Sorry, keto fans, you're probably not in ketosis (2018)(popsci.com)
popsci.com
Sorry, keto fans, you're probably not in ketosis (2018)
https://www.popsci.com/not-in-ketosis
51 comments
It looks like a pretty typical keto/low carb hit job piece.
You get a couple quotes from nutritionists who are ignorant of the current science, add a couple turns-out facts, and you have a great click bait article.
You get a couple quotes from nutritionists who are ignorant of the current science, add a couple turns-out facts, and you have a great click bait article.
ding ding ding.
There's a lot of industries set up to loose money the more people wake up to learning about modern nutritional science. Regardless of motive people in general love to hear that their bad habits are totally ok so they can rationalize it for themselves and continue their behavior.
There's a lot of industries set up to loose money the more people wake up to learning about modern nutritional science. Regardless of motive people in general love to hear that their bad habits are totally ok so they can rationalize it for themselves and continue their behavior.
I recently started a keto-style (high fat low carb) diet after reading a book on fasting [0]. I also picked up a ketone/glucose meter out of curiosity. Much as the book describes, fast for about 24-36+ hours and there's a good chance you'll be in ketosis.
After about 36 hours I've consistently measured 1.3-6 mmol/L. Between 48-60 hours I've measured around 4.4-4.6. As I understand it, anything above 0.5 is essentially ketosis. I agree with you in that, at least to me, there is a feeling of when you are in ketosis.
Ketosis is the generation of ketone bodies in the absence of glucose, ketoacidosis it the generation of ketone bodies despite the fact that the bloodstream is flush with glucose. Ketoacidosis is clearly a real concern, however as I understand it it's primarily an issue for type-1 diabetics.
This article feels awfully superficial, but I find the final statement, "maybe not being in ketosis isn’t so bad after all—now just cut back on the saturated fats", to be very reasonable.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Fasting-Intermittent-A...
After about 36 hours I've consistently measured 1.3-6 mmol/L. Between 48-60 hours I've measured around 4.4-4.6. As I understand it, anything above 0.5 is essentially ketosis. I agree with you in that, at least to me, there is a feeling of when you are in ketosis.
Ketosis is the generation of ketone bodies in the absence of glucose, ketoacidosis it the generation of ketone bodies despite the fact that the bloodstream is flush with glucose. Ketoacidosis is clearly a real concern, however as I understand it it's primarily an issue for type-1 diabetics.
This article feels awfully superficial, but I find the final statement, "maybe not being in ketosis isn’t so bad after all—now just cut back on the saturated fats", to be very reasonable.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Guide-Fasting-Intermittent-A...
It really isn't as difficult to get into ketosis and safely maintain it for a reasonable duration as that article suggests.
Plenty of green leafy veg (The more the merrier for most), moderate to slightly higher protein, extra fibre from low carb sources, slightly increased water intake, high-fat, and low-carb (<20 g/day from veg if possible). Unsweetened, low-suger high-fat Yoghurt for breakfast with a few nuts or seeds (+ erythritol and stevia if you want a bit of sweetness). Salads with olive oil and a bit of cheese or meat for lunch. A variety of green-veg-heavy, keto-suitable recipes for a pleasant evening meal (Things like creamy or cheesy sauces are great plus curries can be readily adapted with cauliflower rice, cauliflower pizza is another favourite, and a lot of pasta sauces don't taste too bad with lettuce once you get past the initial disappointment).
It isn't that hard if you are determined and plan your meals/diet whilst considering the sources of your essential nutrients.
Personally I experienced some mild keto-cramps after about two weeks and upped my magnesium intake which cured those quite quickly. Then I started losing weight; I've literally just lost 2 stone (And counting) by following a keto diet.
It isn't as easy as some people make it sound but that doesn't make that article accurate. All of the advice I know about for how to have a healthy keto-diet addresses the exact things that they imply are common problems/dangers of keto.
My advice to anyone considering keto would be to read the studies for yourself (If I remember right several good-quality studies are freely available through google scholar) and follow some of the well-known keto-blogs' advice on having a balanced keto diet so that your general nutrition is kept well balanced.
Keto does work for weightloss but it does still take moderation, thought, and will-power. It isn't magic but it is far from impossible.
