Show HN: Nests and Insects – A roguelike tabletop roleplaying game(github.com)
github.com
Show HN: Nests and Insects – A roguelike tabletop roleplaying game
https://github.com/stassa/nests-and-insects
10 comments
It's seems interesting. I run the pathfinder rpg, both online (play-by-post) and attempting restart in person. There was a time when my GM was designing rules-lite games and taking us through and this would have fit in quite well.
My immediate reaction to this setting is that it would make an interesting "one-shot" but it would be hard to sustain a longer-term campaign around it. But certainly good for 1-4 session, as long as the rules are usable.
My own approach as GM generally is never letting the rules get in the way of imagining the world the way I want to have. I could easily have a story that uses a story of raiding Eusocial insects with my standard character group - either transforming them into insects or with their characters as-is - and set further that would take them to a different world after 3-4 sessions.
I don't know if this helps but I figured I'd share my reaction.
Plus I generally admire your "work", your comments and posts.
My immediate reaction to this setting is that it would make an interesting "one-shot" but it would be hard to sustain a longer-term campaign around it. But certainly good for 1-4 session, as long as the rules are usable.
My own approach as GM generally is never letting the rules get in the way of imagining the world the way I want to have. I could easily have a story that uses a story of raiding Eusocial insects with my standard character group - either transforming them into insects or with their characters as-is - and set further that would take them to a different world after 3-4 sessions.
I don't know if this helps but I figured I'd share my reaction.
Plus I generally admire your "work", your comments and posts.
Thanks Joe :)
>> My own approach as GM generally is never letting the rules get in the way of imagining the world the way I want to have. I could easily have a story that uses a story of raiding Eusocial insects with my standard character group - either transforming them into insects or with their characters as-is - and set further that would take them to a different world after 3-4 sessions.
Yes, that's the spirit! That's the way to play! Not just my game, but any game really. Take from it what's useful to you and mix and match to your heart's delight. The goal is to play a game and enjoy it. Not to dumbly execute rules just because they're written somewhere!
As to one-shotting, yes, that's right, this is not a game that can sustain a long campaign, I figure. I really designed it with the way I play Nethack in mind: I start it up, play until I lose a couple of characters (which happens fast) and then go do something else. Or, of course, I savescum just to get deeper into the dungeon and see what's there... But I can have fun with it without sinking a huge deal of time into it.
Something that might not be clear from the rules so far is that you don't create characters, you just choose one of the pre-set ones and go. You also don't need to write up a scenario, because everything is procedurally generated (or will be once I get the rules for that down pat... still WIP there). So you can just pick up the game and play immediately. Basically, I consciously tried to minimse the time investment required by the players, otherwise I don't reckon anybody will really give mine a go, when they're already spending all their time playing some other, usually "big" game (like PF). I'm trying to carve a niche, see :)
I don't know if I'd characterise my game as "rules light" though. I might be wrong about it, for instance if you compare it to something like Runequest it certainly lighter and plays faster. But it does have lots of ruless text that you have to read before you can figure out how to play. That is a bit of a limitation and goes against my "low time investment" design goal.
Or, of course, you can just rip the stats off and use BRP or some other percentile system that you already know, instead of my own. Or even d20 with every stat divided by 5, rounded-down. That should work also. I'll probably add rules for conversion to BRP and some form of d20 at the end of the rulebook in fact.
>> My own approach as GM generally is never letting the rules get in the way of imagining the world the way I want to have. I could easily have a story that uses a story of raiding Eusocial insects with my standard character group - either transforming them into insects or with their characters as-is - and set further that would take them to a different world after 3-4 sessions.
Yes, that's the spirit! That's the way to play! Not just my game, but any game really. Take from it what's useful to you and mix and match to your heart's delight. The goal is to play a game and enjoy it. Not to dumbly execute rules just because they're written somewhere!
As to one-shotting, yes, that's right, this is not a game that can sustain a long campaign, I figure. I really designed it with the way I play Nethack in mind: I start it up, play until I lose a couple of characters (which happens fast) and then go do something else. Or, of course, I savescum just to get deeper into the dungeon and see what's there... But I can have fun with it without sinking a huge deal of time into it.
Something that might not be clear from the rules so far is that you don't create characters, you just choose one of the pre-set ones and go. You also don't need to write up a scenario, because everything is procedurally generated (or will be once I get the rules for that down pat... still WIP there). So you can just pick up the game and play immediately. Basically, I consciously tried to minimse the time investment required by the players, otherwise I don't reckon anybody will really give mine a go, when they're already spending all their time playing some other, usually "big" game (like PF). I'm trying to carve a niche, see :)
I don't know if I'd characterise my game as "rules light" though. I might be wrong about it, for instance if you compare it to something like Runequest it certainly lighter and plays faster. But it does have lots of ruless text that you have to read before you can figure out how to play. That is a bit of a limitation and goes against my "low time investment" design goal.
