 months as credit. They can use that towards renewals, new services, etc. I totally respect it's not for everyone, but the cost savings can be substantial for those who are able to use our services.
We are also expanding to Europe in the near future.
[0] https://www.ssdnodes.com/features/
In most cases our annual price is equivalent to 1-3 months of a competitor's monthly price. You mentioned AWS so I'm going to use them as an example, even though it's not an apples to apples comparison. Their m5.xlarge is similar to our X-Large plan (16GB RAM + 4vCPUs). I'll ignore that it doesn't include storage or bandwidth, for simplicity. The m5.xlarge (with no storage or bandwidth) costs $140/month on-demand, which exceeds the annual price of the X-Large plan. If you reserve an m5.xlarge for 1 year (paid upfront) with AWS, the cost is a little less than $1K, which is close to 10X the cost of our X-Large.
If customers cancel their server with us after the 14-day refund period, we provide a prorated credit for the remainder of their billing cycle[0]. So if someone cancels after 2 months, they get the remaining 10 months as credit. They can use that towards renewals, new services, etc. I totally respect it's not for everyone, but the cost savings can be substantial for those who are able to use our services.
We are also expanding to Europe in the near future.
[0] https://www.ssdnodes.com/features/
Why is your network so slow compared with the rest (from your own performance comparison)?
https://blog.ssdnodes.com/blog/comparison-vultr-vs-digital-o...
https://blog.ssdnodes.com/blog/comparison-vultr-vs-digital-o...
If I get the 16GB RAM plan can I scale up at a later stage and what processes on my part does that involve?
It's super easy. Just log into the dashboard and select your server, then "Upgrade" to see the options. From there, choose the package you want and your KVM server will be automatically scaled up (with zero downtime).
Gonna give a Hacker News discount? :)
I’d join in a heartbeat if you supported Windows. Why do almost no VPS providers support Windows?
We're definitely planning on offering Windows in the future. There are some licensing headaches, and it also means having people on staff that are experts in both Linux AND Windows (for customer queries, etc). So it's a bit more involved than just having a Windows install, but we're working on it.
Quite impressed so far, the interface clean and straight forward. We've been using Hetzner for years, mostly because the PX121 machines offer excellent performance for cheap. We'll be doing some in depth testing of this new cloud offering in the coming days/weeks.
Provisioning is already impressively fast, especially if you're coming from EC2 where it feels like an intern has to press a button or something to get an instance online.
Provisioning is already impressively fast, especially if you're coming from EC2 where it feels like an intern has to press a button or something to get an instance online.
Maybe we just have more interns than amazon ;)
full disclosure: am working for hetzner cloud
full disclosure: am working for hetzner cloud
This made me laugh
That's really cheap. With really good features.
However, what keeps me on Linode is that they have a London datacentre with excellent peering. I've seen 9ms pings, 150 miles away. Makes for seriously fast websites (in concert with good development processes).
Hetzner responds in 31-35ms from here. That might be Good Enough™ for many applications but it's not as special.
I've never been this tempted to jump ship though. Hopefully some of these features will become industry standard.
However, what keeps me on Linode is that they have a London datacentre with excellent peering. I've seen 9ms pings, 150 miles away. Makes for seriously fast websites (in concert with good development processes).
Hetzner responds in 31-35ms from here. That might be Good Enough™ for many applications but it's not as special.
I've never been this tempted to jump ship though. Hopefully some of these features will become industry standard.
Honestly, no user will notice that. You need at least 10 roundtrips for 20ms difference to be noticeable.
Very different obviously if you have APIs that require low latency.
Very different obviously if you have APIs that require low latency.
I am also on Linode as its price point is its strength. Really considering if Hetzner would charge forex on US cards, otherwise, seems like a good plan.
Does anybody know if Hetzner charges forex on US debit/credit cards ?
That’s actually up to your credit card company, not the merchant.
They charge in € so you need a card without FX fee.
Discover and Capital One are probably the best cards to use for foreign purchases if you live in the US (I only use my Discover IT or Capital One QuickSilver for purchases in foreign currency or that charge from a foreign bank), some banks offer no-FX fee cards but typically they're tied to specific rewards programs (often travel) that might not be as useful.
I pay Hetzner via PayPal, and I haven't had any fees attached. Online.net however charges a card directly so my bank does charge it as a foreign transaction and adds a percentage.
Paypal will happily do the FX for you "fee-free".
That's because they fleece you with the exchange rate. You're paying a many-points worse exchange rate, even against a stabilised market average.
For one recent actual example, Paypal recently gave me 1.339 USD for 1 GBP in a transaction. The raw market rate that day was 1.421. The week mean was ~1.410. Paypal already holds this cash, they're not exchanging jack on the open market.
A pre-pay FX card —shop around— would have given me $1.40/£ on that date.
Paypal work like a bookmakers. They cover the entire spread with very little risk. Nothing on Paypal is really free.
That's because they fleece you with the exchange rate. You're paying a many-points worse exchange rate, even against a stabilised market average.
For one recent actual example, Paypal recently gave me 1.339 USD for 1 GBP in a transaction. The raw market rate that day was 1.421. The week mean was ~1.410. Paypal already holds this cash, they're not exchanging jack on the open market.
A pre-pay FX card —shop around— would have given me $1.40/£ on that date.
Paypal work like a bookmakers. They cover the entire spread with very little risk. Nothing on Paypal is really free.
I'm in the UK and host things both in a colo facility about 2 miles from me in London, and at Hetzner, and the roundtrip difference is not noticeable for normal workloads unless you're doing something extremely latency sensitive.
I am using their previous "VServer" offering and while it is not easily visible on their landing page it is possible to reboot their VPS into either a Linux based or a FreeBSD rescue image and install your favourite Linux distro or FreeBSD from there.
This way you can run for example a FreeBSD or Arch Linux VPS for under 3 Euro per month. :)
This way you can run for example a FreeBSD or Arch Linux VPS for under 3 Euro per month. :)
I am running FreeBSD on their VServer (and dedicated) too.
Anyone know if the rescue system is available on the cloud offering as well? (So alternate OS can be installed)
And do the "cloud" have the same painful setup with the gateway outside the subnet?
Anyone know if the rescue system is available on the cloud offering as well? (So alternate OS can be installed)
And do the "cloud" have the same painful setup with the gateway outside the subnet?
Yes, I created a cloud server and see the rescue system is available. Once you created a server you can also mount ISO images. I see "FreeBSD 11.1" among others listed there.
From the FAQ [1]:
> Can I install Windows?
> Right now we are focusing on support for Linux as an operating system. If you wish, you may install Windows on your own, and we have seen successful installations done. However, we will not provide any support for Windows.
