1632 by Eric Flint (2000)(baen.com)
baen.com
1632 by Eric Flint (2000)
http://www.baen.com/chapters/0671578499/0671578499.htm
77 comments
Is there a 'main thread' through the books? I read the first book, but then, like the Honor Harrington series, it seems to split into more offshoots than I care to tackle.
1633, 1633, 1634: Baltic War, 1635: The Eastern Front, 1636: The Saxon Uprising, 1636: The Ottoman Onslaught, 1637: Polish Maelstrom
Although honestly I lost interest around the first 1636 book. For me the initial setup of the United States of Europe was interesting but I feel like as the books progressed they got fairly fast and loose with history and historical characters become one dimensional. The first three books were really good as historical fiction that is clearly trying to be entertaining while trying keep some connection to reality, fourth one was decent, and by the time Flint got to 1636 it was too far out of left field for me and I preferred to going back to just reading nonfiction history books.
Although honestly I lost interest around the first 1636 book. For me the initial setup of the United States of Europe was interesting but I feel like as the books progressed they got fairly fast and loose with history and historical characters become one dimensional. The first three books were really good as historical fiction that is clearly trying to be entertaining while trying keep some connection to reality, fourth one was decent, and by the time Flint got to 1636 it was too far out of left field for me and I preferred to going back to just reading nonfiction history books.
Thanks, I'll see how far I get. Would be nice if I could make it until the winged hussars arrive...
Don't know about this series in particular, but the Harrington series does have a "main thread", and is intentionally written† to not interdepend; the mainline sequence of books by Drake make some references to things happening in the other series, but the books don't expect/require you to have read those series (i.e. the books reintroduce any characters and events that happened in those series that are relevant to the current plot.)
† I find the logic of this series-splitting very interesting; David Drake seems to license out his setting for the creation of, essentially, fanfiction, but fanfiction where he sits in as creative consultant. So other authors create stories in his setting, and he declares them canon.
But, since those stories are not his stories — not created as part of his original series planning — the later novels in the mainline series aren't planned to take these side-sequences into account, but rather just have references to those side-sequences worked in in non-arc-damaging ways as the series allows. Almost like the characters and events from the ascended fanfic are "guest starring" in the main series, as a reward to the audience for reading those side-series and a semi "seal of quality" nod by Drake toward those series.
This isn't a practice I've ever seen anywhere else. The closest might be simultaneously-running TV dramas with different writing teams who lend one-another characters (and their actors) for crossovers, with each writing team acting as the creative consultant for how that character is written by the other team. But even then, there isn't a hierarchical relationship between the two teams, as both teams own their own setting. Also, this setup usually implies that the dramas to be owned by the same production studio.
What Drake does with his settings, is more like when franchise with a valuable IP licenses that IP out for the creation of "licensed" works in adjacent media, on the condition that they sit in as creative consultant for how their IP is being used. E.g. when some random game studio decides to make "a Spiderman game." Except in this case, the IP isn't all that valuable, just an inspiring setting for other authors; and the licensed works aren't in an adjacent medium, but rather also in the original medium, such that they almost "blend in" with the original works.
It's be as if Star Wars were primarily a novel series, but then the various Star Wars Extended Universe licensed novels were still a thing.
† I find the logic of this series-splitting very interesting; David Drake seems to license out his setting for the creation of, essentially, fanfiction, but fanfiction where he sits in as creative consultant. So other authors create stories in his setting, and he declares them canon.
But, since those stories are not his stories — not created as part of his original series planning — the later novels in the mainline series aren't planned to take these side-sequences into account, but rather just have references to those side-sequences worked in in non-arc-damaging ways as the series allows. Almost like the characters and events from the ascended fanfic are "guest starring" in the main series, as a reward to the audience for reading those side-series and a semi "seal of quality" nod by Drake toward those series.
This isn't a practice I've ever seen anywhere else. The closest might be simultaneously-running TV dramas with different writing teams who lend one-another characters (and their actors) for crossovers, with each writing team acting as the creative consultant for how that character is written by the other team. But even then, there isn't a hierarchical relationship between the two teams, as both teams own their own setting. Also, this setup usually implies that the dramas to be owned by the same production studio.
