The big lie about sleep(businessinsider.com)
businessinsider.com
The big lie about sleep
https://www.businessinsider.com/sleep-loss-deprivation-america-reasons-health-inequality-economic-stress-money-2024-5
75 comments
> meditate
Meditation is free and does not take a lot of time. Anyone can meditate, nobody is too busy to have 15 or 20 minutes a day for meditation. The same goes for exercise. 1 hour is 4% of the day.
Meditation is free and does not take a lot of time. Anyone can meditate, nobody is too busy to have 15 or 20 minutes a day for meditation. The same goes for exercise. 1 hour is 4% of the day.
This is a very miscalculated take.
Work is minimum 8 hours. Add another 2-3 hours for commuting, getting ready for work, and getting ready for being home. Add about 2 hours for cooking and clean up.
So far we’re at 12-13 hours. Add at least 7 hours for sleep (and sometimes turning in bed). We’re now at 19-20 hours. Add about an hour a day of incidentals that come up (social expectations, phone calls with family, etc). Add about two hours if you have kids.
Now we’re at 22-23 hours. Add an hour to two for entertainment and that’s your day.
Now you can change up the math a bit, and you’ll see that “only 4% of the day” is just a bad system for measuring time.
Things I didn’t include:
- bureaucracy related stuff, governmental stuff
- healthcare
- education
- elder care
Work is minimum 8 hours. Add another 2-3 hours for commuting, getting ready for work, and getting ready for being home. Add about 2 hours for cooking and clean up.
So far we’re at 12-13 hours. Add at least 7 hours for sleep (and sometimes turning in bed). We’re now at 19-20 hours. Add about an hour a day of incidentals that come up (social expectations, phone calls with family, etc). Add about two hours if you have kids.
Now we’re at 22-23 hours. Add an hour to two for entertainment and that’s your day.
Now you can change up the math a bit, and you’ll see that “only 4% of the day” is just a bad system for measuring time.
Things I didn’t include:
- bureaucracy related stuff, governmental stuff
- healthcare
- education
- elder care
It's not miscalculated. The calculation is exactly right. It's really about how you choose to spend that time.
The time split you did isn't set in stone, you can change most of that. Don't cook for an hour, move cleaning up into the weekend. 2-3 hours is a long commute, consider remote work or getting a job closer to where you are. 8 hours is a typical office workday but other arrangements are possible from contract work to 4-on-4-off type jobs.
I'm not saying that changing these things matches your lifestyle or what you want to do, simply that they are within your means to change (very likely) and that they are a decision. Even a decision that's not consciously made, like falling into a routine that everyone is doing, is ultimately a decision.
The time split you did isn't set in stone, you can change most of that. Don't cook for an hour, move cleaning up into the weekend. 2-3 hours is a long commute, consider remote work or getting a job closer to where you are. 8 hours is a typical office workday but other arrangements are possible from contract work to 4-on-4-off type jobs.
I'm not saying that changing these things matches your lifestyle or what you want to do, simply that they are within your means to change (very likely) and that they are a decision. Even a decision that's not consciously made, like falling into a routine that everyone is doing, is ultimately a decision.
A commute of 2-3 hours means you have lots of time to meditate or read, if that's something you want to do.
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Again, I'm sure that everyone has 10 spare minutes each day at a minimum to meditate. You can meditate even during a commute. It's your choice to make the time if it's important to you. Nobody is so busy to be unable to meditate even for 10-15 minutes.
The biggest of all: childcare
> It comes down to being rich, not being required to work, no boss, not submit vacation days a year in advance, able to get quality healthcare whenever needed or electively wanted, have time to exercise, meditate, and eliminate any worries or concerns with money that you rarely care about the costs.
You can have all of this and be middle class if that's what you prioritize instead of Keeping Up with the Joneses.
You will likely not have both, though.
You can have all of this and be middle class if that's what you prioritize instead of Keeping Up with the Joneses.
You will likely not have both, though.
> It comes down to being rich, not being required to work, no boss
> You can have all of this and be middle class
???
> You can have all of this and be middle class
???
