Reasons a Raspberry Pi Belongs in Your Network Lab(blogs.cisco.com)
blogs.cisco.com
Reasons a Raspberry Pi Belongs in Your Network Lab
https://blogs.cisco.com/learning/5-reasons-a-raspberry-pi-belongs-in-your-network-lab
107 comments
> If one really wants small form factor and lower power consumption why not choose a pine64, orange pi or radxa boards? Yes, certain features like hdmi(on Quartz64), or hardware accelerated video encode/decode is only supported in older kernels, but if one needs a generic network box even fairly new Linux kernels work.
To not play "what the fuck doesn't work on it" lottery. Over years I had a bunch of different boards and it is always something that needs proprietary drivers that inevitably are pinned to some old kernel, or just something doesn't work very well.
Now rPi4 still isn't 100% supported in upstream kernel but just installing raspbian just works.
Same with all expansion boards, they will generally need only a little configuration on rPi but anything else is crapshoot.
> but if one needs a generic network box even fairly new Linux kernels work.
There are dedicated ones with multiple NICs for that purpose, both ARM and x86.
To not play "what the fuck doesn't work on it" lottery. Over years I had a bunch of different boards and it is always something that needs proprietary drivers that inevitably are pinned to some old kernel, or just something doesn't work very well.
Now rPi4 still isn't 100% supported in upstream kernel but just installing raspbian just works.
Same with all expansion boards, they will generally need only a little configuration on rPi but anything else is crapshoot.
> but if one needs a generic network box even fairly new Linux kernels work.
There are dedicated ones with multiple NICs for that purpose, both ARM and x86.
You assume people need to buy a new RPi. But many people reading such an article already have one or two at home, just searching for more use cases for their (often unused) toys.
I have three Rasperry Pi. One of them is the original model that they made first. That one I don’t use currently because it’s a bit slow. Well they are all slow, but the first one especially so.
The two other Raspberry Pi that I have are Model 3B+. On one of these I run Raspbian. On the other one I run FreeBSD.
I would like to buy a few more Rapsberry Pi, but they are not so easy to come by.
I would especially like to buy the following:
- Raspberry Pi 4
- Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 (CM4)
If anyone has one or more RPi 4 or RPi CM4 that they are not using, I would be interested to buy them so that I can put them to use. I have an address in Norway, and an address in Spain. So if anyone in any countries nearby (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, France, Germany, Portugal, etc) have some RPi 4 or RPi CM4 that they are not using and willing to part with for a reasonable price, please let me know :)
The two other Raspberry Pi that I have are Model 3B+. On one of these I run Raspbian. On the other one I run FreeBSD.
I would like to buy a few more Rapsberry Pi, but they are not so easy to come by.
I would especially like to buy the following:
- Raspberry Pi 4
- Raspberry Pi Compute Module 4 (CM4)
If anyone has one or more RPi 4 or RPi CM4 that they are not using, I would be interested to buy them so that I can put them to use. I have an address in Norway, and an address in Spain. So if anyone in any countries nearby (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Spain, France, Germany, Portugal, etc) have some RPi 4 or RPi CM4 that they are not using and willing to part with for a reasonable price, please let me know :)
What is the point of using an RPi for heavier compute, and not something like ODroid [1] [2] or a beefier Orange Pi [3]?
To me, the very point of RPi is to be cheap, slow, and hacking-friendly, with all these GPIO pins to control peripherals like a 3D printer, or a toy car / robot platform, etc. It was intended and initially promoted as an educational toy for schoolchildren, I remember it well. It fits fits to that purpose, and has nothing to do with higher-performance compute.
[1]: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2l-with-2gbyte-ram/
[2]: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2l-with-2gbyte-ram/
[3]: http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontro...
To me, the very point of RPi is to be cheap, slow, and hacking-friendly, with all these GPIO pins to control peripherals like a 3D printer, or a toy car / robot platform, etc. It was intended and initially promoted as an educational toy for schoolchildren, I remember it well. It fits fits to that purpose, and has nothing to do with higher-performance compute.
[1]: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2l-with-2gbyte-ram/
[2]: https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2l-with-2gbyte-ram/
[3]: http://www.orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computerAndMicrocontro...
> What is the point of using an RPi for heavier compute, and not something like ODroid [1] [2] or a beefier Orange Pi [3]?
I have an Odroid XU-3 as well, and intend to buy some more Odroids also. But this thread is specifically about RPi and I still want more RPis because they have a much much bigger community than anything else :)
I have an Odroid XU-3 as well, and intend to buy some more Odroids also. But this thread is specifically about RPi and I still want more RPis because they have a much much bigger community than anything else :)
You might check https://rpilocator.com/
> If one really wants small form factor and lower power consumption why not choose a pine64, orange pi or radxa boards?
