Firefox for Android is a mess, and something needs to change(blog.nori.moe)
blog.nori.moe
Firefox for Android is a mess, and something needs to change
https://blog.nori.moe/firefox-for-android-is-a-mess/
110 comments
I have two complaints for Firefox Mobile (Android.
1. `about:config` is disabled on Stable branch, if you want to access it you need to use the Beta branch. Why is that the case? You don't see the same arbitrary limitation on desktop.
2. It seems to have issue loading a page randomly from time to time, and even trying to reload or open a different URL doesn't work, kinda like as if the tab itself crashed and became unresponsive. I haven't found a cause yet, and I don't know if I'm the only one.
1. `about:config` is disabled on Stable branch, if you want to access it you need to use the Beta branch. Why is that the case? You don't see the same arbitrary limitation on desktop.
2. It seems to have issue loading a page randomly from time to time, and even trying to reload or open a different URL doesn't work, kinda like as if the tab itself crashed and became unresponsive. I haven't found a cause yet, and I don't know if I'm the only one.
The lack of about:config bugs me as well. I believe this lockout coincided with the introduction of Mobile Friendly Add-Ons.
The pages not loading is something that started with-in the last year and it seems to be getting worse. I open a lot of things in new tabs and at least 10% of the time it fails.
The pages not loading is something that started with-in the last year and it seems to be getting worse. I open a lot of things in new tabs and at least 10% of the time it fails.
Agreed about point 1 -- it seems silly to disable "advanced" features on the Stable distribution of the browser.
Of course, clearly someone at Mozilla thinks this is a good idea because they do the same damn thing on desktop -- you can't disable add-on certificate checks on Stable, but you can on the Beta/Nightly/Developer Edition branches. We all found out the hard way a couple of years ago when all the FireFox add-ons stopped working just because someone forget to renew a certificate.
Of course, clearly someone at Mozilla thinks this is a good idea because they do the same damn thing on desktop -- you can't disable add-on certificate checks on Stable, but you can on the Beta/Nightly/Developer Edition branches. We all found out the hard way a couple of years ago when all the FireFox add-ons stopped working just because someone forget to renew a certificate.
Just to add another data point, I also experienced the second issue when trying to navigate between links with Fenix on many different occasions, including the period I was writing this post. However, I chose not to mention it because I also wasn't able to reliably reproduce it.
I used to experience this issue when I had manually configured my DNS over HTTPS (DoH) settings on Firefox for Android in about:config, and had set network.trr.mode to 3 (force DoH). Changing it to 2 (prefer DoH, use normal DNS as fallback) fixed the issue for me.
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver#DNS-over...
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Trusted_Recursive_Resolver#DNS-over...
I'll push back a little bit on this.
To preface, I have also been at least reasonably happy with Fenix on Android, although I am frustrated that the add-ons are still limited. I don't feel like I have a lot of friction, the UI works well enough for what I need it to do, and I have pretty much no desire to switch to another browser. And I regularly get annoyed at the level of scrutiny and amount of bad-natured criticism that Mozilla gets. I think it's part human nature, part meme, but I see people throw complaints at Firefox with a level of vigor that they can't seem to muster for browsers that are clearly far, far worse. And I've seen those same people ignore some of the legitimately fantastic stuff that Mozilla has been doing, some of it inside of Firefox.
All that being said, I didn't get any of those bad feelings from this article. The criticisms seemed fair, and it felt to me that the author was speaking out of genuine concern and desire for Fenix to be better. I didn't feel like the author was going out of their way to complain.
More importantly, as someone who is generally a lot more bullish on Mozilla and Firefox than other people on HN, and as someone who honestly still trusts Mozilla quite a bit, the complaints about closed designs and lack of community involvement in some parts of the browser ring true to me and I empathize. I trust Mozilla a lot, but I do really wish that they didn't make these kinds of design decisions that came so far out of left field with so little community input. They could do better here, and it is a worrying trend.
It is weird for a browser to have this many tab switcher redesigns, and to have so many of them received so negatively.
I do recommend people use Firefox on Android. I think the average experience is going to be better than the author describes, particularly if users aren't on nightly. And having support for Ublock Origin is a killer feature, and not just for privacy. The mobile web is borderline unusable for me without a good adblocker.
But... a lot of the criticism here is valid, and I hope that people at Mozilla look at it, and in the best case scenario, I hope maybe this kind of criticism leads to more open, thoughtful design where community input and involvement happens earlier in the design process.
To preface, I have also been at least reasonably happy with Fenix on Android, although I am frustrated that the add-ons are still limited. I don't feel like I have a lot of friction, the UI works well enough for what I need it to do, and I have pretty much no desire to switch to another browser. And I regularly get annoyed at the level of scrutiny and amount of bad-natured criticism that Mozilla gets. I think it's part human nature, part meme, but I see people throw complaints at Firefox with a level of vigor that they can't seem to muster for browsers that are clearly far, far worse. And I've seen those same people ignore some of the legitimately fantastic stuff that Mozilla has been doing, some of it inside of Firefox.
All that being said, I didn't get any of those bad feelings from this article. The criticisms seemed fair, and it felt to me that the author was speaking out of genuine concern and desire for Fenix to be better. I didn't feel like the author was going out of their way to complain.
