What I learned running a SaaS for a year(onlineornot.com)
onlineornot.com
What I learned running a SaaS for a year
https://onlineornot.com/what-learned-running-saas-for-year
54 comments
How is your Monetisation going? I guess its hard to make a living from building your own product (I'm trying todo the same). But not impossible... I often sees these "twitter i'm successful founders" who keep mentioning "I'm almost doing 10k MRR" but not talking about costs... Its easy todo 10k per month, if you spend 15k on google ;-)
I'm doing close to 2k per month on MRR but costs are also quite high.
$3.5k USD total over the year, roughly.
Not bad! What's invaluable is what you are currently learning about running a business. Something I learned was that I totally underestimated marketing :p
Am I reading this correctly that you worked 2 hours a day and only made $3.5k all year? Or about $300 a month?
He gets a valuable education, so basically he's getting free tuition plus enough money to buy a good lunch every day.
Interesting.
If he worked 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 1 year (52 weeks), thats 520 hours.
He made $6.73 per hour before self employment and income taxes (if applicable). Or $13.46 per day.
I’m not sure how you get a good lunch and tuition from that unfortunately.
Still, everyone values their time and talents differently, they also have different goals in terms of education and what they consider to be a financial success.
I guess, given the money he’s made, what he’s actually learned is a long list of things he still needs to learn. Because what he’s saying he’s “learned” hasn’t been validated yet. Maybe if he’s making ~$70k by the end of this year we can assume these things he’s learned have value, otherwise, they are mostly observations about the current state of his business and how making adjustments in these areas have mildly impacted his bottom line.
I wish him the best of luck.
If he worked 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 1 year (52 weeks), thats 520 hours.
He made $6.73 per hour before self employment and income taxes (if applicable). Or $13.46 per day.
I’m not sure how you get a good lunch and tuition from that unfortunately.
Still, everyone values their time and talents differently, they also have different goals in terms of education and what they consider to be a financial success.
I guess, given the money he’s made, what he’s actually learned is a long list of things he still needs to learn. Because what he’s saying he’s “learned” hasn’t been validated yet. Maybe if he’s making ~$70k by the end of this year we can assume these things he’s learned have value, otherwise, they are mostly observations about the current state of his business and how making adjustments in these areas have mildly impacted his bottom line.
I wish him the best of luck.
Thanks (I'm in France, so it's 218 working days, 436 hours).
On the education side, my first 3 years as a maker, I didn't grow beyond 1 paid user on any product I sold. I still learned with every failed launch, and every product I shut down.
See "Year in review" at https://maxrozen.com/
The learning has been cumulative.
I went from "Hey if I just copy Pieter Levels, I'll be rich immediately" to "If I build it, they will come" to "Maybe if I write about the problem, people will come?" to "If I talk to people about their problems, maybe I'll understand them well enough to solve a problem for them".
I'm not trying to convince you to take up the life of a bootstrapped founder, I just wrote an article about what I learned from a couple spare hours before my job each day over the last 12 months.
On the education side, my first 3 years as a maker, I didn't grow beyond 1 paid user on any product I sold. I still learned with every failed launch, and every product I shut down.
See "Year in review" at https://maxrozen.com/
The learning has been cumulative.
I went from "Hey if I just copy Pieter Levels, I'll be rich immediately" to "If I build it, they will come" to "Maybe if I write about the problem, people will come?" to "If I talk to people about their problems, maybe I'll understand them well enough to solve a problem for them".
I'm not trying to convince you to take up the life of a bootstrapped founder, I just wrote an article about what I learned from a couple spare hours before my job each day over the last 12 months.
How much do you expect to grow this year? When do you decide it's time to throw in the towel? And I don't mean anything with my last question, I'm genuinely curious about your criteria.
That's the beauty of my setup IMO, I don't plan on quitting full time work, so the revenue is all a bonus on top of what I learn.
That being said, I think I'm at a point where I could spin off an API from OnlineOrNot and make it similarly successful within a month or so.
That being said, I think I'm at a point where I could spin off an API from OnlineOrNot and make it similarly successful within a month or so.
I think you misunderstood. I was wondering when you cancel a SaaS project? What criteria do you use to decide that? Also how much would you like to grow this year or did you mean that you don't use that as a metric? Is it more about the learning aspect of it all?
Do you plan on going the API route?
