Ask HN: What to do post FI(hypothetically)?
16 comments
I think about this often myself, since it's a real possibility I'll end up with a windfall eventually. I'm not sure how to provide you with suggestions specific to your interests and situation, but I can share my personal conclusions, at risk of this being a bit of a weird comment.
On the event of financial independence, I'll focus on building a larger coliving community of people who I trust and share similar interests and values to me. I already practice this on a small scale, by splitting a large house with four longtime friends. It has been great for my mental health and social life, as well as professional life, to live with other low-drama young professionals. But long term as we grow older I think there will be an expectation for more room, likely for families, and I think this is a problem that more money can help fix. Anyway, to the degree that I and my housemates have our shared values and resources, it already has enabled me to pursue pro-social goals without particular need for an employer to empower me. My personal sense of impact has been confined to just our broad social group, so maybe if you're concerned about having impact at the societal level, this wouldn't be satisfying to you (it is to me). But, (and sorry if this all sounds vague), I have found that the impact I've been able to have on our broader social group by providing a focal point for both fun and productive activities is the most accessible way I've been able to have any measurable impact on society. I don't regret thinking small.
On the event of financial independence, I'll focus on building a larger coliving community of people who I trust and share similar interests and values to me. I already practice this on a small scale, by splitting a large house with four longtime friends. It has been great for my mental health and social life, as well as professional life, to live with other low-drama young professionals. But long term as we grow older I think there will be an expectation for more room, likely for families, and I think this is a problem that more money can help fix. Anyway, to the degree that I and my housemates have our shared values and resources, it already has enabled me to pursue pro-social goals without particular need for an employer to empower me. My personal sense of impact has been confined to just our broad social group, so maybe if you're concerned about having impact at the societal level, this wouldn't be satisfying to you (it is to me). But, (and sorry if this all sounds vague), I have found that the impact I've been able to have on our broader social group by providing a focal point for both fun and productive activities is the most accessible way I've been able to have any measurable impact on society. I don't regret thinking small.
Thanks for that response, not weird at all. In fact the more I read, I understand what values feel right to me and am able to find groups / communities with the same values somewhere. This has in fact been one of my thoughts as well, perhaps with more time I should be open to explore living in a small community with shared values as mine.
> I don't regret thinking small.
Makes sense to me.
> I don't regret thinking small.
Makes sense to me.
I've thought about this and since I'm not that attracted to any of the options, I'm not that interested in retiring early. It's possible to have a good job that doesn't overwork you and some spare time outside of that for time with your family and for hobbies - financial independence isn't a prerequisite. And as long as that's the case, I'm not interesting in retirement at any age. Maybe my health will deteriorate to the point where I can't work but then none of the options look that appealing. Or maybe I'll change my mind as I get older. But until then I'm FWRN (financially whatever, retire never). Sure, I'll still save and invest and having more money is great, I just don't see financial independence as some milestone that will change anything for me and that's why I don't pursue it aggressively.
There was a recent post here that made a lot of sense to me - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28070769
I guess the more positive way to express this is - what's stopping you from doing any of these things now and why do you need to wait until FI? Retirement seems like a very roundabout way to achieve the goal of... going for a run and reading SICP.
There was a recent post here that made a lot of sense to me - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28070769
I guess the more positive way to express this is - what's stopping you from doing any of these things now and why do you need to wait until FI? Retirement seems like a very roundabout way to achieve the goal of... going for a run and reading SICP.
The point of FI is to eliminate an entire class of concerns.
Family member gets disabled? You get disabled? Spouse wants to change cities? You get burned out? You find an exciting (but less paying) opportunity? You can pursue these without asking permission.
You don't need to stop working, of course, but you could. Being in a position where you can't sucks.
Family member gets disabled? You get disabled? Spouse wants to change cities? You get burned out? You find an exciting (but less paying) opportunity? You can pursue these without asking permission.
You don't need to stop working, of course, but you could. Being in a position where you can't sucks.