More importantly, as someone who is generally a lot more bullish on Mozilla and Firefox than other people on HN, and as someone who honestly still trusts Mozilla quite a bit, the complaints about closed designs and lack of community involvement in some parts of the browser ring true to me and I empathize. I trust Mozilla a lot, but I do really wish that they didn't make these kinds of design decisions that came so far out of left field with so little community input. They could do better here, and it is a worrying trend.
It is weird for a browser to have this many tab switcher redesigns, and to have so many of them received so negatively.
I do recommend people use Firefox on Android. I think the average experience is going to be better than the author describes, particularly if users aren't on nightly. And having support for Ublock Origin is a killer feature, and not just for privacy. The mobile web is borderline unusable for me without a good adblocker.
But... a lot of the criticism here is valid, and I hope that people at Mozilla look at it, and in the best case scenario, I hope maybe this kind of criticism leads to more open, thoughtful design where community input and involvement happens earlier in the design process.
Agreed. I use FF on my Android devices because it's the best browser by a huge margin (uBlock Origin and AMP redirect alone guarantee that; not being made by Google is icing on the cake).
However, FireFox mobile could always be better. I really hope that Mozilla keeps listening to the users to figure out how to make the browsers better, especially when they have so many engineers that they seem to constantly shuffle the UI around just to give them work to do. There's plenty of actual improvements to make, and more options to give users with different preferences, and that should be where Mozilla spends engineer time with such a mature product. Instead of rewriting the browser every couple of years because the previous one was a mess.
However, FireFox mobile could always be better. I really hope that Mozilla keeps listening to the users to figure out how to make the browsers better, especially when they have so many engineers that they seem to constantly shuffle the UI around just to give them work to do. There's plenty of actual improvements to make, and more options to give users with different preferences, and that should be where Mozilla spends engineer time with such a mature product. Instead of rewriting the browser every couple of years because the previous one was a mess.
That's a bit harsh. Every point they raised is valid: the UX changes have been weird and inconsistent, the lack of history searching is frustrating etc
I still use ff, I certainly won't be using Chrome as I appreciate my add-ons too much.
I still use ff, I certainly won't be using Chrome as I appreciate my add-ons too much.
Calling ff a mess is worse, as someone that absolutely hates ads it's a godsend.
Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I've tried all the major browsers on Android, Windows, and Linux, and I've always come back to Firefox, even if there are minor caveats.
If Firefox on Android is a "mess", what does that make Microsoft Edge? :- )
If Firefox on Android is a "mess", what does that make Microsoft Edge? :- )
You might like Vivaldi. Basically Chrome w/ adblock without Brave's business model. Built by the team that left after Opera's purchase.
Does Vivaldi support add-ons/extensions on android? I don't see it mentioned on the landing page.
Granted, ad-block is the primary one and included by default in Vivaldi, but I still like there being a possibility for extensibility even if what's supported on Firefox for Android is limited.
Unfortunately not. This is why I considered FF before last years release to have been _the_ browser for Android.
FYI there is a chromium fork called Kiwi Browser that supports extensions. I'm using it to tell you this right now.
Kiwi has become my goto Android browser, and it's not even close. Primary reason being chrome add-on support.
But it does have a high number of quirks make it through to release versions. Like tab ordering in the current version is broken, such that swiping tabs are in a different order than browsing tabs.
But it does have a high number of quirks make it through to release versions. Like tab ordering in the current version is broken, such that swiping tabs are in a different order than browsing tabs.
I've noticed those quirks too. Maybe I've just grown a tolerance for buggy software, I do tolerate a lot of idiosyncrasies these days. But I would rather deal with silly mistakes than deliberate crippling of tools I need to use.
It says something about the goals of app and especially browser design when buggy but not feature crippled consistently beats "not buggy" but constantly removing user features to add tracking and other things we never asked for, like exposing saved payment methods.
Chrome is also adding bizarre ux choices on mobile. The tipping point for me was nested tabs (tab groups) with no way to disable them. I've been a happy Android Firefox user since then.
I use chromium based browsers on mobile primarily and I just want to agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't know why this decision was foisted on us. Two layers of organizational abstraction with minimal benefit. I'm sure some people like it, but that's why you make it optional. The UX with nesting tabs is absolutely abysmal.
As a user of Brave, I completely agree with this. I wish the tab grouping could be disabled instead of forced upon users. And despite the issues with Fenix's project management that I mentioned in my post, I still believe that between Google and Mozilla the latter organization would be more willing to listen to user feedback and not attempt to move forward with features such as those. I can't imagine Google suddenly deciding one day that tab grouping was a mistake and walking back such a feature.
The fact that open in new tab only gives the option for "in group" did it for me.
Kiwi at least gives options for opening new tabs as in-group or standalone.
Kiwi at least gives options for opening new tabs as in-group or standalone.
I don't think it's harsh, as those points to me aren't valid. I'd much rather have the Mozilla foundation focus on security, privacy, ubiquity than UX and less used features like history searching.
That said, I can't do any combination of Netflix + Any other application leveraging graphic card drivers. Completely locks up the computer milliseconds after application loads,need to hard restart. Event viewer for system and FF is no help. Submitted bug tickets, no updates. Oh well, it's fast and secure when I'm not on netflix.
That said, I can't do any combination of Netflix + Any other application leveraging graphic card drivers. Completely locks up the computer milliseconds after application loads,need to hard restart. Event viewer for system and FF is no help. Submitted bug tickets, no updates. Oh well, it's fast and secure when I'm not on netflix.