What Drake does with his settings, is more like when franchise with a valuable IP licenses that IP out for the creation of "licensed" works in adjacent media, on the condition that they sit in as creative consultant for how their IP is being used. E.g. when some random game studio decides to make "a Spiderman game." Except in this case, the IP isn't all that valuable, just an inspiring setting for other authors; and the licensed works aren't in an adjacent medium, but rather also in the original medium, such that they almost "blend in" with the original works.
It's be as if Star Wars were primarily a novel series, but then the various Star Wars Extended Universe licensed novels were still a thing.
I think you got your Davids confused. Honor Harrington series are written by a David Weber.
This book is definitely an example where judging a book by its cover leads to very wrong conclusions. The cover looks silly and implies amateurly written dreck. But it's actually very well written. Interesting premise and gripping plot with compelling characters. Even a few surprises. It's a great book and one of the best of the genre, IMO. I highly recommend reading it.
Looking forward to reading it.
My family on both sides come from West Virginia, and interestingly, all of Appalachia was settled by people fleeing the various religious wars in Europe in that time. Specifically, Appalachia was settled mostly by refugees from Ulster (primarily the Scots-Irish Presbyterians and other non-Anglican protestants who found themselves isolated in northern Ireland) and a smaller percentage of the settlers were Protestants fleeing the aftermath of the 30 years war in Germany. My family's ancestry reflects this.
The echoes of those wars still carry on in the culture there. What was then known as Presbyterian (virtually zero relation to the current Presbyterian faith, and far more in line with evangelical Christians today) at the time shaped the culture to be hugely antagonistic to all forms of central authority. The Scots-Irish were particularly antagonistic to the British monarchy due to them being used to secure northern Ireland, and then in decades following being isolated from society due to laws treating non-Anglicans as second class citizens. The part of history I want to learn far more about is the 30 years war in Germany. My lack of knowledge on this subject was particularly embarrassing when I last went to Prague and was looking at the former seat of power for the Holy Roman Empire (one of many, since the capital shifted over the years to various cities). I had very little historical context for that part of Europe, which was frustrating.
My family on both sides come from West Virginia, and interestingly, all of Appalachia was settled by people fleeing the various religious wars in Europe in that time. Specifically, Appalachia was settled mostly by refugees from Ulster (primarily the Scots-Irish Presbyterians and other non-Anglican protestants who found themselves isolated in northern Ireland) and a smaller percentage of the settlers were Protestants fleeing the aftermath of the 30 years war in Germany. My family's ancestry reflects this.
The echoes of those wars still carry on in the culture there. What was then known as Presbyterian (virtually zero relation to the current Presbyterian faith, and far more in line with evangelical Christians today) at the time shaped the culture to be hugely antagonistic to all forms of central authority. The Scots-Irish were particularly antagonistic to the British monarchy due to them being used to secure northern Ireland, and then in decades following being isolated from society due to laws treating non-Anglicans as second class citizens. The part of history I want to learn far more about is the 30 years war in Germany. My lack of knowledge on this subject was particularly embarrassing when I last went to Prague and was looking at the former seat of power for the Holy Roman Empire (one of many, since the capital shifted over the years to various cities). I had very little historical context for that part of Europe, which was frustrating.
I think it is incorrect to describe the Scots-Irish as refugees. They mostly had some capital, didn't they? Also, I think that Albion' Seed suggested that the Scots-Irish emigration was much outnumbered by the entirely Scots emigration.
Appalachia was particularly favored amongst the Scots-Irish. Good point on the term "refugee". For the most part, they were certainly very poor, but I've never read Albion' Seed before. I have read a book that is considered an update on it, called Eleven Nations by Colin Woodward.
I am curious as to what percentage were out of Ulster vs. from the borderlands.
I am curious as to what percentage were out of Ulster vs. from the borderlands.
If I had never heard the phrase "Thirty years war" before reading the blurb, will I be able to appreciate it?
It was an enjoyable read for me back as a kid even though I knew little history. It's pretty strong on the wish fulfillment end of things. E.g. big bad ass Americans go back in time and are better than everyone else. That sort of thing can still be fun, though, if you need to relax.
I didn't even remember where the 30 years war was, and here I am recommending the series. The history is provided, you're not expected to know it.
This book is available in a bunch of e-book formats as a free download: https://www.baen.com/1632.html There’s also an updated version of the book one can buy on the same website.
