Fujitsu announces permanent work-from-home plan(bbc.com)
bbc.com
Fujitsu announces permanent work-from-home plan
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53303364
286 comments
>There is a culture of overwork that begets a culture of inefficiency that boggles the mind. Few people know that Japan has a labor productivity lower than Italy, for example.
If you spent so much time at the workplace like the Japanese you end up with a low producivity on paper pretty much by definition, because it's simply output divided by amount of time worked.
But I wouldn't overestimate the importance of computerization on productivity which is actually extremely low. Here in Germany we have a similar paper culture (although not quite as extreme) but very high labour productivity. The Japanese could simply go home or work a day less and their productivity would go up, it's not really comparable to much of Italy. (except the north of italy which is actually also extremely productive).
In fact Microsoft in Japan actually did just that and introduced a 4 day week a while ago, and productivity went up 40% (https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say...)
If you spent so much time at the workplace like the Japanese you end up with a low producivity on paper pretty much by definition, because it's simply output divided by amount of time worked.
But I wouldn't overestimate the importance of computerization on productivity which is actually extremely low. Here in Germany we have a similar paper culture (although not quite as extreme) but very high labour productivity. The Japanese could simply go home or work a day less and their productivity would go up, it's not really comparable to much of Italy. (except the north of italy which is actually also extremely productive).
In fact Microsoft in Japan actually did just that and introduced a 4 day week a while ago, and productivity went up 40% (https://www.npr.org/2019/11/04/776163853/microsoft-japan-say...)
>If you spent so much time at the workplace like the Japanese you end up with a low producivity on paper pretty much by definition, because it's simply output divided by amount of time worked.
It is not as simple as that: in general, more developed countries tend to have higher labor productivity. Japan has been historically low for several decades.
I'm no specialist of labor statistics, but note that Japan actaually worked fewers hours than Italy , accoding to OECD anyaway: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS. I am pretty sure that most people unfamiliar w/ Japan would not place its productivity as low as it is, close to countries like Turkey or Slovakia.
>Here in Germany we have a similar paper culture (although not quite as extreme) but very high labour productivity
I am familiar with both countries, worked in both, and it is nowhere near comparable. But paper is only part of it. The overtime culture is quite intense. I still vividly remember my first work experience in Japan > 15 years ago, with 3-4 hours-long meetings where half the members, including the lab's head, were sleeping.
It is not as simple as that: in general, more developed countries tend to have higher labor productivity. Japan has been historically low for several decades.
I'm no specialist of labor statistics, but note that Japan actaually worked fewers hours than Italy , accoding to OECD anyaway: https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=ANHRS. I am pretty sure that most people unfamiliar w/ Japan would not place its productivity as low as it is, close to countries like Turkey or Slovakia.
>Here in Germany we have a similar paper culture (although not quite as extreme) but very high labour productivity
I am familiar with both countries, worked in both, and it is nowhere near comparable. But paper is only part of it. The overtime culture is quite intense. I still vividly remember my first work experience in Japan > 15 years ago, with 3-4 hours-long meetings where half the members, including the lab's head, were sleeping.
The BBC also has an article on this topic of sleeping in the office.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190809-why-overtired-...
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20190809-why-overtired-...
For work hours, maybe because many Japanese women works as "part time job" due to discrimination and some tax/insurance system. Statistics by gender maybe reflects it.
Over 40 years as a professional I have worked in tech companies in countries around the world, including Germany and Japan, and now in Austria - where the reduced work week is not only a cultural norm, but rather supported by the bureaucratic classes as their right and obligation. Kafka and Vienna, mmkay...
My anecdotal experience is that I think the most fun, and therefore most productive place to work in the Western world so far, for me anyway - was the good ol' USA.
Sure, the 80 hour work weeks were killer. But, the camaraderie, coordination, and just fun getting-shit-done'ness of the average American company exceeds most others.
But only if there was no daily commute, because a daily commute in America is a sheer kind of hell that nobody should tolerate - in which case, Japan or Austria are definitely the lifestyle/work balance leaders, even though they are far lazier cultures - Germany too, to some extent, but I could generalise about Germany until my holzhacker is burned to a crisp, and it'd still taste great.
Anyway, the reduced work week culture can be observed around the world. I think, the efficacy of the culture matters too, though. Germans admire rigor, Austrians reward laziness - Japanese, duplicity - and America, getting things done no matter what.
My anecdotal experience is that I think the most fun, and therefore most productive place to work in the Western world so far, for me anyway - was the good ol' USA.
Sure, the 80 hour work weeks were killer. But, the camaraderie, coordination, and just fun getting-shit-done'ness of the average American company exceeds most others.
But only if there was no daily commute, because a daily commute in America is a sheer kind of hell that nobody should tolerate - in which case, Japan or Austria are definitely the lifestyle/work balance leaders, even though they are far lazier cultures - Germany too, to some extent, but I could generalise about Germany until my holzhacker is burned to a crisp, and it'd still taste great.
Anyway, the reduced work week culture can be observed around the world. I think, the efficacy of the culture matters too, though. Germans admire rigor, Austrians reward laziness - Japanese, duplicity - and America, getting things done no matter what.
One major issue with paper vs digital is that paper scales really, really badly. IIRC (I can't find the article) there was a marked difference between how easy it was to access COVID benefits in Korea (where the process was entirely digital) vs Japan (where you had to show up to an office and fill out paperwork)
You didn't have to go to an office to get your COVID benefits. They mailed a brief, mostly prefilled form to your home and you put in your bank details and a copy of your ID to mail back.
You may be thinking of people rushing to get their applications in for their NFC-capable "My Number" cards, which haven't been very popular... that was entirely optional and gave you access to a digital version of the same thing.
You may be thinking of people rushing to get their applications in for their NFC-capable "My Number" cards, which haven't been very popular... that was entirely optional and gave you access to a digital version of the same thing.
They also care very much about their job title, and the job titles of the people they are dealing with. A few years ago my company (American) worked with a Japanese company and before we went into the meetings we had to establish new job titles for the people on our team that would be representing our company in the meeting. We couldn't go in there with just a bunch of senior engineers when they were sending their VP of Engineering. It wouldn't have gone over well.. We had to have a Director of Engineering, Senior Director of Mobile, VP of North American Engineering. Etc.
These were all just regular very good senior engineers. But it would have been insulting to go to the meeting without the inflated titles.
These were all just regular very good senior engineers. But it would have been insulting to go to the meeting without the inflated titles.
It would be funny if that wouldn't be so widely spread in other countries too. I have a fancy title that sounds nice on various levels. People's attitude changes completely: they listen to me,some even try not to say something wrong and etc. Oh, and I'm popular amongst sales people,who want to sell me all sorts of solutions because they assume I sit on a big budget. It's a circus.
This bleeds into their North American operations too. Nowhere else in my career have I seen a more wretched hive of incestual politicking, inefficiency, lack of respect for lower workers, and obsession with beaucracy at Panasonic’s American operations
Reminds me of when my past employer sent me to Japan to debug a firmware issue for a potential customer. Every day for a week I had to spend two hours talking to their engineers talking about my debug decision tree for debug work for the rest of the day. And that was with an English/Japanese translator to help communicate. Most people adapt their debug strategy as they collect more data but they wanted it all planned out ahead. A very different way of doing it.
The bug was very specific to their use case and they wouldn't help us replicate it in our labs so I never figured it out until a year later helping another customer. It was a bug in counter wraparound handling.
The bug was very specific to their use case and they wouldn't help us replicate it in our labs so I never figured it out until a year later helping another customer. It was a bug in counter wraparound handling.
I have been working as an IT guy in Japan for almost two years now, and that's pretty much my experience. Everything has to be explained in ridiculous amount of detail and hanko-stamped by 20 bosses before you can start doing anything.
Which is quite ridiculous when your work strategy needs to change as you collect more data, as you said.
I'm learning to just do my job without telling them anything, and later writing all the required documents.
Which is quite ridiculous when your work strategy needs to change as you collect more data, as you said.
I'm learning to just do my job without telling them anything, and later writing all the required documents.
So the question is how do these companies still manage to sustain competitive pressures ? I guess the answer is that once you have a moat, internal efficiency is not that big of a factor.
I work for a public research institution, so I can't tell you about private companies. My guess is that, because everybody does the same, the don't feel any pressure to improve.
When I visited Japan I couldn't help repeating over and over to myself that it's a country with one foot firmly in the future and another foot stuck firmly in the past.
It's one of the most fascinating things I love about Japan.
[edit: typo]
It's one of the most fascinating things I love about Japan.
[edit: typo]
What struck me was the seemingly 1995 era laptops people were working on in the trains.
This is what benmw333 is referring to. The Panasonic Let's. Despite how bulky it looks, it weighs about the same as the macbook air. It's basically used by anyone who isn't a manager, designer or software developer. You see them everywhere.
https://biz.panasonic.com/jp-ja/products-services/letsnote/l...
https://biz.panasonic.com/jp-ja/products-services/letsnote/l...
Wow - look at this picture:
https://content.biz.panasonic.com/jp-ja/fai/15800/raw
This is not from a wayback machine copy of dynamism.com - this is a new, Windows 10 laptop in 2020 (!)
https://content.biz.panasonic.com/jp-ja/fai/15800/raw
This is not from a wayback machine copy of dynamism.com - this is a new, Windows 10 laptop in 2020 (!)
HDMI, VGA, 3 USBs, ethernet, and apparently 20 hours battery life! What's not to like?
Well, the best it gets is an i7 (and most of the models are i5, or even i3), so that could be a real pain if the procuring manager is a cheapskate.
Also, the screens are 1920x1200 across the board for the Let's, which is the same pixel density as a 1080p 16:9 monitor.
Also, the screens are 1920x1200 across the board for the Let's, which is the same pixel density as a 1080p 16:9 monitor.
> Also, the screens are 1920x1200 across the board for the Let's, which is the same pixel density as a 1080p 16:9 monitor.
Without saying sizes you can't saying anything about pixel density.
Without saying sizes you can't saying anything about pixel density.
And it has an optical drive?!?
Panasonic tends to refresh internals while keeping externals the same, although performance still sucks.
This variant was once offered in the US market something like a decade ago for "business-rugged" use under the Toughbook brand, but that magnesium exterior shell commanded a high price point; I suspect the ThinkPad T series would have been a direct competitor at the time with better performance options and being much cheaper.
This variant was once offered in the US market something like a decade ago for "business-rugged" use under the Toughbook brand, but that magnesium exterior shell commanded a high price point; I suspect the ThinkPad T series would have been a direct competitor at the time with better performance options and being much cheaper.
Those things have looked the same for at least 15 years.
I remember checking out new laptops from Japan and being amazed at how small they are... With zero change, they now look antiquated :D
I remember checking out new laptops from Japan and being amazed at how small they are... With zero change, they now look antiquated :D
What is wrong/weird with it?
It looks like it would've entered the market in 2006?
Wow. 19.5h of battery life!
Wow! 12", 19.5h battery, under 1kg and still got VGA and an optical drive?
Were can i buy one??
Thicker than VGA and Ethernet jack... without oversized touchpad... if it has upgradable RAM, disks and battery...
where is the Amazon link?
Yep, I owned one that I purchased in 2008. Mine was the size of a typical netbook (of course they had models with normal sizes), yet it was a fully featured laptop.
The case was from magnesium alloy and it weighted exactly 2 lbs (less than a book of the same size I couldn't tell I had it in my backpack).
Perhaps today it might not seem like a feat but that was 12 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB0_g9U9Dc8
The case was from magnesium alloy and it weighted exactly 2 lbs (less than a book of the same size I couldn't tell I had it in my backpack).
Perhaps today it might not seem like a feat but that was 12 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB0_g9U9Dc8
Is that....
No it can't be...
Is that a CD ROM Tray?
On a new production 2020 laptop?
I used to work on software with a lot of international customers. On every release we had to go through rigorous testing to ensure our product could be installed off of CD-ROMs solely for use by the Japanese market.
This was 10 years ago, but even then CD-ROMs seemed antiquated. It doesn't surprise me that Japan would be one place they're still common.
This was 10 years ago, but even then CD-ROMs seemed antiquated. It doesn't surprise me that Japan would be one place they're still common.
Well, Japanese love CDs. If I'm not mistaken, Japan is the place where collecting music CDs and such still is very much a thing. I think it's pretty nice, really.
They call it "vinyl" and they sport very fashionable beards.
IMO Most Japanese tech geeks laughs why MacBook Air is advertised as "light" laptop. There are more lighter and more functional laptops available in Japan.
Why are they emphasizing the optical disc drive so much?
People in Japan still buy and use a lot of physical media. Piracy of every kind is more harshly punished and strangely, compared to the US, people feel that they should buy the work of artists they enjoy to support them. There’s also thriving secondary markets for everything from CDs to movies to games if you can’t afford to purchase new.
Some enterprise still likes CD than USB drive because they believe it's less risk for contaminating malware.
I think this design is actually pretty cool. Wonder if it has Linux support.
I owned CF-R7 decade ago, and running Linux was very enjoyable. No drivers were needed and almost everything worked.
The only thing that Linux lacked at the time was ability to turn on-off economy mode (at the time never seen that in laptops, it was to keep charge at 80% to extend battery life). I needed to boot to windows to switch that. And functional/multimedia keys although I was able to find software to get that to work.
I would imagine the support would be better now.
