Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen(shellshore.com)
shellshore.com
Rotring 600 Ballpoint Pen
https://www.shellshore.com/review-rotring-600-ballpoint-pen/
205 comments
Oh, that's a very specific crack. This is an extrusion error. The extrusion temperature is dropping too low while it's still over the internal die. The thicker peaks cool more slowly than the thinner flats, remaining at a weaker temperature longer, and they're pulled apart by accumulating contraction.
These cracks usually aren't obvious until they meet a conflicting load. For example, tapping threads up the end without supporting the work correctly. It's not like this is a load bearing part, they could get around this issue with a little care. Holding the work in a hex collet during tapping is cheap, adds efficiency, and would solve the problem. Sending feedback to the extruder is free and usually effective. Or maybe the product is moving well enough on brand equity that it's not worth bothering.
These cracks usually aren't obvious until they meet a conflicting load. For example, tapping threads up the end without supporting the work correctly. It's not like this is a load bearing part, they could get around this issue with a little care. Holding the work in a hex collet during tapping is cheap, adds efficiency, and would solve the problem. Sending feedback to the extruder is free and usually effective. Or maybe the product is moving well enough on brand equity that it's not worth bothering.
The original Rotring is gone; Rotring was bought by Newell Brands and is now just a label on copies made elsewhere. (They did the same with Parker and Waterman.) 20th-century Rotring is the real thing.
I had an old one and it broke, so I went looking for a new one,and it just felt cheap. Then I saw a pair at a flea market for $10, and only one had been used. I use a black rubber tape on them for comfort and it makes it less prone to cracking on the handle, and store them in a black box. ( Less UV ). I do keep going back by the store, and hoping their cheap ones get discontinued... But they are still. There.
What are the best refills to use for them?
What are the best refills to use for them?
This is correct. I have NOS Rotrings made in Germany. They sell for a pretty penny online. People who love the pens know the modern production isn’t the same.
> Rotring quality has been going down over the years, or their name outgrew the actual quality of the product.
This story is so common that I wish there was an established economic term for it. Something like "reputational arbitrage" or perhaps "sentiment stickiness".
The basic idea is that a business can change its quality much faster than its reputation changes. If the business rapidly cuts costs and quality, their sales will reflect their reputed quality more than their actual quality for some amount of time. That gives them a window of very high profits where they can basically sell shit like it's gold.
Eventually the reputation catches up with them, but it seems to take a very long time to do so, if ever, so it's an extremely tempting business model.
There is a related but different effect where a brand establishes some level of cachet or meaningful emotional attachment back when the product was good. The product tanks, but people keep buying it even while knowing it's garbage just because of the emotional associations they have with the historical product.
The line between these two effects can be blurry. I think Pyrex leans more towards the former where people keep buying it simply because they don't realize it kind of sucks. But Jeep is the latter where it seems like everyone knows they'll spend half the time in the shop but people just like Jeeps anyway.
This story is so common that I wish there was an established economic term for it. Something like "reputational arbitrage" or perhaps "sentiment stickiness".
The basic idea is that a business can change its quality much faster than its reputation changes. If the business rapidly cuts costs and quality, their sales will reflect their reputed quality more than their actual quality for some amount of time. That gives them a window of very high profits where they can basically sell shit like it's gold.
Eventually the reputation catches up with them, but it seems to take a very long time to do so, if ever, so it's an extremely tempting business model.
There is a related but different effect where a brand establishes some level of cachet or meaningful emotional attachment back when the product was good. The product tanks, but people keep buying it even while knowing it's garbage just because of the emotional associations they have with the historical product.
The line between these two effects can be blurry. I think Pyrex leans more towards the former where people keep buying it simply because they don't realize it kind of sucks. But Jeep is the latter where it seems like everyone knows they'll spend half the time in the shop but people just like Jeeps anyway.
> This story is so common that I wish there was an established economic term for it.
I thought we'd collectively decided on "enshittification"? Or is that different?
I thought we'd collectively decided on "enshittification"? Or is that different?
No, it should be the same. In software you can't really lower quality. Instead, stuff your product with ads and raise prices. In hardware you can lower production quality, but you can't really put ads on it. The outcome is the same.
Software suffers from a different problem, I feel. Namely that buyers care little about quality and only look for features.
So the MVP that meets what ever feature requirement a customer wants - at the lowest price - wins, regardless of how stable or secure the service is.
So the MVP that meets what ever feature requirement a customer wants - at the lowest price - wins, regardless of how stable or secure the service is.
We most definitely have not settled on that shitshow of a word.
No, enshittification is a different economic thing where a continuing service provides less and less for more and more (either attention or money) over time.
What I'm talking about is buying concrete objects at discrete moments in time.
Similar, but not the same.
What I'm talking about is buying concrete objects at discrete moments in time.
Similar, but not the same.
I think it is the same: build reputation and trust in your brand, and then abuse that trust by making more and more consumer-screwing decisions.
With enshittification, you aren't just coasting on historic brand reputation. You actually have users locked into your product with pervasive network effects.
People don't still use Facebook because of any lingering nostalgia from its halcyon glory days. They use it because that's where their friends are and they can't get away. That's what enshittification is about.
There's no lock-in making boomers buy Harleys. It's just brand nostalgia despite the fact that the bikes suck now.
People don't still use Facebook because of any lingering nostalgia from its halcyon glory days. They use it because that's where their friends are and they can't get away. That's what enshittification is about.
There's no lock-in making boomers buy Harleys. It's just brand nostalgia despite the fact that the bikes suck now.
Legitimately curious, could you tell me more about Pyrex? I only heard that they changed the formula years ago to trade some impact resistance for thermal shock resistance, not that there are all-around better options. I haven’t had issues with mine, though I haven’t dropped them, and the only other options I notice in stores are store brand tempered glass that seems to be competing only on price.
I'm not an expert but what I've heard is that the glass isn't as good. I know they say it's because they traded thermal resistance for impact resistance, but I don't know how much I buy that.
I do know that when I bought a Pyrex measuring cup last year, the labeling faded in months. Meanwhile the old one I inherited from my mom is still usable.
I do know that when I bought a Pyrex measuring cup last year, the labeling faded in months. Meanwhile the old one I inherited from my mom is still usable.
Only thing I know is that there is a difference between pyrex and PYREX:
https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8xq8ac/ysk_p...
https://www.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/8xq8ac/ysk_p...
I have such a pen and it’s not my favorite. The grippy part doesn’t feel nice, it’s too rough. Also, the top button makes an abrasive, squeaky sound.
It’s not made to be kind to humans.
It’s not made to be kind to humans.
I still think that fountain pens are the pinnacle of writing stationery. One lasts generations and there's no consumables that need recycling or disposing of, if you use a rechargeable cartridge and buy ink bottles.
I agree :)
My daily driver is a Pilot Vanishing Point. It's a fountain pen with a form factor of a clickable ball point pen.
My daily driver is a Pilot Vanishing Point. It's a fountain pen with a form factor of a clickable ball point pen.
Vanishing Points are nice pens. I have an all matte black one. Also, pens tipping gets polished according to your handwriting over time, making it completely yours.
I also like Lamys. Most of their pens look simple but they’re work horses. Esp. Safari Umber.
I’m a bit too deep in that rabbit hole. :)
I also like Lamys. Most of their pens look simple but they’re work horses. Esp. Safari Umber.
I’m a bit too deep in that rabbit hole. :)
I wish I could find a faceted VP --- still kicking myself for not buying one when I had a chance a couple of years ago.
> One lasts generations
Multiple Parker Vectors I had typically lasted a few years of use each before the plastic windings between the pen head and the holder wore out or broke.
My Pilot Metropolitan did the same just a few months back.
I still have the high-end pens my grandfather used that, while mechanically still sound, I am unable to get the ink flowing through them.
I love writing with fountain pens, but long lasting they are not in my experience.
Multiple Parker Vectors I had typically lasted a few years of use each before the plastic windings between the pen head and the holder wore out or broke.
My Pilot Metropolitan did the same just a few months back.
I still have the high-end pens my grandfather used that, while mechanically still sound, I am unable to get the ink flowing through them.
I love writing with fountain pens, but long lasting they are not in my experience.
I have multiple pens which are a decade old, incl. a Metropolitan and Safari, and write like day one despite being used frequently.
I also have a couple ones older than 50. They also work. Clogged ones generally need a good flush with a fountain pen flush.
I also have a couple ones older than 50. They also work. Clogged ones generally need a good flush with a fountain pen flush.
Also, if you do not want to spend on any specialized fountain pen flush solution, diluted windex works very well. From the smell I am willing to bet that most fountain pen cleaning solutions are exactly that.
