> How should we address this problem without cutting off things like 8chan, though?
We need to address root causes rather than symptoms.
Radicalization is often the result of in-group/out-group thinking[0]. What causes a person to develop a strong affinity for a particular group? What causes them to feel attack by those outside of the group? When we can answer these questions and others like it, we can start to cut off the problem at the source rather than playing a game of whack-a-mole. (And I fear that game of whack-a-mole because I fear that it may cause great harm to our long-term freedoms.)
I think a good start is fixing our political discourse. It's not radical ideas that are the problem. It's how we interact. It's how we address one another. It's not limited to "the left" or "the right." It's everywhere. We attack groups and people rather than addressing ideas.
In fact, I am first on the list of people who need to change. I started this whole thread by taking an unfair swipe at CloudFlare.
When we change our political discourse, those who value their identity with a particular group will feel less attacked and be less prone to radicalization.
This can be applied to CloudFlare/8chan in how CloudFlare went about it. CloudFlare dumping 8chan so quickly, arbitrarily, and without appeal will likely be seen as an attack on the in-group. This could be mitigated by reaching out to the 8chan leadership first. While CloudFlare might have cut them off in the end, at least there'd be a track record of making an effort to bridge their differences. And I think that would help reduce the impact this action would have.
If I understand correctly, you're making the argument that CloudFlare's move should be seen as part of a (hopefully) larger cultural move against racism and mass shootings. I am not sure how or even if their move would fit into that, but I can at least see that as plausible.
> I don't get how it's desirable that this shouldn't be called out.
That's not being suggested. It's possible to address the issue without outright cutting off 8chan. This approach is common of more extreme perspectives and does more to breed animosity than solve the problem. There are better ways to approach it, and cutting someone or a group off should be on the end list of possibilities.
> Even if cloudflare is clearly looking at its bank balance when doing so.
It's entirely possible they have two goals in mind, and that would be fine. I simply think it's unlikely because of how they've reacted in this case and the one with Daily Stormer.
I also detect a subtle hint of consequentialism here, but that could be my own reading into your post. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I simply can't get on border with the idea that the ends justifies the means. While the ends shouldn't be ignore, I don't think it should be seen as the sole arbitrator what determines ethical behavior.
> Or if you think Cloudflare's decision was arbitrary and that worries you, you should leave.
I am not entirely sure whether this statement carries moral judgment of those who see it as arbitrary or not. Would you mind clarifying if you intend to pass judgment or not?
Edit: It seems I communicated my point poorly. My last sentence is not intended as a swipe at the parent poster. It's simply a request for clarification. I desired to understand parent's point rather than mischaracterize it.
We need to address root causes rather than symptoms.
Radicalization is often the result of in-group/out-group thinking[0]. What causes a person to develop a strong affinity for a particular group? What causes them to feel attack by those outside of the group? When we can answer these questions and others like it, we can start to cut off the problem at the source rather than playing a game of whack-a-mole. (And I fear that game of whack-a-mole because I fear that it may cause great harm to our long-term freedoms.)
I think a good start is fixing our political discourse. It's not radical ideas that are the problem. It's how we interact. It's how we address one another. It's not limited to "the left" or "the right." It's everywhere. We attack groups and people rather than addressing ideas.
In fact, I am first on the list of people who need to change. I started this whole thread by taking an unfair swipe at CloudFlare.
When we change our political discourse, those who value their identity with a particular group will feel less attacked and be less prone to radicalization.
This can be applied to CloudFlare/8chan in how CloudFlare went about it. CloudFlare dumping 8chan so quickly, arbitrarily, and without appeal will likely be seen as an attack on the in-group. This could be mitigated by reaching out to the 8chan leadership first. While CloudFlare might have cut them off in the end, at least there'd be a track record of making an effort to bridge their differences. And I think that would help reduce the impact this action would have.
0. "Mechanisms of Political Radicalization: Pathways Toward Terrorism." Source: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/095465508020733...