Cost of employer-sponsored health insurance is flattening worker wages(medicalxpress.com)
medicalxpress.com
Cost of employer-sponsored health insurance is flattening worker wages
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-01-employer-sponsored-health-flattening-worker.html
57 comments
... but it's not like they're just stealing the money from you, you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value. There's another story going around that if you add benefits like health insurance not to mention programs like food stamps the gap between rich and poor hasn't increased as much as you'd think otherwise.
But you have to be really careful to not confuse the 'value' of healthcare with the cost of healthcare.
- If my health insurance lists a benefit value of $1500/mo for PrEP, and has a sticker price of $500/mo in other countries (and out-of-pocket might be $15-$60), is the "value" of the care I receive 3x greater than that received by a similar person in Belgium? Is it 25x the value of the same care received by someone in Ireland?
- If the healthcare I receive includes GP visits needed to get a referral to a specialist to satisfy my insurance co, or extra tests to convince them that a procedure is necessary, is that "value" that I received?
- If 20-30% of healthcare costs are billing and administration, is that "value"?
Our employers aren't just stealing this money from us, but for-profit healthcare providers and health insurance companies and pharmacy benefit manager companies creating inefficiency to their benefit and to the harm of patients.
https://www.thebody.com/article/what-does-prep-cost-outside-...
- If my health insurance lists a benefit value of $1500/mo for PrEP, and has a sticker price of $500/mo in other countries (and out-of-pocket might be $15-$60), is the "value" of the care I receive 3x greater than that received by a similar person in Belgium? Is it 25x the value of the same care received by someone in Ireland?
- If the healthcare I receive includes GP visits needed to get a referral to a specialist to satisfy my insurance co, or extra tests to convince them that a procedure is necessary, is that "value" that I received?
- If 20-30% of healthcare costs are billing and administration, is that "value"?
Our employers aren't just stealing this money from us, but for-profit healthcare providers and health insurance companies and pharmacy benefit manager companies creating inefficiency to their benefit and to the harm of patients.
https://www.thebody.com/article/what-does-prep-cost-outside-...
> But you have to be really careful to not confuse the 'value' of healthcare with the cost of healthcare.
Do you? Regardless of the price in other countries or what processes are currently “required”, there’s the price you have to pay. If you are going to buy a car, you either “value” it at or above the price you pay, or you don’t buy it. Why is healthcare different?
Do you? Regardless of the price in other countries or what processes are currently “required”, there’s the price you have to pay. If you are going to buy a car, you either “value” it at or above the price you pay, or you don’t buy it. Why is healthcare different?
Healthcare isn't _intrinsically_ different, but it's a really distorted market.
Americans don't "value" their health 2x more than people in other developed countries. But Americans pay more for worse outcomes. It's silly to say that our worse-performing, often racist, hostile-to-the-poor healthcare system is providing "more value" just because corporate interests have aligned to price it higher.
If I live in a company town where my employer owns the water supply, and tells me that the 'cost' of that water has increased by some enormous multiple, and now they'll pay me a 'water benefit' in lieu of compensation increases, it would be absurd to say if I'm doing the same work, consuming the same amount of water, and getting the same pay, that my company is suddenly providing me "more value" just because it has declared that the cost of the same amount of water is higher.
Americans don't "value" their health 2x more than people in other developed countries. But Americans pay more for worse outcomes. It's silly to say that our worse-performing, often racist, hostile-to-the-poor healthcare system is providing "more value" just because corporate interests have aligned to price it higher.
If I live in a company town where my employer owns the water supply, and tells me that the 'cost' of that water has increased by some enormous multiple, and now they'll pay me a 'water benefit' in lieu of compensation increases, it would be absurd to say if I'm doing the same work, consuming the same amount of water, and getting the same pay, that my company is suddenly providing me "more value" just because it has declared that the cost of the same amount of water is higher.
I value the healthcare I’ve received recently more than the price I’ve paid for it.
That’s not to say I’m happy with it or would like to pay those inflated rates. Or that I don’t wish it were cheaper for me and for everyone else. But when it comes down to it, the value I have placed on it is higher.
If fact, other countries may value their health more than average Americans, given relative activity levels and rates of obesity and other diseases such as type 2 diabetes, despite their cost of healthcare services being cheaper.
