Ask HN: Potentially destroyed my career. Now what?
18 comments
I joined a company that claimed to be awesome only to be laid off within the year. It's weird to think this, but the layoff was not a surprise and it was kind of emotionally gratifying. There were a great many warning signs of impending doom screaming at me from the background suggesting either team/product failure or eventual job termination.
My learnings from that last job that I will carry forward to my next interviews are:
* How do you conduct test automation?
* What is the standard process to manage risks for a refactor?
* How would you describe the central architecture of your primary application? (I expect to hear about a few deliberate decisions, not something about a framework or obscure business logic isolation)
* When a defect arises is the solution or code location expected to come from memory, as in will I be expected to memorize a significant majority of the code base?
* How do you monitor for regression?
* Will I be expected to regularly manually copy code from one environment to another?
* How do you make determinations about performance? (I don't want to hear some nonsense about doing it one way because JavaScript, or whatever, is slow when you have measured neither approach and especially when you have no idea how one or both approaches actually work)
If the employer cannot answer most of these questions there are only two options:
1) Empower you to address these concerns
2) Don't work there. I would rather change careers than be hired as a senior, treated like child, and then get punished for the result.
My learnings from that last job that I will carry forward to my next interviews are:
* How do you conduct test automation?
* What is the standard process to manage risks for a refactor?
* How would you describe the central architecture of your primary application? (I expect to hear about a few deliberate decisions, not something about a framework or obscure business logic isolation)
* When a defect arises is the solution or code location expected to come from memory, as in will I be expected to memorize a significant majority of the code base?
* How do you monitor for regression?
* Will I be expected to regularly manually copy code from one environment to another?
* How do you make determinations about performance? (I don't want to hear some nonsense about doing it one way because JavaScript, or whatever, is slow when you have measured neither approach and especially when you have no idea how one or both approaches actually work)
If the employer cannot answer most of these questions there are only two options:
1) Empower you to address these concerns
2) Don't work there. I would rather change careers than be hired as a senior, treated like child, and then get punished for the result.
Great questions. I wish I could answer them here, but especially #1 and #6 will chance me being identified, and this company is so interesting they include like 5-6 different versions of "Non-disparagement Agreements" in the offer letter. Should have been a red flag for me.
If you or your team are providing something original, such as solving a new technology problem or providing a wildly superior solution to an existing technology problem, it can be stressful. Other stresses are the result of some combination of bad leadership and/or unqualified developers.
I don't think you've ruined anything long-term because the situation sounds like a nightmare and is easily explained if someone honestly cares. Nothing sounds like a failure on your part.
Leaving sounds like the best option particularly if people are ending up in hospital in the current environment!
Leaving sounds like the best option particularly if people are ending up in hospital in the current environment!
Agreed, even if you sign an NDA, I think that you can realistically communicate that "I was misrepresented the truth" to other employers and they would understand
Even though you did your due diligence, this situation is where the phrase "That job was not a good fit for me" is applicable. Since you've been at your current job less than 90 days, there is also the option of simply not mentioning it on future job applications.
Yeah, if you're worried about how the short tenure will look on a resume, just dropping it off is acceptable. It'll be easy to explain that it was a total mess if an interviewer asks about the gap, and shouldn't be a large enough gap to raise red flags during the resume stage—you could've just decided to take a sabbatical for all they know.
People leave FAANG to try a startup all the time, and most startups don't work out.
People leave FAANG to try a startup all the time, and most startups don't work out.
It's not going to hurt you much, if at all.
Unlike other posters, I'd advise leaving it on your resume. Leaving it off could be seen as lying, if discovered, and you don't want that. Instead, stick it out another three months. If it still is a bad fit (and it likely will be) then jump ship. You will have been there six months. You can give a reason for leaving as 'I didn't like how they treated my team, and realized the job did not align with my goals or personality'. If this is your only 6 month term of employment you'll be fine.
Unlike other posters, I'd advise leaving it on your resume. Leaving it off could be seen as lying, if discovered, and you don't want that. Instead, stick it out another three months. If it still is a bad fit (and it likely will be) then jump ship. You will have been there six months. You can give a reason for leaving as 'I didn't like how they treated my team, and realized the job did not align with my goals or personality'. If this is your only 6 month term of employment you'll be fine.
Yes this would be my only "ultra-short" term, I had 1.5-2 year stints before (many startups) but this is an exception. The reason you suggest is actually true, so I wouldn't even have to lie. People are going to the ER for ulcers.