Currently I'm running a CX20 (primarily as mail server and for smaller private projects), thinking of switching to the CX21 (more RAM, less storage, cheaper) or the CX31 (way more RAM, more storage, price per month is around 2€ higher than the CX20). If someone has benchmarked them against the old offerings, I'd be happy to see the result. :)
[1] https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb
Currently I'm running a CX20 (primarily as mail server and for smaller private projects), thinking of switching to the CX21 (more RAM, less storage, cheaper) or the CX31 (way more RAM, more storage, price per month is around 2€ higher than the CX20). If someone has benchmarked them against the old offerings, I'd be happy to see the result. :)
[1] https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=gb
Can confirm. I'm running Arch Linux on my Hetzner VPS and it's been rock-solid (except that one time when I accidentally deleted /sbin/init, but that was my own stupidity).
Compared to Scaleway, Scaleway gives you two vCPUs (not one) and 50GB storage (not 20GB) for their entry level cloud server, at around 3€/month.
URL: https://www.scaleway.com/pricing/
The problem with Scaleway is that they are working at capacity and are almost always out of stock.
They are expanding now (and are hiring!), https://blog.online.net/2017/11/13/scaleway-enters-a-new-gro...
The big difference between Hetzner and all the rest of the cloud servers, is that they start with 2GB RAM for their entry level packages.
URL: https://www.scaleway.com/pricing/
The problem with Scaleway is that they are working at capacity and are almost always out of stock.
They are expanding now (and are hiring!), https://blog.online.net/2017/11/13/scaleway-enters-a-new-gro...
The big difference between Hetzner and all the rest of the cloud servers, is that they start with 2GB RAM for their entry level packages.
>> two vCPUs (not one)
Two Intel Avoton cores, quite inferior to the Xeons that power Hetzner's vCPU. (assuming they are in stock)
I wrote this in detail on another reply, but Scaleway's "customer support" forums will give you a good grasp of what you're in for if you buy their service.
Two Intel Avoton cores, quite inferior to the Xeons that power Hetzner's vCPU. (assuming they are in stock)
I wrote this in detail on another reply, but Scaleway's "customer support" forums will give you a good grasp of what you're in for if you buy their service.
> two vCPUs (not one)
A vCPU means nothing without considering the underlying CPU being used, and whether or not it's a dedicated core or not.
A vCPU means nothing without considering the underlying CPU being used, and whether or not it's a dedicated core or not.
Scaleway is using Intel Atom cores.
Atom cores and IIRC all network disks, with some peculiarities. For example, reboot means waiting while your instance's 'local' drive is copied to some other type of storage, then your instance reboots, then all the data is copied back, THEN you can access your instance again. When I tested them last year reboots meant 30+ minutes of down time.
Their setup is interesting and I really wanted to like it (I did like the pricing), but it was a dreadfully slow experience. And those Atoms really suffered when benchmarking HTTPS connections compared to almost any other provider. Not even close.
Their setup is interesting and I really wanted to like it (I did like the pricing), but it was a dreadfully slow experience. And those Atoms really suffered when benchmarking HTTPS connections compared to almost any other provider. Not even close.
Congratulations! Nice step.
Are you also working on docker hosting and dbaas?
I'm a german development contractor and long-term Hetzner customer. These are the only two missing features, causing us to still operate our own systems.
Regarding the DSGVO: Do you support encryption of the filesystem?
Are you also working on docker hosting and dbaas?
I'm a german development contractor and long-term Hetzner customer. These are the only two missing features, causing us to still operate our own systems.
Regarding the DSGVO: Do you support encryption of the filesystem?
Thanks for the suggestion about Docker/dbaas. I have passed it on to our development team. We don't usually publish what new products and features we are developing until they are ready, but we will continue to post information about upgrades as they develop.
Regarding the DSGVO: Do you support encryption of the filesystem? -> Hetzner Cloud servers are fully virtualized. So the customer can even fully encrypt the whole server. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
Regarding the DSGVO: Do you support encryption of the filesystem? -> Hetzner Cloud servers are fully virtualized. So the customer can even fully encrypt the whole server. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
"All servers that have finished their creation process will be
billed until they are deleted, regardless of their state.
This is because, internally, we allocate full resources to servers
regardless of their power state. And it enables rapid startup and boot
times for you, the customer."
(https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=ot in FAQ)
I don't think they have understood, what Cloud Computing means.
I don't think they have understood, what Cloud Computing means.
Wonder if using Hetzner makes you subject to unusual German laws requiring (nearly) every site to have an "Impressum" page with contact phone number, mailing address and other data that would be uncomfortable for an individual (not a company) to disclose.
Your server provider or server location has nothing to do with the "Impressumspflicht". For example, if you're an US citizen with an English website on a US server, but you offer any products or services for German citizens, you need an "Impressum" [0][1].
> Companies and online media outlets, such as newspapers, magazines and journals, wishing to operate within any of these countries are obliged to make this information easily available to users. This requirement also applies to legal entities registered outside of the German-speaking realm that compete on the respective German, Austrian, or Swiss markets.
[0] - http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspf...
[1] - https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-ca...
> Companies and online media outlets, such as newspapers, magazines and journals, wishing to operate within any of these countries are obliged to make this information easily available to users. This requirement also applies to legal entities registered outside of the German-speaking realm that compete on the respective German, Austrian, or Swiss markets.
[0] - http://www.it-recht-kanzlei.de/nicht-eu-ausland-impressumspf...
[1] - https://www.1and1.com/digitalguide/websites/digital-law/a-ca...
You misread your source. Service providers outside the EU are not required to provide an imprint, even if their website is targeting German customers.
I'm quite sure I read it correctly. "Fazit" point 1: You do not need an imprint if you're outside the EU and you're not targetting EU citizens. Point 2: It's the opposite, if you're outside the EU but you're targetting EU citizens.
EDIT: added a source in English
EDIT: added a source in English
Looks like we're both kind of right. Your original source is solely based on LG
Siegen 09.07.2013 - 2 O 36/13, which said service providers from non-member
countries don't require an imprint and the court's decision doesn't really align with what you said. However, the ruling was overthrown by OLG Hamm 17.12.2013 - I-4 U 100/13, which actually follows your interpretation of the law.
Odd thing to note here. I've never heard of a case in Germany where the hoster would enforce this law on behalf of the state.
There are plenty of lawyers who love to make money out of unlawful use of the German "Impressum" and send you an "Abmahnung" which requires you to pay fees even if you comply and change your website afterwards.
True, but that is solely your own responsibility. And lawyers can't do it just because they stumble over your website. Usually it's a competitor who comes after you. And even then its a civil law case - there is no threat to the hoster.
couldn't you in reality just use the data from WHOIS protection on a domain?
People need to actually be able to contact you with that, by letter, fax, phone, email, etc.
All WHOIS protection services I’ve seen until now either ignore fax, phone and letter, or just respond with "this method of contact is ignored, please use the email"
All WHOIS protection services I’ve seen until now either ignore fax, phone and letter, or just respond with "this method of contact is ignored, please use the email"
But you can put your real data as an administrator contact on the whois entry. It doesn't always show the domain provider's information.