Thanks! Unfortunately we don't have Windex here. Many of them here contain alcohol, and some others contain lemon juice to remove calc stains from glass. I wouldn't risk that, actually.
I use J. Herbin's flush, which doesn't mind being used over and over. I filled an old Lamy 30ml ink bottle with one, and flush my pens with the same "liquid". From what I feel, it has some soap, some other surfactants, which it doesn't react with the rubber and seals inside the converters and pistons. Alcohol eats them from my experience.
The bottle I have gained interesting properties. It's a green-turquoise hue, which becomes reddish if you shine strong light through it :)
But it cleans like it's never used, which is nice.
I use J. Herbin's flush, which doesn't mind being used over and over. I filled an old Lamy 30ml ink bottle with one, and flush my pens with the same "liquid". From what I feel, it has some soap, some other surfactants, which it doesn't react with the rubber and seals inside the converters and pistons. Alcohol eats them from my experience.
The bottle I have gained interesting properties. It's a green-turquoise hue, which becomes reddish if you shine strong light through it :)
But it cleans like it's never used, which is nice.
Have you tried ultrasonic cleaning with plain water? I got a cheap ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and started cleaning my pens with it, and they work beautifully.
I have an ultrasonic cleaner too, but no pens were stubborn enough to necessitate a bath inside it.
I generally "power flush" my pens with a syringe: Get a 50ml syringe, cut the sealed end of a cartridge, fill the syringe, mate the syringe, cartridge, pen, and push the water through. After a couple of times, the pen is thoroughly cleaned. Shake a couple of times, let it dry.
On the other hand, many (if not most) inks have some detergents in it, and keep your pen clean and clog free as long as you use them. Older inks used Solv-X which was more effective but deemed carcinogen and banned in modern inks.
I generally "power flush" my pens with a syringe: Get a 50ml syringe, cut the sealed end of a cartridge, fill the syringe, mate the syringe, cartridge, pen, and push the water through. After a couple of times, the pen is thoroughly cleaned. Shake a couple of times, let it dry.
On the other hand, many (if not most) inks have some detergents in it, and keep your pen clean and clog free as long as you use them. Older inks used Solv-X which was more effective but deemed carcinogen and banned in modern inks.
I have a Metropolitan and the only reason I don't use it is because the cap doesn't seal well and the ink evaporates quickly.
Yes, metropolitan is not a “super sealer” which you can leave for a period, then pick up and write. It demands to be used regularly. It also doesn’t like to stand nib-up for long periods.
Because of it, I generally EDC it with a good, low maintenance inks, and try to use it very regularly. As an EDC pen, the nib balances its quirks.
Lamy 2000 and Pilot Custom 823 are two of the most patient pens I have ever used in that regard.
Because of it, I generally EDC it with a good, low maintenance inks, and try to use it very regularly. As an EDC pen, the nib balances its quirks.
Lamy 2000 and Pilot Custom 823 are two of the most patient pens I have ever used in that regard.
I disagree. I used a Waterman Expert for a long time. It conked out when someone I loaned it to dropped it. I switched to a Noodlers Ahab (which has a flexible nib) so you can do a little bit of flourishing for headings etc. I've used it for a long time and still do. Recently, I switched to a broad tipped Lamy Safari (which was a birthday gift).
My main problem is that most papers can't really handle the inkflow from fountain pens anymore and since the place I come from is somewhat humid, the papers quickly start to bleed ink. So, my more common instrument is a Pentel graphgear mechanical pencil.
I do calligraphy as a hobby so I have separate arsenal of dip pens and nibs but those are not for daily use.
My main problem is that most papers can't really handle the inkflow from fountain pens anymore and since the place I come from is somewhat humid, the papers quickly start to bleed ink. So, my more common instrument is a Pentel graphgear mechanical pencil.
I do calligraphy as a hobby so I have separate arsenal of dip pens and nibs but those are not for daily use.
I’ve also got a noodler ahab that’s been going strong for years- vegetable resin body, plastic everything else except the metal nib, clip and ring around the opening of the cap.
Parker Vectors were cheap Parkers in my experience. They were like the 40 dollar nikes that you used to get. More money was spent in the brand than the quality.
I got a Parker Sonnet as a prize in a competition. It is still good, even though I rarely use it nowadays.
I got a Parker Sonnet as a prize in a competition. It is still good, even though I rarely use it nowadays.
I've had an ancient Parker 51 for a good decade or so now which I use almost daily, that originally belonged to my great-grandmother.
I'd expect there to be a reasonable amount of variation in how long these pens last due to differences in usage, machining tolerances, ink types and materials - though mine has done very well considering how many times I've chucked it into a bag, dropped it on hard floors, etc. (I've probably just been lucky so far).
I'd expect there to be a reasonable amount of variation in how long these pens last due to differences in usage, machining tolerances, ink types and materials - though mine has done very well considering how many times I've chucked it into a bag, dropped it on hard floors, etc. (I've probably just been lucky so far).
The stainless steel Parker Vector is much harder-wearing and available for under £15. Same nib unit as the plastic ones.
(I found them particularly good when used with the washable ink cartridges, never drying out even after long periods of disuse. The permanent ink isn't as good in this respect and the pens need more regular use.)
(I found them particularly good when used with the washable ink cartridges, never drying out even after long periods of disuse. The permanent ink isn't as good in this respect and the pens need more regular use.)
Parker, Waterman, Rotring were all bought by Newell (Rubbermaid) and gutted. You have to go back to 20th-century production to get the real thing.
Yes definitely agree, I own the Rotring 600 and 800 pencil and they are fantastic, as already said the ballpoint version is dependant on the refill. The construction is sturdy and they feel very robust and heavy.
But... I've recently transitioned to Pilot Capless fountain pen and it's night and day with the write feeling: https://www.pilotpen.eu/our-products/capless/ with ink bottle refill. The nib size is important, I found the medium too large and landed on the fine nib size.
They're also horrible to use if you're left-handed and writing English or any other left-to-right language.
Ah yes. I'm right handed and I've suffered from this when trying RTL scripts (Arabic) for calligraphy. It's a challenge to keep your hand from blotting what you've written.
As a lefty, I disagree, but I don’t “overwrite”. I hold pen like a righty.
As a counter example, I'm left handed and write hundreds of pages per year in a left-to-right language and don't have issues with smudging lines with my palm.
Maybe the inks I use dry fast enough (Parker Quink or Pelikan 4001) or it's the way I learned to write back in school.
Maybe the inks I use dry fast enough (Parker Quink or Pelikan 4001) or it's the way I learned to write back in school.
I’d argue hand technique is more important than inks. I have wet pens with slower drying inks, and I write a similar amount without any smudges.
I'm right handed and used to smudge ink, don't ask me how.
Only now, with my notebooks at 90 degree angle can I write properly without smudging.
You're probably doing the lefty-handed-curl. If you adopt a really weird writing position you can write without smudges. Depending on your body-type it's either easy and obvious or very uncomfortable. I'm in the latter group so I just use a pencil.
Euch. That lefty-handed-curl is a solution proposed by the right handed world. The correct way to write as a left handed person is to turn the page ninety degrees.
My left-handed father always turned the page 90 deg to the right when given something to sign, with the left side of the line up. He caught hell for that in catholic school.
> The correct way to write as a left handed person is to turn the page ninety degrees.
That is such a genius solution!
That is such a genius solution!
Or play it like DaVinci and write mirrored, right-to-left.
I looked up some pictures of this lefty-handed curl and I suddenly feel immense gratitude towards the people from my childhood that taught me how to use my left hand to write in a practical and comfortable manner.
There was this article posted here on HN about the geodemography of left handedness in the US, and all sorts of discussion about past culture of eschewing LH'ded children in schools and such...
and I was surprised that no one brought up the very real downsides of being left handed in a left-to-right writing system region of the world (which is most of it). Most comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism and straight up malice with regard to students being forced a hand in writing early in school and it seemed no one brought up the very real practical reasons for preferring to write right handed, especially with ink.
And I say this as someone who is completely ambidextrous when writing but does not do the 'hook hand' left hand to write, and thus I usually write right-handed with pens and pencils. I have a left handed friend who does write that way and it just screams RSI/Carpal Tunnel to me.
and I was surprised that no one brought up the very real downsides of being left handed in a left-to-right writing system region of the world (which is most of it). Most comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism and straight up malice with regard to students being forced a hand in writing early in school and it seemed no one brought up the very real practical reasons for preferring to write right handed, especially with ink.
And I say this as someone who is completely ambidextrous when writing but does not do the 'hook hand' left hand to write, and thus I usually write right-handed with pens and pencils. I have a left handed friend who does write that way and it just screams RSI/Carpal Tunnel to me.
I wonder if those issues similarly affect the right handers among the 2 billon or so users of right-to-left writing systems?
