London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
London’s fatberg on show: ‘We thought of pickling it’
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/feb/04/fatberg-museum-london-display-pickling-age-waste
61 comments
>>And don't flush wet wipes! Why do people still think this is OK?
Because it literally says "flushable" on them?
Because it literally says "flushable" on them?
Which is something the manufacturers continue to get away with, for absolutely no good reason.
Consumers' trust in marketing is mindblowing.
Consumers' trust in marketing is mindblowing.
>>Consumers' trust in marketing is mindblowing.
On the other hand, I don't feel like consumer should have to care about this at all. If it says flushable, it should be flushable. I'd trust relevant agencies to enforce this, just like they already enforce "free range", "organic" and "juice" - at least here in UK those terms have a legal meaning behind them and consumers can safely know they get what they pay for. If a wipe says "flushable" but it isn't, then that should be rectified on the regulatory level.
On the other hand, I don't feel like consumer should have to care about this at all. If it says flushable, it should be flushable. I'd trust relevant agencies to enforce this, just like they already enforce "free range", "organic" and "juice" - at least here in UK those terms have a legal meaning behind them and consumers can safely know they get what they pay for. If a wipe says "flushable" but it isn't, then that should be rectified on the regulatory level.
I think one should expect at least some level of critical thought.
Wet wipes are stored wet, for weeks, months or years. They do not decompose, in fact they stand up very well to liquids without losing structural integrity.
Applying just a bit of critical thought based on those observations, makes it abundantly clear that wet wipes will not dissolve in the wet environment of a sewer, and will in fact very easily get caught and cause a blockage.
Wet wipes are stored wet, for weeks, months or years. They do not decompose, in fact they stand up very well to liquids without losing structural integrity.
Applying just a bit of critical thought based on those observations, makes it abundantly clear that wet wipes will not dissolve in the wet environment of a sewer, and will in fact very easily get caught and cause a blockage.
This was supposed to be the benefit of living in a highly regulated economy. If the regulators are worthless, then remove their drag on the economy. Otherwise make them worthwhile.
I add in a load of detergent (Fairy!) to that occasional full kettle of boiling water down the plughole.
>A third of Londoners admitted they didn't know you weren't supposed to flush fat down the sink.
So what am I supposed to do with it? Put it in the trash? That's not acceptable for the same reason that putting anything liquid in the rubbish bin isn't acceptable. :/
So what am I supposed to do with it? Put it in the trash? That's not acceptable for the same reason that putting anything liquid in the rubbish bin isn't acceptable. :/
Quite often you can wait for it to solidify before disposing of it.
I have a tiny kitchen with only room for a few pots and pans, which is pretty much the norm in London. That's not a terribly viable solution, I'm afraid.
This isn't quite as bad as saying "don't poop in the toilet; wait for it to dry out before putting it in the trash", but it's in the same neighborhood.
This isn't quite as bad as saying "don't poop in the toilet; wait for it to dry out before putting it in the trash", but it's in the same neighborhood.
This isn't quite as bad as saying "don't poop in the toilet; wait for it to dry out before putting it in the trash", but it's in the same neighborhood.
Neighborhood? It's not even in the same city. Your toilet was specifically designed to consume poop. The same cannot be said for cooking fats/oils and the sewer system.
Neighborhood? It's not even in the same city. Your toilet was specifically designed to consume poop. The same cannot be said for cooking fats/oils and the sewer system.
>The same cannot be said for cooking fats/oils and the sewer system.
In most places, that can be said. In places where it can't, you need a more comprehensive solution than "don't do that".
In most places, that can be said. In places where it can't, you need a more comprehensive solution than "don't do that".
You pour it back into the container it came in when it's cool, and then you throw it out, or take it to your local household recycling centre where they can dispose of it for you.
Or make them into "Fat Cakes" to feed birds my adding seeds: https://www.saga.co.uk/magazine/home-garden/gardening/wildli...
Or keep a food tin around after emptying so you can pour the waste fat into it. Or seal it in something reusable and use it as the fat for your next fryjob.
You have a kitchen so tiny it cannot find room for a single old tomato sauce jar? My condolences.
