Cannabis use linked to anxiety diagnoses, worsened anxiety disorders(globalnews.ca)
globalnews.ca
Cannabis use linked to anxiety diagnoses, worsened anxiety disorders
https://globalnews.ca/news/10275463/cannabis-anxiety-ontario-study/
204 comments
So the study is actually called "Development of an anxiety disorder following an emergency department visit due to cannabis use" and you can check it out here: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5...
The study isn't establishing a direct link between cannabis and anxiety, it's looking very specifically at anxiety diagnoses following an ER visit. The findings are interpreted in the study as the following: "ED visits for cannabis use were associated with an increased risk of having an incident healthcare visit for an anxiety disorder, particularly in young males."
What exactly that means on the broader context of cannabis use isn't the focus of the study, but it invites further research to explore the implications of their findings.
The study isn't establishing a direct link between cannabis and anxiety, it's looking very specifically at anxiety diagnoses following an ER visit. The findings are interpreted in the study as the following: "ED visits for cannabis use were associated with an increased risk of having an incident healthcare visit for an anxiety disorder, particularly in young males."
What exactly that means on the broader context of cannabis use isn't the focus of the study, but it invites further research to explore the implications of their findings.
I know a family with some sort of genetic disposition to anxiety disorders. Every generation up until recent times had at least one functioning alcoholic in it. The second to last was the beloved family matriarch, not the black sheep. Trying to drown out the maelstrom.
It’s called self medication, and people have a sense of when something is wrong with them without a doctor telling them (or for that matter, believing them). Neurodivergent people know this especially well, since “all in your head” was the ultimate dismissal of medical complaints up until the last decade.
Might as well study hospitalizations for stimulants and tendency to impulsiveness and intrusive thoughts. People with ADHD have been self-medicating with stimulants since the trade routes brought tea and coffee ( and probably with beer and wine before that).
I maintain that the original motto for Coca Cola (with real coca leaves) was a nod to high functioning ADHD customers. The Thinking Man’s Drink. Most measurable gains in cognitive ability from mild stimulants are enjoyed by the neurodivergent. But if we are 10% of the human population, that’s a demographic even Apple could love.
It’s called self medication, and people have a sense of when something is wrong with them without a doctor telling them (or for that matter, believing them). Neurodivergent people know this especially well, since “all in your head” was the ultimate dismissal of medical complaints up until the last decade.
Might as well study hospitalizations for stimulants and tendency to impulsiveness and intrusive thoughts. People with ADHD have been self-medicating with stimulants since the trade routes brought tea and coffee ( and probably with beer and wine before that).
I maintain that the original motto for Coca Cola (with real coca leaves) was a nod to high functioning ADHD customers. The Thinking Man’s Drink. Most measurable gains in cognitive ability from mild stimulants are enjoyed by the neurodivergent. But if we are 10% of the human population, that’s a demographic even Apple could love.
This begs the question, which is whether self-medication with cannabis makes anxiety worse, rather than better, for most people who try it. It might, or it might not, establishing to what degree the correlation is causal is fairly important.
I'd guess that it makes it better at first, worse in the long run. Depression and anxiety are known Cannabis withdrawal symptoms, so it seems like drinking to cure a hangover. There's a great Huberman episode on Canabis/THC.
> Huberman episode on Canabis/THC.
You mean the same episode where he claimed that something like 25% of pregnant mothers use Cannabis without providing any sources?
I'm not saying Huberman has to be right about everything, but I think he just cherrypicks too many studies, sometimes overestimates the value of animal research, and, once in a blue moon, just completely makes up stats to fit his narrative.
His on wikipedia page even says,
> Huberman has promoted anti-sunscreen views on his podcast, saying he's "as scared of sunscreen as I am of melanoma", and claiming that sunscreen molecules can be found in neurons 10 years after application; without providing any evidence.
I think his intentions are good, but I sometimes question his intentions when he never fails to mention that you can also use the code Huberman to get 25% off your first order of Athletic Greens.
You mean the same episode where he claimed that something like 25% of pregnant mothers use Cannabis without providing any sources?
I'm not saying Huberman has to be right about everything, but I think he just cherrypicks too many studies, sometimes overestimates the value of animal research, and, once in a blue moon, just completely makes up stats to fit his narrative.
His on wikipedia page even says,
> Huberman has promoted anti-sunscreen views on his podcast, saying he's "as scared of sunscreen as I am of melanoma", and claiming that sunscreen molecules can be found in neurons 10 years after application; without providing any evidence.
I think his intentions are good, but I sometimes question his intentions when he never fails to mention that you can also use the code Huberman to get 25% off your first order of Athletic Greens.
I specifically referred to this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCbqfBAhmPY. I do not recall him talking about pregnant mothers using Cannabis. Do you have a source (video link, ideally with timestamp) for that?
If you can find the full episode, and not just the clip you provided, the timestamp is at 02:14:08.
Let me know if you are having trouble finding the full video. I do not want to search it at work, so I cannot link it now.
Let me know if you are having trouble finding the full video. I do not want to search it at work, so I cannot link it now.
I can tell you from experience that it is exactly that. It depends quite a bit on the variety and dose but overall, this is how it feels.
When you take it, everything is great, the next day there is the leftover that makes it a "chill" day but then it slowly goes away and anxiety comes back stronger the following days. At 3-4 days you deal with withdrawal a bit depending on how much you consumed which may increase anxiety or not depending on factors (experience, current situation, etc). I would say you get back to baseline after about 5 days to a week, which is quite long!
Cannabis probably doesn't cause anxiety on its own, but definitely do not really help the case for anxious people, in the long term. Unless you want to consider being "high" every day and for quite long. So, using cannabis to treat anxiety is a pretty bad idea but from my point of the view the biggest problem is the cognitive performance penalty you get from using cannabis and the problem is largely compounded by the fact that you do not feel that way at all when you are under influence or after (up to 2 full days after in my experience). Yet I can attest that the impact is very real, and it is quite easy to demonstrate if you have high level activities where you can collect stats (video games are great for that).
Cannabis and anxiety definitely have a relation, but it is really not the principal concern to have. I wish it would be legal everywhere so people could talk about it openly...
When you take it, everything is great, the next day there is the leftover that makes it a "chill" day but then it slowly goes away and anxiety comes back stronger the following days. At 3-4 days you deal with withdrawal a bit depending on how much you consumed which may increase anxiety or not depending on factors (experience, current situation, etc). I would say you get back to baseline after about 5 days to a week, which is quite long!
Cannabis probably doesn't cause anxiety on its own, but definitely do not really help the case for anxious people, in the long term. Unless you want to consider being "high" every day and for quite long. So, using cannabis to treat anxiety is a pretty bad idea but from my point of the view the biggest problem is the cognitive performance penalty you get from using cannabis and the problem is largely compounded by the fact that you do not feel that way at all when you are under influence or after (up to 2 full days after in my experience). Yet I can attest that the impact is very real, and it is quite easy to demonstrate if you have high level activities where you can collect stats (video games are great for that).
Cannabis and anxiety definitely have a relation, but it is really not the principal concern to have. I wish it would be legal everywhere so people could talk about it openly...
Huberman is the joe rogan of people who think reading a dozen inconclusive studies solves life's mysteries.
So Joe Rogan minus 11 studies?
Personally, if I went into an already mildly anxious situation (like going to work or driving, etc) pot would make me more anxious. At the end of the day, it made me less anxious and helped me unwind. It also helped me focus on coding when I was working on my own projects and/or learning. It's been a long time since I've indulged since I don't live in a free state, so it might be different now that I'm older.
It could be, it also could just be that desperate people are drawn to a drug that's illegal but less 'illegal' in the court of public opinion than other drugs.
It's probably both.
It's probably both.
Talking about the ADHD thing, there's a similar problem with some research that claims stimulants cause Parkinson's disease. The study authors didn't seem to account for the fact that people with more severe ADHD would be more likely to be treated with stimulants and that severity of ADHD could instead be the causal factor.
Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do.
A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.
A more accurate headline might read: People with anxiety disorders who take cannabis may unnecessarily visit the ER.
> Going to an ER after taking cannabis seems like something only someone with an existing anxiety disorder might do.
Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
Twenty or thirty years ago, I'd have agreed with you on this, but potency that's normal today wouldn't even have been a dream back then. If you think that makes no difference, I'm here to tell you you are wrong.
You both are correct, I've seen it countless times. Folks sometimes don't admit even to themselves how insecure and anxious they are. And THC will highlight that, sometimes a bit, sometimes massively. Same with alcohol, other drugs, intense stressful situations and so on.
If you are not anxious, this is no story, this won't bulge even after decades of copious consumption (some very close folks fall here and only here, no exception ever heard of).
Now if you are completely clueless or just a (again clueless) kid and say eat 5 space cakes to show off, yeah this will not be a nice story. 5-10 hours of catatonic despair will leave some mark, but this id self-inflicted harm due to stupidity, many wonderful harms and deaths have been caused by very same thing and if we want bans due to that, alcohol should be the first in line by huge margin.
Educate from childhood, regulate (age, potency, how much daily, optimize for harmless consumption of quality products without impurities), but otherwise let folks do their thing. Anything else leads long term to worse results for whole society, any gut feeling is easily beaten by long term statistics.
If you are not anxious, this is no story, this won't bulge even after decades of copious consumption (some very close folks fall here and only here, no exception ever heard of).
Now if you are completely clueless or just a (again clueless) kid and say eat 5 space cakes to show off, yeah this will not be a nice story. 5-10 hours of catatonic despair will leave some mark, but this id self-inflicted harm due to stupidity, many wonderful harms and deaths have been caused by very same thing and if we want bans due to that, alcohol should be the first in line by huge margin.
Educate from childhood, regulate (age, potency, how much daily, optimize for harmless consumption of quality products without impurities), but otherwise let folks do their thing. Anything else leads long term to worse results for whole society, any gut feeling is easily beaten by long term statistics.
Oh, it's nothing anyone can't get through with a little help from someone who can take a broader perspective. That's a lot harder to come by these days than should be, or at least than is healthy for primates as social as we. Stronger communities would yield fewer such ER visits, too.
I don't advocate a ban; Prohibition is a salutary example and it would be worse today for all involved. But I also don't like to see anyone talk about any drug, and certainly not this one, as entirely benign.
I don't advocate a ban; Prohibition is a salutary example and it would be worse today for all involved. But I also don't like to see anyone talk about any drug, and certainly not this one, as entirely benign.
I constantly see this, but haven't people been making concentrates for 1000s of years? I imagine ancient Nepali hash would probably rock a lot of people's world still to this day.
Sure, but Nepali hash was being taken in a much different cultural context (religious, often) by people who were generally very prepared for its consequences.
The problem I have with studies like this is that the implied scoping really distorts any conclusions that could be drawn. People who don't go to the doctor - by definition - don't get diagnosed with anything.
Finding causality is hard and this study has so many hidden confounders that even implying causality from weed to anxiety disorder is bullshit.