That’s not to say I’m happy with it or would like to pay those inflated rates. Or that I don’t wish it were cheaper for me and for everyone else. But when it comes down to it, the value I have placed on it is higher.
If fact, other countries may value their health more than average Americans, given relative activity levels and rates of obesity and other diseases such as type 2 diabetes, despite their cost of healthcare services being cheaper.
I'm glad your healthcare was not so overpriced that it's not worth it. That's a bleak statement to have to make.
Suppose we built a Byzantine system around food like we do for prescription drugs. Food can be powerful medicine after all ... so imagine if you needed a nutritionist to prescribe specific foods in specific quantities. When you go to the grocery store, you're not allowed to just pick whatever, and you don't find out the cost of anything until weeks later. Grocery billing specialists send endless documents back and forth. Everyone in this society spends twice as large a portion of their income on food as their peers in other countries, but the food is worse. Food becomes so expensive and costs are so unpredictable that employers provide grocery insurance benefits that pull down the salaries they can pay. But when you're hungry, you need to eat so of course you "value the food you've received recently more than the price you paid for it". Does the fact that a hungry person with no options will pay a lot to not continue being hungry really imply that the high prices in this system match high value being delivered? Or can we perhaps recognize that the value being provided (food to be eaten) is similar to the food-value provided at much lower cost in other systems, and therefore the high prices in this system do not imply that its services are especially valuable?
Suppose we built a Byzantine system around food like we do for prescription drugs. Food can be powerful medicine after all ... so imagine if you needed a nutritionist to prescribe specific foods in specific quantities. When you go to the grocery store, you're not allowed to just pick whatever, and you don't find out the cost of anything until weeks later. Grocery billing specialists send endless documents back and forth. Everyone in this society spends twice as large a portion of their income on food as their peers in other countries, but the food is worse. Food becomes so expensive and costs are so unpredictable that employers provide grocery insurance benefits that pull down the salaries they can pay. But when you're hungry, you need to eat so of course you "value the food you've received recently more than the price you paid for it". Does the fact that a hungry person with no options will pay a lot to not continue being hungry really imply that the high prices in this system match high value being delivered? Or can we perhaps recognize that the value being provided (food to be eaten) is similar to the food-value provided at much lower cost in other systems, and therefore the high prices in this system do not imply that its services are especially valuable?
"But I already have enough food so like this doesn't really apply to me "
I find it really hard to understand how people will continually go against their own self interests to align with their beliefs, without question.
Things can be different, things do change and we're not always right.
Data has shown we could all be spending considerably less on Healthcare with single player [1] and not be at the mercy of our employment for it... But it's still shunned because it's socialism or some other reason.
1. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system...
I find it really hard to understand how people will continually go against their own self interests to align with their beliefs, without question.
Things can be different, things do change and we're not always right.
Data has shown we could all be spending considerably less on Healthcare with single player [1] and not be at the mercy of our employment for it... But it's still shunned because it's socialism or some other reason.
1. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/01/416416/single-payer-system...
Not sure how strong your metaphor is:
If you are going to buy drinkable water, you either "value" it at or above the price you pay, or you don't buy it. Why is healthcare different?
If you are going to buy drinkable water, you either "value" it at or above the price you pay, or you don't buy it. Why is healthcare different?
No, that’s exactly the same.
Because without a car you walk, take the bus, train, bicycle. Without healthcare you get sicker or die.
Yes, exactly my point. You compare alternatives and come up with value.
Do you compare alternatives based on value when making a health care choice? From what I can see you get the cost AFTER the issue has been resolved.
I'm really tired of people who think they can ignore all systemic economic problems by invoking value as this magical substance that can take any shape needed to conceal the fact that: A lot of people get paid a lot of money just to fill up society's `node_modules`, and this is not something for which the end users deserve blame or responsibility.
> I'm really tired of people who think they can ignore all systemic economic problems by invoking value as this magical substance
As someone part of a family that has recently consumed a lot of healthcare (myself included), I am not ignoring them at all, pretending they don’t exist, or arguing that we don’t need significant reform (I think we do). But they currently do exist and they currently are part of the cost and therefore currently dictate the value.
As someone part of a family that has recently consumed a lot of healthcare (myself included), I am not ignoring them at all, pretending they don’t exist, or arguing that we don’t need significant reform (I think we do). But they currently do exist and they currently are part of the cost and therefore currently dictate the value.