Community support is best for the original RPi. There are enough of them around to make sure that you can run them with a modern OS and supported kernel in a decade, with knockoffs you can never be sure when (or if!) bugs will be fixed or how long someone will maintain a kernel fork.
Community support is best for the original RPi. There are enough of them around to make sure that you can run them with a modern OS and supported kernel in a decade, with knockoffs you can never be sure when (or if!) bugs will be fixed or how long someone will maintain a kernel fork.
At current raspberry pi prices I'd just get an Odroid H3.
I picked one up recently, it's a pretty neat machine. The footprint is larger, but I doubt that matters for many people.
Can you post a link to this thin client PC? Is it new or used? How's Linux support for Wi-Fi? Thanks
Just search for (INSERT SELLER) Lenovo ThinkCentre M75q or M715q. They are great for Ceph-Clusters, disk-less stations or down-clocked pi-replacements...well just anything.
Linux works, also FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
Typical example here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185684535368?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DI...
Linux works, also FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
Typical example here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185684535368?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DI...
Quick warning about Lenovo systems, you should reconsider using them if you intend on swapping any cards inside of the system (like WiFi, for instance).
Many Lenovos are bios locked to prevent upgrading the system to either products that Lenovo doesn't personally sell or specific products that are in a hard-coded whitelist in the BIOS.
The system will boot loop with a warning message if it detects a non-whitelisted device attached to the PCIe bus.
I do not know if they have discontinued this practice, but if you want to, say, add a 10gig ethernet adapter to the device or upgrade the WiFi for use as a media pc you should check the specific system to see if that is an issue with it before buying this system and go with an HP or Dell or something first.
Many Lenovos are bios locked to prevent upgrading the system to either products that Lenovo doesn't personally sell or specific products that are in a hard-coded whitelist in the BIOS.
The system will boot loop with a warning message if it detects a non-whitelisted device attached to the PCIe bus.
I do not know if they have discontinued this practice, but if you want to, say, add a 10gig ethernet adapter to the device or upgrade the WiFi for use as a media pc you should check the specific system to see if that is an issue with it before buying this system and go with an HP or Dell or something first.
I'd add to this warning that Lenovo has a history of shipping malware infested systems often in exchange for money, even putting malware in UEFI so that even after reinstalling the OS your machine just reinfects itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo#Security_and_privacy_in...
[deleted]
Oh thanks for the warning, i never changed a card but good to know!
It's no problem. I only found out about it when I got a free old 3rd gen intel Lenovo minipc from work and spent $20 to get a better wifi card for it.
Apparently, the only solutions are to either use only approved lenovo devices for that specific hardware or to export, edit, and reimport the BIOS after removing the bootloop protections from it, which while feasible isn't worth the time and effort to me just to have a small PC to use as a media player on my TV.
Apparently, the only solutions are to either use only approved lenovo devices for that specific hardware or to export, edit, and reimport the BIOS after removing the bootloop protections from it, which while feasible isn't worth the time and effort to me just to have a small PC to use as a media player on my TV.
What I see here are 3 used computers for US$ 200 with the warning: “For Parts/Repair - Units DO NOT Power on”.
I don't see how that's comparable with a Pi in either price or reliably (or sanitation, really). Seems like buying other people's junk. I don't find compelling.
I don't see how that's comparable with a Pi in either price or reliably (or sanitation, really). Seems like buying other people's junk. I don't find compelling.
>I don't find compelling
Pussy! Turn it on with a fire-extinguisher next to you...whats the problem?
Pussy! Turn it on with a fire-extinguisher next to you...whats the problem?
I hope you’re not serious.
What can happen? A bit magic smoke?
Yes, aside from lost time and money.
You don't have the right mindset for things like that...you can leave now ;)
You kids can get back to playing with your expensive toys. We grown ups need to keep the world spinning.
Being arm is also an issue, as well as being Linux when you need to simulate windows specific stuff. Rpi with keyboard and case is not cheaper than even a not so vintage low end laptop (3-6yo).
Can you even run gns3 on a rpi? This is especially interesting when dealing with NACs and wireless clients (eap-*,.1x,client identification). Linux works too well sometimes in a lab, it will hapilly route traffic or have a trunk interface, the hostility of windows makes it a better (or rather required) lab client especially since you can just bridge linux VMs in my opinion.
Can you even run gns3 on a rpi? This is especially interesting when dealing with NACs and wireless clients (eap-*,.1x,client identification). Linux works too well sometimes in a lab, it will hapilly route traffic or have a trunk interface, the hostility of windows makes it a better (or rather required) lab client especially since you can just bridge linux VMs in my opinion.