Anecdotally, the only people I know that ended up in ED due to weed either took it unknowingly or have Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome from heavy heavy usage. Surely someone with a tendency for anxiety is more likely to seek medical help.
I know cannabis smokers who have anxiety issues, but it isn't obvious whether their tendency for anxiety leads them to smoking. I'm ignoring temporary anxiety. Disclosure: not a pot smoker.
Anecdotally, the only people I know that ended up in ED due to weed either took it unknowingly or have Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome from heavy heavy usage. Surely someone with a tendency for anxiety is more likely to seek medical help.
I know cannabis smokers who have anxiety issues, but it isn't obvious whether their tendency for anxiety leads them to smoking. I'm ignoring temporary anxiety. Disclosure: not a pot smoker.
What does it mean to visit an ER for cannnabis? Wouldn’t that typically be an anxiety attack in the first place?
If you've never had a panic attack before, the first one is easy to mistake for something a lot more dangerous.
During a mental health first aid course, I remember being told those mistakes can (admittedly rarely) happen in the other direction too. ie someone thinking they were having a panic attack actually having a heart attack instead.
The advice was to go call an ambulance anyway for someone having a serious panic attack. But for what it's worth, that advice was given somewhere where calling ambulances won't cost you.
The advice was to go call an ambulance anyway for someone having a serious panic attack. But for what it's worth, that advice was given somewhere where calling ambulances won't cost you.
A friend of my father unfortunately had a similar issue. Complained of acidity in the morning, dead from a heart attack by afternoon. It's much better to be over-cautious in such cases.
The key word here is father. If you're in your 20s or 30s, chances of it being heart attack instead of panic attack are incredibly low.
While I mostly agree, I myself unfortunately very likely experienced pericarditis after my covid shot. Worst pain I've had in a long time, but I was "sure" it was just gas and "couldn't be a heart issue because it's been going on for x hours or else I'd have been dead". I wish diagnostics was easier for health & heart conditions.
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I experienced this personally about 3 years. I had a panic attack so bad I didn't understand what was happening. Cue 3AM ambulance ride to the ER and all that. What was crazy was that when they did the tests in the ER, the main biomarker they look for a heart attack was mildly elevated. Higher than you'd like. But - barely - in the diagnostic range. Three days later, after a battery starting at ECG, and continuing through a full stress test and heart cath I was given a clean bill of health and sent home.
Elevated troponin? If so I had a very similar experience.
I had a random episode of afib about 10 years ago and my EKG has been known to make doctors nervous (I've been told that its strange but apparently its "normal" for me). After the afib episode, I became very paranoid about my heart rhythm and I think the paranoia exacerbated a previously latent anxiety issue. One day the paranoia became so bad that I thought I was having another afib episode but I wasn't 100% sure. I was self aware enough to know that I was mild hypochondriac and that it was likely that nothing was wrong. It was a Sunday so I went an urgent care. I figured they would check my heart, tell me everything was fine and it would put my mind at ease. They gave me and EKG and when urgent care doc saw it, he told me to go to the hospital immediately.
Long story short. The ER doctor thought everything was fine and was going to release me until my troponin levels came back elevated. I was put in ICU, given an ECG, and hearth cath. They didn't fine anything and released me. My anxiety became a lot worse after that. A few days later I went back to the ER. They checked my troponin levels and they elevated again (they dropped over the course of the first hospital stay) so I was admitted again. This time I did a full heart MRI. They didn't find anything. No signs of heart attack or heart damage (which high troponin is supposed to be an indicator of).
My anxiety was almost debilitating after that. Took me years to recover.
I had a random episode of afib about 10 years ago and my EKG has been known to make doctors nervous (I've been told that its strange but apparently its "normal" for me). After the afib episode, I became very paranoid about my heart rhythm and I think the paranoia exacerbated a previously latent anxiety issue. One day the paranoia became so bad that I thought I was having another afib episode but I wasn't 100% sure. I was self aware enough to know that I was mild hypochondriac and that it was likely that nothing was wrong. It was a Sunday so I went an urgent care. I figured they would check my heart, tell me everything was fine and it would put my mind at ease. They gave me and EKG and when urgent care doc saw it, he told me to go to the hospital immediately.
Long story short. The ER doctor thought everything was fine and was going to release me until my troponin levels came back elevated. I was put in ICU, given an ECG, and hearth cath. They didn't fine anything and released me. My anxiety became a lot worse after that. A few days later I went back to the ER. They checked my troponin levels and they elevated again (they dropped over the course of the first hospital stay) so I was admitted again. This time I did a full heart MRI. They didn't find anything. No signs of heart attack or heart damage (which high troponin is supposed to be an indicator of).
My anxiety was almost debilitating after that. Took me years to recover.
That sounds familiar?
I even had a little scare about a decade ago when a little transient tachycardia showed up during a sleep study.
Yeah, anxiety has not returned to baseline. COVID has certainly not helped. I haven’t caught it - but I am medically… complicated and a lot of my stuff is respiratory. I mask when I can, which helps but one can only do so much. At least I have a sympathetic GP so I have Ativan for when things are bad now.
It’s a hell of a feedback loop. When I’m super anxious - surprise surprise - my HR and BP are way up (and if I’ve had to use my asthma meds… oh lawd.) thus they want to keep you because you’re not “normal”. Want that stuff to come down? Gimme something nice to relax me, and let me sleep for 5 or 6 hours without a bunch of leads on or someone waking me up every minutes to stick a thermometer under my tongue.
I even had a little scare about a decade ago when a little transient tachycardia showed up during a sleep study.
Yeah, anxiety has not returned to baseline. COVID has certainly not helped. I haven’t caught it - but I am medically… complicated and a lot of my stuff is respiratory. I mask when I can, which helps but one can only do so much. At least I have a sympathetic GP so I have Ativan for when things are bad now.
It’s a hell of a feedback loop. When I’m super anxious - surprise surprise - my HR and BP are way up (and if I’ve had to use my asthma meds… oh lawd.) thus they want to keep you because you’re not “normal”. Want that stuff to come down? Gimme something nice to relax me, and let me sleep for 5 or 6 hours without a bunch of leads on or someone waking me up every minutes to stick a thermometer under my tongue.
Indeed, while not cannabis related, I visited the ER once due to a panic attack (which I did't know at the time). My combination of high heart rate, mild abdominal pain, and a low grade fever triggered their sepsis protocol. This constellation of symptoms caused me to spiral more and eventually I was discharged with nothing more than some chill pills and constipation.
Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome? Asthma attack? Being way too high?
Just some guesses.
Just some guesses.
Some consequences of illegal substances are things like "lack of standard dosage" and "lack of consumer education."
Someone who has never taken cannabis before, accidentally not realizing they've consumed too much, not knowing how to handle it, and wondering if they're okay, and calling 911 or going to the ER, is not an unfamiliar story.
Someone who has never taken cannabis before, accidentally not realizing they've consumed too much, not knowing how to handle it, and wondering if they're okay, and calling 911 or going to the ER, is not an unfamiliar story.
The only I've heard about:
- psychosis
- green out/being absolutely ripped, and found by others, who in turn will take you to the ER.
- psychosis
- green out/being absolutely ripped, and found by others, who in turn will take you to the ER.
Also, what's the base rate of developing an anxiety disorder?
NIH says:
> An estimated 19.1% of U.S. adults had any anxiety disorder in the past year.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disor...
That's pretty high already, and I imagine the base rates for anxiety developing among "people who have to be hospitalized for any reason" are much higher than the general pop.
NIH says:
> An estimated 19.1% of U.S. adults had any anxiety disorder in the past year.
https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/any-anxiety-disor...
That's pretty high already, and I imagine the base rates for anxiety developing among "people who have to be hospitalized for any reason" are much higher than the general pop.
Am I right in seeing that the data referenced in that article was collected between 2001-2004? If so, I wonder how that compares to today. I suspect we'd see much higher numbers for data collected 2019-2023, given the pandemic and associated garbage fires.
> people who visited an emergency room for cannabis use
?
?
it's not uncommon for naive (first-time) consumers, especially of edibles, to have intense reactions that lead to ER visits; I suspect that many of those are just folks who have no idea what is going on and interpret the feeling as being dangerous. IIRC the symptoms often include racing heart, intense paranoia, and a general feeling of lack of control.
Also the ER is the first line of treatment for many individuals.
Also the ER is the first line of treatment for many individuals.
Most people wouldn’t visit an ER for cannabis unless they already had some anxiety disorder that lead to insane amounts of anxiety.
That's a strange thing to say, why do you think that? I know a lot of people who don't have anxiety disorders who had an anxiety attack when they first got high, and yes they might think they need to go to the hospital. The physical experience of weed can feel like you're dying
Most people know you can’t die from cannabis no matter what so in my experience they just sleep through it. I’m assuming people with anxiety disorders can’t rationally think through this scenario when they have taken too much and end up going to the ER.
yes, its bunk science as usual. soft sciences cannoy isolate the variables necessary to make evidence supported conclusions. They are only opinions.
What this study says to me is that emergency rooms cause the anxiety disorders. If you visit the ER and mention you have consumed any illegal substance, that information is entered into your medical record and can be used against you by the government later. ER's also try to force people into "treatment" and social programs that they cannot participate in if they use cannabis.
What this study says to me is that emergency rooms cause the anxiety disorders. If you visit the ER and mention you have consumed any illegal substance, that information is entered into your medical record and can be used against you by the government later. ER's also try to force people into "treatment" and social programs that they cannot participate in if they use cannabis.
This study isn't "bunk science", nor is medicine a "soft science". It's just silly to apply your own government paranoia to the 12 million people in the study cohort without rational reason to do so.
"government paranoia" makes a person a historian. What I said and the consequences of it, are fact. Feel free to try yourself. Perhaps read some history on the FBI, war on drugs, ATF, etc. It's all on wikipedia and well sourced from those orgs themselves.
Studying 12 million people and controlling the variables properly is not possible, thats why it's a "soft science" study that cannot honestly make any good conclusions. There is no version of this kind of study that can produce good results because the details necessary make that scale impossible.
I'd be interested in reading about some of what you describe in more detail. Can you provide any links to things?
I smoked all throughout my teens and twenties. Once I hit my 30s, smoking would give me insane anxiety and, occasionally, full blown panic attacks. Obviously, this is very anecdotal and may have to do with other factors in my life (increased responsibilities to worry about as you get older, kids, etc.).
It got to the point where I asked myself why I was even doing it if it was no longer fun or relaxing in any way.
People who love cannabis think it's the cure for everything. While I don't doubt its medicinal uses, it's definitely not for everyone.
It got to the point where I asked myself why I was even doing it if it was no longer fun or relaxing in any way.
People who love cannabis think it's the cure for everything. While I don't doubt its medicinal uses, it's definitely not for everyone.
I agree it has something to do with responsibilities and/or "getting caught". As a young adult I had a lot less going on and cannabis was a wonderful tool for creativity and getting things done. Older, I find myself worrying about more things and cannabis can bring in introspective thought loops which manifest as anxiety. Fortunately I'm better at separating that out now and it doesn't affect me as much - but I know if I was chilling in a hammock in a wooded area somewhere without deadlines to meet, I'd be a lot less anxious.
