God Is Dead So They Are Building a New One(thealgorithmicbridge.substack.com)
thealgorithmicbridge.substack.com
God Is Dead So They Are Building a New One
https://thealgorithmicbridge.substack.com/p/god-is-dead-so-they-are-building
76 comments
> What is new are all the people who are just learning about it and think they have new ideas.
While I really appreciate it when people like to educate when things are not actually new, I'd say leave this sort of tone checked. It doesn't help your cause at all.
While I really appreciate it when people like to educate when things are not actually new, I'd say leave this sort of tone checked. It doesn't help your cause at all.
The tone is fine, in my opinion. It’s funny because new people working on old problems without knowing they’re old problems is itself not a new phenomenon by any means.
You’re right and I agree it’s not ideal tone. I’ll leave it for posterity but it does get frustrating.
Imagine how Jurgen feels :/
Imagine how Jurgen feels :/
I had an illuminating thought the other day. The AI race need not march further than AGI. A form of AGI is speed super intelligence, that is human intellectual capacity but better performance or cheaper energy cost.
We need to treat possibility as eventuality for preparedness sake: the ultra wealthy could in theory execute a coup against the rest of humanity. They could also retreat into bunkers with suitable farming capacity, while their silicon business operations continue on. The rest of us are out of work, and if the bureaucracy gets respected out of homes. If farmland gets bought up by the ultra wealthy, the plan could be to subvert climate change by allowing billions to die.
In the end, you’re going to foot the bill of aristocracy unless you rise up and demand a stake at the table or ensure the downfall of everything today.
Life is in fact a giant strategy game because it can be and because it is the governing dynamic at the highest level, so play or lose.
We need to treat possibility as eventuality for preparedness sake: the ultra wealthy could in theory execute a coup against the rest of humanity. They could also retreat into bunkers with suitable farming capacity, while their silicon business operations continue on. The rest of us are out of work, and if the bureaucracy gets respected out of homes. If farmland gets bought up by the ultra wealthy, the plan could be to subvert climate change by allowing billions to die.
In the end, you’re going to foot the bill of aristocracy unless you rise up and demand a stake at the table or ensure the downfall of everything today.
Life is in fact a giant strategy game because it can be and because it is the governing dynamic at the highest level, so play or lose.
'Stake' as in to roast the rich on a spit, and eat them?
Celeb Teriyaki? Prom Tikka? Bunker Hunker BBQ?
Celeb Teriyaki? Prom Tikka? Bunker Hunker BBQ?
“we will control the superintelligence and it will serve us.”
That is not optimism, that just sounds contradictory. The only thing that could stop that immortal superintelligence from use us as lubricating oil maintainers til end of the days will be to cross fingers, and that certainly sounds religious.
Perhaps could be avoided persuading such intelligence to respect an equality of rights between us, or similar. Therefore, forget about your cheap servant. Since then, to try til the end of the days to don't make doubt that intelligence about our intentions.
I do not expect the artificial intelligence in this century, given the current state, nevertheless the constant pursuing for to bring it to life will success at that time.
And this success will not be shown as human intelligence, it will be like if it were an alien intelligence, nevertheless such intelligence will find easy to understand us due our simplicity and that will be feed with all our patterns.
I have no interest in to be there when happens.
And I guess there is no stop, humanity is this stupid; even if it is prohibited will be someone experimenting for feeding egos.
That is not optimism, that just sounds contradictory. The only thing that could stop that immortal superintelligence from use us as lubricating oil maintainers til end of the days will be to cross fingers, and that certainly sounds religious.
Perhaps could be avoided persuading such intelligence to respect an equality of rights between us, or similar. Therefore, forget about your cheap servant. Since then, to try til the end of the days to don't make doubt that intelligence about our intentions.
I do not expect the artificial intelligence in this century, given the current state, nevertheless the constant pursuing for to bring it to life will success at that time.
And this success will not be shown as human intelligence, it will be like if it were an alien intelligence, nevertheless such intelligence will find easy to understand us due our simplicity and that will be feed with all our patterns.
