Reuters photographer was killed after being left behind in retreat(reuters.com)
reuters.com
Reuters photographer was killed after being left behind in retreat
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/afghanistan-conflict-reuters-siddiqui/
72 comments
> Where are the similar photos of the body of the elderly stacked in NJ/NY?
There were plenty of photos and videos of people wheeling bodies into giant big rigs in NYC. Sometimes using a fork lift. CNN even has articles as recent as May 2021 talking about how those trucks are still full of dead bodies.
This is all just a search away. So I don't know where you got the idea that this stuff is being hidden due to political ideology.
There were plenty of photos and videos of people wheeling bodies into giant big rigs in NYC. Sometimes using a fork lift. CNN even has articles as recent as May 2021 talking about how those trucks are still full of dead bodies.
This is all just a search away. So I don't know where you got the idea that this stuff is being hidden due to political ideology.
Did you miss the point?
We are talking about 2 events during the pandemic.
bodies in big rigs in NYC -- they were shown to highlight the need for social distancing, masking, induce a sense of panic etc among the public - something that the media and party was game to.
the bodies in elderly homes - a political decision (there were alternatives to sending infected seniors back into these homes), and the media hid it, ostensibly to protect their masters.
That is what I was referring to?
I am wondering if you are even aware of these happening? I would say there was almost a blackout of these news during that time in the mainstream media.
We are talking about 2 events during the pandemic.
bodies in big rigs in NYC -- they were shown to highlight the need for social distancing, masking, induce a sense of panic etc among the public - something that the media and party was game to.
the bodies in elderly homes - a political decision (there were alternatives to sending infected seniors back into these homes), and the media hid it, ostensibly to protect their masters.
That is what I was referring to?
I am wondering if you are even aware of these happening? I would say there was almost a blackout of these news during that time in the mainstream media.
"bodies in big rigs in NYC -- they were shown to highlight the need for social distancing, masking, induce a sense of panic etc among the public - something that the media and party was game to."
So you recognize that this was intended to help save further lives but you're unhappy about it?
"the bodies in elderly homes - a political decision (there were alternatives to sending infected seniors back into these homes), and the media hid it, ostensibly to protect their masters."
Who are these masters of the media that were somehow protecting themselves by not covering bodies in elderly homes? Are they the owners of the elderly homes who don't want to get sued into oblivion?
So you recognize that this was intended to help save further lives but you're unhappy about it?
"the bodies in elderly homes - a political decision (there were alternatives to sending infected seniors back into these homes), and the media hid it, ostensibly to protect their masters."
Who are these masters of the media that were somehow protecting themselves by not covering bodies in elderly homes? Are they the owners of the elderly homes who don't want to get sued into oblivion?
> this was intended to help save further lives but you're unhappy about it?
this was never my point, i just said it is a different event from the one I described.
> Who are these masters of the media
Is'nt it obvious that the mainstream media shill for the Democratic party? They were protecting the leaders of NY, NJ, PA which implemented these policies, and continued these murders even after a large number of deaths were reported.
this was never my point, i just said it is a different event from the one I described.
> Who are these masters of the media
Is'nt it obvious that the mainstream media shill for the Democratic party? They were protecting the leaders of NY, NJ, PA which implemented these policies, and continued these murders even after a large number of deaths were reported.
> the bodies in elderly homes
There weren't literal piles of bodies there, only metaphorical ones, which are difficult to photograph even if you are able to gain access to the site.
“Elderly homes” were a source of bodies, not an accumulation point (the big rigs were an accumulation point of bodies, including the ones coming from elderly homes.)
There weren't literal piles of bodies there, only metaphorical ones, which are difficult to photograph even if you are able to gain access to the site.
“Elderly homes” were a source of bodies, not an accumulation point (the big rigs were an accumulation point of bodies, including the ones coming from elderly homes.)
in that particular case, it was shockingly an (illegal) accumulation point of bodies.
and regarding photos and ability to take them, are'nt you being pedantic? the overall story is journalism... the media chose to bury this incident, gave (and continues to give) a free pass to all who were involved.
And there is a bigger difference:
In both the case where this journalist was killed and in the elderly being killed, mistakes were made, but the intent is important.
One is because some protocols were not followed in the heat of action, the other is because of political considerations, for the state to not use the resources provided by the feds, and hiding this news till later.
Before the bunch of people respond, let us remember our political bias since we all have one, and despite that, try to do the best we can, giving the benefit of doubt.