I pour it into mason jars. If it's a fat type that can be rendered into lard I do that, but for oils and other unsaturated fats they just get stored until the jar is full and then tossed in the trash.
Does anyone know why the fat doesn't get broken down by bacteria; why doesn't it just rot away?
London's water supply is pretty heavily chlorinated. Wouldn't that surpress bacterial activity?
I doubt that. To me, London tap water never tasts like chlorine, I suspect it's chlorinated much less than most tap water in the US.
I thought that you use fluorine in the USA instead of chlorine.
Fluorine is an additive to prevent teeth decay; chlorine or chloramine is to prevent disease in the water. Both are routinely added in the US.
Exactly. Worth adding if you live in USA and have a chance to visit your local water treatment plantation (they always welcome visitors), go see their state-of-the-art system for treating water. What I didn't know is that there is very complicated system that forbids flushing water back into the central system to poison it. The idea is that a terrorist could plug themselves into pipe and inject poison that will travel back to the treatment plant and obviously from there go to each sink, sort of like an online virus :) very cool stuff.
That’s probably just the justification for the grant used to get federal money for the system.
The reality is that if you have people equipped to poison the water supply, they will be able to. Most water systems have multiple interconnects with neighboring systems to allow exchange of treated water. Security is typically nonexistent.
The good news is that that type of attack isn’t particularly useful as a terrorist event and is likely low risk.
The reality is that if you have people equipped to poison the water supply, they will be able to. Most water systems have multiple interconnects with neighboring systems to allow exchange of treated water. Security is typically nonexistent.
The good news is that that type of attack isn’t particularly useful as a terrorist event and is likely low risk.
Going to call "urban legend" on the terrorist angle.
Texas is putting it back into the municipal system.
https://www.texastribune.org/2012/06/11/texas-gets-creative-...
Basically, water treatment plants have to make human-safe water, but then they dump it into rivers or the aquifer, where it mixes with other water and is pulled out again downstream for purification. The logic is that we may as well skip the "mix it with untreated water" stage.
Google "toilet to tap" for more examples.
Bill Gates drank some:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/01/10/3761823...
Texas is putting it back into the municipal system.
https://www.texastribune.org/2012/06/11/texas-gets-creative-...
Basically, water treatment plants have to make human-safe water, but then they dump it into rivers or the aquifer, where it mixes with other water and is pulled out again downstream for purification. The logic is that we may as well skip the "mix it with untreated water" stage.
Google "toilet to tap" for more examples.
Bill Gates drank some:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/01/10/3761823...
Is it really because of terrorists? Or because it's simply common sense?
Coming from Central Europe it tastes like chlorine for me. Not as extrem as US water - but absolutely noticeable.
Going also to say that its likely many of the sanitary items are heavy in medical agents too
Is it really though? I've lived three places in London and made sourdoughs with tap water in all with no trouble. If it can't kill nacent yeast cultures, I wouldn't expect it to have many chances against sewer bacteria.
TLDR: It's not as simple as "apply bleach - things die."
Yeast and bacteria are not the same thing. Practically, bleach doesn't kill yeast - if you try to kill fungus in your shower or on a wall with bleach, what that does is make it white. Which to us is a strong indication that it's dead, but it probably isn't.
To clean fungus from your shower, for example, you need to mix vinegar and fresh bleach with cold water (of which the fumes can actually kill you as well) and use the solution properly, or use an industrial cleaning agent.
Of course, someone who bleaches their shower will probably also wash it after (you should wash it _first_ before applying bleach), which might simply _physically remove_ most of the fungus from the surface. But depending on the solution you use, the fungus won't actually die.
Note that the above is mostly true in household use of bleach, and not in correct use. Bleach _does_ kill most fungus if used correctly, but essentially noone does. Hot water significantly reduces the effectiveness of bleach, and so does using _more_ than you should, and also it loses effectiveness rapidly when it comes in contact with unclean surfaces, fat/organic material (which there is plenty of on your wall), etc, and also doesn't have a long shelf-life (20% effectiveness lost yearly if stored properly). It also needs 10-30 minutes of contact time, compared to some prepared solutions that are 90% effective in a few seconds, and 95% effective after 10 seconds.