To put it plainly, in America, the value of Healthcare compared to the cost is shit.
Your beholden to your employment to keep it and if you work for a smaller company they usually have shittier plans leading to worse bargaining power. Also if that company is looking to cut costs they may choose even worse plans which you have ZERO control over.
Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean things couldn't improve.
Your beholden to your employment to keep it and if you work for a smaller company they usually have shittier plans leading to worse bargaining power. Also if that company is looking to cut costs they may choose even worse plans which you have ZERO control over.
Just because that's the way it is doesn't mean things couldn't improve.
> If the healthcare I receive includes GP visits needed to get a referral to a specialist to satisfy my insurance co, or extra tests to convince them that a procedure is necessary, is that "value" that I received?
Do you think all of those tests are irrelevant? Who sent you to the specialist, if not your primary care provider?
What do you think health care value actually is? It appears you don’t think it includes actual care or diagnosis.
Do you think all of those tests are irrelevant? Who sent you to the specialist, if not your primary care provider?
What do you think health care value actually is? It appears you don’t think it includes actual care or diagnosis.
My primary care doctor has to consider what my insurance allows when providing me care, and that includes knowing what my insurance will allow for procedures that require a specialist. We talk about it all the time, and he hates it, because he knows I need to see the specialist for a specific procedure, but knows that without the test, I'll end up with the bill instead of the insurance company.
Who should I trust more with my health? My doctor, or my insurance?
In October of 2019 I needed a hip replacement. I had bone grinding into bone. You could literally hear it if you walked beside me. Imaging showed it clearly. My doctor, being a doctor, knew that the best course of treatment was to replace it with a prosthetic ball and socket, despite the risks (I will need two more in my life, if I live to average age).
My insurance refused to pay for it, saying my age alone disqualified me (too young).
It's 2024. I'm still fighting that insurance company. I'm totally healed, feel no pain, and can actually run as a hobby. My health as a result has drastically improved.
Do you believe that health insurance companies provide value?
Who should I trust more with my health? My doctor, or my insurance?
In October of 2019 I needed a hip replacement. I had bone grinding into bone. You could literally hear it if you walked beside me. Imaging showed it clearly. My doctor, being a doctor, knew that the best course of treatment was to replace it with a prosthetic ball and socket, despite the risks (I will need two more in my life, if I live to average age).
My insurance refused to pay for it, saying my age alone disqualified me (too young).
It's 2024. I'm still fighting that insurance company. I'm totally healed, feel no pain, and can actually run as a hobby. My health as a result has drastically improved.
Do you believe that health insurance companies provide value?
Given your particular medical history, preexisting conditions, including past GPs and specialists which your current insurance company may know nothing about, you may already know who you need to see. Re-convincing an insurer can be a waste of everyone's time, and can in some cases create greater net expense and delayed care.
And GPs and other medical professionals have complained to me in the past that some test is not actually necessary, that they are confident in a diagnosis, but some additional test is necessary purely to convince the insurance company that they do in fact know what they know.
I value diagnosis by the appropriate trusted medical professional. I do not value the opinion of my insurance company.
And GPs and other medical professionals have complained to me in the past that some test is not actually necessary, that they are confident in a diagnosis, but some additional test is necessary purely to convince the insurance company that they do in fact know what they know.
I value diagnosis by the appropriate trusted medical professional. I do not value the opinion of my insurance company.
> you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value.
It has a high cost, I'll grant. But value isn't the same as cost, especially in a captive market.
It has a high cost, I'll grant. But value isn't the same as cost, especially in a captive market.
Health insurance also has high value for many people - the cost you’d otherwise pay. For my family, that’s in the many many of thousands.
No, it has little to no value at all until something really catastrophic happens to you. Paying thousands of dollars a year for a "free" annual checkup is NOT delivering "a lot of value". It's been much more of just a money pit.
Over my career, I am upside-down on my healthcare costs to the tune of six figures - and that's after kidney stone surgery some years back...) I think I'll pass on succumbing to cancer to try to recover a bit more, though...
Over my career, I am upside-down on my healthcare costs to the tune of six figures - and that's after kidney stone surgery some years back...) I think I'll pass on succumbing to cancer to try to recover a bit more, though...