Note that this policy of shifting elders back to homes was not stopped for months, though makeshift facilities were available, no data was made available, no questions asked.
the only issues that are raised are those the media takes an interest in. Hence my original post.
and regarding photos and ability to take them, are'nt you being pedantic? the overall story is journalism... the media chose to bury this incident, gave (and continues to give) a free pass to all who were involved.
And there is a bigger difference:
In both the case where this journalist was killed and in the elderly being killed, mistakes were made, but the intent is important.
One is because some protocols were not followed in the heat of action, the other is because of political considerations, for the state to not use the resources provided by the feds, and hiding this news till later.
Before the bunch of people respond, let us remember our political bias since we all have one, and despite that, try to do the best we can, giving the benefit of doubt.
Note that this policy of shifting elders back to homes was not stopped for months, though makeshift facilities were available, no data was made available, no questions asked.
the only issues that are raised are those the media takes an interest in. Hence my original post.
Do you think they actually physically piled up corpses in nursing homes? Do you think a nursing home would allow a photographer inside to take pictures of random individual dead bodies?
Doesn't it seem likely that the piles of bodies outside in refrigerated trucks were way more photographable, and like the nursing home bodies were not all in one place, or were too identifiable as individuals?
I'm sure there are photos of unidentifiable bodies being wheeled out of nursing homes. Here's one: https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/...
Doesn't it seem likely that the piles of bodies outside in refrigerated trucks were way more photographable, and like the nursing home bodies were not all in one place, or were too identifiable as individuals?
I'm sure there are photos of unidentifiable bodies being wheeled out of nursing homes. Here's one: https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/...
> Do you think they actually physically piled up corpses in nursing homes?
It's not my opinion; in one case in Northern NJ, they actually piled them up in some storage room (unrefridgerated of course) till one of the workers revealed it. They tried to get away with it.
> Do you think a nursing home would allow a photographer inside to take pictures of random individual dead bodies?
Do you think in each of these situations we are talking, these photo journalists (or anyone else) are invited to do these investigations? What I started off is even after the news came out of these homes, the media chose to hide it.
You seem to give the media the benefit of doubt, I however accuse them of malice, only because of all the opportunities they had to cover this issue (for months on end). We can chose to disagree ( it boils down to our political biases actually ).
Even after this incident being exposed, the leaders in these states did not make changes to their policies for months on end. It is so surprising to me why there was no outcry about this.
Its interesting that you linked a aarp report about this, and not one from the media.
It's not my opinion; in one case in Northern NJ, they actually piled them up in some storage room (unrefridgerated of course) till one of the workers revealed it. They tried to get away with it.
> Do you think a nursing home would allow a photographer inside to take pictures of random individual dead bodies?
Do you think in each of these situations we are talking, these photo journalists (or anyone else) are invited to do these investigations? What I started off is even after the news came out of these homes, the media chose to hide it.
You seem to give the media the benefit of doubt, I however accuse them of malice, only because of all the opportunities they had to cover this issue (for months on end). We can chose to disagree ( it boils down to our political biases actually ).
Even after this incident being exposed, the leaders in these states did not make changes to their policies for months on end. It is so surprising to me why there was no outcry about this.
Its interesting that you linked a aarp report about this, and not one from the media.
>You seem to give the media the benefit of doubt, I however accuse them of malice, only because of all the opportunities they had to cover this issue (for months on end).
To add to this, remember that Cuomo was given an award for his handling of the pandemic by the media. I know it has been taken away, but just last year, the media decided to look past his nursing home fiasco and give him an award.
To add to this, remember that Cuomo was given an award for his handling of the pandemic by the media. I know it has been taken away, but just last year, the media decided to look past his nursing home fiasco and give him an award.
> To add to this, remember that Cuomo was given an award for his handling of the pandemic by the media
The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences is not the same thing as the media in general (of which TV is a subset), and especially not the news media particularly (of which TV is an overlapping set).
The International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences is not the same thing as the media in general (of which TV is a subset), and especially not the news media particularly (of which TV is an overlapping set).
So this news about bodies in elderly homes was carried by the non-mainstream media?
of course, because they are against the status quo of the establishment.
Journalism is not much about reporting these days, even the AP has started editorializing these days.
Journalism is not much about reporting these days, even the AP has started editorializing these days.
codetrotter(1)
> The security group [in Reuters] approved the embed plan. “We were talking about the Afghan Special Forces, the elite,” said Rogers [Reuters global pictures editor]. “They had all the hospitals at their disposal, all the equipment needed to evacuate, including air support.” Siddiqui would join their headquarters near Kandahar.
