Ask HN: How do you stay motivated and productive?
53 comments
Sorry to hear about it...
Motivation is an unfortunately difficult placeholder word when a lot of other words and descriptions could work better. Could it be that your preferred perspectives and roles are blocked by others at work, and your ability to believe in a good outcome is compromised? Just as one example. In this case it might help to reframe your role and your tools, in a way that still fits your skills. In this way, differing descriptions of the problem can sometimes offer new leverage.
Same with "boring". Can your perspective on boredom be described in a different way that highlights solutions that weren't on the table before? I have one friend who finds a lack of ideation boring, because he's a conceptualizer. I have another friend who finds a lack of physical stimulation boring.
And we would need to know, are you only temporarily comfortable ruling options out before trying them, and are you eventually going to feel more willing to allow for random unknowns and outside possibilities and try them? In such a case we could put switching jobs externally and internally both back on the mood board, which at least gives you more local control over the general process.
There's a lot of ground to cover but I hope you find yourself getting some good ideas as you ask around. Good luck and may you find yourself in an awesome new work situation.
Motivation is an unfortunately difficult placeholder word when a lot of other words and descriptions could work better. Could it be that your preferred perspectives and roles are blocked by others at work, and your ability to believe in a good outcome is compromised? Just as one example. In this case it might help to reframe your role and your tools, in a way that still fits your skills. In this way, differing descriptions of the problem can sometimes offer new leverage.
Same with "boring". Can your perspective on boredom be described in a different way that highlights solutions that weren't on the table before? I have one friend who finds a lack of ideation boring, because he's a conceptualizer. I have another friend who finds a lack of physical stimulation boring.
And we would need to know, are you only temporarily comfortable ruling options out before trying them, and are you eventually going to feel more willing to allow for random unknowns and outside possibilities and try them? In such a case we could put switching jobs externally and internally both back on the mood board, which at least gives you more local control over the general process.
There's a lot of ground to cover but I hope you find yourself getting some good ideas as you ask around. Good luck and may you find yourself in an awesome new work situation.
I definitely don't believe in good outcomes. I don't think performance is rewarded, and the next level is unobtainable. The systems only get more complex and unstable. The company has been making a string of decisions that have a negative impact on employees too.
I'm a midlevel application engineer mostly maintaining systems that move data from a legacy system into a cloud system. There's a high level of context switching and constant PRD support issues. It's a terrible environment for me, yet most other postings don't seem any better.
I haven't completely ruled out internal or external moves, but I'm tired of people saying "just leave". I have posted to a couple internal and external roles, but didn't get them (not enough "real" Android experience). I have some professional and personal things that limit some of my choices and can make the switch difficult/risky.
I am a conceptualizer. I do think it's a lack of ideation, or that the even when new ideas are presented they aren't pursued. I think I'd love a job as an architect, but that's unobtainable from my current level.
I'm a midlevel application engineer mostly maintaining systems that move data from a legacy system into a cloud system. There's a high level of context switching and constant PRD support issues. It's a terrible environment for me, yet most other postings don't seem any better.
I haven't completely ruled out internal or external moves, but I'm tired of people saying "just leave". I have posted to a couple internal and external roles, but didn't get them (not enough "real" Android experience). I have some professional and personal things that limit some of my choices and can make the switch difficult/risky.
I am a conceptualizer. I do think it's a lack of ideation, or that the even when new ideas are presented they aren't pursued. I think I'd love a job as an architect, but that's unobtainable from my current level.
God, you reminded me what an energy drain it was to be in such a situation. I hear you there. I hope you'll take good care of yourself in your daily routines while you get this bigger-picture issue sorted.
> I think I'd love a job as an architect, but that's unobtainable from my current level.
You do seem like the exact kind of person who would benefit from using an architect's tools and perspectives. Fortunately being big-picture tools in large part, they are very readily adaptable to any process you want.