Is there a significant difference in left-handedness in RTL countries? It seems strange to me that an RTL writing system would develop in a vast majority right handed environment, for the same reasons that left handed people have issues with LTR systems
No, RTL cultures still have the 10ish percent lefties. The difference is, RTL cultures developed writing styles and hand positions to work with RTL. Whereas LTR cultures treat lefties as an afterthought, so lefties only hear about actual good hand positions and writing styles as adults, after decades of learning what is basically a mirror to right-handed style.
> Most comments were leaning towards backwards conservatism and straight up malice
That's because this is why it was done. My parochial school in the 1990s did not allow me to use my left had because of the associations with evil, and one need not look further than the latin word for left to realize how entrenched this mindset was. To extrapolate that into a beneficial practice for writing styles seems like an unfounded stretch.
That's because this is why it was done. My parochial school in the 1990s did not allow me to use my left had because of the associations with evil, and one need not look further than the latin word for left to realize how entrenched this mindset was. To extrapolate that into a beneficial practice for writing styles seems like an unfounded stretch.
Making left handed people write right handed doesn't make them right handed.
As a T-ball coach, I had every player bat left-handed in the first inning and right-handed in the second inning. They alternated each inning. I was surprised how much this upset parents.
"My child is right handed!" some insisted. I wondered how they could know that about a child who had never swung a bat before. I also wondered why a parent would want their child to be so limited.
"My child is right handed!" some insisted. I wondered how they could know that about a child who had never swung a bat before. I also wondered why a parent would want their child to be so limited.
This is hysterical: you are a T-ball coach for tykes, which are just picking up their first good coordination, and you let them feel their way, and someone tells you otherwise. Wow. You are good, while you need 6 foot tall signs for helicopter parents that say "Do not drink engine cooling fluid!"
You are a saint..
You are a saint..
Or if you occasionally spill coffee or any other liquid ever. I sometimes hand-write recipes. Fountain pens + sloppy kitchen meal prep are a bad combo.
You can get some very permanent water-proof inks. Platinum Carbon black is my favourite.
De Atramentis, too, has a range of permanent inks which are quite fast-drying, too.
Happy customer for years.
Happy customer for years.
Platinum Carbon Black is a wonderful ink. It seems to work very well in cheap fountain pens with flow issues. It’s highly resistant to coffee spills and looks ok on mediocre paper. Only drawback is cleaning it up; it cleans up like used motor oil.
You can get fountain pen inks that chemically react with cellulose for complete water resistance (there may still be a little smudging from unreacted ink washing off the paper). Noodler's Black is a famous example. I like this kind of ink, although it's not without its drawbacks, because cotton/rayon/other plant fiber clothing is also mostly cellulose and will be stained just as permanently.
> inks that chemically react with cellulose
I had no idea. Great tip; thanks.
I'm looking for alternatives to lamination for posting outdoor flyers & signs.
I just received some (alleged) weatherproof copier paper to experiment with.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ3UNWL
I had no idea. Great tip; thanks.
I'm looking for alternatives to lamination for posting outdoor flyers & signs.
I just received some (alleged) weatherproof copier paper to experiment with.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ3UNWL
I've used only Noodler's Bulletproof Black for years (in a TWSBI Eco piston-fill) - it works great, and I realized if I was going to take the time to write extensive notes it was worth having some protection against water.
I previously used Waterman Black - it flows really smoothly, but it isn't waterproof. Also, it doesn't seem quite as dark as the Noodler's.
I previously used Waterman Black - it flows really smoothly, but it isn't waterproof. Also, it doesn't seem quite as dark as the Noodler's.
You need a fast dry ink and good paper.
But yes with usual supplies, it can be problematic.
My kid enjoys writing with fountain pain but her furnitures are given by school and they hand out a lot of printedpaper to fill..So no luck.
The problem I find is fountain pens are awesome in the dragging motion but really don't do well with a pushing motion. Writing left handed in a LTR world means you're constantly pushing the nib while a right hander drags the nib.
You can always write in reverse like Leonardo DaVinci did.
Perhaps a silly question, but would something like a Mahl stick help with left-handed writing? Painters and old-school draftsmen use them to keep their grubby mitts off the surface.
I suppose in today's public school you wouldn't be allowed one because it could conceivably be used as a weapon, but it would seem to be helpful.
I suppose in today's public school you wouldn't be allowed one because it could conceivably be used as a weapon, but it would seem to be helpful.
>Mahl stick
Thank you for using its name. I first saw it on TV showing someone hand painting a design on a car (probably a Rolls Royce on Top Gear) and thought it was brilliant in its simplicity, but didnt know its name.
Thank you for using its name. I first saw it on TV showing someone hand painting a design on a car (probably a Rolls Royce on Top Gear) and thought it was brilliant in its simplicity, but didnt know its name.
I just made one with a dowel and a big superball, but I've seen one that they put a skateboard wheel (with bearings) on the end so it rolls.
Left handed person here. Writing is already a chore, tying up both hands just to use a fountain pen without smearing seems to cross an effort/reward boundary.
Maybe useful if you were really committed to the tool. I've been casually interested in fountain pens for a while but the downsides seem to stack up whenever I actually look into it.
Maybe useful if you were really committed to the tool. I've been casually interested in fountain pens for a while but the downsides seem to stack up whenever I actually look into it.
You don't have to hold the stick, generally. For painting, yes, but you wouldn't have to when writing. It would just hold your hand up a little bit.
Maybe try a dowel with a glob of clay or something on the end and see?
The biggest crime to lefties is the fold-away half-size writing desk you see in lecture halls.
Maybe try a dowel with a glob of clay or something on the end and see?
The biggest crime to lefties is the fold-away half-size writing desk you see in lecture halls.
The Wikipedia entry is "Maulstick": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulstick
My go to choice for several decades since high school, even got to collect some throught the years, mostly Parker.
However they are also dangerous, beware of hand movents when holding one, otherwise there is quite some cleaning to do, and even document rewriting.
However they are also dangerous, beware of hand movents when holding one, otherwise there is quite some cleaning to do, and even document rewriting.
My first full time software engineering paycheque went towards a Lamy 2000. I've been using it for many years now and it's never let me down.
That probably costs more than I ever spent on all writing utensils I've ever owned.
What makes this cost that much (other than they are owned by uniball)? The material certainly isn't worth that much? And the function would be replicated in the market for less? So, what makes it not some luxury bullshit?
What makes this cost that much (other than they are owned by uniball)? The material certainly isn't worth that much? And the function would be replicated in the market for less? So, what makes it not some luxury bullshit?
I think the budget play is to get a cheap refillable fountain pen and some cheap fountain pen ink (I bought some Diamine bottled ink about 10 years ago and I've still got plenty left).
More expensive fountain pens are indeed luxury products - replicas are often available on places like aliexpress.
I think it probably feels like bullshit if you don't think you'll gain any satisfaction or derive any pleasure from the act of writing or the aesthetics of your writing instrument.
More expensive fountain pens are indeed luxury products - replicas are often available on places like aliexpress.
I think it probably feels like bullshit if you don't think you'll gain any satisfaction or derive any pleasure from the act of writing or the aesthetics of your writing instrument.
I'd been using the much cheaper Lamy Al Star (admittedly also a step up from the plastic Lamy Safari) for a while, and I really liked the feel of them. To be honest, I kind of just wanted a nicer version of that, and the 2000 did not disappoint.
The nib feels much, smoother. Mine is fairly wet without excessively showing through low quality paper. The refilling mechanism is a lot nicer than the cartridge-pump I'd been using on the Al Star.
Is it better? Yeah, but it's not 10x better than the Al Star which is what the price would suggest. So it is definitely a luxury product from that point of view.
The nib feels much, smoother. Mine is fairly wet without excessively showing through low quality paper. The refilling mechanism is a lot nicer than the cartridge-pump I'd been using on the Al Star.
Is it better? Yeah, but it's not 10x better than the Al Star which is what the price would suggest. So it is definitely a luxury product from that point of view.
Ever buy yourself something nice that you use often? A nice belt, a nice comb, or a nice razor? A nice kitchen knife arguably does the same job as a cheap Walmart special.
Sometimes it's nice to splurge on high quality items - especially when you use them every day, like a pen. It's a little thing, but it brings pleasure every time you use it.
Not everything is about cost efficiency. You'll never regret buying quality.
Sometimes it's nice to splurge on high quality items - especially when you use them every day, like a pen. It's a little thing, but it brings pleasure every time you use it.
Not everything is about cost efficiency. You'll never regret buying quality.
I vaguely remember the writing tip getting blunt after a while and needing change.
That happens on inexpensive nibs which lack iridium (or some similar metal/alloy) tipping.