Plenty of green leafy veg (The more the merrier for most), moderate to slightly higher protein, extra fibre from low carb sources, slightly increased water intake, high-fat, and low-carb (<20 g/day from veg if possible). Unsweetened, low-suger high-fat Yoghurt for breakfast with a few nuts or seeds (+ erythritol and stevia if you want a bit of sweetness). Salads with olive oil and a bit of cheese or meat for lunch. A variety of green-veg-heavy, keto-suitable recipes for a pleasant evening meal (Things like creamy or cheesy sauces are great plus curries can be readily adapted with cauliflower rice, cauliflower pizza is another favourite, and a lot of pasta sauces don't taste too bad with lettuce once you get past the initial disappointment).
It isn't that hard if you are determined and plan your meals/diet whilst considering the sources of your essential nutrients.
Personally I experienced some mild keto-cramps after about two weeks and upped my magnesium intake which cured those quite quickly. Then I started losing weight; I've literally just lost 2 stone (And counting) by following a keto diet.
It isn't as easy as some people make it sound but that doesn't make that article accurate. All of the advice I know about for how to have a healthy keto-diet addresses the exact things that they imply are common problems/dangers of keto.
My advice to anyone considering keto would be to read the studies for yourself (If I remember right several good-quality studies are freely available through google scholar) and follow some of the well-known keto-blogs' advice on having a balanced keto diet so that your general nutrition is kept well balanced.
Keto does work for weightloss but it does still take moderation, thought, and will-power. It isn't magic but it is far from impossible.
I did keto and had a ketone strip tester based on blood drop tests. Not urine becuase it's not as accurate. It's definitely possible if you're disciplined and follow it properly.
Sure blood is much more accurate than urine, but it's my understanding that the urine strips will at least tell you reliably if you're in ketosis or not. The ketone concentrations just might not have a simple mapping onto your blood ketone concentrations.
Once you're further in and adapted to ketosis, you won't see urine confirmation as your body won't be producing enough excess ketones that it shows up in the urine.
The body is really good at becoming efficient at doing things.
The body is really good at becoming efficient at doing things.
Really? It was my understanding that the urine confirmation would be diminished, but almost always not completely washed out. That's good to be aware of if true though.
An article from popsci cannot be wrong, right?
The truth is somewhere in between as always. Some people find it really hard to follow a Keto diet. What has worked for me is to cut out sugars and refined carbs completely from my diet. This paired with Intermittent Fasting (IF) works wonders for burning fat. You can do 16:8, 20:4, OMAD and/or extended fasting.
When you're fasting your body will break down fat as it really has no choice.
The truth is somewhere in between as always. Some people find it really hard to follow a Keto diet. What has worked for me is to cut out sugars and refined carbs completely from my diet. This paired with Intermittent Fasting (IF) works wonders for burning fat. You can do 16:8, 20:4, OMAD and/or extended fasting.
When you're fasting your body will break down fat as it really has no choice.
I run anywhere from 30 to 70 miles per week and I just couldn't follow a keto diet. I have a hard time even just picturing it. Just the other day I was reading about a recent study showing that low-carb diets affect your running. That already made intuitive sense if you had been in a marathon and hit the proverbial wall at mile 20, roughly when you have depleted the glycogen stores in your legs and start burning fat. Of course the general population is different and doesn't obsess over their 10K times.
There are other factors that play a major role. I don't like meat much. I'm lactose intolerant. I've always had a sugar tooth. Thanks to lucky genes, a very active thyroid and the running, though, my body fat stays around 8-9%. Over the years, I learned to crave carbs less and to pay more attention to protein. I do some form of intermittent fasting, by accident, in the sense that I have early dinner, mostly for sleep hygiene, and rarely eat again until after my morning run, about 14 hours later.
There's no single approach that works for everyone, of course. Worse than that, though, is that even if you find the motivation to try a variety of them, you probably want to spend at the very least several weeks on each before you can start extrapolating useful observations.
There are other factors that play a major role. I don't like meat much. I'm lactose intolerant. I've always had a sugar tooth. Thanks to lucky genes, a very active thyroid and the running, though, my body fat stays around 8-9%. Over the years, I learned to crave carbs less and to pay more attention to protein. I do some form of intermittent fasting, by accident, in the sense that I have early dinner, mostly for sleep hygiene, and rarely eat again until after my morning run, about 14 hours later.
There's no single approach that works for everyone, of course. Worse than that, though, is that even if you find the motivation to try a variety of them, you probably want to spend at the very least several weeks on each before you can start extrapolating useful observations.