The Joneses became the central banks so good luck ignoring them.
This is the reality that nobody wants to accept as the root cause of these problems
Hamilton is basically Sweeney Todd for the historically literate.
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I keep telling my kids that a vastly overlooked trick to success is going to bed earlier and getting more sleep. That and gratitude (which is why our family has evening rituals around this).
It was so hard for me to actually do that as a kid. You basically wake up, off to school, off to extracurricular, off to dinner, off to homework, and off to bed if you want a chance at 8 hours of sleep. Five days a week of that and your parents probably fill up your weekends for you. Oh and I worked in high school so that was shoehorned in somehow.
Staying up late cutting into sleep time was the only time of day I actually had any agency. College in contrast was amazing for sleep. No one pestering me out of rem because I was allowed to sleep in until my body said I had enough for the first time in my life. Even now after college I rarely get the luxury to sleep in anymore, and I mean really sleep in like until almost noon.
Staying up late cutting into sleep time was the only time of day I actually had any agency. College in contrast was amazing for sleep. No one pestering me out of rem because I was allowed to sleep in until my body said I had enough for the first time in my life. Even now after college I rarely get the luxury to sleep in anymore, and I mean really sleep in like until almost noon.
I get why parents make kids do extracurriculars (US college admissions arms race), and I get that school starts very early in the US (7:30 IIRC), and I get that some kids just have to work to bring in more money.
But not allowing your kids to sleep in on weekends ever is just crazy and seems unnecessary.
But not allowing your kids to sleep in on weekends ever is just crazy and seems unnecessary.
To be fair there ware plenty of unavoidable things to do or even things I wanted to do. But still all of that is incompatible with sleeping until noon which I could easily do with the work week deprivation, since you then need time to get ready to leave the house, and not everything you do on weekends starts in the late afternoon.
Similar problem for working parents, ever minute is spoken for. When everyone is asleep, the dishes are done, and you are alone it’s finally time to yourself. I like the phrase of having “agency” — that really captures the urge.
Too many extracurriculars / “overshcheduling” is an easy trap for people of all ages. So easy to sacrifice sleep because there is always something more fun or productive (short term) to do! Before our youngest was born I was just taking care of our boys when they weren’t in school and even with a schoolday’s worth of discretionary time, I still stayed up too late on the computer and didn’t get enough sleep. With the new baby, things reached a tipping point and I am now trying to make sleep a priority.. so far I am learning that yes it does feel bad “sacrificing” things for sleep, but I do feel better overall when more rested so how important were those things after all? This is especially counter intuitive when I’d defer sleep for “self soothing” activities but then being chronically under-slept was the leading cause of needing soothing!! Anyway, thanks for coming to my ted talk.
One fact about teenagers is that their circadian rhythms are shifted compared to adults and younger kids: their bodies will fight to fall asleep later and wake up later.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/
The worst part of my teenage years was having parents who believed this. It’s as silly as saying, “just calm down.”
I’d of loved to have been physiologically capable, as a teenager, of going to bed early and getting up early, especially in a northern climate where the sun is up at 9pm.
I’d of loved to have been physiologically capable, as a teenager, of going to bed early and getting up early, especially in a northern climate where the sun is up at 9pm.
Honest question: why do you think gratitude is a trick for success? I can understand for happiness, but don't you think gratitude is often at conflict with the inner drive needed for success?
I find gratitude to be helpful for success because when I'm grateful for what I already have, I feel successful and it primes me to do more, you know success begets success and all that
Fyi I was homeless 4 years ago and just bought my first house in 2022 so I guess I'm a pretty big believer in re-programming myself:)
Because gratitude lowers stress levels :)
No, I'd argue they're orthogonal. A purely self made man or woman is a rarity these days. Showing gratitude is a low cost way to strengthen your support network.
This[0] study might have some pointers in the discussion section.
[0] Grateful students are motivated, engaged, and successful in school: Cross-sectional, longitudinal, and experimental evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30340699/
[0] Grateful students are motivated, engaged, and successful in school: Cross-sectional, longitudinal, and experimental evidence, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30340699/
> a vastly overlooked trick to success
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
"Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise."