> I'd much rather have the Mozilla foundation focus on security
I would, too, but they're not able to keep up on that, either, despite vast funding.
Foundations and nonprofits used to do one thing well, not 12 things okay, and 5 things pretty poorly.
I would, too, but they're not able to keep up on that, either, despite vast funding.
Foundations and nonprofits used to do one thing well, not 12 things okay, and 5 things pretty poorly.
FF on android WAS a great browser. If it never existed before and you tried current version then it would be OK but lacking some important features and you could hope it would gain those features soon. Knowing what features have been removed since the FF was first released, it's hard to call FF great, good or even OK. And maybe you don't need or use those removed features...until you do need them and they are suddenly not there...and other browsers still have them or have gained them. After all that it becomes clear why FF is down to 1% and browser share and still sliding down. With that level of mismanagement it will either disappear or become unusable in not too distant future.
I've found the Firefox tabbing experience much nicer on mobile. Chrome wrecked their UX recently, sometimes new tabs become circles at the bottom (that don't obey the tab button) and sometimes they become big squares at the top that are under the tab button. The two types of tabs are confusing as hell.
And sometimes the big square tabs have little squares inside them so you now have tiny circles inside little squares inside big squares and this 3-dimensional tabbing is just nuts. 1 dimension is enough.
And sometimes the big square tabs have little squares inside them so you now have tiny circles inside little squares inside big squares and this 3-dimensional tabbing is just nuts. 1 dimension is enough.
Personally appreciate the grouping (roughly) by time opened, especially since the tabs are movable to other bunches.
I fully agree with you, but I have to admit I am not a mobile "power user", my usage pales in comparison to desktop usage.
But my only complaint is what I'd call a bug that I haven't reported. I have a custom search engine on the desktop, where I for example can rewrite e.g. "x leo whatever" to "search for whatever on leo.org", and I can call this via a literal https://example.org/leo%20whatever - but I can't get firefox to accept that I enter a url with a space, it will never open my own "https://example.org" with the params, it will always search google for "example.org" even if I prefix it with https:// - this is maddening and maybe I just haven't found the switch to remove this stupid omnibar trend. Oh, and the url bar at the bottom is weird, but I'm not even complaining.
But my only complaint is what I'd call a bug that I haven't reported. I have a custom search engine on the desktop, where I for example can rewrite e.g. "x leo whatever" to "search for whatever on leo.org", and I can call this via a literal https://example.org/leo%20whatever - but I can't get firefox to accept that I enter a url with a space, it will never open my own "https://example.org" with the params, it will always search google for "example.org" even if I prefix it with https:// - this is maddening and maybe I just haven't found the switch to remove this stupid omnibar trend. Oh, and the url bar at the bottom is weird, but I'm not even complaining.
> I should write a "I'm perfectly happy with Firefox, happier than I would be with any other browser" blog post and see if it gets any attention.
And here I was thinking the post missed a lot of issues maybe I should create another blog post.
Stop defending something that really has issues. This fanboy behaviour ends up hurting the very thing we love.
And here I was thinking the post missed a lot of issues maybe I should create another blog post.
Stop defending something that really has issues. This fanboy behaviour ends up hurting the very thing we love.
Saying that you're happier with a certain product than the competition is not fanboy behavior and should not be taken to mean a product is without fault, particularly when it relates to the use of other people. It is also less destructive behavior than a laundry list of faults with little acknowledgement of benefits, particularly when those faults will only be encountered by a fraction of the user base.
As for my experiences with Fenix, aside from a rocky ride when it was first introduced, it has been positive. This is coming from a person who prefers incremental change and frowns upon massive changes.
As for my experiences with Fenix, aside from a rocky ride when it was first introduced, it has been positive. This is coming from a person who prefers incremental change and frowns upon massive changes.
Agreed with you. FF was my main mobile browser when I could
-block ads
-modify default text size (so I could read websites like old.reddit.com without having to zoom in)
There were a whole lot of other great features that weren't dealbreakers without.
Now? It's just weird.
-block ads
-modify default text size (so I could read websites like old.reddit.com without having to zoom in)
There were a whole lot of other great features that weren't dealbreakers without.
Now? It's just weird.
What's weird about it? Works how I would expect.
The article mentions some of the many bugs one can anticipate.
Constructive criticism is important. However, praising things that are working well when everybody else is layering on the negativity with a trowel regarding the "death" of Firefox, and how it is a "mess" is important so that we don't end up with more undesirable changes made.
A bit of pushback here. There are a small, vocal contingent* of users who like to sing the praises and drown out real concerns.
* based on Play store reviews versus the vociferous defense one finds on here & r/technology when the issue is raised
* based on Play store reviews versus the vociferous defense one finds on here & r/technology when the issue is raised
I'm happier with android firefox than I would be with any other mobile browser, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have issues. The biggest one for me is that bookmarks are almost unusable. You can't search them, you can't see or edit tags, and you can't re-order them.
I like how the top reply to your comment is two complaints about firefox.
My major problem is that the rewrite in 2019 broke nearly all the addons and ones I use haven't been fixed.
I don't have download notifications neither with its own download manger or the external.
Mozilla would instantly recover a ton of goodwill by allowing users to install any WebExtension on Firefox for Android without having to go through a strange activation ritual that only works on the Nightly channel.* Considering how stable the extensions have been for me, I'm baffled at how Mozilla is not even letting the Beta channel test them.
* https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio...