IDEO design interviews and videos on YT, and lectures on systems thinking are sometimes a fun way to rekindle this type of mindset for problem-solving purposes.
(An open-ended, architectural process of designing the system that will get you into your next fulfilling position? Not everybody can do that, but based on what you wrote, you'd go to the front of my line...)
> I think I'd love a job as an architect, but that's unobtainable from my current level.
You do seem like the exact kind of person who would benefit from using an architect's tools and perspectives. Fortunately being big-picture tools in large part, they are very readily adaptable to any process you want.
IDEO design interviews and videos on YT, and lectures on systems thinking are sometimes a fun way to rekindle this type of mindset for problem-solving purposes.
(An open-ended, architectural process of designing the system that will get you into your next fulfilling position? Not everybody can do that, but based on what you wrote, you'd go to the front of my line...)
Thanks!
"An open-ended, architectural process of designing the system that will get you into your next fulfilling position?"
It's certainly a challenging task. There are some significant constraints in my situation. I'm tempted to just not care, let them eventually fire me, and find a low stress job like working at Lowe's. It's boring but the expectations at $11/hr f you money at the opposite end of the spectrum (as in you don't pay me enough to care).
"An open-ended, architectural process of designing the system that will get you into your next fulfilling position?"
It's certainly a challenging task. There are some significant constraints in my situation. I'm tempted to just not care, let them eventually fire me, and find a low stress job like working at Lowe's. It's boring but the expectations at $11/hr f you money at the opposite end of the spectrum (as in you don't pay me enough to care).
yw. The temptation makes sense to me. I know a lot of people who have done something similar.
I remember one who was a top salesman at a solar company, but totally burnt out. He had four custom houses in locations around the world; he sold them all & narrowed down his possessions into a single carry-on. Broke up with his GF and poof, his new interim life had started.
He jumped around to a few different positions (f-u-style) before eventually re-anchoring.
In a lot of cases this is something like a personal transformation process, as well, or can be described as such...
I remember one who was a top salesman at a solar company, but totally burnt out. He had four custom houses in locations around the world; he sold them all & narrowed down his possessions into a single carry-on. Broke up with his GF and poof, his new interim life had started.
He jumped around to a few different positions (f-u-style) before eventually re-anchoring.
In a lot of cases this is something like a personal transformation process, as well, or can be described as such...
> I think I'd love a job as an architect, but that's unobtainable from my current level.
I’ve thought this for years, given how many crazy things I’ve designed and architected in my head, but never built.
But just as I found out with programming, I have a feeling it’s a lot more boring when applied to “real world” problems.
I’ve thought this for years, given how many crazy things I’ve designed and architected in my head, but never built.
But just as I found out with programming, I have a feeling it’s a lot more boring when applied to “real world” problems.
> I'm a midlevel application engineer mostly maintaining systems that move data from a legacy system into a cloud system.
The real question is: Are you working for a tech company or a regular business that "happens to do tech".
If the latter, it's time to jump ship.
The real question is: Are you working for a tech company or a regular business that "happens to do tech".
If the latter, it's time to jump ship.
FWIW I was very surprised to learn that the former will have little interest in you if you’re entrenched in the latter.
Or so it seems.
Or so it seems.
IT is a cost center here
This is bad advice, so don't do this, but here's what I do when I have a big project to tackle and want to work through it: I basically bribe myself with snacks or other stuff I like. Two more hours and I'll go make a peppermint tea with honey and lemon. Four hours in, I'll sit with legs up the wall in yoga pose. Six hours have some gummy bears. Etc etc.
It's not a good practice for all-encompassing stuff like the job overall, but for specific dreaded projects it tends to work well!
The other thing you might like to check out is Cal Newport's book "So Good They Can't Ignore You." His premise is basically that all jobs suck and are just jobs, and how you train yourself to "enjoy" them is to become the expert at the processes and things you do and do them so well that you end up enjoying the work for the sheer satisfaction of it. I don't know if I'm explaining that part well but basically you kind of learn to enjoy the frustration parts by learning to master them.