Do you plan on going the API route?
Ah right.
I would cancel a project if it couldn't pay its own infrastructure bill after 6 months.
If I had to name a goal for the second year, it's to reach $1k MRR across everything I sell online. I still have plenty of ideas for OnlineOrNot, but there are a few APIs I built internally that I could see others paying for (that I'll be testing if people would, actually, before building).
I would cancel a project if it couldn't pay its own infrastructure bill after 6 months.
If I had to name a goal for the second year, it's to reach $1k MRR across everything I sell online. I still have plenty of ideas for OnlineOrNot, but there are a few APIs I built internally that I could see others paying for (that I'll be testing if people would, actually, before building).
Thing is, if you kept your JobsOk.io project for another year you would have been making bank (like Pieter did) from the remote job boom during Covid.
Oh well…
Oh well…
Presumably if they stopped working on their products now it would be some time before revenue started to decrease and then even more before it became practically non existent. In fact it’d probably be some time before revenue stopped increasing.
So they haven’t been working for $6.73/hour. They’ve been building a money printing machine that currently prints $13.46 a day.
Even taking it as working for $6.73/hour though, I’d make that trade plenty often even though I’d never consider regular employment anywhere near it. The flexibility of doing it whenever, whenever. No bosses or coworkers to be accountable to. These things count for a lot.
So they haven’t been working for $6.73/hour. They’ve been building a money printing machine that currently prints $13.46 a day.
Even taking it as working for $6.73/hour though, I’d make that trade plenty often even though I’d never consider regular employment anywhere near it. The flexibility of doing it whenever, whenever. No bosses or coworkers to be accountable to. These things count for a lot.
Not to mention that's the current value, he could stop working on it right now and that hourly rate will go up as time goes on, as long as it's making money.
You've got to remember the math of compound interest. He's investing up front now for a steady stream later. The day he decides it's feature complete and to stop working will not be the day people stop paying. In many SaaS I've been a part of , the first year or two looks bloody to most people, but it's the continued stream that matters.
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That’s a win in my books. Lots of other ppl actually lose money their first year.
He probably learned a lot more than he could have, say, attending a code bootcamp — and he made money on top of that. So it's a huge win in my opinion.
Ah found it in your blog! https://onlineornot.com/eight-months-of-onlineornot
Hey, I'm the creator of OnlineOrNot.
I mainly started building it because I wanted to learn more about running a business, marketing, and SEO (all the technical parts of the business were relatively easy in comparison).
I mainly started building it because I wanted to learn more about running a business, marketing, and SEO (all the technical parts of the business were relatively easy in comparison).
I'm having the same experience, 8 months in. The software is by far the easy part.
i have same feeling for technical vs marketing side
i don’t regret launching a failing SaaS for me or for client because it gave me the opportunity to learn ins and outs for almost no cost
by the way, how does you product compare to instatus.com?
i don’t regret launching a failing SaaS for me or for client because it gave me the opportunity to learn ins and outs for almost no cost
by the way, how does you product compare to instatus.com?
At the moment, I just handle the monitoring (static websites, APIs, and now JavaScript apps) and alerts.
You can then use that data to write accurate status updates on your system's status page, but we do not host public status pages.
You can then use that data to write accurate status updates on your system's status page, but we do not host public status pages.
Thanks for sharing!
This is such a great example of having your pre-existing belief questioned, noticing user behavior, and adapting accordingly:
> Contrary to popular belief (for B2B SaaS), people actually work from their phones.
> Something like 50% of traffic to OnlineOrNot.com comes from folks on mobile. They tend to quickly create an account, add a few pages to monitor, then eventually get on their laptop/desktop to review their checks from time to time.
> For about 6 months I didn't support mobile well, and folks that signed up on their phone churned rapidly. I eventually took the time to build responsive views for mobile, and now new mobile users are sticking around.
Just curious -- in addition observing their behavior, have you talked to those customers (either via support/email or interviews) to understand this workflow?
This is such a great example of having your pre-existing belief questioned, noticing user behavior, and adapting accordingly:
> Contrary to popular belief (for B2B SaaS), people actually work from their phones.
> Something like 50% of traffic to OnlineOrNot.com comes from folks on mobile. They tend to quickly create an account, add a few pages to monitor, then eventually get on their laptop/desktop to review their checks from time to time.