A tipped fountain pen will be incredibly resistant to wear --- while I did significantly wear down the inexpensive Platignum (British brand, but despite the name untipped steel) fountain pen I had when I was younger after a couple of decades, when I finally switched to using more expensive pens with nibs for tipping, haven't had to replace a nib since.
A tipped fountain pen will be incredibly resistant to wear --- while I did significantly wear down the inexpensive Platignum (British brand, but despite the name untipped steel) fountain pen I had when I was younger after a couple of decades, when I finally switched to using more expensive pens with nibs for tipping, haven't had to replace a nib since.
Oh hell no. I used fountain pens, good ones, for nearly 20 years. They leak, blob all over the place, are difficult to refill, require cleaning, end up with servicing problems when you really need to write immediately. Also difficult to draw complex diagrams with. Absolute self inflicted pain and misery.
I use Muji gel pens now. None of those problems and you can take the cartridges back to them and they recycle them. And the pen bodies themselves last functionally forever.
I use Muji gel pens now. None of those problems and you can take the cartridges back to them and they recycle them. And the pen bodies themselves last functionally forever.
> there's no consumables that need recycling or disposing of, if you use a rechargeable cartridge and buy ink bottles.
Genuine question: don't you need to dispose or recycle the ink bottles?
Genuine question: don't you need to dispose or recycle the ink bottles?
They’re usually glass and last years. So maybe Gp isn’t counting that as consumable
Totally agree. I used a fountain pen all the way through school and university.
My all time favourite was the Parker 25 in stainless steel, with a medium nib and blue-black ink. Sometimes I would go for purple if I was feeling a bit raunchy.
I know a lot of people liked the 105, and I had one, and a bunch of others, but there is something about the utilitarian functionality of the 25 that I really have a soft spot for.
I think there was a year or two where I may have flirted with ballpens, but not seriously.
Also even used Rotring and Staedtler Mars technical drawing pens on and off for regular writing. That was always fun in the middle of a lecture with ink everywhere.
It's such a shame I don't get to write on paper that much these days. No real need. Such a beautiful experience though.
My all time favourite was the Parker 25 in stainless steel, with a medium nib and blue-black ink. Sometimes I would go for purple if I was feeling a bit raunchy.
I know a lot of people liked the 105, and I had one, and a bunch of others, but there is something about the utilitarian functionality of the 25 that I really have a soft spot for.
I think there was a year or two where I may have flirted with ballpens, but not seriously.
Also even used Rotring and Staedtler Mars technical drawing pens on and off for regular writing. That was always fun in the middle of a lecture with ink everywhere.
It's such a shame I don't get to write on paper that much these days. No real need. Such a beautiful experience though.
Well, there are the bottles ink comes in --- I left behind a drawerful of empty Sheaffer bottles at a previous job which I've always regretted.
Agreed, except I have _not_ been able to get my Aurora Hastil to write/fill reliably for a couple of years now, despite cleaning, and I can't send it in to the manufacturer since the tip was ground to a chisel italic by Gretta Lostkemper (who used to oversee custom grinding at Sheaffer). Guess I need to get an ultrasonic cleaner and try that....
Agreed, except I have _not_ been able to get my Aurora Hastil to write/fill reliably for a couple of years now, despite cleaning, and I can't send it in to the manufacturer since the tip was ground to a chisel italic by Gretta Lostkemper (who used to oversee custom grinding at Sheaffer). Guess I need to get an ultrasonic cleaner and try that....
Fountain pens are great but that's only half the equation. You need to consider paper as well.
Because I'm usually using low quality paper, I mostly use ballpoint pens so that I can write on both sides of the page. Fountain pens can feel scratchy on cheap paper and the ink bleeds through.
Because I'm usually using low quality paper, I mostly use ballpoint pens so that I can write on both sides of the page. Fountain pens can feel scratchy on cheap paper and the ink bleeds through.
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Fountain pen requires some skill to write well. It's amazing in the hands of those who knows calligraphy and just creates extra smudges for those who are more used to normal pens.
It takes no time at all to figure out if your only real goal is "I wanna be able to use this as deftly as a regular pen". Really no more difficult than knowing how not to smudge marker by closing a book while it's still wet, for instance.
That's a very nice pen and I get the appeal. However, I've recently discovered Uni Jetstream pens, and I don't see ever buying anything else. There are nicer pen bodies out there but I've never used a pen that does a better job of putting ink on paper, reliably, every time, without ever skipping in the slightest, not requiring any significant pressure, working on every kind of paper, and drying instantly. For me, it writes as nicely as my fountain pens but with all the convenience of a ballpoint. They're also about $3 each, depending where you buy them, so they're dirt cheap as far as nicely-working pens go.
Jetstreams are great. Worth pointing out that you can buy refills in various form factors, including Parker style that'll fit the Rotring 600:
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-SXR-600-Jetstream-Ballpoint-Pen-...
I also recommend the 800 mechanical pencil which has a very satisfying twist-retract tip.
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-SXR-600-Jetstream-Ballpoint-Pen-...
I also recommend the 800 mechanical pencil which has a very satisfying twist-retract tip.
Why? Why would you do this to me?
Sighs and busts out the credit card.
Edit: it’s on its way. Curse you.
Sighs and busts out the credit card.
Edit: it’s on its way. Curse you.
The discovery of the jotter style refill led me down a path of trying many different inks for my Rotring 600. I ended up liking the OHTO ceramic rollerball quite well, partly for the ink, and also for the appearance of the nib, which I think suits the Rotring 600 nicely
Also a big fan of the Uniball, perviously was using Signo DXs, but have switched over to the Uniball One. I think that slightly thicker barrel helps with my handwriting. Also love the wire pocket clip.
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-One-F-Gel-Pen-0.5-mm-Faded-...
I do like the Rotring pencils over the pens, but still prefer Uni as I feel less bad about losing a Uni Kuru as it is cheaper and still has knurled grip. Also has a fun rotating lead.
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Roulette-Mechanical-Pe...
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-One-F-Gel-Pen-0.5-mm-Faded-...
I do like the Rotring pencils over the pens, but still prefer Uni as I feel less bad about losing a Uni Kuru as it is cheaper and still has knurled grip. Also has a fun rotating lead.
https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Roulette-Mechanical-Pe...
Those are very nice! I like the Uni Jetstream RT: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-Pen-...
It feels really nice to write with. I also have a Kuru Toga I picked up at a neat little stationery store on vacation, but I was reminded when I got home that I don't care for writing with pencils. Should that change, there it is waiting for me.
It feels really nice to write with. I also have a Kuru Toga I picked up at a neat little stationery store on vacation, but I was reminded when I got home that I don't care for writing with pencils. Should that change, there it is waiting for me.
I've picked up each color of the new metal body Kuru Toga, and they are an extra level of extravagance on an already perfect pencil: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Kuru-Toga-Metal-Mechanical-Penci...
Pigma Microns and Uniball One are my go-to pens. Previously it was Signo DXs as well. I think I prefer the barrel of the DX, but the wire clip and general appearance of the Uniball sold me.
Pigma Microns and Uniball One are my go-to pens. Previously it was Signo DXs as well. I think I prefer the barrel of the DX, but the wire clip and general appearance of the Uniball sold me.
I agree that, even though the Uni Pens write well, they look a tad uglier than their counterparts. I like rOtring’s heavier feel. I write with a fountain pen at most times when I’m at my desk but I always carry much simpler gel/ball pens. My daughters and I have settled on all sorts of rOtring and we are loving it.
have you tried pentel EnerGel?
I haven’t! Tell me what you think about it.
Imagine writing smoothly like butter as clouds part and angels sing.
Unfortunately, it’s not water safe, but it’s great. My favorite feature is that it dries REALLY quickly, so I can left-hand without smudging.
Unfortunately, it’s not water safe, but it’s great. My favorite feature is that it dries REALLY quickly, so I can left-hand without smudging.
The water safety is what nudged me off fountain pens and back to ballpoints. I use a bullet journal and don’t want water to wash it all away.
I know you can get fountain inks that are more resistant, but at that level of finickiness, I’d rather just carry a lower maintenance ballpoint, and the Jetstream is good enough that I don’t miss my other lovely pens.
PS: One time a reporter asked me what I thought of a particular food, and I described it as snacking on the wings of angels sent to earth for our dining pleasure, and they quoted me. My wife reminds me of this often.
Edit: Here’s the quote: https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://omaha.com/m...
I know you can get fountain inks that are more resistant, but at that level of finickiness, I’d rather just carry a lower maintenance ballpoint, and the Jetstream is good enough that I don’t miss my other lovely pens.
PS: One time a reporter asked me what I thought of a particular food, and I described it as snacking on the wings of angels sent to earth for our dining pleasure, and they quoted me. My wife reminds me of this often.