When all else fails, become friends with your coworkers and now you have friends at work to bond with and that makes it enjoyable!
It's not a good practice for all-encompassing stuff like the job overall, but for specific dreaded projects it tends to work well!
The other thing you might like to check out is Cal Newport's book "So Good They Can't Ignore You." His premise is basically that all jobs suck and are just jobs, and how you train yourself to "enjoy" them is to become the expert at the processes and things you do and do them so well that you end up enjoying the work for the sheer satisfaction of it. I don't know if I'm explaining that part well but basically you kind of learn to enjoy the frustration parts by learning to master them.
When all else fails, become friends with your coworkers and now you have friends at work to bond with and that makes it enjoyable!
> His premise is basically that all jobs suck and are just jobs, and how you train yourself to "enjoy" them
Sure, all jobs suck, but I’d be a hell of a lot more content in some, than others.
Sure, all jobs suck, but I’d be a hell of a lot more content in some, than others.
"become the expert at the processes and things you do and do them so well that you end up enjoying the work for the sheer satisfaction of it."
I've hit this before. The environment on this current team doesn't really allow me to become an expert. I'll add that book to my list though. Thanks!
I've hit this before. The environment on this current team doesn't really allow me to become an expert. I'll add that book to my list though. Thanks!
It's sort of a mindfuck almost because at least when I did it myself for the #1 thing I had to master at work it was sort of a "hate it so much you love it" situation. It was budgets. So I hyped myself up so much to tackle the damn budget that in some weird twisted way I started enjoying doing it and now it's like, "AHHHH HAAAA I WILL CRUSH YOU" when budget projections come up. Although truth be told I still loathe doing it, I just make such a big dumb "thing" over it in my head that I enjoy it more for the stupidity and theatrics. The second you finish it, they change it! Wahoo! Lol.
I know what you mean. There are some things I take care of right away because I hate them. Most of my tasks vary wildly, so I haven't been able to expand that hatred to all of them (seems to require focus on just a couple).
Crush it at your job with this one weird trick of hating everything! XD
That would be better than my current situation. Everyone genuinely believes that I'm very intelligent because of the way I talk about my hobbies, the details I know, and the variety of hobbies I have. This leads them to believe that I'm really intelligent, but just not engaged or something.
In reality I don't think I'm that intelligent, maybe the upper half of the normal range, if that. It's just that you don't meet many people in finance IT who are also into culturing mushrooms, beekeeping, creating Android apps, etc.
In reality I don't think I'm that intelligent, maybe the upper half of the normal range, if that. It's just that you don't meet many people in finance IT who are also into culturing mushrooms, beekeeping, creating Android apps, etc.
If you really hate your job, quit and find a different one. If you hate the tasks, asks for different tasks.
I know this might not be an option though. So some things that help me to do tasks that I hate doing is to break things up. Set a small goal, accomplish that, and then take a break. Go for a quick walk or grab a snack or read something. Rinse and repeat. Slow and steady wins the race. Eventually the larger task is done. And while you're doing the smaller task, try not to get distracted. Manage your distractions and just let yourself get distracted in your breaks. You can take a lot of breaks lol.
I also find that doing random things to make myself happy let's me enjoy my time working a little more. Like having some nice snacks at my desk, or wearing really comfy clothing, or listening to good music. Then I'm not just wishing I could be done, because at least I'm eating these snacks.
I've been here. It sucks. I really would suggest trying to find a job you like doing a little more. Good luck!
I know this might not be an option though. So some things that help me to do tasks that I hate doing is to break things up. Set a small goal, accomplish that, and then take a break. Go for a quick walk or grab a snack or read something. Rinse and repeat. Slow and steady wins the race. Eventually the larger task is done. And while you're doing the smaller task, try not to get distracted. Manage your distractions and just let yourself get distracted in your breaks. You can take a lot of breaks lol.
