The AT&T Next Hustle(don.citarella.net)
don.citarella.net
The AT&T Next Hustle
http://don.citarella.net/2015/06/23/att-next-hustle/
37 comments
I'll never understand how Next disparagers get their numbers. The screenshot [1] clearly shows $21.67 per month for 30 months ($650.10).
Next is effectively 0% installment loan for buying a new device with the (admittedly terrible) option of terminating the contract and returning the device for a new Next contract.
[1] http://i1.wp.com/don.citarella.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/0...
Next is effectively 0% installment loan for buying a new device with the (admittedly terrible) option of terminating the contract and returning the device for a new Next contract.
[1] http://i1.wp.com/don.citarella.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/0...
Yes except you are paying a high retail price for the phone. I paid $100 for a top-of-the-line phone and the rest was subsidized in my contract price, I didn't have to pay an installment plan. Yeah, if the phone lasted more than two years it would be an okay deal but how often does a smartphone ever last that long without being lost, broken, or obsolete?
You are better off buying it somewhere else--even on a credit card--and staying on the old $15/mo contract.
You are better off buying it somewhere else--even on a credit card--and staying on the old $15/mo contract.
It's closer to a lease though, no? If you use the [upgrade] option prior to making the final payment, you have to return the phone.
If you make the final payment, and then choose to upgrade, do you get to keep the phone you've been paying for (i.e. an installment loan), or must you return it (aka, a lease)?
If you make the final payment, and then choose to upgrade, do you get to keep the phone you've been paying for (i.e. an installment loan), or must you return it (aka, a lease)?
If you pay off the entire amount, you keep the device. If you upgrade before the contract ends, you have the option of paying off the remaining amount and keeping it (or returning it).
It's most likely a terrible idea to return the device instead of paying off and selling it, and AT&T probably makes free money from that, but the rest of the plan is pretty reasonable.
It's most likely a terrible idea to return the device instead of paying off and selling it, and AT&T probably makes free money from that, but the rest of the plan is pretty reasonable.
This is what I've always understood to be the case, just never return the device, pay it off and sell it on craigslist/ebay (which I've done 4+ times without any issues).
It's actually worse than this article states. If you get the "AT&T Next 24" plan that just means you can upgrade to a new phone after 24 months. You are actually agreeing to make 30 payments so you end up with $56 tax plus $29 x 30 or $926.
Edit: Also note that you are only eligible for upgrading after 24 months if your phone is in good condition--no cracks, chips, etc. If your phone breaks not only do you have to buy a new one, but you have to keep paying for the old one for 30 months!
Edit: Also note that you are only eligible for upgrading after 24 months if your phone is in good condition--no cracks, chips, etc. If your phone breaks not only do you have to buy a new one, but you have to keep paying for the old one for 30 months!
It's nowhere near being "worse" than the article states. The Next plans are literally just $0 down, 0% interest installment plans. It's exactly what T-Mobile is doing, except AT&T does a really shitty job of explaining how it works and, instead of having you pay $10 for Jump to trade-in whenever you want, you can opt to trade it in a few months before the payments finish.
My friend's T-Mobile phone broke halfway through her installment plan. She had to buy a new one and still pay for her old, broken one for the next year.
My friend's T-Mobile phone broke halfway through her installment plan. She had to buy a new one and still pay for her old, broken one for the next year.
It actually is worse than the article states because he calculated it at 24 months but he should have calculated it at 30 months. And if you lose, break, or even crack your phone before the 30 months--which isn't at all uncommon--you still have to pay for the old one and a new one.
How is that "worse"? They have two other installment duration options.
Again, though, that's the same thing that happens if you break your phone on T-Mobile before 24 months if you don't have Jump, which not everyone has.
Again, though, that's the same thing that happens if you break your phone on T-Mobile before 24 months if you don't have Jump, which not everyone has.
Monthly cost is $21.67 under Next 24.
I just went through this "fun" several months ago. I was and still am livid. The rate increase for the 2 year contract is a horrible tactic used by them to increase the bottom line.