On display here are the deep miscalculation and disbelief over it. It's a pattern that has unfortunately played out innumerable times in the last 20 years as organizations outside of Afghanistan tried to figure the place out and failed miserably.
On display here are the deep miscalculation and disbelief over it. It's a pattern that has unfortunately played out innumerable times in the last 20 years as organizations outside of Afghanistan tried to figure the place out and failed miserably.
Even if they knowingly left him behind, sometimes you have to make hard choices in war.
Sacrificing a unit so that no man is left behind is a movie trope, not reality.
Sacrificing a unit so that no man is left behind is a movie trope, not reality.
The details in the article don't support the headline.
>On Tuesday, July 13, Siddiqui joined a successful mission to rescue a policeman who was surrounded by insurgents
>Three days later, on July 16, Siddiqui and two Afghan commandos were killed
>In the weeks that followed, the Taliban conquered city after city.
>On Tuesday, July 13, Siddiqui joined a successful mission to rescue a policeman who was surrounded by insurgents
>Three days later, on July 16, Siddiqui and two Afghan commandos were killed
>In the weeks that followed, the Taliban conquered city after city.
That's because the article is intended to lay blame at the US exit of Afghanistan and imply that the taliban is executing fighters. In reality, media embedded with soldiers in active combat occasionally die which is a tragedy but less useful for propaganda (hence the title).
I don’t know how you can think that. The July 16 mission was a separate mission. The article goes into detail about that mission and about how he was killed after being left behind when the soldiers retreated during the July 16 mission.
> Major-General Haibatullah Alizai, who was the commander of Afghanistan’s Special Operations Corps when it hosted Siddiqui in Kandahar, told Reuters it was evident now that, in fierce fighting, his soldiers withdrew from Spin Boldak and left behind Siddiqui and two commandos accompanying him, mistakenly thinking they had joined the retreating convoy. His account was corroborated by four soldiers who say they witnessed the attack.
The article uses the word abandoned, but it's not clear based on this account that he and the two soldiers with him were. Abandonment would imply knowingly leaving them behind. This could definitely be a fog of war situation in which they were expected to have moved and did not. No one thinks straight getting shot at unless they are an experienced professional.
The article uses the word abandoned, but it's not clear based on this account that he and the two soldiers with him were. Abandonment would imply knowingly leaving them behind. This could definitely be a fog of war situation in which they were expected to have moved and did not. No one thinks straight getting shot at unless they are an experienced professional.
> “If we don’t go, who will?”
I just want to take a moment to honor the courage and sentiments of the man behind these words. RIP, may your family be ever proud.
They echo MLK's Ive been to the mountain top [1]
> That's the question before you tonight. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to my job. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers what will happen to all of the hours that I usually spend in my office every day and every week as a pastor?" The question is not, "If I stop to help this man in need, what will happen to me?" The question is, "If I do not stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to them?" That's the question.
or (attributed) Dietrich Bonhoeffer [2]
> First they came for the Communists,... there was no one left
May we soberly continue to consider these thoughts as we approach world affairs.
[1]: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemou...
[2]: http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Commun...
I just want to take a moment to honor the courage and sentiments of the man behind these words. RIP, may your family be ever proud.
They echo MLK's Ive been to the mountain top [1]
> That's the question before you tonight. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to my job. Not, "If I stop to help the sanitation workers what will happen to all of the hours that I usually spend in my office every day and every week as a pastor?" The question is not, "If I stop to help this man in need, what will happen to me?" The question is, "If I do not stop to help the sanitation workers, what will happen to them?" That's the question.
or (attributed) Dietrich Bonhoeffer [2]
> First they came for the Communists,... there was no one left
May we soberly continue to consider these thoughts as we approach world affairs.
[1]: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkivebeentothemou...
[2]: http://www.knowyourquotes.com/First-They-Came-For-The-Commun...
[deleted]
Fascinating and very sad. Photojournalists like Danish Siddiqui are incredibly brave.
nanis(1)
While this situation in Afghanistan was fraught with danger from the start, his reporting in the Delhi riots and UP (a state in India)'s handling of Covid really changed the dynamics of the public intercourse, and also the urgency of the government. He undertook it at personal cost as a muslim.
In this way, these photographs were as impactful as the napalm girl photo in My Lai, Vietnam.
We like to think of our country as having a free press, but we have one that is completely suborned to a political ideology, etc? Where are the similar photos of the body of the elderly stacked in NJ/NY? Is there a similar level of threat to lives of these reporters?
The lack of a properly functioning 4th estate does not bode well for our country.