Edit: Here’s the quote: https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url=https://omaha.com/m...
Not the GP but I have (BL77), and much prefer the Jetstream.
+1 to EnerGel and the RSVP which are my two daily drivers.
You can buy a Uniball One-F (the premium body) and put Jetstream refills in there as a drop-in replacement.
Note though that for longevity in engineering notebooks I don’t like to use Jetstreams because of the yellowing seepage problem over time. But for everyday throwaway writing this setup is the ideal best of both worlds.
Note though that for longevity in engineering notebooks I don’t like to use Jetstreams because of the yellowing seepage problem over time. But for everyday throwaway writing this setup is the ideal best of both worlds.
Since you're kindly offering recommendations, what do you use for longevity in engineering notebooks?
If you want a low maintenance option, your best choice will be fade-proof pigment inked systems.
From top of my head:
Always use an acid-free higher quality paper. Leuchtturm 1917, Rhodia, Yu-Sari, Mnemosyne comes to my mind. Do NOT use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They are not designed for fountain pens.
From top of my head:
- UniBall Eye / Vision Elite's Red, Blue, Black and Green (look for fade-proof / water-poof note, or SuperINK)
- Sakura / Faber Castell / Rotring pigment inked, felt tip markers (Look for Archival Ink / Fade Resistant)
- Pelikan 4001 blue black (which is not sold in the US)
- Rohrer & Klinger's Iron Gall inks (scribosa, ebony, etc.)
- Noodler's "Bulletproof" series cellulose reactive inks.
- Lamy Blue Black
- Lamy Crystal Benitonite
- Montblanc Permanent Blue / Permanent Black
Always use an acid-free higher quality paper. Leuchtturm 1917, Rhodia, Yu-Sari, Mnemosyne comes to my mind. Do NOT use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They are not designed for fountain pens.
> Do NOT use Moleskine notebooks with fountain pens. They are not designed for fountain pens
Or for hard use in general. Well over priced for the quality of the paper and bindings.
Or for hard use in general. Well over priced for the quality of the paper and bindings.
What bothers me is, their notebooks were fine when they first came to market. I still have their old, filled notebooks with great bindings and paper, with spotless ink retention, incl. fountain pens.
They gradually reduced their quality, and created a “higher, more expensive tier” to offer their previous quality.
Leuchtturm 1917 is a world apart when compared to today’s Moleskine.
They gradually reduced their quality, and created a “higher, more expensive tier” to offer their previous quality.
Leuchtturm 1917 is a world apart when compared to today’s Moleskine.
Unironically, my favourite is the standard Bic Cristal medium 1.0mm in black, but placed inside a Bic Round Stic body that I’ve reused for many years (I prefer a plain gripless thin body, since I use a gentle finger-leverage posture for applying pressure variations which I learned from the Palmer script method)
Or, for gel-based, the Uniball Signo black ink is my second choice. I particularly like using the Signo GelStick 0.7mm which I can make line variations from hairlines to super broad strokes (again, the leverage-based force application is key for effortless pressure variation techniques)
Or, for gel-based, the Uniball Signo black ink is my second choice. I particularly like using the Signo GelStick 0.7mm which I can make line variations from hairlines to super broad strokes (again, the leverage-based force application is key for effortless pressure variation techniques)
What's the timeline for this? My undergrad notes from ~15 years ago have held up without obvious degradation. Those are mostly Jetstream inks on generic paper (some Oxford notebook). I swapped to fountain pens at some point when I discovered Noodler's. Bernanke Blue dries extremely fast. Though my TWSBIs from the time haven't held up well. They were fine when constantly used but they cracked in storage.
It somewhat depends on the humidity and temperature. I have not tested for controls, but I suspect it has to do with the low-viscosity oil component undergoing some process similar to paper chromatography where upon contact with moisture it separates from the pigment seeps to the back of the page.
What variant of Uni Jetstream pens? Because here are a few: SXN-150, SXN-210, etc. Thank you.
I've been using SXN-210 for over a decade and I love them.
Same here. I tried a lot of different pens and these are still the best.
I had a similar issue. I like the SXN-210, it has a removal cap and 1.0mm tip size.
I got a box of 12 for a few bucks from Amazon, here is the link since it's hard to search by model,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LD1NK
I got a box of 12 for a few bucks from Amazon, here is the link since it's hard to search by model,
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002LD1NK
This is what I’ve been using: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-ball-Jetstream-RT-Ballpoint-Pen-...
Although lately I’ve been using this multipen: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-Mult...
It’s nice having 3 colors of ink available, and it’s not that chunky blue thing we had in elementary school.
Although lately I’ve been using this multipen: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-Mult...
It’s nice having 3 colors of ink available, and it’s not that chunky blue thing we had in elementary school.
the Uni Jetstream and Power Tank carried me through university. Nothing I've ever tried comes close.
Oh if you like Jetstream, you'll love Uni Zento even more
I have several Rotring 600 (and 800) pencils. They're great and super grippy. If you have sweaty/slippery hands while writing, the Rotring 600 pen might be right up your alley.
As pencils go, though, lately I've been fond of the Uni Shift 0.9 mm. It's inexpensive; retracts for pocket carry; and I've never broken a lead with it. My only real complaint is that the eraser is minuscule and can't be reliably adjusted once the initial usable part is gone.
As pencils go, though, lately I've been fond of the Uni Shift 0.9 mm. It's inexpensive; retracts for pocket carry; and I've never broken a lead with it. My only real complaint is that the eraser is minuscule and can't be reliably adjusted once the initial usable part is gone.
Lol, the entire functional part of the pen is in the refill, except for the way you hold the pen.
I see no reason to go evangelical/Apple about it.
I see no reason to go evangelical/Apple about it.
[deleted]
It really feels more like an ad.
I was thinking the same thing. Why pay $20 - it's still a Parker pen if you use a Parker refill. This has little to do with the quality of writing and is more about bragging rights and social signaling.
Like Don Norman says, attractive things work better.
And there's always a good reason to go evangelical/Apple about it. A day you spend using tools that you love using is a better day than one where you are using tools that bring you no joy.
As far as evangelizing goes, I'm much more interested in the things you love than the things you hate.
And there's always a good reason to go evangelical/Apple about it. A day you spend using tools that you love using is a better day than one where you are using tools that bring you no joy.
As far as evangelizing goes, I'm much more interested in the things you love than the things you hate.
Be careful to not love your tools more than the things you create with them.
It's all in your mind. Simple tools are king. They allow you to be creative anytime, not just when holding the "right" tool.
It's all in your mind. Simple tools are king. They allow you to be creative anytime, not just when holding the "right" tool.
Everyone has a complex relationship with their muse.
Fetishizing gear such that you use lack of the right gear as an excuse to not create, or spend all your time acquiring gear and not using it is definitely toxic.
But, also fetishizing minimalism such that you end up with a process that is all self-flagelating toil and misery is also toxic.
Everyone's gotta navigate the boundary between those themselves.
Fetishizing gear such that you use lack of the right gear as an excuse to not create, or spend all your time acquiring gear and not using it is definitely toxic.
But, also fetishizing minimalism such that you end up with a process that is all self-flagelating toil and misery is also toxic.
Everyone's gotta navigate the boundary between those themselves.
In any case, being evangelical is by definition toxic behavior.
I've been using the rotring 800 mechanical pencil for a while now ... until it randomly broke down (no, I did not treat I strangely in every way or form). I'm using the - much cheaper - Kuru Toga Advance now ... which rotates the graphite slighly whenever I lift the pencil from the paper, leading to a sharper tip and thus a sharper script.
Plus, I am a lot less concerned with losing a 5 dollar pencil as compared to a 50 dollar pencil.
Plus, I am a lot less concerned with losing a 5 dollar pencil as compared to a 50 dollar pencil.
The rotring 800 0.5mm pencil has been a workhorse for me. My conditions were that it can handle being carried at all times and not stab me in the leg.
It's even survived going through clothes washing machine. The one part I had some minor annoyance with is the ring below the control to adjust tip retraction would loosen up when carried awhile. I originally used a bit of superglue which came out in the wash. Now I've added some loctite so it will probably never loosen again. Other than some finish wearing off it's been great for years.
Edit: oh I use pilot neox F graphite in it. Feels like writing with HB but it doesn't break as easy as I write with pretty heavy hands.
It's even survived going through clothes washing machine. The one part I had some minor annoyance with is the ring below the control to adjust tip retraction would loosen up when carried awhile. I originally used a bit of superglue which came out in the wash. Now I've added some loctite so it will probably never loosen again. Other than some finish wearing off it's been great for years.
Edit: oh I use pilot neox F graphite in it. Feels like writing with HB but it doesn't break as easy as I write with pretty heavy hands.