What I did was simply call and threaten to leave. They offered me over $400 in credits. During that call I found out I can get my normal line price by simply paying off my phones early. Note I had the 2 year contract when I upgraded. The plan was to pay them off once I went through my credit after 3 months and switch to cricket. When the time came I paid off my phones (2 phones at about $350 a piece + tax). When I called to pay them off the lady had to get a manager approval because she didn't know how to do it. Long story short I am not yet with cricket, because I can't find a cheap tablet only option (I travel a lot). This and other billing practices really put piss me off about att (combined billing)
What I did was simply call and threaten to leave. They offered me over $400 in credits. During that call I found out I can get my normal line price by simply paying off my phones early. Note I had the 2 year contract when I upgraded. The plan was to pay them off once I went through my credit after 3 months and switch to cricket. When the time came I paid off my phones (2 phones at about $350 a piece + tax). When I called to pay them off the lady had to get a manager approval because she didn't know how to do it. Long story short I am not yet with cricket, because I can't find a cheap tablet only option (I travel a lot). This and other billing practices really put piss me off about att (combined billing)
Unless my (read: everyone whom this affects) bill(s) actually drops by a corresponding amount of $ then this Next doesn't seem worth it. Many of us pay $200 for a phone and the rest is subsidized by signing the contract for 2 years. Why would I want to pay $650 + the same monthly payment for 2 years for the same phone? Upgrade early? If I stick with iPhones and can tolerate not having the newest one every 1 year vs. every 2 years then this has no benefit. This may only serve to benefit those who A. keep their phones in good condition and B. have Android or other non-iPhones where a newer model is introduced more than once a year.
At first I thought this was an obvious scam. Then I realized, when I upgrade my phone, the old one just sits in a drawer. In general, I can't be bothered to actually sell my old devices. So, maybe it isn't so bad.
Several places have a buyback program. I used Amazon for my last phones. Didn't get as much as if I sold them myself, but it was painless. I had 2 iPhone 5s and got around $200 for each. They give you Amazon credit which is not as good as cash, but I still used it for things I needed for around the house.
If Apple feels the phone is worth $600, and you're getting the phone new, you're only going to be able to pay $200 for it if AT&T pays the rest for you.
Isn't loading for me, here's text-only cached version:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:don.cit...
The worst deal is for new users that are stuck paying the $40/month if they don't want Next. Thank goodness they weren't allowed to buy T-Mobile.
I'm on this plan with my family and recommend everyone (if possible) to coral family/friends to do the same.
It's six of us who share 20gigs a month. Each of us pays $50 a month for the data and unlimited text/talk. Further, we can upgrade annually by returning our phones in good condition (have an otter box so it's solid) and pay an upgrade fee.
I use about 6 gigs a month while the others about 2 gigs.
It's six of us who share 20gigs a month. Each of us pays $50 a month for the data and unlimited text/talk. Further, we can upgrade annually by returning our phones in good condition (have an otter box so it's solid) and pay an upgrade fee.
I use about 6 gigs a month while the others about 2 gigs.
Ha this isn't spam just someone who use to have their own plan and was paying more then double for a lesser service(sprint).
I assume Apple store employees don't try to sway people into Next when buying in the Apple store?
Why would you even start down this hideouslly complicated system instead of just getting a T-Mobile or Boost or similar plan, and buying a retail phone. (Preferably a $200 Anroid , or a uaed iPhone, instead of a $600 iPhone)
The "hustle" only shows up when you sign up for the incredibly expensive systems and then try to find a loophole.
The "hustle" only shows up when you sign up for the incredibly expensive systems and then try to find a loophole.
>buying a retail phone
For the same reason people very rarely pay cash for a house. They can't afford it.
The AT&T Next Plan is a reasonable compromise for people who want a new smartphone and cannot afford to pay 200-500$ up front.
For the same reason people very rarely pay cash for a house. They can't afford it.
The AT&T Next Plan is a reasonable compromise for people who want a new smartphone and cannot afford to pay 200-500$ up front.
