Japan and South Korea see surge of suicides among young women(washingtonpost.com)
washingtonpost.com
Japan and South Korea see surge of suicides among young women
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/japan-suicides-pandemic-women/2020/11/28/0617e3a2-fdbd-11ea-b0e4-350e4e60cc91_story.html
74 comments
> Seems strange to single out one gender here.
Is it really? Male suicide increased 20% yoy, which is significant but… female suicide increased 80%. That is much more worrying if it's a trend.
Is it really? Male suicide increased 20% yoy, which is significant but… female suicide increased 80%. That is much more worrying if it's a trend.
It's a bit unclear why it's particularly worrying that women might eventually have a suicide rate of X if a trend continues while men actually do have a suicide rate of X and have had that for decades.
Because for every X suicides there are Y attempts, and that Y is statistically greater for women than it is for men (men generally tend to choose more lethal methods of suicide).
Why should we weight the life of a person who attempts to kill themselves three times as three times as valuable as the life of someone who succeeds on the first attempt?
Even within a given category of method of suicide, men have a greater success rate. Places where the most efficacious method of killing yourself (guns) are banned still maintain a ~3:1 male:female suicide death ratio.
A naive read on suicide attempt:success rates suggest that men are literally 10x as effective of women in achieving their aims. That's the kind of ratio that suggests that there's something big not being captured in the statistics, and in that case it's important to focus on the more objective measure (a death by suicide) than something relatively subjective (a suicide attempt)
Even within a given category of method of suicide, men have a greater success rate. Places where the most efficacious method of killing yourself (guns) are banned still maintain a ~3:1 male:female suicide death ratio.
A naive read on suicide attempt:success rates suggest that men are literally 10x as effective of women in achieving their aims. That's the kind of ratio that suggests that there's something big not being captured in the statistics, and in that case it's important to focus on the more objective measure (a death by suicide) than something relatively subjective (a suicide attempt)
Hmmm... then I don't know. Should have clarified that it was more of a guess than a solid answer.
So... Maybe the cause of this surge is just that women have become more effective in their attempts?
Maybe more Japanese women feel lonely and cut off from friends due to Covid. While more Japanese men were already lonely and cut off from friends even before Covid.
Firstly, it's not yoy. It's for one arbitrary month. It's not a trend. And it's insignificant. Suicides make up a tiny percentage of japan's death and population. Sure every suicide is tragic but it's really not a serious problem. Their 30 year economic stagnation and their low birthrate is far greater concern than suicide. It's the washingtonpost earning money by fetishizing japan/suicide and virtue signaling. It's one of the many problems with news. It's not that they report news, they have to manufacture news every single day. On slow news day, it's back to "japan suicides".
Also, wasn't there a study that said news of suicide actually contributed to more suicides? That spamming national suicide hotlines across social media actually increased suicides. That most people, including borderline suicidal people, don't think about suicide until it is broadcast all over news/social media?
Also, wasn't there a study that said news of suicide actually contributed to more suicides? That spamming national suicide hotlines across social media actually increased suicides. That most people, including borderline suicidal people, don't think about suicide until it is broadcast all over news/social media?
The male increase looks more in line with the prior year fluctuations. The female increase is way more pronounced. Though I think universally, male suicide count is always higher, regardless of country.
It varies and I am still reading data, but globally that seems to be the case.
https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.sdg.3-4-data?lang=en
There are a few exceptions. Zimbabwe, Somalia, Kenya, Liberia, etc.
https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.sdg.3-4-data?lang=en
There are a few exceptions. Zimbabwe, Somalia, Kenya, Liberia, etc.
To explain this: in many places women attempt suicide at high rates. If women start using a more lethal method the rate of death will increase to be similar to men. There are some factors that we think are protective that we use to help explain the difference in rates of death between men and women (more likely to be part of a family, more likely to ask for help, more likely to have contact with health care, less likely to use a more dangerous method, etc etc) and if these factors are changing for women we need to understand what's going on because understanding will also help us protect men.