I've seen Windows IoT running on RPi 3B…and the lags is…significant. As is the fact that it was done so that so that a C/C++ program could receive input from a touchscreen and an HID-emulator device, submit it to a database, and inspect the result. I would have expected a much more perfomant environment, that doesn't miss "keystrokes" and touches, and doesn't feel like I'm literally round-tripping the signal between Earth and Moon.
Raspberry Pi is currently being used as educational tools in computer networks laboratories in many university around the world, like Oxford and Yale, for hands-on education and learning of modern networking technology with software defined networking (SDN) and P4 [1],[2],[3],[4]. With readily available Ethernet port, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, it come default with multiple standard networking technology. If you want multi-port Ethernet just use one of the available USB ports with USB-to-Ethernet converter as being practices by the mentioned references.
The main points that are probably missing from the people here is that the low cost nature of RPI and it cheaper clones for examples Banana Pi (MediaTek ARM) and Lichee Pi (RISC-V) are great for networking labs [5],[6]. As of now, if you want to learn hands-on computer networking you go straight to the big vendors equipment from Cisco, Juniper, Huawei, etc. This is not the current practice for properly learning car driving or plane piloting where the new learners will start form the most basic vehicles. Starting learning with the big vendors is like learning to drive with a Mercedes car or piloting with a Boeing plane, where the normal practice is to use entry level Daihatsu or Caessna [7]. This article coming from big vendor like Cisco is a big endorsement for this sane approach from the industry albeit subtly.
[1]P4Pi: P4 on Raspberry Pi for Networking Education:
https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/soule/pubs/ccr2021.pdf
[2]P4Pi: P4 on Raspberry Pi for Networking Education (slides):
https://opennetworking.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2021-P...
[3] P4Pi codes:
https://github.com/p4lang/p4pi
[4] Building an Internet Router with P4Pi:
https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3493425.3502762
[5] Low Cost Banana Pi BPI-R2 Pro 5-Port Gigabit Ethernet Router Board:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28440718
[6] Lichee Pi 4A:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34137185
[7] Why the Cessna is such a badass plane (2019):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253067
The main points that are probably missing from the people here is that the low cost nature of RPI and it cheaper clones for examples Banana Pi (MediaTek ARM) and Lichee Pi (RISC-V) are great for networking labs [5],[6]. As of now, if you want to learn hands-on computer networking you go straight to the big vendors equipment from Cisco, Juniper, Huawei, etc. This is not the current practice for properly learning car driving or plane piloting where the new learners will start form the most basic vehicles. Starting learning with the big vendors is like learning to drive with a Mercedes car or piloting with a Boeing plane, where the normal practice is to use entry level Daihatsu or Caessna [7]. This article coming from big vendor like Cisco is a big endorsement for this sane approach from the industry albeit subtly.
[1]P4Pi: P4 on Raspberry Pi for Networking Education:
https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/soule/pubs/ccr2021.pdf
[2]P4Pi: P4 on Raspberry Pi for Networking Education (slides):
https://opennetworking.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/2021-P...
[3] P4Pi codes:
https://github.com/p4lang/p4pi
[4] Building an Internet Router with P4Pi:
https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3493425.3502762
[5] Low Cost Banana Pi BPI-R2 Pro 5-Port Gigabit Ethernet Router Board:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28440718
[6] Lichee Pi 4A:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34137185
[7] Why the Cessna is such a badass plane (2019):
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23253067
At this point, you're more likely to find an off-lease laptop running Linux. Bonus - for roughly the same price (assuming you buy a MicroSD card, power supply, case, etc), you'll get a screen/keyboard/trackpad, battery backup, a lot more performance, and a real SSD. There's nothing here that can't be done with any bog-standard Linux host.
As we learned in Europe in 2022, electricity isn't some infinite resource. When it gets rationed, the price goes way up.
A raspberry Pi costs up to 1€/month in electricity to keep running as a server, while any used computer will cost quite a bit more. When suggesting old hardware for server use, make sure to consider the total cost, not just the cost of the hardware itself.
A raspberry Pi costs up to 1€/month in electricity to keep running as a server, while any used computer will cost quite a bit more. When suggesting old hardware for server use, make sure to consider the total cost, not just the cost of the hardware itself.
It isnt 2005 anymore. Old hardware nowadays is "Lot of 5 LENOVO THINKPAD YOGA 260 i3-6100U 4GB Ram 128GB SSD Cracked Screens" coming down to $40 a pop. 2x TDP (15W vs 7.5 of rpi4) but at the same time >2x CPU power, >10x GPU power. Not to mention you get real SATA SSD storage, real DDR4 sodimm slot, keyboard, and battery backup.
A laptop I use for this function draws 10W on average, and that is without any additional tooling like:
https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/auto-cpufreq
https://github.com/AdnanHodzic/auto-cpufreq
TDP is not something you should look at.