Going to bed earlier and waking up earlier
> When it comes to slumber, what matters most is how rich you are.
Looking at their sleep map, that swath of good sleep down the middle of the country seems to go against that, and isn't mentioned in the article (unless I missed it). Most of Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, and Colorado aren't "rich", but they get the best sleep. Wisconsin is slightly worse than those, but still rather good, and likely the only reason they're not great is that it's the state with the highest alcohol consumption.
Looking at their sleep map, that swath of good sleep down the middle of the country seems to go against that, and isn't mentioned in the article (unless I missed it). Most of Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, and Colorado aren't "rich", but they get the best sleep. Wisconsin is slightly worse than those, but still rather good, and likely the only reason they're not great is that it's the state with the highest alcohol consumption.
Even more interesting is how the swaths are angled across the whole country, at just about the same angle as when sunrise actually is: https://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2022/03/18/sunrise-time...
I immediately thought temperature and humidity.
But of course correlation yada yada causation.
But of course correlation yada yada causation.
The "worst sleep" map is just two demographics: African Americans and Appalachians.
https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/charts/22
https://artsandsciences.sc.edu/appalachianenglish/node/783
https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/charts/22
https://artsandsciences.sc.edu/appalachianenglish/node/783
Ok, I read the article. But I still don't know what the big lie is.
I think the big lie is that wellness companies, doctors, and sleep widget salespeople claim that you can improve your sleep with blackout curtains, less screen time, exercise, fancy tech, and a host of other strategies. But this article is saying that being healthier and richer improve your sleep more dramatically, and those are things that are not directly in your control.
I don't see how proving that sleep correlates with wealth disproves that those things work whatsoever, because those things are expensive.
All those things seem to work and most don't even trick you in any way, you get the results immediately. Blackout curtains, exercise, less screen time — all very effective strategies. A sleep schedule is another one.
It may be less effective trying to become rich or healthier without improving one's sleep schedule. Besides, the article says:
> Americans with sleep disorders earn an average of $2,500 less each year than their well-rested peers.
And 2.5k gross per annum is not a large gap to bridge. Imagine getting a $1k promotion and spending $125 less on something each month — is your sleep automatically fixed? No, it's a ridiculous idea. There is much more control we have over our sleep schedules (most of the people, there are exceptions) than our economic situation does.
People just need to take responsibility for their own actions. Being economically not as well off as someone else is just a convenient scape-goat. There will always be people richer than any other given person. That doesn't mean this given person is now barred from having a healthy sleep schedule.
While the correlation may exist, and even some small degree of causation, it is ridiculous to think that $2.5k per year extra will somehow give anyone more sleep, unless that money (after tax) is specifically going towards sleep treatments. But I think maybe less than 1% of all Americans at any given point are saving up for sleep treatments which are kept just very barely out of reach by their income. And very few Americans are in other such contrived scenarios where they really need that $2.5k to sleep well.
It may be less effective trying to become rich or healthier without improving one's sleep schedule. Besides, the article says:
> Americans with sleep disorders earn an average of $2,500 less each year than their well-rested peers.
And 2.5k gross per annum is not a large gap to bridge. Imagine getting a $1k promotion and spending $125 less on something each month — is your sleep automatically fixed? No, it's a ridiculous idea. There is much more control we have over our sleep schedules (most of the people, there are exceptions) than our economic situation does.
People just need to take responsibility for their own actions. Being economically not as well off as someone else is just a convenient scape-goat. There will always be people richer than any other given person. That doesn't mean this given person is now barred from having a healthy sleep schedule.
While the correlation may exist, and even some small degree of causation, it is ridiculous to think that $2.5k per year extra will somehow give anyone more sleep, unless that money (after tax) is specifically going towards sleep treatments. But I think maybe less than 1% of all Americans at any given point are saving up for sleep treatments which are kept just very barely out of reach by their income. And very few Americans are in other such contrived scenarios where they really need that $2.5k to sleep well.