All suicide prevention focuses on middle aged men because that's the highest risk group, but they don't ignore other groups.
All suicide prevention focuses on middle aged men because that's the highest risk group, but they don't ignore other groups.
We've been hearing about male suicide rates for years. The female suicide rate is the story because it's different.
In the United States the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline can be reached at 1-800-273-8255 or over chat at https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
In Japan, the Health Ministry website has contacts for people to find support by phone or online. https://www.mhlw.go.jp/mamorouyokokoro/
In South Korea, the Korea Suicide Prevention Center operates a 24-hour hotline at 1393. http://www.suicideprevention.or.kr/main/index.html
In Japan, the Health Ministry website has contacts for people to find support by phone or online. https://www.mhlw.go.jp/mamorouyokokoro/
In South Korea, the Korea Suicide Prevention Center operates a 24-hour hotline at 1393. http://www.suicideprevention.or.kr/main/index.html
Remember, if you are in the US at least, and someone tells you they aren't ok, and you recommend a crisis line, and they mention anything regarding suicide, they are very likely going to be extracted from their living situation by physical force and end up incarcerated against their will, at very high expense to themselves, potentially in a way that could lose them their current housing or employment.
If their life was going poorly before that, it sure won't be better after.
The record of this could follow you around for life as well.
I understand this is considered conventional wisdom to recommend these help lines but I really think you should rethink that.
If their life was going poorly before that, it sure won't be better after.
The record of this could follow you around for life as well.
I understand this is considered conventional wisdom to recommend these help lines but I really think you should rethink that.
In addition to all those negatives, they don't do much help either. As if a phone call to a stranger will make any difference to someone who's contemplating suicide.
Suicide prevention workers I know are WELL AWARE that US emergency services (police, ambulance) only have one tool available to them -- grabbing and restraining the subject. And they're very much aware of the disadvantages of that. So they avoid calling the cops whenever they can.
To say callers to hotlines are "very likely" to be grabbed is incorrect. Seriously.
To say callers to hotlines are "very likely" to be grabbed is incorrect. Seriously.
> “Many of those who reach us say they have no place to go when they’re told to stay home,” said Jun Tachibana of the Bond Project. “Many are having problems with their family, friends or boyfriends. I worry they may be feeling more lonely.”
Unfortunately, this article's diagnosing of the problem as loneliness misses the mark entirely. I don't think loneliness alone should account for this 80% increase in female suicides – there is an insidious assumption here, that women are somehow less able to "deal" with being alone, to such a severe extent that they are driven to suicide. Additionally, in the same sentence, Jun Tachibana mentioned that the women are "having problems with their family, friends, or boyfriends" – not that they don't have these interactions, but that these interactions are the source of problems.
What the article was woefully remiss in addressing at all is the increased rates of domestic abuse and child abuse that has happened in Japan in the last few years [1]. Domestic abuse in Japan has increased year to year for 16 consecutive years. (I am not sure why, but I do know it's a taboo topic in Japan. See Kore-ada's film Shoplifters about the government response to this situation, and its myopic insistence that the nuclear family solves all). Additionally (in the US, for instance), we have seen domestic abuse rates soar during the pandemic [2]. As per the source: "Disturbingly, the data suggested that the pandemic has produced many new offenders: reports coming from city blocks with no previous record of domestic violence were the main drivers of the increase."
These two factors together with Japan's complicated history with suicide and shame actually provide a much clearer (and sad) picture of the possible cause of an increase in suicide for women.
[1] – https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/03/e788d95b8fc7-dome... [2] – https://phys.org/news/2020-08-domestic-violence-pandemic.htm...
Unfortunately, this article's diagnosing of the problem as loneliness misses the mark entirely. I don't think loneliness alone should account for this 80% increase in female suicides – there is an insidious assumption here, that women are somehow less able to "deal" with being alone, to such a severe extent that they are driven to suicide. Additionally, in the same sentence, Jun Tachibana mentioned that the women are "having problems with their family, friends, or boyfriends" – not that they don't have these interactions, but that these interactions are the source of problems.