It's just the top, not how low it can go on idle. My VM server has ~35W TDP but gets 20W with SSD/dual NIC and acting as WiFi accesspoint. CPU usage is less than half of that, at those levels motherboard is often the element with highest power consumption and it is hard to get data on which motherboard is most power efficient.
Probably easier with laptops as in theory you can just get run time on battery, battery size and calculate power usage off that.
It's just the top, not how low it can go on idle. My VM server has ~35W TDP but gets 20W with SSD/dual NIC and acting as WiFi accesspoint. CPU usage is less than half of that, at those levels motherboard is often the element with highest power consumption and it is hard to get data on which motherboard is most power efficient.
Probably easier with laptops as in theory you can just get run time on battery, battery size and calculate power usage off that.
Not anywhere in Europe. People tend to sell used stuff for more than the new. Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places.
I find that Microsoft Authorised Refurbishers are a good place to start to find cheap old corporate machines - eg I can typically get something like an Intel i5 8500T based Lenovo/Dell/HP mini PC with RAM and SSD for less than £200.
I actually bought a Lenovo M910Q with i5 6500T, 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM for ~£100 in the last year.
It'll absolutely demolish a Pi 4 at CPU & GPU performance, can take much more RAM than a Pi, idles at <10W on 230V mains, you get the bonuses of easy software compatibility as it just runs any mainstream Linux distro & and it runs x86_64 code, it has real storage interfaces (SATA & NVMe), and has an Intel NIC.
For home server uses, they're really nice machines.
I actually bought a Lenovo M910Q with i5 6500T, 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM for ~£100 in the last year.
It'll absolutely demolish a Pi 4 at CPU & GPU performance, can take much more RAM than a Pi, idles at <10W on 230V mains, you get the bonuses of easy software compatibility as it just runs any mainstream Linux distro & and it runs x86_64 code, it has real storage interfaces (SATA & NVMe), and has an Intel NIC.
For home server uses, they're really nice machines.
The keyword here is "cracked screens".
Right. And then go back to your gaming PC with the 250 watt GPU running inside. /s
UPS for small devices is an untapped niche. I don't understand what's going on with that. There're thousands of huge 220V UPS devices in the market and there're almost none 12V UPS devices for tiny devices like routers, raspberrys, etc.
Some people use power banks for that, but that's not really proper use and some power banks don't allow seamless power switch.
Some people use power banks for that, but that's not really proper use and some power banks don't allow seamless power switch.
There is UPS Pico [1] for rPi3/4 that does that job well + a bunch of other features (fan control, some extra IO, supercap+battery support, watchdog and few other).
There are also few simpler ones that do "just" supply power and "power good" signal.
There is also plenty of DC UPSes, although often targeting the industry, which means "expensive"
In-between is [2] OpenUPS but I didn't used it. It's just pretty niche product and niche is also one of the "it will be expensive" keywords.
Soo yeah, they are out there and work fine, go and buy one. Oh, don't want to spend more than rPi ? Well, that's the price of niche products, even if parts are not super expensive it need to cost enough for NRE costs to amortize.
Or, slap a power strip and few power supplies into normal UPS and call it good enough
* [1] https://pimodules.com/ups-pico-hv4-0b
* [2] https://www.mini-box.com/OpenUPS
There are also few simpler ones that do "just" supply power and "power good" signal.
There is also plenty of DC UPSes, although often targeting the industry, which means "expensive"
In-between is [2] OpenUPS but I didn't used it. It's just pretty niche product and niche is also one of the "it will be expensive" keywords.
Soo yeah, they are out there and work fine, go and buy one. Oh, don't want to spend more than rPi ? Well, that's the price of niche products, even if parts are not super expensive it need to cost enough for NRE costs to amortize.
Or, slap a power strip and few power supplies into normal UPS and call it good enough
* [1] https://pimodules.com/ups-pico-hv4-0b
* [2] https://www.mini-box.com/OpenUPS
Belkin makes a 12v UPS for residential gateway devices. Some ISPs here in the US have been distributing them with their equipment to consumers for several years. I use mine as power backup for devices in case of hurricanes and such.
I've been using a little 100wh mini 12v UPS from talentcell. I own three and am happy with them.
It has an important caveat though: both the USB and 12v outputs are unregulated, so the device you're feeding into must be able to handle a wider voltage range, or you can buy a fairly cheap ($15 or so) step up/down converter to put in-line with it.
It has an important caveat though: both the USB and 12v outputs are unregulated, so the device you're feeding into must be able to handle a wider voltage range, or you can buy a fairly cheap ($15 or so) step up/down converter to put in-line with it.
[deleted]
How does the average consumer feel about plugging something other than the OEM adapter into a router? Things always say "Use only the original power supply", maybe they underestimate people's intelligence and think they will be too afraid to put the UPS in between?