I don't think so. German laws is very particular about what should be in there.
Typical example: https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/
Typical example: https://www.rockit-internet.de/impressum/
no
Keep in mind that Hetzner has a rather lax (non-existing?) policy when it comes to stopping outbound spam, so make sure to check that IPs you get from them are not on MX blacklists.
To clarify - saying this as someone who was forced to blacklist their IPs on more than one occassion, not as someone who ran into tainted IPs as their customer.
To clarify - saying this as someone who was forced to blacklist their IPs on more than one occassion, not as someone who ran into tainted IPs as their customer.
From my experience this is false. Hetzner reacts to abuse notices and I never received a server with blacklisted IP addresses.
The only organization that caused issues is Microsoft / Outlook.com, but they seem to block every IP address by default. I was able to unblock myself by filling out a form and waiting a few hours for all my servers so far.
The only organization that caused issues is Microsoft / Outlook.com, but they seem to block every IP address by default. I was able to unblock myself by filling out a form and waiting a few hours for all my servers so far.
They do react to notices, but they don't do much about them.
Emailing [email protected] yields:
Still, even with this permission and several hours in, the box is still spamming, customer is "investigating" and Hetzner has done all they could to handle this incident.
Emailing [email protected] yields:
Dear Sir or Madam,
Thank you for your email.
In order for us to process your request, we ask that you
please fill out the form at the following link:
https://abuse.hetzner.de/
Please use this form for all future complaints.
Kind regards
Abuse team
Still, even with this permission and several hours in, the box is still spamming, customer is "investigating" and Hetzner has done all they could to handle this incident.
Would much rather have them investigate first, so you can't just abuse spam reports to shut down people's servers.
FWIW: I block Hetzner.
They have an automated abuse-handling system that sends your complaint to the spammer and asks them politely to stop. This often works for small-time operation on a single IP address, and for compromised servers, but it's completely inadequate for dealing with large customers and rogue resellers spamming over large netblocks, and against darker-coloured-hat spammers engaging in reprisals.
Replying to the automated mails can get you through to a human, but their ops are stuck on a limited script so they're not really any more use than the automated systems. They have no interest in investigating wider patterns of abuse than a single spam from a single IP.
I regret having to blacklist but it's not worth the time and frustration of trying to engage with them.
They have an automated abuse-handling system that sends your complaint to the spammer and asks them politely to stop. This often works for small-time operation on a single IP address, and for compromised servers, but it's completely inadequate for dealing with large customers and rogue resellers spamming over large netblocks, and against darker-coloured-hat spammers engaging in reprisals.
Replying to the automated mails can get you through to a human, but their ops are stuck on a limited script so they're not really any more use than the automated systems. They have no interest in investigating wider patterns of abuse than a single spam from a single IP.
I regret having to blacklist but it's not worth the time and frustration of trying to engage with them.
Considering you said you also block Amazon, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15494970, I don’t think your opinion will have much weight on this topic.
I don't aspire to weight, but I don't really know what you're getting at here - amazonses is commonly blocked as its abuse reporting is a brick wall, much worse than Hetzner who are at least trying, if ineffectively.
(Not talking about all of Amazon, just SES - AWS for example is a different animal.)
(Not talking about all of Amazon, just SES - AWS for example is a different animal.)
Considering how many legitimate services are on SES, if you block SES you might as well go with a whitelist for email.
That’s what I’m trying to get at here.
That’s what I’m trying to get at here.
Beating spam by playing whack-a-mole is a dead end, that ship sailed long, long ago.
Same here.
I've used Hetzner for two years and I never had any issue regarding blacklisted Ip addresses.
I've used Hetzner for two years and I never had any issue regarding blacklisted Ip addresses.
Was that a form by Microsoft? Would be great if you could share that, I’ve been looking for something like this forever!
Yes. You can find Hetzner's ( ;) ) explanation here: https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Microsoft_Blacklist/en.
It's the first link in the delisting section: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid
I also recommend signing up for SNDS.
It's the first link in the delisting section: http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=614866&clcid
I also recommend signing up for SNDS.
So cool, thanks a lot. I asked the Microsoft support twice, they didn’t even understand my problem!
To report a false positive blacklisting to Outlook.com:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=...
Check your /24 neighborhood first though, one of your neighbors might be sending spam:
https://www.talosintelligence.com/reputation_center/lookup
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/getsupport?oaspworkflow=...
Check your /24 neighborhood first though, one of your neighbors might be sending spam:
https://www.talosintelligence.com/reputation_center/lookup
I'm using a Hetzner VPS to host my mail for nearly 8 years now. Never had a single problem with blacklisting. I once lost IPv6 connection because of a routing mistake on their side but that was it.
We hardly see spam from Hetzner Germany.
We have also had good experience with Hetzner South Africa's abuse department.
We do see plenty of spam from OVH however. On one occasion when we reported several IPs to them for sending Russian spam, they did not reply.
We have also had good experience with Hetzner South Africa's abuse department.
We do see plenty of spam from OVH however. On one occasion when we reported several IPs to them for sending Russian spam, they did not reply.
Not my experience.
Uh, what? 14U colo rack space for 100 Euros per month[1], that's insane -- I must be missing something.
[1] https://www.hetzner.com/colocation/13-rack
[1] https://www.hetzner.com/colocation/13-rack
Yes, you pay German retail electricity prices, i.e. 24c/kwh. But they've always been that cheap.
What is the pricing per additional TB after the first 2TB?
That’s about common for colocation in larger German datacenters, so I don’t think you’re missing anything.
They had me at:
> Above-average raised floor system
> Above-average raised floor system
Great prices.
What's strange is that only RAM and disk space increase linearly with the price, not the CPU, nor the traffic. That creates an incentive to buy small instances and getting a lot more for your buck.
What's strange is that only RAM and disk space increase linearly with the price, not the CPU, nor the traffic. That creates an incentive to buy small instances and getting a lot more for your buck.
Probably because that's how servers can be set up most efficiently? It's probably much cheaper to run servers with a lot of ram and storage instead of having cpu-heavy machines (infrastructure, cooling, electricity).
I don't think Hetzner makes a promise w.r.t. the CPU clock. So lower end VPS might be hosted on high-core, low-clock machines.
[deleted]
This looks enticing. I may wish to become a Hetzner customer again.
That I am presently not one is entirely Hetzner's own doing: Some years ago, testing out their offerings (which were good!), at one point I deleted my last VPS, thinking I'd come back in a few days and actually start getting serious.
Not to be! Virtually the very second I deleted the instance, an email pinged in: No active machine, account deleted. Which sent me over the border to the French guys (Whose interface to this day is a riddle to me, every time I haven't worked with i for a week or two. I can read the French version, it's not a language thing, just a general UI disaster).
That I am presently not one is entirely Hetzner's own doing: Some years ago, testing out their offerings (which were good!), at one point I deleted my last VPS, thinking I'd come back in a few days and actually start getting serious.