The company I work for is hiring a lot of software devs. If you (or anyone else) want me to put in your resume and you've got some good experience, then DM me a link to your resume via @BillBarnhill on mastodon.social. This is defense contracting, so I'm not going to submit your resume if you have a felony conviction in your past, do drugs currently, or are neurodiverse in a way not approved of by the federal gov. I personally don't care, but the gov. does, and will find out (worst thing you can do trying to get a job there is lie on your clearance forms). You also shouldn't apply if you are not comfortable making weapon systems for the gov. If you are good, well, I've managed to never work on an actual weapon system in 20 years of contracting.
40%...Ride that horse right into the ground. You can keep learning on your own, nothing prevents that. As a matter of fact start kissing ass and embracing their ways/culture, be a team player, agree with everything, you could climb the ladder and double/triple your salary. After spending decades in the Industry, I've learned all that is important is earning as much as you can. At the end of the day it's all that matters and no one will give a shit about any of your accomplishments.
This is an interesting perspective. Do you easily detach from work at the end of the day? Like many others, I built my life around the "hard-working immigrant" trop but I also really love tech.
On the train today, though, I found myself thinking a bit along your lines - "who the hell cares that I solved a tough problem for company X in 2005. Company has gone bankrupt in 2011". It may as well be the healthiest way to go about it.
On the train today, though, I found myself thinking a bit along your lines - "who the hell cares that I solved a tough problem for company X in 2005. Company has gone bankrupt in 2011". It may as well be the healthiest way to go about it.
I did a web search on "great reasons why i left a job". You have strong reasons for leaving with self and family intact. At a much lower level, I watched my team being dismantled until I ended up
re-doing everything that the remaining incompetents did, and looking back, I see where "good" stress helped me do great things, whereas "bad" stress led to really dumb unforced errors.
I am sure you can find excellent, valid reasons for leaving. You want to win for self, family and work team.
I am sure you can find excellent, valid reasons for leaving. You want to win for self, family and work team.
It seems you have a perfect excuse for the short period.
"Relocated, family were unhappy, have made a difficult decision for my family's sake."
"Relocated, family were unhappy, have made a difficult decision for my family's sake."
Down on your luck? Are you sleeping on a subway grate and your kids eating ramen noodles 3 meals a day? No?
People make bad career choices like this every day. I started reading this thinking you took a dump in your boss' wastebasket or something equally outrageous. Imagine my disappointment.
I am having difficulty empathizing with this story.
A mere bump in the road. Have another cup of coffee and move on.
People make bad career choices like this every day. I started reading this thinking you took a dump in your boss' wastebasket or something equally outrageous. Imagine my disappointment.
I am having difficulty empathizing with this story.
A mere bump in the road. Have another cup of coffee and move on.
Your response is what is called the fallacy of the relative privation. But I did laugh at the taking a shit at my boss' desk. I might do that then update the thread and maybe I'll get you to empathize then.
I don't think a short tenure at a job that's bad will hurt you.
Even when you look at some ~2 year ones before? I did too many startups.
Relocated with family and now I am deeply regretful. New place is rich but a total clusterfuck, complete with one-liner people evaluations ("Low throughput", PIP), SDEs getting sick due to stress, a reorg on my first week cutting 80% of my team (now I'm down to KTLO subsistence budget and having to jump in as SDE as well), and there's more but if I elaborate, I will be identified, probably.
I did thorough research before joining, going as far as interviewing other joiners who assured me it was an immature but responsible company. The org chart presented to me was entirely false (impossible for me to know beforehand) and the way of working was also misrepresented grossly (again, can't elaborate because it's very specific to this company).
Now I am at a strange place with family and down on my luck. Yes, I am well paid but with this kind of leadership, it's bound to be short-lived as well. I would be laughing at myself few years back, would take it on the chin and move on, but with family, I can't.
My options are: to suck it up - in which case I probably blew up my career since I'm learning nothing and they refuse to believe their way of working is wrong, even with developers hitting hospitals and asking for leave of absence; change teams (though I heard most teams are like this anyway); resign at the end of probation (90 days) and try to relocate back - I'd have to pay back all relocation benefits, and I doubt any company would take me seriously leaving FAANG to join a company for 90 days then applying again - as I said above about 50% of my career is 2 year tenure (startups, exits, bankruptcies, etc.) so doing this ultra-short tenure will definitely hurt my ability to get another job.
Apologies for not elaborating more or using a "stream-of-consciousness" writing style - I guess it conveys adequately my state of mind after having made this massive unforced error. I can give more details for good advice in return.