I'd really like an affordable 5v/12v UPS though. Maybe it will happen when more things adopt USB-C and there's more of a market for power banks designed for seamless switching.
I'd really like an affordable 5v/12v UPS though. Maybe it will happen when more things adopt USB-C and there's more of a market for power banks designed for seamless switching.
I'm using PowerWalker 12V DC UPS (which actually is just a 18650 cell) with my routers and it works fine, keeping the connectivity up for intermittent power shortages. In fact works much better for this purpose than cheap AC UPS I tried.
I recently have sold and put up for sale my Raspberry Pis. I kept one for an embedded project, but I am in general tired of their endless availability issues and terrible performance for general computing.
In place of them, I got a barebones Intel Nuc that I populated with some DDR4 and an M.2 NVMe drive I had laying around. The performance from the Core i5 is great and leaps ahead of the most powerful Pis, and the footprint and cost is only a little more than a fully heatsinked and encased Raspberry Pi. My Intel Nuc is running Linux Mint flawlessly so far.
In place of them, I got a barebones Intel Nuc that I populated with some DDR4 and an M.2 NVMe drive I had laying around. The performance from the Core i5 is great and leaps ahead of the most powerful Pis, and the footprint and cost is only a little more than a fully heatsinked and encased Raspberry Pi. My Intel Nuc is running Linux Mint flawlessly so far.
the problem for me is, intel NUC are EXTREMLY expensive. case in point
https://www.amazon.in/Intel-Core-Mini-NUC8i5BEH-500GB/dp/B07... (INR 52K or US$ 600) https://www.amazon.in/Intel-Performance-NUC11PAHI5-Thunderbo... (INR 42K or US$ 488)
or you can get a celeron https://www.amazon.in/Intel-NUC7CJYH-NUC-Kit-BOXNUC7CJYH/dp/... (INR 12K or US$ 139)
https://robu.in/product/raspberry-pi-3-model-a-with-official... (inr 2800 or US$32)
or https://robu.in/product/raspberry-pi-3-model-a/ (INR 2500 or US$29)
so the NUC are being sold at obscene prices....
i am very much interested in buying old tech because
1. it is cheaper and has seen a lot so it usually isnt flimsy. 2. no need for warranty as the local repair scene is pretty good with aftermarket spares readily available.
i broke 4-5 Pis last year because of a bad usb cable that was transferring data and i didnt realize until later the cause. anyway, i am stuck with pis with USB overcurrent problem.
https://www.amazon.in/Intel-Core-Mini-NUC8i5BEH-500GB/dp/B07... (INR 52K or US$ 600) https://www.amazon.in/Intel-Performance-NUC11PAHI5-Thunderbo... (INR 42K or US$ 488)
or you can get a celeron https://www.amazon.in/Intel-NUC7CJYH-NUC-Kit-BOXNUC7CJYH/dp/... (INR 12K or US$ 139)
https://robu.in/product/raspberry-pi-3-model-a-with-official... (inr 2800 or US$32)
or https://robu.in/product/raspberry-pi-3-model-a/ (INR 2500 or US$29)
so the NUC are being sold at obscene prices....
i am very much interested in buying old tech because
1. it is cheaper and has seen a lot so it usually isnt flimsy. 2. no need for warranty as the local repair scene is pretty good with aftermarket spares readily available.
i broke 4-5 Pis last year because of a bad usb cable that was transferring data and i didnt realize until later the cause. anyway, i am stuck with pis with USB overcurrent problem.
At least in the U.S., you can get refurbished Dell OptiPlex Micro and Lenovo ThinkCentre M Series PCs for just over $100. I opted for the moderately more expensive Intel Nuc because I could buy the barebones version since I had some spare memory laying around that I wanted to use up. Plus, I only needed one such computer for my server needs.
> so the NUC are being sold at obscene prices....
A question I keep asking is what happened to the cheap NUC's?
This question has been bothering me since the $199 J1900 NUC disappeared years back and was never replaced by a comparative low power and low cost NUC. Instead we got $400+ i3/5/7 NUC's and some silly $1200 NUC with a skull on it for gaming. They were at one point cost effective but that suddenly stopped.
Few weeks back I picked up an i5 NUC on sale for $300 from Newegg which is the lowest I've seen a quad core NUC in a long time (maybe I'm not looking hard enough). It's hooked to my TV and is just another desktop that also happens to play Hulu.
A question I keep asking is what happened to the cheap NUC's?
This question has been bothering me since the $199 J1900 NUC disappeared years back and was never replaced by a comparative low power and low cost NUC. Instead we got $400+ i3/5/7 NUC's and some silly $1200 NUC with a skull on it for gaming. They were at one point cost effective but that suddenly stopped.