Also, quitting caffeine cut my anxiety in half.
Also, quitting caffeine cut my anxiety in half.
Also agree it's 100% the responsibilities/feeling guilty syndrome. But I'm basing this on my personal experience only.
I suffer from bouts of anxiety and depression. I also like to partake in cannabis. If I'm feeling depressed, anxious, sad - WARNING - don't do cannabis!! It amplifies the feeling. I would never use it for an escape from bad stuff. If I'm feeling good, then go for it!
It's a mind altering substance. If your mind isn't in a great place to begin with, what do people think cannabis is going to do?
And yeah, cut down on caffeine and sleep some more.
I suffer from bouts of anxiety and depression. I also like to partake in cannabis. If I'm feeling depressed, anxious, sad - WARNING - don't do cannabis!! It amplifies the feeling. I would never use it for an escape from bad stuff. If I'm feeling good, then go for it!
It's a mind altering substance. If your mind isn't in a great place to begin with, what do people think cannabis is going to do?
And yeah, cut down on caffeine and sleep some more.
Most drugs are this way.
Angry people are even angrier drunks. Smoking weed doesn't chemically do anything to correct depression and will reinforce the very behaviors that lead to it. Even amphetamines don't correct depression, they just make you fixate on it until the comedown is 3x as bad as you started.
One simple solution-- capsaicin. Masochism will tickle your pain receptors and suppress mental anguish. I recommend a spicy burrito/kimchi and a brisk walk as a home remedy for shitty days.
Angry people are even angrier drunks. Smoking weed doesn't chemically do anything to correct depression and will reinforce the very behaviors that lead to it. Even amphetamines don't correct depression, they just make you fixate on it until the comedown is 3x as bad as you started.
One simple solution-- capsaicin. Masochism will tickle your pain receptors and suppress mental anguish. I recommend a spicy burrito/kimchi and a brisk walk as a home remedy for shitty days.
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It doesn’t for me. If anything it makes my depression and anxiety better for a little bit. It helps me focus on just one thing rather than worry about all the things in the world.
Set and setting do matter just like other drugs. If I’m sitting at my back garden then I feel very at peace high. If I’m downtown then I’ll feel anxious from the sensory overload
Set and setting do matter just like other drugs. If I’m sitting at my back garden then I feel very at peace high. If I’m downtown then I’ll feel anxious from the sensory overload
- "introspective thought loops"
Oh, that's the flavor of anxiety I get too! That's a very precise description.
Oh, that's the flavor of anxiety I get too! That's a very precise description.
I enjoyed that phase too when I read it :), but is it just a nicer way of saying "spiraling?"
It seems common for people to be unaware of important things like THC:CBD ratios, and this ignorance often stems from unfortunate market based incentives to prioritize high THC ratios above all else. Modern growing techniques drive this even further with high potency plants.
If you (anyone) aren't fortunate enough to have a wide selection of lab tested ratios in your locale, consider mixing whatever THC is available along with product that is CBD "hemp," which, at least in the US is legal in most places and legal to ship online from out of state. Many users intentionally mix like this because the latter is often cheaper from the market saturation.
This isn't guaranteed to be the reason behind your issues, but seems to be for many people who stumble into this info.
If you (anyone) aren't fortunate enough to have a wide selection of lab tested ratios in your locale, consider mixing whatever THC is available along with product that is CBD "hemp," which, at least in the US is legal in most places and legal to ship online from out of state. Many users intentionally mix like this because the latter is often cheaper from the market saturation.
This isn't guaranteed to be the reason behind your issues, but seems to be for many people who stumble into this info.
Great comment.
~100% THC, no CBD, is objectively wrong for almost all uses of cannabis.
The market is morally bankrupt, ran by non-cannabis people, and prioritizing addiction over wellness.
~100% THC, no CBD, is objectively wrong for almost all uses of cannabis.
The market is morally bankrupt, ran by non-cannabis people, and prioritizing addiction over wellness.
> People who love cannabis think it's the cure for everything.
I don't and nobody I know who uses cannabis thinks that either. False generalizations don't help anybody.
I don't and nobody I know who uses cannabis thinks that either. False generalizations don't help anybody.
This perspective stems from:
- ignorance of what the different compounds are capable of, especially when isolated and concentrated.
- thinking all cannabis consumers light it on fire.
- more
- ignorance of what the different compounds are capable of, especially when isolated and concentrated.
- thinking all cannabis consumers light it on fire.
- more
This happened to me for a while, so I stopped.
Then I started up again, and I VERY CAREFULLY measure my dosage. 2.5mg THC and 20mg CBD takes the edge off nicely, is zero calorie, and works up my appetite even when I'm sick of eating ( I do a ton of weight lifting and the protein intake can be annoying ).
I've abandoned flower and use a little dropper of low octaine 4-1 CBD to THC tincture.
Then I started up again, and I VERY CAREFULLY measure my dosage. 2.5mg THC and 20mg CBD takes the edge off nicely, is zero calorie, and works up my appetite even when I'm sick of eating ( I do a ton of weight lifting and the protein intake can be annoying ).
I've abandoned flower and use a little dropper of low octaine 4-1 CBD to THC tincture.
Might get downvoted but I agree; truly weed has changed, even just CBD. Now it is bad vibes only. Oh well, alcohol is still there I guess.
Not all CBD is created equal.
Contaminants are still very common, and so is not having broad or full spectrum of compounds.
If you're interested in a great recommendation, happy to help.
Contaminants are still very common, and so is not having broad or full spectrum of compounds.
If you're interested in a great recommendation, happy to help.
Thanks. I'm outta the game. Even in Canada, I don't feel safe trying to have fun with psychedelics no more. Maybe I'll try gummies another time ?
Grow your own, the quality is 10 times better than you can buy.
Could it also have been the type of weed you were using changed between your teems and 30s... transitioning from higher CBD contents to low or no CBD contents could easily explain part of that transition.
I guess I am somewhat different than many of the commenters in this thread.
Cannabis has caused anxiety in me before, but I had anxiety problems prior fwiw. In a weird way, I kind of used the anxiety from Cannabis as "training."
What I mean, is that when I would get anxious from cannabis, I would try and talk myself down, remind myself that nothing bad was going to happen, and then kind of intentionally try to refrain my thoughts in order to force myself to enjoy the experience.
I learned that the more I did this, the better I was at being able to do this in other situations where I would be inappropriately anxious about something (even without Cannabis).
It's not perfect, but has seemed to work better than anything else I have tried. So, my point is that I learned the only way I can apparently beat anxiety is to charge it head on.
Cannabis has caused anxiety in me before, but I had anxiety problems prior fwiw. In a weird way, I kind of used the anxiety from Cannabis as "training."
What I mean, is that when I would get anxious from cannabis, I would try and talk myself down, remind myself that nothing bad was going to happen, and then kind of intentionally try to refrain my thoughts in order to force myself to enjoy the experience.
I learned that the more I did this, the better I was at being able to do this in other situations where I would be inappropriately anxious about something (even without Cannabis).
It's not perfect, but has seemed to work better than anything else I have tried. So, my point is that I learned the only way I can apparently beat anxiety is to charge it head on.
Wow, same thing for me as well. It was very effective because it was like OK I know for sure I'm in a state of anxiousness right now because I just consumed something mind-altering - there is no ambiguity to it. So then you roll with it and gradually start to become bolder in your actions. Because its like "well I thought I was gonna die last time but I didn't so it really was all in my head. Why do I waste so much brain CPU on things that are meaningless?".
It didn't 100% solve my anxiety but it put me on the path to finally seek out a legitimate and effective solution because I had enough reference to compare to.
It didn't 100% solve my anxiety but it put me on the path to finally seek out a legitimate and effective solution because I had enough reference to compare to.
Not exactly the same situation, but... a little similar, I guess? Cannabis has never given me generalized anxiety - sometimes it does, however, force me to pay attention to some real truths that I tend to ignore while sober. e.g., I gained 60lb from the start of quarantine to now, became way less physically active, etc. If I get particularly high, it forces me to confront this, and that it's a destructive lifestyle I need to change instead of continuing to put it off.
And, well, I think that anxiety is deserved? It's objectively true and a literal life and death matter. For me it's less I have anxiety in general because I am very good at not being honest with myself while not high, but that the anxiety I sometimes get really is constructive, because otherwise I ignore it. A recent shift in my eating habits for the better was directly brought on by a particularly bad bout of anxiety around all of this while very high, and I would consider that to be a good thing.
Most of the time when I get stoned I don't deal with any sort of anxiety, though.
And, well, I think that anxiety is deserved? It's objectively true and a literal life and death matter. For me it's less I have anxiety in general because I am very good at not being honest with myself while not high, but that the anxiety I sometimes get really is constructive, because otherwise I ignore it. A recent shift in my eating habits for the better was directly brought on by a particularly bad bout of anxiety around all of this while very high, and I would consider that to be a good thing.
Most of the time when I get stoned I don't deal with any sort of anxiety, though.
You basically just did exposure therapy (the most effective therapy for anxiety) with cannabis as your trigger.
Cannabis use seemed to "unlock" a type of anxiety that I had never experienced before, and after using it, I could never "forget" this feeling. Absolute hell that now recurs.
It seems absolutely insane to me that our pop culture pushes this stuff as at worse benign, but usually beneficial.
It seems absolutely insane to me that our pop culture pushes this stuff as at worse benign, but usually beneficial.
You're not alone. After years of no issues and enjoying the intoxication, I had a really bad trip that caused an "anxiety attack" specifically existential anxiety. While intoxicated I would rarely but sometimes feel paranoid, however, this was my first ever time experiencing anxiety at this scale, and it persisted while I was sober.
It was (and sometimes is) really bad!!
It took 4+ months of therapy to get back to "manageable", and over 2 years later I felt back to normal and in control. I've now stopped any intoxicants (alcohol included) almost entirely. I sometimes will participate with a good group of friends, but I'm far more cautious of any intoxicant.
It was (and sometimes is) really bad!!
It took 4+ months of therapy to get back to "manageable", and over 2 years later I felt back to normal and in control. I've now stopped any intoxicants (alcohol included) almost entirely. I sometimes will participate with a good group of friends, but I'm far more cautious of any intoxicant.
This can be caused by many other things too - not saying cannabis’s didn’t do it in yours. I always had low background level anxiety through my life but a certain life event caused me to suddenly have panic attacks. I’ve been on meds ever since
I'm truly sorry this happened to you.
I'll admit that I'm not as "plugged in" to what pop culture is pushing these days, so can't speak to that, but my own experience with cannabis puts it in a different light for me (which, given your experience, I bet you're not that eager to hear, but maybe others might be).
For me, cannabis fits between opioids and over the counter pain killers - neither of which I can take for pain that I get from nerve damage from a pretty severe injury from a few years ago. Cannabis is very effective at taking the edge off that pain so I can sleep. It doesn't make it go away, it just makes it less intense. Cannabis is by no means benign - anything that can do what it does to my pain isn't "safe". I treat it with the same respect and responsibility I would with other medications. It's not perfect, and has its own risks, but in my case, it's beneficial.