I had Rotring 600 pencil - absolutely loved it, best I’ve ever used.
But, its tip is very fragile so after it bent I got a Pentel Orenz Nero , it’s close enough, has retractable tip and lead auto advances. It has become my current favorite.
Fun fact: Orenz Nero is a palindrome.
But, its tip is very fragile so after it bent I got a Pentel Orenz Nero , it’s close enough, has retractable tip and lead auto advances. It has become my current favorite.
Fun fact: Orenz Nero is a palindrome.
> I had Rotring 600 pencil - absolutely loved it, best I’ve ever used.
> But, its tip is very fragile
I came here to say this. I have a rotring 600 mechanical pencil with non-retractable tip, and it bends if you even look at it funny. It can be straightened again if you insert a sewing needle so it was not a big deal, but it was unexpected how easy it bends.
Heck, I have to treat it even more carefully than my smartphone. Not that I treat it rough or anything, but I have to be very conscious of where I leave it, lest it rolls off and falls off a height of a few centimeters.
Other than that I don't regret buying it, it's been a few years and it still feels nice to use.
> But, its tip is very fragile
I came here to say this. I have a rotring 600 mechanical pencil with non-retractable tip, and it bends if you even look at it funny. It can be straightened again if you insert a sewing needle so it was not a big deal, but it was unexpected how easy it bends.
Heck, I have to treat it even more carefully than my smartphone. Not that I treat it rough or anything, but I have to be very conscious of where I leave it, lest it rolls off and falls off a height of a few centimeters.
Other than that I don't regret buying it, it's been a few years and it still feels nice to use.
I've only had bad experiences with Parker pens and refills, they just don't flow and fill the line as nicely and constantly as Pilot Hi-Tec and other Pilot pens.
I paid more than 20€ for a Parker pen with refills and it was worse than a 3€ Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint (which is my current favourite, I have it in black, red, green, blue and pink colours).
I paid more than 20€ for a Parker pen with refills and it was worse than a 3€ Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint (which is my current favourite, I have it in black, red, green, blue and pink colours).
Parker refills are a nightmare. I have tested both the Indian brand and the French brand of QuinkFlow several times, and they are all horrible. Atrocious. I got some Monteverde, Pelikan and Schneier refills and they work well.
If you can get a compatible Monteverde, it is great. Schneier is also very nice, but hybrid. Pelikan has the pelikan blue style, you either love it or hate it. QuinkFlow... ok, whoever says they are fine, send me that legendary "fine" refill I keep hearing about.
If you can get a compatible Monteverde, it is great. Schneier is also very nice, but hybrid. Pelikan has the pelikan blue style, you either love it or hate it. QuinkFlow... ok, whoever says they are fine, send me that legendary "fine" refill I keep hearing about.
Ive had good luck with ‘Monteverde Capless Gel Ballpoint’ refills for my Rotring 600s.
Pilot V5 Hi-Tecpoint has been my favourite for the last ~20 years. I'm not a heavy user, so one pen lasts for years as an added bonus.
Most of the best pens refills are made by japanese companies (eg. Pilot, Zebra, Uni-ball, etc.) and Parker style is nonexistant in that country. If you look at any "top XX best pens" lists online, the vast majority is not avaible in Parker. And when they are, they usually have fewer color and size options.
It's very disapointing to see brand new nice pen designs that only support Parker refills.
It's very disapointing to see brand new nice pen designs that only support Parker refills.
As a regular user of the Rotring 600, I recommend getting the EasyFlow 9000 refill for super smooth writing. It’s true that a ballpoint pen is just a vehicle for the refill, but the Rotring 600 is a pretty nice vehicle.
All that said, I reach for my Lamy Safari first. I also have a Pilot Vanishing Point as my “grail pen”, and while it’s a cool fountain pen, I don’t love the feel on paper.
All that said, I reach for my Lamy Safari first. I also have a Pilot Vanishing Point as my “grail pen”, and while it’s a cool fountain pen, I don’t love the feel on paper.
I too have gone with fountain pens as my every day pen. There's zero waste with a bottle of ink and a cartridge. I find that the variety of inks to be superior too.
True! I specifically use Noodler's Bernanke Black ink because it's fast-drying. I'm left-handed, and I can easily smear ink as I write if it doesn't dry quickly. Left-to-right writing definitely favors right-handed people.
Oh, good grief, in that case you might want to start with a Pilot medium (roughly equivalent to a German no. 5 'fine') and work down from there. Without wishing to invite contumely on the sometimes extremely fractious topic that can be Noodler's inks, I will say my experience is that all the feed and nib throughput you can possibly give them will never really be too much, especially in Japanese pens.
I don't like the EasyFlow 9000 very well, because even on Clairefontaine paper it doesn't live up to its name. I have one in an Ohto Rays for the retro vibe, but it's the pen I keep in my bag to have something nice I won't mind giving away. Even compared to Ohto's stock gel refill, the EasyFlow just writes lousy.
Try moving one nib size up with the Vanishing Point, especially if you're used to Western pens. Pilot's EF is sharp enough to draw blood and you'll never really break it in; the F starts out a little rough but wears in nicely. Too, the Vanishing Point itself I found a little big and heavy for real comfort, both in the hand and in a shirt pocket. The Decimo is mechanically identical but smaller and lighter, enough so that it's my go-to pen for almost every purpose, even sitting alongside a Parker 51 Deluxe.
Try moving one nib size up with the Vanishing Point, especially if you're used to Western pens. Pilot's EF is sharp enough to draw blood and you'll never really break it in; the F starts out a little rough but wears in nicely. Too, the Vanishing Point itself I found a little big and heavy for real comfort, both in the hand and in a shirt pocket. The Decimo is mechanically identical but smaller and lighter, enough so that it's my go-to pen for almost every purpose, even sitting alongside a Parker 51 Deluxe.
I'll check out the Decimo! And maybe I should just size up my Vanishing Point nib. I've had it for a few years and it's just too scratchy.
I have a few other fun (relatively) cheap fountain pens I like: brass Kaweko Sport, Muji fountain pen, other random finds. However, the downside of fountain pens if that if you don't use them, you end up with a bunch of clogged nibs.
I have a few other fun (relatively) cheap fountain pens I like: brass Kaweko Sport, Muji fountain pen, other random finds. However, the downside of fountain pens if that if you don't use them, you end up with a bunch of clogged nibs.
It's worth going deep more than broad, in my view, and taking an intentionally instrumental interest in the tool; fountain pens have never been a hobby for me, but rather a means in support of my practices as a notetaker and diarist, to the tune of 25 A5 volumes and about 4100 pages' worth since early 2018. These days it takes me four or five pages at once to notice any tiring or discomfort, and no pen that insists on itself even slightly could hold up to that kind of expectation. (Indeed I judge the Decimo more favorably than the 51 precisely because the latter pen tries my endurance much more, especially when I post its overweight and unbalancing cap.) Think of it like photography or high-end audio; here too we see the same sharply unfavorable knee in the middle of the price/performance curve, past which returns rapidly diminish and one mostly ceases to impress the savvy with anything beyond one's readiness to spend. (D850, not M10 Monochrom; HD6XX, not HD 800 S.)
I mean, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a $1000 handmade Pilot Urushi but I surely also would not buy one, not at least unless I meant to try to make flirting with ambassadors more than a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It's a beautiful pen and I'm sure it functions superlatively! Just that it belongs in far finer and less hardly used hands than mine. Good grief, I sometimes feel I make even my Decimo look like a sewing needle, and that isn't really at all a small pen, being by mechanical necessity about as long as its thicker, heavier sibling. But it also by far is the tool best fit to my hand of all the ones I've ever tried, and that's what counts, right?
(One final note worth making: the Decimo and Vanishing Point bodies are designed around the same nib unit, which I believe originated with the initial "Capless" models in the sixties. If you order a Decimo with the next nib size up from what you have in your Vanishing Point, then, the nibs and bodies will be fully cross-compatible!)
I mean, I wouldn't turn my nose up at a $1000 handmade Pilot Urushi but I surely also would not buy one, not at least unless I meant to try to make flirting with ambassadors more than a once-in-a-lifetime thing. It's a beautiful pen and I'm sure it functions superlatively! Just that it belongs in far finer and less hardly used hands than mine. Good grief, I sometimes feel I make even my Decimo look like a sewing needle, and that isn't really at all a small pen, being by mechanical necessity about as long as its thicker, heavier sibling. But it also by far is the tool best fit to my hand of all the ones I've ever tried, and that's what counts, right?
(One final note worth making: the Decimo and Vanishing Point bodies are designed around the same nib unit, which I believe originated with the initial "Capless" models in the sixties. If you order a Decimo with the next nib size up from what you have in your Vanishing Point, then, the nibs and bodies will be fully cross-compatible!)