It's tax time now so I get a wonderful breakdown of how much my company paid for my and my family's insurance (over $25k) and I also get to put together how much we spent out of pocket on health services (over $5k for a bog-standard pregnancy). If this is supposed to be some sort of bargain or good deal, I'm missing it. In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage.
I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding what insurance is, or just refusing to acknowledge it.
It's not pre-paid care. It's not a discount plan. Really, it's a gamble.
Health insurance is ridiculously expensive because health care can become ridiculously expensive. Sure, you're healthy and accident-free, but the costs of a traumatic accident or long-term illness could easily reach 6, possibly even 7 figures in the long term. That's what your insurance is paying for.
For any type of insurance to work, you need people that aren't making claims to fund the people that are making claims. If you take the attitude of "Why should my premiums pay for someone else's care?", then really there's no reason to even get insurance. Your insurance is costing $25K/year, because statistically, the average family has at least $20K in healthcare costs per year (Assuming the insurance company is satisfying the ACA requirement of 80% of premiums must go to paying for care).
Your $25K/year in premiums is a bet that you won't need some $Y to pay for healthcare, where $Y >>> $25K. Most of the time, you're losing that bet, and the insurer is making $25K off of you. But if you ever find yourself in a world of hurt (quite literally), you'll be glad you made the bet.
It's not pre-paid care. It's not a discount plan. Really, it's a gamble.
Health insurance is ridiculously expensive because health care can become ridiculously expensive. Sure, you're healthy and accident-free, but the costs of a traumatic accident or long-term illness could easily reach 6, possibly even 7 figures in the long term. That's what your insurance is paying for.
For any type of insurance to work, you need people that aren't making claims to fund the people that are making claims. If you take the attitude of "Why should my premiums pay for someone else's care?", then really there's no reason to even get insurance. Your insurance is costing $25K/year, because statistically, the average family has at least $20K in healthcare costs per year (Assuming the insurance company is satisfying the ACA requirement of 80% of premiums must go to paying for care).
Your $25K/year in premiums is a bet that you won't need some $Y to pay for healthcare, where $Y >>> $25K. Most of the time, you're losing that bet, and the insurer is making $25K off of you. But if you ever find yourself in a world of hurt (quite literally), you'll be glad you made the bet.
US health insurance is simply completely nuts for an European (EU) person.
My health insurance is not free (it is taxed as a separate social tax) but it is way, way less than this.
There is still one important disclaimer to add. Because very good niche doctors who can perform very specific rare procedures can charge a lot more in US then it can happen that these doctors will emigrate to US from EU and it is possible but not necessarily true that this kind of very expensive insurance could cover such procedures and make them more available for US insurers than for EU insurers (e.g. tax payers).
My health insurance is not free (it is taxed as a separate social tax) but it is way, way less than this.
There is still one important disclaimer to add. Because very good niche doctors who can perform very specific rare procedures can charge a lot more in US then it can happen that these doctors will emigrate to US from EU and it is possible but not necessarily true that this kind of very expensive insurance could cover such procedures and make them more available for US insurers than for EU insurers (e.g. tax payers).
This is true but I think misses the spirit of the criticism
Imagine an alternative world where health insurance acts more like a mortgage with an amortization schedule. when youre young (and have low savings) your premiums act like they do now - simple insurance. But as you age, your payments are split gradually between pure premium and an HSA. The amount you’re personally liable for increases as you age, but so does your ability to pay out of pocket. For high earners this scheme makes a lot more sense (because youll have a few hundred thousand in health savings by retirement).
Most people actually do the above but clumsily and also in the opposite order - HDHP plans are more broadly useful when youre young and healthy because you probably wont have high medical costs so you just save on premiums.
Imagine an alternative world where health insurance acts more like a mortgage with an amortization schedule. when youre young (and have low savings) your premiums act like they do now - simple insurance. But as you age, your payments are split gradually between pure premium and an HSA. The amount you’re personally liable for increases as you age, but so does your ability to pay out of pocket. For high earners this scheme makes a lot more sense (because youll have a few hundred thousand in health savings by retirement).
Most people actually do the above but clumsily and also in the opposite order - HDHP plans are more broadly useful when youre young and healthy because you probably wont have high medical costs so you just save on premiums.
> Imagine an alternative world [...]
This world could be disastrous.
Imagine your entire savings wiped out by a single incident. Though this already happens in the current world.
Also, that world would simply not work for low earners.
This world could be disastrous.