Again, I really am sorry for you. Not so much because you can't enjoy cannabis, but because of what you have to deal with now.
I'll admit that I'm not as "plugged in" to what pop culture is pushing these days, so can't speak to that, but my own experience with cannabis puts it in a different light for me (which, given your experience, I bet you're not that eager to hear, but maybe others might be).
For me, cannabis fits between opioids and over the counter pain killers - neither of which I can take for pain that I get from nerve damage from a pretty severe injury from a few years ago. Cannabis is very effective at taking the edge off that pain so I can sleep. It doesn't make it go away, it just makes it less intense. Cannabis is by no means benign - anything that can do what it does to my pain isn't "safe". I treat it with the same respect and responsibility I would with other medications. It's not perfect, and has its own risks, but in my case, it's beneficial.
Again, I really am sorry for you. Not so much because you can't enjoy cannabis, but because of what you have to deal with now.
I totally get it, the same thing happens to me. I get horrible anxiety when I overdo it. You are likely over-doing it. Even a puff of the "new" stuff is too much for me.
I'll also point out that:
1. TONS of people have undiagnosed anxiety disorders, and blaming it on smoking a plant years go is neither scientific or productive.
2. If you are consistently experiencing anxiety, there are a TON of resources you can tap into. Even outside of medication, there is CBT and mindfulness that can keep you in the moment and prevent you from spinning out.
I'll also point out that:
1. TONS of people have undiagnosed anxiety disorders, and blaming it on smoking a plant years go is neither scientific or productive.
2. If you are consistently experiencing anxiety, there are a TON of resources you can tap into. Even outside of medication, there is CBT and mindfulness that can keep you in the moment and prevent you from spinning out.
THIS #1!
Not saying cannabis can't be an issue, however i'd imagine a LOT of these reports of "cannabis made me anxious", are actually "i was anxious, tried cannabis, and now i'm just even more anxious", the fact is a lot of medical especially mental situations are under or NOT diagnosed and people attribute the feels to the last thing they did.
Not saying cannabis can't be an issue, however i'd imagine a LOT of these reports of "cannabis made me anxious", are actually "i was anxious, tried cannabis, and now i'm just even more anxious", the fact is a lot of medical especially mental situations are under or NOT diagnosed and people attribute the feels to the last thing they did.
Can you elaborate on what type of anxiety it unlocked?
Sure, what's frustrating is that it isn't tied to any fear (if that makes sense). It's not the traditional "I'm gonna get caught!" thing you see in movies.
The best I can describe is: pretend there's a murderer right outside of your window, he's coming to kill you and tapping on the glass. Your heart rate is spiked, your body is flooding you with adrenaline, fight or flight is in full kickoff mode; you need to either *run* away, or fight.
But now imagine you get all of those physical sensations, but there is no killer outside and you know it. You feel the fight or flight, but you don't have any idea what it is in response to.
Trying to slow down is difficult, and you can feel sortof uncoordinated when walking around (your body is screaming to run, so walking feels off somehow).
Unfortunately it's hard to describe. It is definitely not psychological concern about something, though, and this is where some frustration when talking about it comes from. There's nothing to reassure yourself of or calm down from, because you're not having the psychological effects of anxiety, just the physical ones.
The best I can describe is: pretend there's a murderer right outside of your window, he's coming to kill you and tapping on the glass. Your heart rate is spiked, your body is flooding you with adrenaline, fight or flight is in full kickoff mode; you need to either *run* away, or fight.
But now imagine you get all of those physical sensations, but there is no killer outside and you know it. You feel the fight or flight, but you don't have any idea what it is in response to.
Trying to slow down is difficult, and you can feel sortof uncoordinated when walking around (your body is screaming to run, so walking feels off somehow).
Unfortunately it's hard to describe. It is definitely not psychological concern about something, though, and this is where some frustration when talking about it comes from. There's nothing to reassure yourself of or calm down from, because you're not having the psychological effects of anxiety, just the physical ones.
This is exactly what my diagnosed by a psychiatrist anxiety is like. It’s not specific to cannabis.
Sounds like when your sympathetic nervous system is turned on and stuck? This sounds similar to hyperadrenergic POTS or dysautonomia.
They're probably talking about intense paranoia. I have a friend, who told me about the one time they were high and couldn't pee, because of the fear that their organs would flush down the toilet...
Because it is?
The problem is, you and tons of folk like you didn't read the fine print, because... who knows, ignorance? Fok ya all attitude of young? Even though all info is few clicks away at most.
It has been said 10 thousand times here and everywhere else, including quite a few posts by me - just don't do any mind altering drugs if you are not balanced +-happy person. There is no clear definition or dividing line, each of us is unique and should know how stable/unstable they are, if they have unresolved long term issues and so on. If folks can't be even honest in such things with themselves, well, life will be a tough walk in many aspects thats for sure.
For all those folks, if you do such things, you take tremendous risk, you may end up off better despite issues, but that's your Russian roulette with your own mind, don't complain that you risked massively and lost a huge gamble. These cases are not reference, unless say 50% of US population is by default anxious.
The problem is, you and tons of folk like you didn't read the fine print, because... who knows, ignorance? Fok ya all attitude of young? Even though all info is few clicks away at most.
It has been said 10 thousand times here and everywhere else, including quite a few posts by me - just don't do any mind altering drugs if you are not balanced +-happy person. There is no clear definition or dividing line, each of us is unique and should know how stable/unstable they are, if they have unresolved long term issues and so on. If folks can't be even honest in such things with themselves, well, life will be a tough walk in many aspects thats for sure.
For all those folks, if you do such things, you take tremendous risk, you may end up off better despite issues, but that's your Russian roulette with your own mind, don't complain that you risked massively and lost a huge gamble. These cases are not reference, unless say 50% of US population is by default anxious.
You brought age into a discussion when it wasn't warranted, and you assume people with mental health issues all know it.
Healthy people have heart attacks. Healthy people can mistake depression or budding mental issues as "work stress" or the pressures of life.
You're essentially saying "yeah cannabis can cause issues but it's your fault for not knowing your in a 100% happy place" which is dismissive on several levels.
I say this as someone who likes THC edibles and also can see how it causes anxiety for people prone to it. I also think age can be a factor, anecdotally. Alcohol was something easy for me to overconsume, and now my hangovers cause nebulous anxiety the next day which cannot be explained by any specific thing.
Healthy people have heart attacks. Healthy people can mistake depression or budding mental issues as "work stress" or the pressures of life.
You're essentially saying "yeah cannabis can cause issues but it's your fault for not knowing your in a 100% happy place" which is dismissive on several levels.
I say this as someone who likes THC edibles and also can see how it causes anxiety for people prone to it. I also think age can be a factor, anecdotally. Alcohol was something easy for me to overconsume, and now my hangovers cause nebulous anxiety the next day which cannot be explained by any specific thing.
> cannot be explained by any specific thing.
Neurodegeneratives be neurodegenerating?
Neurodegeneratives be neurodegenerating?
I didn't know acute anxiety due to alcohol consumption was neurodegenerative disease.
Might not be directly related,
but messing with the nervous system using alcohol can often damage digestion, damaging nutrition, damaging mental health.
This can indeed happen acutely/be experienced in less than a day.
but messing with the nervous system using alcohol can often damage digestion, damaging nutrition, damaging mental health.
This can indeed happen acutely/be experienced in less than a day.
Outside of this study, if you're a constant smoker and you suffer from morning nausea, please see cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome
I suffered from intense bouts of nausea often lasting days (and my last time a whole week), I learned of CHS and stopped my use immediately, finally stopped the pain
The pain and nausea was so bad, it was honestly the worst i've ever felt
I suffered from intense bouts of nausea often lasting days (and my last time a whole week), I learned of CHS and stopped my use immediately, finally stopped the pain
The pain and nausea was so bad, it was honestly the worst i've ever felt
Just to clarify, how did you typically consume cannabis?
Daily dry herb vaping and occasional smoking (3 times a week), but very high quality
I speculate concentrates.
My country doesn't have easily accessible concentrates, but I did dry herb vape high quality cannabis and smoke on occasion (maybe 3 times a week)
Yeah this pretty obvious to anyone with an anxiety disorder who tries pot as a solution. It gets recommended by users, who think it’s a cure because their anxiety is due to THc withdrawals. But if you aren’t a user and try it it explodes your anxiety and is just the worst.
It’s interesting how on HN whenever a topic related to cannabis comes up so many people jump in to say they have anxiety, and that weed makes it worse, and that it must be the same for everyone. Does HN have a higher than normal percentage of highly anxious people? Or is it just the threads attract the kind of people who are likely to be anxious and jumpy around the topic? It’s a really interesting phenomenon. In real life, people may like it or not, may still use it or not, but the discussion seems way more casual and nowhere near as singularly anxiety fixated as when the topic comes up here.
I’m not judging, I’ve been treated for anxiety myself. Just quite curious about how different the conversations are.
I’m not judging, I’ve been treated for anxiety myself. Just quite curious about how different the conversations are.
If youre willing to accommodate a highly opinionated take from experience:
Intelligence itself seems to correlate with anxiety, i.e. being able to construct and focus on abstractions, as opposed to your immediate environment, on demand increases likelihood of fixation on abstractions.
Combine that with a lack of forced grounding in computer-based professions, i.e. little human interaction, and you're a heck of a lot more likely to be in your own head, then add weed on top and you're even more likely.
Intelligence itself seems to correlate with anxiety, i.e. being able to construct and focus on abstractions, as opposed to your immediate environment, on demand increases likelihood of fixation on abstractions.
Combine that with a lack of forced grounding in computer-based professions, i.e. little human interaction, and you're a heck of a lot more likely to be in your own head, then add weed on top and you're even more likely.
Makes sense! That would align pretty well with my personal experience too.
A thread about anxiety does seem like it would attract people with anxiety who want to talk about anxiety.
Sure, but the phenomenon exists across all the threads about cannabis.
I think it's a recently developed pushback to the widespread love cannabis has received online for a long time. For a long time, it has been either heralded as a gateway drug or a magical cure all that could do no wrong.
Now that it is much more widely available and many more people have actually tried it for extended periods of time, the narrative has shifted.
Now that it is much more widely available and many more people have actually tried it for extended periods of time, the narrative has shifted.
How does saying you have anxiety when you smoke weed push back against people who were overly positive about it though?
To provide a counterpoint to the, "Weed is good. Weed can do no wrong." view that many have had about it.
I began to notice this phenomenon on internet discussions/forums tied to mental health, physical health, and drugs (illiegal and legal). The discussions themselves attract anxious people who are using the internet to validate and reassure themselves. And I know I used to be the same before I found my own effective treatment for anxiety.
there's also the possibility there is some correlation between autism spectrum and weed anxiety, and that HN naturally attracts nerds who tend to be (mildly) on the spectrum.
there's no particularly major evidence that it's highly correlated but I've heard anecdotal theories along the line before.
there's no particularly major evidence that it's highly correlated but I've heard anecdotal theories along the line before.