The only thing that Linux lacked at the time was ability to turn on-off economy mode (at the time never seen that in laptops, it was to keep charge at 80% to extend battery life). I needed to boot to windows to switch that. And functional/multimedia keys although I was able to find software to get that to work.
I would imagine the support would be better now.
I like 1995 era laptops more than modern ones. I also like the the plastic casings of desktops back then—they feel solid, same with the mechanical keyboards!
Today companies so busy trying to “slim things down.”
P.S. why doesn’t apple release a matte display laptop? I would buy it.
Today companies so busy trying to “slim things down.”
P.S. why doesn’t apple release a matte display laptop? I would buy it.
Apple used to release matte display laptops. You used to be able to get a hulking 17 inch macbook pro with an optional matte display. Today, you can buy a $15 matte film.
because the reason matte is matte, is that it scatters light hitting the screen. from either side of the screen. you didn't notice how blurry your screen was when it was already blurry from the low resolution. now screens have high resolution.
feel free to put a matte transparency on your high density screen to make it a low density screen. everyone else would rather have glare.
feel free to put a matte transparency on your high density screen to make it a low density screen. everyone else would rather have glare.
I had one of the last models of matte display apple released. I eventually gave it up for the retina resolution.
How does this square with for example the Japanese car market, which I thought led the world in labour practices and efficiency? They've invented many labour practices that are considered the best we have today. And their cars are so cheap - how are they doing this if they aren't being efficient?
For example are Toyota's engineering and factories running on wasted meeting time, fax machines, and hand-written letters? Doesn't seem likely. If they are it seems to produce great results!
For example are Toyota's engineering and factories running on wasted meeting time, fax machines, and hand-written letters? Doesn't seem likely. If they are it seems to produce great results!
An assembly-line is a machine designed to avoid the need for synchronous human decision-making. Instead, there are only synchronous machine decisions, and asynchronous human decisions based on e.g. sampling, or spotting.
There are synchronous human tasks in some assembly-lines, but as long as they're rote tasks, inefficiency usually isn't introduced. Humans working as if they were machines, are rarely inefficient; and if they are, this inefficiency is "legible" for blue-collar work in a way that it isn't for white-collar work, so an inefficient human "part" can be, er, swapped out.
The whole "thing" that Toyota did to revolutionize car manufacturing, was essentially to make quality-assurance part of the same ground-level machine (i.e. make it a computed outcome of a series of "dumb" machine and worker steps), rather than making it a separate auditing process. As such, they essentially squeezed the ability to be inefficiency/incompetent out of the QA process.
There are synchronous human tasks in some assembly-lines, but as long as they're rote tasks, inefficiency usually isn't introduced. Humans working as if they were machines, are rarely inefficient; and if they are, this inefficiency is "legible" for blue-collar work in a way that it isn't for white-collar work, so an inefficient human "part" can be, er, swapped out.
The whole "thing" that Toyota did to revolutionize car manufacturing, was essentially to make quality-assurance part of the same ground-level machine (i.e. make it a computed outcome of a series of "dumb" machine and worker steps), rather than making it a separate auditing process. As such, they essentially squeezed the ability to be inefficiency/incompetent out of the QA process.
> The whole "thing" that Toyota did to revolutionize car manufacturing, was essentially to make quality-assurance part of the same ground-level machine
Where can I read more about it? I find it hard to imagine, how QA could possibly be a function of manufacturing process, since pretty much the sole purpose of it is to spot when "dumb" manufacturing process failed you a couple of steps ago. I mean, a lot of QA is pretty dumb too (like testing a party of 1000 details by breaking 10 of them), but there is nothing new about that specifically.
Where can I read more about it? I find it hard to imagine, how QA could possibly be a function of manufacturing process, since pretty much the sole purpose of it is to spot when "dumb" manufacturing process failed you a couple of steps ago. I mean, a lot of QA is pretty dumb too (like testing a party of 1000 details by breaking 10 of them), but there is nothing new about that specifically.
> since pretty much the sole purpose of it is to spot when "dumb" manufacturing process failed you a couple of steps ago
This is really not correct, a quality based approach to design and engineering will likely change your entire process (for good or for ill ... probably both).
This is really not correct, a quality based approach to design and engineering will likely change your entire process (for good or for ill ... probably both).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System
This is a good jumping off point
This is a good jumping off point
> For example are Toyota's engineering and factories running on wasted meeting time, fax machines, and hand-written letters? Doesn't seem likely. If they are it seems to produce great results!
I used to work at Toyota, although it might have changed since I was there (I doubt it changed significantly, though).
The factories and supply chain seemed well optimized. This is a huge cost in producing cars, so it makes sense to focus on this even over engineering productivity, to some extent.
But engineering certainly did involve lots of meetings, paper documents with hanko seals, and antiquated IT systems.
I used to work at Toyota, although it might have changed since I was there (I doubt it changed significantly, though).
The factories and supply chain seemed well optimized. This is a huge cost in producing cars, so it makes sense to focus on this even over engineering productivity, to some extent.
But engineering certainly did involve lots of meetings, paper documents with hanko seals, and antiquated IT systems.
So manufacturing is generally quite efficient. Toyota would be one of the powerhouse I had in mind, as would be most car companies. Note that Toyota is very much a global company and under the pressure of competition worldwide. But many large Japanese companies aren't.
>For example is Toyota also thriving on wasted meeting time, fax machines, and hand-written letters? Doesn't seem likely.
I don't want to go too much in specifics, but the examples I gave are actually coming from a company whose sole client is a large car company.
>For example is Toyota also thriving on wasted meeting time, fax machines, and hand-written letters? Doesn't seem likely.
I don't want to go too much in specifics, but the examples I gave are actually coming from a company whose sole client is a large car company.
The inefficiency is generally limited to white collar workers. Japanese blue collar workers are very efficient. Also, internationally competitive companies like Toyota often (but not always) have better business practices.
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Successful Japanese exporters are world-class, almost tautologically.
They’re also the exception. The domestic economy is generally heavily protected, regulated, and inefficient.
One view of the situation is that the exporters prop up the rest of the economy with their foreign revenues.
They’re also the exception. The domestic economy is generally heavily protected, regulated, and inefficient.
One view of the situation is that the exporters prop up the rest of the economy with their foreign revenues.
I believe that's an issue of manufacturing efficiency vs. corporate efficiency. Toyota invented "lean manufacturing", but that doesn't mean that their biz dev, marketing department, etc isn't massively inefficient. I'm not saying they are, just that the two are orthogonal.
how are they doing this if they aren't being efficient?
As somebody driving a Toyota they simply don't add too many gimmicks and options are usually limited to just trim levels and maybe a few bundles you can buy separately. Overall it's a far cry from e.g. German manufacturers where the configuration form can have tens of items from which you can pick and choose.
Also apparently creative work such as software engineering lends itself to inefficiencies, because the outcome isn't easily measurable. You have to have a culture that accepts irreducible uncertainty to navigate in such an environment.
As somebody driving a Toyota they simply don't add too many gimmicks and options are usually limited to just trim levels and maybe a few bundles you can buy separately. Overall it's a far cry from e.g. German manufacturers where the configuration form can have tens of items from which you can pick and choose.
Also apparently creative work such as software engineering lends itself to inefficiencies, because the outcome isn't easily measurable. You have to have a culture that accepts irreducible uncertainty to navigate in such an environment.
Japanese companies have a baffling knack for internal innovation that kind of transcends the overwhelming management style.
All the overtime and useless meetings produce a lot of decisions by consensus that balance out the random “maverick” ideas a VP might come up with. This creates a bizarre balancing act that sometimes produces decently market-synced products.
Also the just crazy amount of seasonality in Japan makes even the slowest moving company make large pivots at least four times a year. New season? New product, even if it’s weird and nobody wanted it, they figure out how to sell it and get 1500 workers to all shift left at the same time.
All the overtime and useless meetings produce a lot of decisions by consensus that balance out the random “maverick” ideas a VP might come up with. This creates a bizarre balancing act that sometimes produces decently market-synced products.
Also the just crazy amount of seasonality in Japan makes even the slowest moving company make large pivots at least four times a year. New season? New product, even if it’s weird and nobody wanted it, they figure out how to sell it and get 1500 workers to all shift left at the same time.
Many products in the Japanese market are well designed, durable, functional and cost-efficient, this is not something specific to cars.
When it comes to computer products, I am a fan of REALFORCE keyboards, which are manufactured in Japan. They have really made a difference in my day to day work.
When it comes to computer products, I am a fan of REALFORCE keyboards, which are manufactured in Japan. They have really made a difference in my day to day work.
>And their cars are so cheap
Have you cross shopped vehicles lately? Your statement is arguably true about Nissan and Nissan only.
Japanese light vehicles typically carry an initial price premium that self perpetuates for a whole host of reasons beyond the scope of this discussion.
Have you cross shopped vehicles lately? Your statement is arguably true about Nissan and Nissan only.
Japanese light vehicles typically carry an initial price premium that self perpetuates for a whole host of reasons beyond the scope of this discussion.
Can you cite a self perpetuating instance of the price premium ownership? I'm shopping and I've been considering Japanese vehicles as well.
>Can you cite a self perpetuating instance of the price premium ownership?
The marginal difference between buyers of various vehicles and their intended use affects how those vehicles age and how they are perceived and valued by consumers over time. I'm gonna make a whole bunch of generalizations that are true at the margins (but obviously exceptions abound), please don't take them personally and hold your outrage until the end.
I think it's easier to explain in the opposite direction (i.e negative loop where customers reduce the premium-ness of the product) so I'll do that one first. For that case I present Jeep SUVs (other than the Wrangler). These vehicles are cheap up front and Chrysler financing will write a loan to anyone with a pulse. That means that proportionately a lot more of these vehicles get sold to people who are in an economic position where loading the back seat full of bags of concrete makes more sense than renting a truck if you catch my drift. These people tend to decline maintenance that isn't absolutely necessary, they will let a wheel bearing grind and let things wobble until payday, tow a trailer a little too big, etc, etc. The vehicles they own just get treated a lot harder all around than the vehicles of people with more wiggle room in their budget. And as you'd expect that means there's a lot more examples of these vehicles on the used market in rough shape with lots of little issues. That drives down the value, makes them more accessible to the same kind of people on the used market and the cycle feeds itself and Jeep SUVs are perceived as cheap and low class.
An example in the positive direction (premium customers giving a vehicle a good reputation) would be Toyota pickups and SUVs. When new they're moderately more expensive than the competition so the people for who are already stretching things to afford that class of vehicle (e.g. midsize SUV) never get their hands on them. As a result they get more often bought by people who are in a position to justify treating them well and keeping them nice so at any given age they'll have less hard use on them and be relatively nicer and better maintained than the competition. Because the examples around are in nice shape (and priced accordingly) people think they're inherently nice cars. That makes them hold their value even further. That means even when they're old the price premium helps keep them out of the hands of the people who have no better option but to use them hard and run them into the ground. It's a positive feedback loop that's keeping them "premium"
An even more scientific (less variables) example (albeit dated) of the same thing on the domestic side of the isle with the Mercury Grand Marquis. Old people bought them and mostly treated them nicely and they held their value very well compared to comparable sedans of other makes and the identical Crown Vics that were the staple of fleets. If you take an equivalently optioned 'Vic and Grand Marquis in equivalent condition/mileage the Grand Marquis will be worth more for no reason other than the badge on the grill implies nicer condition on the used market. Same engine, same trans, same cloth seats but the difference in buyer demographics had an effect on how well the vehicles aged and the Grand Marquis will be worth more because of it.
Basically Japanese vehicles traditionally target and get sold to a slightly more premium customer and they carry that premium their whole way down the economic ladder as they age.
Source: Extensive personal experience in the bottom price bracket of the used car industry.
The marginal difference between buyers of various vehicles and their intended use affects how those vehicles age and how they are perceived and valued by consumers over time. I'm gonna make a whole bunch of generalizations that are true at the margins (but obviously exceptions abound), please don't take them personally and hold your outrage until the end.
I think it's easier to explain in the opposite direction (i.e negative loop where customers reduce the premium-ness of the product) so I'll do that one first. For that case I present Jeep SUVs (other than the Wrangler). These vehicles are cheap up front and Chrysler financing will write a loan to anyone with a pulse. That means that proportionately a lot more of these vehicles get sold to people who are in an economic position where loading the back seat full of bags of concrete makes more sense than renting a truck if you catch my drift. These people tend to decline maintenance that isn't absolutely necessary, they will let a wheel bearing grind and let things wobble until payday, tow a trailer a little too big, etc, etc. The vehicles they own just get treated a lot harder all around than the vehicles of people with more wiggle room in their budget. And as you'd expect that means there's a lot more examples of these vehicles on the used market in rough shape with lots of little issues. That drives down the value, makes them more accessible to the same kind of people on the used market and the cycle feeds itself and Jeep SUVs are perceived as cheap and low class.