Not to be! Virtually the very second I deleted the instance, an email pinged in: No active machine, account deleted. Which sent me over the border to the French guys (Whose interface to this day is a riddle to me, every time I haven't worked with i for a week or two. I can read the French version, it's not a language thing, just a general UI disaster).
We are very happy to see that offering. We were planning to move our German SaaS from AWS to Hetzner anyway and with Hetzner Cloud we expect things to be a lot easier for us. Congrats and thanks, Hetzner team!
Can anyone compare their service to Linode or DigitalOcean?
I'm currently using Linode but the Hetzner prices seem way lower:
For 35€ a month I get 32GB RAM, 8 vCPUs, 240GB SSD + 20TB Traffic. The comparable 40$ plan for Linode offers 8GB RAM 4 CPU Cores 48GB SSD and 3 TB Transfer (See: https://www.linode.com/pricing)
Am I missing something or is Hetzner just way more competetive?
https://www.linode.com/pricing
For 35€ a month I get 32GB RAM, 8 vCPUs, 240GB SSD + 20TB Traffic. The comparable 40$ plan for Linode offers 8GB RAM 4 CPU Cores 48GB SSD and 3 TB Transfer (See: https://www.linode.com/pricing)
Am I missing something or is Hetzner just way more competetive?
https://www.linode.com/pricing
Hetzner is easily 30% off OVH and half the price of other hosting providers (VPS and bare metal). So nothing surprising here. They have a cheap cost base (data centres in rural areas and wholesale electricity prices aren't that high in Germany) which probably explains most of that.
OVH had basically the same price but their heavy investments in new DCs have made them more expensive. Since Hetzner doesn't invest a lot (at least in new buildings) they don't need to raise prices for that.
OVH had basically the same price but their heavy investments in new DCs have made them more expensive. Since Hetzner doesn't invest a lot (at least in new buildings) they don't need to raise prices for that.
→ Hetzner: CX21, 2 cores, 4GB RAM - 5.83€
→ OVH VPS Cloud 2, 2 cores 4GB RAM: 23.79€
→ OVH VPS SSD 2, 1 core, 4GB RAM: 9.51€
→ OVH VPS SSD 3, 2 cores, 8GB RAM: 17.84€
For me, OVH's unlimited traffic does not explain the price difference. I will highly consider switching to Hetzner.
EDIT: correct meaning
→ OVH VPS Cloud 2, 2 cores 4GB RAM: 23.79€
→ OVH VPS SSD 2, 1 core, 4GB RAM: 9.51€
→ OVH VPS SSD 3, 2 cores, 8GB RAM: 17.84€
For me, OVH's unlimited traffic does not explain the price difference. I will highly consider switching to Hetzner.
EDIT: correct meaning
EDIT: Misunderstood OP's comment.
I think this is an example of a rather common mistake ESL speakers make regarding the meaning of "hardly".
Good catch. Another universal ESL mistake is to use "funny" when one means "fun."
Meanwhile, in Spanish I would mix up cebolla vs cepillo vs cabello vs caballo.
Approaching a woman in a bar: "I like your onion."
Meanwhile, in Spanish I would mix up cebolla vs cepillo vs cabello vs caballo.
Approaching a woman in a bar: "I like your onion."
Yes, I meant "highly". Thanks :)
Worth mentioning SoYouStart, OVH's low-end brand. I believe the way it works is that OVH is current-gen hardware, and SoYouStart is the hand-me-downs (which I think is a great model)
hetzner has a similar 'serverbidding' for older servers which can be quite a bargain, depending on the day https://www.hetzner.com/sb . i know that SYS is good as well
What really bothers me with SYS is the lack of ECC ram. Very few servers have it (and sometimes without support by the CPU). Wouldn't set up anything processing data without ECC.
Also worth mentioning that SoYouStart servers have slower network speeds (250Mbps compared to OVH's 500Mbps-1Gbps)
That's their mid-level brand. The low-end is Kimsufi :)
I’ve been maintaining the price comparison at git.io/vps for a while now, and the answer is:
No, you’re missing nothing. Yes, DO and especially AWS and GCP are about an order of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner, OVH, and similar providers. Much more for traffic.
It’s always been like this, the cloud providers simply have much larger profit margins.
No, you’re missing nothing. Yes, DO and especially AWS and GCP are about an order of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner, OVH, and similar providers. Much more for traffic.
It’s always been like this, the cloud providers simply have much larger profit margins.
[deleted]
I have multiple Barebone servers with Hetzner, never had any problems. The only thing I don't like is their control panel.
Edit: Their Cloudhosting control panel is top notch.
Edit: Their Cloudhosting control panel is top notch.
Hi! :)
The whole architecture has been redeveloped from scratch. We have also designed and developed an entirely new control panel called the Hetzner Cloud Console. It is and will be actively worked on to make it as easy to use as possible for our users. Feedback is highly appreciated :) Also the new cloud servers are billed hourly instead of monthly, as the old VPS were.
Full disclosure: I work for Hetzner Cloud as UX Designer.
The whole architecture has been redeveloped from scratch. We have also designed and developed an entirely new control panel called the Hetzner Cloud Console. It is and will be actively worked on to make it as easy to use as possible for our users. Feedback is highly appreciated :) Also the new cloud servers are billed hourly instead of monthly, as the old VPS were.
Full disclosure: I work for Hetzner Cloud as UX Designer.
You guys did a great job, the new control panel looks clean and is super fast!
Thank you so much! :)
After all the positive sentiment in this thread I signed up with the cloud service for a side project.
I have to say the UX is beautiful and easy to use. Also, the setup was easier, and performance better than any other provider I was testing. I'm sticking with hetzner.
I have to say the UX is beautiful and easy to use. Also, the setup was easier, and performance better than any other provider I was testing. I'm sticking with hetzner.
You dedicated servers page doesn't work anymore: https://www.hetzner.com/dedicated-rootserver?country=us
No matter what filter settings (including default) I see 0 results.
No matter what filter settings (including default) I see 0 results.
I would prefer Hetzner to concentrate on dedicated machines and expand datacenter locations (Asia, Canada).
Yeah, I'd like them to be a better dedicated server competitor to OVH as competition is normally good for the consumer. But I guess there's more demand for cloud computing these days.
For someone who knows about networking can you please comment on the following:
1. What would be the downside of hosting my Apache server on Hezner instead of AWS? Will it affect load times, website SEO, downtime?
2. Hosting Mysql Server on CX31 on Hezner instead of AWS? If my Apache server is on Ec2 and I make a connection to a Mysql server on Hezner will it affect performance of my sites because they're hosted on different places?
I have a very basic understanding of networking, so appreciate any comments from someone who knows about these.
1. What would be the downside of hosting my Apache server on Hezner instead of AWS? Will it affect load times, website SEO, downtime?