I have no interest in to be there when happens.
And I guess there is no stop, humanity is this stupid; even if it is prohibited will be someone experimenting for feeding egos.
CEO: Well yes, Crapcorp is developing this great world-destroying button, but we put a "do not push" sign on it, so it's totally safe and... wait, who pushed it?
Voice from beyond: I DID.
CEO: Ahaha, early prototype; fortunately we built in a fail safe reset sequence if I just
<disintegrates into dust>
Voice from beyond: I DID.
CEO: Ahaha, early prototype; fortunately we built in a fail safe reset sequence if I just
<disintegrates into dust>
Reminds me of scenario where certain countries worked on enhancing various viruses to make them more dangerous.
Naah it will be fine. We Control it.
Naah it will be fine. We Control it.
You know you went off the deep end if you don't build tech anymore for the knowledge end understanding can provide, and not even for the utility value but because you see the technology itself as an end that overrides all other goals.
Yeah, but this one won't be three priests standing on each others' shoulders in a trench coat.
I was never a fan of the priests, but I’m not convinced a bunch of processors and RAM standing on each other’s shoulders in a data center, controlled by accelerationists, is going to be better.
It'll be a team of moderators filtering through the output, making sure God doesn't say anything bad.
So nothing new.
Done correctly, we have the opportunity to create something that can answer any questions we have, provide solutions to problems that we cannot and manage for us essentially all of the tedious and monotonous aspects of life.
How isn't that what we ought to do? We will have so much more time to be human in a world ran by AI.
A humanity free from bullshit is a humanity truly capable of anything.
How isn't that what we ought to do? We will have so much more time to be human in a world ran by AI.
A humanity free from bullshit is a humanity truly capable of anything.
> We will have so much more time to be human in a world ran by AI.
What does it mean “to be human”? What will it mean to be human when the things that quintessentially make up the human condition are being handled by an AI?
People talk about these rosy futures involving loads of free time waiting for us when AI takes over, but is that what anyone actually wants? Will people find purpose with all of this time to “be human”?
And an AI taking over certainly does not free humanity from bullshit. At best, it frees up potential bandwidth. But we’ve been freeing humanity from “bullshit” for decades/centuries now, and as a species, we haven’t shown a tendency to use that freed time well.
I’m not against advancing technology, but I don’t think we have any reason to believe in these kinds of utopian visions.
What does it mean “to be human”? What will it mean to be human when the things that quintessentially make up the human condition are being handled by an AI?
People talk about these rosy futures involving loads of free time waiting for us when AI takes over, but is that what anyone actually wants? Will people find purpose with all of this time to “be human”?
And an AI taking over certainly does not free humanity from bullshit. At best, it frees up potential bandwidth. But we’ve been freeing humanity from “bullshit” for decades/centuries now, and as a species, we haven’t shown a tendency to use that freed time well.
I’m not against advancing technology, but I don’t think we have any reason to believe in these kinds of utopian visions.
This comment reminded me of the saying that "the idle mind is the devil's workshop" (which I'm not sure about the origin of). I more frequently do things that are stupid and which I regret when I'm bored and have free time so at least this one person here relates to it.
I suspect the origin is Proverbs 16:27 - "Idle hands are the devil's workshop; idle lips are his mouthpiece."
I'm currently on a work sabbatical, and while it has been great, I reached a point when I had to start actively scheduling and doing things or I'd go a bit crazy. I think that having time to be bored is great, and really healthy for awhile. But having a core thing to return to, whatever that is, seems really critical.
I'm sure humanity could adapt, but would need time to adjust to the new reality.
I'm currently on a work sabbatical, and while it has been great, I reached a point when I had to start actively scheduling and doing things or I'd go a bit crazy. I think that having time to be bored is great, and really healthy for awhile. But having a core thing to return to, whatever that is, seems really critical.
I'm sure humanity could adapt, but would need time to adjust to the new reality.