I also find that doing random things to make myself happy let's me enjoy my time working a little more. Like having some nice snacks at my desk, or wearing really comfy clothing, or listening to good music. Then I'm not just wishing I could be done, because at least I'm eating these snacks.
I've been here. It sucks. I really would suggest trying to find a job you like doing a little more. Good luck!
Quitting (if possible) is good advice. I stayed on a job longer than I should have, it was horrible. It was some maintenance work, with weird practices and really old code. People who wrote it were long gone.
I was miserable. I lost what little confidence I had in my coding abilities, because for months, I didn’t write any code, just doing maintenance work.
Some people adapt and they succeed in doing their tasks well, even if they are shit tasks. Most people need some amount of creativity and interest to produce anything useful.
Adapt or quit. I’d vote for quitting, but just find another job first, before quitting
I was miserable. I lost what little confidence I had in my coding abilities, because for months, I didn’t write any code, just doing maintenance work.
Some people adapt and they succeed in doing their tasks well, even if they are shit tasks. Most people need some amount of creativity and interest to produce anything useful.
Adapt or quit. I’d vote for quitting, but just find another job first, before quitting
I've tried asking for different task, or even consistent tasks. They said there's nothing they can do.
I've been looking for other jobs, but I have quite a few constraints.
I've tried the snack thing. I think it's not a great strategy health wise (put on 15 lbs in 2 months). When we were in the office I would walk to the vending machine... more expensive, same outcome.
I've been looking for other jobs, but I have quite a few constraints.
I've tried the snack thing. I think it's not a great strategy health wise (put on 15 lbs in 2 months). When we were in the office I would walk to the vending machine... more expensive, same outcome.
You sound like you might be burned out. If that's a possibility, my advice for you would be: get some professional help. A lot of psychologists offer a free first session. Take one.
If you don't want to do that, I would advise concentrating on improving everything that isn't your job instead.
Spend quality time with you r family. Exercise regularly. Eat healthy. Reconnect with old friends, or make new ones. Do some creative hobby from time to time. Sleep enough hours.
Those things compound. It will be much easier to endure those boring tasks at work if the rest of your life is enjoyable.
And you might find it easier to find a different job once you're have a more positive mindset.
The worst that can happen is that you feel better and your work situation doesn't change.
If you don't want to do that, I would advise concentrating on improving everything that isn't your job instead.
Spend quality time with you r family. Exercise regularly. Eat healthy. Reconnect with old friends, or make new ones. Do some creative hobby from time to time. Sleep enough hours.
Those things compound. It will be much easier to endure those boring tasks at work if the rest of your life is enjoyable.
And you might find it easier to find a different job once you're have a more positive mindset.
The worst that can happen is that you feel better and your work situation doesn't change.
On a related note, I was wondering if an ASD diagnosis would be helpful in any way. I don't know if I would get one, but quite a few of the symptoms sound like they fit and I was told by two different people that they think I might have it (not insults).
Could be worth exploring. :) If you do have ASD, its possible some random thing you do or say at work limits you, and you could possibly learn to behave a bit differently if that got a better response from neurotypical people. And/or declare your ASD publicly if you've got it, which might make some people more considerate of you. This doesn't seem entirely fair to have to do this, the world should be better about neuro-diversity, but it may be a pragmatic thing to do. As a random internet stranger, I'd say some of your posts might slightly display "rigid" thinking, not thinking out of the box and what you could change about your situation as much as some people. Which is a red flag to me for ASD. I've a family member who is undoubtedly ASD, no official diagnosis, he's stayed years in a job that's doing him no good whatsoever, pretty much because he doesn't like change. Hopefully this comment is taken as helpful and I don't wish any offence. :) I'm surrounded by family and friends with ASD, and not 100% sure I'm not slightly on the spectrum myself. ;). (not always writing in tactful or diplomatic way is my own red flag.. so please forgive if I haven't been tactful in this post!)