Why were you trying to use a keto diet with body fat at < 10%, which is bordering on "too low"?
I know I'm skinny, so I never tried to lose weight or looked at it as a keto diet per se. I don't think I even knew the term at the time. It was more about replacing carbs with proteins. During the winter, when I eat just the same, but only run half the distance, fat goes up to 10-11%.
I've tried all sort of diets, keto included, the best diet i found is to eat nutritious and balanced diet in moderate quantity (i.e change your relationship with food). Keto in my opinion is too extreme, and is mostly done by people with poor relationship towards food (myself included). This recent diet trend is mainly because modern society made eating a hobby and escape along with forcing most of humanity to live sedentary lives.
While I agree with you... Keto is best for people who are type 2 diabetic or borderline. And with that I would say Paleo + Keto macro profile. If you are closer to a healthy weight, then Paleo and good habits goes a long way. One Meal a Day also helps a lot simply because it's harder to overeat in a single meal.
IMHO grains/refined carbs (bread/starch/pasta) etc should be limited to a couple meals a week... and refined sugars should be limited to one or two treats a month.
IMHO grains/refined carbs (bread/starch/pasta) etc should be limited to a couple meals a week... and refined sugars should be limited to one or two treats a month.
Yup, most of my gains have been realized with eating less. I drink a soylent for breakfast, eat like a super small salad for lunch (300 cal), and basically eat whatever i want for dinner in moderation. On the weekends, i try to keep this diet but i might fail, no harm done though. Never felt better. These days if i were to go an extreme route i'm rooting more for OMAD or IM than keto but again, it is hard to keep up extreme diets for most people, keeping it simple is really the way to go.
>Keto is best for people who are type 2 diabetic or borderline
Citation, please. Because as far as I am aware, it's not recommended in any medical journal.
Citation, please. Because as far as I am aware, it's not recommended in any medical journal.
2019 Diabetes Association Guidelines were changed to add low-carb, which is the only diet of those recommended to have shown any benefit in a controlled study. Linking to one of the first search results below. I happen to follow low carb down under and a few other resources that tend to show more data, etc. US and EU healthcare guidelines are dragging, mostly out of funding sources (big agriculture companies)
https://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/12/18/low-carb-diet-in-2019-ame...
https://www.lchf-rd.com/2018/12/18/low-carb-diet-in-2019-ame...
Is food as a hobby and an escape anything new? There have been feasts since the beginning of time. You can find plenty of stories of people enjoying making and eating food before the modern time. I do agree it's much more widespread now. Also, food has become extremely affordable. Totally agree about our sedentary lives though.
100% agreed, the issue I have with Keto and other related fashionable diets is that for the majority of people who attempt they aren't necessary to what they are trying to achieve and like you say, born out of poor relationship to food and health.
As someone who has also tried a lot of different diets and training plans to me the most sane approach to weight loss is still moderation with calorie/macro tracking which is far simpler to implement, not restrictive and personally, more enjoyable.
As someone who has also tried a lot of different diets and training plans to me the most sane approach to weight loss is still moderation with calorie/macro tracking which is far simpler to implement, not restrictive and personally, more enjoyable.
Every individual on the planet has a different optimal diet. Any generic advice is useless.
>keto diet is used as a treatment of epilepsy in children or infant
God I love being a kid. Iget ez in ketosis
God I love being a kid. Iget ez in ketosis
This looks like a dark net publication.
>To continue enjoying the free content made available to you on this website, you must indicate that you understand and accept Bonnier Corp.’s use of cookies by selecting the "Allow all cookies" button below.
>To continue enjoying the free content made available to you on this website, you must indicate that you understand and accept Bonnier Corp.’s use of cookies by selecting the "Allow all cookies" button below.
So what's a good alternative for burning fat that you already have?
I am in a caloric deficit and do long exercises to burn fat but I'm not sure if it actually works - my weight is down a bit but it usually is in the spring anyway
Fasting is the best way to burn fat. Either intermittently or for extended periods of time. I've done 7 day water fasts with minimal muscle loss. Caloric deficits don't work longterm since you're decreasing your basal metabolic rate, so your body needs less calories to maintain your weight. Whereas when you fast, the opposite occurs. Your basal metabolic rate goes up. This makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, since if you're going long periods without food, you want to make sure you have sufficient energy to actually chase down some prey. This is why your noradrenaline and VO2 max increase during a fast.