Baen is a good source of science fiction and fantasy which, as often as not, has a conservative military slant to it. May not be everyone’s taste, but I also greatly enjoy reading Orson Scott Card who has a conservative (but not fundamentalist) religious slant to his stories.
Baen is a good source of science fiction and fantasy which, as often as not, has a conservative military slant to it. May not be everyone’s taste, but I also greatly enjoy reading Orson Scott Card who has a conservative (but not fundamentalist) religious slant to his stories.
Not passing any judgment on the books themselves, but that web page makes me want to run a mile.
“At that moment Freedom and Justice, American style, are introduced to the middle of The Thirty Years War.” It all feels a little too like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court but not written as a burlesque.
“At that moment Freedom and Justice, American style, are introduced to the middle of The Thirty Years War.” It all feels a little too like A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court but not written as a burlesque.
For most fans of the series this is a feature, not a bug.
There is a lot of desperate demand for the simple acknowledgment that America got a lot of things right, and had a deep commitment to doing better.
The books have some lengthy subplots exploring our nations sins, and dark parts. But the general framing is, "good people with good intent doing their best who fall short, get up and do their best again. And that is AWESOME!"
There is a lot of desperate demand for the simple acknowledgment that America got a lot of things right, and had a deep commitment to doing better.
The books have some lengthy subplots exploring our nations sins, and dark parts. But the general framing is, "good people with good intent doing their best who fall short, get up and do their best again. And that is AWESOME!"
I think “deep commitment” is rather debatable. We’ve moved in the right direction, generally, but only slowly and with far too much foot dragging. Remember, gay marriage was only legalized six years ago. Six!
And that’s just one example out of many.
And that’s just one example out of many.
Having read many of the books and short stories as a boy, I would rank them as 'entertainingly trashy'.
The Americans are a collection of unintentionally hilarious stereotypes - the rugged hero who saves the beautiful & brilliant damsel in distress and gets everybody swooning over him, the virgin nerd who suddenly gets appreciated by a strong girl, the badass teenager girl who shows all those prejudiced old fools how much ass a badass teenager girl can kick, oh yeah!
The 'native' characters are a bit better, because the author is constrained by historical records to make them slightly less cartoonish. Gustav Adolf (& related family) is the designated Good King but he's still an absolute king and occasionally a jerk as a result; Axel Oxenstierna and Richelieu get caricatured as villainous viziers but their reasons for opposing the New American Order do get at least a perfunctory acknowledgment. Non-historical 'native' characters are as two-dimensional as the Americans, though.
The reason I do not regret reading the series is that it scratches certain nerdy itches very very well. It's full of wikipedia-type fun facts that gets turned into plot points, like clothing dyes being a big deal, or customary laws of Early Modern Germany being an absolute clusterfuck, and of course all kinds of changing social mores from privacy in the presence of house servants to serving wine to children. It has funny nerd moments like Lennard Torstensson gawking over a micrometer, or when Richelieu is revealed to be the first leader smart enough to acquire a spoiler (a history book from the 'future') and take action over it, in that case refocusing away from costly European wars in order to consolidate control of the New World and set up France to become the dominant world empire in the timeline.
I think the short stories are probably the best part of the setting for an adult reader, because they have less focus on the sub-par characters and more focus on the fascinating peculiarities of the time and place. And while the History of kingdoms and religions got derailed pretty early in the series, making historical accuracy kind of a moot point, the little histories of craftsmen and traders get a chance to shine and be properly explored in the short stories.
The Americans are a collection of unintentionally hilarious stereotypes - the rugged hero who saves the beautiful & brilliant damsel in distress and gets everybody swooning over him, the virgin nerd who suddenly gets appreciated by a strong girl, the badass teenager girl who shows all those prejudiced old fools how much ass a badass teenager girl can kick, oh yeah!
The 'native' characters are a bit better, because the author is constrained by historical records to make them slightly less cartoonish. Gustav Adolf (& related family) is the designated Good King but he's still an absolute king and occasionally a jerk as a result; Axel Oxenstierna and Richelieu get caricatured as villainous viziers but their reasons for opposing the New American Order do get at least a perfunctory acknowledgment. Non-historical 'native' characters are as two-dimensional as the Americans, though.