Thanks! At the very least I'm an introvert in an organization that heavily favors extroverts. This company bias was actually discussed in one of the nuerodiversity sessions at my company. Some of the other things discussed in the session made me think 'hmm that sounds like me'. Unfortunately, the company's was just about awareness and their partnership with Auticon. They didn't say anything about what they can or are doing for existing employees in regards to practices or allowances.
If you happen to be a Christian I recommend Spiritual Depression by David Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Addresses many of the reasons people get in a funk or a rut.
From what you say it sounds like leaving is not an option. Can you make the job better in some way? Can you automate anything, and not tell your employer, so you look more productive but they don't know why? ;) Learning some bash and python to script stuff, could help here (and be v useful long-term skills). Make copious notes, to help with the context switching? If you're pretty much stuck, can you reduce outgoings and save some money, in order that one day you could work for a less-paid but more satisfying job? That could be a motivator, if you had a financial goal to reach, and could see yourself getting towards that daily? Do you absolutely have to live where you do, if local job market isn't fantastic? Is there some compromise involving moving "a little way down the road"? Just some ideas.... trying to help :)
Thanks! Nothing automatible in this team that hasn't already been automated. I have used bat and ksh scripts to automate things in the past though.
I'm already at a minimum cash outflow. I basically gave up many hobbies for ones that are cheaper or free. My friends actually make jokes about how cheap I am.
I'm already at a minimum cash outflow. I basically gave up many hobbies for ones that are cheaper or free. My friends actually make jokes about how cheap I am.
I don't, and I don't care.
Productivity comes and goes. If I feel good, I'm productive naturally. If I've got a reason to be motivated, I'll be productive. Otherwise I might not be that great.
I have standards which are above what others, including managers, expect of me. I don't communicate these to anyone, in fact I don't have them written down. These are so internalized that I get anxious about failing them, in the same way I might about a deadline. This is where I get my motivation.
Motivation is fickle. The longer I've fallen back onto standards and motivation the greater the chance of slipping the standards. When that happens, the motivation evaporates.
If I feel good, I'm productive naturally. How much energy do I have? Energy comes from sleeping, eating, and exercising. If I'm doing those three things well, I don't have to worry about productivity at all.
None of this was set up with 'productivity' in mind. I really don't care about it. My 'standards' influence but don't include productivity. I sleep, eat, and exercise not because I work better but because I feel better.
Obsessing over 'productivity' feels like a mental health trap to me, like money.
Productivity comes and goes. If I feel good, I'm productive naturally. If I've got a reason to be motivated, I'll be productive. Otherwise I might not be that great.
I have standards which are above what others, including managers, expect of me. I don't communicate these to anyone, in fact I don't have them written down. These are so internalized that I get anxious about failing them, in the same way I might about a deadline. This is where I get my motivation.
Motivation is fickle. The longer I've fallen back onto standards and motivation the greater the chance of slipping the standards. When that happens, the motivation evaporates.
If I feel good, I'm productive naturally. How much energy do I have? Energy comes from sleeping, eating, and exercising. If I'm doing those three things well, I don't have to worry about productivity at all.
None of this was set up with 'productivity' in mind. I really don't care about it. My 'standards' influence but don't include productivity. I sleep, eat, and exercise not because I work better but because I feel better.
Obsessing over 'productivity' feels like a mental health trap to me, like money.
> Also, switching jobs [...] externally doesn't seem to be a likely option
Why is that?
Why is that?
My experience is in obscure tech, my wife won't relocate, and remote-only is not a great option for me when onboarding.
I haven't seen many jobs that are interesting or even pay the same (most require a pay cut since I would be starting over). I applied to one recently, but I guess I don't have enough real Android experience.
I haven't seen many jobs that are interesting or even pay the same (most require a pay cut since I would be starting over). I applied to one recently, but I guess I don't have enough real Android experience.
All of these are understandable considerations.
Since you are paying with your life, I can only highly encourage you to reconsider your conclusions.