Imagine your entire savings wiped out by a single incident. Though this already happens in the current world.
Also, that world would simply not work for low earners.
Then get rid of it. In the US, you’re not obligated to have insurance and are free to gamble on your continued good health and save your premium money for a black swan health event.
Or, alternately, look up the word “insurance” and realize what its purpose is.
Or, alternately, look up the word “insurance” and realize what its purpose is.
Maybe you missed the part where my employer pays the $25k/year on my behalf. Though your condescension is noted, everyone clearly knows what insurance is and it should be abundantly clear why it's so problematic. Maybe worth noting in that same time period, my insurance company reported nearly $150 billion in profits after paying their entire corps of middlemen and rent-seekers, who as far as I can tell soley exist to mididentify routine procedures and billing codes in the hopes that I won't have any more patience to sit on hold and get it corrected.
> In the decade prior to this, my total premiums must have been over $200k for literally no usage.
You’ve just described insurance. If everyone took more than they used, it wouldn’t work.
You’ve just described insurance. If everyone took more than they used, it wouldn’t work.
> There's another story going around that if you add benefits like health insurance not to mention programs like food stamps the gap between rich and poor hasn't increased as much as you'd think otherwise.
Where’s that story?
Where’s that story?
It's a fairy tale. There's no way $200/month in food stamp benefits (conditioned, BTW, on not having more than $2000 cash in a bank account) does jack squat to the gap between someone recieving SNAP benefits and someone who's actually well off. Even if you add in Medicaid benefits that some SNAP recipients are automatically eligible, it doesn't even come close.
It doesn't explain how Gen X won't be able to retire, or how 80% of Americans can't afford new cars, or how the average person can't afford a home in 99% of America. And, it sure as hell doesn't explain what's going on at the grocery store, or in the used car market, or in the rental market. (All of which has been previously / recently discussed on here, BTW.)
And, it for damn sure doesn't pay my bills. That story and $3 doesn't even get you a latte at a chain coffee shop anymore.
No, it's just some made up BS to either gaslight us into thinking everything is fine, or make wealthy people feel okay about all the exploitation it takes to turn the crank that makes them a dollar.
It doesn't explain how Gen X won't be able to retire, or how 80% of Americans can't afford new cars, or how the average person can't afford a home in 99% of America. And, it sure as hell doesn't explain what's going on at the grocery store, or in the used car market, or in the rental market. (All of which has been previously / recently discussed on here, BTW.)
And, it for damn sure doesn't pay my bills. That story and $3 doesn't even get you a latte at a chain coffee shop anymore.
No, it's just some made up BS to either gaslight us into thinking everything is fine, or make wealthy people feel okay about all the exploitation it takes to turn the crank that makes them a dollar.
> It's a fairy tale
That’s what I expected. The annual food stamp benefit appears to be less than the employer covered plans for health care at companies commonly employing people on this site. But I’m open to reading GP’s articles.
That’s what I expected. The annual food stamp benefit appears to be less than the employer covered plans for health care at companies commonly employing people on this site. But I’m open to reading GP’s articles.
See http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/public/@ed_protect/@protrav... and https://www.epi.org/press/new-tool-examines-how-u-s-taxes-an... and https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2019.00931
You forgot to tell me the rest of the story.
I agree with you in principle, provided you have the time and resources to make the insurance company actually pay out what they're supposed to. It's been more my experience that the insurance company pays most charges and then you have to dispute one or two denials to the tune of a few hundred per ED visit. Or they have accounting errors or other problems that result in you being billed past your out of pocket max or your coinsurance. And so on.
It's not like it's a free market because you can't just kick them to the curb a month later like you can with car or homeowner's insurance.
It's not like it's a free market because you can't just kick them to the curb a month later like you can with car or homeowner's insurance.
Clearly since people will often turn down a higher paying job with worse health insurance than a lower paying job with better.
Workers look at the total compensation package, not just wages alone.
Workers look at the total compensation package, not just wages alone.
>you are getting health insurance, which has a lot of value.
So much 'value' that millions of Americans still end up in medical debt, with many having to resort to medical bankruptcy even as 'insured' individuals.
Too many exclusions, too many ways to deny coverage. The private health care system of the US is broken.
So much 'value' that millions of Americans still end up in medical debt, with many having to resort to medical bankruptcy even as 'insured' individuals.