The reason I do not regret reading the series is that it scratches certain nerdy itches very very well. It's full of wikipedia-type fun facts that gets turned into plot points, like clothing dyes being a big deal, or customary laws of Early Modern Germany being an absolute clusterfuck, and of course all kinds of changing social mores from privacy in the presence of house servants to serving wine to children. It has funny nerd moments like Lennard Torstensson gawking over a micrometer, or when Richelieu is revealed to be the first leader smart enough to acquire a spoiler (a history book from the 'future') and take action over it, in that case refocusing away from costly European wars in order to consolidate control of the New World and set up France to become the dominant world empire in the timeline.
I think the short stories are probably the best part of the setting for an adult reader, because they have less focus on the sub-par characters and more focus on the fascinating peculiarities of the time and place. And while the History of kingdoms and religions got derailed pretty early in the series, making historical accuracy kind of a moot point, the little histories of craftsmen and traders get a chance to shine and be properly explored in the short stories.
To be honest everything about the cover and blurb put me off reading 1632, but I've learnt that American fantasy/SF books require applying the maxim "don't judge a book by its cover" quite literally due to the fashion for overblown or just bad cover art and blurb, plus I'd read and enjoyed Eric Flint's _Belisarius_ series, which also dealt with cross-time technology introduction. Lastly, 1632 was free on Amazon, so I figured it was worth a punt! I'm very glad I did because the books are actually incredibly broad in scope and nuance, not at all "America Fuck Yeah!"
To some degree, that's more reflective of Baen's marketing than it is of the book. Or, more accurately: Eric Flint's concept of American freedom and justice is not the same as John Ringo or Thomas Kratman's concept of the same. At least at the time of publication, he was a serious union supporter and at one point was a member of the Socialist Workers Party. 1632 is not at all a socialist novel, but the concept of workers rights is important for at least the first few books (which is as far as I read).
I found them moderately enjoyable pulp adventure myself.
I found them moderately enjoyable pulp adventure myself.
If the theme bothers you, I'd instead try Flint's previous Belisarius series, which similarly has introduction of anachronistic tech as one of its themes in the context the Eastern Roman Empire in the era of Justinian the Great. It's not deep but it is fun and frankly, I thought it was much better written than the 1632 series, which IMO was rather unmemorable.
Another good series and one that having read and enjoyed meant I decided to chance 1632 despite the awful cover and blurb.
As with durian, nattō, and many others in Baen's stable, Eric Flint is very much an acquired taste.
I wonder how much overlap there is in fan base between Flint and his occasional collaborator David Weber?
I've read all the Honor Harrington books/stories and basically nothing else by either of them. Every now and then I read the phpbb forums (forums.davidweber.net) because it's interesting to see conversations by people who have a pretty different worldview than me. Seems like pretty nice folks.
I've read all the Honor Harrington books/stories and basically nothing else by either of them. Every now and then I read the phpbb forums (forums.davidweber.net) because it's interesting to see conversations by people who have a pretty different worldview than me. Seems like pretty nice folks.
I have no issues with Eric Flint or David Weber (although I find Flint's infatuation with Gustavus Adolphus quite bizarre).
The one author whose book I just set down because it made want to puke was one by John Ringo (it was an ARC, don't worry, no money of mine went into his pocket).
The one author whose book I just set down because it made want to puke was one by John Ringo (it was an ARC, don't worry, no money of mine went into his pocket).
As a historiographer, Flint makes a solid writer. As a writer, Weber makes a solid historiographer.
I read this review of one of John Ringo's series some years back and have never been tempted to read anything by him - the review is hilarious, the books sound absolutely fucking awful.
https://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
This review even coined the meme "OH JOHN RINGO NO" lol.
https://hradzka.livejournal.com/194753.html
This review even coined the meme "OH JOHN RINGO NO" lol.
I don't have asuch time to read as I used to but I used to read a lot (like 3-4 novels a week) and John Ringo's books stand out to me as the type that are so bad they're funny if that makes sense. Its not that he can't write because he can, it's that he crossed the line of "well that's in bad taste" over into "you're doing this on purpose right?".
I can't say "good times" but i read a bunch of Ringo's books just because I couldn't believe how an original so bad could get multiple sequals.
I can't say "good times" but i read a bunch of Ringo's books just because I couldn't believe how an original so bad could get multiple sequals.