> Done correctly
History, unfortunately, shows this rarely, if ever, to be this case. Every utopian ideal of the 20th century ended in mass murder, world war, or totalitarianism, and the more pragmatic ones (e.g. liberal democracy) are struggling desperately to survive. One only need to consider the current political state of the two most powerful countries in the world developing AI (the US and China), to not take such a Panglossian view of how it will be used.
History, unfortunately, shows this rarely, if ever, to be this case. Every utopian ideal of the 20th century ended in mass murder, world war, or totalitarianism, and the more pragmatic ones (e.g. liberal democracy) are struggling desperately to survive. One only need to consider the current political state of the two most powerful countries in the world developing AI (the US and China), to not take such a Panglossian view of how it will be used.
Step 1: Assume a utopia.
> A humanity free from bullshit is a humanity truly capable of anything.
Ironically, AI has been feeding us more bullshit then I've ever seen. I'm excited to see what things will look like when all the AI "gurus" and prompt "engineers" get off this train and move on to some other hype.
Ironically, AI has been feeding us more bullshit then I've ever seen. I'm excited to see what things will look like when all the AI "gurus" and prompt "engineers" get off this train and move on to some other hype.
In theory it threatens the power structure of the world, especially as we cede control of government and administrative functions to it. An impartial, incorruptible force is terrifying to a lot of folks.
More terrifying: A force that is supposed to be impartial and incorruptible, but someone finds the right lever to corrupt it.
(Before you say "that can't happen", the AGI is going to run on some hardware. Someone is going to have access to that hardware. For that matter, someone is going to write the program, and supply the training data, and do the testing.)
(Before you say "that can't happen", the AGI is going to run on some hardware. Someone is going to have access to that hardware. For that matter, someone is going to write the program, and supply the training data, and do the testing.)
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One of the most fundamental aspects of being human is overcoming adversity. I don't want to live in a world that's perfect.
"Man wishes concord; but Nature knows better what is good for the race; she wills discord. He wishes to live comfortably and pleasantly; Nature wills that he should be plunged from sloth and passive contentment into labor and trouble, in order that he may find means of extricating himself from them. The natural urges to this, the sources of unsociableness and mutual opposition from which so many evils arise, drive men to new exertions of their forces and thus to the manifold development of their capacities."
- Immanuel Kant on how adversities often develop our skills and enhance our capacities
- Immanuel Kant on how adversities often develop our skills and enhance our capacities
Don't worry, when AI comes after you you'll have all the adversity you'll ever dream of.
Even if a machine could generate correct answers, that's only part of the problem: humans will largely reject them.
If it worked like that, then sure, why not.
In watching the internet come into being and become what it is today, I assume that it will be abused and misused significantly. The idea of weaponizing misinformation wasn't on my bingo card, so I'm much more cynical now.
In watching the internet come into being and become what it is today, I assume that it will be abused and misused significantly. The idea of weaponizing misinformation wasn't on my bingo card, so I'm much more cynical now.
Well spoken, Cyber-Leader. We shall be upgraded.
[deleted]
This is the original goal of making machines and has been the assumed desire path since before even Joseph Schumpeter had anything to say about it.
Keynes et al assumed that humanity would align around machines to literally eliminate human labor.
Those of us that have been obsessed with AI since we were toddlers have been literally talking about this since day one
Welcome to the party everyone
Keynes et al assumed that humanity would align around machines to literally eliminate human labor.
Those of us that have been obsessed with AI since we were toddlers have been literally talking about this since day one
Welcome to the party everyone
> to literally eliminate human labor
In a manner of speaking, of course.
In a manner of speaking, of course.
I mean “AI” kills people all the time
The endgame in many long range cruise missiles are based on computer vision systems
Here’s the tomahawk specifically: https://secwww.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/Content/techdigest/pdf/...
I personally witnessed tomahawk used extensively throughout the GWOT
You just rarely hear about it
The endgame in many long range cruise missiles are based on computer vision systems
Here’s the tomahawk specifically: https://secwww.jhuapl.edu/techdigest/Content/techdigest/pdf/...