Too many exclusions, too many ways to deny coverage. The private health care system of the US is broken.
Running a small company it is glaring how much worse things have gotten over the last 20 years not between rich and poor but between rich and the middle class, especially in the US. Health insurance costs have exploded, cost of living too, wages have definitely not kept pace.
Health insurance is one I find especially infuriating, the increase in premiums every year is insane, and always more than inflation.
In the UK you get to pay both public and private healthcare. Both of low quality. Private health care relies on “virtual appointments” and usually leads to mis diagnostics. It will get worse with ai.
It used to be better. When I first lived in the UK, going on thirty years ago, it was brilliant. Even fifteen years ago both NHS and private were head and shoulders (and more) better than the US (I have intimate experience with both sadly).
The deliberate destruction, in the name of profit, of the NHS across the last decade makes me more angry than just about anything anywhere.
The deliberate destruction, in the name of profit, of the NHS across the last decade makes me more angry than just about anything anywhere.
> It will get worse with ai.
I've had to self-diagnose and then just plainly guide several of my doctors, even specialists, on diagnostics (for evidence) and subsequent treatment.
I've had some really lame infections and things going on, and most of my GPs over the years would just pin it down to anxiety or blindly prescribe antibiotics (made things much worse).
I've lost all faith in the average doctor's expertise, so I expect AI must be better but at the same time realize the whole system gets inexplicably worse as a human being on the other end, despite advances in technology.
I've had to self-diagnose and then just plainly guide several of my doctors, even specialists, on diagnostics (for evidence) and subsequent treatment.
I've had some really lame infections and things going on, and most of my GPs over the years would just pin it down to anxiety or blindly prescribe antibiotics (made things much worse).
I've lost all faith in the average doctor's expertise, so I expect AI must be better but at the same time realize the whole system gets inexplicably worse as a human being on the other end, despite advances in technology.
Ok, so you've received low quality health care and you think a hallucinating bot is the solution? What if we, you know, start hiring competent people? Or change the system to allow them to become competent?
> What if we, you know, start hiring competent people?
I've seen enough doctors at this point in completely different specialities and they're all reliably pretty bad. After so many years of education and experience.
To me this backs-up another common sense fact: experts often suck and persist in their error because they've built an entire toolbox of sophisticated mental tools that are able to support their erroneous thinking. To me this is why experts of all sorts are often in the position of arguing "don't believe your lying eyes" to normal people.
I've seen enough doctors at this point in completely different specialities and they're all reliably pretty bad. After so many years of education and experience.
To me this backs-up another common sense fact: experts often suck and persist in their error because they've built an entire toolbox of sophisticated mental tools that are able to support their erroneous thinking. To me this is why experts of all sorts are often in the position of arguing "don't believe your lying eyes" to normal people.
> I've had to self-diagnose and then just plainly guide several of my doctors, even specialists, on diagnostics (for evidence) and subsequent treatment.
Being involved in your own treatment is very important. In my opinion, it’s folly to expect your doctor to know everything. I can read descriptions of similar diseases and problems and be able to compare my symptoms. You generally know your body better than anyone.
Being involved in your own treatment is very important. In my opinion, it’s folly to expect your doctor to know everything. I can read descriptions of similar diseases and problems and be able to compare my symptoms. You generally know your body better than anyone.
1. No negotiated rates.
2. No employer mandate.
3. No special tax treatment.
4. No individual mandate.
Crazy idea: Convert Medicare, Medicaid, and SSDI to universal medical loan insurance.
Crazy idea: Convert Medicare, Medicaid, and SSDI to universal medical loan insurance.
obesity is probably to blame here. So many chronic health problems are probably downstream from obesity.
The rising costs of healthcare should not be simplified to this extreme. Other huge factors: we are getting older on average, fewer doctors, bureaucracy, transparency, etc. Further, these are heavily entertwined. Been working on costs of healthcare for a while and the laymens simplified explanation of the problem makes it tough at times.
+ malpractice insurance
Uhh...
Researchers also found that Black and Hispanic families lost a higher percentage of their wages than white families. By 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation were 18.5% for Asian families, 19.2% for Black families, and 19.8% for Hispanic families, compared to 13.8% for white families.
Lower-wage workers are also hit hard by this disparity. In 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation represented 28.5% of compensation for families in the 20th percentile of earnings, compared with only 3.9% for families in the 95th percentile.