2. Hosting Mysql Server on CX31 on Hezner instead of AWS? If my Apache server is on Ec2 and I make a connection to a Mysql server on Hezner will it affect performance of my sites because they're hosted on different places?
I have a very basic understanding of networking, so appreciate any comments from someone who knows about these.
Since I have some experience with Hetzner:
1. Pings within Europe can be a bit longer than to other providers, they lack peering with some providers. However, nothing noticeable (10-20ms max) and behind cloudflare TTFB wasn't longer than with other providers. Keep in mind that this is central Europe, ~15ms more from the US compared to Google Cloud BE or OVH in France and around ~20-25ms longer latency to the US compared to UK/Ireland. I've never experienced downtime but follow their status on twitter and they sometimes have (announced) maintenance for vhosts, think they don't live migrate customers. But I've also experienced that with AWS.
SEO is dependent on response times and the provider shouldn't make a difference.
2. That shouldn't be an issue and they peer with Amazon in Frankfurt. Expect 20ms round trip per db query (from a European DC). Can make a difference for websites with a lot of small queries. I would keep webserver and database closer together and rather keep Apache also on Hetzner.
1. Pings within Europe can be a bit longer than to other providers, they lack peering with some providers. However, nothing noticeable (10-20ms max) and behind cloudflare TTFB wasn't longer than with other providers. Keep in mind that this is central Europe, ~15ms more from the US compared to Google Cloud BE or OVH in France and around ~20-25ms longer latency to the US compared to UK/Ireland. I've never experienced downtime but follow their status on twitter and they sometimes have (announced) maintenance for vhosts, think they don't live migrate customers. But I've also experienced that with AWS.
SEO is dependent on response times and the provider shouldn't make a difference.
2. That shouldn't be an issue and they peer with Amazon in Frankfurt. Expect 20ms round trip per db query (from a European DC). Can make a difference for websites with a lot of small queries. I would keep webserver and database closer together and rather keep Apache also on Hetzner.
1. Load time depends on the location of your visitors, see #2. Downtime is hard to evaluate, I expect the cloud to be fairly stable based on my experience with Hetzner.
2. For sure of you are using AWS in US: Traffic across the atlantic will incur at least ~65ms latency per roundtrip.
2. For sure of you are using AWS in US: Traffic across the atlantic will incur at least ~65ms latency per roundtrip.
Thanks. So it would be best to host on Hezner too. That's fine with me.
Can you comment if the location of my IP will affect my website SEO wrt to USA visitors?
Can you comment if the location of my IP will affect my website SEO wrt to USA visitors?
No it won't. US for European servers is no problem, round trip of <200ms is hardly noticeable (unless you have a lot of round trips and no CDN). It appears that Google looks at render times (at least that's what they communicate) and it's easy to lose 200ms by having 5 js resources even if the server is close. But Asian visitors will notice a deterioration if you had a server in US-West before. Latency Europe-East Asia/Australia is very high.
SEO is a black box, so there are no definite answers. It will affect load times (the 60ms) and that could have an effect on search engines.
Highly doubt Google and others would punish you for having a slightly bigger latency to your server and back.
If that was the case, all the companies that are hosted in the US would already be punished in Europe.
If that was the case, all the companies that are hosted in the US would already be punished in Europe.
Keep the response form Apache as small as possible and put static content in a CDN. Your SEO shouldn't be affected by that.
That said, noone knows the rules for Googles Ranking algorithm, so I guess you will have to try.
That said, noone knows the rules for Googles Ranking algorithm, so I guess you will have to try.
Update: When creating your Hetzner Cloud server, you can now inject cloud-init data. You can find more information at https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/CloudServer/en#Can_I_use_C... --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
I've used Hetzner and my general experience has been good.
Does anyone know if they offer per-customer, or per-project local networking?
It is something I can get from Packet.net, but not from Linode or DI (Although Linode promised that it was in their pipeline, I have yet to see it), OVH does offer this but I only experienced pain with their interface and service.
It is something I can get from Packet.net, but not from Linode or DI (Although Linode promised that it was in their pipeline, I have yet to see it), OVH does offer this but I only experienced pain with their interface and service.
Not from what I can see in the control panel. I personally use zero-tier to connect my servers on a virtual Ethernet adapter. But you probably want to avoid getting an ipv4 if I'm guessing correctly, so I don't think that would work for you.
Had some fun trying out these new cloud servers,
https://blog.simos.info/a-closer-look-at-the-new-hetzner-clo...
(not affiliated with Hetzner)
https://blog.simos.info/a-closer-look-at-the-new-hetzner-clo...
(not affiliated with Hetzner)
Do you support any other PaaS-API (E.G. CF) instead of your own hcloud cli?
We offer a Terraform plugin: https://github.com/hetznercloud/terraform-provider-hcloud --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
Wow - great!
If you are looking for german-based CF, you should have a look at https://www.meshcloud.io . They offer CF and OpenStack from german data centers.
You can find their new API documentation here:
https://docs.hetzner.cloud/
Cool - renting two CX31 instances plus a BX40 storage box seems to me a good solution running a private OpenShift cluster for under 50€ a month. Id need to figure it out!
Can the BX line be used as a network drive? It says "Useable as network drive" but what is the performance like?
I can‘t seem to find any FreeBSD but just Linux images when trying to create a CloudServer. Is it correct that right now they just have different Linux distros available?
I just wish Hetzner would start offering cheap low-end dedicated servers like OVH's Kimsufi or Online.net's "Personal family" Dedibox offerings...
Are you familiar with our server auction? https://www.hetzner.com/sb --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
I can remember Hetzner has been around for as long as OVH. Why has OVH expanded now way beyond France to US, Asia etc while Hetzner still EU only?
With Google, Microsoft Facebook as well as Amazon leading the way in layering out cables across continent, having a server in US means you have a high probability most ISP in the world has tuned the networking route around those traffic. The same cant be said for EU.
With Google, Microsoft Facebook as well as Amazon leading the way in layering out cables across continent, having a server in US means you have a high probability most ISP in the world has tuned the networking route around those traffic. The same cant be said for EU.
Is Hetzner not known to generally be a "bad" host? I have suffered so much abuse at the hands of their clients (DOS attacks, aggressive spidering/SQL Injection probing) that I've blocked their entire IP space on the majority of my client networks. I've never received a single response from their abuse report email/tool.
I guess the reason might be that their machines are cheap and thus they probably have many semi-professional / personal customers who leave their systems insecured.
Nevertheless, I have made very good experience with their hardware, network and customer support - so they are also suitable for professional customers.
Nevertheless, I have made very good experience with their hardware, network and customer support - so they are also suitable for professional customers.
I'm a (happy) Hetzner customer. A few years ago I ran some services with easily guessable/forceable passwords and my host turned into a node of a cracking botnet for a day or two.
Hetzner got nasty mails from a couple of "victim" sites, forwarded them to me, helped me clean house and everything was fixed and airtight within hours.