* https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2020/09/29/expanded-extensio...
original promise: Firefox for Android, like Chrome but with infinite extensions written by people just like you for people just like you
new promise: Firefox for Android, underinvestment in UX you'll definitely hate and 12 potential extensions exclusively approved by a committee of parasitic boomers too far gone to be competitive on the contemporary labour market.
Absolute garbage. However way this cut, one team or otherwise, they clearly didn't have the SLIGHTEST clue about the primary value prop of their main product for its users. Today's Mozilla is organizationally incompetent, and I genuinely worry (user for decades) that this time it truly is beyond rescue. That the situation on Android has persisted for almost a year already tells you all you need to know: Mozilla appears not to even possess the nervous system to respond to the obvious pain and misery of its users from that disastrous Android UI rewrite. They seem utterly deaf and dumb, almost like it were already a cadaver. Reminds me of Yahoo
new promise: Firefox for Android, underinvestment in UX you'll definitely hate and 12 potential extensions exclusively approved by a committee of parasitic boomers too far gone to be competitive on the contemporary labour market.
Absolute garbage. However way this cut, one team or otherwise, they clearly didn't have the SLIGHTEST clue about the primary value prop of their main product for its users. Today's Mozilla is organizationally incompetent, and I genuinely worry (user for decades) that this time it truly is beyond rescue. That the situation on Android has persisted for almost a year already tells you all you need to know: Mozilla appears not to even possess the nervous system to respond to the obvious pain and misery of its users from that disastrous Android UI rewrite. They seem utterly deaf and dumb, almost like it were already a cadaver. Reminds me of Yahoo
Everyone's been gradually removing user empowerment features from browsers for years. I wonder if they just want us to get used to no or only a few curated extensions.
Firefox is odd in this regard, though. Chrome tried to make it so you could only add extensions while signed in to Google, but have since abandoned that policy and currently permits side loading, while Firefox doesn't allow any extensions that haven't been signed by their certificate which means that if they forget to renew that certificate you can't use any extensions...which actually happened. It's bizarre to me that Chrome offers more user agency in this regard than Firefox.
On desktop, Firefox Developer Edition, Nightly, and ESR still allow unsigned extensions after setting xpinstall.signatures.required to false in about:config.[1]
Firefox for Android doesn't allow sideloading,[2] and only has an advantage because Chrome for Android doesn't support extensions at all in its official relases.
[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/Extension_Signing#FAQ
[2] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 (closed without adequate resolution in https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034)
Firefox for Android doesn't allow sideloading,[2] and only has an advantage because Chrome for Android doesn't support extensions at all in its official relases.
[1] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Add-ons/Extension_Signing#FAQ
[2] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/11308 (closed without adequate resolution in https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/14034)
>On desktop, Firefox Developer Edition, Nightly, and ESR still allow unsigned extensions after setting xpinstall.signatures.required to false in about:config.
I'm aware, and that's great, but since those come with their own caveats, yabuts, exceptions, eccentricities and bugs, I don't consider any of those useful solutions to that problem for me.
I'm aware, and that's great, but since those come with their own caveats, yabuts, exceptions, eccentricities and bugs, I don't consider any of those useful solutions to that problem for me.
thanks so much, didn't know there is any way now.
Simple Gesture works amazingly well and you can avoid the tabs menu all together with it.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-gestur...
It just mustn't collide with the "pull down to refresh" so you might want to remap the gestures not to include down without an up before.
---
Now I just need to find a way to quickly open new tabs in fore- and even more important: background. Long press for anything frequent is just infuriating.
Simple Gesture works amazingly well and you can avoid the tabs menu all together with it.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/simple-gestur...
It just mustn't collide with the "pull down to refresh" so you might want to remap the gestures not to include down without an up before.
---
Now I just need to find a way to quickly open new tabs in fore- and even more important: background. Long press for anything frequent is just infuriating.
I'm so happy with the redesign.
All UX improvements and no complains for me. Also I noticed how it gets better. And with Ublock origin installed it rocks.
I'm not a power user on mobile, hope more use cases like me exists and adopt Firefox, it will not be the nightmarish future that the OP mention.
I think that the major challenge for Firefox is advertising, how to be known and get installs, the product is good, but Google is so big and powerful that takes all the air and suffocates the little fox. Is like those avengers movies taking all the attention of the culture and those challenging and thought provoking movies with five people in the theater and two reviews in YouTube with fifty views. Sad.
Sent from Firefox Android.
All UX improvements and no complains for me. Also I noticed how it gets better. And with Ublock origin installed it rocks.
I'm not a power user on mobile, hope more use cases like me exists and adopt Firefox, it will not be the nightmarish future that the OP mention.
I think that the major challenge for Firefox is advertising, how to be known and get installs, the product is good, but Google is so big and powerful that takes all the air and suffocates the little fox. Is like those avengers movies taking all the attention of the culture and those challenging and thought provoking movies with five people in the theater and two reviews in YouTube with fifty views. Sad.
Sent from Firefox Android.
It can't print. It doesn't support printing. If I need to print (to paper or PDF) something like an order receipt for an insurance claim or a shipping label to return something, I need to use another browser.
I still use it, but this annoys me ~weekly.
I still use it, but this annoys me ~weekly.
Yeah, the Save as PDF feature was handy and its absence from the current Firefox for Android feels like a regression. I hope they add it back.