Or, of course, you can just rip the stats off and use BRP or some other percentile system that you already know, instead of my own. Or even d20 with every stat divided by 5, rounded-down. That should work also. I'll probably add rules for conversion to BRP and some form of d20 at the end of the rulebook in fact.
Are there a lot other TTRPGs that have some software required to run them? Also this sounds like it would be fun to play based on these examples in the rules:
> Example 3: Brody declares his character's intent: "I want Wasp to display her stripes and scare the living beejeesus out of the Worker Bees! I want her to dive in towards them, buzzing menacingly and waving her abdomen around in, like, a threatening and provocative manner! I want them to run away screaming from buzzing, venomous DEATH! BzzZZZzzZZZZzz!"
> Example 4: Cody negotiates with the GQ: "But Wasp is Venomous so she can display her Stinger and maximise the intimidation of the Minor Termite Soldiers".
I wonder what the origin of the fd100 system is. I haven't heard of it before.
> Example 3: Brody declares his character's intent: "I want Wasp to display her stripes and scare the living beejeesus out of the Worker Bees! I want her to dive in towards them, buzzing menacingly and waving her abdomen around in, like, a threatening and provocative manner! I want them to run away screaming from buzzing, venomous DEATH! BzzZZZzzZZZZzz!"
> Example 4: Cody negotiates with the GQ: "But Wasp is Venomous so she can display her Stinger and maximise the intimidation of the Minor Termite Soldiers".
I wonder what the origin of the fd100 system is. I haven't heard of it before.
Thanks for reading my game! The fd100 system is mine, it's a riff off the d100 system popularised by Chaosium's Basic Role Play. It's my homebrew system that I've been tweaking for the last ten years or so, finally written down in all its crunchy glory!
The style of play is really up to the players. The mechanics don't encourage one style of play over another, except that "Dramatic modifiers" are awarded for creative and imaginative behaviour, described in sufficient detail.
>> Are there a lot other TTRPGs that have some software required to run them?
You mean less/more or a text editor? You don't strictly speaking need those to play the game - you could always print the rulebook and the character sheets out, and not have to use a computer at all. I'll make sure that this is easier to do in future versions (the page length is currently awkward for printing).
On the other hand, I've considered delegating the procedural generation of the Nest environment to software which would then be necessary to be able to play. I don't know how well that would work and I'm probably going with rules for table-top random generation after all. But I might end up doing both, as altrenatives.
The style of play is really up to the players. The mechanics don't encourage one style of play over another, except that "Dramatic modifiers" are awarded for creative and imaginative behaviour, described in sufficient detail.
>> Are there a lot other TTRPGs that have some software required to run them?
You mean less/more or a text editor? You don't strictly speaking need those to play the game - you could always print the rulebook and the character sheets out, and not have to use a computer at all. I'll make sure that this is easier to do in future versions (the page length is currently awkward for printing).
On the other hand, I've considered delegating the procedural generation of the Nest environment to software which would then be necessary to be able to play. I don't know how well that would work and I'm probably going with rules for table-top random generation after all. But I might end up doing both, as altrenatives.
The original 100+ years old solo edition [0] was way too absurd. This one finally seems playable.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Metamorphosis
The Metamorphosis as a Choose Your Own Adventure book. I love it! :D
> Nests & Insects is "Roguelike" because it borrows elements from Roguelike Computer RPGs (CRPGs): hack-and-slash, dungeon-crawling gameplay, with procedurally generated Nest environments, lethal combat, and a hunger mechanic.
Perhaps excepting procedural generation, all aspects are those Roguelikes took from TTRPGs… we’ve gone full circle
But ADnD was clearly best DnD, and roguelikes are clearly best CRPG (because they draw from best DnD) so you can’t go wrong with that
Perhaps excepting procedural generation, all aspects are those Roguelikes took from TTRPGs… we’ve gone full circle
But ADnD was clearly best DnD, and roguelikes are clearly best CRPG (because they draw from best DnD) so you can’t go wrong with that
>> Perhaps excepting procedural generation, all aspects are those Roguelikes
took from TTRPGs… we’ve gone full circle
Absolutely! I have some thoughts on this that haven't crystallised yet, but the gist of it is that computer Roguelikes like Nethack have basically preserved certain basal characteristics of a certain style of RPG design[1] that was popular around the '80s and that involved setting up the conditions for adventurer-style characters delving into dungeons to retrieve richess and getting killed often, and in horrible, but memorable ways.