Few weeks back I picked up an i5 NUC on sale for $300 from Newegg which is the lowest I've seen a quad core NUC in a long time (maybe I'm not looking hard enough). It's hooked to my TV and is just another desktop that also happens to play Hulu.
NOS (New Old Stock) NUCs can be had for really nice prices if you're patient and don't mind having mildly outdated hardware (which will likely run circles around rPi anyway).
If you don't mind buying used, the prices drop even further.
If you don't mind buying used, the prices drop even further.
Look for used Lenovo ThinkCentre M75q or M715q...thank me later ;)
Pi makes sense if you need the IO it provides, if you don't, well, that's just a shitty computer
Yeah right now there's zero reason to buy a raspberry pi compared to what else is available for the performance. The scalpers are selling these raspberry pis at absurd prices. When new supply becomes available, I'll reconsider it.
I much prefer working on my fast Ryzen "NUC" to a Pi4, but for electronics tinkering, I miss it having decent memory-mapped GPIO+SPI+I2C. From time to time, I search around in case someone's done a nice PCIe (or M.2?) card with a handful of I2C and SPI buses plus a bunch of GPIOs, but haven't found anything decent.
Ironically, I'd be happy to pay much more than the cost of a entire Pi4 to get the same GPIO as an add-on for a fast, reliable amd64 machine.
Ironically, I'd be happy to pay much more than the cost of a entire Pi4 to get the same GPIO as an add-on for a fast, reliable amd64 machine.
If you need to use the GPIOs, have size or power consumption restrictions then the Pi makes total sense. But for general purpose computing like a run of the mill home server, a low power x86 can replace a handful of Pis more efficiently.
A $3 esp32 can do a lot for a microcontroller
And you can probably do away with a 1$ ESP8266 for your GPIO needs.
The idea was that a Pi makes sense sometimes, and other times it doesn't. I know people using a Pi for one GPIO pin. This can be done just fine with an Arduino or an ESP8266.
I for one run a Pi with PiHole, Wireguard, Unifi controller, NVR, MQTT, etc. and a few more GPIO trinkets like Zwave. No ESP could practically handle all that, an x86 would be overkill in terms of size, noise, temperature, and power consumption.
On the other hand I use ESPs for things like "smartening up" my door intercom where even a Pi Zero would be overkill.
I for one run a Pi with PiHole, Wireguard, Unifi controller, NVR, MQTT, etc. and a few more GPIO trinkets like Zwave. No ESP could practically handle all that, an x86 would be overkill in terms of size, noise, temperature, and power consumption.
On the other hand I use ESPs for things like "smartening up" my door intercom where even a Pi Zero would be overkill.
> No ESP could practically handle all that
You probably would be surprised what they can handle... See these examples:
https://github.com/ciniml/WireGuard-ESP32-Arduino
https://github.com/martin-ger/esp32_nat_router
You probably would be surprised what they can handle... See these examples:
https://github.com/ciniml/WireGuard-ESP32-Arduino
https://github.com/martin-ger/esp32_nat_router
You mean used, right?
I must have a lower tolerance than most, but the idea of typing on a used keyboard seems gross. Besides, how do I know how well was it handled? That the power supply will not fry a few weeks in, just after I set everything up.
I have a Raspberry Pi running nonstop for over a decade. No fans, just working.
I must have a lower tolerance than most, but the idea of typing on a used keyboard seems gross. Besides, how do I know how well was it handled? That the power supply will not fry a few weeks in, just after I set everything up.
I have a Raspberry Pi running nonstop for over a decade. No fans, just working.
Fwiw - I've been buying used and refurbished ThinkPads for a decade. Maybe because they're typically used for business but they've aLl been in immaculate shape (no gritty keyboards) and have them lasted for many many years. None of them actually failed me, I just eventually moved on. I still use a t420 and two t420s ThinkPads which I got used and are now coming to 11 years old. I just got a t440 which is probably 8-9 years old.
Refurbished from Lenovo itself? Or third party?
First party refurbished are usually as good as new.
First party refurbished are usually as good as new.
Both, plus used from Kijiji or Facebook marketplace
Agreed. I recently was going to build a home K8s cluster for fun, ended up adding another old rackmount Atom server instead, and swapping in Noctua fans ( https://www.neilvandyke.org/kubernetes/ ).
It takes up more space, and uses more power, but no paying scalper prices for hardware dependent on a dodgy microSD, wallwart, USB SATA adapter, improvised chassis, etc.
It takes up more space, and uses more power, but no paying scalper prices for hardware dependent on a dodgy microSD, wallwart, USB SATA adapter, improvised chassis, etc.
I recently started using an old Fujitsu Primergy s100 1u server with a Xeon cpu. I was supprised it usually runs on moderate load at (self reported) 35W (including two spinning hdds and a max-clocked Google edgetpu). For me this was a pleasant surprise.