> that being healthier and richer improve your sleep
Either that or, apparently, living in Nebraska or Minnesota
Either that or, apparently, living in Nebraska or Minnesota
It's not a very good article and I don't agree with it.
If it was entirely wealth-based, the map should correlate to this map of counties ranked by personal income, but there are clearly differences:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_counties...
If it was entirely wealth-based, the map should correlate to this map of counties ranked by personal income, but there are clearly differences:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_counties...
Studies show that those with worst sleep have worse health and sleep habits.
So it’s the persons decision to not have good health habits which result in poorer health and poorer sleep. The article has got causation mixed up.
So it’s the persons decision to not have good health habits which result in poorer health and poorer sleep. The article has got causation mixed up.
When we moved into our current house it's the first time I'd slept in a room with roller shutters. The difference they make to a good night's sleep (for me at least) is huge.
That you can sleep through the class struggle? Workers of the world awake!
I like that they let you subscribe with Apple Pay, but I wish I could just pay $0.50 for the one article. I would pay. It’d be much less friction than either finding a proxy to read it for free, or subscribing properly and the dealing with the unsubscribe process which can be very difficult.
But if they did that they couldn’t send you to a retention specialist when you want to cancel! And automatically switch to your reissued credit card when the old one expires, counting on you to forget that subscription and be a lifelong customer and maybe even for a few years after if they’re lucky.
I really think the major credit card companies missed a tremendous opportunity by not figuring out micropayments. They have the infrastructure to be the ones to figure this out, but they didn't.
Just drop the flat fee. Stripe is 2.9% + 30c. If they did 3% and no flat fee, then on $1 you'd get 97 cents instead of less than 70. I assume the CC companies are charging a flat fee too...unless that's just Stripe's own thing.
I genuinely think that people who spread the idea that your individual outcome is significantly dependent on the statistical average for a cohort you are in are responsible for a _lot_ of suffering and lost potential.
Literally any effort you put in at all means that you are no longer the average in most cohorts. It's simply bad science.
Literally any effort you put in at all means that you are no longer the average in most cohorts. It's simply bad science.
If anyone wants to learn more I found Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker to be a good read:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep
* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Walker_(scientist)
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Sleep
* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34466963-why-we-sleep
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Walker_(scientist)
Would you recommend some more? Really interested in that topic but find it difficult to find a good sources
Try the classic from 1976 to get an idea of what thinking on this was at the time funding for sleep science started: Some Must Watch While Some Must Sleep (Dement, 1976, 1978): https://archive.org/details/somemustwatchwhi00dem_3n2 (1978 edition)
That book is full of scientific errors and probably one of the most misleading pop-science books in recent history
https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
> On the other end of the spectrum is Boulder County, Colorado, which you might call the sleep capital of America
That city is famous for attracting a bunch of people who love hiking and climbing mountains. It isn't a good example here, it is just full of young people who love to exercise, of course they are healthier! Just having an average age of 28.5 years have a dramatic impact on sleep statistics!
There are many other numbers in the articles that are strange, like here they compare average employed people to 13% of unemployed people, that could be true for a single population so it doesn't tell us anything!
> in a 2020 study, 13% of newly unemployed people said they got four hours of sleep or less a night, half of what the average employed person gets
That city is famous for attracting a bunch of people who love hiking and climbing mountains. It isn't a good example here, it is just full of young people who love to exercise, of course they are healthier! Just having an average age of 28.5 years have a dramatic impact on sleep statistics!
There are many other numbers in the articles that are strange, like here they compare average employed people to 13% of unemployed people, that could be true for a single population so it doesn't tell us anything!
> in a 2020 study, 13% of newly unemployed people said they got four hours of sleep or less a night, half of what the average employed person gets
>It isn't a good example here, it is just full of young people who love to exercise, of course they are healthier!
Same how some Eastern European countries like Czechia top alcohol consumption per capita charts, when the numbers are pushed up by tourists going there to get shitfaced.
Touristic cities that attract a lot of people for one thing or the other should just be excluded from some statistics.
Same how some Eastern European countries like Czechia top alcohol consumption per capita charts, when the numbers are pushed up by tourists going there to get shitfaced.