> For about 6 months I didn't support mobile well, and folks that signed up on their phone churned rapidly. I eventually took the time to build responsive views for mobile, and now new mobile users are sticking around.
Just curious -- in addition observing their behavior, have you talked to those customers (either via support/email or interviews) to understand this workflow?
I've mainly been emailing customers to try understand their processes better.
I read your book though, and I've been working up the courage to do customer interviews over Zoom/calls!
I read your book though, and I've been working up the courage to do customer interviews over Zoom/calls!
oooh, you should share the email copy you're using on Twitter! would happily RT, so helpful to have real-life examples
let me know how it goes when you work up to interviews! :)
let me know how it goes when you work up to interviews! :)
not the OP, but i have actually observed a similar thing in the past - people land on marketing page on the phone, sign up, go to dashboard, etc.
then then go to desktop and pick up where they left off
then then go to desktop and pick up where they left off
Pricing is hard but we also make it harder than it needs to be, especially if we have doubts about our product and the imposter syndrome (our product isn't perfect so can I charge premium?)
Once (as the OP pointed out) we see that we are solving a problem rather than selling a service/product, it becomes easier to price, at least in the right ballpark.
If you are saving perhaps 10 hours of time per week for a customer, you can price roughly how much you save them (probably a lot) and then you can charge accordingly. If you are saving whole employees from needing to be employed, then the sky is the limit.
In the same way, if you were renting a Bouncer to a nightclub, you wouldn't be bothered that they aren't quite tall enough or don't speak French. Those things would be nice to haves but they still perform a job!
Once (as the OP pointed out) we see that we are solving a problem rather than selling a service/product, it becomes easier to price, at least in the right ballpark.
If you are saving perhaps 10 hours of time per week for a customer, you can price roughly how much you save them (probably a lot) and then you can charge accordingly. If you are saving whole employees from needing to be employed, then the sky is the limit.
In the same way, if you were renting a Bouncer to a nightclub, you wouldn't be bothered that they aren't quite tall enough or don't speak French. Those things would be nice to haves but they still perform a job!
> If you are saving perhaps 10 hours of time per week for a customer, you can price roughly how much you save them (probably a lot) and then you can charge accordingly.
You're omitting one critical piece of pricing. Saving someone 10 hours per week doesn't mean much unless you can convince them they will save 10 hours per week before they've used the product and you actually deliver so that they stick with you in the future. Oh, and if there's a competitor that saves 9 hours per week at half the cost, you're not going to have many customers.
You're omitting one critical piece of pricing. Saving someone 10 hours per week doesn't mean much unless you can convince them they will save 10 hours per week before they've used the product and you actually deliver so that they stick with you in the future. Oh, and if there's a competitor that saves 9 hours per week at half the cost, you're not going to have many customers.
> Use analytics, set-up funnel tracking
Any thoughts on which analytics services, regarding privacy and "acceptable to users" kind of metrics?
(Former Google employee, who don't quite get the hatred Google receives online, but feeling that Google Analytics has a really complex UI for my needs.)
Any thoughts on which analytics services, regarding privacy and "acceptable to users" kind of metrics?
(Former Google employee, who don't quite get the hatred Google receives online, but feeling that Google Analytics has a really complex UI for my needs.)
Mixpanel, their UI is amazing and they make it really easy to setup graphs that are actually useful.
I'd recommend only sending server side events so you get really accurate stats and no privacy invasion.
I tried to limit the number of events tracked as well, and made sure I knew why I was tracking something, and not just "because I can", I found that it made it easier to focus on what matters.
I'd recommend only sending server side events so you get really accurate stats and no privacy invasion.
I tried to limit the number of events tracked as well, and made sure I knew why I was tracking something, and not just "because I can", I found that it made it easier to focus on what matters.
How far does webserver access log analysis take you? If you log IP address or some other kind of user fingerprinting and referer headers I think you'd get pretty far already in doing rudimentary funnel analytics without needing permission or installing 3rd party tooling on the website. Mind you, my understanding of analytics is minimal at best; I don't know what use cases are usually applied to this data.
Plausible for marketing site, Mixpanel for the app, has been a great combo for me.
I use Plausible analytics for site analytics - you can do quite a bit just by firing events when users land on a page (don't need to know who they are, just need a count of people that see page A, B, and C).