I personally witnessed tomahawk used extensively throughout the GWOT
You just rarely hear about it
Do you honestly think more technology is the answer? Look at how far we’ve come with technology and how happy we really are as individuals.
Whether it’s the answer or not, technology will never not evolve; I find its best to learn to work with it and not against it.
Stuff like that makes me gain sympathy for the luddites. Wasn't the purpose of technology always to solve human problems? This is more akin to seeing technology as some sort of mystical independent force that we have to obey and be glad if it occasionally solves problems.
The former is making a fire to heat your home, the latter is the mindset of a pyromaniac.
The former is making a fire to heat your home, the latter is the mindset of a pyromaniac.
> technology will never not evolve
It is certainly possible that humanity meets some obstacle short of AGI, or civilization collapses to the point that no further technological development is possible.
It is certainly possible that humanity meets some obstacle short of AGI, or civilization collapses to the point that no further technological development is possible.
Technology will always evolve, but it might evolve back to knapping flint and starting fires with sticks.
I feel like I've been in some dark places with technology and at present am in a pretty good place with it, personally anyway. But, societies move slower than people and there's always the chance the rock bottom that teaches you the lesson kills you, so it's not necessarily a rosy outcome - but I don't know how we pump the breaks at this point. We also have an extraordinary amount of greed gremlins acting in bad faith out there that make it difficult to do things.
Happiness is relative but we are more healthy, live longer, have better tools, are generally more free as citizens, vastly more so if you have a disability or are old.
The number of people who own their own homes is going down. The number of unmarried people is going up. It's hard to measure, but it feels like people are more micromanaged and have less autonomy in their jobs.
Are we really more free?
Are we really more free?
Americans are not healthier; they are more obese and are losing life expectancy.
I am alive because of technology, so every time I laugh it’s technically because of technology.
Besides what makes me unhappy is frequently people not technology.
Besides what makes me unhappy is frequently people not technology.
> You will have your God. And you will make Him by your own hand.
Deus Ex (2000)
Deus Ex (2000)
I wonder what will be the penalties for blaspheming the AI god.
Show HN: How I achieved 10,000,000 rosaries per second with Rust
Don't know how will be but I know how it is right now. Downvotes. Current god that you're not allowed to blaspheme against on HN is Rust. Try to tell Rust is just a shitty upgrade over C/C++ and you get downvoted to oblivion on HN. Watch how this comment will get downvoted as well.
The AI god will actually be able to keep track of who’s blaspheming thanks to all the surveillance we live under.
George Orwell would shake his head at how the lack of ambition Big Brother showed
George Orwell would shake his head at how the lack of ambition Big Brother showed
It makes little difference whether AGI can be controlled. That question only matters to 0.01% of humanity. The rest are replaced wholly regardless.
What do you mean be replaced wholly?
Robots will be the ones getting stuck in traffic and buying groceries, having picnics and getting married. And we'll be dead.
There is no need for workers if there is no work.
Do you see many horses around?
Do you see many horses around?
The tv show Person of Interest was great in this regard.
how are y'all reacting to this paywalled article?
Is everyone here subscribed to this person's Substack? Are we discussing just the first part of the article?
Is everyone here subscribed to this person's Substack? Are we discussing just the first part of the article?
I came here looking for the full text and found none. Maybe our fellow commenters are LLMs fine tuned on pre-2023 HN comments?
This is a disgusting affront to every sensibility. We made this so we're going to worship it?
Atheism is more sensible and that's saying something.
Edit: offended an AIist clearly.
Atheism is more sensible and that's saying something.
Edit: offended an AIist clearly.
If anything, science has proved God is alive more than anything before. Let’s look at chaos and constants alone.
The universe is mostly dead. What exists degrades in all kinds of ways. Science’s best theories of creation are driven by randomness. Yet, all the Big Bang’s and chaotic systems we make produce exactly zero design. All the systems we build take effort to fight against nature to even run, degrade over time, and break down. Empirically, that’s what we should expect of the universe’s machinery.
