Cronk: Long-lost beverage resurrected after 120 years(theguardian.com)
theguardian.com
Cronk: Long-lost beverage resurrected after 120 years
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/03/dr-cronk-drink-canada-brewery
31 comments
By a complete accident I'm in possession of 30ml of sassafras oil. I live in Vietnam and attempted to buy peppermint oil from lazada. Somehow, Google translate translated the product "sassafras oil" to "peppermint oil" and I didn't look closely enough at the tiny picture of leaves on the bottle. I was quite surprised when it arrived and after some research I found out it's illegal to sell in most countries. I was wondering what to do with it - maybe I'll make some Cronk.
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Ground sassafras leaf has been eaten for hundreds of years by people in Louisiana.
It's literally the file' in file gumbo.
Ground sassafras leaf has been eaten for hundreds of years by people in Louisiana.
It's literally the file' in file gumbo.
The leaves don't contain detectable levels of safrole. [0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo_fil%C3%A9#Health_concern...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbo_fil%C3%A9#Health_concern...
Essential oils naturally containing safrole (sassafras, sasparilla, brown camphor oil) are usually available with the safrole stripped.
I've had the pleasure of naturally brewed sassafras root and it's definitely a difference, albeit pretty subtle.
I've had the pleasure of naturally brewed sassafras root and it's definitely a difference, albeit pretty subtle.
[deleted]
It looks like both sassafras oil (Sassafras albidum) and safrole are prohibited from being added to foods in Canada: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/food-nutriti...
I was able to find another article (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/06/27/cheers-to-cro...) where Belding confirms that his modern Cronk will not contain safrole:
> “Sassafras is a precursor for narcotic manufacturing, and there’s an ingredient in it that is carcinogenic” he says, meaning cancer causing. He stresses that they’re tracking some down that won’t have that ingredient in it.
I was able to find another article (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/06/27/cheers-to-cro...) where Belding confirms that his modern Cronk will not contain safrole:
> “Sassafras is a precursor for narcotic manufacturing, and there’s an ingredient in it that is carcinogenic” he says, meaning cancer causing. He stresses that they’re tracking some down that won’t have that ingredient in it.
> safrole, is 1. a direct precursor of MDMA, and 2. has most of the same effects, though less powerfully.
I don't believe this (edit: point 2) is true.
As for its carcogenicity, that seemed to be 'discovered' just about the time that the US government wanted to clamp down on it's availability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity "Despite this, the effects in humans [of safrole] were estimated by the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory to be similar to risks posed by breathing indoor air or drinking municipally supplied water"
If you want an entertaining but most of all informative idea of how the US gov't gets its policy-based evidence, this https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-science-and-statistics-technic... is interesting.
If you want a shorter summary, look for "shit-storm" and read from there, of one scientist destroying another 'scientists' findings.
I don't believe this (edit: point 2) is true.
As for its carcogenicity, that seemed to be 'discovered' just about the time that the US government wanted to clamp down on it's availability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safrole#Toxicity "Despite this, the effects in humans [of safrole] were estimated by the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory to be similar to risks posed by breathing indoor air or drinking municipally supplied water"
If you want an entertaining but most of all informative idea of how the US gov't gets its policy-based evidence, this https://thedea.org/mdma-risks-science-and-statistics-technic... is interesting.
If you want a shorter summary, look for "shit-storm" and read from there, of one scientist destroying another 'scientists' findings.
I too am skeptical of the psychoactivity of plain safrole. It lacks an ethylamine, nay, any nitrogen, which is what makes virtually all analogs of dopamine and serotonin structurally active. You kinda need that N-C-C-Ar (aromatic: phenyl, indolyl, etc) moeity to work.
It's probably a misunderstanding by way of synedoche of sass(afrass oil) or safrole being used as the precursur.
Most likely "sass" or "safrole" is MDA.
It's probably a misunderstanding by way of synedoche of sass(afrass oil) or safrole being used as the precursur.
Most likely "sass" or "safrole" is MDA.
I don't think Safrole in isolate is psychoactive either. Shulgin has written extensively about the essential oils, and the closest paper to this particular topic I can recall is "The chemistry and psychopharmacology of nutmeg and of several related phenylisopropylamines."
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689...
Nutmeg happens to be primarily composed of Safrole, Myristicin and Elemicin, and is certainly psychoactive, but I doubt it's the Safrole.
On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)
The common synthesis nowadays is through PMK glycidate bought from China. Reflux with HCl will yield base PMK (aka MD-P2P) and one can proceed via the normal route from there.
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.689...
Nutmeg happens to be primarily composed of Safrole, Myristicin and Elemicin, and is certainly psychoactive, but I doubt it's the Safrole.