An example in the positive direction (premium customers giving a vehicle a good reputation) would be Toyota pickups and SUVs. When new they're moderately more expensive than the competition so the people for who are already stretching things to afford that class of vehicle (e.g. midsize SUV) never get their hands on them. As a result they get more often bought by people who are in a position to justify treating them well and keeping them nice so at any given age they'll have less hard use on them and be relatively nicer and better maintained than the competition. Because the examples around are in nice shape (and priced accordingly) people think they're inherently nice cars. That makes them hold their value even further. That means even when they're old the price premium helps keep them out of the hands of the people who have no better option but to use them hard and run them into the ground. It's a positive feedback loop that's keeping them "premium"
An even more scientific (less variables) example (albeit dated) of the same thing on the domestic side of the isle with the Mercury Grand Marquis. Old people bought them and mostly treated them nicely and they held their value very well compared to comparable sedans of other makes and the identical Crown Vics that were the staple of fleets. If you take an equivalently optioned 'Vic and Grand Marquis in equivalent condition/mileage the Grand Marquis will be worth more for no reason other than the badge on the grill implies nicer condition on the used market. Same engine, same trans, same cloth seats but the difference in buyer demographics had an effect on how well the vehicles aged and the Grand Marquis will be worth more because of it.
Basically Japanese vehicles traditionally target and get sold to a slightly more premium customer and they carry that premium their whole way down the economic ladder as they age.
Source: Extensive personal experience in the bottom price bracket of the used car industry.
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Toyota tends to subordinate technology to process
I worked there under a very common payment model called みなし残業 (minashi-zangyou), meaning my contract gave me a minimum monthly pay which assumed a certain amount of overtime (40 hours a month in my case, meaning no additional pay was provided until surpassing 40 hours overtime in a month). This was really awful because I could be made to feel guilty for not staying late, and superiors had no qualms about keeping me. I naively accepted the contract (it was a permanent contract, highly sought after) and at some point realized that the pay was not at all worth it (about 42k a year). This was not the kind of job I could sleep at, either!
I wouldn't interpret 飲み会 in that way. Yes people drink there but I wouldn't claim that women abuse is somehow common there. From my experience Japanese are quite polite even if there are drunk.
Disclaimer: Gaijin, working in Japanese company
Disclaimer: Gaijin, working in Japanese company
I have seen behavior that would be guaranteed to get a sexual harassment suit in the US in pretty much every company I worked at, big and small, public and private.
That starts to date now but I have been at karaoke parties where some guys would be naked w/ a sock on their dick dancing. I also had to several times make sure women would get back safely because some colleagues clearly tried to get them to miss their last train and go to a love hotel.
Japan is a country where still today politicians can say that women after 40 are useless because cannot procreate. For the very few public sexual harassment affairs, the common defense of the perpetrator is to claim the woman was looking for it. It is victim blaming all the way down.
That starts to date now but I have been at karaoke parties where some guys would be naked w/ a sock on their dick dancing. I also had to several times make sure women would get back safely because some colleagues clearly tried to get them to miss their last train and go to a love hotel.
Japan is a country where still today politicians can say that women after 40 are useless because cannot procreate. For the very few public sexual harassment affairs, the common defense of the perpetrator is to claim the woman was looking for it. It is victim blaming all the way down.
Japan exists simultaneously 100 years in the past, and 100 years in the future. Averaging out it's still like living in 2020, but for each small interaction you never know if you'll be facing the 1920 experience or the 2120 experience.
> Especially women are often relegated to menial work
I think this is the phenomenon you describe (Office ladies):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_lady
But not all women are like this. There are career oriented women that are not interested in menial work or becoming housewives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyaria%C5%ABman
I think this is the phenomenon you describe (Office ladies):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_lady
But not all women are like this. There are career oriented women that are not interested in menial work or becoming housewives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyaria%C5%ABman
There's a difference between being relegated and being interested. He's saying that current business culture causes many women to work menial office jobs, not that the women themselves are not ambitious.
Really interesting comment, I know a bit about the salary-man culture with business men asleep in subways/alleys as they had dinner drinking sessions that extended past the last subway ride back to their home stations. I wonder how this practice came to be culturally? Was it something that manifested after WWII where the country felt like it needed to 'catch up' to the US and other allied countries? Or was this always a thing there? As for paper, calligraphy is a revered art form there, as well as stationary and writing letters. So being really into paper and forms does not surprise me.
There was an Economist article on this exactly: https://www.economist.com/business/2020/05/09/japanese-offic...
I got it explained quite simply by: digital signatures is by law not valid in court.
Which would explain the paper use. Don’t know if it’s still true though.
Usually things that seem inefficient boils down to law in the end.
Which would explain the paper use. Don’t know if it’s still true though.
Usually things that seem inefficient boils down to law in the end.
It's valid now.
>abuse toward women common
source please, there's no need to add baseless trivia to underline your point
source please, there's no need to add baseless trivia to underline your point
Sort this table[1] on the last column and see how far down Japan is.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report#WEF_G...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report#WEF_G...
Any Japanese care to chime in on how WFH is accepted culturally? When I worked for a Japanese tech company I was surprised by how old school they were. Landlines, business cards, reams of paper, week long meetings about policies, and this was a software company. WFH was forbidden unless it was an emergency.
It traditionally isn't. Japanese middle management practices would often make office space look good. Especially in software, the culture is quite antiquated, because software is traditionally seen as a cost center, and most companies externalize all their IT. If I had to describe most offices in Japan, it would be an unglamorous version of Mad Men.
The culture of the customer is always right also implies making contortions to please them, including many on site meetings where you have to be there just as a sign of respect. It is interesting the first time you do it, but gets boring fast.
I believe Japan has so much untapped potential, the generalization of WFH may be the catalyst for Japanese management practices to catch up the last 60 years.
The culture of the customer is always right also implies making contortions to please them, including many on site meetings where you have to be there just as a sign of respect. It is interesting the first time you do it, but gets boring fast.
I believe Japan has so much untapped potential, the generalization of WFH may be the catalyst for Japanese management practices to catch up the last 60 years.
> The culture of the customer is always right also implies making contortions to please them, including many on site meetings where you have to be there just as a sign of respect.
I've always wondered if there could be something like a badge you could put on your business, to signal that you're participating in a separate sub-economy where the customer isn't always right. There must be modern companies where both sides of the giving-face transaction are just going through the motions with neither side actually thinking that that's the way things should be. Can't both sides in a long-standing relationship just get together to agree to change the deal? Or, if they can't do it on their own, can't a third party help them?
Maybe there could be a Japanese charter-city with the goal of being a "mock Silicon Valley", i.e. where every business there knows that every other business else there is going to present itself with the attitude of a real SV startup where you "fire your bad customers" and so forth. So, when dealing with a company from there, everyone else would know that you don't have to give them any face, just like you don't need to give real Americans any face.
I've always wondered if there could be something like a badge you could put on your business, to signal that you're participating in a separate sub-economy where the customer isn't always right. There must be modern companies where both sides of the giving-face transaction are just going through the motions with neither side actually thinking that that's the way things should be. Can't both sides in a long-standing relationship just get together to agree to change the deal? Or, if they can't do it on their own, can't a third party help them?
Maybe there could be a Japanese charter-city with the goal of being a "mock Silicon Valley", i.e. where every business there knows that every other business else there is going to present itself with the attitude of a real SV startup where you "fire your bad customers" and so forth. So, when dealing with a company from there, everyone else would know that you don't have to give them any face, just like you don't need to give real Americans any face.
Perhaps one of the biggest barriers to fast moving SV style startups would be how difficult firing is in Japan. You need around 18 months to fire an ineffective employee. (And in contested cases I've heard of an employee who stayed on payroll for 4 years while the firing was finalised). It's one reason why people often face being harassed to the point of resignation rather than formally fired.
Indeed. It is particularly depressing to handle as a manager, because unless you have top notch HR, your only recourse to deal with somebody who does not perform is passive agressiveness, or at best plain ignorance. Imagine the effect on the morale for other people.
IIRC a few of the Japanese megacorps are known to just move underperformers to a do-nothing role where they at least can't cause harm. They hope they'll get tired of doing nothing and quit; but even if they don't, the company just moves on—treating their future salary as a write-off expense, and hiring someone else to fulfill their original role as if they had already left.
This actually isn’t a requirement unless you’re in the national pension system. When you’re below a certain number of employees you don’t have to join the national pension and many of those worker protections also don’t apply to you.
I'm wrapped in the software dev industry bubble and WFH is mostly doing well here. Some of my friends' workplaces are trying to do a half remote, half office situation where you come in to the office 2-3 days a week. Usually it's because they haven't got their communication flow done well and need to use those in-face times to do proper coordination.
I've been reading some Japanese discussions boards about remote and it's a mixed big. A lot of people enjoy remote and say it's their first time not having to do OT anymore because of the lack of (assumed) peer pressure. Some new managers are now discovering that they can contact their employees at any time of day now due to services like Slack. Not that they couldn't before, it's just more efficient now.
Either the general feeling is 'I've seen things now that I cannot unsee' and the expectation is things will change but no one is sure in which direction.
I've been reading some Japanese discussions boards about remote and it's a mixed big. A lot of people enjoy remote and say it's their first time not having to do OT anymore because of the lack of (assumed) peer pressure. Some new managers are now discovering that they can contact their employees at any time of day now due to services like Slack. Not that they couldn't before, it's just more efficient now.
Either the general feeling is 'I've seen things now that I cannot unsee' and the expectation is things will change but no one is sure in which direction.
I live in Japan and at first everyone was against it, now everyone is for it and a whole new industry is cropping up. HP is early to the market with their solutions and Fujitsu must also be sensing the opportunity.
The reason the tides are changing is that there is a social consciousness aspect to it now whereas before it would've been viewed differently.
The reason the tides are changing is that there is a social consciousness aspect to it now whereas before it would've been viewed differently.
Add fax machines and it will be perfect picture of current situation in Germany.
How are two of the most advanced manufacturing countries so backwards?
It is a pendulum swing: these countries advanced a lot after WW2, then they believed they found the ideal way and got stuck there. In the meanwhile time flows linear, other countries were left behind but caught up and moved on. This way Japan and Germany still work well due to their excellent history, not recent trends.
I would say more like they found a local maxima and stayed there, never going even slightly less efficient in order to find a higher maxima than the one they had.
Kind of reminds me of which countries have the fastest/cheapest Internet access now. The countries that had Internet first tend to have shitty copper infrastructure and expensive plans, while the newer countries are all up with the latest fibre infrastructure and fast/cheap plans.
Kind of reminds me of which countries have the fastest/cheapest Internet access now. The countries that had Internet first tend to have shitty copper infrastructure and expensive plans, while the newer countries are all up with the latest fibre infrastructure and fast/cheap plans.
I don't think there is a need to go slightly less efficient in order to improve the current processes; they just got frozen in time and there are many such examples with companies and countries. Remember Japan is not the first time doing it, at the end of the shoguns era they were behind the rest of the world they were more advanced than.
There is always a dip in productivity when switching systems as you need to untrain people from the old and train them in the new system. Then you need to work out all the bugs and edge cases in the new system.
So even if it will make you far more efficient there will be a temporary productivity slump as people get adjusted to it.
So even if it will make you far more efficient there will be a temporary productivity slump as people get adjusted to it.
This might be an over generalization, but the answer is in your question. Culturally, both places just don't respect digital as much as they love anything physical.
Naturally. You can't do business in Japan without a fax machine.
Seriously!? I thought, Germany was unique with this fax machine thing.
A surprising amount of American personal business is still dependent on a fax machine. Especially in dealings with government, if you can't physically hand it in, it may need to be faxed. Always a terrifying feeling when you send a document containing all your personal identifying information to the fax nether, hopefully you dialed correctly.
When I legally changed my name in 2014, I had to fax my name change paperwork to a ton of different institutions. Fax or snail mail were the only methods they would accept.
Yep... dealing with a large US bank right now and fax is the only way to do what I need to do. I made an inquiry at the IRS last year, fax was my only option for submitting some info they needed to fulfill my request. Fax is not dead in the US yet.
One example from the US: Back in March, I was reading about people having trouble filing for unemployment because somehow faxes were deemed a secure communication method and they couldn't find a place to send a fax.
I recently had to get a copy of my car loan from chase in order to get new state license plates after moving. The 2 options for delivery were by mail or fax...
At a large Seattle-based technology company ~10 years ago, the only way to submit an expense report was via fax "for security", but there were no fax machines in the office, only multifunction printers that could send virtual faxes (not via a phone line)
Ah, office theatre.
Can Japanese residents comment on how this works WRT office space in the home? Do people typically have space in their homes to have a proper home office setup?
My wife and I are both WFH right now, and we had to buy a second desk and chair and repurpose what was previously our 2nd bedroom. The 3rd bedroom has always been a home office. If we lived in a downtown apartment, I'm not sure what we'd do, as we're both in management and spend the majority of the day teleconferencing.
My wife and I are both WFH right now, and we had to buy a second desk and chair and repurpose what was previously our 2nd bedroom. The 3rd bedroom has always been a home office. If we lived in a downtown apartment, I'm not sure what we'd do, as we're both in management and spend the majority of the day teleconferencing.
Very ironic fact from the past (and an interesting explanation WHY kitchen areas are REALLY well lit in many (older) Japanese homes.
After the war, Japanese USED TO work from home, since there was no other way, and that common area was usually the only one away from bedrooms etc. Then, after the infrastructure starting to recover, buildings coming up, offices etc. Culturally, ALL employees were required to return to their offices. This development also had side effects in making "focused communities" (business of certain kind concentrated around certain area), which made housing expensive and many employees having to live far away - 2hour commute in packed train is nothing unusual, and I've met people who actually don't mind since this is their time between home and work when they can kick back, read a book and "relax".