That doesn't make it any less of a hustle and probably why rent-to-own places still get customers. So yeah if you have to have the most expensive phones but can't afford them you will do this.
The thing is they are pretty much forcing everyone into these plans by almost doubling the old plan prices. Plus the old family plans are no longer cheaper if you don't have a smartphone and don't use data--you pay the same price for all phones.
The thing is they are pretty much forcing everyone into these plans by almost doubling the old plan prices. Plus the old family plans are no longer cheaper if you don't have a smartphone and don't use data--you pay the same price for all phones.
>That doesn't make it any less of a hustle.
Still not quite understanding your use of this word. How can the deal be a fraud or swindle if the terms are given up front? Let's set aside the argument about whether you think it's a good deal or not, as that is not the meaning of the word "hustle".
They're not intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.
They're not signing you up for something and then changing the terms.
As far as I can tell, the word hustle is being used here to mean "trying to convince people that a product is a better deal than it is." But again, this is a matter of opinion and situation. What is a good deal for you may not be available to others because of the up front cost
And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract.
Still not quite understanding your use of this word. How can the deal be a fraud or swindle if the terms are given up front? Let's set aside the argument about whether you think it's a good deal or not, as that is not the meaning of the word "hustle".
They're not intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.
They're not signing you up for something and then changing the terms.
As far as I can tell, the word hustle is being used here to mean "trying to convince people that a product is a better deal than it is." But again, this is a matter of opinion and situation. What is a good deal for you may not be available to others because of the up front cost
And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract.
intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.
signing you up for something and then changing the terms. - fraud
And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract. - hustle
I've paid $175/month for 3 lines (2 are unlimited data and 1 is 2gb) for over 8 years now and I've always bought the $199 iPhone (with upgrade). A comparable plan with high-capped data (closest you can get to unlimited) runs only a little bit more ($185-190) for 3 lines. When I recently went to upgrade I was offered Next and the monthly cost wouldn't have been any cheaper for the lines yet I'd have had to pay an extra $2X.XX/month for the phone. Trying to persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle. It isn't fraud since there's no bait and switch. They're just bullshitting.
signing you up for something and then changing the terms. - fraud
And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract. - hustle
I've paid $175/month for 3 lines (2 are unlimited data and 1 is 2gb) for over 8 years now and I've always bought the $199 iPhone (with upgrade). A comparable plan with high-capped data (closest you can get to unlimited) runs only a little bit more ($185-190) for 3 lines. When I recently went to upgrade I was offered Next and the monthly cost wouldn't have been any cheaper for the lines yet I'd have had to pay an extra $2X.XX/month for the phone. Trying to persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle. It isn't fraud since there's no bait and switch. They're just bullshitting.
intopieces - I can't reply to your comment so I'll post my reply here. There are different terms and benefits. They're not exactly alike. What you're saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want and that's dishonest." This is patently false and not what I said or meant. What is the hustle about this is trying to persuade me that their deal is better when it is in fact, not.
Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point! My point is that the deals are as close as they can and they were trying to A. persuade me to pay more money, B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data and C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I normally don't.
In addition, I've never paid an ETF as ETF means Early Termination Fee and since I clearly stated I complete the full contract then there would not be any ETF.
Summary: AT&T Next is a hustle for most of their customers.
Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point! My point is that the deals are as close as they can and they were trying to A. persuade me to pay more money, B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data and C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I normally don't.
In addition, I've never paid an ETF as ETF means Early Termination Fee and since I clearly stated I complete the full contract then there would not be any ETF.
Summary: AT&T Next is a hustle for most of their customers.
>A. persuade me to pay more money
>C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I normally don't.
Now we've gotten to the real hustle -- you think that when you buy your phone from AT&T on contract, that you don't pay the full price of the phone. You do, actually. Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone.
http://m.att.com/shopmobile/wireless/next-calculate-the-valu...
>B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data Here's where we get to your real complaint. This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here.
Now we've gotten to the real hustle -- you think that when you buy your phone from AT&T on contract, that you don't pay the full price of the phone. You do, actually. Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone.
http://m.att.com/shopmobile/wireless/next-calculate-the-valu...