Yeast and bacteria are not the same thing. Practically, bleach doesn't kill yeast - if you try to kill fungus in your shower or on a wall with bleach, what that does is make it white. Which to us is a strong indication that it's dead, but it probably isn't.
To clean fungus from your shower, for example, you need to mix vinegar and fresh bleach with cold water (of which the fumes can actually kill you as well) and use the solution properly, or use an industrial cleaning agent.
Of course, someone who bleaches their shower will probably also wash it after (you should wash it _first_ before applying bleach), which might simply _physically remove_ most of the fungus from the surface. But depending on the solution you use, the fungus won't actually die.
Note that the above is mostly true in household use of bleach, and not in correct use. Bleach _does_ kill most fungus if used correctly, but essentially noone does. Hot water significantly reduces the effectiveness of bleach, and so does using _more_ than you should, and also it loses effectiveness rapidly when it comes in contact with unclean surfaces, fat/organic material (which there is plenty of on your wall), etc, and also doesn't have a long shelf-life (20% effectiveness lost yearly if stored properly). It also needs 10-30 minutes of contact time, compared to some prepared solutions that are 90% effective in a few seconds, and 95% effective after 10 seconds.
you need to mix vinegar and fresh bleach
with cold water (of which the fumes can
actually kill you as well)
I believe it was Charlie Talley on this podcast: http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da96899933961/bbr03-29-07...
Essentially, you use the vinegar to adjust the pH of the water to the correct level - 8.0 - to get the right effect from the bleach (chlorine). Again, I have to stress what I said in my first post, that this _can be deadly for you_ if you don't use it correctly.
http://podbay.fm/show/75092679/e/1175200200 might be a better link, I'm not sure. Interview starts around 9:30.
Charlie is the inventor of Star San, a sanitizing solution used in breweries and by homebrewers. Which should make you skeptical, but don't be. He's essentially an expert who made a fantastic product, and only wants to help. In the podcast he outlines how to use normal household products as replacements for his products.
I haven't listened to it since 2012 or so, so if I am mistaken about the source, please let me know and I'll find the correct source of the information in my original post.
Essentially, you use the vinegar to adjust the pH of the water to the correct level - 8.0 - to get the right effect from the bleach (chlorine). Again, I have to stress what I said in my first post, that this _can be deadly for you_ if you don't use it correctly.
http://podbay.fm/show/75092679/e/1175200200 might be a better link, I'm not sure. Interview starts around 9:30.
Charlie is the inventor of Star San, a sanitizing solution used in breweries and by homebrewers. Which should make you skeptical, but don't be. He's essentially an expert who made a fantastic product, and only wants to help. In the podcast he outlines how to use normal household products as replacements for his products.
I haven't listened to it since 2012 or so, so if I am mistaken about the source, please let me know and I'll find the correct source of the information in my original post.
"Is it really though? I've lived three places in London and made sourdoughs with tap water in all with no trouble."
That's interesting. I haven't made real sourdough for a long time, but I do bake bagels, bread, and pizza dough pretty regularly. While London tap water does work, I've noticed on many occasions that the dough rises a lot faster and requires much less yeast when using filtered or bottled water (I usually use the cheap Tesco Ashbeck water that you buy in big 5L bottles) compared to using straight tap water.
But whether this is due to chlorination or other factors (London water is notoriously "hard", too) I'm not sure.
That's interesting. I haven't made real sourdough for a long time, but I do bake bagels, bread, and pizza dough pretty regularly. While London tap water does work, I've noticed on many occasions that the dough rises a lot faster and requires much less yeast when using filtered or bottled water (I usually use the cheap Tesco Ashbeck water that you buy in big 5L bottles) compared to using straight tap water.
But whether this is due to chlorination or other factors (London water is notoriously "hard", too) I'm not sure.
Leaving water out for 24 hours will get rid of chlorine, so will boiling. Did your process involve either of those?
Leaving it to stand works for chlorine, but not for chloramine, which a lot of tap water is treated with now instead. One would have to check with one's supplier.