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> In real life, people may like it or not, may still use it or not, but the discussion seems way more casual and nowhere near as singularly anxiety fixated as when the topic comes up here.
It’s been common in my circles as we have aged. In our now mid 30s most have ceased its usage other for that reason other than myself who took it up following a spinal cord injury. For what it’s worth, it did seem to give me anxiety at first but time (and mixing with a cbd strain) seems to have solved that.
edit
We do all work in IT for the most part so…maybe that is something.
It’s been common in my circles as we have aged. In our now mid 30s most have ceased its usage other for that reason other than myself who took it up following a spinal cord injury. For what it’s worth, it did seem to give me anxiety at first but time (and mixing with a cbd strain) seems to have solved that.
edit
We do all work in IT for the most part so…maybe that is something.
That has also been my experience. I’ve had anxiety since I was a child and was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. Back in 2014 or so, I was at my wits end and wanted to try medical marijuana since it was touted as a solution to my anxiety. I went to see a doctor, who doubled down on this being a good thing to try. So, I got my card, and went to a dispensary where I bought whatever they recommended for anxiety.
Two hours later, I was having my biggest panic attack in years. If I didn’t grow up having panic attacks all my life, I would probably have called 911 or got someone to drive me to the ER.
If there’s an easy fix for anxiety out there, I’d love to know about it. I’ve been fighting this for decades and it doesn’t get better as I get older. What kind of helps in the meantime is therapy, slow exposure to stressors (being careful to prevent flooding), and mindfulness meditation. None of this fixes my anxiety, but it makes it a little bit more manageable.
Two hours later, I was having my biggest panic attack in years. If I didn’t grow up having panic attacks all my life, I would probably have called 911 or got someone to drive me to the ER.
If there’s an easy fix for anxiety out there, I’d love to know about it. I’ve been fighting this for decades and it doesn’t get better as I get older. What kind of helps in the meantime is therapy, slow exposure to stressors (being careful to prevent flooding), and mindfulness meditation. None of this fixes my anxiety, but it makes it a little bit more manageable.
Propanolol is a fantastic anxiety treatment. In some ways better than xanax, at least for me.
Highly, highly recommend trying it. They say it's for "stage fright", which can be offputting because "stage fright" (at least to me) seems almost wholly unrelated to the type of anxiety I suffer from.
It's a miracle from my perspective. If you suffer from generalized anxiety, please ask your doctor about it.
Just to really hammer this home: I had doctors recommend this drug to me for years, and I always more or less ignored them. I have taken xanax for quite some time, and took this recommendation as them being apprehensive about prescribing it (which i understand, since many people abuse it).
Propanolol seems to have the same type of calming effect, but with none of tired/disassociative feelings that xanax gives (which I don't like). The first time I took it I almost wanted to cry. It really was just like a switch that turned the anxiety off. It does take about 60-90 minutes to fully kick in, though.
Highly, highly recommend trying it. They say it's for "stage fright", which can be offputting because "stage fright" (at least to me) seems almost wholly unrelated to the type of anxiety I suffer from.
It's a miracle from my perspective. If you suffer from generalized anxiety, please ask your doctor about it.
Just to really hammer this home: I had doctors recommend this drug to me for years, and I always more or less ignored them. I have taken xanax for quite some time, and took this recommendation as them being apprehensive about prescribing it (which i understand, since many people abuse it).
Propanolol seems to have the same type of calming effect, but with none of tired/disassociative feelings that xanax gives (which I don't like). The first time I took it I almost wanted to cry. It really was just like a switch that turned the anxiety off. It does take about 60-90 minutes to fully kick in, though.
I feel that propanolol helps with physical effects of anxiety (which are not much of a problem for me), but doesn't affect the mental side of anxiety the same way benzos do. It's much less addictive than benzos of course, and preferable for that reason if it works.
I only get the physical effects, which is why it works so well for me.
+ 1 for propranolol. Its a beta blocker. It binds to receptor sites for adrenaline so adrenaline doesnt have effect. Usually anxiety attack is a loop where brain panics, triggers body reaction like increased heart rate etc and that causes brain to panic further and this loop escalates. Propranolol blocks this loop in the body, as in, heart rate wont increase.
Personally I found it useful.
Personally I found it useful.
I'm a hobbyist musician with IBS-D, which is often triggered by general anxiety. I've been asked to play with the pros several times, and every time I have to say 'no' several hours beforehand b/c I'm chained to the toilet. Do you think that propranolol would negate those issues? I have also tried CBT with a therapist and it was only marginally helpful
This is not medical advice. However propranolol is prescribed off label for “performance anxiety” so it may be worth discussing with your PCP. It is not an anxiety medication per se, it is a non selective beta blocker, it blocks some of the effects of (nor)adrenaline. How this can help isn’t entirely understood but part of performance anxiety is a positive feedback cycle where your physical feelings of anxiety provoke more anxiety.
The good thing about propranolol is that since it does not have meaningful addiction or tolerance potential it’s reasonable to take long term. It’s relatively safe in otherwise healthy people, so it’s overall low risk, with depressed heart rate and BP leading to syncope the main one. It historically was a blood pressure medication, but oral beta blockers are poor first line BP meds. Few PCPs have qualms prescribing it if there are no contraindications.
The good thing about propranolol is that since it does not have meaningful addiction or tolerance potential it’s reasonable to take long term. It’s relatively safe in otherwise healthy people, so it’s overall low risk, with depressed heart rate and BP leading to syncope the main one. It historically was a blood pressure medication, but oral beta blockers are poor first line BP meds. Few PCPs have qualms prescribing it if there are no contraindications.
I think the drug is often prescribed for this exact scenario (stage fright, essentially).
Thanks for the suggestion; I appreciate it. Is this something you take daily or as you need it?
As needed, but it's fine to take daily with no negative downsides.
I'll take it before I need to go do something which might have triggered an attack, but the long term benefit here is that doing those activities without getting triggered lessens the sensitivity to the trigger (if that make sense).
So lately I haven't taken any in weeks, but when I was first prescribed it I took it every day.
I'll take it before I need to go do something which might have triggered an attack, but the long term benefit here is that doing those activities without getting triggered lessens the sensitivity to the trigger (if that make sense).
So lately I haven't taken any in weeks, but when I was first prescribed it I took it every day.
It's very likely that you had way too much THC. Especially if you vaped or ingested it.
When I first started smoking, 0.01g (yes, one hundredth of a gram - a barely visible layer on top of some tobacco) was enough to get a whole room of students incredibly high for a few hours. I used to buy 0.2g and that lasted 5 people the entire weekend.
And that was before all of this lamp-grown craziness with 10% and more THC content. If you used more than 0.1g of these medical dispensary strains, it's really no wonder you had a crazy panic attack. I'd have too and I'm an experienced smoker.
I know some people using weed to treat anxiety. They smoke so little they don't feel high at all. One gram might last them a month.
When I first started smoking, 0.01g (yes, one hundredth of a gram - a barely visible layer on top of some tobacco) was enough to get a whole room of students incredibly high for a few hours. I used to buy 0.2g and that lasted 5 people the entire weekend.
And that was before all of this lamp-grown craziness with 10% and more THC content. If you used more than 0.1g of these medical dispensary strains, it's really no wonder you had a crazy panic attack. I'd have too and I'm an experienced smoker.
I know some people using weed to treat anxiety. They smoke so little they don't feel high at all. One gram might last them a month.
I have 2nd this. I've been using weed for a very long time and have seen so many people try to take a lung full of smoke as opposed to a small sip.
I don't do "vapes". That stuff is so highly concentrated that it makes me cough with even a tiny sip. Same with "gummies". I can't really know how the dose will affect me and I don't want to get "stoned".
I do think that if you're wanting weed to help with anxiety you should probably look into CBD too. That probably works better for anxiety.
I don't do "vapes". That stuff is so highly concentrated that it makes me cough with even a tiny sip. Same with "gummies". I can't really know how the dose will affect me and I don't want to get "stoned".
I do think that if you're wanting weed to help with anxiety you should probably look into CBD too. That probably works better for anxiety.
For the curious reader: that clownshow is at ~30% THC these days.
I have diagnosed GAD as well. And the first time I smoked marijuana I had an intensely anxious experience. However, i find that small doses of edibles are like magic. I am sensitive to it but the dose makes the poison.
Apart from mindfulness practices (which do help, but slowly), I've found the following to be life-changing regarding my lifelong, debilitating social anxiety:
- psychedelic therapy (1-4 times a year, over 6 years, turned me into a functional person in social contexts)
- strong chammomile flower tea (depresses my nervous system to a normal baseline -- this has been the most dramatic way to ease physiological symptoms of anxiety for me)
- psychedelic therapy (1-4 times a year, over 6 years, turned me into a functional person in social contexts)
- strong chammomile flower tea (depresses my nervous system to a normal baseline -- this has been the most dramatic way to ease physiological symptoms of anxiety for me)
> I’ve been fighting this for decades and it doesn’t get better as I get older.
As someone younger than you quite possibly suffering with the same thing, that’s saddening to hear. Is there anything you did that you wish you’d done sooner? Have you tried any (pharmaceutical) medication?
As someone younger than you quite possibly suffering with the same thing, that’s saddening to hear. Is there anything you did that you wish you’d done sooner? Have you tried any (pharmaceutical) medication?
I do take Clonazepam when I get severe panic attacks or right before something I know usually triggers a panic attack, but nothing on a day-to-day basis. Clonazepam does seem to help with my symptoms, though it just makes me feel euphoric (which, I guess, is better than feeling like I'm dying). I take a tiny dose, but it seems to help a lot.
I have a few things I wish I'd done sooner if you'd indulge my ranty and highly personal list:
* Moving out of the city and into the country. I know this one is not feasible for most people, but it helped me to get out of the hustle and bustle and back to an environment similar to where I grew up.
* Reducing caffeine and increasing water intake. I limit myself to one cup of coffee in the morning and no caffeine afterward.
* Quitting my high-stress job in favor of a job at a startup and taking more breaks.
* Daily cardio exercise for at least 30 minutes.
* Talking about how I'm feeling with my partner. It seems simple and silly, but this one is crucial for me. I tend to lock up when I'm feeling crappy and lash out. Overcoming that and talking about how I'm feeling has helped enormously.
* Going to therapy.
These are all helping me cope, so I still have panic attacks, but not as often as a decade or so ago.
I have a few things I wish I'd done sooner if you'd indulge my ranty and highly personal list:
* Moving out of the city and into the country. I know this one is not feasible for most people, but it helped me to get out of the hustle and bustle and back to an environment similar to where I grew up.
* Reducing caffeine and increasing water intake. I limit myself to one cup of coffee in the morning and no caffeine afterward.
* Quitting my high-stress job in favor of a job at a startup and taking more breaks.
* Daily cardio exercise for at least 30 minutes.
