Google Fi Suddenly Strikes(migrant.substack.com)
migrant.substack.com
Google Fi Suddenly Strikes
https://migrant.substack.com/p/how-google-fi-suddenly-struck
52 comments
>From a European perspective, coming to America/Canada is very expensive. You have to have a very fancy phone plan to "freely" roam there, and you'd know about it.
In France, with a normal subscription, I can roam freely in 3/4 of the world with 25GB of internet without additional charge: https://i.imgur.com/l2bjCz9.png (red parts: unlimited calls + 25GB of data, orange part: 25GB of data but limited calls).
And it's like 20€ / month…
In France, with a normal subscription, I can roam freely in 3/4 of the world with 25GB of internet without additional charge: https://i.imgur.com/l2bjCz9.png (red parts: unlimited calls + 25GB of data, orange part: 25GB of data but limited calls).
And it's like 20€ / month…
Wow, this actually makes getting a European plan tempting here in the US.
Not sure how feasible it is or what I'd have to work around, but aside from that, it makes more sense than any plan I've used stateside.
Not sure how feasible it is or what I'd have to work around, but aside from that, it makes more sense than any plan I've used stateside.
This used to be one of Google Fi's selling points, that you could use it anywhere even for extended periods of time. Now they have shortened their arbitrary limit so it's catching a lot of people by surprise.
I moved my oldest number from Voice to Fi specifically because I was anticipating (and had) several years of international travel in Europe and the Pacific. It worked flawlessly, and now I'm going to find some other offering if I have such plans again (which feels unlikely but you never know about the future).
1. You're victim blaming.
2. This was literally a selling point of this.
3. During circumstances like a fucking war happening, if you're making decisions as a company you need to ask the hard questions and create the environment to ask those questions.
Let's stop giving excuses for companies. This is entirely on Google for not communicating and not thinking 5 miles beyond their HQ of the impacts of their shit.
This isn't to say they can't make mistakes. Just that if they do they should learn from them.
2. This was literally a selling point of this.
3. During circumstances like a fucking war happening, if you're making decisions as a company you need to ask the hard questions and create the environment to ask those questions.
Let's stop giving excuses for companies. This is entirely on Google for not communicating and not thinking 5 miles beyond their HQ of the impacts of their shit.
This isn't to say they can't make mistakes. Just that if they do they should learn from them.
> 2. This was literally a selling point of this.
FYI "Google Fi" has never allowed more than 6 months abroad and it's never been a selling point for being outside the US for that length of time.
I don't think "Project Fi" was ever clear on what the maximum limit would be until at some point before 2019 (can't find when specifically) they started strictly enforcing a 6 month limit, you can find many Reddit posts at the time of people running in to this issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectFi/comments/89w4vp/extended_...
I also think there should be exceptions extenuating circumstance but even if there are significant legal barriers to provide that I think the failure here, as is often the failure with Google Fi, is the lack of communication.
Google Fi has your phone number and they have an app installed on your phone, they have multiple ways they could give you a heads up that your about to hit your abroad limit. Google Fi offers you the ability to pause your service, it would be easy enough to notify you 2 months, 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 week, and then daily that you are about to hit that termination date unless you pause your plan or return to the US. Then you could get a local sim and pause the Google Fi service with ample warning.
FYI "Google Fi" has never allowed more than 6 months abroad and it's never been a selling point for being outside the US for that length of time.
I don't think "Project Fi" was ever clear on what the maximum limit would be until at some point before 2019 (can't find when specifically) they started strictly enforcing a 6 month limit, you can find many Reddit posts at the time of people running in to this issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectFi/comments/89w4vp/extended_...
I also think there should be exceptions extenuating circumstance but even if there are significant legal barriers to provide that I think the failure here, as is often the failure with Google Fi, is the lack of communication.
Google Fi has your phone number and they have an app installed on your phone, they have multiple ways they could give you a heads up that your about to hit your abroad limit. Google Fi offers you the ability to pause your service, it would be easy enough to notify you 2 months, 1 month, 2 weeks, 1 week, and then daily that you are about to hit that termination date unless you pause your plan or return to the US. Then you could get a local sim and pause the Google Fi service with ample warning.