I have been fermenting home made ginger beer either using filtered water, or water sat out for 24 hours. So probably not with chloramine in it.
I understand that there are two things: first, it's not just fat – it's fat plus nappies plus wipes plus sanitary goods. Second, the combination of the fat with metallic salts in the water causes saponification, so you end up with some kind of calcium-magnesium soap mixed in with it.
Not sure, but this is a problem on a smaller scale in domestic plumbing too.
I suspect because it's been cooked and lost all its emulsifiers, resulting in a hydrophobic blob. Water-based bacteria just slide off. I've seen cooked fat sit around in a kitchen for ages with no visible decay effects (but I wouldn't use it for cooking!)
I suspect because it's been cooked and lost all its emulsifiers, resulting in a hydrophobic blob. Water-based bacteria just slide off. I've seen cooked fat sit around in a kitchen for ages with no visible decay effects (but I wouldn't use it for cooking!)
Fat doesn't decompose very readily - which is why it's commonly used to seal jars of meat products like terrine and pâté.
In anaerobic conditions, you get hydrolysis of fat, in which the water content is removed and the fats end up saturated and indigestible further by anaerobic processes. Cf. Corpse Wax.
In aerobic conditions, they'll be broken down into aldehydes and ketones.
I'm guessing that the interior of a monstrous fatberg is rather anaerobic, so you just end up with a great big blob of saturated fatty acids.
In anaerobic conditions, you get hydrolysis of fat, in which the water content is removed and the fats end up saturated and indigestible further by anaerobic processes. Cf. Corpse Wax.
In aerobic conditions, they'll be broken down into aldehydes and ketones.
I'm guessing that the interior of a monstrous fatberg is rather anaerobic, so you just end up with a great big blob of saturated fatty acids.
It's actually been used as a way to preserve food in the past, often as a kind of watertight plug or seal to keep food from going bad.
Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKzWQOVET4
Here's a great example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdKzWQOVET4
Fat is such a fantastic store of energy I am really surprised nothing evolved to eat it in this form.
Given the recent Lancet study on the healthfulness of high fat diets, maybe these could be recycled for food.
The Chinese have quite the problem with exactly that. Eating something pulled out of a sewer tends to have health effects and gutter oil is sometimes made from grease from a sewer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gutter_oil
The depths of human depravity know no bounds.
> Flushers report finds of motorbikes, prams, coins, phones and jewellery – and once a live hand grenade.
OK, I understand coins, phones, jewellery and even hand grenades. But how do you flush a motorbike or a pram? :-O
OK, I understand coins, phones, jewellery and even hand grenades. But how do you flush a motorbike or a pram? :-O
When you're cooking with motorbikes, it tends to accumulate at the bottom of the fryer or pan as a hot liquid which can be put down the drain, but re-solidifies once it hits the cold water in the sewer.
I imagine people open the sewer cover on the street and push stuff in.
Or dump them in creeks and open channels which may drain through combined sewer systems. It's common to have signs posted around storm drain systems telling people not to dump waste in there, which obviously means people do dump waste in there.
A plumber I know once told me he could tell the ethnicity of the family that lived in a home by the type and color of grease clogging the drain.
I wish they could somehow preserve it more perfectly. Could they encase the thing in a cube of acrylic? Maybe the heat of the liquid acrylic would damage it?
The fatberg should be preserved as a monument to the staggeringly wasteful nature of our current culture. Then keep it on exhibit even after we reach a sustainable future, to remind people what things were like before we started acting more responsibly towards our planet.
The fatberg should be preserved as a monument to the staggeringly wasteful nature of our current culture. Then keep it on exhibit even after we reach a sustainable future, to remind people what things were like before we started acting more responsibly towards our planet.
I like to think that in some small way, I helped make this piece of art :-)
This is truly disgusting. (Sorry.)
Pour it in an empty milk carton or whatever and throw it in the household trash. And pour a full kettle of boiling water down your kitchen sink drain once in a while, it'll prevent fat from collecting and it'll kill any nasty smells, too.
E: "Ninety three per cent of its complex structure was said to consist of the element “wet wipe”"
And don't flush wet wipes! Why do people still think this is OK?