What the article was woefully remiss in addressing at all is the increased rates of domestic abuse and child abuse that has happened in Japan in the last few years [1]. Domestic abuse in Japan has increased year to year for 16 consecutive years. (I am not sure why, but I do know it's a taboo topic in Japan. See Kore-ada's film Shoplifters about the government response to this situation, and its myopic insistence that the nuclear family solves all). Additionally (in the US, for instance), we have seen domestic abuse rates soar during the pandemic [2]. As per the source: "Disturbingly, the data suggested that the pandemic has produced many new offenders: reports coming from city blocks with no previous record of domestic violence were the main drivers of the increase."
These two factors together with Japan's complicated history with suicide and shame actually provide a much clearer (and sad) picture of the possible cause of an increase in suicide for women.
[1] – https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/03/e788d95b8fc7-dome... [2] – https://phys.org/news/2020-08-domestic-violence-pandemic.htm...
Is that really an insidious assumption to you, or are you trying too hard to be gender-blind?
I've been around for a while now, and it's an indisputable fact in my mind that men cope far better with loneliness than women. From seeing friends and strangers in my personal life, to less tangible understandings of evolutionary pressures and general rates of extroversion/introversion between women and men, it's frankly odd to me that such an uncontroversial statement could give anyone pause.
I've been around for a while now, and it's an indisputable fact in my mind that men cope far better with loneliness than women. From seeing friends and strangers in my personal life, to less tangible understandings of evolutionary pressures and general rates of extroversion/introversion between women and men, it's frankly odd to me that such an uncontroversial statement could give anyone pause.
It is an insidious assumption to me, personally. I have been living on my own since midway through the pandemic, and have been enjoying it. My productivity has gone through the roof, and I feel grateful to be alive – I've enjoyed the ability to spend time rediscovering who I am when not constrained by constant micro-pressures of social gatherings. The best is the endless ability to cancel social engagements without feeling any repercussions – there's always the excuse of the pandemic.
My mother has also consciously decided to live completely on her own throughout this time, and I've seen her make some tremendous personal growth during this time (more than in the past 20 years, which were filled with a handful of male partners).
Being familiar with Japan's recent problematic (lack of) discourse around the issue of domestic abuse, this statement (especially on the heels of the women telling the source that they have problems with family and boyfriends) seemed facile.
I'm startled by your use of "indisputable fact" there – anything branded as "indisputable fact" is a lofty claim, especially when it comes to lived experience or subjective states of others. We're just willing to no longer investigate the cause of this sudden jump in suicides, because we can simply write it off as "normal" loneliness? I don't like it when others presume to tell me what is "normal" for my (or any) gender, especially when a mysterious jump in mortality is involved.
My mother has also consciously decided to live completely on her own throughout this time, and I've seen her make some tremendous personal growth during this time (more than in the past 20 years, which were filled with a handful of male partners).
Being familiar with Japan's recent problematic (lack of) discourse around the issue of domestic abuse, this statement (especially on the heels of the women telling the source that they have problems with family and boyfriends) seemed facile.
I'm startled by your use of "indisputable fact" there – anything branded as "indisputable fact" is a lofty claim, especially when it comes to lived experience or subjective states of others. We're just willing to no longer investigate the cause of this sudden jump in suicides, because we can simply write it off as "normal" loneliness? I don't like it when others presume to tell me what is "normal" for my (or any) gender, especially when a mysterious jump in mortality is involved.
>We're just willing to no longer investigate the cause of this sudden jump in suicides, because we can simply write it off as "normal" loneliness?
That's quite a leap there. I understand there are many societal problems plaguing Japan, and other comments have eluded to Japan's very low birthrates which are also indicative of these factors. It's not an insidious assumption that this year's isolation may have contributed to that phenomenon, especially for women, who generally require more socialisation than men.