Since you are paying with your life, I can only highly encourage you to reconsider your conclusions.
That carries the assumption that my life is some high value object, yet there are 8 billion of us and I'm not more important than the next.
True, it assumes unique value -- but only to a single person.
Since to you your life is different in one crucial regard to everyone else's (it's yours) I dare say you are the prime candidate to realize it.
Since to you your life is different in one crucial regard to everyone else's (it's yours) I dare say you are the prime candidate to realize it.
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Remember why you started.
If the situation/conditions are different now and you are not happy or your expectations are not fulfilling: Time for change ?
If the situation/conditions are different now and you are not happy or your expectations are not fulfilling: Time for change ?
I'm not happy, but I don't think another position would make me any happier.
Spite has been a great motivator for me lately. Be like Michael Jordan and take it personal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss5Ndz0tn9o
Then do the bare minimum as quickly as possible so you have time to plan and do what's necessary to change your situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss5Ndz0tn9o
Then do the bare minimum as quickly as possible so you have time to plan and do what's necessary to change your situation.
I did that one year. Got a needs improvement rating for political reasons. Thought I'd just kick ass the next year and get the highest rating. Nope. They don't follow their own rules so I can't spite them within the constraints of the system they run.
Time for a new job. You've probably been there too long and have gotten fed up with the way of doing things.
by doing new things like you need to discover more about minecraft. first of all you should know how many mood minecraft have . then you should know about minecraft circle generator.
https://minecraftcirclegenerator.info/
> It's just a job, not a career
What's wrong with this? You realize that if you died today your job would get posted before your obituary, don't you?
Don't let your job mean too much to you. Do the job, get paid, and find meaning, community, and fulfillment elsewhere.
What's wrong with this? You realize that if you died today your job would get posted before your obituary, don't you?
Don't let your job mean too much to you. Do the job, get paid, and find meaning, community, and fulfillment elsewhere.
Nothing wrong with it. It just eliminates the option of pushing through this to get to the next level.
It doesn't mean too much to me. But it does mean that I get a paycheck that I use to support my family. I just need to be motivated and productive enough to keep the job.
It doesn't mean too much to me. But it does mean that I get a paycheck that I use to support my family. I just need to be motivated and productive enough to keep the job.
Usually, if you’re visibly underperforming, you get clear warning messages from management before you actually get fired. They tend to be very motivating. Alas, if you’re not getting them yet, then your performance doesn’t look as bad from the outside as you think.
I'll likely get a porr rating this year based on their feedback. Interestingly enough, they say I've somehow turned it around in the past couple months eventhough I didn't change anything.
The only real feedback I got on why I'm off track is that I'm slow. I also agree that I'm slow. Management and I agree that I'm slow due to a high level of context switching. I brought up that maybe a new team with less switching would be better for me. They are discouraging that.
The only real feedback I got on why I'm off track is that I'm slow. I also agree that I'm slow. Management and I agree that I'm slow due to a high level of context switching. I brought up that maybe a new team with less switching would be better for me. They are discouraging that.
Little clue: there is no "next nevel" when you're working to realize some other asshole's dream. The "next level" is more of the same, with a small pay raise and a more prestigious title if you're lucky.
If you want to do something meaningful with your life, stop making rich assholes even richer and get the fuckers to invest in you so you can realize your own dream.
Be a fuckin' entrepreneur instead of some entrepreneur's flunky.
If you want to do something meaningful with your life, stop making rich assholes even richer and get the fuckers to invest in you so you can realize your own dream.
Be a fuckin' entrepreneur instead of some entrepreneur's flunky.
This. so. much.
If your life feels empty and you're unhappy working for some no name company in an entry level role, do you really think being chief sr. lead back end architect at Google is going to flip everything around?
If your life feels empty and you're unhappy working for some no name company in an entry level role, do you really think being chief sr. lead back end architect at Google is going to flip everything around?
Any ideas on how to increase motivation at work?