>B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data Here's where we get to your real complaint. This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here.
subsidy
noun sub·si·dy \ˈsəb-sə-dē, -zə-\
: money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function
: a grant or gift of money: as a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation b : money granted by one state to another c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public
Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone. What about before AT&T Next? I think what you're missing is the contract price doesn't magically drop after you "pay off" the phone if it is subsidized. Therefore if it doesn't drop then it was never really increased seeing as the plan prices are the same whether you buy a phone or not (at least they are/were every time I've upgraded). That is the subsidized part that I'm talking about.
In closing, the subsidized cost of my phone was not paid back by me to AT&T as evidenced by the fact that my bill is the same whether I signed a 2 year agreement and bought a phone or not.
This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here. I haven't been hiding any beef with AT&T about unlimited data since they still grandfather both of my unlimited data lines. My beef is with them trying to hustle me into a worse plan at a higher cost. Why would I care if they offer unlimited data any more if I already have it? Unlimited data or any amount of data for that matter, Next still, in the most literal sense, costs me more money.
: money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function
: a grant or gift of money: as a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation b : money granted by one state to another c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public
Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone. What about before AT&T Next? I think what you're missing is the contract price doesn't magically drop after you "pay off" the phone if it is subsidized. Therefore if it doesn't drop then it was never really increased seeing as the plan prices are the same whether you buy a phone or not (at least they are/were every time I've upgraded). That is the subsidized part that I'm talking about.
In closing, the subsidized cost of my phone was not paid back by me to AT&T as evidenced by the fact that my bill is the same whether I signed a 2 year agreement and bought a phone or not.
This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here. I haven't been hiding any beef with AT&T about unlimited data since they still grandfather both of my unlimited data lines. My beef is with them trying to hustle me into a worse plan at a higher cost. Why would I care if they offer unlimited data any more if I already have it? Unlimited data or any amount of data for that matter, Next still, in the most literal sense, costs me more money.
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>Trying to persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle.
There are different terms and benefits. They're not exactly alike. What you're saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want and that's dishonest." Well, no, not really. Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.
You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point!
There are different terms and benefits. They're not exactly alike. What you're saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want and that's dishonest." Well, no, not really. Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.
You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point!
It seems what AT&T are trying to do is stop losing money to subsidizing phones since other carriers (T-mobile, for example) are doing this. If this is the case then why not just discontinue the subsidization of phones at the $199, $299, etc. price points and just allow you to buy it at 0% interest if you agree to a 2-year contract. They still get their customer locked in for 2 years and they recover the full cost of the phone and the customer most likely stays loyal since they aren't feeling ripped off. Otherwise, what is keeping them from jumping ship to another carrier if the waters are muddied enough that the phone and the plan become commodities?
You've pivoted to another topic. The question I asked is: what part of the AT&T Next plan qualifies as a hustle?
hustle - verb (used without object), hustled, hustling.
3. to be aggressive, especially in business or other financial dealings.
4. Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means.
The hustle part of what I said has to do with the pushyness of the salespeople at AT&T and the unethical part of lying about the pricing (to me when this deal was not better for me even though perhaps it may be better for someone else).
I think this meets the prima facie definition of hustle. Hustle doesn't have to mean fraudulent but it can mean shady, unscrupulous or sneaky.
3. to be aggressive, especially in business or other financial dealings.
4. Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means.
The hustle part of what I said has to do with the pushyness of the salespeople at AT&T and the unethical part of lying about the pricing (to me when this deal was not better for me even though perhaps it may be better for someone else).
I think this meets the prima facie definition of hustle. Hustle doesn't have to mean fraudulent but it can mean shady, unscrupulous or sneaky.
Another aspect of this is that they make the regular contract plans cost more than twice what they did before, even with a non-smartphone, essentially pushing you into the Next plan.
Can they really do this if you're just upgrading the phone and signing a new contract since you're not required to choose a new plan? If you were absolutely required to choose a new plan when you upgradethen how can people with unlimited data still be grandfathered in?
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This is new/used car dealer tactics.