There may not be much common ground here though. I don't personally know anybody who uses terms like "micro-pressures" or "problematic", all of the women of my mother's age (including my parents) have been happily married for decades (and my mum's main source of joy through this time has been getting out to see her many children and grandchildren as often as permitted), and I think most people in my family would be at least a little troubled if a young relative was proud of her increases in "productivity" in isolation.
We're from different worlds!
That's quite a leap there. I understand there are many societal problems plaguing Japan, and other comments have eluded to Japan's very low birthrates which are also indicative of these factors. It's not an insidious assumption that this year's isolation may have contributed to that phenomenon, especially for women, who generally require more socialisation than men.
There may not be much common ground here though. I don't personally know anybody who uses terms like "micro-pressures" or "problematic", all of the women of my mother's age (including my parents) have been happily married for decades (and my mum's main source of joy through this time has been getting out to see her many children and grandchildren as often as permitted), and I think most people in my family would be at least a little troubled if a young relative was proud of her increases in "productivity" in isolation.
We're from different worlds!
"Japan and South Korea are among the few countries to issue current data on suicides"
Why don't more countries do this?
Why don't more countries do this?
There are complications of counting and registering death that make real time data hard to provide.
When talking about suicide we have roughly 3 different definitions.
1) That used by coroners or medical examiners. This is normally a tight definition that will exclude some deaths. It's often along the lines of "the deceased ended their life and intended to do so". Sometimes that has to be proved to a high standard. (EG, in England until very recently it had to be shown "beyond all reasonable doubt").
2) That used by national statistics organisations. These will use causes of death mentioned on death certificates and then try to code the cause of death using ICD10, and then combine these with coroners inquests. These tend to be robust and accurate, although you need to understand what coding they use and when the deaths happened.
Both of these tend to have lags in. The first needs to wait for coroners to hold an inquest. The second needs to wait for all the data to be sent in and coded and compiled.
The 3rd definition is much broader. It takes real time data from police, hospital, and coroners (but before an inquest has happened). It's sometimes called "real time monitoring" data. Because it uses data from coroners before inquests have happened it sometimes avoids the word suicide and uses phrases like "suspected self-inflicted deaths" instead. We use this data to in suicide prevention when looking at frequently used locations or emerging clusters.
When talking about suicide we have roughly 3 different definitions.
1) That used by coroners or medical examiners. This is normally a tight definition that will exclude some deaths. It's often along the lines of "the deceased ended their life and intended to do so". Sometimes that has to be proved to a high standard. (EG, in England until very recently it had to be shown "beyond all reasonable doubt").
2) That used by national statistics organisations. These will use causes of death mentioned on death certificates and then try to code the cause of death using ICD10, and then combine these with coroners inquests. These tend to be robust and accurate, although you need to understand what coding they use and when the deaths happened.
Both of these tend to have lags in. The first needs to wait for coroners to hold an inquest. The second needs to wait for all the data to be sent in and coded and compiled.
The 3rd definition is much broader. It takes real time data from police, hospital, and coroners (but before an inquest has happened). It's sometimes called "real time monitoring" data. Because it uses data from coroners before inquests have happened it sometimes avoids the word suicide and uses phrases like "suspected self-inflicted deaths" instead. We use this data to in suicide prevention when looking at frequently used locations or emerging clusters.
To be clear, other countries do report suicide data, just not on a month-to-month basis. There's any number of statistics that a government could spend their time compiling each month, and it's not obvious that suicide numbers should necessarily be a top priority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...
Maybe the writer used Bing to proof his argument.
Maybe the writer used Bing to proof his argument.
The wiki article uses historical data, not 2020 numbers.
>Suicide rates by country in 2016 (per 100 000 people, age-adjusted)
>List by other sources and years (1985–2018)
BTW 2020 is not over, so it should be clear that those numbers are not out ATM
>List by other sources and years (1985–2018)
BTW 2020 is not over, so it should be clear that those numbers are not out ATM
Social media, the perfect lives of women and men where your life SEEMS miserable in comparison to theirs.