I think it's to be expected that a few self-managed root hosts will be poorly managed (like mine was) or abused. But as far as I can tell, Hetzner does a credible job of taking care of problems.
Hetzner got nasty mails from a couple of "victim" sites, forwarded them to me, helped me clean house and everything was fixed and airtight within hours.
I think it's to be expected that a few self-managed root hosts will be poorly managed (like mine was) or abused. But as far as I can tell, Hetzner does a credible job of taking care of problems.
We're blaming hosts for the actions of customers now?
Well one experience doesn't necessarily mean anything (on either side) but I'm absolutely surprised that that was your experience since everything we found was nothing but an amazing product that was not proportional to the price we paid in the good sense.
One often overlooked detail, which I just could not figure out by looking at their product page is which virtualization software they use. I haven't made particularly good experiences with OpenVZ in terms of flexibility and would rather have them use something like KVM.
I'm thinking soon "enough" (as in: personal server) compute/ram/disk will be free and you can play with servers for nothing riding completely on the backs of larger paying customers. Like with wordpress.com or any service with a free tier really.
Is the location of the cloud-server still Nürnberg/Falkenstein?
The prices seem to be very low.
They are also in process of building out in Finland (https://www.cinia.fi/en/archive/hetzner-data-center-park-hel...). There's a direct GER-FIN fiber link laid in the Baltic, owned partially by Hetzner (https://www.cinia.fi/en/services/international-connectivity-...).
Makes Finland sense if you want to connect to Asian customers? Is there a good link Finland-JP/Korea/Singapore?
Otherwise I fail to see why Finland makes sense, unless you need cheaper energy for applications that don't need low latency.
Otherwise I fail to see why Finland makes sense, unless you need cheaper energy for applications that don't need low latency.
We do have cheap energy (from nuclear and mostly renewable CHP), cheap cooling, availability of educated workforce and stable state. And good network connections to Russia in addition to Nordic and Baltic states and continental Europe.
But latency to Russia and Baltic states isn't that different from where Hetzner already is. I just try to understand why people would choose Hetzner's new DC in Finland over that in Germany unless they offer cheaper prices there.
Cheaper to keep cool.
That's interesting! Thanks for pointing out.
Looks like it, according to the features/location:
We host our cloud instances in our own data centers in Nuremberg and Falkenstein. And we operate our data centers in accordance with ISO 27001 guidelines while also adhering to strict German data protection regulations.I wish they'd offer could service hosted in South Africa.
Hetzner Cloud servers are based in Nürnberg and Falkenstein.
yes, it is. German laws for data protection apply.
Not German, but European Laws apply.
This ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/679/oj ) replaces all data proyection laws in the EU.
Must comply now, but sanctions won't be in effect until may 25th.
This ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2016/679/oj ) replaces all data proyection laws in the EU.
Must comply now, but sanctions won't be in effect until may 25th.
EDIT: I seem to be wrong. This is a hybrid of a EU regulation that needs to be implemented into local law, and "EU law" that has direct application everywhere. Also there are specific rules on how much stronger the member states can make their local rules. I'm leaving my error in the text below.
That is not technically correct, and the difference matters.
The EU regulation forces it's members to implement their own local laws in alignment to the EU regulation. The EU regulation can get a member state into trouble if not implemented in time or correctly. They describe a set of "baseline" data protection laws for the whole EU, but the members can still have stronger local rules. Only the local law is what can get a resident company in trouble.
Germany has (had for a long time) very strong data protection laws that are still going to be stronger than the EU regulation.
That is not technically correct, and the difference matters.
The EU regulation forces it's members to implement their own local laws in alignment to the EU regulation. The EU regulation can get a member state into trouble if not implemented in time or correctly. They describe a set of "baseline" data protection laws for the whole EU, but the members can still have stronger local rules. Only the local law is what can get a resident company in trouble.
Germany has (had for a long time) very strong data protection laws that are still going to be stronger than the EU regulation.
Your comment is not strictly "wrong", as you say, it's just that the law is changing. The new regulation comes in* on May 25th. Your comment correctly describes the current system, which is being replaced.
* By "comes in", I mean begins being enforced. There's been a 2 year grace period as advance notice.
* By "comes in", I mean begins being enforced. There's been a 2 year grace period as advance notice.
[deleted]
Tried it out. You can't sign in with your email address, you have to use a user name they assign to you. My assigned user name is more secure than my password and impossible to remember. I suppose it's good for security, but it's also super inconvenient.
Password manager sounds like something you could employ for this?
IF that is true, I suggest you choose a stronger password...
2gb ram minimum, nice. Do they still require a scan of your id/passport though?
Yes. We check IDs of our new customers. We find that this is one of the most effective ways of preventing abuse. A short time after we have verified your ID, the personal data we collected to process your order will be deleted in accordance with German data protection laws. After your first order, you don't need to provide your ID again. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
Kudos to Germany for sane-minded laws about personal data and to Hetzner for respecting such laws!
Can you confirm that you delete the ID after verification? Your sentence seems like a lawyer's answer.
What's ambiguous about that answer? "the personal data we collected to process your order will be deleted" sounds pretty clear. Obviously a copy of an ID is personal data.
they did ask copy of passport for dedicated server this summer. Don't know about VPS though
When you create a new cloud server, there is a tab called CEPH (for the Ceph network filesystem).
It does not have any options and it looks like it is not active yet. It would be great if they offered network storage through Ceph.
It does not have any options and it looks like it is not active yet. It would be great if they offered network storage through Ceph.
This is another product type runnning on SSD-backed Ceph storage instead of NVME SSDs. Thank you for pointing out this hiccup in our user interface. I've passed that information on to my team members. --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
When you switch tabs, the same server you selected should remain selected.
It seems like the option for backup space (external storage) does not exist like in their vServers. I hope they will return it because they offered really cheap storage compared to Vultr and DO.
Why do I see a higher price in the web console than on the product page?
Because product page doesn't include VAT. But once you login the VAT is applied on the prices.
Oh, I was wondering why the prices on https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=de are higher than on https://www.hetzner.com/cloud?country=us, this explains it.
Makes sense, but not how it's usually done in Germany.
Whats the difference to their VPS's ? I had one until last month with pretty much the specs of the cx21 but it cost a little bit more ?
Are they just lowering their prices or am I missing out on features ?
Are they just lowering their prices or am I missing out on features ?
Hi! :)
The whole architecture has been redeveloped from scratch. We have also designed and developed an entirely new control panel called the Hetzner Cloud Console. It is and will be actively worked on to make it as easy to use as possible for our users. Feedback is highly appreciated :) Also the new cloud servers are billed hourly instead of monthly, as the old VPS were.
Full disclosure: I work for Hetzner Cloud as UX Designer.
The whole architecture has been redeveloped from scratch. We have also designed and developed an entirely new control panel called the Hetzner Cloud Console. It is and will be actively worked on to make it as easy to use as possible for our users. Feedback is highly appreciated :) Also the new cloud servers are billed hourly instead of monthly, as the old VPS were.
