South Koreans fake their funerals for life lessons(reuters.com)
reuters.com
South Koreans fake their funerals for life lessons
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-livingfunerals/dying-for-a-better-life-south-koreans-fake-their-funerals-for-life-lessons-idUSKBN1XG038
63 comments
Let us prepare our minds as if we’d come to the very end of life. Let us postpone nothing. Let us balance life’s books each day.
The one who puts the finishing touches on their life each day is never short of time.
Seneca
The one who puts the finishing touches on their life each day is never short of time.
Seneca
If I took that literally, I would never start any projects that cannot be completed in a single day.
I would advise you to think hard about starting long projects for which the days of work that it requires do not individually seem worth the effort. Not only will you be miserable, but your chances of success will be low. However, I would also caution you not to assume that a long difficult task will not be satisfying day to day when approached with the right frame of mind.
You could not think of them as projects that must be finished, just work on whatever you feel like at the moment. Eventually they may grow to completion. If they don't, then you didn't like to work on them anyway.
(This is excellent advice from someone who has never managed to finish any personal project.)
(This is excellent advice from someone who has never managed to finish any personal project.)
This! The carpe diem mentality has always had this flaw IMHO. Humans are what they are because they invented ways to deal with the future: being a good sport, a sense of community, trading, etc.
Just living in the moment isn't enough.
Just living in the moment isn't enough.
"Carpe diem" is just misunderstood. It's more an advice against procrastination than a suggestion to ignore the future.
The projects can be completed, even if you cannot complete them. Release early, release often :)
The daily stoic emails are awesome. Ryan Holiday does an amazing job of making stoism practical to modern life. HIghly recommended.
https://dailystoic.com/email/
https://dailystoic.com/email/
I get frustrated with this attitude which assumes everyone is in a position to do these things.
I've lost many years of my life to physical disability, and pretty well all of my life due to mental problems which mess up my ability to deal with people[0], and without relationships you are nothing.
Reading this feels like someone telling others to "eat, drink and be merry", when those others are have no food or water - but the merry advice-giver has plenty, so what's the problem.
I'd never take away from someone else what I never had and likely never will, but frankly I wish more fortunate people would stop dishing out their insensitive, thoughtless advice.
[0] blah blah poor me with my sob story. Shit happens.
I've lost many years of my life to physical disability, and pretty well all of my life due to mental problems which mess up my ability to deal with people[0], and without relationships you are nothing.
Reading this feels like someone telling others to "eat, drink and be merry", when those others are have no food or water - but the merry advice-giver has plenty, so what's the problem.
I'd never take away from someone else what I never had and likely never will, but frankly I wish more fortunate people would stop dishing out their insensitive, thoughtless advice.
[0] blah blah poor me with my sob story. Shit happens.
I don't think he's advising people to have some fun while it lasts or something like that. I think this specific quote, out of context, may be read like that, but I think the point is actually to ignore trivialities, such as "eat, drink and be merry" and instead prepare for death by focusing on what is important, like having a clear conscience and living a virtuous life. I think it's virtue that he advises we should not postpone- don't leave being a virtuous person for later, because detah may come at any moment, is my reading.
> Reading this feels
I don't disbelieve you, but I suggest you try reading it again with an open mind. I think you are unconsciously imposing a stereotype onto those lines.
I don't disbelieve you, but I suggest you try reading it again with an open mind. I think you are unconsciously imposing a stereotype onto those lines.
without relationships you are nothing
A nugget of wisdom amongst all the shallow stoical comments in this thread.
A nugget of wisdom amongst all the shallow stoical comments in this thread.
The stoics aren't usually known for being party animals.
Is there something more effective that you can suggest from your experience?
Yes, I was going to reply to the GP with:
Then there are those who are eager for it to end, but have to wait for biology or fate to catch up.
There should be a clean Quit button.
Then there are those who are eager for it to end, but have to wait for biology or fate to catch up.
There should be a clean Quit button.
Meditations of Marcus Aurelius:
4.33 what would you gain from everlasting remembrance? Absolutely nothing. So what is left worth living for? This alone: justice in thought, goodness in action, speech that cannot deceive, and a disposition glad of whatever comes, welcoming it as necessary, as familiar, as flowing from the same source and fountain as yourself.
4.48 Mark how fleeting and paltry is the estate of man - yesterday in embryo, tomorrow a mummy or ashes. So for the hairsbreadth of time assigned to thee, live rationally, and part with life cheerfully, as drops the ripe olive, extolling the season that bore it and the tree that matured it.
4.33 what would you gain from everlasting remembrance? Absolutely nothing. So what is left worth living for? This alone: justice in thought, goodness in action, speech that cannot deceive, and a disposition glad of whatever comes, welcoming it as necessary, as familiar, as flowing from the same source and fountain as yourself.
4.48 Mark how fleeting and paltry is the estate of man - yesterday in embryo, tomorrow a mummy or ashes. So for the hairsbreadth of time assigned to thee, live rationally, and part with life cheerfully, as drops the ripe olive, extolling the season that bore it and the tree that matured it.
Why, do you not know, then, that the origin of all human evils, and of baseness, and cowardice, is not death, but rather the fear of death?