There is a virtually unlimited supply of old corporate PCs, the mini ones being most interesting. https://computers.woot.com/plus/microsoft-authorized-refurbi...
I just clicked and all of the computers for sale on that page appear to cost between $200 and $460, even for older ones.
Better than buying brand-new perhaps but not what I would call a great deal and certainly not a replacement for a pi4 in terms of price and power consumption.
Better than buying brand-new perhaps but not what I would call a great deal and certainly not a replacement for a pi4 in terms of price and power consumption.
Especially the Chromeboxes, some of them have i7s. Unlocking them is a bit of a hassle but once you get the hang of it it's only a few minutes.
Something like this but for Europe?
or get beagleboard or other open source hardware alternative. Why isn't all hardware open source (without out firmware blob)
Except I tried that recently, thunderbolt doesn’t work properly, Ethernet adapters with no support, and no sound.
I remembered where we were preparing to migrate our core routers I loaded up the original (256MB) rPi with BIRD [1] and some Perl script to load and mangle a bit the "internet" (dump of all rotes on RIPE collector) to it, 500k something routes. Then used it as "The Internet", serving BGP to the new routers under test.
I was quite surprised how not only it managed to fit, it loaded routes to Linux kernel much faster than the new shiny expensive Juniper box managed to.
I have resisted temptation to put it in black box with red LED on the top. * [1] https://bird.network.cz/
I'd actually love "enterprise raspberry", some small machine that we could shove 3-6 of them in 1RU, but once you add enterprise tax and all of the doodas to make it manageable (OOB management), it gets expensive enough to rival "just an old server".
I was quite surprised how not only it managed to fit, it loaded routes to Linux kernel much faster than the new shiny expensive Juniper box managed to.
I have resisted temptation to put it in black box with red LED on the top. * [1] https://bird.network.cz/
I'd actually love "enterprise raspberry", some small machine that we could shove 3-6 of them in 1RU, but once you add enterprise tax and all of the doodas to make it manageable (OOB management), it gets expensive enough to rival "just an old server".
The biggest use in a lab is missing imo - as cheap kvm. Tinypilot/pikvm.
Assuming you already have a pi (lol) that's a really cheap accessory upgrade. Just needs a hdmi capture dongle and usb-c power/data splitter.
Around 30 bucks of gear. Commercial kvm...500+
Assuming you already have a pi (lol) that's a really cheap accessory upgrade. Just needs a hdmi capture dongle and usb-c power/data splitter.
Around 30 bucks of gear. Commercial kvm...500+
> Just needs a hdmi capture dongle and USB-C power/data splitter.
Do you recommend any? The one that I saw (recommended by PIKVM DIY site) is 40+ USD just for the capture dongle
Do you recommend any? The one that I saw (recommended by PIKVM DIY site) is 40+ USD just for the capture dongle
This one - there are a billion knockoffs so anything on amazon that looks similar has a good chance of working
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0B6CBBP8R
Also got myself a hdmi to DP cable but pure hdmi seems more stable.
The usb power thing was a bit more tricky. I went with this one
https://www.tindie.com/products/8086net/usb-cpwr-splitter/
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0B6CBBP8R
Also got myself a hdmi to DP cable but pure hdmi seems more stable.
The usb power thing was a bit more tricky. I went with this one
https://www.tindie.com/products/8086net/usb-cpwr-splitter/
What about the competitors, Orange Pi, Banana Pi, Rock Pi and others? Now that that Raspberry Pi's are usually sold out and difficult to get. In what case would you need an actual Raspberry Pi, and a competing product would not do?
I had a look at this just this week. One problem; all the io libraries out there rely on special functionality in the broadcom chips and thus don't work with the knock-off boards. Meaning anything that needs gpio/spi/i2c/serial can't run on a clone board without a code rewrite.
Support. All Chinese competitors are build and released into the world with no software support.
What you want is retired laptop or thin client with optional arduino clone plugged into USB/serial for low level IO.
What you want is retired laptop or thin client with optional arduino clone plugged into USB/serial for low level IO.
Maybe something like a Lattepanda that's an x64 with an Arudino coprocessor already on the board.
The article recommends ISC DHCP. If you want to follow the article please note, that "ISC has announced the end of life for ISC DHCP as of the end of 2022." https://www.isc.org/dhcp/
I'm surprised they didn't recommend dnsmasq to begin with, it's a lot lighter on resources which could be important with low-end machines, and with DNS and DHCP services baked in to one process you don't need to worry about configuring hungrier services like dhcpd and BIND to read each other's state.
The only reason I'd recommend dhcpd/bind over dnsmasq for a small lab is if you are trying to familiarize yourself with the former pair for use in larger networks with more expansive requirements.