11 years ago I bought a Faber Castell - Essentio Ballpoint Pen, Carbon Black - #148888 [0], 22€ at that time, and I absolutely love it. I use it every day, just for writings something on post-its or on labels.
One of the few grips that don't get sticky over the years, feels good in the hand and looks nice. The clip is of metal which does stick to magnets, so it's easy to attach to places like a monitor or a lamp.
[0] https://www.fabercastell.com/products/essentio-ballpoint-pen...
One of the few grips that don't get sticky over the years, feels good in the hand and looks nice. The clip is of metal which does stick to magnets, so it's easy to attach to places like a monitor or a lamp.
[0] https://www.fabercastell.com/products/essentio-ballpoint-pen...
We have this "Nataraj Glow" ballpoint pen in India that you can get for 1 INR a pop. I bought a whole lot of them (100s) during school many years back and still use them. I lost pens regularly but it really didn't matter since I'd go back home to 99 more. Since school my pen usage has dropped significantly, but I still find them lying around the house strewn about here and there for when I need them. Love them, never needed anything else personally. The best thing about them is that they don't dry out or break or leak easily, so you can treat your pens with neglect, disrespect and be generally forgetful, e.g, losing the cap, putting it in the washing machine, etc, without paying for it in any way.
They are thrice as expensive (3 INR) now, but that's still throwaway money: https://www.amazon.in/Nataraj-Glow-Ball-Blue-Pack/dp/B0DF7YC...
They are thrice as expensive (3 INR) now, but that's still throwaway money: https://www.amazon.in/Nataraj-Glow-Ball-Blue-Pack/dp/B0DF7YC...
If you're looking for a super cheap pen, check french BIC pens: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=bic+pen&ia=images&iax=image... ; it's less than €0.30 ($0.35)
and don't stop on the price ; this pen is amazing,
it's actually one of the recommended tool, used by the super talented and proefficient korean drawing artist Kim Jung Gi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmqFbgKWoao (not sure he uses it in this video) ; Kim is known to be able to draw anything from memory
you can see him drawing with the BIC pen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_IDH1TzFs&t=1231s (video: Kim Jung Gi - What Kind of Pen Do You Use?)
and don't stop on the price ; this pen is amazing,
it's actually one of the recommended tool, used by the super talented and proefficient korean drawing artist Kim Jung Gi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmqFbgKWoao (not sure he uses it in this video) ; Kim is known to be able to draw anything from memory
you can see him drawing with the BIC pen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_IDH1TzFs&t=1231s (video: Kim Jung Gi - What Kind of Pen Do You Use?)
I have a 600 and 800 mechanical pencil. Love them, the feel can’t be beat - only by the (significantly cheaper) Pentel Graphgear 1000.
Love the rotring pencils.
If you haven't already, give the Alvin Draft/Matic a try, imho it's up there along with them.
If you haven't already, give the Alvin Draft/Matic a try, imho it's up there along with them.
Love Pentel Graphear 1000, have multiple distributed throughout the house/workshop and backpacks :)
The other I really like is UNI Kuru Toga, the plastic one (shrug). The twist mechanism actually works; it is slightly wider thus more comfortable (for me) for longer writing sessions.
The other I really like is UNI Kuru Toga, the plastic one (shrug). The twist mechanism actually works; it is slightly wider thus more comfortable (for me) for longer writing sessions.
The twist mechanism really does work, but unfortunately it is easy to damage (for me). I damaged two kuru togas in the span of 6 months, very frustrating. The twist still works, but it is very wonky.
In my case - as my basic Kuru Toga died last week, the plastic of the casing just under the mechanism / just at the end of the body next to the rim broke down - because of the pressure i'm assuming, still a great pencil. I'm buying the advance one next.
Graphgear 500 is also excellent, though without a retractable tip. I think those who like the grip of a rotring would prefer it over the 1000.
I think the Rotring 500 pencils are better than the 600s. They're very similar except instead of a full metal body, only the grip is metal, and the rest plastic. This makes them lighter, and moves the center of gravity closer to the tip, which makes them easier to control.
I am going to derail the conversation from the pen and into the refills.
As a left-handed that refuses to twist their hand to avoid smudging everything: what refills brands offer the best dry time to avoid black or blue smudges?
As a left-handed that refuses to twist their hand to avoid smudging everything: what refills brands offer the best dry time to avoid black or blue smudges?
I've tried everything under the sun and they all smudge.
Roting pencil it is.
Roting pencil it is.
I found iroshizuku inks faster drying than the other brands I've tried. Paper matters a lot too, I've experimented with many and finally settled on Rhodia.
I’m a fan of Parker’s iroshizuku inks too. I don’t know why, but ink from a bottle seems to end up not drying inside the pen like cartridges do.
I have good memories of the Parker ones. But honestly I started using a (refillable) Pilot V5 in uni and never went back. It only really smudges if you leave the pen in the same spot for quite some time (very rare). But writing is a breeze and the black is _actually_ black.
I'm also left-handed and I find this uni jetstream to dry pretty quickly: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-Standard-Ballpoint-Pen...
I have some Zebra SARASA dry X20 pens that dry instantly. Even if I quickly scribble a bunch of circles then immediately wipe my hand over it, the ink doesn't smear at all.
Zebra Sarasa are the best for avoiding smudges. Using a finer point (eg. going from 0.5mm to 0.4mm) helps a lot.
Still raging that a Rotring Quattro is the only pen which I have lost (twice!) since I was a junior in high school over four decades ago. Did finally manage to get a replacement for the second one I lost, but if anyone ever sees a special edition Rotring Quattro as sold by Levenger w/ rubber coating for sale, let me know.
That said, these days I just carry a Skilcraft B3 Aviator as a slimmer, more pocketable multi-pen option (though I'm on my second, broke the clip of the first and haven't worked out how to disassemble and replace it).
That said, these days I just carry a Skilcraft B3 Aviator as a slimmer, more pocketable multi-pen option (though I'm on my second, broke the clip of the first and haven't worked out how to disassemble and replace it).
I've had a Lamy Swift (palladium) for about 8 years now. It's a great pen with a unique clip mechanism. The Lamy rollerball refills are really nice, but they don't have a fine point version, so be ready for thick lines. I actually like the broad tip though. I just checked the Lamy website, and it looks like this pen has basically doubled in price since I bought it... yikes.
The grip part peels the skin off a bit, which paradoxically results in low end UX, I wish they've put much looser grid there
I had the fountain pen version of this in the 1980s. It seemed very sturdy, as if it was machined from a solid piece of metal.
There is a parker-style 0.5mm point refill from jetstream (Uniball Jetstream SXR-600) that I used in my Rotring 600. Thin point and dries instantly, very nice for taking quick notes. However for the last year I have switched to a Jetstream Edge 0,28 mm point pen which unfortunately does not fit the Rotring 600.
I went with a Sarasa Grand body and JLV-0.5 Sarasa Dry refills. Being left-handed I tend to smudge a lot. The fast-dry formula Zebra came up with is perfect. I get thick, precise lines and no smudging regardless of how fast I write.
Those refills might fit this barrel, might be worth checking out if you're a lefty.
Those refills might fit this barrel, might be worth checking out if you're a lefty.
I haven't bought a Rotring in decades (and the Rotring rapidographs I do have still hold up), and wouldn't at this stage given the decline in build quality since their buy-up from Newell (although I hear their APAC product is subcontracted to Holbein, which still has a great rep).
Along these lines, does anyone have recommendations for a nice (as in: overpriced and pretty, just like with OP) setup for drawing/sketching diagrams, as a programmer might need to to do map out a problem?
I'm thinking ~pencils~ (edit: felt-tip pens) in various colors, and good paper.
I'm thinking ~pencils~ (edit: felt-tip pens) in various colors, and good paper.
I can't speak for variously-coloured pencils, but I've had a lot of success with a grid-ruled moleskine (I usually went for hardcover, but after accidentally ordering a soft cover, I'm warming up to it) and a Rotring 0.5mm mechanical pencil with Pentel 2H leads.
For colours, I tend to use the Bic 4-in-one coloured pen (the one with the blue bottom and white top), though I don't bring that out often.
For colours, I tend to use the Bic 4-in-one coloured pen (the one with the blue bottom and white top), though I don't bring that out often.
I mentioned in another post, but you need to try the Uni version of that Bic. I got a 3 color. I feels only slightly larger than a regular pen, and writes vastly better than the Bic. They’re more expensive in absolutely terms but still around $6.
Do you have a shopping link or SKU? I'm having some trouble finding it, but it sounds compelling!