* Talking about how I'm feeling with my partner. It seems simple and silly, but this one is crucial for me. I tend to lock up when I'm feeling crappy and lash out. Overcoming that and talking about how I'm feeling has helped enormously.
* Going to therapy.
These are all helping me cope, so I still have panic attacks, but not as often as a decade or so ago.
> if you'd indulge my ranty and highly personal list
Not ranty at all; very helpful in fact!
It’s interesting you say cutting down on caffeine helped… I feel the opposite would be true for me. For some reason it seems to have a calming effect.
Anyway… good luck to you. I hope it continues to gradually improve.
Not ranty at all; very helpful in fact!
It’s interesting you say cutting down on caffeine helped… I feel the opposite would be true for me. For some reason it seems to have a calming effect.
Anyway… good luck to you. I hope it continues to gradually improve.
I wouldn't say it's this simple—there are lots of different strains out there with wildly different effects due to the cannabinoids they contain. Furthermore, every person's own endocannabinoid system is different, and reacts differently to cannabinoids. For one person, a strain might make them feel relaxed and happy—for another, the same strain might make them simply fall asleep (or extremely anxious, for instance).
There's also the very common issue of people new to cannabis using far, far too much—which generally results in a feeling of intense anxiety. Anyone who hasn't had any cannabis before should be extremely careful and use as little as possible.
Finally, regular users who have developed a tolerance for certain cannabinoids may find it difficult to relax without them. Anyone regularly using a substance like cannabis should be on the lookout for this, and change their behavior accordingly.
There's also the very common issue of people new to cannabis using far, far too much—which generally results in a feeling of intense anxiety. Anyone who hasn't had any cannabis before should be extremely careful and use as little as possible.
Finally, regular users who have developed a tolerance for certain cannabinoids may find it difficult to relax without them. Anyone regularly using a substance like cannabis should be on the lookout for this, and change their behavior accordingly.
I smoked a lot about a decade ago. Anecdotally, I can confirm this as well. I would feel great if I got high when life was stress free but it heightened my anxiety when I was already worried about something. It also generally made me anxious to be around other people.
Can anecdotally confirm that I know lots of nonsmokers (or at least, those who don't regularly smoke) who find their anxiety spiked when they tried weed. Some of that is just because being in an altered state for the first time is fairly anxiety-inducing itself.
I find that even with tons of experience, it's a matter of frequency and habituation. When I was smoking every day, there wasn't any anxiety but after a long break, the next time is like the very first time. Full of anxiety.
It's definitely more than just conflating "treating" THC withdrawal with treating anxiety, at least for me personally. I'll quit for months, have an anxiety attack, and I'm able to interrupt it by using cannabis. It doesn't per say treat my anxiety but can be like a "rescue inhaler" to disrupt repetitive anxious thoughts and snap me out of an anxiety attack. Once they're disrupted, I have a fighting chance to confront my anxiety with other strategies (which are the real long term solutions).
But it does make perfect sense to me that the effects of cannabis on someone who has been a longtime user are quite different and that it isn't great generic advice to tell people to try cannabis for their anxiety. I definitely think this current vogue of trying to apply cannabis to every problem is misguided and an artefact of the commercial environment around cannabis being increasingly legal, not our medical understanding of it.
But it does make perfect sense to me that the effects of cannabis on someone who has been a longtime user are quite different and that it isn't great generic advice to tell people to try cannabis for their anxiety. I definitely think this current vogue of trying to apply cannabis to every problem is misguided and an artefact of the commercial environment around cannabis being increasingly legal, not our medical understanding of it.
I'm comfortable recommending broad-spectrum CBD with little or no THC as an anxiety aid.
Not all cannabis has THC, high THC (the anxiety-inducing part, for most).
Nor should it!
Not all cannabis has THC, high THC (the anxiety-inducing part, for most).
Nor should it!
I'm aware, but I personally wouldn't recommend any mind altering substance to anyone without a lot of context. When I was a young troublemaker my friends and I fancied ourselves as knowledgeable and made very casual recommendations to people about what substances they should try and what dosages would be appropriate. It became apparent to me that a dosage that has no discernable effect on one person can put another under the table, and I became very, very conservative about such things.
Eg, I've seen people smoke large amounts of weed and concentrates and then go off and do something productive, and I've seen people take a single hit or gummy and have a panic attack.
Someone I know tried a CBD product to see if it would help their anxiety (to be clear, they didn't consult with me on this, this was of their own volution). They somehow had gotten the impression that they wouldn't feel high, and were alarmed when they did. In that case, there wasn't any lasting harm, they simply didn't try it again. I know another person who would have a lot of anxiety on CBD gummies. Again, no lasting harm, they just stopped taking them. But I don't believe that there is no cause for caution with CBD products.
I see CBD gummies advertised for just about everything, from helping you sleep to helping you feel awake and helping you feel aroused. These are all plausible effects for someone to experience, but I don't believe we have it down to such a science that these experiences can be bottled and productized. There's clearly a lot of snake oil out there.
To be clear I think it's broadly good that cannabis is being slowly legalized in the US and that people have the opportunity to experiment and see if it's helpful to them. I've just had a respect for mind-altering substances ingrained in me, so I'm not uncomfortable with how casually people sometimes recommend these products.
Eg, I've seen people smoke large amounts of weed and concentrates and then go off and do something productive, and I've seen people take a single hit or gummy and have a panic attack.
Someone I know tried a CBD product to see if it would help their anxiety (to be clear, they didn't consult with me on this, this was of their own volution). They somehow had gotten the impression that they wouldn't feel high, and were alarmed when they did. In that case, there wasn't any lasting harm, they simply didn't try it again. I know another person who would have a lot of anxiety on CBD gummies. Again, no lasting harm, they just stopped taking them. But I don't believe that there is no cause for caution with CBD products.
I see CBD gummies advertised for just about everything, from helping you sleep to helping you feel awake and helping you feel aroused. These are all plausible effects for someone to experience, but I don't believe we have it down to such a science that these experiences can be bottled and productized. There's clearly a lot of snake oil out there.
To be clear I think it's broadly good that cannabis is being slowly legalized in the US and that people have the opportunity to experiment and see if it's helpful to them. I've just had a respect for mind-altering substances ingrained in me, so I'm not uncomfortable with how casually people sometimes recommend these products.
Indeed, someone who, say, isn't even familiar with the difference between CBD and CBN-containing products probably should not be the person giving out recommendations.
> Indeed, someone who, say, isn't even familiar with the difference between CBD and CBN-containing products probably should not be the person giving out recommendations.
Well, it's disappointing that you are more interested in being snarky than engaging seriously, I just hope you don't hurt anybody. And I hope if you do, you're in a position to know that it happened and to learn from it.
I'd like to leave you with this thought experiment. You probably wouldn't feel comfortable telling a stranger on the Internet they should be taking sertraline, right? Why should you feel more comfortable telling them to take a CBD product? Do you really feel you have the context to prescribe drugs to strangers? Is that a rational belief?
Well, it's disappointing that you are more interested in being snarky than engaging seriously, I just hope you don't hurt anybody. And I hope if you do, you're in a position to know that it happened and to learn from it.
I'd like to leave you with this thought experiment. You probably wouldn't feel comfortable telling a stranger on the Internet they should be taking sertraline, right? Why should you feel more comfortable telling them to take a CBD product? Do you really feel you have the context to prescribe drugs to strangers? Is that a rational belief?
No, I'll leave all of the drug recommending to the knowledgeable folks - like podcasters, and Coca-Cola!
Nobody said anything about making a health recommendation to a stranger - almost always a mistake.¹
I make recommendations to people I have taken time to know well, who are struggling and ask for help. I also tell them I'm not a doctor - and to read!
¹Which is why doctors, with no true context, offering a psychiatric diagnosis (and prescription!) after an 11 minute appointment is often also ridiculous, ineffective - and potentially harmful.
Nobody said anything about making a health recommendation to a stranger - almost always a mistake.¹
I make recommendations to people I have taken time to know well, who are struggling and ask for help. I also tell them I'm not a doctor - and to read!
¹Which is why doctors, with no true context, offering a psychiatric diagnosis (and prescription!) after an 11 minute appointment is often also ridiculous, ineffective - and potentially harmful.
You're injecting a lot of tone into a conversation where we're broadly in agreement. I'd appreciate it if you didn't do that. I'm here for discussion, not arguments.
Where I am, it can unfortunately end up being a pretty serious legal accusation to say someone's making diagnoses, or prescribing medications.
If I say these things "require a lot of context" and you respond with an insult, the natural inference is that you disagree. If it bothers you to be seen as supporting a position you don't agree with and feel may entail legal jeopardy, consider that it is entirely within your power to make a different decision about how to respond.
That's my last word on the matter. Have a good day.
That's my last word on the matter. Have a good day.
"I'm not uncomfortable with how casually people sometimes recommend these products" ≠ these things "require a lot of context"
I am comfortable with how casually people recommend CBD, especially if that replaces any % of the casual Xanax or SSRI recommendations I hear.
I am comfortable with how casually people recommend CBD, especially if that replaces any % of the casual Xanax or SSRI recommendations I hear.
I said nothing nearing an insult, or even personally about you, if one is reading and commenting within the guidelines,
which ask us to assume the most charitable interpretation of what's written.
The day was okay.
which ask us to assume the most charitable interpretation of what's written.
The day was okay.
Not sure why this is being downvoted, you're completely correct — anxiety and paranoia are well-known effects of being high on weed (depending on the strain ofc), and anxiety and depression are well-known withdrawal symptoms. And it's much worse if you're already prone to anxiety and depression.
It's not obvious to my sibling. They won't confess they have anxiety even though it's hard to have a conversation with them without heading towards the apocalypse--a change concurrent with treating so e physical disorder with edibles and smokables.
> who think it’s a cure because their anxiety is due to THc withdrawals.
You don't have any proof that this is true or not, yet you state it as fact. Lazy thinker.
You don't have any proof that this is true or not, yet you state it as fact. Lazy thinker.
I wouldn't read too much into this story, as any people who do benefit from THC probably wouldn't be visiting an emergency department for cannabis-related reasons. I'll also say, as someone with an anxiety disorder, that it certainly didn't make it worse. For me, it worked pretty much like Xanax: did wonders for my anxiety, but I couldn't manage to get anything done, so I had to switch back to my usual not-completely-effective meds.
While I don't doubt that there could be a link, it seems ridiculous that they don't (at least as far as we can tell from this article) do anything to tell if this is causation one-way or the other. Not hard to imagine that people who are starting to suffer from chronic anxiety may try self-medication before they try the emergency room.
Again, not saying there's no causation the way they imply, but basic experimental principles should tell you to try to control for this somehow, for example by looking at overall anxiety rates before and after it becomes commonly available in a given community, or comparing similar sized communities in different areas with different availability.
Again, not saying there's no causation the way they imply, but basic experimental principles should tell you to try to control for this somehow, for example by looking at overall anxiety rates before and after it becomes commonly available in a given community, or comparing similar sized communities in different areas with different availability.
I'll chime in because I've been using cannabis for over 50 years. First off, I've never suffered with anxiety. if anything, THC has been a great help in relieving that for me.