Full disclosure: I work for Hetzner Cloud as UX Designer.
The VPS's were never billed hourly, so you wouldn't have used them in a cloudy, disposable, dynamically scalable way.
As for all cloud providers, you are billed by an hourly rate instead of committing to pay a fixed price for the full month. This gives the customer the flexibility to scale the required power dynamically.
[deleted]
You can't rent a VPS with an API call, can you?
Or directly from your terminal :) https://github.com/hetznercloud/cli
e/ am part of the team working on hetzner cloud
e/ am part of the team working on hetzner cloud
Loving the competition in the market. Object Store would be nice. Can't wait to see what happens when NAND/DRAM markets start clearing and there are multiple competitive 7nm nodes.
[deleted]
Does anyone know off hand whether whether it's possible to install nixos on Hetzner cloud servers, either manually or using nixops?
The cloud servers can be booted into a rescue system.
https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Hetzner_Rescue-System/en
From there you can do pretty much what you desire.
https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Hetzner_Rescue-System/en
From there you can do pretty much what you desire.
nixops has hetzner deployment support, but I don't yet know how well it works (my account verification is still pending)
https://nixos.org/nixops/manual/#opt-deployment.hetzner.crea...
https://nixos.org/nixops/manual/#opt-deployment.hetzner.crea...
Hetzner require your ID before you create any server. This is huge inconvenience. So i opted to DO and scaleway and never looked back.
They require ID the first time. It's inconvenient, but given the price difference vs. DO, it's very much worth it.
I think it's more complicated than that. I was able to create an account and start a server without an ID whatsoever.
It may very well be the restrictions depend on products and location etc., but the point is anyway is that even when they ask for ID, it's always been for the initial order only.
Anything using virtualization is still less secure than dedicated machines.
If you want security, use dedicated servers.
If you want security, use dedicated servers.
Can you upload ISO files?
Once you have your own server, you can of course upload whatever you want. But you're probably asking about booting from an ISO image. As a few other people have said, Hetzner offers a "boot from rescue image" service which apparently lets you boot from an uploaded ISO. I never tried this on my own Hetzner server though.
If you're hardcore, you can also do what a friend of mine did: Use the provided Linux system (Debian, Ubuntu, there's a bunch of choices) to fiddle its own boot loader, possibly re-partition the disk, upload your favorite system and reboot into that. You're root, you can do what the hell you want; at worst you might end up bricking your system to the point where you need to re-install from the rescue system.
If you're hardcore, you can also do what a friend of mine did: Use the provided Linux system (Debian, Ubuntu, there's a bunch of choices) to fiddle its own boot loader, possibly re-partition the disk, upload your favorite system and reboot into that. You're root, you can do what the hell you want; at worst you might end up bricking your system to the point where you need to re-install from the rescue system.
The reason I ask is that I have some specific Windows software and I would like to upload Windows ISO with VirtIO drivers and use my own cd-key instead of paying additional 16 EUR per month for a license that I already have.
What i would love to see offered by hetzner is loadbalancers :)
Shouldn't be too hard to set up yourself. As their traffic is so cheap, external vs. internal traffic doesn't really matter.
Out of interest, how do you spec the ram/cpu for a load balancer?
I need a newtwork load balancer so i don't have to spend 25 eur for additional server to act as a loadbalancer in simpler and budget restricted scenarios.
Why do you need a load balancer if you don't have enough traffic to justify a beefier dedicated box with a few tb data included and a proper gb uplink? Are you streaming game/3d data or something where each request is really compute heavy, but data is less than 100mbs?
[ed: never mind - 20tb included for the cheapest box. That's a bit of a departure from earlier. That's 60 mbps sustained 24/7 for a month. That's probably hard to meet with a full regular web stack running on a single tiny vm..
Oth, should be able to just ha proxy on one of those - or two-three w heartbeat...]
[ed: never mind - 20tb included for the cheapest box. That's a bit of a departure from earlier. That's 60 mbps sustained 24/7 for a month. That's probably hard to meet with a full regular web stack running on a single tiny vm..
Oth, should be able to just ha proxy on one of those - or two-three w heartbeat...]
If one machine goes down (updates, hacked, hardware failure) i still need to have a second one that can handle the incoming requests
haproxy
Any answer to AWS's spot instances feature?
I would really like to try Hetzner since it's a respectable company and offers much lower prices than DO or Linode, however, they need an ID verification. Since I am egyptian and have no passport, I cannot register. I hope they find a more resilient way for registration.
Why don't you get a passport, government ID, or driver's license? I'm honestly interested, if that's not too personal to ask.
I showed them my government ID but they refused, understandably because it's in Arabic language. They asked for an English passport. But since I didn't have one, I couldn't continue the registration. It's really frustrating. Why isn't my credit card enough to verify my identity? Almost all top cloud/vps providers don't ask such questions.
Because of stolen credit cards? They are minimising potential damages like this. Malicious actors are less likely to give their ID to send spam and ID cards are harder to steal than Credit cards :)
Be assured malicious actors got plenty of stolen ids.
They afaik had some of problems with botnets using their cheap infrastructure in the early to mid 2000s. Might have something to do with it.
Maybe you could get them to accept a notarized translation (Beglaubigte Übersetzung) of your ID. It's gonna add about 50€ up-front cost, so I don't know if that's worth the price or the hassle at your project scope.
Probably German laws.
It feels intrusive to be honest.
AFAIK Hetzner and other major German hosting companies require scan of EU/EEA ID or international passport. Possibly this is required by German law. Just acquire a passport or find local reseller on some "webhostingtalk"-like forum.
My US Driver's License was enough for them as well, but that was almost 4 years ago, so things might have changed.
That got me curious, are you saying you don't have a passport because you're Egyptian, or was that just an additional piece of information separate from the passport? (Don't know if I'm missing some international news/info here.)
Also, maybe it would be worth contacting their support about your situation, maybe some other form of identification can be used.
Also, maybe it would be worth contacting their support about your situation, maybe some other form of identification can be used.
I just never needed a passport, so I don't have one so far.
I just signed up and needed no verification. Does this differ from country to country?
No clue about this new product, but their previous virtual server offering had NATed IPv4 and they generally have an idiotic IPv6 policy (only small prefixes, you have to pay extra to get anything remotely sensible--like, default /64 even on dedicated servers, you can get a /56 if you pay for it, more isn't supported).
Could you explain why a /64 is too small for you? I'm really curious.
Because that is the size of a single subnet, so you cannot do any useful network design with that.
Also, mind you that they have a /29 assigned from RIPE, so they would have sufficient space for 134,217,728 /56s or 524.288 /48s. They choose to leave all that address space unused for nothing, forcing their customers to work around a completely artificial scarcity of address space. Exactly the opposite of why they got a /29 from RIPE (and they could easily get more if they did actually manage to use it up).