- Epictetus
- Epictetus
I recently heard of Terror Managment Theory [1]. Sounds a lot like it.
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terror_management_theory
What's wrong with good old-fashioned greed and selfishness?
Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_imperative
it diminishes the empathy and care you're willing to provide for others and maybe even worse it puts you into a never-ending rat race that you ultimately can't win, which is the point of most of these quotes. Greed just tends to cause more greed, with no tranquillity in sight.
It's not even a super deep insight or anything but it's still surprising how little attention it gets.
It's not even a super deep insight or anything but it's still surprising how little attention it gets.
I think this is all a way of saying "don't wait for Judgment Day to get your shit together."
Having the most fun before death, everyone and everything else be damned?
Time to re-read Meditations. I don’t remember any of what I read 5 years ago. On one hand it makes me sad that I’ve forgotten so much wisdom but I’m happy I get to rediscover it now.
I discovered once that humans don't usually remember that which they do not understand. As your understanding grows, so will your memory of it. It may be necessary to re-experience a thing many times before you understand it well enough to remember it.
> but I’m happy I get to rediscover it now..
This is much more in line with the passage quoted above. Enjoy what you have while you have it. "This alone".
This is much more in line with the passage quoted above. Enjoy what you have while you have it. "This alone".
Seneca also said that "Just as I shall select my ship when I am about to go on a voyage, or my house when I propose to take a residence, so I shall choose my death when I am about to depart from life."
Thanks for sharing. That one hit me hard.
I can recommend this application, if you would like to read more of the stoics and happen to have an Android phone:
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.reading.stoic.stoicreadi...
I think Epictetos' Enchiridion is a good start.
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.reading.stoic.stoicreadi...
I think Epictetos' Enchiridion is a good start.
This is fascinating. It reminds me of a line from Hamilton: "I imagine death so much it feels more like a memory". Lin-Manual Miranda has said that was the most auto biographical thing he's ever written and that he thinks his drive and positivity both come from that attitude.
I wonder if there's an easy way to replicate the exercise yourself. Perhaps every month write a letter to be read out at your funeral? One idea I had years ago but never did was to make a short video for my funeral every year where I shared my thoughts, fears and hopes and where I was in life. The idea was I could look back in future and see how far I'd come, but that it would also be useful exercise at the time.
I wonder if there's an easy way to replicate the exercise yourself. Perhaps every month write a letter to be read out at your funeral? One idea I had years ago but never did was to make a short video for my funeral every year where I shared my thoughts, fears and hopes and where I was in life. The idea was I could look back in future and see how far I'd come, but that it would also be useful exercise at the time.
I'm also a big fan of reading out my favourite quotes. If you're not sure what to say for your funeral then try to imagine yourself saying them, what do they say and where would you want them read out? A bit like a funeral speech, but a little more personal.
As part of many meditation process and spiritual practices in Hinduism and Budhism, visualization of your own death is very common. And it is usually called Death Mediation which is designed to teach you the impermanence of the our own existence and true nature of the World.
"The thought of suicide is a great consolation: by means of it one gets through many a dark night."
Nietzsche
Nietzsche
> I would feel real trapped in this life if I didn't know I could commit suicide at any time.
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
--Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
“ Wie Tausende von seinesgleichen, machte er es aus der Vorstellung, dass ihm zu jeder Stunde der Weg in den Tod offen stehe, nicht bloß ein jugendlich-melancholisches Phantasiespiel, sondern baute sich aus ebendiesem Gedanken einen Trost und eine Stütze.”
Excerpt from “Traktat vom Steppenwolf”[0] by Herman Hesse.
Paraphrasing: Like thousands of his kind, he [der Selbstmörder “he who commuts suicide”] doesn’t just use the idea that the door to his death is open at any time as a youthful and melancholic phantasy, but as consolation and a crutch.
(I really can’t translate)
[0] https://sanelatadic.com/media/DIR_15301/96989bdc407a2ecbffff...
Excerpt from “Traktat vom Steppenwolf”[0] by Herman Hesse.
Paraphrasing: Like thousands of his kind, he [der Selbstmörder “he who commuts suicide”] doesn’t just use the idea that the door to his death is open at any time as a youthful and melancholic phantasy, but as consolation and a crutch.
(I really can’t translate)
[0] https://sanelatadic.com/media/DIR_15301/96989bdc407a2ecbffff...
I have participated in a similar ritual, not as the buried, but as one of those doing the burying. The impact on everyone present was profound.
Thanks for the reminder -- it is a timely moment to revisit those lessons.
Thanks for the reminder -- it is a timely moment to revisit those lessons.
This has been an enjoyable, cathartic thread to read. I really vibe with the "memento mori" concept.
One thing I'll add that I ran across is a short discussion between David Lynch and Harry Dean Stanton discussing life, and "how they want to be remembered"
https://twitter.com/nickusen/status/1190238682713862144
One thing I'll add that I ran across is a short discussion between David Lynch and Harry Dean Stanton discussing life, and "how they want to be remembered"
https://twitter.com/nickusen/status/1190238682713862144
There's also symbolic death in Christian baptism.