Maybe not the one you want to skip the article for. On another note Asian Americans are skinnier than White Americans even adjusted for on BMI so obesity is ruled out.
Researchers also found that Black and Hispanic families lost a higher percentage of their wages than white families. By 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation were 18.5% for Asian families, 19.2% for Black families, and 19.8% for Hispanic families, compared to 13.8% for white families.
Lower-wage workers are also hit hard by this disparity. In 2019, health care premiums as percentage of compensation represented 28.5% of compensation for families in the 20th percentile of earnings, compared with only 3.9% for families in the 95th percentile.
Maybe not the one you want to skip the article for. On another note Asian Americans are skinnier than White Americans even adjusted for on BMI so obesity is ruled out.
What those other races do have over whites is probably their propensity for Type 2 diabetes though.
Blacks and Asians definitely, possibly for different reasons. Not completely certain about hispanics tbf.
Blacks and Asians definitely, possibly for different reasons. Not completely certain about hispanics tbf.
Obesity may be a factor, but it's stupid to think that it has anything like the impact that boneheaded government policy has on healthcare costs. Obamacare was, and is, a disaster, driving up costs while producing worse outcomes. (I've worked as a CEO in a healthcare tech startup since then, so I've got better insight than the average bear.)
The vast majority of people actually need those "junk plans" Obama eliminated: Catastrophic coverage plans with fairly high deductibles (which HSAs would handle after a few years...)
The vast majority of people actually need those "junk plans" Obama eliminated: Catastrophic coverage plans with fairly high deductibles (which HSAs would handle after a few years...)
> Obamacare was, and is, a disaster, driving up costs while producing worse outcomes.
I'm not sure I'd call it a disaster, but I will agree that ACA did absolutely nothing to address the core issue:
Health care is just too expensive.
I crashed my mountain bike in the summer of 2022, broke my arm and scraped up my knee real bad, though managed to put my bike back on the rack on my car and drive to the ER one-handed. They did an X-Ray, confirmed the breakage, gave me an arm sling and a prescription for painkillers, and cleaned up my knee. Total visit was 20 minutes. Without insurance, it would have cost me nearly $3,000.
$3,000 for 20 minutes of work between an X-Ray tech, 1 doc, 1 nurse, and 1 person at the front desk.
I understand that there's overhead, but I still think that cost was 5x what it should have been.
I'm not sure I'd call it a disaster, but I will agree that ACA did absolutely nothing to address the core issue:
Health care is just too expensive.
I crashed my mountain bike in the summer of 2022, broke my arm and scraped up my knee real bad, though managed to put my bike back on the rack on my car and drive to the ER one-handed. They did an X-Ray, confirmed the breakage, gave me an arm sling and a prescription for painkillers, and cleaned up my knee. Total visit was 20 minutes. Without insurance, it would have cost me nearly $3,000.
$3,000 for 20 minutes of work between an X-Ray tech, 1 doc, 1 nurse, and 1 person at the front desk.
I understand that there's overhead, but I still think that cost was 5x what it should have been.
The ACA was a fantastic tool, enabling millions more people to access insurance that will actually pay things. If this is your analysis, my assumption is that you work in a healthcare adjacent world like BNPL and don’t actually have even the vaguest understanding of what the ACA is, does, or includes.
We can start with the simple fact that catastrophic plans still exist and that they actually cover things, now. That you think they both don’t exist and we’re somehow better before defies belief.
We can start with the simple fact that catastrophic plans still exist and that they actually cover things, now. That you think they both don’t exist and we’re somehow better before defies belief.
Catastrophic plans are only available for those age 30 or below.
Obesity is the symptom. The disease is a bigger, more interconnected subject.
It could well be the effect of PFAS, glyphosate, bisphenol A or some other industrial chemical that exploded in prevalence in the last quarter of the 20th Century.
Good candidates for contributing factors for the obesity epidemic.
There seems to have been a spark that set off the obesity conflagration sometime around 1978-1981. The kindling that nurtures this spark had been accumulating since the early 20th century… The chemicals you mention were certainly contributory.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38812171
There seems to have been a spark that set off the obesity conflagration sometime around 1978-1981. The kindling that nurtures this spark had been accumulating since the early 20th century… The chemicals you mention were certainly contributory.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38812171