I also say that over those years there have been long spells of time when I couldn't get any weed, and again, never had issues with that either. No "withdrawal" issues or anxiety issues at all.
The only weed induced anxiety I've ever experienced was caused by knowing I could get arrested for possession, but that's never happened, and where I live now it's legal, so I don't have to worry about that anymore.
Personally, I think that the social stigma associated with "refer madness" may be related to weed induce anxiety.
But there are studies that indicate THC does affect people differently and that genetics may have something to do with that. For example, those who suffer with psychoses may have issues with weed triggering psychotic episodes, but I recently read that CBD may reduce those events.
I think it would be interesting to hear from those dealing with anxiety if CBD relieves that.
I also say that over those years there have been long spells of time when I couldn't get any weed, and again, never had issues with that either. No "withdrawal" issues or anxiety issues at all.
The only weed induced anxiety I've ever experienced was caused by knowing I could get arrested for possession, but that's never happened, and where I live now it's legal, so I don't have to worry about that anymore.
Personally, I think that the social stigma associated with "refer madness" may be related to weed induce anxiety.
But there are studies that indicate THC does affect people differently and that genetics may have something to do with that. For example, those who suffer with psychoses may have issues with weed triggering psychotic episodes, but I recently read that CBD may reduce those events.
I think it would be interesting to hear from those dealing with anxiety if CBD relieves that.
I'll throw my own anecdotal evidence in here. I found weed to be fun when I was younger, but after few years I started getting really paranoid when I smoked, like a switch was flipped in my brain. Probably after some edible overdoses. So now I mostly avoid it, or use alcohol to dull the paranoia.
I also have a lot of friends with the the same story where it was fun at first, but later just anxiety, paranoia and over thinking things. Looks like in this thread there a lot of similar stories as well.
I also have a lot of friends with the the same story where it was fun at first, but later just anxiety, paranoia and over thinking things. Looks like in this thread there a lot of similar stories as well.
I've got nothing but anecdotal evidence but I had the same thing happen to me as have at least a half dozen other people that I know.
Regular smokers for years, at some point something changed, after that point almost any amount of smoking caused enough paranoia and anxiety that they decided to stop smoking entirely.
About once a year, I think, "I'll take a quarter of an edible and watch this movie at home". 9 times out of 10 I end up having an awful night due to anxiety.
Regular smokers for years, at some point something changed, after that point almost any amount of smoking caused enough paranoia and anxiety that they decided to stop smoking entirely.
About once a year, I think, "I'll take a quarter of an edible and watch this movie at home". 9 times out of 10 I end up having an awful night due to anxiety.
I'm in this camp and have met many others too. I was a typical heavy user for a few years before over the course of a week I went from chill-out high to full-blown paranoia and insomnia. Tried weed periodically after that and always got the same intense paranoia/anxiety.
Now with edibles I can eat a very small dose (2-4mg) and just skate under the threshold for freak-out, but its a far cry from when I used to eat gummies by the mouthful and have goofy fun for hours afterwards.
Now with edibles I can eat a very small dose (2-4mg) and just skate under the threshold for freak-out, but its a far cry from when I used to eat gummies by the mouthful and have goofy fun for hours afterwards.
Fwiw, I am the opposite. When I was younger (late high school), when I would try it, I would absolutely get anxious/paranoid, which prevented me from ever wanting to do it often.
However, once I was older (late 20s), and perhaps my brain was better formed, I never had this issue again.
However, once I was older (late 20s), and perhaps my brain was better formed, I never had this issue again.
Paranoid thinking from weed in my late teens to early 20s had more to do with the fear of being caught by law enforcement and having my life turned upside down over a plant.
Same here. I got busted in Hollywood when I was 14 years old, back in 1973. I was the only juvenile in a group of about 20 people at a birthday party in an apartment building. They had a helicopter circling the building and shining a spotlight on the apartment we were in, then a group of police came through the door and arrested all of us.
They ended up dropping the charges on my case because the police didn't read me my rights before questioning me. I'd told them "I smoke weed and I'm not going to stop." The last question they asked me was "You were read your rights, right?", and I told them "No". A woman officer standing behind them looked at me and grinned and nodded her head up and down a bit. When I went to court a month or so later the prosecutor told I could go home because the case was dismissed.
But, for quite a few years after that every time I heard a helicopter hovering nearby I'd get a panic attack. It wasn't a vicious one, but I sure felt it.
They ended up dropping the charges on my case because the police didn't read me my rights before questioning me. I'd told them "I smoke weed and I'm not going to stop." The last question they asked me was "You were read your rights, right?", and I told them "No". A woman officer standing behind them looked at me and grinned and nodded her head up and down a bit. When I went to court a month or so later the prosecutor told I could go home because the case was dismissed.
But, for quite a few years after that every time I heard a helicopter hovering nearby I'd get a panic attack. It wasn't a vicious one, but I sure felt it.
Also can confirm daily use for extended period of time eventually caused me severe anxiety and depression. Perhaps the difference is we are using vape pens (at least I was) which are orders of magnitude stronger than plant. My tolerance increased and increased until I was smoking a 500mg pod almost weekly. I recently stopped cold turkey, and man it was tough. Restless nights, woke up drenched in sweat for about the first five days, shaking of hands, and lips. Whoever said that Cannabis is not physically addictive? Seems like I had physical withdraw symptoms.
I feel so much sharper now, and the fog of "war" has cleared. My work output has increased dramatically. I'm waking up earlier and feeling much more confident. I'm not against cannabis, I think in moderation can be nice, relaxing, and of course has valid medical uses.
I feel so much sharper now, and the fog of "war" has cleared. My work output has increased dramatically. I'm waking up earlier and feeling much more confident. I'm not against cannabis, I think in moderation can be nice, relaxing, and of course has valid medical uses.
I've always been of the opinion that there some people for whom marijuana provides a form pleasure, and then there is everyone else.
I've really never been able to handle it. I've experienced anxiety/paranoia but even in the absence of that, it makes me beyond stupid. My version of a little high is similar to someone knockdown, drag-out drunk.
I live where it's legal and I come in contact with it all the time. I usually regret accepting that gummy. I'm not sure there's anything I can do to better tolerate marijuana or whether the juice would at all be worth the squeeze.
I've really never been able to handle it. I've experienced anxiety/paranoia but even in the absence of that, it makes me beyond stupid. My version of a little high is similar to someone knockdown, drag-out drunk.
I live where it's legal and I come in contact with it all the time. I usually regret accepting that gummy. I'm not sure there's anything I can do to better tolerate marijuana or whether the juice would at all be worth the squeeze.
When I was in my teens kids would have contests to see who could take the most and biggest "hits" from bongs 3ft long.
I never did that. I've always taken tiny puffs because I don't like coughing, so I got called a "buzz kill" quite a few times back then.
I never did that. I've always taken tiny puffs because I don't like coughing, so I got called a "buzz kill" quite a few times back then.
> The only weed induced anxiety I've ever experienced was caused by knowing I could get arrested for possession
As a Swede I can confirm. It really feels like an 1984 situation when you sneak outside around the house blocks, knowing the angles that reduce the risk of possible "witnesses", understanding wind directions and speeds. Mostly just weed-induced paranoia, but having friends got caught really puts one on edge.
As a Swede I can confirm. It really feels like an 1984 situation when you sneak outside around the house blocks, knowing the angles that reduce the risk of possible "witnesses", understanding wind directions and speeds. Mostly just weed-induced paranoia, but having friends got caught really puts one on edge.
Here in Norway, cannabis use is pretty much equated with being a junkie. It gets hammered down from high-school, and police will treat users like career criminals. It is completely out of proportion.
As Bill Murray put it more succinctly: "I find it quite ironic that the most dangerous thing about weed is getting caught with it." which is most definitely the case here.
As Bill Murray put it more succinctly: "I find it quite ironic that the most dangerous thing about weed is getting caught with it." which is most definitely the case here.
It's a psychoactive substances, none of this is the least bit surprising.
It helps some people with anxiety and it worsens it for others.
I've smoked every day for 15 years and I'm still not addicted
how can you know? you'd need to stop to experience the withdrawal symptoms of the psychological dependence..
We don’t post memes like that here.
Is this meant to be an ironic statement?
Sounds like saying "I've drank every day for 15 years but I'm not an alcoholic."
Sounds like saying "I've drank every day for 15 years but I'm not an alcoholic."
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IMO what really matters is the THC concentration. I've suffered from generalized anxiety since early childhood, and the one time I tried typical, high-THC content recreational cannabis things didn't go well. I got a full-blown panic attack, and maybe even psychotic symptoms for a while, afterwards I wasn't sure whether I imagined some things or not. Later when I tried a CBD product I didn't have any problems, just a slight calming effect comparable to having a couple of beers.
Since then I've also found out that I probably have increased genetic likelihood of developing schizophrenia. I'll never touch anything with significant THC concentration again, just way too risky.
Since then I've also found out that I probably have increased genetic likelihood of developing schizophrenia. I'll never touch anything with significant THC concentration again, just way too risky.
You know, I've only ever had one bad experience with cannabis, and it was only bad for like 30 minutes or so (though it felt much, much longer). I made edibles, and I'd never made them before but I followed online instructions very precisely and ended up, by accident, creating extra-potent brownies.
Now, I knew before taking them how potent they were, I was licked the mixing spoon the night before, just a tiny bit here and there, and even that little bit was enough to make me relatively high. But when my friends saw how tiny the doses were, they thought I was being crazy and we all ended up getting each other to take waaaay to many, especially me, the host, which was an especially bad idea because within an hour I'd gone into my room, gotten into bed, and put on some youtube video to calm me down. Well, not very long after getting into bed I had this feeling of immense warmth and comfort, and I got super blissed out and my friends would come in to check up on me and I just gave them a thumbs up with a massive grin on my face. At some point one of my friends joined me in my room, and then sometime later I rejoined the party, which was getting along fine without me, and then we dispersed after we started to sober up.
So, all in all, it was a good experience. But I got super fucking high and I was literally starting to lose touch with reality before I sequestered myself, and my heart was beating out of my chest so hard I thought I was actually going to have a heart attack and die. I think it was easier for me to handle since I've had experience with fairly high doses of psychedelics in the past. I suppose alls well that ends well.
Now, I knew before taking them how potent they were, I was licked the mixing spoon the night before, just a tiny bit here and there, and even that little bit was enough to make me relatively high. But when my friends saw how tiny the doses were, they thought I was being crazy and we all ended up getting each other to take waaaay to many, especially me, the host, which was an especially bad idea because within an hour I'd gone into my room, gotten into bed, and put on some youtube video to calm me down. Well, not very long after getting into bed I had this feeling of immense warmth and comfort, and I got super blissed out and my friends would come in to check up on me and I just gave them a thumbs up with a massive grin on my face. At some point one of my friends joined me in my room, and then sometime later I rejoined the party, which was getting along fine without me, and then we dispersed after we started to sober up.