After the war, Japanese USED TO work from home, since there was no other way, and that common area was usually the only one away from bedrooms etc. Then, after the infrastructure starting to recover, buildings coming up, offices etc. Culturally, ALL employees were required to return to their offices. This development also had side effects in making "focused communities" (business of certain kind concentrated around certain area), which made housing expensive and many employees having to live far away - 2hour commute in packed train is nothing unusual, and I've met people who actually don't mind since this is their time between home and work when they can kick back, read a book and "relax".
It's also very interesting that this is where the whole mobile gaming gatcha market comes from. Your user base has no free time and tons of expendable income, so they'll gladly spend thousands of dollars a month on the games they play on their daily 2 hour commute.
If commuting is effortless, it is relaxing. I can't walk while reading a book, but you sure can fly on a bullet train while reading. Back when I was commuting, I actually would get a little miffed if my bus commute ended up being faster that day as it would prevent me from getting a chapter done and hitting a good stopping point in the book I was reading.
You can walk while listening to audiobook or TTS though.
I mean FWIW I’m American and your explanation sounds very foreign to me. I’m a millennial though, so owning a house at all is quite obstacle. Scrounging up a down payment when even a 2 bedroom apartment is $1-$1.5 million is not the easiest task. Renting an extra 2 bedrooms to have lying around in case we suddenly need 2 offices would also cost an extra couple thousand dollars a month. My wife and I are both working from home from a 1 bedroom apartment currently.
The US has very localized housing problems. Many tech giants are realizing that they have to either diversify their locations or enter into a housing spiral, as there just aren't enough houses for how many people they'd like to hire.
Once you step out of a small number of markets, the price problem goes away. I live in a well sized metro in the midwest, and I've worked, from here, for companies you've heard about. 4 bedrooms in my street, sitting on half an acre and a decent school district, are $250k. A 1 bedroom apartment would be under a thousand a month to rent, and that's a modern building with good appliances, a gym, a pool and gigabit internet. A single person in tech, right out of school, can easily save enough to get a mortgage in their first year working.
So yes, your situation is very real, but if there was less pressure to be in Seattle, NY or SF, the housing problems would melt.
Once you step out of a small number of markets, the price problem goes away. I live in a well sized metro in the midwest, and I've worked, from here, for companies you've heard about. 4 bedrooms in my street, sitting on half an acre and a decent school district, are $250k. A 1 bedroom apartment would be under a thousand a month to rent, and that's a modern building with good appliances, a gym, a pool and gigabit internet. A single person in tech, right out of school, can easily save enough to get a mortgage in their first year working.
So yes, your situation is very real, but if there was less pressure to be in Seattle, NY or SF, the housing problems would melt.
It's more that the price problem follows the workers.
A decade ago, Seattle was cheap. You could get 4/5 BR homes in Kirkland for $400K. I just checked, and those homes are going for $1.2M now. Similarly, one of my former Google coworkers moved out to the Boulder office. When I'd checked on Boulder in the late 00s, you could get nice homes for $250-300K. He paid about $850K.
Wherever you have highly paid tech workers, you will have highly paid tech workers bidding up houses. You just have to get ahead of them, and buy where the FAANG offices are just being constructed rather than wait until you work there. True remote work (where you could dial in from anywhere, not just a city near an office) would fix this, but that's not really what's being offered these days, and when it is the salaries are more inline with what people make in the Midwest than what they make in Silicon Valley.
A decade ago, Seattle was cheap. You could get 4/5 BR homes in Kirkland for $400K. I just checked, and those homes are going for $1.2M now. Similarly, one of my former Google coworkers moved out to the Boulder office. When I'd checked on Boulder in the late 00s, you could get nice homes for $250-300K. He paid about $850K.
Wherever you have highly paid tech workers, you will have highly paid tech workers bidding up houses. You just have to get ahead of them, and buy where the FAANG offices are just being constructed rather than wait until you work there. True remote work (where you could dial in from anywhere, not just a city near an office) would fix this, but that's not really what's being offered these days, and when it is the salaries are more inline with what people make in the Midwest than what they make in Silicon Valley.
Pretty much any growing metro is experiencing a housing crisis because no where is building enough housing.
>Scrounging up a down payment when even a 2 bedroom apartment is $1-$1.5 million is not the easiest task.
This is why I don't live in the Bay Area, and have no plans to. I was casually surfing Trulia, and found new construction in my area starting at $170k for a 3 bed/2 bathroom. The idea of paying that much for an apartment(!) is simply foreign to me.
This is why I don't live in the Bay Area, and have no plans to. I was casually surfing Trulia, and found new construction in my area starting at $170k for a 3 bed/2 bathroom. The idea of paying that much for an apartment(!) is simply foreign to me.
My generation (millennials) really do think life only exists on a handful of very expensive urban centers.
Most of the country is very affordable, but I guess they don’t have advertising tech companies saving the world so it’s not as desirable.
Most of the country is very affordable, but I guess they don’t have advertising tech companies saving the world so it’s not as desirable.
That's not the case at all for me and my millennial friends who have spread out to over a dozen different cities. Even my CS friends didn't move out of the midwest and are still in Chicago, Fort Wayne, and Indianapolis.
I get it. That's part of the reason we live AND work in the 'burbs (out near IAD, instead of inside 495). We were very purposeful about where we bought - balance of cost, location, etc. It's doable in most regions (SF/SV and NYC being notable exceptions).
And it's why I asked. At least my mental picture of Japan has most people living in very small (by American standards) apartments. That might not be accurate, based on other comments - with many people commuting 2+ hours each direction (which seems completely bonkers to me). Either way, the average size of a home in Japan is smaller than the US (though I have no idea how it compares to Europe).
And it's why I asked. At least my mental picture of Japan has most people living in very small (by American standards) apartments. That might not be accurate, based on other comments - with many people commuting 2+ hours each direction (which seems completely bonkers to me). Either way, the average size of a home in Japan is smaller than the US (though I have no idea how it compares to Europe).
2+ hours sounds like they want to live pretty far outside of the city. You can get a reasonably priced and sized place in Chiba and be in the heart of Tokyo in an hourish.
Yeah, it does. I got that from kubatyszko's response to my OP.
I grew up in Silicon Valley and worked there until a few years ago when I moved to the Midwest to do a PhD. My wife and I are millenials and she is also from a big city area. The plan was to move back to Silicon Valley, where I can easily get a lucrative job in my field. But when we did the math, it was an easy decision to stay in the Midwest.
I miss the weather, but we're so much better off financially. Plus we bought a 2,400 sqft home with 3/4 acre in an amazing area for $300k. I have a huge home office, and two extra bedrooms. I don't need this much land, but to be anywhere near this comfortable in Silicon Valley would be years off and would require several things to work out perfectly.
I miss the weather, but we're so much better off financially. Plus we bought a 2,400 sqft home with 3/4 acre in an amazing area for $300k. I have a huge home office, and two extra bedrooms. I don't need this much land, but to be anywhere near this comfortable in Silicon Valley would be years off and would require several things to work out perfectly.
In the same spot. Home ownership is so out of reach for the vast majority of the people my age. Even with good salaries and savings!
Most people my age who have purchased a home got significant help from their parents.
Most people my age who have purchased a home got significant help from their parents.
It's really not out of reach unless you insist on living in a major metropolis. A young couple earning under $100k combined can afford a comfortable 3-bedroom home in all 50 states, just not in a large city. Mortgage rates are near all-time lows and the 20% "required downpayment" has been a myth since before you were born. You don't even need great credit to buy a home with a mortgage under $1500/mo all-in with taxes and insurance. Now that remote work is increasingly accepted there's never been a better time to buy in the suburbs.
People go where the jobs are. They are going to live wherever employers "insist on" locating their offices.
20% down payment isn't a myth; if you don't put 20% down (and don't have some special situation like a VA loan) you have to pay for private mortgage insurance which can be hundreds per month, as you're buying the lender insurance against the possibility of you defaulting on your loan.
20% down payment isn't a myth; if you don't put 20% down (and don't have some special situation like a VA loan) you have to pay for private mortgage insurance which can be hundreds per month, as you're buying the lender insurance against the possibility of you defaulting on your loan.
Depending on your situation, PMI may be worth it. For example I was paying 1200 a month for a 1 br apartment. They wanted to up it to 1500 a month. Instead I bought a house with 5% down. The total monthly payment for a 200k house, including PMI, is 1,100 a month.
Even with PMI I am still paying less than living in the same apartment year over year.
Even with PMI I am still paying less than living in the same apartment year over year.
PMI is reasonable. I put down 5% on my first home, (<$20k) and commuted via train. Just get a cell modem and do your morning work rituals (email, news, etc) on the train. I sold that house 3 years later at 13.5% appreciation, with good equity on top. I used all of that towards the down payment on house #2.
Commute in from a small investment home/condo to let equity + appreciation get you into the home you want a few years down the road. Even in my starter, I got twice the sqft for the same monthly as my not-very-close apt.
Commute in from a small investment home/condo to let equity + appreciation get you into the home you want a few years down the road. Even in my starter, I got twice the sqft for the same monthly as my not-very-close apt.
5% down is typical in high cost cities
$100k? A quick google shows me that median household income in the US is closer to $60k. And that's the median, so half of households will be lower than that.
I presume the OP's comment was in the context of the typical HN crowd, which I would imagine has a higher than average income.
I would guess the ones earning that much are probably in metro areas like the bay area and Seattle.
I imagine those in the Bay area are making a lot more than 50k/year, or at least there are always SV devs chiming in saying they are making 300-600k/year (the OP said 100k for a couple).
I make the equivalent of 100k USD in a tier 2 city in Scotland (a single income that is, not a couple combined). It's not outlandish for senior roles across much of the UK (with "normal" companies, not FAANG).
I make the equivalent of 100k USD in a tier 2 city in Scotland (a single income that is, not a couple combined). It's not outlandish for senior roles across much of the UK (with "normal" companies, not FAANG).
Yeah, dude, there's a site "Levels FYI" that gives real data. If anyone's having trouble wrapping their brains around it, just keep in mind that every business needs to send a sizable chunk of its revenue through Silicon Valley to stay competitive (via advertising, office equipment/software, apps, etc)
100k is attainable even in the middle of nowhere in the USA, but you'd probably be better off working remotely for someone for 120k+
100k is attainable even in the middle of nowhere in the USA, but you'd probably be better off working remotely for someone for 120k+
New CS grads start off at like 120k. New boot camp grads start off at like 100k. If you're experienced, you might get up to 200k. If you're experienced and good, you can hit 300k and beyond. Once FAANG sets the standard like this, then basically everyone else needs to offer similar salaries if they want to compete for that same quality of engineer.
Assumptions, not data. Even if you assume the reader of HN is in tech firm, you can assume the "household" income average
It seems a reasonable enough assumption to me, that tech workers make more than average - so much so that I didn't feel the need to trawl for a peer reviewed data source.
It was a somewhat-arbitrary line. $60k/yr is about $3k/mo takehome. While that's not a lot of money, it's enough to live a modest lifestyle including a mortgage and raising children with only a single parent working. I'm not saying it won't be a struggle, but it's doable. It's how I was raised and it's how most of my family lives, and I'm in NJ, which is in the top 10 most expensive states. My niece and nephew-in-law live comfortably on $70k with two kids, two cars, one earner, and just bought a house. Life is hard and that's ok.
While true, ~30 percent of households in the US are single-person (see https://www.statista.com/statistics/242189/disitribution-of-...). And a number of others are single-parent. The parent specifically talked about a couple's combined incomes.
Looking at https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-p... (the "Married-Couple Families" section), the first data set ("All Races"), the numbers I see for median household income, by age, are:
25-29: $76.5k 30-34: $92k
30-34 is stretching the definitions of a "young couple", of course. I'd love numbers for 20-25, but this data set lumps in 15-24 all together, though the set of married couples under 20 is presumably pretty small.
$76k is still not $100k, of course.
Looking at https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-p... (the "Married-Couple Families" section), the first data set ("All Races"), the numbers I see for median household income, by age, are:
25-29: $76.5k 30-34: $92k
30-34 is stretching the definitions of a "young couple", of course. I'd love numbers for 20-25, but this data set lumps in 15-24 all together, though the set of married couples under 20 is presumably pretty small.
$76k is still not $100k, of course.
That is true; however, only 29% of the households are dual income.
I agree, but the jobs are only in the cities, unfortunately. Remote work is a thing, but it seems that isn't quite as easy to find as HN would think.
After all this, for many people I suspect that living in the core area of an "elite" city is going to become a luxury lifestyle decision rather than at least a perceived cost that is part and parcel of desirable jobs. Some will still choose to do so, but it will be the same sort of expensive optional choice that living in a trendy beach or mountain town will be.
Or we just don't live in the Bay Area...
You can take 600k 30 minutes out of seattle and love your 2800sqft modern home (approx/just now starting to look for myself)
Update: (Not modern but im a fan anyway. https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bothell/15601-Cascadian-Way-98012/...
Update: (Not modern but im a fan anyway. https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bothell/15601-Cascadian-Way-98012/...
I used to live in that area and it would regularly take 45+ minutes to get to/from Bellevue and could take over an hour to Seattle.