Those "basal characteristics" are just the mechanics that enabled this style of play, primarily by necessity, because those are the mechanics that are relatively easy to implement on a computer and even _easier_ to implement on a computer. For example, roguelikes and later Computer RPGs (CRPGs) include mechanics for things like Hit Points, Experience Points, loot, encumberance and gold, that are bookeeping-intense and therefore tedious to have in a physical game.
In particular, my experience with mainly 3.5 ed. D&D was that combat was a matter of constant scratching and scrawling on character sheets to keep track of HP going up and down, as damage was dealt and healed, then followed by even more scratching and scrawling as XP were handed about and loot and gold was distributed at the end of an encounter.
I'm not critical of this style of play but I sure don't find the bookkeeping fun! It makes sense to do it with a computer, but in a physical game, it's a limitation to enjoyment that needs to be addressed. And I've sure tried to do that in Nests & Insects.
So I think I'm saying that what I mean by "Roguelike TTRPG" is really an attempt to port the gameplay of Roguelike CRPGs to the table, but without all the elements that would make a human feel like a computer (if that's not the conceit of the game, that is).
Oh, btw- procedural, or rather random, generation was with TTRPGs from the start. If I understand correctly, the first edition D&D books had random tables for wandering monster encounters and probably other such random tables also. So, I don't know, maybe the procedural generation is also something that CRPG Roguelikes took from TTRPGs...?
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[1] Note I'm saying "design" and not "play". I did not play back then so I don't know how those games were actually played. I also don't own and haven't really read many early-era RPGs so I'm largely speculating about the design elements, also.
Absolutely! I have some thoughts on this that haven't crystallised yet, but the gist of it is that computer Roguelikes like Nethack have basically preserved certain basal characteristics of a certain style of RPG design[1] that was popular around the '80s and that involved setting up the conditions for adventurer-style characters delving into dungeons to retrieve richess and getting killed often, and in horrible, but memorable ways.
Those "basal characteristics" are just the mechanics that enabled this style of play, primarily by necessity, because those are the mechanics that are relatively easy to implement on a computer and even _easier_ to implement on a computer. For example, roguelikes and later Computer RPGs (CRPGs) include mechanics for things like Hit Points, Experience Points, loot, encumberance and gold, that are bookeeping-intense and therefore tedious to have in a physical game.
In particular, my experience with mainly 3.5 ed. D&D was that combat was a matter of constant scratching and scrawling on character sheets to keep track of HP going up and down, as damage was dealt and healed, then followed by even more scratching and scrawling as XP were handed about and loot and gold was distributed at the end of an encounter.
I'm not critical of this style of play but I sure don't find the bookkeeping fun! It makes sense to do it with a computer, but in a physical game, it's a limitation to enjoyment that needs to be addressed. And I've sure tried to do that in Nests & Insects.
So I think I'm saying that what I mean by "Roguelike TTRPG" is really an attempt to port the gameplay of Roguelike CRPGs to the table, but without all the elements that would make a human feel like a computer (if that's not the conceit of the game, that is).
Oh, btw- procedural, or rather random, generation was with TTRPGs from the start. If I understand correctly, the first edition D&D books had random tables for wandering monster encounters and probably other such random tables also. So, I don't know, maybe the procedural generation is also something that CRPG Roguelikes took from TTRPGs...?
__________________
[1] Note I'm saying "design" and not "play". I did not play back then so I don't know how those games were actually played. I also don't own and haven't really read many early-era RPGs so I'm largely speculating about the design elements, also.
> Oh, btw- procedural, or rather random, generation was with TTRPGs from the start. If I understand correctly, the first edition D&D books had random tables for wandering monster encounters and probably other such random tables also. So, I don't know, maybe the procedural generation is also something that CRPG Roguelikes took from TTRPGs...?
I was thinking more along the lines of world gen, but I suppose at the end of the day it’s mostly implemented as more lookup tables with some noise in-between. In which case, it truly has gone full circle
> I'm not critical of this style of play but I sure don't find the bookkeeping fun! It makes sense to do it with a computer, but in a physical game, it's a limitation to enjoyment that needs to be addressed. And I've sure tried to do that in Nests & Insects.
Fully agreed. ADnD games I’ve played are much more in the “wing it” nature of combat; GM decides difficulty of the convoluted act you’ve described, and you roll… modern DnD has tried to manage the problem of the poor GM doing poor arbitration by standardizing values across the board, by paying the severe cost of enormous amounts of book-keeping. Ultimately if you assume a fair & competent judge, you only need the rough guidelines for effective play.