Part of the human condition is underlying curiosity about death.
Part of the human condition is underlying curiosity about death.
Jim Jefferies did a nice on-the-premises comedy bit on this, it lets you see everything involved with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7kJmX9o8-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7kJmX9o8-E
Does anyone remember the article about a Buddhist monk who emulates suicide to heal the patients. It was on HN a while back but I can't find it.
Alan Watts talked about how one should consider their own death every so often in his lectures. I think he would approve.
This is a step above but I use an app that reminds me daily I will die.
Seems like something a twitter account could solve.
Great advertisement. If they like the company's service alive, they are more likely to use them when they are dead.
I saw a documentary on this.
The long short is "faking their deaths" doesn't mean what we normally think it means. Its more of a therapy tactic for depressed/suicidal people where they get to go through with it. They write goodbye notes, have a funeral, even get put in a coffin for a few hours.
I don't know if it works but it seems promising.
The long short is "faking their deaths" doesn't mean what we normally think it means. Its more of a therapy tactic for depressed/suicidal people where they get to go through with it. They write goodbye notes, have a funeral, even get put in a coffin for a few hours.
I don't know if it works but it seems promising.
"Faking" is the wrong word then -- more like "emulating".
The article itself makes it clear and calls it "simulating death"
I grew up in a rather small community on the northwestern coast of Norway, home to a lot of small-time fishermen working up in the Arctic.
Just about everyone my age and older still remember when a vessel was lost back in the eighties, initial reports were all hands lost - until suddenly, a week and a half later, the fisherman we'd all mourned for the past days came home, puzzled as to the sensation his appearance made - he and a couple others had been picked up off a liferaft, and Canadian authorities had misspelled his name when notifying their Norwegian counterparts there were survivors after all - so his family had not been notified.
Allegedly, his father's first words upon seeing him was 'F[---] me, did I just die, or is it you who've not died after all?'
Magne is one of the few people I know who've had the pleasure of reading his own obituary.
Just about everyone my age and older still remember when a vessel was lost back in the eighties, initial reports were all hands lost - until suddenly, a week and a half later, the fisherman we'd all mourned for the past days came home, puzzled as to the sensation his appearance made - he and a couple others had been picked up off a liferaft, and Canadian authorities had misspelled his name when notifying their Norwegian counterparts there were survivors after all - so his family had not been notified.
Allegedly, his father's first words upon seeing him was 'F[---] me, did I just die, or is it you who've not died after all?'
Magne is one of the few people I know who've had the pleasure of reading his own obituary.
Was this the documentary you saw?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEaJUEOhjs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEaJUEOhjs
I also saw a documentary about this, but it was called "A pharaoh to remember". Unfortunately in this one, the fake funeral just made the guy feel worse.
This is actually funny to me because as a child I fondly remember playing “Funeral” as one of our games.
The game consisted of players taking turns lying very still and dead in some kind of coffin or just on the floor. Then everyone else takes turns going up to your dead body and saying last words about what a good friend you were or maybe you were an ass and the world is better off without you or absolutely whatever you wanted to say, sometimes funny and sometimes true. Then maybe you throw some “flower” or something and the next kid takes a turn.
When everybody has spoke their thoughts you’re covered with blankets or pillows or whatever we had and you experience just being dead and buried, until you get bored then you get up and it’s someone else’s turn to die.
I don’t know why we played such a morbid game as kids but there you go. Maybe it’s why I’m so cynical and nihilist as a grown up.
The game consisted of players taking turns lying very still and dead in some kind of coffin or just on the floor. Then everyone else takes turns going up to your dead body and saying last words about what a good friend you were or maybe you were an ass and the world is better off without you or absolutely whatever you wanted to say, sometimes funny and sometimes true. Then maybe you throw some “flower” or something and the next kid takes a turn.
When everybody has spoke their thoughts you’re covered with blankets or pillows or whatever we had and you experience just being dead and buried, until you get bored then you get up and it’s someone else’s turn to die.
I don’t know why we played such a morbid game as kids but there you go. Maybe it’s why I’m so cynical and nihilist as a grown up.
That reminds me of this scene from Better Things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf_hk8ln2pA
did you die?
(SPOILER on bottom of post.)
> Ben X is a 2007 Belgian-Dutch drama film based on the novel Nothing Was All He Said (Dutch: Niets Was Alles Wat Hij Zei) by Nic Balthazar, who also directed the film.[4] The film is about a boy with Asperger syndrome (played by Greg Timmermans) who retreats into the fantasy world of the MMORPG ArchLord to escape bullying. The film's title is a reference to the leet version of the Dutch phrase "(ik) ben niks", meaning "(I) am nothing".
> The novel was inspired by the true story of a boy with autism who committed suicide because of bullying
There is also a Swedish remake (2013):
> Erik Leijonborg adapted the film into a Swedish-language remake, IRL.
[SPOILER]The reason it reminds me of that movie, is because Ben's death is faked to teach his bullies a (life) lesson.[/SPOILER]
Back when I watched it (it hit a spot), I did not play either MMORPGs nor did I know I had autism. Now I know I have autism, and I played MMORPGs.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_X