> I couldn't believe how an original so bad could get multiple sequels
Eh. Baen is (was?) a capitalist, and his publishing house operates likewise - if it sells, they'll buy more of it. I can respect that, even if it doesn't always result in great literature. (Honorverse novels used to be a major guilty pleasure, I'm not in any position to judge here.)
Eh. Baen is (was?) a capitalist, and his publishing house operates likewise - if it sells, they'll buy more of it. I can respect that, even if it doesn't always result in great literature. (Honorverse novels used to be a major guilty pleasure, I'm not in any position to judge here.)
I think a lot of people here have already read, or would be interested in this book/series.
There seemed to be a lot of questions about what would happen if the supply chain broke today... this series explores that issue in a deep way.
There seemed to be a lot of questions about what would happen if the supply chain broke today... this series explores that issue in a deep way.
It also got me interested in the 30 years war which i didnt realise was possibly even bloodier period than WW1 and 2 in europe for the populations impacted.
He has another series in same premise with a modern cruise ship going back to ancient greek times, not as good as this series tho'.
if anyone else has any other recommendations in same genre of time travel and re-booting up civilisation it be great to hear! I always found the genre interesting since Jules Verne's Mysterious Island https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32831.The_Mysterious_Isl...
if anyone else has any other recommendations in same genre of time travel and re-booting up civilisation it be great to hear! I always found the genre interesting since Jules Verne's Mysterious Island https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/32831.The_Mysterious_Isl...
The short story "The Man Who Came Early" by Poul Anderson touches on that theme as well. A soldier is transported back to Iceland of about the year 900 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early
Another classic one is "Lest Darkness Fall" by L. Sprague de Camp in which an archaeologist is transported to Rome in the year 535 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lest_Darkness_Fall
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early
Another classic one is "Lest Darkness Fall" by L. Sprague de Camp in which an archaeologist is transported to Rome in the year 535 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lest_Darkness_Fall
David Drake wrote a sort of prequel to "Lest Darkness Fall" called "To Bring the Light", with an imperial Roman woman transported back to the founding of Rome. Drake's personal experiences increase the realism of his writing, IMO.
He also wrote "Ranks of Bronze" which is sort of the reverse idea, a Roman Legion kidnapped by aliens for preindustrial warfare. Absolutely worth a read, and an interesting counterpoint to most of the 'bringing civilization to the barbarians' narrative these stories normally follow.
H. Beam Piper did a bunch too, check out "Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" if you can find it.
He also wrote "Ranks of Bronze" which is sort of the reverse idea, a Roman Legion kidnapped by aliens for preindustrial warfare. Absolutely worth a read, and an interesting counterpoint to most of the 'bringing civilization to the barbarians' narrative these stories normally follow.
H. Beam Piper did a bunch too, check out "Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen" if you can find it.
> if anyone else has any other recommendations in same genre of time travel and re-booting up civilisation it be great to hear!
The island of Nantucket goes back to the Bronze Age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_in_the_Sea_of_Time
The island of Nantucket goes back to the Bronze Age. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_in_the_Sea_of_Time
Yes, Stirling's Nantucket series is a good example. Loosely also his Emberverse (basically the flip side of the Nantucket series) although I lost interest as I often do with long-running series. Lucifer's Hammer by Niven and Pournelle. A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court is probably the classic of the genre (Mark Twain).
Most of these books are probably overly optimistic about what one or a small group of smart people who just happen to have to right skill sets could accomplish in such a situation with very limited supply chains.
Most of these books are probably overly optimistic about what one or a small group of smart people who just happen to have to right skill sets could accomplish in such a situation with very limited supply chains.
> if anyone else has any other recommendations in same genre of time travel and re-booting up civilisation
There's a couple that I know of:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/40821-belisarius https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=safehold&qid=
Flint was involved in the Belisarius series (along with David Drake), and Safehold is basically Weber's "reboot" of one of the books in his "Armageddon Moon" series.
If you liked 1632 you will probably like these as they're in a similar vein
There's a couple that I know of:
https://www.goodreads.com/series/40821-belisarius https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=safehold&qid=
Flint was involved in the Belisarius series (along with David Drake), and Safehold is basically Weber's "reboot" of one of the books in his "Armageddon Moon" series.
If you liked 1632 you will probably like these as they're in a similar vein
I had no idea about this. Did Jules Verne really have to be the originator or every science fiction sub-genre?
What a jerk.