The only reason I'd recommend dhcpd/bind over dnsmasq for a small lab is if you are trying to familiarize yourself with the former pair for use in larger networks with more expansive requirements.
I think it has to do with this: "In fact, many of the example DHCP configuration guides from Cisco use ISC DHCP as the reference server". They just have 20+ years of training materials using ISC DHCP. And to be fair, the article is from march and ISC DHCP only got deprecated in october - while it already wasn't a good choice for beginners for many years.
Now that the RasPi is only available at high prices, maybe Cisco will add it as a branded 1U product, at enterprise pricing. :)
I am hoping this for becoming available:
https://sipeed.com/licheepi4a
https://sipeed.com/licheepi4a
The Raspberry Pi feels a bit like reading some crypto(currency) papers these days. A lot of great theoretical benefits to be excited about, but ultimately it simply doesn't make sense to use when so many of the promises (price, availability, power, not having out of touch corporate marketing) fall short.
Isn't availability of any cryptocurrency 100% always?
If anyone is looking for projects/uses for raspberry pis, they are great for DIY home monitoring:
https://jeskin.net/blog/raspberry-cam-home-monitoring/
https://jeskin.net/blog/raspberry-cam-home-monitoring/
Nice, I did almost the exact same project a couple years ago, but using an almost entirely different software stack... I used imgcomp for taking and comparing the pictures, Syncthing for sending them up to my vps, and gotify to ping my phone when motion is detected.
It's a bit of a duct-taped solution at the moment but it's been working flawlessly to monitor a property without wifi, I hope to clean it up into something I can present to the world eventually.
It's a bit of a duct-taped solution at the moment but it's been working flawlessly to monitor a property without wifi, I hope to clean it up into something I can present to the world eventually.
I think duct-taped solutions are still worth presenting to the world :)
I’ll definitely read your write up if you get the chance to work on it!
I’ll definitely read your write up if you get the chance to work on it!
In 2016 I got a cheap webcam (D-Link 930L) and configured it to ftp motion-triggered images to a pi B which would pass them on to me via Telegram.
Eh, you'd be better off with actual security camera + some OSS software to write it on you NAS .
After you buy rPi, camera, IR light, case, power supply it will cost same or more
After you buy rPi, camera, IR light, case, power supply it will cost same or more
How do you self host git?
You run a git server on a public facing machine:
https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-The-Protoco...
I run mine on the linode hosting my blog. The web interface is generated by stagit.
https://jeskin.net/blog/self-hosting-git-with-stagit/
https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-on-the-Server-The-Protoco...
I run mine on the linode hosting my blog. The web interface is generated by stagit.
https://jeskin.net/blog/self-hosting-git-with-stagit/
Great post, thank you
Another perhaps lesser known way is to "git add origin /path/to/repo".
For example works great on networked file share with no proper git server required.
For example works great on networked file share with no proper git server required.
you got some good answers, just adding this as a you-should-know.
you can simply self-host git in any ssh server as long as you don't need to share access.
in the remote server just "git --bare init" a directory, in your local computer "git remote add myorigin ssh://server/path/to/dir" and start pushing.
you could also do the same thing for a dropbox directory adding a file:// remote.
git is just some files lying around, no weird binary formats or servers needed, it's brilliant
you can simply self-host git in any ssh server as long as you don't need to share access.
in the remote server just "git --bare init" a directory, in your local computer "git remote add myorigin ssh://server/path/to/dir" and start pushing.
you could also do the same thing for a dropbox directory adding a file:// remote.
git is just some files lying around, no weird binary formats or servers needed, it's brilliant
Oh neat. Thanks!
One way is to run a self hosted gitlab-ce instance in docker.
Why do we need a "network lab"? Is networking too difficult to easily get right these days?
you don't need a network lab. this article is not about that. it's not targeting you if you don't have a network lab. feel free to skip it.
but if you have one, this article might interest you.
similarly, an article about having a snail in your aquarium is not about you, needing an aquarium. skip that too if you don't have an aquarium.
but if you have one, this article might interest you.
similarly, an article about having a snail in your aquarium is not about you, needing an aquarium. skip that too if you don't have an aquarium.
It's coz people want to test stuff before running it on prod ? Why you are perplexed by that ?
You know what's even smaller, more compact, more reliable, and cheaper than an RPi? A fucking VM. I don't understand the obsession with these stupid things.
If one really wants small form factor and lower power consumption why not choose a pine64, orange pi or radxa boards? Yes, certain features like hdmi(on Quartz64), or hardware accelerated video encode/decode is only supported in older kernels, but if one needs a generic network box even fairly new Linux kernels work.
So in conclusion, it is time to sell our remaining Rpi's to scalpers that want them and move to other things.