There are thus several possibilities by which one or more of the aromatic components might be implicated as psychotropic agents;
1. One of the compounds that is present only in very small amounts may have unusually high potency,
2. Elemicin may be a major contributor of activity, or
3. A combination of two or more of the aromatics present may be involved.
The three most abundant ones, myristicin, elemicin and safrole may be sufficient to account for the total activity.
On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)
The common synthesis nowadays is through PMK glycidate bought from China. Reflux with HCl will yield base PMK (aka MD-P2P) and one can proceed via the normal route from there.
I'm not sure whether safrole is psychoactive, but safrole oxide—noted in several sources as being a safrole metabolite, though never a major one—induces apoptosis in nerve cells (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17188719/). That probably feel like... something. Maybe good? But probably not the "recreational drug" kind of good. Maybe more the "smell of leaded car exhaust" kind of good.
(Given that you'd probably get safrole oxide by having safrole inside a cell while that cell is experiencing oxidative stress, one might infer that safrole is playing a role here similar to a caspase zymogen: "sensitizing" the cell to stress such that it will apoptose.)
> On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)
And meth isn't made from pseudoephedrine any more either. In both cases, that seems to have more to do with the fact that the government has made it hard to acquire the reagents, than that the new route is cheaper per se. (Especially for the small-batch synthesis that upstart gangs are fond of, where economies of scale don't begin to apply.)
(Given that you'd probably get safrole oxide by having safrole inside a cell while that cell is experiencing oxidative stress, one might infer that safrole is playing a role here similar to a caspase zymogen: "sensitizing" the cell to stress such that it will apoptose.)
> On another note, commercial MDMA isn't generally produced from Safrole/Isosafrole anymore. This is an idea you get by reading common, old synths on the internet and being an armchair enthusiast ;^)
And meth isn't made from pseudoephedrine any more either. In both cases, that seems to have more to do with the fact that the government has made it hard to acquire the reagents, than that the new route is cheaper per se. (Especially for the small-batch synthesis that upstart gangs are fond of, where economies of scale don't begin to apply.)
The recipe:
DR. CRONK'S SARSAPARILLA BEER.
Take 1 lb. of sasafras, 4 lbs of sarsaparilla, 2 lbs. hops, 1 lb. of camomile blows, 1 lb. of cinnamon, 5 lbs. of ginger, 1 pint of extract of sarsaparilla, boil them all together two hours; have ready steeped half a pound of green tea, which add, then strain into a vat or tub, and add ten galls. of molasses, and 100 galls of water. Stir in thoroughly 1 quart of yeast, and scent to suit your taste; let stand until fermented, then bottle for use.
Search google books for "Dr. Cronks sarsaparilla beer" and it's in "Hand Book of Practical Receipts, or Useful Hints in Every Day Life", by "An American Gentleman and a Lady" on p. 34. (via https://twitter.com/JNerissa/status/1275321511646126080 )
DR. CRONK'S SARSAPARILLA BEER.
Take 1 lb. of sasafras, 4 lbs of sarsaparilla, 2 lbs. hops, 1 lb. of camomile blows, 1 lb. of cinnamon, 5 lbs. of ginger, 1 pint of extract of sarsaparilla, boil them all together two hours; have ready steeped half a pound of green tea, which add, then strain into a vat or tub, and add ten galls. of molasses, and 100 galls of water. Stir in thoroughly 1 quart of yeast, and scent to suit your taste; let stand until fermented, then bottle for use.
Search google books for "Dr. Cronks sarsaparilla beer" and it's in "Hand Book of Practical Receipts, or Useful Hints in Every Day Life", by "An American Gentleman and a Lady" on p. 34. (via https://twitter.com/JNerissa/status/1275321511646126080 )
That’s a potentially dangerous recipe. Sassafras is currently banned for commercial food production in the US, as it’s a possible carcinogen. It would be worth doing additional research and weighing the risks before making such a drink.
That said, plenty of other comments point out that the timing of its indication as a carcinogen was a bit too convenient, and there are likely other factors at play. As always, do your research before actually following such a recipe.
One HN reader pointed out that the new beer won’t contain sassafras: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730581
That said, plenty of other comments point out that the timing of its indication as a carcinogen was a bit too convenient, and there are likely other factors at play. As always, do your research before actually following such a recipe.
One HN reader pointed out that the new beer won’t contain sassafras: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730581
If tobacco products are still legal, then banning other carcinogenic products seems questionable at best.
Even if we can't remove one, preventing adding another seems like a good idea.
I can appreciate that, but that's not what I meant at all. I was referring to the questionable nature that certain things are allowed or not in the first place. If we're banning things solely on them being carcinogenic, then we shouldn't let people go outside since sunlight can cause cancer.