16:8 intermittent fasting has worked quite well for me.
7 days man? I went 3 and it was hard.
That's the hardest part. Once you're passed day 3 it's easier. I only fast for 7 days once or maybe twice per year. It's also easier if you're eating keto the weeks prior to the fast.
The first 3 days are by far the hardest when fasting.
I've done a 7 and a 10 day, and this was my experience.
Around day 4, I lost the desire for food. It was no longer a struggle.
Around day 4, I lost the desire for food. It was no longer a struggle.
Build muscle and make sure you have enough protein intake to burn the fat while you do it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26817506/
You should also note that type of calories is more important than overall calorie count. Make sure that lean meats and vegetables are a large portion of your diet. Minimize processed food intake. Use carbs as side dishes, not main courses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26817506/
You should also note that type of calories is more important than overall calorie count. Make sure that lean meats and vegetables are a large portion of your diet. Minimize processed food intake. Use carbs as side dishes, not main courses.
I'm sure you're doing fine. If your weight's down, how aren't you burning fat? Concerns about burning too much muscle IMO are extremely overblown for most people. I would recommend the eye test (look in the mirror) or feel test (poke at your flabs). Progress pics might help. I think there's calipers and other measurement tools too.
Keep in mind your fat deposits will get smaller, but they don't go away. You'll likely still have some flab, even if you're pretty lean. The process is also very gradual. I'm 6'2" male and had a gut/tits @185lb, and even in high school @155lb. In either case, it was still quite noticeable, unfortunately.
If you haven't put on enough muscle already, that could seriously effect your results. There's still benefits to maintaining strength / muscle even during weight loss, but progress will be slow. Generally, you just want to get a balance of nutrients, and be at caloric deficit. You'll lose fat, that's it.
Keep in mind your fat deposits will get smaller, but they don't go away. You'll likely still have some flab, even if you're pretty lean. The process is also very gradual. I'm 6'2" male and had a gut/tits @185lb, and even in high school @155lb. In either case, it was still quite noticeable, unfortunately.
If you haven't put on enough muscle already, that could seriously effect your results. There's still benefits to maintaining strength / muscle even during weight loss, but progress will be slow. Generally, you just want to get a balance of nutrients, and be at caloric deficit. You'll lose fat, that's it.
> I am in a caloric deficit and do long exercises but I'm not sure if it actually works
Being in caloric deficit while exercising must work by definition. All advice that I've seen for exercising though is that, modulo specific advice from your doctor[0], you should do high intensity heavy lifting exercise (like squats) for shorter periods for maximum effect. It's both more gratifying (and therefore sustainable) and more efficient.
[0] - a person who suffers from lumbar disc degeneration, for instance, could carry only half or less of the weight but do their squats one leg at a time with a balance assist for the same overall muscle building with significantly less back strain.
Being in caloric deficit while exercising must work by definition. All advice that I've seen for exercising though is that, modulo specific advice from your doctor[0], you should do high intensity heavy lifting exercise (like squats) for shorter periods for maximum effect. It's both more gratifying (and therefore sustainable) and more efficient.
[0] - a person who suffers from lumbar disc degeneration, for instance, could carry only half or less of the weight but do their squats one leg at a time with a balance assist for the same overall muscle building with significantly less back strain.
The caloric deficit line of thought is true, but it doesn't really take into account that people are impulsive and don't really have free will. You need a way of eating that is maintainable and doesn't constantly require resisting impulses.
To paraphrase Peter Attia, to say that the reason people are overweight is they eat too much, is like saying Bill Gates is rich because he made more money than he spent. It's by definition true, but has no explanatory power.
To paraphrase Peter Attia, to say that the reason people are overweight is they eat too much, is like saying Bill Gates is rich because he made more money than he spent. It's by definition true, but has no explanatory power.
Most of impulse control is circadian... A mono diet or shifting to OMAD or doing a 3-7 day fast can all help reset how you feel in terms of hunger. It's a matter of understanding that you aren't going to starve to death, drink some water and wait a half hour. The feeling will usually just go away if you keep busy. After a few days, it will become more normal.
I find that One Meal a Day works incredibly well as for most people, it's VERY hard to over-eat (for a day) in a single meal in under an hour. The other issue, is I feel that people were sold on low fat, don't eat meat, etc, and I think that has been harmful overall.
Impulse control can be better over time, but the social triggers are the worst.