FWIW this is reminding me of the bait and switch of gsuite. I'm not talking about the well discussed free tier, more so I'm talking about the fact that Google was pushing so many ads for "Google for your family" around 2012ish. I subscribed to gsuite at the time. Then it turns out I can't actually do any family sharing with it.
Like, why can't I share my YouTube premium with my partner? It's stupid as hell and Google really just ruins my UX with it.
Like, why can't I share my YouTube premium with my partner? It's stupid as hell and Google really just ruins my UX with it.
While I'm sympathetic to OP's situation, this is a known policy with Fi. When I moved from the US to Spain I searched whether my Fi would continue to work when I moved. There are countless reports of people's service being terminated once they've spent enough time abroad. My Fi got turned off after about 3 months out of the U.S (we had already activated Vodafone SIMS anticipating the termination). On the Fi support page: "If you try to activate Fi abroad or use Fi service predominantly internationally, you may have your international capabilities suspended." They make exceptions for government employees and military which is why the support technician asked that question.
> If you try to activate Fi abroad or use Fi service predominately internationally, you may have your international capabilities suspended.
> this is a known policy with Fi
Fi _heavily_ hypes their support for being able to travel to 200+ counties and still provide service. I’d wager most Fi users on HN bought it for this very reason. I wonder what fraction of those read that fine print and know they can be screwed by simply using the service they believe are paying for.
> this is a known policy with Fi
Fi _heavily_ hypes their support for being able to travel to 200+ counties and still provide service. I’d wager most Fi users on HN bought it for this very reason. I wonder what fraction of those read that fine print and know they can be screwed by simply using the service they believe are paying for.
The policy is one thing. But being unwilling or unable to make any policy exceptions even in the case of illness or being stranded abroad is quite ridiculous.
The problem is that it’s most likely never been built to allow overrides in the first place.
I understand the reason why they have the restriction in place - roaming costs money and is only profitable for occasional usage. An always-roaming customer would be a net loss for the business.
However, the system should be built to allow the customer to pay the true price of roaming and extend their stay if they need.
I understand the reason why they have the restriction in place - roaming costs money and is only profitable for occasional usage. An always-roaming customer would be a net loss for the business.
However, the system should be built to allow the customer to pay the true price of roaming and extend their stay if they need.
I'm this case it seems to have been ~6m outside the US (September to March). The issue with the reminder (which was supposed to have been sent 30d before ending service) seems key, since if that had worked the OP wouldn't have been surprised ("suddenly strikes") and would have had time to make other arrangements.
(Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)
(Disclosure: I work for Google, speaking only for myself)
I signed up for Fi when it came out. I knew about the policy regarding primary usage in the US, that’s stated clearly in the terms of service. I traveled for six years with Fi as my backup service — I usually got a local SIM everywhere I stayed for more than a week. Local service is almost always cheaper than Fi. I could get Fi notifications and check voicemail online. Google never shut me off. I was usually in the US for a month every year.
I sympathize with the OP’s circumstances. It would be nice if Google customer service could make exceptions. But I would never rely on that. I never rely on any single service working all the time everywhere. Two phone numbers, multiple email addresses, two bank accounts. US companies are rarely set up to deal with expats, nomads, or anyone living outside the normal lines.
I sympathize with the OP’s circumstances. It would be nice if Google customer service could make exceptions. But I would never rely on that. I never rely on any single service working all the time everywhere. Two phone numbers, multiple email addresses, two bank accounts. US companies are rarely set up to deal with expats, nomads, or anyone living outside the normal lines.
Same. I use verizon as primary and google fi for backup and international travel. Dual esim. Dont even use the fi number for anything. What you can try to do is get a data only sim (up to 4 free with fi) and leave the primary active in the US and just travel with data sims
I would use Fi for internet service for the time it took me to get off the plane and buy a local SIM. I freelanced for US companies while living abroad so a US number was important. I didn’t necessarily have to answer it right away.