- GitHub issue for printing: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/10217
- GitHub issue for Save as PDF: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/3709
- GitHub issue for printing: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/10217
- GitHub issue for Save as PDF: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/3709
Not sure how much it might help you, but I'm able to print from mine by "sharing" a page to an app for my printer from firefox mobile, but I'd definitely like a proper printing option instead.
why not screenshot or save it? It's not like the content is different.
Sometimes you must send a proper PDF. And saving a page to PDF (or "printing") is a basic feature of a browser. They shouldn't release a mobile browser without that.
Also, sending a low quality screenshot of a mobile screen isn't a professional thing.
Also, sending a low quality screenshot of a mobile screen isn't a professional thing.
>Also, sending a low quality screenshot of a mobile screen isn't a professional thing.
Cause a pdf is much more professional just because you open it in Adobe vs your photo gallery...
This is bar none some of the most business oriented pretentiousness I've ever read on here. There is nothing wrong with image files and screenshots. It's just a file format. The fact that you save one as a pdf doesn't change the fact that, again, the content is the absolute same. Anybody who is that anal about how they receive a file that does the exact same thing is completely out of touch. In my experience, only old people say the things you're saying cause they don't know how to work with various files.
Cause a pdf is much more professional just because you open it in Adobe vs your photo gallery...
This is bar none some of the most business oriented pretentiousness I've ever read on here. There is nothing wrong with image files and screenshots. It's just a file format. The fact that you save one as a pdf doesn't change the fact that, again, the content is the absolute same. Anybody who is that anal about how they receive a file that does the exact same thing is completely out of touch. In my experience, only old people say the things you're saying cause they don't know how to work with various files.
>Cause a pdf is much more professional just because you open it in Adobe vs your photo gallery
Yes it is.
Are you having a bad day or something? Your comment is quite hostile to the point where it seems like you're just going out of your way to be unpleasant.
Yes it is.
Are you having a bad day or something? Your comment is quite hostile to the point where it seems like you're just going out of your way to be unpleasant.
Some reading material for you. Being an ass is already annoying, but being an ass without even primary school level knowledge of the topic at hand is unacceptable.
PDF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics
Screenshot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics
See also: aspect ratio, custom print CSS, webpages that are longer than one screen height (all of them!)
PDF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_graphics
Screenshot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics
See also: aspect ratio, custom print CSS, webpages that are longer than one screen height (all of them!)
Screenshots doesn't scale properly and destroy all information about text (not that PDF stores text properly, but at least PDF readers succeed with various tricks to recover it).
Exactly. Being able to copy data from the PDF instead of relying on OCR or copying by hand is a great asset.
Also, in my country if I send plain screenshots from important things like bank transfers, legal documents instead of the generated PDF file I get politely asked to send them again. If the original is on paper a good quality scan is OK though.
And, you can't certificate or password protect image files (unless you use another format as a container).
Also, in my country if I send plain screenshots from important things like bank transfers, legal documents instead of the generated PDF file I get politely asked to send them again. If the original is on paper a good quality scan is OK though.
And, you can't certificate or password protect image files (unless you use another format as a container).
> About the only significant feature in my mind that Fenix has which Chrome for Android does not is WebExtension support, and even though this is indeed a very significant feature, for a user who doesn't particularly care about privacy it is practically the only feature that makes Fenix worthy of consideration over Chrome.
100% on the money. Note the caveat that a number of the key, vital, privacy preserving extensions are available on Firefox for Android, because otherwise, even users who do care about privacy would be shit-out-of-luck.
I'm glad to hear that Nightly is in a better spot though[1]! This makes me hope that eventually, improvements are coming. But right now it seems like a number of features seem to get disabled before release, such as about:config.
I hope some-day Chrome reconsiders this ancient old policy of providing zero user-agency on the web. Extensions are the system by which users can opt to modify their web experience, and not having extensions available on the most restricted, most constrained, most in-need-of-help modality is cruel. A decade ago there might have been sufficient cause to believe the "mobile devices aren't fast enough," but today it just feels like Google doesn't want to allow users to do good things for themselves.
[1] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/19594
100% on the money. Note the caveat that a number of the key, vital, privacy preserving extensions are available on Firefox for Android, because otherwise, even users who do care about privacy would be shit-out-of-luck.
I'm glad to hear that Nightly is in a better spot though[1]! This makes me hope that eventually, improvements are coming. But right now it seems like a number of features seem to get disabled before release, such as about:config.
I hope some-day Chrome reconsiders this ancient old policy of providing zero user-agency on the web. Extensions are the system by which users can opt to modify their web experience, and not having extensions available on the most restricted, most constrained, most in-need-of-help modality is cruel. A decade ago there might have been sufficient cause to believe the "mobile devices aren't fast enough," but today it just feels like Google doesn't want to allow users to do good things for themselves.
[1] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/19594
> The inactive tabs feature was met with significant criticism, because it turned out that if you had a large number of open tabs, it was now impossible to reach the list of "active" tabs without spending several seconds or minutes scrolling past the list of inactive tabs, every single time you opened the tab list
Anyone using Firefox on Android knows exactly what this person is talking about. This was my last straw before uninstalling Firefox for good.
Anyone using Firefox on Android knows exactly what this person is talking about. This was my last straw before uninstalling Firefox for good.
The typing in the url bar and not getting website lists from history or bookmarks kills me every time. It's infuriating to have to scroll below the word Android, to get to Androidpolice.com etc.