I find that One Meal a Day works incredibly well as for most people, it's VERY hard to over-eat (for a day) in a single meal in under an hour. The other issue, is I feel that people were sold on low fat, don't eat meat, etc, and I think that has been harmful overall.
Impulse control can be better over time, but the social triggers are the worst.
High intensity heavy lifting is great and I do it, but for calorie burn, how can it be better than endurance exercise? I burn 700 per hour when running, 6 hours per week = 4,200. The below article estimates 20 lbs. of added muscle burns 120 calories per day. That's 840 calories per week.
https://www.latimes.com/health/la-xpm-2011-may-16-la-he-fitn...
https://www.latimes.com/health/la-xpm-2011-may-16-la-he-fitn...
It's not, don't listen to the bros. You'll burn some calories recovering from lifting, but this is overblown. Want result quickly? Do lots of cardio / hiking; just don't neglect your strength training. On the flip side, if you lack time, you may be better of just working on strength, and being very disciplined about diet.
Once you build enough muscle mass through heavy lifting, it does really get a lot easier in terms of diet. Muscle just existing evidently consumes tons of calories. I eat as much as I want whenever I want and I can’t gain weight unless I really really try, and it’s very uncomfortable to do so. But it’s hard for me to say how long it takes to get to that state, since it kinda of crept up on me.
You won’t be shredded or ripped doing this, that does require a strict diet unless you’re lucky, but you can be pretty fit looking and feel great.
You won’t be shredded or ripped doing this, that does require a strict diet unless you’re lucky, but you can be pretty fit looking and feel great.
Right, once I did the right calculations I realized I was actually somewhat pudgy even at 6'2" 165, do to low muscle mass. The low end of healthy weight for my height would be 145, according to BMI. BMI has serious flaws, but it's a decent statistical measure. For someone like me, with low muscle mass, that would be a very skinny weight. So even at 165, I had like 15-20 lbs of fat. Now, I'd be pretty skinny at 180-190 lbs.
I also support high intensity exercise. I’ve really enjoyed taking up powerlifting and it gives me a way to focus on my strength instead of appearance. It’s still treated the latter well while keeping my focus on something that isn’t so cosmetic.
Use exercises that burn a lot of energy. High intensity is most effective. Energy will be taken from all deposits, trying to target only fat deposits is very inefficient when it comes weight loss. If you want to keep as much muscle mass as possible use muscle building exercises.
Exercise is generally not regarded as very effective for weight loss: https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11518804/weight-loss-exercise-...
Not saying it may not work for some people.
Not saying it may not work for some people.
The studies in the article basically say exercise is essential for sustained weight loss. And we should not forget about the health effects of exercise. The problem with diets is that the only thing you think and dream about is food, guess what you are going to do when the diet is over. So you would have to entirely change how you eat. eg. Never stop the "diet".
I was 240 went on antibiotics.. cipro was the last. Completely changed my gut bacteria. Lost 70 pounds in a month..over a hundred a year later. Wish I could weigh more.
Gut bacteria is the key.
Gut bacteria is the key.
[deleted]
Keto is great. I've been in ketosis for a year now and can even eat a moderate amount of fruit. The only complex carbs I eat is fibre. I also eat quite a bit of protein including shakes. I combine this with endurance exercise. I didn't need to lose any weight and still lost 10kg. I have to add ~1000 calories of virgin coconut/olive oil to my diet daily to maintain my weight. Pretty sure the article is factually incorrect.
> but without a nutritionist guiding you it’s still hard to get down into ketosis.
I guess this is geared towards people who read a blog and decide they want to try it without educating themselves?
I guess this is geared towards people who read a blog and decide they want to try it without educating themselves?
It happens a LOT ... many people "try" keto, but they wind up just eating low calorie, cutting the carbs, but not adding fattier foods in. You still want a calorie deficit and it isn't magic. Calories and Hormones (insulin, etc) are both huge, overriding factors.
I know that back when I did keto, I was checking my urine ketone levels twice daily for weeks before I was able to 'feel' if I was in ketosis. Maintaining ketosis was difficult and I had to closely monitor my food but I honestly found it to not be that bad a diet once I got used to it. Your milage may vary.
I guess I should just acknowledge that the article isn't actually addressing me personally, but I can't help but feel there are many people out there doing keto who are actually measuring their ketones and know whether or not they're in ketosis.
That's also the standard advice you'll get from almost anyone who gives advice on doing keto.