Many bottled beverages today are consumed largely because marketing convinces people they want yellow food coloring and brominated vegetable oil (Mountain Dew) as a source for sugar and caffeine. Other modern drinks are science-inspired products with b-vitamins and amino acids in addition to the old standby, caffeine. These provide the functional boost the old herbal beverages provided.
Before caffeine, amino acids, b-vitamins, et cetra, could be synthesized, humans got their performance-enhancing substances from plants: Kola, coffee, tea, coca leaf, etc.
I noticed this list of ingredients from the fine submission:
> The recipe calls for sassafras, sarsaparilla, hops, chamomile, cinnamon, ginger, green tea and molasses, said Belding. “I think it’s going to taste like a spicy root beer. [...]"
Wikipedia suggests most of these ingredients have properties beyond flavor:
Sassafras: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras#Traditional_medicina...
Sarsaparilla: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilax_aristolochiifolia#Medic...
Chamomile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matricaria_chamomilla#Use_in_h...
Green tea (as a source of theanine & caffeine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tea#Theanine...
Cinnamon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon#Health-related_resear...
Ginger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger#Research
My comment on a previous submission on herbal beverages: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22958420
Before caffeine, amino acids, b-vitamins, et cetra, could be synthesized, humans got their performance-enhancing substances from plants: Kola, coffee, tea, coca leaf, etc.
I noticed this list of ingredients from the fine submission:
> The recipe calls for sassafras, sarsaparilla, hops, chamomile, cinnamon, ginger, green tea and molasses, said Belding. “I think it’s going to taste like a spicy root beer. [...]"
Wikipedia suggests most of these ingredients have properties beyond flavor:
Sassafras: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassafras#Traditional_medicina...
Sarsaparilla: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smilax_aristolochiifolia#Medic...
Chamomile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matricaria_chamomilla#Use_in_h...
Green tea (as a source of theanine & caffeine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tea#Theanine...
Cinnamon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinnamon#Health-related_resear...
Ginger: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginger#Research
My comment on a previous submission on herbal beverages: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22958420
I've noticed that Mountain Dew no longer lists brominated vegetable oil on the list of ingredients.
This is nice to see.
This also makes me wish that sarsaparilla and birch beer were more prevalent compared to other soft drinks you can find in the US. Living near Amish and Mennonite communities, I used to always have an abundance of flavorful drinks and snacks.
Having also lived in the South and in California, there's variety but I feel not as much. It feels as if the defaults are Coke or Fanta (whether from the US or imported).
This also makes me wish that sarsaparilla and birch beer were more prevalent compared to other soft drinks you can find in the US. Living near Amish and Mennonite communities, I used to always have an abundance of flavorful drinks and snacks.
Having also lived in the South and in California, there's variety but I feel not as much. It feels as if the defaults are Coke or Fanta (whether from the US or imported).
Birch beer is a lovely beverage, had it on a trip through the mid-atlantic states during college.
I don’t remember ever seeing it at retail here in the south, but it seems like root beer and generally the heavy herbal type flavors have fallen out of fashion. I’m still a fan of them though.
I don’t remember ever seeing it at retail here in the south, but it seems like root beer and generally the heavy herbal type flavors have fallen out of fashion. I’m still a fan of them though.
I would also love to see kvass sold in the US in more general retail. I bet Americans would love it! It tastes like sweet dark beer (at least to me).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvass
Where's the "Buy now" link?
I found the site for the brewery that's making it, and they don't have any links to buy it yet, sadly. They'd make a killing if they figured out a way to ship it to people.
(obligatory) It's your birthday?!
Gronk should make cronk
Original-recipe "root beers" and "sarsaparillas" used to contain sassafras oil; and it was the sassafras oil that lent them a lot of their unique flavor (and "uplifting quality" as a patent medicine, in an era when cocaine was a thing you'd find in a soda.)
The modern interpretations of both drinks, though—even from indie brewers going for authenticity—always exclude the sassafras oil. Much to the detriment of the flavor-profile of the drink: they're like decaf coffee with no replacement bitterant!
I always assumed that sassafras oil had just become a controlled substance in most countries. But maybe it was just the US where it's controlled, and nobody had been bothering to try to brew "authentic original-recipe root beer/sarsaparilla" anywhere else until now? (It would make sense, seeing as those drinks weren't really a thing anywhere other than North America, and so it's only really the US and Canada where people would show much interest.)
Good on this brewer for having enough faith in the Canadian indie beer market to brew something that very likely can't be exported to the US. Maybe it'll draw some US tourists to come north to try it, though!