I have an even more infuriating issue with the urlbar suggestions.
About 50% of the time I type something in, it will find an url suggestion for the first letter or so but keep that suggestion at the end as I keep typing, unless I press backspace before enter. e.g. "hot tubs for salettps://news.ycombinator.com"
About 50% of the time I type something in, it will find an url suggestion for the first letter or so but keep that suggestion at the end as I keep typing, unless I press backspace before enter. e.g. "hot tubs for salettps://news.ycombinator.com"
Another annoying thing with the urlbar is when searching something (at least with Google).
Say you have set Google as your default search engine and you type 'giant books' in the urlbar (sans the quote marks). It will show that results page from Google. But say you want to look for giant books _only in your country_. So what I usually do is to add '.co' (or your country's suffix) after the '.com'. You'd tape on the urlbar, scroll until you find the '.com' and add the '.co'.
But nope. It won't let you modify the URL. For some weird reason it keeps showing the query string you originally typed, in this case 'giant books'. I haven't been able to find something that lets me modify the URL when searching something. In the example, I need to type 'google.com.co', retype the query string and search again.
Say you have set Google as your default search engine and you type 'giant books' in the urlbar (sans the quote marks). It will show that results page from Google. But say you want to look for giant books _only in your country_. So what I usually do is to add '.co' (or your country's suffix) after the '.com'. You'd tape on the urlbar, scroll until you find the '.com' and add the '.co'.
But nope. It won't let you modify the URL. For some weird reason it keeps showing the query string you originally typed, in this case 'giant books'. I haven't been able to find something that lets me modify the URL when searching something. In the example, I need to type 'google.com.co', retype the query string and search again.
I experienced that too, but I wrote it off as a keyboard issue since it stopped happening after I switched from AnySoftKeyboard to FlorisBoard. Which keyboard are you using?
Same issue for me on SwiftKey (yes, I know, shame on me). Definitely a browser issue.
That new Android version when it was released was so bad that it made me switch to Vivaldi on both mobile and desktop, and I've no plan to go back to Firefox. With the constant breaking and removal of features I don't trust Mozilla much anymore.
As an aside, I notice "let me preface this..." introductions more often than I used to.
I don't know what to make of it but I've found myself writing it some times, and when I do it, it's because I'm imagining a specific audience and trying to mitigate their backlash. Or I'm being too self-aware in the writing and assuming things readers don't.
The article starts off better without the apologetic rationalisation of something I haven't even read yet.
See for yourself, copy my post and add "Let me preface this by saying I don't have a problem with what I'm about to mention, but I am going to point out something I find frustrating, I've found it frustrating for a while, and I need to talk about it."
I don't know what to make of it but I've found myself writing it some times, and when I do it, it's because I'm imagining a specific audience and trying to mitigate their backlash. Or I'm being too self-aware in the writing and assuming things readers don't.
The article starts off better without the apologetic rationalisation of something I haven't even read yet.
See for yourself, copy my post and add "Let me preface this by saying I don't have a problem with what I'm about to mention, but I am going to point out something I find frustrating, I've found it frustrating for a while, and I need to talk about it."
My personal reason for beginning the post the way I did is because of the ease of misinterpreting someone's tone when the communication is only textual, and that you lose the extra context you might gain when being able to hear someone's voice.
I'm not angry at Mozilla because of the frustration I feel when trying to use Fenix as intended. I only wish that there was some way we could have a stable alternative to Chrome on Android with support for WebExtensions, and there appear to be several issues preventing that wish from coming true.
And I do not want to seem like I'm trying to attack anyone by trying to explain why I felt the frustration I did. I personally believe that declaring my intentions in a precise manner upfront is a reasonable step to take for a post like this.
I'm not angry at Mozilla because of the frustration I feel when trying to use Fenix as intended. I only wish that there was some way we could have a stable alternative to Chrome on Android with support for WebExtensions, and there appear to be several issues preventing that wish from coming true.
And I do not want to seem like I'm trying to attack anyone by trying to explain why I felt the frustration I did. I personally believe that declaring my intentions in a precise manner upfront is a reasonable step to take for a post like this.
Yeah I get it.
Oftentimes I write a reply and it seems perfectly harmless or half-serious, until I go back and read it later on in a different mood.
I suppose my bug bear is that sometimes it comes across as beating around the bush. Or setting an expectation about the writing that is only true because you described how you might uncharitably interpret your words.
I like it when people take responsibility for their perspectives and interpretations, so it's not up to an author, like you, to lay it all down up front.
Oftentimes I write a reply and it seems perfectly harmless or half-serious, until I go back and read it later on in a different mood.
I suppose my bug bear is that sometimes it comes across as beating around the bush. Or setting an expectation about the writing that is only true because you described how you might uncharitably interpret your words.
I like it when people take responsibility for their perspectives and interpretations, so it's not up to an author, like you, to lay it all down up front.
Firefox for Android is my daily driver. I really dig it; once you get used to the address bar being near your thumb there's no going back.
It would be great if Firefox for Android supported multiple user profiles for syncing. I use a work and personal profile on my desktop, and in edge mobile.
I have always been using Firefox on Android and it's a shame that the UI keeps getting worse. Why do they regularly remove features? I honestly don't understand it. The most egregious example is that with the latest version you can't move tabs anymore. Wtf? Why?