I think in this case it's important to clarify what we mean by financial independence. Being able to address emergencies and setbacks is a very different level of wealth than having accumulated enough that you can live only on the interest. I'm not arguing against the former obviously. I'm saying that the latter looks like an arbitrary and somewhat meaningless goal to me personally.
Also, the setbacks that you might experience vary a lot. You gave an example of suddenly becoming disabled - in that case you might find that all of the formulas that you've used to compute that you've reached FI don't work anymore because your expenses have increased dramatically. So you were financially independent before but now suddenly you aren't anymore? Then maybe you were never financially independent in the first place. (There was a great story about this on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26543527)
That's another problem with the whole FI(RE) movement - it pretends to have quantified something that can't be quantified by just making a lot of assumptions about your future needs and wants, the state of the world, the stock market, inflation etc. And when those assumptions are questioned, the defending argument boils down to "having more money is better". Which of course I can't disagree with. Just don't pretend that you've achieved something that you haven't by claiming to be financially independent.
Also, the setbacks that you might experience vary a lot. You gave an example of suddenly becoming disabled - in that case you might find that all of the formulas that you've used to compute that you've reached FI don't work anymore because your expenses have increased dramatically. So you were financially independent before but now suddenly you aren't anymore? Then maybe you were never financially independent in the first place. (There was a great story about this on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26543527)
That's another problem with the whole FI(RE) movement - it pretends to have quantified something that can't be quantified by just making a lot of assumptions about your future needs and wants, the state of the world, the stock market, inflation etc. And when those assumptions are questioned, the defending argument boils down to "having more money is better". Which of course I can't disagree with. Just don't pretend that you've achieved something that you haven't by claiming to be financially independent.
Sure, it depends on your threat model. Typically FI means living expenses < (assets * withdrawal rate). If being disabled is in your threat model, include long-term care insurance in your living expenses. Note that you aren't withdrawing just the interest, assets appreciate and you can withdraw from that ever-growing principal.
Psychologically, some prefer to not have a leaky boat, than to be in a boat and constantly expected to bail water. ("Oh, I can rest for a bit, then I better get back to bailing!").
Yes, you can hit a rock, or a pirate, but the goal is the expected case (95%) being "floating, not sinking".
Psychologically, some prefer to not have a leaky boat, than to be in a boat and constantly expected to bail water. ("Oh, I can rest for a bit, then I better get back to bailing!").
Yes, you can hit a rock, or a pirate, but the goal is the expected case (95%) being "floating, not sinking".
I wouldn't call myself waiting until FI. I do spend a disciplined amount of time on a daily basis with things that I've mentioned I love doing. But as I become more experienced, the responsiblities of job demand a lot of attention + time, that it's hard to mentally switch off / say no to extra work. Basically this leads to long times before I complete a book / course.
But broadly about the "stuff I wish I could do", I think it would require a lot of personal exploration / life experience / reading and much more to know what I want to do and how I can do(if I could). This is defintely not possible with a full time job(same reasons as above) IMO.
But broadly about the "stuff I wish I could do", I think it would require a lot of personal exploration / life experience / reading and much more to know what I want to do and how I can do(if I could). This is defintely not possible with a full time job(same reasons as above) IMO.
I dedicated myself to garden work. Add some science to it, you have your lifelong hobby.
Hydroponics is also very fun. While you are financially independent, why not go fully self-sufficient?
Hydroponics is also very fun. While you are financially independent, why not go fully self-sufficient?
By self-sufficient do you mean learning life skills to become that?
I thought it was clear, "I am self-sufficient" means I make my own stuff and don't depend on others. Not sure if it means something else to others though.
Watch "Self Sufficient Me" on YouTube. Amazing channel doing exactly what I mean.
Watch "Self Sufficient Me" on YouTube. Amazing channel doing exactly what I mean.
IMO if you’re capable you should start your own business that adheres to the values you mentioned.