Edit: also a home like that would probably have been like 450k just 4yrs ago. Prices have skyrocketed around here
Edit: also a home like that would probably have been like 450k just 4yrs ago. Prices have skyrocketed around here
> 450k just 4yrs ago
> > 600k
Speaking of skyrocketing, GP's link says 700k for me.
> > 600k
Speaking of skyrocketing, GP's link says 700k for me.
Scrounging up a down payment when even a 2 bedroom apartment is $1-$1.5 million is not the easiest task
America is a big country and is not specific enough when describing these prices.
America is a big country and is not specific enough when describing these prices.
Japan resident here. Home floor areas tend to be smaller than in North America, at least, but discussions I’ve seen in the Japanese press about WFH issues since corona have not emphasized that point as much as they have childcare, work-life balance, exercise, etc. People I know personally who are working from home haven’t been complaining about space, though I’m sure it’s a problem for some people.
Very unlikely that people have enough space. I'm here in Tokyo and video chatting with many clients' staff members. Most seem to work at their dinner table (for those that have one) and also often from their bed.
In Japan you can end up with more office space at home if you can spare space for a decent desk than at work, where desks are small and crammed next to each other's, at least until COVID19.
You think this will change now? (the crowded office spaces)
Not sure. Even politicians still hold up meetings way too close to each other to avoid COVID19 contamination so I doubt there's a realization that proximity needs to change. Private companies have limited floor space and management style is not well suited to having everyone work from home, so it's going to be back in the office with masks, rather than redesigning the work space.
Even in the US with larger houses (outside cities anyway), few people have an entire room to dedicate to a home office, much less two. We repurpose attics, garages, large closets, guest rooms, etc. If a couple wants two dedicated permanent office rooms, it doesn't make sense to stay in an urban center. It might make sense to rent external office space (perhaps to share with others), or stay cramped and consider it part of the tradeoff of not having to commute.
On average it depends on your family size and if you live in a big city. If you're a double income household with no kids, you still might not have enough room to carve out office space so one partner has to take work elsewhere or work side by side and vacate to take calls. Even for singles I doubt they have a decent working space unless they're into gaming.
There were some news stories about people at organizations that have committed to wfh for the foreseable future relocate to suburbs but a lot of companies reverted to office work once Japan lifted the state of emergency. Some companies are hesitant to downsize their office space and eat their losses in the middle of their contract. Other companies are struggling with managing their workforce.
There was a news story about a company that required workers to install a mouse tracker on their PC. If the mouse doesn't move for 5 min, they'd were docked a certain amount of pay so this guy would have his kid fiddle with the mouse if he wanted to go for walk or make a quick store run.
There were some news stories about people at organizations that have committed to wfh for the foreseable future relocate to suburbs but a lot of companies reverted to office work once Japan lifted the state of emergency. Some companies are hesitant to downsize their office space and eat their losses in the middle of their contract. Other companies are struggling with managing their workforce.
There was a news story about a company that required workers to install a mouse tracker on their PC. If the mouse doesn't move for 5 min, they'd were docked a certain amount of pay so this guy would have his kid fiddle with the mouse if he wanted to go for walk or make a quick store run.
Me and my girlfriend are lucky(?) enough to live in Saitama so we have an extra room that we’ve converted into an office. Most of my colleagues/friends don’t have this space and had to slap their computers on top of their Kotatsu’s before summer rolled around, now because this doesn’t look to be ending anytime soon they’re all buying desks or “floor office chairs”
I'm intensely curious about how this will affect larger cities like Tokyo if the trend stays. Isn't / wasn't the real estate prices in Tokyo super important for the Japanese economy? If workers could suddenly move out to the burbs how would that affect places like Tokyo?
High real estate prices don't help most economies. Neither do high oil prices, high energy prices, high raw-materials prices, high food prices, or other high prices.
Exceptions apply if your local economy is in that sector specifically, but this prosperity only comes at the expense of output everywhere else.
In the ultimate economy, everything is free and you can have as much as you want.
Exceptions apply if your local economy is in that sector specifically, but this prosperity only comes at the expense of output everywhere else.
In the ultimate economy, everything is free and you can have as much as you want.
Exactly, high real estate costs just mean that the barrier to entry for new businesses is higher, and that margins (for businesses and individuals) are smaller.
In their case they can live further out of the city to save cost and have a bigger space
The one big downside I have noticed from WFH is that any efficiency I introduce in my own work becomes reclaimed time. If I can crank through a days work in 4 hours in the morning I can reasonably take it easy in the afternoon. This is great but it has created some stress around things like code reviews and impromptu mentoring etc.
If I am sitting in the office I may as well spend 20 minutes on a code review trying to figure out a cleaner solution, but at home its harder to do it. There is just a general feeling of racing towards that 'done' status which represents a good amount of completed work for the day. Before it was just 9-5 and a thorough code review was a welcome use of that time.
If I am sitting in the office I may as well spend 20 minutes on a code review trying to figure out a cleaner solution, but at home its harder to do it. There is just a general feeling of racing towards that 'done' status which represents a good amount of completed work for the day. Before it was just 9-5 and a thorough code review was a welcome use of that time.
I’ve been working from home for six years and I consider that the biggest upside actually. I don’t have to waste time pretending to work just because it’s “work hours”. A lot of times good enough really is good enough and my reward for getting my work done early is I get to reclaim my time. It typically balances out with the times I’m still working past 5 or 6pm for things that really do matter.
The most common complaint about WFH is actually the opposite, that the work day is never really done because you don’t have to shut down your computer and drive home like you would in an office. WFH has allowed me to reclaim hours that would have been spent poorly (just doing work for the sake of filling time) and lets me choose how that time should be used.
If I got my work done and everyone agrees the work is done, there is no reason to keep working. We only do it in the office because our manager and coworkers are watching us.
The most common complaint about WFH is actually the opposite, that the work day is never really done because you don’t have to shut down your computer and drive home like you would in an office. WFH has allowed me to reclaim hours that would have been spent poorly (just doing work for the sake of filling time) and lets me choose how that time should be used.
If I got my work done and everyone agrees the work is done, there is no reason to keep working. We only do it in the office because our manager and coworkers are watching us.
I think it's even more difficult when you factor in kids at home. We've had to deal with that at our home which means our ability to get work done has been cut in half. It also puts a lot of burden on co-workers. The biggest issue with this has been people without kids wondering why coworkers WITH kids aren't getting as much done.
But once the situation with the coronavirus is over, the kids will be in school/daycare, so this won't be an issue.
Unless you have year round school, this will always be an issue.
Not commenting on this specific case here, but I believe we currently see the pendulum swinging from one extreme (WFH only at a very exclusive subset of companies) to the other extreme ("WFH first" policies)
I'm convinced the true winners will be those companies that find a smart mix of both worlds. This includes recognizing that both concepts have their strengths (e.g., people are a lot more disciplined about meetings in a remote context) and weaknesses (e.g., a further breakdown of the separation between work and live). WFH needs more than just giving people the green light to work from home on selected days. It also, for example, needs a radical rethink of office infrastructure (most offices are not designed for 10 people sitting side-by-side and being on the phone most of the day), management culture, and shared best practices how to approach non-transactional work (e.g., how to tackle complex topics with people who do not know each other remotely?)
I'm convinced the true winners will be those companies that find a smart mix of both worlds. This includes recognizing that both concepts have their strengths (e.g., people are a lot more disciplined about meetings in a remote context) and weaknesses (e.g., a further breakdown of the separation between work and live). WFH needs more than just giving people the green light to work from home on selected days. It also, for example, needs a radical rethink of office infrastructure (most offices are not designed for 10 people sitting side-by-side and being on the phone most of the day), management culture, and shared best practices how to approach non-transactional work (e.g., how to tackle complex topics with people who do not know each other remotely?)
There is no middle ground -- WFH is self-reinforcing trend, because offices are much less useful when they are half-empty and all processes have go online. As soon as some coworkers move, others follow. If people start working 2-3 days at home ... they start to think about moving somewhere better. I wonder what is the endgame of this rearrangement? Perhaps nomadism will become common? But in that case, cities will lose even more cohesion than they ve lost so far. If we take away the work factor, the question "where do i/my family live" becomes much more open-ended. Obvious choice #1 is near extended family. What else motivates people to move?
I tend to agree in that coming in only one or two days a week gives you some greater flexibility in where you live, but only some. For a lot of people whose companies are in expensive urban areas, WFH a few days per week means they need more housing than they might otherwise need but they can't move somewhere that's cheaper/preferable.
And while teams can coordinate time in the office, the more people are mostly remote the less value there is in others coming in.
>Obvious choice #1 is near extended family. What else motivates people to move?
They like the environment more? I work with someone who just ditched their downtown city apartment and bought a place on the coast of Maine.
And while teams can coordinate time in the office, the more people are mostly remote the less value there is in others coming in.
>Obvious choice #1 is near extended family. What else motivates people to move?
They like the environment more? I work with someone who just ditched their downtown city apartment and bought a place on the coast of Maine.
I don't think it's anywhere near as bimodal as you say.
As far as human pyschology goes, I think it's hard to be productive over the very long term with almost no real in-person time to connect with your team. We're social animals and we bond best when together. And we are more productive and efficient when we have bonded in that way.
Even famously all-remote companies shell out cash to fly everyone together at least a few times a year because of this. At some point, though, there are diminishing returns to getting everyone in the same room. The optimum point surely varies from person to person and depends on the nature of their work, but I don't think the peak is "every day" or "never".
Yes, offices are less useful when they're empty half the time. But homes are too! Most American homes sit empty from 8am-6pm every single day. Miles and miles of dead suburban streets, empty driveways, houses silent except for the ticking of thermostats.
I'm interested to see a company try a middle ground like this: Everyone works from home most days. At some periodic interval, maybe once a week, everyone comes to some shared space for meeting and coordination work.
This sounds like the worst of both worlds because you need both home office space and office space. But the office space can likely be shared with several teams. An office big enough for 100 people could service a 1,000 if teams only came in once every two weeks. If in-person days are mostly around meetings and communication, you don't need a lot of dedicated desk space. It doesn't need to feel like a permanent "territory" for each worker. Instead, just a pile of shared meeting rooms and open spaces.
If you still have to come in a few times, then it sounds like you're still stuck living close to an urban center. But, actually, the livable radius increases dramatically. A one-hour each way commute is a nightmare if you do it every day. That's ten hours a week stuck in a car. But if you only come in once every two weeks, then you could cut your total commute time in half while living five times as far away. And, since in-person days are mostly for meeting anyway, it's viable to have an understanding that commuting is part of your "work day" and have a shorter in-person work day.
In return, you get to spend less time commuting and more time in your own community, with your pets, with your loved ones, and in your own home.
As far as human pyschology goes, I think it's hard to be productive over the very long term with almost no real in-person time to connect with your team. We're social animals and we bond best when together. And we are more productive and efficient when we have bonded in that way.
Even famously all-remote companies shell out cash to fly everyone together at least a few times a year because of this. At some point, though, there are diminishing returns to getting everyone in the same room. The optimum point surely varies from person to person and depends on the nature of their work, but I don't think the peak is "every day" or "never".
Yes, offices are less useful when they're empty half the time. But homes are too! Most American homes sit empty from 8am-6pm every single day. Miles and miles of dead suburban streets, empty driveways, houses silent except for the ticking of thermostats.
I'm interested to see a company try a middle ground like this: Everyone works from home most days. At some periodic interval, maybe once a week, everyone comes to some shared space for meeting and coordination work.
This sounds like the worst of both worlds because you need both home office space and office space. But the office space can likely be shared with several teams. An office big enough for 100 people could service a 1,000 if teams only came in once every two weeks. If in-person days are mostly around meetings and communication, you don't need a lot of dedicated desk space. It doesn't need to feel like a permanent "territory" for each worker. Instead, just a pile of shared meeting rooms and open spaces.
If you still have to come in a few times, then it sounds like you're still stuck living close to an urban center. But, actually, the livable radius increases dramatically. A one-hour each way commute is a nightmare if you do it every day. That's ten hours a week stuck in a car. But if you only come in once every two weeks, then you could cut your total commute time in half while living five times as far away. And, since in-person days are mostly for meeting anyway, it's viable to have an understanding that commuting is part of your "work day" and have a shorter in-person work day.
In return, you get to spend less time commuting and more time in your own community, with your pets, with your loved ones, and in your own home.
>almost no real in-person time to connect with your team
I work on a very distributed team and, in normal times, we just physically get together in one of our offices or in conjunction with some event a lot of people are attending anyway a few times a year. Most of us (normally) travel a good part of the time anyway so it's really not especially disruptive.
I actually agree that remote teams should have some real F2F time but that needn't mean living within commuting distance of a common office.
I work on a very distributed team and, in normal times, we just physically get together in one of our offices or in conjunction with some event a lot of people are attending anyway a few times a year. Most of us (normally) travel a good part of the time anyway so it's really not especially disruptive.
I actually agree that remote teams should have some real F2F time but that needn't mean living within commuting distance of a common office.
> Obvious choice #1 is near extended family. What else motivates people to move?
Anecdotally, I am aware of folks who were highly motivated to move away from their extended family.
Anecdotally, I am aware of folks who were highly motivated to move away from their extended family.