If you like self-hosting: https://www.uxwizz.com/
I built https://graphjson.com for builders like yourself! Feel free to email me (in bio) if you have any questions. I wrote about how and why I built it here https://www.graphjson.com/guides/about
I’ve found Azure’s Application Insights to be quite privacy focused. You can host the instance in whatever region you prefer. The UI isn’t all that great, but it seems pretty decent.
Are any Azure regions currently operated by independent companies that license Azure code from Microsoft?
(if not, what difference does the region make privacy-wise, if the parent US company can ultimately still access the data?)
(if not, what difference does the region make privacy-wise, if the parent US company can ultimately still access the data?)
Does it matter if you’ve turned off all PII collection? If that’s your threat model to your own app though (ie, doing stuff that’s illegal in the US but not where you serve traffic), self hosting is probably the way to go.
No, if they process no PII then it does not matter.
> half of my time went to actually solving the problem I wanted to solve (knowing if a site is down, and alerting folks when that happens). The other half went to building a SaaS platform around that problem.
You’d think in today’s software landscape there would be tools to simplify or automate the part or building a SaaS business that everyone needs to do.
He mentions Stripe for payments of course, but isn’t there anything broader to get set up more quickly? Like a shopify for SaaS businesses?
You’d think in today’s software landscape there would be tools to simplify or automate the part or building a SaaS business that everyone needs to do.
He mentions Stripe for payments of course, but isn’t there anything broader to get set up more quickly? Like a shopify for SaaS businesses?
Stripe pretty much is that. There's only so much abstraction you can do on payment processing.
> the part or building a SaaS business that everyone needs to do.
A few critical ones off the top of my head
- payments (subscriptions, cancellations, invoices, etc)
- authentication (signup, login, invite, forgot password)
- transactional emails (confirmations, etc)
for enterprise:
- permissions, access controls
- audit logs
- gdpr
- reporting, monitoring
- single sign on
other common saas-y needs
- notifications
- error monitoring
- performance monitoring
- admin tools (impersonate, deletions)
- feature flagging
I'm surprised a "SaaS in a box" hasn't really gotten traction. I think part of it is the tech stack dependencies - frontend frameworks, backend languages & frameworks, infra, databases, 3rd party tools
A few critical ones off the top of my head
- payments (subscriptions, cancellations, invoices, etc)
- authentication (signup, login, invite, forgot password)
- transactional emails (confirmations, etc)
for enterprise:
- permissions, access controls
- audit logs
- gdpr
- reporting, monitoring
- single sign on
other common saas-y needs
- notifications
- error monitoring
- performance monitoring
- admin tools (impersonate, deletions)
- feature flagging
I'm surprised a "SaaS in a box" hasn't really gotten traction. I think part of it is the tech stack dependencies - frontend frameworks, backend languages & frameworks, infra, databases, 3rd party tools
You gotta understand that a lot of people who go into bootstrapping a SaaS are technical people, mostly developers. We're highly opinionated and naive af on stack stuff. We could find the ideal "SaaS in a box" framework/boilerplate, but one small feature just doesn't sit right, so now we're building it all ourselves.
Frameworks like RoR, Laravel, .NET framework provide most of it which are mostly SaaS in a box from technical perspective.
Then you have headless CMS-es on top of which you also can build stuff.
So you can plugin your email provider, payment provider, single sign on. It does not take much code but you still have to understand how to integrate stuff.
Then you have wordpress where people basically install all kind of plugins and you can have all what was listed in CMS, but then you get "wordpress developers" to hire so I don't see much difference.
Then you have headless CMS-es on top of which you also can build stuff.
So you can plugin your email provider, payment provider, single sign on. It does not take much code but you still have to understand how to integrate stuff.
Then you have wordpress where people basically install all kind of plugins and you can have all what was listed in CMS, but then you get "wordpress developers" to hire so I don't see much difference.
Depending on the technology stack there are frameworks like SaaS Starter Kit for Phoenix: https://fullstackphoenix.com/saas-starter-kit
Paddle.com is pretty simple. I implemented Paddle in my App in less than 2 hours. Stripe API became too complex for my needs.
There probably is, but I like to avoid sharing around customer data unnecessarily.
Welcome to the club! Reminds me a lot of the first ~1,5 years hacking on my then bootstrapped monitoring product.