> I could get Fi notifications and check voicemail online.
I used to do that as well, and still have Google Fi, but aggravatingly, all its integrated features fell victim to Google's butchering of messaging services. You can no longer get or send SMS via hangouts, and can no longer get voicemail notifications online: both appear to require that you be actively connected to mobile service, like every other provider.
Considering that these were major selling points, it's particularly annoying that they just disappeared.
I used to do that as well, and still have Google Fi, but aggravatingly, all its integrated features fell victim to Google's butchering of messaging services. You can no longer get or send SMS via hangouts, and can no longer get voicemail notifications online: both appear to require that you be actively connected to mobile service, like every other provider.
Considering that these were major selling points, it's particularly annoying that they just disappeared.
You can get voicemails with the Fi mobile app.
Fi isn’t the best solution for everyone. You can find other services if you need a US phone number that can forward and receive SMS. I used Twilio too.
I needed a US number that my customers could reach me on wherever I was, in case of emergencies, because I do a lot of system admin and infrastructure work. The OP had a different problem: cheap roaming and calling back to the US.
Fi isn’t the best solution for everyone. You can find other services if you need a US phone number that can forward and receive SMS. I used Twilio too.
I needed a US number that my customers could reach me on wherever I was, in case of emergencies, because I do a lot of system admin and infrastructure work. The OP had a different problem: cheap roaming and calling back to the US.
The hurdle of moving everything to a new sim could be a hassle, but being locked out of services tied to your number and 2FA is pretty debilitating. Continuity is the main reason I use Fi
Moving what to a new SIM? Smartphones store contacts in the phone and cloud, not on the SIM card. If you’re going to live overseas and need a US number get a phone that supports dual SIM cards.
Most of the newer iPhones support either two nano SIMs or built-in eSIM plus physical SIM. Takes a few seconds to set it up.
TOTP 2FA (Authy, Google Auth, etc.) does not need cell or internet, it’s time-based. SMS 2FA is harder to accommodate, for that I suggest a US number with Twilio that you can forward to any number in the world.
Most of the newer iPhones support either two nano SIMs or built-in eSIM plus physical SIM. Takes a few seconds to set it up.
TOTP 2FA (Authy, Google Auth, etc.) does not need cell or internet, it’s time-based. SMS 2FA is harder to accommodate, for that I suggest a US number with Twilio that you can forward to any number in the world.
Never trust Google for critical services if you can help it. They suck at customer support of any kind. Once their automation decides something, nothing short of a PR disaster tends to change it.
Then there is the ever growing Google Graveyard. I wonder how long Fi has?
Then there is the ever growing Google Graveyard. I wonder how long Fi has?
And what survives will slowly be turned to an ad-infested mess. I’m still sour about what’s happening to Google Maps, to speak nothing of Google Search.
Theer's a lot of technical details I don't understand.
What is "Messenger" and what is "message web interface" and what exactly is it that he desperately needs to sync?
Contacts? Aren't they already store on the phone when you sync against gmail?
SMS? Aren't they already stored on the phone? The same with call history, right?
What is "Messenger" and what is "message web interface" and what exactly is it that he desperately needs to sync?
Contacts? Aren't they already store on the phone when you sync against gmail?
SMS? Aren't they already stored on the phone? The same with call history, right?
As a digital nomad the SMS 2FA auth is a constant pain in the butt. I'm not fron the US so Google Fi is a non-starter for my case.
My current setup is to use Airalo for e-sims to get data access and Devyce to get a virtual UK phone number that can receive SMS messages. I do have a Google Fi number, which I can access the SMS messages via the web interface, but I haven't found it to be particularly useful (It predates Devyce).
The Devyce mobile app is a bit clunky, but it's heading in the right direction and it's been capable of both making calls and receiving text messages.
I would pay quite a bit for a service where it just worked globally, even with varying data restrictions and costs per region (within reason). Unfortunately most roaming seems focused on extracting the most amount of money out of the short-term traveller as possible.