If you’re FI might as well craft the future you want instead of hoarding the potential capital. If you hate mega corps then start a company and put people from minority background on your leadership roster. Focus your resources towards building something useful. Idk I feel like waiting for FI or the “system” to change is naive.
My whole career as a software engineer and entrepreneur has been stitching together multiple systems to work together in harmony. It’s much easier to write layers on top of the complexity for new people, or to leverage the strengths and account for the weaknesses of certain systems to make them work well together.
I’m sure this can apply to changing the society. It’s cheap to say just burn it down and start over, or that the system sucks and boohoo. It’s hard to actually do the work of making a difference now today so society will be better off in x decades.
Also life is literally a competition for survival. It doesn’t mean we should be awful to each other but to try and remove competition wholesale is also a dead end IMO.
Good luck!
If you’re FI might as well craft the future you want instead of hoarding the potential capital. If you hate mega corps then start a company and put people from minority background on your leadership roster. Focus your resources towards building something useful. Idk I feel like waiting for FI or the “system” to change is naive.
My whole career as a software engineer and entrepreneur has been stitching together multiple systems to work together in harmony. It’s much easier to write layers on top of the complexity for new people, or to leverage the strengths and account for the weaknesses of certain systems to make them work well together.
I’m sure this can apply to changing the society. It’s cheap to say just burn it down and start over, or that the system sucks and boohoo. It’s hard to actually do the work of making a difference now today so society will be better off in x decades.
Also life is literally a competition for survival. It doesn’t mean we should be awful to each other but to try and remove competition wholesale is also a dead end IMO.
Good luck!
Given your interests, consider building public good dApps or defi projects that leverage the latest in crypto tech like so-SNARKs and quadratic funding. Powerful emerging tech that doesn’t yet have much economic incentive for companies to adopt seems like it could be fun and potentially broadly useful.
Relevant podcast episode with Vitalik: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/i...
Relevant podcast episode with Vitalik: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/i...
I think for that last part, you could go into education.
I've thought about the homeless part. Why is it so difficult to eradicate? There's enough homes for everyone, and we can build a lot more. I know the state should do it, but is it that expensive to build some sort of permanent refuge where people can get support, and also housing for as long as they like?
I've thought about the homeless part. Why is it so difficult to eradicate? There's enough homes for everyone, and we can build a lot more. I know the state should do it, but is it that expensive to build some sort of permanent refuge where people can get support, and also housing for as long as they like?
explore yourself, why you believe what you believe? is that belief correct? how does your mind works? is it the same for others? what is conditioned response? what is conscious response? is there even a conscious response?
I'd suggest not to be a contrarian, despite it is quite a captivating meme.
You do have goals; try to follow them swimming with the (general) people, and with their social/economic systems, rather than against.
You do have goals; try to follow them swimming with the (general) people, and with their social/economic systems, rather than against.
I am not wanting to be a contrarian just for the heck of it. Some of the goals are hard to live by while having a fulltime job that demands attention-span fully and is only asking for more.
Could you explain your point a bit more though?
Could you explain your point a bit more though?
For context, I love
* Writing code. I intend to work on SICP, and some continuous, discrete math, Probability related books when I get time. I have respect for ASF, so perhaps I might start to look deeper on that lines. I don't worry about developing useful software, I genuinely like writing code for the sake of it, as long as it's interesting
* Reading. Non fiction + fiction. Love real life based short stories, haven't shied away from Russian classics (didn't enjoy all of them). Intend to complete GEB someday!
* Badminton + running. Have done quite a few 10k runs
I hate / despise
* MegaCorps
* Enterprise + corporate software development. Have least amount of respect towards managerial folks in particular.
Stuff I wish I could do
* Working towards a more equitable society that has better safety nets around a home to stay and healthcare. Something that could encourage empathy and alleviate rat-race / cutthroat competition
I would like to get your ideas / suggestions / relevant literature that could help get perspective. If you've been on a similar place before please share your journey too. Thanks!