Also, mind you that they have a /29 assigned from RIPE, so they would have sufficient space for 134,217,728 /56s or 524.288 /48s. They choose to leave all that address space unused for nothing, forcing their customers to work around a completely artificial scarcity of address space. Exactly the opposite of why they got a /29 from RIPE (and they could easily get more if they did actually manage to use it up).
Is it me or does this look more like those "Cloud VPS" type of services other companies offer. If you use 5x more than your initial plan in a month, does it just scale up automatically or do you have to contact support to upgrade first?
[deleted]
Anyone know why this was upvoted?
I can't tell it apart from the dozens of other "good" cloud providers (Lightsail, Digital Ocean, Vultr, Linode)
I can't tell it apart from the dozens of other "good" cloud providers (Lightsail, Digital Ocean, Vultr, Linode)
Can someone benchmark this please? Probably nbench or something..
Why is there advertising on HN?
It's a new product that's of interest to a large part of the audience. Just like a new Google Phone etc.
Hetzner used to be a rather big conventional hoster. I'm surprised to see them up and running these days when all big co seemed to have migrated to that cloud thingy
Well, they cost very little in comparison to the big cloud hosters and have great performance. Most startups nowadays can be hosted on a single big vertical machine just fine with perhaps another machine for a hot spare.
I think the much-heralded cloud elasticity for most startups only serves to please investors "we can scale if we blow up over night!".
I think the much-heralded cloud elasticity for most startups only serves to please investors "we can scale if we blow up over night!".
I once allocated a dedicated machine from Hetzner faster than I get a stupid crippled VM from AWS
Well, actually they made themselves a name for their quality products. And while everybody was busy minimizing their server usage in the advent of cloud computing, Hetzner worked on lowering the prices.
Therefore, they got an international reputation for delivering high quality for a cheap price.
This new offer looks very promising. I like the simple price model of 'pay per hour' + a fair 'maximum price per month'.
Therefore, they got an international reputation for delivering high quality for a cheap price.
This new offer looks very promising. I like the simple price model of 'pay per hour' + a fair 'maximum price per month'.
It's not a conventional hoster in the sense of hosting WAMP/LAMP/MAMP, but enterprises (mainly from Europe) used their dedicated servers a lot for their stuff.
There is still a demand for dedicated servers, although it is becoming more and more niche, I think.
Companies with actually performance constrained software without a doubt. There are not so few of them.
There is a big pit in between own DC, and a lot of VM's in terms of economic scalability.
Own DC pays pack when you have 500+ to 1000+ machines in a single location.
There is a big pit in between own DC, and a lot of VM's in terms of economic scalability.
Own DC pays pack when you have 500+ to 1000+ machines in a single location.
Basically resellers and enterprises
Looks like they're taking on LowEndSpirit, except with a slightly better offering. Not quite beastly EC2, or piggybacking a VPS on someone's Nokia 3310.
Any current clients know how fast provisioning is on these?
Any current clients know how fast provisioning is on these?
From their website:
"Our quick and clever Cloud Console lets you create server instances almost instantly, usually in under 10 seconds."Duh, I should've read the page when I wasn't as busy... Thanks!
I just fired up an instance took 7 seconds.
Good to see Hetzner catching up to OVH.
Some crude comparison of their offers:
Hetzner
OVH
Hetzner
CX11
€ 2,96
1 vCPU
2 GB RAM
20 GB NVMe SSD
20 TB Traffic
CX21
€ 5,83
2 vCPU
4 GB RAM
40 GB NVMe SSD
20 TB Traffic
CX31
€ 10,59
2 vCPU
8 GB RAM
80 GB NVMe SSD
20 TB Traffic
CX41
€ 18,92
4 vCPU
16 GB RAM
160 GB NVMe SSD
20 TB Traffic
CX51
€ 35,58
8 vCPU
32 GB RAM
240 GB NVMe SSD
20 TB Traffic
OVH
VPS SSD 1
1 vCore(s)
2 Go de RAM
10 Go SSD
3,99 €
VPS SSD 2
1 vCore(s)
4 Go de RAM
20 Go SSD
6,99 €
VPS SSD 3
2 vCore(s)
8 Go de RAM
40 Go SSD
12,99 €You're comparing OVH's SSD where they don't guarantee speed and have 100mbit connections. Speed on those can be incredibly slow. For a fair comparison you'd have to use their public cloud instances which are 2-3x the price of Hetzner.
My understanding has been that OVH offers guaranteed bandwidth of 100mbit and Hetzners has a 10 Gbit network connection, but I would guess that this connection is shared and doesn't offer any guarantees. Hetzners free traffic is also capped at 20TB. Therefore I left this details away as it is difficult to compare. If would love to see a detailed comparison.
Hetzner has internal and incoming free. I only need that kind of bandwidth when I restore backups or load large datasets. That's either internal or infrequent and so far, I was always able to max out their bandwidth (haven't tested the cloud product yet).
Hetzner still haven't said anything to me about Spectre/Meltdown, or rebooted my VPS, so I'm not sure I trust them any more!
Prior to this announcement, the announcement about Spectre/Meltdown migration was literally at the very top of their customer homepage. After this announcement, it is the second thing you see when you log in: https://i.imgur.com/XTSTHkR.jpg
I can't think of an approach that would be more direct to their customers than seeing it on top of their customer homepage.
I can't think of an approach that would be more direct to their customers than seeing it on top of their customer homepage.
They have written an extensive article about it here:
https://wiki.hetzner.de/index.php/Spectre_and_Meltdown/en
In the context of renting one of their VPS this is fair criticism. The information handed out by Hetzner is not adequate regarding their exposure and timeframe for patching. It's been several weeks since the public disclosure, and if they are still vulnerable for meltdown this puts all customers systems at massive risk.
"The host systems will be updated to fix the vulnerabilities as soon as possible. The necessary reboots will be announced on Hetzner Status. You may subscribe to be notified. "
"The host systems will be updated to fix the vulnerabilities as soon as possible. The necessary reboots will be announced on Hetzner Status. You may subscribe to be notified. "
Our Cloud plattform has applied all currently released stable patches. We expect to apply more patches as they are released by our vendors over the new few days and weeks. The existing CX plattform was, has, and will be updated via live migration without any noticeable customer impact --Katie, Marketing, Hetzner Online
That's strange. I remember getting an e-mail from them about it some time ago. Perhaps they had issues e-mailing you. Check your spam folder.
Nope, plenty of email from them. Nothing in spam.
Anyway, the proof is in the 264 day uptime!
Anyway, the proof is in the 264 day uptime!
You can freeze a VPS, save its state and restore it later without affecting the uptime. The clock would get skewed (system time vs hardware time difference), but unless you have something that detects that you won't even notice it.
IIRC there is something called "Live Migration" which could easily explain why you can see 264 days of uptime even with the hypervisors updating below