So, all in all, it was a good experience. But I got super fucking high and I was literally starting to lose touch with reality before I sequestered myself, and my heart was beating out of my chest so hard I thought I was actually going to have a heart attack and die. I think it was easier for me to handle since I've had experience with fairly high doses of psychedelics in the past. I suppose alls well that ends well.
The older you get the more responsibilities and also regrets you have. With more responsibilities and the feeling of not being able to manage them you feel as soon as the THC goes away, it is hard not to get anxious as you age, and it also adds more regrets which directly add to the anxiety and feeling of self-defeat and lack self-control. At least that was in my experience and the reason why I dropped it completely soon after turning 30.
Cannabis is not a dissociative drug. I think pop culture has instilled a false belief it has a calming or chill effect, but it's the opposite.
Anxiety is an evolutionary mechanism to alert the individual that something is wrong and must be dealt with. That should tell you most of you need to know about whether the it is good for you or not. If you have intolerable pain or no appetite and it solves those issues, then maybe that is worth it. In most cases and for most people, it's likely not worth it.
Cannabis lowers blood pressure and can cause tachycardia and has a statistically significant association with the development of heart failure in some users. In my own personal life, I had an episode of moderate autonomic dysfunction after taking it several times with seemingly no issue. While in the hospital the attending ER doctor told me I should probably stay away from it. That was the last time I had it. He was lighthearted and put a joke diagnosis of toxic encephalopathy on the discharge notes.
Cannabis lowers blood pressure and can cause tachycardia and has a statistically significant association with the development of heart failure in some users. In my own personal life, I had an episode of moderate autonomic dysfunction after taking it several times with seemingly no issue. While in the hospital the attending ER doctor told me I should probably stay away from it. That was the last time I had it. He was lighthearted and put a joke diagnosis of toxic encephalopathy on the discharge notes.
I'm kind of opposite of some of these postings. I got diagnosed with anxiety a bit over 3 years ago. I crashed and burned, hard.
I've been going through various prescription changes, and I'm usually ok, but I've had some really bad days over the past few months. So, after doing a lot of reading, trying to sift out the anecdata, I started an experiment where I added to my pill set, a 10 mg gummies of CBD each morning for the past month or so, and it's been a very pleasant experience.
I don't get stoned. I don't dread work. I'm generally productive with my code, and I'm not feeling overwhelmed.
It's not perfect, and I still have a bad day here and there, such as this weekend, but it's manageable now. I've actually been feeling somewhat normal, and it's good.
I've been going through various prescription changes, and I'm usually ok, but I've had some really bad days over the past few months. So, after doing a lot of reading, trying to sift out the anecdata, I started an experiment where I added to my pill set, a 10 mg gummies of CBD each morning for the past month or so, and it's been a very pleasant experience.
I don't get stoned. I don't dread work. I'm generally productive with my code, and I'm not feeling overwhelmed.
It's not perfect, and I still have a bad day here and there, such as this weekend, but it's manageable now. I've actually been feeling somewhat normal, and it's good.
I had my first experience with cannabis when I was a teenager (14 or so) (it was the Netherlands; everyone I knew smoked it); it was a piece of spacecake. After the first laughs it turned into anxiety and paranoia fast. It was horrible. I did it 2 times more with the same effect. Never again. I always say that if you want to torture me to get info (not that I have any but say I was a senator or whatever), just give me spacecake and put on some flashing lights and start shouting at me; I’ll give you whatever you want to make it stop and have Xanax.
Had a similar experience, but I was older and used more often. After that experience I was never able to use cannabis again. I'm all for legalization, but THC is not a harmless substance.
Perhaps your problem is the Xannies?
I never took any; I only know the term from people with anxiety. I don't have anxiety unless I eat spacecake :)
Just my personal anecdote: I’ve had moderate anxiety since I was a kid. When I was around 16, I tried weed for the first time and it made my anxiety far worse (in fact I had a pretty bad panic attack). Being a stupid teen susceptible to peer pressure, I tried it a few more times in my late teens and early twenties and had an extremely bad experience each time. Pretty much the same thing happened to my son, but worse. He actually used it to try to reduce his anxiety, and it did work at first, but eventually it made him worse and he had to go on anxiolytics.
I've been on and off this train. I smoked in high school, not at all in college, again in my twenties, not at all in my thirties, started again recently. I definitely have anxiety but I would not say the pot has triggered panic attacks or otherwise brought on or amplified the anxiety. That said, while the pot has a nice numbing effect for a couple hours, it certainly has not made my anxiety better and I definitely sleep much better when I haven't consumed any THC. Same goes for alcohol.
I get a strain at the dispensary that's 1:1 THC:CBD. It's a lot better for me than the high THC stuff; I can't handle those.
can confirm here, pot just causes lots of paranoia a few hours after smoking, ill stick with lexapro thanks
lexapro made me suicidal. YMMV
I'm sorry to hear that, I'm glad you're still here.
That's one of the reasons why theres a black box warning for Lexapro about the risk of suicide.
I'm told the reason behind this is a significantly anxious and depressed person may indeed be suicidal, but because of their condition are unable to effectively plan and execute the plan. Once lexapro enters the system, the individual can now plan and execute. This is why lexapro should be paired with close monitoring by a psychatrist, and individuals taking lexapro should be made aware of the risk.
Lexapro has been a life saver for me.
That's one of the reasons why theres a black box warning for Lexapro about the risk of suicide.
I'm told the reason behind this is a significantly anxious and depressed person may indeed be suicidal, but because of their condition are unable to effectively plan and execute the plan. Once lexapro enters the system, the individual can now plan and execute. This is why lexapro should be paired with close monitoring by a psychatrist, and individuals taking lexapro should be made aware of the risk.
Lexapro has been a life saver for me.
What kind of cannabis are people trying to treat their anxiety with? If it's high-THC dispensary strains and oil cartridges, no wonder; such products have hardly any medicinal value.
Dose level, too. I find being very-high terribly anxiety-inducing. I don’t like it at all.
But ~5-8mg of gummy is amazing as a sleep aid (which is largely, for me, about shutting down anxiety hard) and ~3mg (as needed, and rarely, for me) to take the edge off daytime anxiety. Lower doses are quite effective if it’s “full spectrum” and not just isolated THC. The higher (ha, ha) end of that range does “get me high” but in a pretty mild way, like having a really solid alcohol buzz but not being an unfortunate level of inebriated.
Meanwhile, I’ve given myself a very unpleasant half-hour with a single too-large puff on a strong vape pen.
When I was first getting used to it, 5mg sent me straight to bed, do not pass go, hope you didn’t have any other plans, and was a little too much.
I wonder how much of this is from people using it to get very high on purpose, or from novice medicinal users dosing too high.
But ~5-8mg of gummy is amazing as a sleep aid (which is largely, for me, about shutting down anxiety hard) and ~3mg (as needed, and rarely, for me) to take the edge off daytime anxiety. Lower doses are quite effective if it’s “full spectrum” and not just isolated THC. The higher (ha, ha) end of that range does “get me high” but in a pretty mild way, like having a really solid alcohol buzz but not being an unfortunate level of inebriated.
Meanwhile, I’ve given myself a very unpleasant half-hour with a single too-large puff on a strong vape pen.
When I was first getting used to it, 5mg sent me straight to bed, do not pass go, hope you didn’t have any other plans, and was a little too much.
I wonder how much of this is from people using it to get very high on purpose, or from novice medicinal users dosing too high.
Cannabis is like anything. It's not for everyone. Some people experience anxiety from drinking coffee. Everyone's physiology is different.
Wow, maybe people who experience high anxiety tend to self medicate?
"people looking for solutions linked to problems" very informative
This is a horrible title, that should mention the ER visit.
I mean, yeah... if you have a certain type of anxiety (maybe a little paranoia for example) then cannabis will very often exaggerate that feeling. You can very well get stuck on it. I've told new cannabis users this for quite some time.
Many people who end up in the hospital because of cannabis convince themselves they're dying, but really they're having what's closer to a bad trip. Edibles are especially prone to this because people often are impatient and end up eating too much because they don't think it's working.
Many drugs (including alcohol!) are multipliers. People need to be especially careful if they have preexisting mental illnesses, especially if they've ever experienced psychosis.
A lot of people blame poor behavior on whatever they took, but that's always a little bit of a personality tell because often they're just talking about lowered inhibitions. If that makes you a total asshole, then maybe consider why... because drugs aren't giving you new personality traits.
Many people who end up in the hospital because of cannabis convince themselves they're dying, but really they're having what's closer to a bad trip. Edibles are especially prone to this because people often are impatient and end up eating too much because they don't think it's working.
Many drugs (including alcohol!) are multipliers. People need to be especially careful if they have preexisting mental illnesses, especially if they've ever experienced psychosis.
A lot of people blame poor behavior on whatever they took, but that's always a little bit of a personality tell because often they're just talking about lowered inhibitions. If that makes you a total asshole, then maybe consider why... because drugs aren't giving you new personality traits.
Does the study differentiate between strains used?
Is this the typical case of correlation vs causation?
From personal experience, using cannabis when you’re not anxious is a pretty un pleasant experience. It causes a slight euphoria followed by severe tiredness, and nausea.
Everyone I know who used cannabis past their thirties does it out of self medication for anxiety/sleep problems.
From personal experience, using cannabis when you’re not anxious is a pretty un pleasant experience. It causes a slight euphoria followed by severe tiredness, and nausea.
Everyone I know who used cannabis past their thirties does it out of self medication for anxiety/sleep problems.
> From personal experience, using cannabis when you’re not anxious is a pretty un pleasant experience. It causes a slight euphoria followed by severe tiredness, and nausea.
This does not match my experience, which of course will vary. I don’t get any nausea for a start, and am often ingesting to assist with nausea.
Most people in their 30’s I know avoid it as it triggers their already existing anxiety. I took it up in my 30s in combination with other drugs following a spinal cord injury and it’s done nothing to assist with anxiety sadly, and has triggered some bouts, though is quite good for helping me eat.
I imagine it’s tripped my anxiety as I’ve been quite anxious since the injury and surgeries to begin with. I managed to reduce those instances by mixing with a CBD heavy strain (my THC strains are all 25% plus which is recommended for my circumstances).
This does not match my experience, which of course will vary. I don’t get any nausea for a start, and am often ingesting to assist with nausea.
Most people in their 30’s I know avoid it as it triggers their already existing anxiety. I took it up in my 30s in combination with other drugs following a spinal cord injury and it’s done nothing to assist with anxiety sadly, and has triggered some bouts, though is quite good for helping me eat.
I imagine it’s tripped my anxiety as I’ve been quite anxious since the injury and surgeries to begin with. I managed to reduce those instances by mixing with a CBD heavy strain (my THC strains are all 25% plus which is recommended for my circumstances).
ymmv but this was the case for me
Weed makes you paranoid. Who'da thunk.
Others are way better at judging a study's methodology but this immediately caught my eye. Shouldn't we also look at cannabis users who didn't visit an ER? And what else was in those people's blood at the time? THC vs CBD?
Obviously no link to the actual study so it's hard to judge really.