I’m not sure I agree here. I struggle with the assumption that all processes can go online without any loss of value. For some jobs this might be possible, but the more a job is not just about realizing clearly articulated requirements, the more this will be difficult. Hence, companies will expect a pay cut for the loss in productivity. Again, I believe there is a great middle ground to be found that leverages the strengths of both worlds
The big coming conflict is over splitting the surplus. If remote friendly policies going into play, even if it’s the “live three hours away because it’s only once every two weeks” variety then pay is going to fall. Many engineers seems pretty excited about the glorious remote future but I don’t think they’ve thought through the impact on compensation. Even after the Facebook announcement the prevailing sentiment seemed to be denial.
Wow, that huge for Japan I believe.
I live at Kichijoji and it takes me 1 hour to get to work in Akasaka. I love my place and somehow get used to this routine, but honestly I wish I could rent a place in Japanese countryside.
If I could somehow guarantee a remote-work job for the foreesable future I'd love to move back and live somewhere more countryside but still with decent links to Tokyo such as the Shonan area or even somewhere a bit more east of Kichijoji like Hachioji or Ome.
I think this is the key thing. 75% of our family's problems would be solved if we could untangle ourselves from the burden of having to live in job-driven-metro areas close to the office. Mortgages would no longer be a problem, neither would school districts, neither would crushing commutes. Neither would childcare, since we'd have enough room in the house for help.
You can actually get a house for free in some areas, mostly central Japan.
Many cities are becoming deserted and houses are left alone, governments offer incentives to take them over. Might come with a catch such as committing to maintenance of farming.
The main catch is that the "free" houses are usually in complete disrepair and require a lot of non-free work to make them livable.
Building a new house in Japan is surprisingly affordable, but getting one built to Western standards (say, effective insulation and an expected lifespan of more than 20 years) is not. And I'm not even being facetious here: Japanese building codes assume that wooden houses last for 20 and concrete ones for thirty, then they get torn down and rebuilt by the next land owner.
Building a new house in Japan is surprisingly affordable, but getting one built to Western standards (say, effective insulation and an expected lifespan of more than 20 years) is not. And I'm not even being facetious here: Japanese building codes assume that wooden houses last for 20 and concrete ones for thirty, then they get torn down and rebuilt by the next land owner.
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My wife did a little light reading on this subject and found it's more complicated than that. It turns out that finding the owner of these properties is an enormous challenge because due to the high level of taxes and fees associated with these buildings, the owners are reluctant to claim them (to avoid paying the taxes/fees). I would like to see someone living in Japan confirm this, though.
I haven't seen any houses being offered for free in my area, but have seen number that were listed at less than $15K USD and wouldn't consider any of them livable without at least some major renovation - and in most cases you'd probably want to just demolish the house completely and build something new. Of course different people might have differing definitions of what is "livable", so your mileage may vary.
Focusing on the abandoned houses is a bit of a red herring, though. There is definitely affordable non-free housing to be found in Japan... less than $100K USD for a move-in ready house in a small city seems very doable to me.
Focusing on the abandoned houses is a bit of a red herring, though. There is definitely affordable non-free housing to be found in Japan... less than $100K USD for a move-in ready house in a small city seems very doable to me.
That's because a land owner isn't able to release(return to gov) their lands in Japan.
I’d love to see companies convert ‘Unlimited vacation time at your discretion’ over to ‘Unlimited remote at your discretion’.
"Unlimited vacation" is a deception. Real perks are to have 15 or 20 days of vacations, increasing with seniority at the company, and forced vacations (i.e., the company forces you to take the vacations every year). It is also good for the company health (ensure that no 1 person missing has a large impact).
I'm a cynic about unlimited vacation policies for a few reasons:
1. At its core, I believe it's a clever bit of financial engineering disguised as a worker-first policy. All of a sudden your startup doesn't have any accrued PTO to keep on the books, and doesn't have to pay out anything to people who leave (I know this varies state-by-state but at least in CA I got paid out at previous jobs).
2. There's no tangibility to your vacation. You're just given access to this nebulous thing and it is up to you and the company to define a culture and a policy for it, and most of the time they don't do it well. People end up coming up with a "virtual bank" in their heads to justify taking time off and keeping track of things. This leads to totally different value systems between individuals, teams, managers, etc. All of a sudden a number I could look at in my payroll software and was inarguably whatever integer it was to anyone who looked at it is now some weird "idea" that my boss and I have to agree upon, potentially every time I go and take time off. This leads to unfair application of policies across a business, because every employee and manager is different.
3. In an unlimited system, the value of 1 day and 1 week has to be self-assigned by me or my manager, since with "unlimited" the value of any individual day is by definition basically zero. I think this leads people to see their time off as less valuable and are more likely to come online to check an email or respond to a slack. At my current company we have an unlimited PTO policy, but they found people weren't actually "off" when they said they were, so we now have one day a month that is dedicated as a company holiday so that everyone is off at the same time. It's usually used for creating a 3 day weekend, or extending a federal holiday.
Overall, I hope the policies continue despite my cynicism, but only with more guardrails. I hope that companies have better policies in the future encouraging employees to take time off. I would like to see companies do more "full shutdown" days like mine currently does. It's a forcing function that benefits everyone.
1. At its core, I believe it's a clever bit of financial engineering disguised as a worker-first policy. All of a sudden your startup doesn't have any accrued PTO to keep on the books, and doesn't have to pay out anything to people who leave (I know this varies state-by-state but at least in CA I got paid out at previous jobs).
2. There's no tangibility to your vacation. You're just given access to this nebulous thing and it is up to you and the company to define a culture and a policy for it, and most of the time they don't do it well. People end up coming up with a "virtual bank" in their heads to justify taking time off and keeping track of things. This leads to totally different value systems between individuals, teams, managers, etc. All of a sudden a number I could look at in my payroll software and was inarguably whatever integer it was to anyone who looked at it is now some weird "idea" that my boss and I have to agree upon, potentially every time I go and take time off. This leads to unfair application of policies across a business, because every employee and manager is different.
3. In an unlimited system, the value of 1 day and 1 week has to be self-assigned by me or my manager, since with "unlimited" the value of any individual day is by definition basically zero. I think this leads people to see their time off as less valuable and are more likely to come online to check an email or respond to a slack. At my current company we have an unlimited PTO policy, but they found people weren't actually "off" when they said they were, so we now have one day a month that is dedicated as a company holiday so that everyone is off at the same time. It's usually used for creating a 3 day weekend, or extending a federal holiday.
Overall, I hope the policies continue despite my cynicism, but only with more guardrails. I hope that companies have better policies in the future encouraging employees to take time off. I would like to see companies do more "full shutdown" days like mine currently does. It's a forcing function that benefits everyone.
"Unlimited vacation" is a deception.
I see this being repeated over and over but I can't help but think that it's become a way to discourage giving employees time off from a company's perspective. I've successfully taken 30+ days off in an unlimited vacation environment (not consecutively) and not been reprimanded in any way because I was able to operate responsibly. Before I left for any length of vacation, I made sure that projects were delivered and successfully launched weeks before hand and I created documentation and trained others on continuing work processes (the lack of my presences should not have ANY impact).
"Unlimited vacation" should be a work perk that is attractive. Often times I find that it's the managers who don't believe employees should be given time off or the company decides to just implement unlimited vacation without any process in place to revoke the privilege or guidelines as to what a responsible policy looks like. It's easy to say something doesn't work when there was never any intention or effort to make it work.
Just my 2 cents.
I see this being repeated over and over but I can't help but think that it's become a way to discourage giving employees time off from a company's perspective. I've successfully taken 30+ days off in an unlimited vacation environment (not consecutively) and not been reprimanded in any way because I was able to operate responsibly. Before I left for any length of vacation, I made sure that projects were delivered and successfully launched weeks before hand and I created documentation and trained others on continuing work processes (the lack of my presences should not have ANY impact).
"Unlimited vacation" should be a work perk that is attractive. Often times I find that it's the managers who don't believe employees should be given time off or the company decides to just implement unlimited vacation without any process in place to revoke the privilege or guidelines as to what a responsible policy looks like. It's easy to say something doesn't work when there was never any intention or effort to make it work.
Just my 2 cents.
I had a fairly long conversation last year with someone who is a manager at a well-known "unlimited vacation" company. His take was that it works well but that's because there's clear leading by example from the top.
(It's also not necessarily a great system in general if you're someone who moves between jobs a lot as there's no unused vacation payout under such a system.)
(It's also not necessarily a great system in general if you're someone who moves between jobs a lot as there's no unused vacation payout under such a system.)
Sure, I’ve heard that and can believe it. I think one of the side effects of the term is that it kind of gets rid of the shame and social gymnastics around taking time off.
Believe it or not, many people for many years had to come up with some sort of excuse to work remote (have to pick up the kids, waiting for plumber/delivery, etc), so normalizing remote, even nominally, would be a good step forward.
Of course a global pandemic helps move the agenda too.
Believe it or not, many people for many years had to come up with some sort of excuse to work remote (have to pick up the kids, waiting for plumber/delivery, etc), so normalizing remote, even nominally, would be a good step forward.
Of course a global pandemic helps move the agenda too.
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There are a bunch of companies that technically have that, but you are pressured to work in the office and working from home more than once a month is looked down upon. I have noticed though that if you use kids as an excuse (valid or not) you're given much more leeway, and can get away with maybe 2-3 times per month without an negative social stigma.
I think it needs to be a culture change.
I think it needs to be a culture change.
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Considering how Japanese companies are famously conservative, I can't help but wonder if Fujitsu executives were faced with undeniable evidence that productivity increased during the pandemic WFH
Finally someone had the brains to do it! Beautiful.. if they pay for the use of space and resources at home
Another side often missing in these dicussions is that Japan's tax laws are relatively sane and are the same through all states. You will not be taxed differently just because you're living in a different state or are living between states.
There are some issues regarding where your residence tax should be paid to but those are minor compared to what I've read on here about crossing state lines in the US.
There are some issues regarding where your residence tax should be paid to but those are minor compared to what I've read on here about crossing state lines in the US.
> The company also said the programme would allow staff to choose where they worked, whether that was from home, a major corporate hub or a satellite office.
Culture cannot change quickly. I expect only a few Fujitsu employees will work from home. Most will continue to waste countless hours sitting at a desk to "demonstrate commitment to the company." It won't matter that the desk is in a satellite office. Male managers will require their female subordinates to work from the same satellite office with them. Only determined top leadership can change a Japanese company's time-wasting sexist culture. I doubt Fujitsu will succeed before the pandemic ends.
Culture cannot change quickly. I expect only a few Fujitsu employees will work from home. Most will continue to waste countless hours sitting at a desk to "demonstrate commitment to the company." It won't matter that the desk is in a satellite office. Male managers will require their female subordinates to work from the same satellite office with them. Only determined top leadership can change a Japanese company's time-wasting sexist culture. I doubt Fujitsu will succeed before the pandemic ends.
But if software engineers can work from home, they surely can work from Mumbai?
If they speak japanese and are happy to adjust their working day to the japanese timezone I can't see why not.
Is productivity going up, or are workers more happy, or both?
Costs, which can very easily be measured, probably went down.
A company like Fujitsu already has offices in nearly every time zone. The average meeting there already has people who are joining remotely. Teams already have to coordinate and managers already have to manage on the other side of the world. Letting people join their daily standup WebEx from home instead of whatever office they usually go to doesn't really have much impact on that workflow (especially since ~20% of the company already does that on any given Friday).
What WFH it does have is an immediate and direct impact on is cost.
If you're in management and you see that cost reduction in the numbers, productivity appears unaffected, morale appears unaffected (and some people even say it's improved) can you justify to your superiors not continuing to give people the option to WFH where possible?
A company like Fujitsu already has offices in nearly every time zone. The average meeting there already has people who are joining remotely. Teams already have to coordinate and managers already have to manage on the other side of the world. Letting people join their daily standup WebEx from home instead of whatever office they usually go to doesn't really have much impact on that workflow (especially since ~20% of the company already does that on any given Friday).
What WFH it does have is an immediate and direct impact on is cost.
If you're in management and you see that cost reduction in the numbers, productivity appears unaffected, morale appears unaffected (and some people even say it's improved) can you justify to your superiors not continuing to give people the option to WFH where possible?
I think it depends on the company and on the team.
In my company, my productivity skyrocketed, while that of my work colleagues crashed. It largely correlated with things like tech literacy and being open to change. Where I work, there are a few people with who invested in nice WFH setups, work-life integration, and all the things needed to make this work, who found productivity going up. And then there is the majority of people who stubbornly still refuse to even use a headset or learn to use tech, and are just waiting for the office to reopen.
Outside my company, it's not quite the same split, but most people are dipping their toes in rather than diving headfirst.
In my company, my productivity skyrocketed, while that of my work colleagues crashed. It largely correlated with things like tech literacy and being open to change. Where I work, there are a few people with who invested in nice WFH setups, work-life integration, and all the things needed to make this work, who found productivity going up. And then there is the majority of people who stubbornly still refuse to even use a headset or learn to use tech, and are just waiting for the office to reopen.
Outside my company, it's not quite the same split, but most people are dipping their toes in rather than diving headfirst.
> It largely correlated with things like tech literacy and being open to change
Honestly, this is a very patronising view. I understand that a lot of people here are strong permanent WFH advocates, but it doesn't fit everyone.
My home setup is pretty good and I'll still be first in line for getting back to the office for a variety of reasons - and there's many others like me.
If you think that means I'm less "tech literate" and not as "open to change" then that's your perogative.