I also can't understand why operators like Vodafone don't use their global clout to outperform in this regard.
My current setup is to use Airalo for e-sims to get data access and Devyce to get a virtual UK phone number that can receive SMS messages. I do have a Google Fi number, which I can access the SMS messages via the web interface, but I haven't found it to be particularly useful (It predates Devyce).
The Devyce mobile app is a bit clunky, but it's heading in the right direction and it's been capable of both making calls and receiving text messages.
I would pay quite a bit for a service where it just worked globally, even with varying data restrictions and costs per region (within reason). Unfortunately most roaming seems focused on extracting the most amount of money out of the short-term traveller as possible.
I also can't understand why operators like Vodafone don't use their global clout to outperform in this regard.
OP here. I am now thinking of porting my US number to Twilio and configuring everything manually. I wonder if that's available for your country too.
https://support.twilio.com/hc/en-us/articles/223179348-Porti...
https://support.twilio.com/hc/en-us/articles/223179348-Porti...
I use OpenPhone.co for this. Great polished UI, and ok mobile app. The only downside is some services do not respect virtual numbers, notably Amazon. But the same issue would be with Twilio.
I haven't had that problem with Devyce, all the SMS messages I'm expecting seem to come through. I had also heard about Twilio limitations which is what stopped me from using it (haven't tried so can't confirm).
Edit: OpenPhone.co looks interesting
Edit: OpenPhone.co looks interesting
This is why I don't connect phone number with any services. But, as the time progress it has become impossible. Even creating gmail account requires phone :/
Several things don’t add up and just show ignorance or selfishness. Examples:
- traveling with covid
- needing to extend a visa after 20 days in the EU (Ukraine is not a Schengen country so he just entered) even though it’s 90 by default.
- thinking it “works in 150 countries” without limits
- attaching a sob story and unnecessary medical details about how much he needed for this to not happen
Since the lockout happened at least 17 days after he got the fever, he most likely does not have covid and can definitely fly back to the US, just like he flew with covid to Spain.
But of course that’s more inconvenient than just blaming someone else.
- traveling with covid
- needing to extend a visa after 20 days in the EU (Ukraine is not a Schengen country so he just entered) even though it’s 90 by default.
- thinking it “works in 150 countries” without limits
- attaching a sob story and unnecessary medical details about how much he needed for this to not happen
Since the lockout happened at least 17 days after he got the fever, he most likely does not have covid and can definitely fly back to the US, just like he flew with covid to Spain.
But of course that’s more inconvenient than just blaming someone else.
Given all the political posturing, hacktivism, war hacking, as a result of the war in Ukraine, there is suddenly a great deal of uncertainty in the digital and economic infrastructure if our world.
While I applaud some degree of non-military pressure to help end the war, I think there should be certain areas that are off-limit to such tactics.
These include: basic telecom and internet access, basic payment and disbursement systems, basic transportation, basic identity and profiles, etc.
While I applaud some degree of non-military pressure to help end the war, I think there should be certain areas that are off-limit to such tactics.
These include: basic telecom and internet access, basic payment and disbursement systems, basic transportation, basic identity and profiles, etc.
Do you have any examples in mind? Even at the times of war the Internet and cellular infrastructure in Ukraine works. At least in the part controlled by Ukraine. I had a first-hand report of russian occuping forces shooting down cell stations using armored vehicle gun at the occupied territories. Ironically that hindered their own secure communication, as their ERA devices use 3G for encrypted communications.
So OP traveled for an extended period of time, and then got confused by having to switch SIM for a bit?
I mean I think Fi should be more chill about exemptions but I’m not sure how it warranted an article.
Perhaps as a cautionary tale about relying on SMS 2FA long term…
I mean I think Fi should be more chill about exemptions but I’m not sure how it warranted an article.
Perhaps as a cautionary tale about relying on SMS 2FA long term…
They announced this move a month and a half in advance. They even emailed us all to let us know of an impending roaming data cutoff if we didn't connect from inside the USA within the next month.