Touristic cities that attract a lot of people for one thing or the other should just be excluded from some statistics.
What's the math here? Austria gets 2-3 times as many tourists per capita, but consumes 20% less. Tourists spent 56 million nights in Czechia in 2023, while the 10 million residents presumably spend a bit less than 365 nights in the country: how big of an impact could there be?
I can see how the argument would apply to certain cities or resort regions, i.e. I bet Palma de Mallorca has a much higher daily consumption during the summer season than in the winter.
I can see how the argument would apply to certain cities or resort regions, i.e. I bet Palma de Mallorca has a much higher daily consumption during the summer season than in the winter.
No one is going to Vienna for a stag party, so tourists per capita may not tell the whole story.
Not just young but very fit and athletic. It's hard to not fall asleep quickly if you've spent the day hiking.
I am reasonably fit but felt very ashamed of my body when I visited Boulder.
I am reasonably fit but felt very ashamed of my body when I visited Boulder.
>Big, structural changes such as better access to affordable healthcare, expanding income-support programs like the child tax credit, and implementing mental-health programs in schools would go a long way to ending the sleep-deprivation doom loop.
Citation needed.
All of these exist in some places and don't in others, in varying degrees, so in theory a study should be able to look at the effects.
Citation needed.
All of these exist in some places and don't in others, in varying degrees, so in theory a study should be able to look at the effects.
this was my first thought. coming from a country that provides this, and having laws that don't allow you to work more than 48 hours a week (with overtime) helps a lot to make sure that people get enough sleep.
Richer people are happier, healthier, live longer, less stressed, and have a better quality of life. Is this a surprise to anyone?
This is such a toxic take. There actually is a lot people can do to help their sleep. Framing it like they did makes it seem like there is nothing people can do.
Then I think they got causation mixed up. Studies show that night owls have less self control, worse sleep and health habits.
Then I think they got causation mixed up. Studies show that night owls have less self control, worse sleep and health habits.
Why post an article that's behind a firewall that only subscribers can read?
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to provide another example of the sane big lie but in the context of ‘being informed’
It's not that way for everyone but for those it is you can prepend archive.is/ to the url and read it that way.
Allowing paywall sites without ever mentioning the site almost relies on users doing the above is one of the policies I find most annoying on the site. Seems to trip most everyone up.
Allowing paywall sites without ever mentioning the site almost relies on users doing the above is one of the policies I find most annoying on the site. Seems to trip most everyone up.
Super disappointed by the article, but 100% because I read the title as "The big lie about sheep" and was super interested in finding out what _that_ lie was. Now I want that article to exist.
why do you have to be rich for good sleep hygiene? all you need is ...
... a regular sleep schedule
... time to mediate before going to sleep
... a dedicated sleeping room
... a mattress that actively controls its temperature to help you cool down
... a light alarm clock
... avoid stress
... special heavy weight blanket
... a calm and silent environment
and that's about it already.
i would also personally recommend to avoid financial stress and hardship by instructing your family office or portfolio manager to invest more conservatively.
... a regular sleep schedule
... time to mediate before going to sleep
... a dedicated sleeping room
... a mattress that actively controls its temperature to help you cool down
... a light alarm clock
... avoid stress
... special heavy weight blanket
... a calm and silent environment
and that's about it already.
i would also personally recommend to avoid financial stress and hardship by instructing your family office or portfolio manager to invest more conservatively.
For some of that you do not need to be rich. But agree calm and silent environment is indeed a luxury
So, the lie is that you can only do so much to improve your sleep while poor and working.
It comes down to being rich, not being required to work, no boss, not submit vacation days a year in advance, able to get quality healthcare whenever needed or electively wanted, have time to exercise, meditate, and eliminate any worries or concerns with money that you rarely care about the costs.
There’s a lot of sleep hackers I’ve looked into who dive into EEG scalp mounted machines worn at night, 8sleep active waterbed addon coolers with sleep data, or sleep bands/rings. The latest is tracking and improving HRV heart rate variability numbers.