They may be thinking of the "uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal Edition" with black/red/bluegreen Jetstream ballpoints, plus a 0.5mm Mechanical Pencil: https://www.amazon.com/uni-Jetstream-Ballpoint-Mechanical-MS... or https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-4-1-Metal-4-Color-0.5-...
Close. I got this one: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-3-Color-Ballpoint-Mult...
Oh wow, those both look fantastic. I'll see if someplace local might carry these. Thanks for the links, both!
Why do you use 2H leads? I can't imagine writing in something so light, even HB lead is too light for me.
I second the Uni Jetstream 4&1 Metal. It is my daily driver for highlighting (color) and annotations (pencil), and the Jetstream inks are very smooth.
For loose leaf paper that takes ink and markers well, use "color copy digital" paper.
For loose leaf paper that takes ink and markers well, use "color copy digital" paper.
I use a Rotring 600 3-in-1 and it's excellent. Although I prefer the way Uni Kuru writes as it rotates the lead as you write making everything very even. Having a very good pencil + two coloured pens in your hand is just awesome.
I've had my Rotring 600 mechanical pencil for 10 years and I might need to add the ballpoint variant soon. I see some people mentioning that the new Rotrings aren't as good, which is a shame.
I'd like to try this, but it is quite expensive compared to Zebra Sarasa or Pentel Energel. The metal body is interesting, I wonder how different is the weight and feel to pens with plastic body.
I love the Zebra F-701. I'm also going to try the pen in this review, but wanted to give a recommendation to the F-701, as someone who hates to write, I like that pen.
I use one and it feels very heavy, almost unnaturally heavy, and indestructibly solid.
Not at all uncomfortable once you get used to it, but the first time I pick it up after a few days my reaction is still always “wow that’s heavy”.
Not at all uncomfortable once you get used to it, but the first time I pick it up after a few days my reaction is still always “wow that’s heavy”.
The difference in feel is significant.
What is best is a personal preference. Some people like their pens to be as light as possible. Personally I far prefer the solid weight of my Rotring 600s. So I recommend that you try it out.
What is best is a personal preference. Some people like their pens to be as light as possible. Personally I far prefer the solid weight of my Rotring 600s. So I recommend that you try it out.
I used a Trio-pencil extensively during my educative years. Beauty in writing and diagram drawing made it enjoyable and helped to focus. I still have it. With a nice patina. Still functioning.
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I feel that modern manufacturing technology should have given us this combination of a few simple metal parts at far less than $60 by now.
I think I'm happy with my fisher space pens.
I put a Space Pen refill into my Tactile Turn bolt action pen* and I've been happy with it as a daily driver for about 5 years now.
* If you want one that's got regular pen dimensions and will fit in a breast pocket, get the slim model with the short length.
* If you want one that's got regular pen dimensions and will fit in a breast pocket, get the slim model with the short length.
My favorite pens are the Frixxion pens. You can erase them, and it actually works well.
I like them too, but they get empty quickly. Only a fraction of the cartridge is ink. The majority is plug gel and pressurised air. Apparently that’s required for it to function properly.
the erasing part is what frightens me ; putting your document near a heating device erases your writings (the heat produced by the friction of the eraser is what remove the ink when you do it manually)
The ink gets its color back if you put the paper in the freezer
Since we’re all sounding off on preferred pens, the Pilot Precise v5 is my go to (blue).
Seems it’s laughable to some out there, but’s been trusty for me!
https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=36&cid=271
Seems it’s laughable to some out there, but’s been trusty for me!
https://pilotpen.us/Product?0=40&1=36&cid=271
There’s nothing laughable about that! I adored those in math classes where I was adding tiny notes around things. They were my favorite for a while.
Sell me this pen.
Ok you win.
Ok you win.
I am probably an uneducated cretin, but I have my preferences anyway.
I am in Denmark, and in Denmark, you can get "sharpie pens" () from the brand LYRECO, which I am very fond of, particularly of their high quality and durability.
There is a personal story (for me at least..) regarding them.
More than a decade ago, I worked for many years for a specific company, which had its good and bad sides. One major upside, was that their employee equipment supply included LYRECO pens. So I basically had free access to black/red/blue LYRECO pens.
I am not a career criminal as such, but simply through basic negligence, occasionally one of those pens would wander in my pockets, briefcases or binders, back to my residence, through no active ill will, and be left lying around some random place. Mind you, these are "cheap" sharpie pens, so I am probably not going to jail anytime soon because of this.
However you choose to interpret or describe it, in the end some number of those pens, larger than 1, but less than 10, ended up in random places in my house/possession.
Up until now, this is not a particularly ravishing story. But this is about to change (?). The issue is, those MF's won't stop writing! They ended up in my possession by now more than 10 years ago, but when I pull one of them out, they still write! So, a sharpie-style (sort of) pen, that still writes well more than 10 years later!
Of course, they eventually dry out, when I exhaust them of ink through use. But the 10 years of age has not dried them out. And further, they appear very well provisioned with ink. This story could end here, but there is another twist: Of course, I quite love these pens, and I really would like my own supply. But here is the kicker: They are not available to civilians/consumers :-(. LYRECO only wants to trade with companies. So to be able to buy my own, I would have to start or register a company. (In particular, to fill out their online order forms, I have to fill in mandatory fields with numeric codes only companies have). So, at various times, I have filled out most of their online ordering forms, and stared longingly at the empty fields I have no numbers for. I have also, on other websites, started to fill out the registration form to start my own one-man company. But never completed it, both because I don't have a valid business case other than "I'd really like some of those pens, man!", and because having a registerered company requires you to follow certain procedures, like filing specific tax forms regularly, IE I could get into trouble and bother by making a "fake company". The last issue is, that I also am paranoid, speculating that maybe the late-stage capitalism monsters have arrived at LYRECO's offices in the intervening 10 years, and whispered in some guy's ear "You know.. we don't really have to make our pens THAT GOOD, we could ship shit instead and charge the same!"
() I don't know what their actual type is. They are filt pens I guess, with the 'filt' sticking out of what I assume to be a steel tube.
Up until now, this is not a particularly ravishing story. But this is about to change (?). The issue is, those MF's won't stop writing! They ended up in my possession by now more than 10 years ago, but when I pull one of them out, they still write! So, a sharpie-style (sort of) pen, that still writes well more than 10 years later!
Of course, they eventually dry out, when I exhaust them of ink through use. But the 10 years of age has not dried them out. And further, they appear very well provisioned with ink. This story could end here, but there is another twist: Of course, I quite love these pens, and I really would like my own supply. But here is the kicker: They are not available to civilians/consumers :-(. LYRECO only wants to trade with companies. So to be able to buy my own, I would have to start or register a company. (In particular, to fill out their online order forms, I have to fill in mandatory fields with numeric codes only companies have). So, at various times, I have filled out most of their online ordering forms, and stared longingly at the empty fields I have no numbers for. I have also, on other websites, started to fill out the registration form to start my own one-man company. But never completed it, both because I don't have a valid business case other than "I'd really like some of those pens, man!", and because having a registerered company requires you to follow certain procedures, like filing specific tax forms regularly, IE I could get into trouble and bother by making a "fake company". The last issue is, that I also am paranoid, speculating that maybe the late-stage capitalism monsters have arrived at LYRECO's offices in the intervening 10 years, and whispered in some guy's ear "You know.. we don't really have to make our pens THAT GOOD, we could ship shit instead and charge the same!"
() I don't know what their actual type is. They are filt pens I guess, with the 'filt' sticking out of what I assume to be a steel tube.
Note: I should probably call these 'felt tip pen' instead of sharpies. They are writing implements, not for kids drawing.
Yawn. My Lamy Unic has a telescoping tip.
https://unsharpen.com/pen/lamy-unic-ballpoint/
https://unsharpen.com/pen/lamy-unic-ballpoint/
Hah, that is indeed a fine looking writing instrument. I have the fountain pen from the same range. It has a similar hinged pocket clip and the machining is beautiful.
I’ve found many interesting products via HN recommendations. Do you have any more interesting pens?
I’ve found many interesting products via HN recommendations. Do you have any more interesting pens?
The next step could be Montblanc ballpoint pens, but that's a very different level where it comes to money; the writing experience is far beyond that of most ballpoint pens at a sub-100-USD range.
Then there's fountain pens, which is a whole new ballpark... If that interests yourself, I recommend these brands: Platinum, LAMY, Pelikan, Sailor, Montblanc, Pilot, and Nakaya, in no particular order.
Then there's fountain pens, which is a whole new ballpark... If that interests yourself, I recommend these brands: Platinum, LAMY, Pelikan, Sailor, Montblanc, Pilot, and Nakaya, in no particular order.
One advantage of the Rotring is that they haven't been discontinued, so you can actually buy one for a reasonable price.
0. https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1fzacf9/...
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/mechanicalpencils/comments/1439ru7/...