Then, we look at the universe to find it has dozens of laws and components that stay constant in form. They never fail. They’re more precise than anything humans can create. They work together in a precise way, too, with protocols that also never fail. Our human life on this planet depends on basically all of them. Empirically, they look like a designer of unimaginable knowledge and power both precisely designed them and maintains them. That’s God.
From there, we look at testimony since our knowledge is mostly built on that anyway. Many claim to have heard from God. One book, the Bible, came with specific prophecies that were fulfilled (eg Israel being recreated), medical knowledge, miracles that repeat everywhere it goes (one saved me), life transformations, and answered prayers. They start when we believe in Jesus who died for our sins and rose again with more historical testimony than about anyone else.
Most things need to be changed to market to their audience. The few beliefs that went global fed people’s egos (do the right works) or spread by the sword. The Gospel of Jesus Christ reached several thousand people groups in around 200 countries despite no changes in the message. It did this while saying we can’t save ourselves but only Christ can save us.
So, we have a universe that looks designed, only a revelation can lead us to the designer, Christ confirmed He is by conquering death, and His Word is the most proven with the widest impact on people. God is very alive and you can know Him personally if you repent and believe in Christ. You will live forever, too.
The universe is mostly dead. What exists degrades in all kinds of ways. Science’s best theories of creation are driven by randomness. Yet, all the Big Bang’s and chaotic systems we make produce exactly zero design. All the systems we build take effort to fight against nature to even run, degrade over time, and break down. Empirically, that’s what we should expect of the universe’s machinery.
Then, we look at the universe to find it has dozens of laws and components that stay constant in form. They never fail. They’re more precise than anything humans can create. They work together in a precise way, too, with protocols that also never fail. Our human life on this planet depends on basically all of them. Empirically, they look like a designer of unimaginable knowledge and power both precisely designed them and maintains them. That’s God.
From there, we look at testimony since our knowledge is mostly built on that anyway. Many claim to have heard from God. One book, the Bible, came with specific prophecies that were fulfilled (eg Israel being recreated), medical knowledge, miracles that repeat everywhere it goes (one saved me), life transformations, and answered prayers. They start when we believe in Jesus who died for our sins and rose again with more historical testimony than about anyone else.
Most things need to be changed to market to their audience. The few beliefs that went global fed people’s egos (do the right works) or spread by the sword. The Gospel of Jesus Christ reached several thousand people groups in around 200 countries despite no changes in the message. It did this while saying we can’t save ourselves but only Christ can save us.
So, we have a universe that looks designed, only a revelation can lead us to the designer, Christ confirmed He is by conquering death, and His Word is the most proven with the widest impact on people. God is very alive and you can know Him personally if you repent and believe in Christ. You will live forever, too.
> It did this while saying we can’t save ourselves but only Christ can save us.
Somehow there is only one species in Kingdom Animalia that goes to heaven. We are like dust in universe but somehow Jesus loves you.
Somehow there is only one species in Kingdom Animalia that goes to heaven. We are like dust in universe but somehow Jesus loves you.
When humans create movies, they often build a set whose universe has an age, specific laws, all kinds of creatures, a history, and so on. Yet, they created it in a few days to months. They did so to tell a specific story. They will focus on what is central to the purpose of the movie, like specific creations (characters). The creators and those closest to them reap most of the rewards, too.
Likewise, God said He made this world in six days to show who He is (His attributes) and have a relationship with us. He describes those who put trust in Christ as adopted sons and daughters who are a “treasured possession” (ESV). He will preserve us forever to worship Him and so He can lavish His love on us. He can’t help but do that as source of all love.
Unlike the animals, we were made in His image. He gave us morals, free will, and the highest intelligence (power). We were to love Him first and each other. So much higher than animals. He owes us absolutely nothing. He’s simply gracious. He makes it rain on the just and the unjust alike.
Yet, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Every human has used their power for evil repeatedly in their lives while turning on their eternal creator. Evil can’t be allowed in heaven. God is justified in putting them in a lake of fire where the smoke of our torment goes up forever and ever.