Honestly, this is a very patronising view. I understand that a lot of people here are strong permanent WFH advocates, but it doesn't fit everyone.
My home setup is pretty good and I'll still be first in line for getting back to the office for a variety of reasons - and there's many others like me.
If you think that means I'm less "tech literate" and not as "open to change" then that's your perogative.
I agree. I fundamentally don't enjoy working in my home. Making the best of it while I can, and my productivity is fine, but it's taxing. I worked for a year and a half remotely a few years prior to the pandemic, and decided I did not enjoy it.
I don't think that makes me resistant to change - I just consider it a change for the worse.
I don't think that makes me resistant to change - I just consider it a change for the worse.
I wonder how much of the pain of today’s impromptu WFH is that there literally isn’t much else available to bring joy and distraction. Am I working more because there isn’t a good separation between work and home or because everything fun is closed?
Even with working more and having a fairly short commute (20-25min ea way), I find I have a lot more time for (solo) hobbies and tinkering. Losing 4 hours a week to commuting and probably another extra 3 to lunch (over quick lunches at home whenever I want) adds up pretty quickly.
I expected to hate WFH, but I like it a surprisingly large amount.
Even with working more and having a fairly short commute (20-25min ea way), I find I have a lot more time for (solo) hobbies and tinkering. Losing 4 hours a week to commuting and probably another extra 3 to lunch (over quick lunches at home whenever I want) adds up pretty quickly.
I expected to hate WFH, but I like it a surprisingly large amount.
It's totally reasonable that some people prefer a hard separation between home and work, as well as the social aspect of an office. Although, at many work places, I expect the latter is going to be much diminished for a very long time if not forever at many company offices as many employees shift to remote either entirely or for a significant portion of the time.
I would have thought a big part would be people like me who like a good separation between work and home life. When I'm at work I work, when I'm home I don't want to think about work.
> It largely correlated with things like tech literacy and being open to change
Don’t overlook the stress of living during a pandemic. Has absolutely ruined my productivity during WFH.
Don’t overlook the stress of living during a pandemic. Has absolutely ruined my productivity during WFH.
My wife's company is kind of curious, and also typical, I think. She works in production planning and SCM, so obviously the early phase of the Covid-19 crisis was the one with the highest workload. It was also the first time they were allowed to WFH. One would have expected that it would be very difficult. It was, for a week or so until people got to understand Teams.
Now, that things calmed down and they started "Kurzarbeit", basically reducing working hours where the state offsets salaries, the company insists that everyone returns to the office. Old ways die hard it seems.
Now, that things calmed down and they started "Kurzarbeit", basically reducing working hours where the state offsets salaries, the company insists that everyone returns to the office. Old ways die hard it seems.
I'm curious, what all do you include when you think about a "nice WFH setup"? For me it's largely a defined space, a nice desk, a nice chair, and a nice monitor. Anything else on your list?
High quality microphone and headphones so you dont echo. I already bought a Blue Yeti microphone ages ago but it works wonders when I have to hop on a call.
As for nice chair depending on your employer I would ask for the one from your job if its sufficient. I was able to take mine home. Its just gonna collect dust otherwise.
As for nice chair depending on your employer I would ask for the one from your job if its sufficient. I was able to take mine home. Its just gonna collect dust otherwise.
My UK employer has closed the office and tried to sell us our own redundant desk chairs...
That is awful, my employer actually gave out some of our "old" desk chairs, so I took one with an arm missing, I don't use the arm rest, so I took out the spare arm, otherwise if I had asked for my actual desk chair I'm sure they would of given it to me to use. We're technically allowed in the office due to the type of work we do (defense contracts) but mostly work remote, I have only heard of a few people going to the office for anything they need. It's sad when companies don't treat you like adults.
A defined ergonomically equipped workspace that isn't in the way of other day-to-day living (with or without a door depending upon who else is regularly in the space day-to-day) and a good audio-video setup for video calls and other video recording. Even though in practice I often work elsewhere in my house on a laptop for various reasons, it's important to me to have an office.
And, as others have said, childcare and other arrangements to allow you to work without distraction.
And, as others have said, childcare and other arrangements to allow you to work without distraction.
Childcare arrangements.
> Is productivity going up
It is going to be hard to get good data on this, since so many people are not just working from home but are also caring for children or stress out of their minds due to a pandemic.
From talking to people, it seems that senior engineers are doing well and junior engineers have lower output. I think this is reasonable. People who need more hand holding will have more friction separating them from help. People who already have a strong background have fewer distractions and can focus deeply on code. Whether this sums to an overall positive or negative change in productivity, I have no idea.
It is going to be hard to get good data on this, since so many people are not just working from home but are also caring for children or stress out of their minds due to a pandemic.
From talking to people, it seems that senior engineers are doing well and junior engineers have lower output. I think this is reasonable. People who need more hand holding will have more friction separating them from help. People who already have a strong background have fewer distractions and can focus deeply on code. Whether this sums to an overall positive or negative change in productivity, I have no idea.
Even software service companies have started to go full remote. WFH is the future.
"Even"? softare dev is one of the easiests things to do remotely
"Even" because the comment is about software service companies (as opposed to software product ones).
In service companies keeping or accounting time (so that clients can be billed) is a thing.
When working from home, keeping account of time spent may be a challenge. As long as one is in office, even though they may not be clacking away on a keyboard (but goofing away) they can be billed without any guilt and if the service company is really questioned or audited, they can show employee swipe in and out time.
For WFH employees one cannot, also just tracking login maynot cover full story (Ex. tele calls would not be accounted for).
In service companies keeping or accounting time (so that clients can be billed) is a thing.
When working from home, keeping account of time spent may be a challenge. As long as one is in office, even though they may not be clacking away on a keyboard (but goofing away) they can be billed without any guilt and if the service company is really questioned or audited, they can show employee swipe in and out time.
For WFH employees one cannot, also just tracking login maynot cover full story (Ex. tele calls would not be accounted for).
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Thats really good. I wonder how UK companies will respond.
Sample size of one, but my employer have significantly shifted their view of remote work from being something that's only really accepted in extreme circumstances (or in some cases such as my own, grandfathered in from the early days). All our offices are currently closed with everyone working remotely, and have been since late February, but even once they reopen its already been stated that they expect the new normality to be most people working remotely 2-3 days a week.
I suspect that shift has mostly come out of the fact they couldn't really play the usual management cards of "collaboration will suffer", or "its harder to manage people remotely" after multiple months of nobody at all being in the office and work continuing more or less as normal. My fear going into this is that it would be the nail in the coffin of remote work, with companies going into it unprepared and everything falling apart for an extended period - at least in our case the transition took all of a week or so before everyone got used to it, and if anything productivity is higher than it was with everyone working out of the office.
I suspect that shift has mostly come out of the fact they couldn't really play the usual management cards of "collaboration will suffer", or "its harder to manage people remotely" after multiple months of nobody at all being in the office and work continuing more or less as normal. My fear going into this is that it would be the nail in the coffin of remote work, with companies going into it unprepared and everything falling apart for an extended period - at least in our case the transition took all of a week or so before everyone got used to it, and if anything productivity is higher than it was with everyone working out of the office.
You said it, "more or less".
They largely won't unless forced to.
Management in the UK by and large sucks.
Management in the UK by and large sucks.
> Management in the UK by and large sucks.
I don't necessarily disagree but I have to say that it's miles worse in Spain.
I might've been lucky but I've only had a bad boss and even he treated me far better than the best bosses some of my friends in Spain had treated them, so clearly YMMV. (obviously anecdotal evidence)
I don't necessarily disagree but I have to say that it's miles worse in Spain.
I might've been lucky but I've only had a bad boss and even he treated me far better than the best bosses some of my friends in Spain had treated them, so clearly YMMV. (obviously anecdotal evidence)
I always wonder how people come up with these statements, is it just anecdotal?
To add my own, my company was shifting to working remotely for the development team gradually, but now our CEO has been impressed with how well we adapted to working from home and has told us that our office will not be open until September at the earliest.
To add my own, my company was shifting to working remotely for the development team gradually, but now our CEO has been impressed with how well we adapted to working from home and has told us that our office will not be open until September at the earliest.
From CEO perspective they shift all accommodation [overhead] costs to employees with no increase in wages. Even with slightly lower productivity then financially surely wfh for dev roles and the like is going to get them a bigger bonus and/or more profit.
Sure it might just be cleaning/utility costs/stationary for now, but longer term expansion won't have stepped accommodation costs. And if locations can be done away with ...
I can't see why workers would be happy without higher wages? I want at least to afford a house big enough to have an office space (I'm working out of my bedroom, my line-manager is in their kids bedroom, their line-manager is in a utility room (storage and laundry room)). 5-10% increase in wages should do it.
Sure it might just be cleaning/utility costs/stationary for now, but longer term expansion won't have stepped accommodation costs. And if locations can be done away with ...
I can't see why workers would be happy without higher wages? I want at least to afford a house big enough to have an office space (I'm working out of my bedroom, my line-manager is in their kids bedroom, their line-manager is in a utility room (storage and laundry room)). 5-10% increase in wages should do it.
I completely understand this, but I've seen more people complain that their company (in the UK mostly) is not letting them work from home, or did and are now demanding that people go back into the office.
I personally agree with you, we should be paid more now that we're not commuting but I doubt that will happen. Our company are organising a one-off payment to help people set up their home office though, which is a nice gesture.
I personally agree with you, we should be paid more now that we're not commuting but I doubt that will happen. Our company are organising a one-off payment to help people set up their home office though, which is a nice gesture.
I wouldn't count on it. The aversion to WFH always seemed to be the risk, but now they've already been forced into it and mostly handled it quite well, the unknown isn't unknown any more.
> The aversion to WFH always seemed to be the risk
I always thought it was the loss of perceived control
A little bit idiotic, if you ask me, as people can and do little in the office too if they are so inclined but there you go
I always thought it was the loss of perceived control
A little bit idiotic, if you ask me, as people can and do little in the office too if they are so inclined but there you go
UK companies will broadly respond the same way.
WFH is now more normalised and sensible companies will adopt it ASAP as the standard. Laggards will begrudgingly have to adopt it as otherwise they will lose talent and restrict their access to new talent.
WFH is now more normalised and sensible companies will adopt it ASAP as the standard. Laggards will begrudgingly have to adopt it as otherwise they will lose talent and restrict their access to new talent.
Unless it's full of younger management, it'll be bums on seats forever.
All companies remote work policies: remote.lifeshack.io
Covid might actually result in permanent changes. Sucks for a lot of commercial real estate companies. WeWork is probably 100% done
I also wonder the impact it'll have on retail and lunch places. A lot of small restaurants popped up around places with a lot of office workers. If those office workers are all WFH now, the previously desirable restaurant locations will become semi-worthless.
On top of that, my guess is that WFH people will go out for lunch less often, so those restaurants won't just relocate to more residential areas, they (and their jobs), will just disappear.
On top of that, my guess is that WFH people will go out for lunch less often, so those restaurants won't just relocate to more residential areas, they (and their jobs), will just disappear.
The restaurant owners who really want to make it work will hustle into delivery out of more affordable commercial kitchen space. If WFH sticks I won’t be surprised to see more commercial kitchens opening closer to residential areas.
This could be nice. Often observed restaurants struggling around residential areas. WFH could help support more heterogeneous zoning, which would also reduce needing to own a car or use public transit
OTOH, isn't it pretty customary for any large office (let's say 1k+) to have a cafeteria, with presumably most employees eating there?
Some of these will not want to cook lunch in the middle of work, and at least order takeout instead.
Some of these will not want to cook lunch in the middle of work, and at least order takeout instead.
> with presumably most employees eating there
I think this is a pretty big/new tech specific thing, and there are still exemptions. Of the large non-tech companies in NYC, I know a few banks have cafeterias, but the food is both not free and not good
I think this is a pretty big/new tech specific thing, and there are still exemptions. Of the large non-tech companies in NYC, I know a few banks have cafeterias, but the food is both not free and not good
In Japan, it’s far more common, even for much smaller companies. There’s a great Japanese TV show that does mini documentaries on these places (and others where workers eat) called, “Sara Meshi” (サラメシ)
https://www.nhk.jp/p/salameshi/ts/PVPP6PZNLG/
https://www.nhk.jp/p/salameshi/ts/PVPP6PZNLG/
The cafes being free and good is probably a big tech thing, but cafeterias (paid, and... well, cafeteria-grade) certainly aren't uncommon in Germany. If your company doesn't have one, chances are they have a deal with another company in the same building/complex that does.
Making a sandwich or soup for lunch is not a big deal. And probably the vast majority of urban offices do not have cafeterias and people go out to eat (if they didn't bring something from home).
Yes, this is quite likely, but this is a titanic shift in the real estate market. Previously, you wanted a flashy storefront to attract customers so you put your kitchen in a fancy area. Now, you just need a kitchen on a back alley where delivery drivers can easily pull in to pick up their orders.
I actually think it might cause a more efficient use of space overall. Lots of strip malls and even regular malls around the country are going to be converted into housing. If almost everybody does almost everything through delivery, there's no need to spend the money on prime real estate and extensive signage, which is very expensive.
I actually think it might cause a more efficient use of space overall. Lots of strip malls and even regular malls around the country are going to be converted into housing. If almost everybody does almost everything through delivery, there's no need to spend the money on prime real estate and extensive signage, which is very expensive.