He was a contemporary of Edison’s. Perhaps both were future men, out of time…
If you like this you may like The Watch, by Dennis Danvers. Peter Kropotkin ends up in Virginia in 1999…
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/dennis-danvers/th...
https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/dennis-danvers/th...
Another series in the same vein is the Safehold series by David Weber: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/72199.Off_Armageddon_Ree...
Safehold was decent but kind of drags towards the end. "Oh, no, if us bad guys lose these huge armies, our treasury will be dry and we'll collapse!", then at the start of the next volume, "We lost those armies, which we already couldn't afford, but we somehow managed to scrape up an even huger army than last time that are even better armed and this time, if we lose them too, no honest, our treasury will be dry and we'll collapse, totally for real this time!"; lather, rinse, repeat.
That seems to be a problem with a lot of these series. They usually start out good but they drag on and on. The story gets stretched out over too many books and it never gets to a satisfying end. It kills the pacing and makes me burn out on a series.
Nowadays I won't even start a series if I see it has that many books without showing any signs of coming to an end. At some point I want to have some closure.
Ideally a series has 5 books max, 3 or 4 would be ideal.
Nowadays I won't even start a series if I see it has that many books without showing any signs of coming to an end. At some point I want to have some closure.
Ideally a series has 5 books max, 3 or 4 would be ideal.
But I enjoyed all fifteen books of the Wheel of Time and it had a satisfactory ending - what for me makes an epic fantasy is that it tells the story of a world-changing event, and world changing events have a very broad scope that involve numerous characters who could be protagonists in their own right. And that's probably going to involve more books than a series focussed on a single character or a small group, no matter how earth-shaking the outcome of that story is.
> That seems to be a problem with a lot of these series. They usually start out good but they drag on and on. The story gets stretched out over too many books and it never gets to a satisfying end. It kills the pacing and makes me burn out on a series.
Hello, Wheeel of Time.
Hello, A Song of Ice and Fire.
Let's see if Martin pulls a Jordan.
Hello, Wheeel of Time.
Hello, A Song of Ice and Fire.
Let's see if Martin pulls a Jordan.
> Let's see if Martin pulls a Jordan.
Dying before finishing the final book? That seems pretty likely.
> At the start of February, Martin told his followers that lockdown had enabled him to make headway on the eagerly anticipated Song of Ice and Fire Book Six. He said: "I wrote hundreds and hundreds of pages of THE WINDS OF WINTER in 2020. The best year I’ve had on WOW since I began it." However, he added some less encouraging news.
> Martin added on his blog (called 'notablog'): "I need to keep rolling, though. I still have hundreds of more pages to write to bring the novel to a satisfactory conclusion."
This sounds almost like "I only really started working on book six in 2020 because the lockdown meant I couldn't gad about the world doing conferences." given that he only writes while on his Wordstar PC that's at his home.
Dying before finishing the final book? That seems pretty likely.
> At the start of February, Martin told his followers that lockdown had enabled him to make headway on the eagerly anticipated Song of Ice and Fire Book Six. He said: "I wrote hundreds and hundreds of pages of THE WINDS OF WINTER in 2020. The best year I’ve had on WOW since I began it." However, he added some less encouraging news.
> Martin added on his blog (called 'notablog'): "I need to keep rolling, though. I still have hundreds of more pages to write to bring the novel to a satisfactory conclusion."
This sounds almost like "I only really started working on book six in 2020 because the lockdown meant I couldn't gad about the world doing conferences." given that he only writes while on his Wordstar PC that's at his home.
> Dying before finishing the final book? That seems pretty likely.
BookS, in Jordan's case. Sanderson wrote at least two, I think maybe three.
Is Winds of Winter supposed to be the last or second to last book of aSoIaF; I thought there was supposed to be something like two more after that?
BookS, in Jordan's case. Sanderson wrote at least two, I think maybe three.
Is Winds of Winter supposed to be the last or second to last book of aSoIaF; I thought there was supposed to be something like two more after that?
Jordan had said there was only to be one more book at the point he became ill, somewhere along the line that turned into three books, presumably the notes and scenes he left to whomever was to finish the series was a bit more extensive than his original estimate.
WoW is the penultimate book in the series apparently. Book 7 will be titled "A Dream of Spring" if it ever arrives...
WoW is the penultimate book in the series apparently. Book 7 will be titled "A Dream of Spring" if it ever arrives...