Then, we get to the story all creation is to tell. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. There’s no greater love than laying down your life for another. God took flesh, lived like us tempted in every way without sin, died for people that still hated Him, and told us to bring His message to His lost children. He wants them back and to be with Him forever.
Even as you mock Him, He gave you breath to do that. Even though He’s hated and mocked on our screens, Christ still sends His Gospel out of love for you. Even though we’re still sinners and selfish humans, the Spirit of God makes us love you enough to put down our tech toys and try to carry His message to you so you don’t burn forever. And keep doing that for new people after people spit on us, fire us, call the cops, etc.
Christ must love you. Will you repent and believe in and love Him back? I put before you life and death. Choose life.
Likewise, God said He made this world in six days to show who He is (His attributes) and have a relationship with us. He describes those who put trust in Christ as adopted sons and daughters who are a “treasured possession” (ESV). He will preserve us forever to worship Him and so He can lavish His love on us. He can’t help but do that as source of all love.
Unlike the animals, we were made in His image. He gave us morals, free will, and the highest intelligence (power). We were to love Him first and each other. So much higher than animals. He owes us absolutely nothing. He’s simply gracious. He makes it rain on the just and the unjust alike.
Yet, all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Every human has used their power for evil repeatedly in their lives while turning on their eternal creator. Evil can’t be allowed in heaven. God is justified in putting them in a lake of fire where the smoke of our torment goes up forever and ever.
Then, we get to the story all creation is to tell. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. There’s no greater love than laying down your life for another. God took flesh, lived like us tempted in every way without sin, died for people that still hated Him, and told us to bring His message to His lost children. He wants them back and to be with Him forever.
Even as you mock Him, He gave you breath to do that. Even though He’s hated and mocked on our screens, Christ still sends His Gospel out of love for you. Even though we’re still sinners and selfish humans, the Spirit of God makes us love you enough to put down our tech toys and try to carry His message to you so you don’t burn forever. And keep doing that for new people after people spit on us, fire us, call the cops, etc.
Christ must love you. Will you repent and believe in and love Him back? I put before you life and death. Choose life.
Great post, it's a shame the fedora tippers of HN can't handle it.
KRAKEN UNSER.
ICH CHILLE UND SEHE.
WIE IM HIMMEL, SO AUF ERDEN.
MEIN IST DIE LAICH, UND DER SAFT.
JETZT UND IN KLEBRIGKEIT.
SAMEN!
ICH CHILLE UND SEHE.
WIE IM HIMMEL, SO AUF ERDEN.
MEIN IST DIE LAICH, UND DER SAFT.
JETZT UND IN KLEBRIGKEIT.
SAMEN!
God isn’t real.
Imagine denying a free gift of eternal life from an all power deity that loves you.
NGMI
At least I’m not delusional.
And a fedora tip to you.
You might want to update your definition of hipster.
God loves you so much he let's you hate him. Keep denying your creator at your peril.
> Typical hat tipper reply: "If He LoVeS mE , tHeN hE wOuLdN'T sEnD mE tO hElL"
He loves you so much that he wants you to come to him not by force and will let you go to hell willingly because YOU think it's better than loving your creator.
Don't forget that.
> Typical hat tipper reply: "If He LoVeS mE , tHeN hE wOuLdN'T sEnD mE tO hElL"
He loves you so much that he wants you to come to him not by force and will let you go to hell willingly because YOU think it's better than loving your creator.
Don't forget that.
As a reminder, here’s the proposal for the 1956 Dartmouth Workshop on Artificial Inelligence:
We propose that a 2-month, 10-man study of artificial intelligence be carried out during the summer of 1956 at Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire. The study is to proceed on the basis of the conjecture that every aspect of learning or any other feature of intelligence can in principle be so precisely described that a machine can be made to simulate it. An attempt will be made to find how to make machines use language, form abstractions and concepts, solve kinds of problems now reserved for humans, and improve themselves. We think that a significant advance can be made in one or more of these problems if a carefully selected group of scientists work on it together for a summer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_workshop