>Lots of strip malls and even regular malls around the country are going to be converted into housing
Unlikely. Most "dead malls" are in suburban and rural locations, often depressed. Maybe there will be some housing development in the acreage but they're mostly in areas where land is relatively plentiful and cheap. Dying malls aren't going to open up prime real estate because retail in prime real estate is mostly still doing pretty well.
Unlikely. Most "dead malls" are in suburban and rural locations, often depressed. Maybe there will be some housing development in the acreage but they're mostly in areas where land is relatively plentiful and cheap. Dying malls aren't going to open up prime real estate because retail in prime real estate is mostly still doing pretty well.
It's not as common as you might think nor is it always free or affordable.
In NYC, the Sweetgreen/Dig Inn/etc. type places in areas with offices are packed from 12pm to 3pm every weekday. It's a huge market for them.
In NYC, the Sweetgreen/Dig Inn/etc. type places in areas with offices are packed from 12pm to 3pm every weekday. It's a huge market for them.
That's a different market.
If 10% of the people keep WFH after the pandemics, that means real state prices will plummet. But restaurants will see a 10% decrease on revenue.
If 10% of the people keep WFH after the pandemics, that means real state prices will plummet. But restaurants will see a 10% decrease on revenue.
Would it be those ones that suffer? If some existing companies depart a central area, isn't it more likely that others would replace them in that area, rather than a geographically uniform reduction in occupancy?
Might be a chance for diners or other restaurants to offer meeting rooms. They could charge less than coworking spaces and make up the difference in food and drink sales.
Sucks for the worker who now has to bear the cost of providing office space and internet connections and your local network.
Also longer term a lot of housing stock will become les desirable and new residential housing will become bigger and more expensive.
Oh and H&S inspections will now have to be included
Also longer term a lot of housing stock will become les desirable and new residential housing will become bigger and more expensive.
Oh and H&S inspections will now have to be included
For existing companies like Mozilla where we are mostly remote anyway, the company already reimburses home internet and office equipment like chairs and monitors and desks.
Also, Mozilla will reimburse space in the form of a coworking lease in the worker's city. (Edit: Who knows if this will continue after Coronavirus) I don't think there's any kind of benefit for the costs incurred by the increased use of home space, but I do think there should be.
Mozilla did an ergonomic inspection on my workspace at my request when I still worked in an office. I haven't had one on my home office, but I do agree that companies should pay for ergonomic assessments of home offices.
I do agree that as more traditional companies switch over, they may not be so generous with their reimbursement since one of the biggest benefits for them is cost reduction. They can silently move all the costs of working space onto employees. And I do think this will result in people seeking larger living spaces in general as well, unfortunately for energy efficiency.
Also, Mozilla will reimburse space in the form of a coworking lease in the worker's city. (Edit: Who knows if this will continue after Coronavirus) I don't think there's any kind of benefit for the costs incurred by the increased use of home space, but I do think there should be.
Mozilla did an ergonomic inspection on my workspace at my request when I still worked in an office. I haven't had one on my home office, but I do agree that companies should pay for ergonomic assessments of home offices.
I do agree that as more traditional companies switch over, they may not be so generous with their reimbursement since one of the biggest benefits for them is cost reduction. They can silently move all the costs of working space onto employees. And I do think this will result in people seeking larger living spaces in general as well, unfortunately for energy efficiency.
On the other hand, it's probably boosted the value of more remote homes in otherwise desireable areas that have previously suffered for local employment opportunities.
In the UK that might include beautiful countryside in places like Wales and Cornwall, or larger houses available in the North.
Assuming the internet is fast enough!
In the UK that might include beautiful countryside in places like Wales and Cornwall, or larger houses available in the North.
Assuming the internet is fast enough!
I would happily provide that cost since I pay for all of that anyway to work from home.
Dragging my arse into an open office during a pandemic has killed my motivation completely.
I've gone from hard working to doing just enough not to get fired while I look for another job.
Dragging my arse into an open office during a pandemic has killed my motivation completely.
I've gone from hard working to doing just enough not to get fired while I look for another job.
For most people I suspect they come out on top even with the extra expense of needing a decent internet connection and some office space. Commuting (particularly into London, which is what I'm most familiar with) is expensive - I'm a 1.5 hour train ride out from London, and an annual season ticket costs £6,000-£7,000 per year, depending on the route and whether I want a travelcard for London as well.
There's a subset of people who can normally walk or bike to their office and are now faced with either moving into a larger apartment or renting a co-working space--which I don't expect to be typically reimbursed. But most people commuting in from or around the suburbs can probably make the space at home work and are saving double-digit dollars per day.
Probably make space very unlikely the average person is not going to have a spare room to fit a desk with a double monitor.
And if its a couple or a shared house even worse - probably increase the divorce rate for couples both WFH
And if its a couple or a shared house even worse - probably increase the divorce rate for couples both WFH
Yes but you will get a pay cut its not like they are going to pay London /SF wages in the country.
Maybe, although I’m currently being paid top end London wages in the country. A lot will depend on supply and demand, what salaries people are willing to accept, and what more openness to remote employees does to the candidate pool.
And exactly why should I as an employee fund this (and increased property taxes) for my employer?
That's amazing. The annual pass for all of Switzerland is only around £3,500.
I have never heard of a health and safety inspection for a home office. I'm quite sure mine would fail in multiple counts.
But, yes, a small urban apartment is not going to be great for working from home. Especially without coffeeshops etc. open. Longer term, people who WFH indefinitely will either need to move to larger places or they'll want a co-working space that either they or their company pays for.
But, yes, a small urban apartment is not going to be great for working from home. Especially without coffeeshops etc. open. Longer term, people who WFH indefinitely will either need to move to larger places or they'll want a co-working space that either they or their company pays for.
Its the law in the UK and from what others have said the USA as well
Pretty much everyone I work with in the US worked from home at least some of the time even before this. I'd place a sizable bet that not one of them has ever had an OSHA inspector come to check out their home workplace.
I think if its the odd day you might getaway with it - but when your workplace is formally defined as your home it might be very different. I suspect it for the USA it will be the medical insurers that will insist on it.
I was curious if there actually was a technical requirement that no one followed in practice. But no. Home offices are explicitly out of scope--although there may be some reactive oversight for other home-based worksite activities.
Policy for Home Offices.
OSHA will not conduct inspections of employees' home offices.
OSHA will not hold employers liable for employees' home offices, and does not expect employers to inspect the home offices of their employees.
If OSHA receives a complaint about a home office, the complainant will be advised of OSHA's policy. If an employee makes a specific request, OSHA may informally let employers know of complaints about home office conditions, but will not follow-up with the employer or employee.
https://www.osha.gov/enforcement/directives/cpl-02-00-125#po...
Policy for Home Offices.
OSHA will not conduct inspections of employees' home offices.
OSHA will not hold employers liable for employees' home offices, and does not expect employers to inspect the home offices of their employees.
If OSHA receives a complaint about a home office, the complainant will be advised of OSHA's policy. If an employee makes a specific request, OSHA may informally let employers know of complaints about home office conditions, but will not follow-up with the employer or employee.
https://www.osha.gov/enforcement/directives/cpl-02-00-125#po...
> WeWork is probably 100% done
WeWork specifically was failing anyway, but it strikes me that in a world where permanent workplaces are deemphasized and workers are inherently more mobile, the market for a broker of temporary spaces is probably larger, not smaller.
WeWork specifically was failing anyway, but it strikes me that in a world where permanent workplaces are deemphasized and workers are inherently more mobile, the market for a broker of temporary spaces is probably larger, not smaller.
For at least some who want to live in a city and are WFH full-time, it will make more sense to rent a co-working space than to move to a bigger apartment with a dedicated office.
And I think there's a currently underserved niche of single/DINK people who would enjoy the freedom of remote work but don't want to spend the working day socially isolated.
I'm not sure how underserved it is. I suspect that a lot of people just don't want to pay for a co-working space out of their own pockets and would normally content themselves with going to coffeeshops, etc. to get out of their apartments.
Added: And people can make do with situations for a limited length of time whether working from their kitchen table or suffering through a 90 minute commute that aren't necessarily sustainable long-term.
Added: And people can make do with situations for a limited length of time whether working from their kitchen table or suffering through a 90 minute commute that aren't necessarily sustainable long-term.
Maybe there is some in between? Personally, I like the idea of the cafe as a local work space I can walk to from my apartment, but would love it if there was some guarantee of having a desk and niceties like a monitor or print/copy/fax/ship. I would pay some membership dues for a coop space like this.
people dont want to pay 2 rents for no reason though, unless the rents are very cheap, so they won't be able to price these things high anymore. probably
Rents for this would be work from home space would have to be modest. Gym membership rates would probably most fair. The equinox priced areas will be painted smoke grey with dark wood desks, and be stocked with instacup coffee. The snap fitness type place will be like your high school library, and will be good enough for me if I have a few square feet of desk and a monitor.
Here in Tokyo, I actually feel the opposite. WeWorks are quite busy again, but then again we didn't get hit as hard as the west.
If I were a company with 100 employees, I'd get 50~ hotdesk spaces at my local coworking space chain and let employees come in up to 3 days a week whenever they feel like it.
If I were a company with 100 employees, I'd get 50~ hotdesk spaces at my local coworking space chain and let employees come in up to 3 days a week whenever they feel like it.
Employees HATE hot desking - you'd also have to disinfect / clean much more rigorously similar to hospital standards.
There are other reasons to dislike hot desking but COVID doesn't seem to be one of them: surface transmission is low risk, disinfecting a desk is easy and can be done by staff overnight, ...
OH yes but it would have to be done properly between uses and regular office cleaning would now have to be more rigours and costly than it is now.
Probably closer to how a low risk hospital ward is cleaned than the perfunctory wipe - you might also have to use those sealed keyboards designed so they can be cleaned.
Probably closer to how a low risk hospital ward is cleaned than the perfunctory wipe - you might also have to use those sealed keyboards designed so they can be cleaned.
And that's quite surprising to hear. I also live in Tokyo, but given how packed Chuo line/Shinjuku station in the morning for the past few weeks, it feels like everyone has already gone back to their regular office hours routine. :(
It certainly feels like that huh? I’m thankfully still working from home, but we haven’t had a permanent work from home announcement yet.
Many people from our company prefers working from home as well, so I'm waiting to see how our HR reacts (we already have a 3 days WFH policy in place, but many people now kinda wish they could do permanent). However a large enterprise I'm working with already asked everyone to go back to office, in addition to never issuing WFH for their non-Tokyo office in the first place, which is kinda shame, because I wish they would be adopting with the "new normal", but instead they just go back to normal...
In the sense its cheaper to outsource than having your own permanent offices? That's possible but major companies would probably have them meet/come at existing offices on alternate days.
Commercial leases also tend to be fairly long-term. So a lot of companies are in the situation where they want to use their existing space in a way that's appropriate for the current situation. Which may be different from what they'd do if they were starting from a clean slate.
Wework was a parasite, it was done whenever landlords figured out they can just deal directly with the tenant and both would save an expense.
However, there might be promise for a sort of coop remote work environment, not necessarily tied to your company, but shared by your neighbors. For instance, I would love to have a work station in the neighborhood, in walking distance to my apartment. I only need a desk, a monitor, decent internet connection, but things like having a more secure shipping address and print/copy/fax/package dropoff would be great perks. I would gladly pay a membership fee for a small, hyperlocal, neighborhood-based incarnation of wework, where I would be guaranteed to have a desk whenever I choose to walk the block or two and get some work done. Basically, the local cafe, but I always have a seat, a monitor, and basic fedex functions.
However, there might be promise for a sort of coop remote work environment, not necessarily tied to your company, but shared by your neighbors. For instance, I would love to have a work station in the neighborhood, in walking distance to my apartment. I only need a desk, a monitor, decent internet connection, but things like having a more secure shipping address and print/copy/fax/package dropoff would be great perks. I would gladly pay a membership fee for a small, hyperlocal, neighborhood-based incarnation of wework, where I would be guaranteed to have a desk whenever I choose to walk the block or two and get some work done. Basically, the local cafe, but I always have a seat, a monitor, and basic fedex functions.
Hey, you should add your company here: remote.lifeshack.io !
Japanese companies are generally extremely inefficient. Outside of a few powerhouses, partially thanks to a protected and large domestic market, Japanese labor practices are antiquated. There is a culture of overwork that begets a culture of inefficiency that boggles the mind. Few people know that Japan has a labor productivity lower than Italy, for example.
To give a concrete example, you will have companies where people will make sure to start meetings at 7 pm to make sure they can maximize "残業" (overtime). The labor ministry is trying to curb on companies that expect more than 80 hours of overtime per month. On top of it, if you live in one of the big city (Tokyo, Nagoya, Osaka), 3 hours of commute per day is not atypical. And then you have the practice of 飲み会 ("business dinners" where people drink, abuse toward women common, etc.), which also takes time.
Finally, Japanese companies rely a lot on paper and 判子 (hanko) and other seals systems. My wife sometimes has to go the desk of a colleague dozens of times a day to get some paperwork. IT systems are antiquated. And yet, Japan has one of the most educated workforce in the world. Especially women are often relegated to menial work. Internet is fast everywhere. It is the true steam punk country !
Coronavirus and WFH change this. Seeing large companies like fujitsu publicly taking a stance is highly significant in a country like Japan where executives are often extremely risk adverse.