I'm still sad Rome Sweet Rome fizzled out.
I still reread it occasionally. Electrifying. For those who missed it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/k067x/could_i_de...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/k067x/could_i_de...
Pax Romana finished but also didn’t amount to much. Great setup and art though:
https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/pax-romana-1
https://imagecomics.com/comics/series/pax-romana-1
The premise of the book is interesting, but I do not enjoy Eric Flint's prose or characterization. If you liked 1632 you may also like Belisarious [0] by David Drake and Eric Flint which has a similar feel set in the Eastern Roman Empire.
[0] https://www.baen.com/belisarius-i-thunder-at-dawn.html
History, time travel, and rednecks doing liberty shit? Sign me up!
Another very entertaining series, with a much more SF bent, by Eric Flint, with Ryk E. Spoor is kicked of by the freely available 'Boundary'.
https://www.baen.com/boundary.html
(Like 1632 it also has a dreadful cover - actively despised by Ryk I believe).
https://www.baen.com/boundary.html
(Like 1632 it also has a dreadful cover - actively despised by Ryk I believe).
Authors in the 1632 series have a very optimistic view of capitalism. Also very little understanding of the German language, which is explained away by the creation of "Amideutsch". In the real world, "Amideutsch" wasn't nearly as bad and while Germans readily take up English words, they aren't that malleable when it comes to grammatical mistakes/changes. Especially adults probably wouldn't form that kind of creole and there aren't enough American children to make that much of a difference...
The series helped me think more deeply about the history of Europe, also other parts of the World. There are now stories about China, India, the Americas, probably other places I am forgetting right now.
The series helped me think more deeply about the history of Europe, also other parts of the World. There are now stories about China, India, the Americas, probably other places I am forgetting right now.
> In the real world, "Amideutsch" wasn't nearly as bad
In the real world Germans already were on a technological comparable level to the Americans. Not to mention that by the 1940s the German language had already been much more standardized than it would have been in 1632, one big reason mentioned in the books that boosted "Amideutsch" was the fact that there was no "German" language that all German immigrants to Grantville/Magdeburg could fall back to.
In the real world Germans already were on a technological comparable level to the Americans. Not to mention that by the 1940s the German language had already been much more standardized than it would have been in 1632, one big reason mentioned in the books that boosted "Amideutsch" was the fact that there was no "German" language that all German immigrants to Grantville/Magdeburg could fall back to.
I can easily read and understand most texts from that period. It does feel and sound "old". The grammar is pretty much identical.
It's sometimes difficult to distinguish between a grammatical error and a grammatical "difference to the standard", for example in a dialect or even Creole language. But if it hurts a native speaker, it may very well be a mistake.
It's sometimes difficult to distinguish between a grammatical error and a grammatical "difference to the standard", for example in a dialect or even Creole language. But if it hurts a native speaker, it may very well be a mistake.
I don't entirely disagree on whether the German in the books is bad, I definitely notice issues when they have someone speaking in Dutch. It's just that I don't see how you could compare amideutsch (1632) with amideutsch (real world).
There are sometimes German words and phrases being used, wrongly. One of the lesser authors seemed to actually use google translator, and badly at that.
To me as a native, it just has a feeling of wrongness. For the German language this is different than Dutch because Dutch has a less complicated morphology.
One non-morphological example is that they would translate "uptime" as something like "aufzeit", while referencing it like a river. "zeitauf" would make sense as an adjective, but it hurts as a noun. The literal translation would be "Hochzeit" which unfortunately already means "wedding", but could be distinguished by context and pronunciation.
To me as a native, it just has a feeling of wrongness. For the German language this is different than Dutch because Dutch has a less complicated morphology.
One non-morphological example is that they would translate "uptime" as something like "aufzeit", while referencing it like a river. "zeitauf" would make sense as an adjective, but it hurts as a noun. The literal translation would be "Hochzeit" which unfortunately already means "wedding", but could be distinguished by context and pronunciation.
The original book came out in 2000. Pre-9/11, pre-Enron, pre-financial crisis, most everyone had an optimistic view of capitalism. If this series had been started a few years later than it was, it would feel very different.
> Authors in the 1632 series have a very optimistic view of capitalism.
Really? The series leans heavily pro-union, for example.
Really? The series leans heavily pro-union, for example.