Roguelikes are also a little awkward to take example from as well because they’ve removed the “party” element of the TTRPG, and associated mechanics that actually force specialization and party inter-action, but it looks like you’ve reintroduced that appropriately.
I was thinking more along the lines of world gen, but I suppose at the end of the day it’s mostly implemented as more lookup tables with some noise in-between. In which case, it truly has gone full circle
> I'm not critical of this style of play but I sure don't find the bookkeeping fun! It makes sense to do it with a computer, but in a physical game, it's a limitation to enjoyment that needs to be addressed. And I've sure tried to do that in Nests & Insects.
Fully agreed. ADnD games I’ve played are much more in the “wing it” nature of combat; GM decides difficulty of the convoluted act you’ve described, and you roll… modern DnD has tried to manage the problem of the poor GM doing poor arbitration by standardizing values across the board, by paying the severe cost of enormous amounts of book-keeping. Ultimately if you assume a fair & competent judge, you only need the rough guidelines for effective play.
Roguelikes are also a little awkward to take example from as well because they’ve removed the “party” element of the TTRPG, and associated mechanics that actually force specialization and party inter-action, but it looks like you’ve reintroduced that appropriately.
Oh, right, that's true about the party. I somehow forgot about that- thanks for reminding me. Roguelikes are by default solo, aren't they?
In fact, just today I went and corrected the rulebook and the repo README to say that Nests & Insects is a game for _2_ to 7 players, not "1 to 7" as I had it before. There's no explicit solo mode.
>> In which case, it truly has gone full circle
It sure has! Not just with my game. I'm noticing more and more TTRPGs (particularly OSR ones) with a substantial element of procedural generation. And there's a whole bunch of gaming supplemenst that are literally just tables of randomly generated items, characters, names, locations, monsters... I think I even saw one book of randomly generated dungeon decorations? Like architectural elements, that sort of thing.
Well, I'm certainly trying to abstract and simplify the procedural generation as much as possible. It can easily become just another tedious exercise in bookkeeping.
In fact, just today I went and corrected the rulebook and the repo README to say that Nests & Insects is a game for _2_ to 7 players, not "1 to 7" as I had it before. There's no explicit solo mode.
>> In which case, it truly has gone full circle
It sure has! Not just with my game. I'm noticing more and more TTRPGs (particularly OSR ones) with a substantial element of procedural generation. And there's a whole bunch of gaming supplemenst that are literally just tables of randomly generated items, characters, names, locations, monsters... I think I even saw one book of randomly generated dungeon decorations? Like architectural elements, that sort of thing.
Well, I'm certainly trying to abstract and simplify the procedural generation as much as possible. It can easily become just another tedious exercise in bookkeeping.
Nests & Insects is a game for 1 to 7 players, one of which takes on the role of the Game Queen (GQ) and describes the game world to the other players. The players control characters who explore and interact with the game world. The players say what their characters do and roll dice to see what happens, then the GQ describes the results.
Players' characters are mercenary arthropods raiding a Nest on a Job from a rival Queen. Characters belong to one of six classes: Ants (plural), Beetle, Ladybug, Scorpion, Spider and Wasp, all modelled after real-world species. Nests are the nests of eusocial insects: Ants, Bees or Termites. The Job is to assasinate the Queen, or the King, or steal larvae, or aphids, or fungi, etc.
Nests & Insects is "Roguelike" because it borrows elements from Roguelike Computer RPGs (CRPGs): hack-and-slash, dungeon-crawling gameplay, with procedurally generated Nest environments, lethal combat, and a hunger mechanic.
The rulebook on the github repo above is all text-based, but formatted with ASCII borders, text boxes and tables, etc. I wrote a bit of code to automate the layouting (if that's a word). You can find the code in the codez/ directory in the repo. You don't need to mess with the code to play the game, but some of you might want to eyeball the raw text with LaTex-like markup under the directory /game/rulebook/raw and then look at the layouting code. Or you might want to tweak the characters' stats under codez/data/, or make your own characters. The code is all in Prolog :)
Nests & Insects is still a work in progress. The rulebook is about 60% complete. There's rules for rolling dice (oo lots of dice!), action resolution, combat and stats for all six character classes and a few enemies (just Termites). If you've run a few TTRPGs you can probably bash together a quick game session, although there's plenty of stuff missing (Items, procedural generation, other minigames besides combat etc).
I'm posting here because I'm eager for some feedback and because I'm hoping to build a small community around the game. I'm in the liminal space between finishing my thesis and actually getting a PhD so I have some spare time, but I plan to keep working on the game until it's finished, anyway.
Also: I'm looking for ANSI or ASCII art for the rulebook. Anyone know anybody who would want to contribute, please get us in touch.
Have fun!