According to OP:
> I have never received any email
> Please check if you have blocked the system automated emails. Lohitha · 1:46 PM
> I have not 1:46 PM L
> I have never seen the email And I cannot find it in my gmail account: I am looking now 1:47 PM L
If you're cutting off someones phone service, you could at least try to call them/send a SMS before, instead of just an email. Just like if you cut off someones email service, you'd expect at least one email before that happens.
> I have never received any email
> Please check if you have blocked the system automated emails. Lohitha · 1:46 PM
> I have not 1:46 PM L
> I have never seen the email And I cannot find it in my gmail account: I am looking now 1:47 PM L
If you're cutting off someones phone service, you could at least try to call them/send a SMS before, instead of just an email. Just like if you cut off someones email service, you'd expect at least one email before that happens.
What was the subject of the email? I don't delete email, and am not seeing one like that.
Date: Feb 3
Subject: Your international data roaming will be suspended soon
Contents:
As a reminder, Fi's Terms of Service require you to use our service primarily in the United States (territories not included), and it looks like you've been predominantly using Fi abroad. In 30 days, we'll need to suspend your international roaming data capabilities unless you start using Fi in the United States again (territories not included). Your calls and texts will not be impacted.
We may grant exceptions for military members and state department workers who are serving abroad. Please complete the following steps to request an exception.
Your phone number is safe on Fi until you cancel service or move it to another provider. If you believe you received this message in error or have any questions, please contact Fi support.
Subject: Your international data roaming will be suspended soon
Contents:
As a reminder, Fi's Terms of Service require you to use our service primarily in the United States (territories not included), and it looks like you've been predominantly using Fi abroad. In 30 days, we'll need to suspend your international roaming data capabilities unless you start using Fi in the United States again (territories not included). Your calls and texts will not be impacted.
We may grant exceptions for military members and state department workers who are serving abroad. Please complete the following steps to request an exception.
Go to offers.sheerid.com/google-fi/government
Fill out the verification form (make sure to use your corresponding Fi email address)
Submit the required documents
Your phone number is safe on Fi until you cancel service or move it to another provider. If you believe you received this message in error or have any questions, please contact Fi support.
dup from 5 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30678249
Not quite, in my opinion. In this post, OP offers a lot more background information as well as substantial updates into trying to at least work around Google's incompetence.
Screw google
Did he really get into a plane with 100 fever and COVID?
Imagine fleeing from an active warzone (or a place that is about to become an active warzone) and the first thing people react to is having a fever the day before flying.
Yeah, I understand it's a concern that the virus might continue spreading by that action, but if I felt like my life was on the line (eg: not going on a random vacation), I think I'd do the same thing, even if I had COVID.
Yeah, I understand it's a concern that the virus might continue spreading by that action, but if I felt like my life was on the line (eg: not going on a random vacation), I think I'd do the same thing, even if I had COVID.
You can’t shut down the world for 2 years to prevent people doing things just like that then suddenly handwave them away and expect people to not be bothered by it.
Covid variants have gotten less deadly over time. At some point you need to let people travel, and without judgement from a war zone.
You can't just spew your opinion all over the place without taking into consideration the context as well.
Ukraine in a normal state: Yes, don't fly anywhere if you have COVID.
Ukraine while being invaded by another country: Yeah, lets get you out of there. If you have COVID we'll work around it somehow, as we want to save lives, which is the whole point behind COVID restrictions in the first place.
Ukraine in a normal state: Yes, don't fly anywhere if you have COVID.
Ukraine while being invaded by another country: Yeah, lets get you out of there. If you have COVID we'll work around it somehow, as we want to save lives, which is the whole point behind COVID restrictions in the first place.
It’s easy to judge from our ivory towers but this is survival. Chances of surviving covid is much higher than surviving a rocket.
I am amazed this has to be explained. Ivory tower indeed.
From a European perspective, coming to America/Canada is very expensive. You have to have a very fancy phone plan to "freely" roam there, and you'd know about it.
This is a case of poor planning. I'm not sure Fi is the bad organisation here.