Does it, really? At least one uptime Union and its members play a big role, but I don't remember much about unionization efforts and major strikes. Nothing close to what happened in the industrialization age in Europe. Partly that is because some of the political gains from those efforts have already been leapfrogged downtime.
My point is more around the entrepreneurship and how easy it is for the Americans (and sometimes downtimers) to make a fortune. Also how easy it is to retool whole industries and economies in a short time-frame. But hey, it's fiction...
My point is more around the entrepreneurship and how easy it is for the Americans (and sometimes downtimers) to make a fortune. Also how easy it is to retool whole industries and economies in a short time-frame. But hey, it's fiction...
Eric Flint specifically talks about his long-term support for unions in one of the prefaces (I think) of the early books in the series, quite likely 1632 itself. He's worked in a union as a longshoreman, truck driver, auto worker, steelworker, meatpacker, glassblower and a machinist and was a labour union organiser.
>retool whole industries and economies in a short time-frame
It's a general pattern with this type of book. They're probably way too optimistic about what you could accomplish in the absence of refined raw materials, tools, etc. even if you had a lot of the basic knowledge in some form. Even if you weren't thrown in prison as a wizard or crazy person, making even WWI-level weaponry or antibiotics in a world without even the concept of standardized manufacturing processes would be challenging to put it mildly.
It's a general pattern with this type of book. They're probably way too optimistic about what you could accomplish in the absence of refined raw materials, tools, etc. even if you had a lot of the basic knowledge in some form. Even if you weren't thrown in prison as a wizard or crazy person, making even WWI-level weaponry or antibiotics in a world without even the concept of standardized manufacturing processes would be challenging to put it mildly.
IMO this book does a rather good job of that. And the problems you describe is an ongoing theme throughout the series.
For example, they learn that they cannot even make WW1 level weapons (they settle on a sort of hybrid civil-war era rifles + flintlocks for mass production because of problems making percussion caps, IIRC). And they learn quickly that they can't make antibiotics at more than small lot lab amounts. A lot of their retooling is cannibalizing parts from existing equipment for different uses.
For example, they learn that they cannot even make WW1 level weapons (they settle on a sort of hybrid civil-war era rifles + flintlocks for mass production because of problems making percussion caps, IIRC). And they learn quickly that they can't make antibiotics at more than small lot lab amounts. A lot of their retooling is cannibalizing parts from existing equipment for different uses.
It's been a long time since I read that particular book. It was more of a general comment about how it often seems in these sorts of books that one smart person with some instructions can basically advance technology by hundreds of years in a month or so.
That's exactly why the author sends back a whole small town (with libraries etc), instead of just a single smart person.
Understood. But that doesn't happen in 1632.
Not saying they got all tech decisions right, but they did handle it by falling back many steps, using current knowledge to build crude antique tech. They had more concern with bootstrapping than jumping straight to launching satellites. They were also concerned with the scarcity and value of rather mundane things in our lives today, like rubber tires, plastic bottles, etc...
Some low hanging advances like clean sheets and washing your hand among doctors.
Some low hanging advances like clean sheets and washing your hand among doctors.
The hero of the first book is a union man.
> Does it, really?
It does, with G. Ritchter and CoCs.
It does, with G. Ritchter and CoCs.
They aren't a traditional Union. They aren't organized around professions or industries. They are fighting against anti-semites, nobility, for occasional odd causes (sanitation).
Unions are more of a labor vs capital thing, banding together for more bargaining power. In the 1632 series this isn't a big issue yet because most people aren't working for employers with many employees, so the power imbalance isn't yet as bad. Also the ring of fire "back-ported" some labor rights legislation.
Unions are more of a labor vs capital thing, banding together for more bargaining power. In the 1632 series this isn't a big issue yet because most people aren't working for employers with many employees, so the power imbalance isn't yet as bad. Also the ring of fire "back-ported" some labor rights legislation.
The CoCs are to guilds as unions are to factories in my opinion - they both are for workers' rights but operate within different power structures.
The Grantville Gazette publishes short stories set in the world by other authors, there's in fact a master character list where authors can "check out" characters to ensure consistency. It also has technical articles on subjects such as building aircraft using 17th century techniques, how to build radios that are effective during the Maunder Minimum or how to synthesise different primers in order to manufacture cartridge ammunition.