Resume Driven Development
We will continue to see posts like this till enough users are turned off by them and Firefox will no longer be a viable browser to run as a user or support as a dev. You are comparing the last truly free alternative to a browser built by ad grubby organisation. While a vocal minority keeps doing this the rest of us are happily using it without issues.
You don't like Firefox? Great! Chrome is just a click away. Feel free to enjoy the 'personalised' ad experiences there. Just don't spoil it for the rest of us happy users whose best outcome at this point is a few more ad free years of Firefox before morons like this who don't have big picture in mind end up killing it for good.
You don't like Firefox? Great! Chrome is just a click away. Feel free to enjoy the 'personalised' ad experiences there. Just don't spoil it for the rest of us happy users whose best outcome at this point is a few more ad free years of Firefox before morons like this who don't have big picture in mind end up killing it for good.
Moving away from Fenix does not mean that I no longer believe that advertising is universally harmful for the people who are constantly subjected to it. As I mentioned in my post, I am still a user of Firefox on desktop, and I wouldn't think of browsing the modern web without an adblocker anymore. The problem is that Fenix in its current state is too immature for me to use in a practical, day-to-day manner. That does not mean that Fenix cannot be improved in the future, and I absolutely believe that Mozilla is capable of doing so if they restructure their priorities.
I am concerned about the future of Firefox as much as you are, and that is the reason I wrote this post. I wanted more people to know of Fenix's issues so that it can ultimately become a better browser.
I am concerned about the future of Firefox as much as you are, and that is the reason I wrote this post. I wanted more people to know of Fenix's issues so that it can ultimately become a better browser.
>the last truly free alternative to a browser built by ad grubby organisation
Is it? Considering Mozilla gets most of their money from Google, I find assertions about their independence on very thin ice.
Also, the idea that discussing Firefox's problems is "ruining it for the rest of us" is absurd. People care about Firefox and are being vocal about the problems so that they might get fixed. The people being silent about Firefox's problems are the ones that no longer care and have long since moved on.
Is it? Considering Mozilla gets most of their money from Google, I find assertions about their independence on very thin ice.
Also, the idea that discussing Firefox's problems is "ruining it for the rest of us" is absurd. People care about Firefox and are being vocal about the problems so that they might get fixed. The people being silent about Firefox's problems are the ones that no longer care and have long since moved on.
Or, bear with me, use a fork of chromium and get google to give you their labor for free while using a piece of software that serves you first and foremost.
The problem with using Chromium/Bromite/whatever Blink-based is that Google is using their engine dominance to dictate Web standards, bypassing the standards bodies. They can add and remove features to suit their business goals and nobody can oppose them.
As long as Mozilla stick to Gecko, they can refuse to implement features they see as harmful and good web developers will simply not use them. If everyone uses Google's engine, there will be no practical reason to not use their shiny new feature, so only ethical/philosophical reasons remain. And we all know how much your average person cares about ethics, don't we?
As long as Mozilla stick to Gecko, they can refuse to implement features they see as harmful and good web developers will simply not use them. If everyone uses Google's engine, there will be no practical reason to not use their shiny new feature, so only ethical/philosophical reasons remain. And we all know how much your average person cares about ethics, don't we?
This is a good point, and one I have considered quite a bit. To me it is the only selling point for Firefox.
But I have to live my life, I have to use my tools, I need my tools to work on my behalf. If your tool sucks so bad that you have to sell it on what amounts to an ideological argument you need to change how you manage the tool. Why can't Mozilla do what they used to do, offer a competitor to google and a proper, working tool that serves the user?
Also on that note, if keeping a competing rendering engine is all you need, apple maintaining a walled garden with Safari playing that role. People have to use safari, unlike Firefox, so that role is filled.
But I have to live my life, I have to use my tools, I need my tools to work on my behalf. If your tool sucks so bad that you have to sell it on what amounts to an ideological argument you need to change how you manage the tool. Why can't Mozilla do what they used to do, offer a competitor to google and a proper, working tool that serves the user?
Also on that note, if keeping a competing rendering engine is all you need, apple maintaining a walled garden with Safari playing that role. People have to use safari, unlike Firefox, so that role is filled.
Weird that Mozilla could also be doing this.
I finally switched from firefox to safari on iOS. The latest redesign was the last straw for me. Very frustrating how the look of the app keeps changing without any useful updates. "telemetry says..."
I used to use Firefox for Android out of principle too, but I got sick of being used as a guinea pig for their UI experiments. They seem oblivious to the existence of muscle memory.
Is it possible to sync desktop Firefox with mobile Chrome, or any other mobile browser? Preferably one with user addons in general, and adblocking and user scripts in particular.
Is there a way to use FF Sync for on Chrome? I'm willing to give firefox on mobile another try but don't want to go all in with desktop just yet
As a long time Firefox user, from when it was still called Phoenix, I reluctantly and recently switched to Opera on Android. Firefox crashed several times a day, text input and rendering was messed up, no page refresh, limited extensions ... The list went on.
It's still my main desktop browser which I love. Other than sharing the name Firefox, the Android version has nothing else in common with it sadly.
It's still my main desktop browser which I love. Other than sharing the name Firefox, the Android version has nothing else in common with it sadly.
I have no issue with it at all. As with my desktop Firefox instances I have an embarrassing number of tabs, and have no complaints whatsoever.
I also don't have complaints but then reading the thread I realized I'm on version 68. Apparently some of the issues are regressions introduced in newer versions.
Also worth noting is that Tor Browser for android inherits all these issues. The most annoying one is not being able to download images from sites that use cookies, since 90% of the mainstream websites you'll visit via Tor require you to fill out the Cloudflare DDOS protection captcha, and require the use of cookies!
I use https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.mozilla.fennec_fdroid/ as my preferred firefox android fork.
I use the addon collection from account 16201230 named "What-I-want-on-Fenix".
This gives me uBlock Origin, Bypass Paywalls Clean, I Don't Care About Cookies, SponsorBlock, ViolentMonkey, etc.
The stewardship of Firefox and Fennec are a real concern, but for now, this works.
I use the addon collection from account 16201230 named "What-I-want-on-Fenix".
This gives me uBlock Origin, Bypass Paywalls Clean, I Don't Care About Cookies, SponsorBlock, ViolentMonkey, etc.
The stewardship of Firefox and Fennec are a real concern, but for now, this works.
Desktop : firefox
Mobile: moved from firefox to Vivaldi
Mobile: moved from firefox to Vivaldi
And yet even with all these complaints the product has tens of millions of happy users and is growing month over month.
nice try
Unfortunately, this is what actual Mozilla developers think about posts like this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200731211652/https://www.twitt...
It's sad.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200731211652/https://www.twitt...
It's sad.
Hello that is me. I left almost a year ago. I posted that as a joke after years of abuse and it was directed towards those abusive community members. I had no ill will towards users. In fact, users are why I stayed so long and tried to improve the product. I agree with some of the criticisms in this post. The fact you’re still using me, the most public facing woman on the project, as a scapegoat and target for your frustrations is predictable but sad. In general targeting one dev will not get you anywhere.
Thanks for all of your hard work on Firefox mobile -- I've read plenty of background about those abusive community members, and I can only sympathize with you. People can be jerks.
That being said; responding to them with that (public!) tweet probably only added fuel to the fire, especially since the tweet wasn't clearly directed at only those abusive community members. If I didn't know about your full story and stumbled upon that tweet, I wouldn't come away from it with the best impression of you or Mozilla.
I'm not sure this person is necessarily targeting you. Or women in general. It seems to me like they're just frustrated with the product and this tweet is a very easy vent for that frustration.
Anyway, hopefully your current role is a little less political than what you dealt with at Mozilla. I definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as you did in that situation!
That being said; responding to them with that (public!) tweet probably only added fuel to the fire, especially since the tweet wasn't clearly directed at only those abusive community members. If I didn't know about your full story and stumbled upon that tweet, I wouldn't come away from it with the best impression of you or Mozilla.
I'm not sure this person is necessarily targeting you. Or women in general. It seems to me like they're just frustrated with the product and this tweet is a very easy vent for that frustration.
Anyway, hopefully your current role is a little less political than what you dealt with at Mozilla. I definitely wouldn't have lasted as long as you did in that situation!
You might consider that when you start bashing the Firefox developers personally, they are much more likely to just stop working on Firefox entirely than to listen to you. Realize that most engineers working at Mozilla are already giving up some amount of money to do so relative to what they could earn at FAANG.
That person doesn't work at Mozilla or on free software at all anymore. It was a bad tweet, but it's past the time to reasonably hold that against Mozilla.
Mozilla has a lot of problems, and it would be better to blame them for the problems that are still around rather than a bad tweet from months ago by someone not employed at Mozilla any longer.
Mozilla has a lot of problems, and it would be better to blame them for the problems that are still around rather than a bad tweet from months ago by someone not employed at Mozilla any longer.
Past time? She left in February.
She left near the beginning of the year and we're nearing the end of the year.
And the changes she was involved in have yet to be rolled back.
Long shadows happen when developers have user-hostile attitudes.
Long shadows happen when developers have user-hostile attitudes.
It's fine to acknowledge that Firefox for anything but desktop sucks now. I do pretty often, actually:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26762431
But complaining about a problem that Mozilla's already gotten rid of is counterproductive at best.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26762431
But complaining about a problem that Mozilla's already gotten rid of is counterproductive at best.
Just don't mind the gap in security on your desktop, then?
Or do you disable JS?
Or do you disable JS?
Is there any more context to this? Because the tweet is vague and assuming it's about posts like this seems like a bit of a jump unless you've got further info about it
Here is some context: https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/i8nuyb/firefox_de...
Some corners of the internet got annoyed a women was working as a programmer for Mozilla and took things a bit too far. Turns out it gets dug up by the same haters under every post about Firefox.
I'm not in that camp. I simply genuinely dislike FF mobile now, when it used to be the best browser available on Android.
You might have posted on the wrong comment thread? This one was me asking for context for a bad-faith read of a vague tweet
My concern is that bad tweet message (which, in my opinion, is not a bad faith read) is not poisoned because the tweet author also stirs negativity from (what I assume from your comment) the gamergate crowd.
Is this woman involved in gamergate? I genuinely don't know anything about the tweet author or any of the context which is why I've asked for more info
The way things are going, Firefox will have to drop their rendering engine for Webkit. What they're doing now is unsustainable.
As far as I have seen, it's fast. I don't notice a difference on the rare occasion I open chromium to check and see that some application will look the same for a client as it does for me.
But I guess it's always true: people go out of their way to complain, but not to compliment.
I should write a "I'm perfectly happy with Firefox, happier than I would be with any other browser" blog post and see if it gets any attention.