Perhaps a dating app, that helps the suicidal find love would help. If you feel rejected by your society, a bridge to another society might help.
Because you're definitely at your best when you're suicidal, and are not at all likely to be a toxic partner.
Sometimes the answer isn't another stupid app.
Sometimes the answer isn't another stupid app.
The "I'm suicidal dating app", that definitely would have a negative impact on both individuals.
People need to understand that you can't fix being suicidal by love or buying things.
People need to understand that you can't fix being suicidal by love or buying things.
Not all suicides are because of a "chemical imbalance" whatever that means.
Simple things, like being broke, and not having a job. Or being rejected by your love prospects. Are reasons why people kill themselves too.Being on a negative spiral, and a number of things going wrong and finding yourself in a desperate situation is pretty common thing.
If you provide hope, and path to something better, there just might be quite a few people that would take it.
Simple things, like being broke, and not having a job. Or being rejected by your love prospects. Are reasons why people kill themselves too.Being on a negative spiral, and a number of things going wrong and finding yourself in a desperate situation is pretty common thing.
If you provide hope, and path to something better, there just might be quite a few people that would take it.
Ah right, because using other tried and tested methods like providing everyone better mental healthcare options are boring. Just make an app! Apps solve everything! Apps! Apps! Apps!
Oh right but providing better mental healthcare doesn't allow for people to receive bogus investements for their overhyped app and make millions.
That's why it's not an option.
Oh right but providing better mental healthcare doesn't allow for people to receive bogus investements for their overhyped app and make millions.
That's why it's not an option.
> If you feel rejected by your society, a bridge to another society might help.
While I understand you're trying to be helpful, what you need to understand is that suicidal ideation and "feeling rejected by your society" are not synonymous. There can be a relationship, sure- but suicide, by and large, comes from a mentality where the victim legitimately believes they will not ever be happy enough in the future to counter-balance the pain that's consuming them in the present. In their despair, they truly believe that suicide is the only way they can end the suffering. In their minds, this is quite literally their only hope. To say that this is caused by feeling rejected by society is extremely narrow, so please be aware of that.
This having been said, trying to begin a relationship while in the throes of depression is not a good idea. If you can't love yourself, it sows the seeds for a highly unhealthy dependent or codependent relationship- even someone who isn't actively considering ending their life can't thrive like that.
Finally, consider this: let's say the person using this app is indeed suicidal because they feel like they've been rejected by society- dating apps are infamous for short-lived relationships, rejection, and predatory subscription models (search hn and you will find any number of threads discussing this last one). Even if this is a truly altruistic service without a predatory subscription model, what do you think someone who is in the depths of despair will do if they're rejected by a community that markets itself as a haven for the rejected? If they weren't at the very edge of suicide before, how much closer did they just get pushed?
In short, be aware that there's a fair bit more going on than "maybe they feel lonely." I suspect this approach would do more harm than good.
While I understand you're trying to be helpful, what you need to understand is that suicidal ideation and "feeling rejected by your society" are not synonymous. There can be a relationship, sure- but suicide, by and large, comes from a mentality where the victim legitimately believes they will not ever be happy enough in the future to counter-balance the pain that's consuming them in the present. In their despair, they truly believe that suicide is the only way they can end the suffering. In their minds, this is quite literally their only hope. To say that this is caused by feeling rejected by society is extremely narrow, so please be aware of that.
This having been said, trying to begin a relationship while in the throes of depression is not a good idea. If you can't love yourself, it sows the seeds for a highly unhealthy dependent or codependent relationship- even someone who isn't actively considering ending their life can't thrive like that.
Finally, consider this: let's say the person using this app is indeed suicidal because they feel like they've been rejected by society- dating apps are infamous for short-lived relationships, rejection, and predatory subscription models (search hn and you will find any number of threads discussing this last one). Even if this is a truly altruistic service without a predatory subscription model, what do you think someone who is in the depths of despair will do if they're rejected by a community that markets itself as a haven for the rejected? If they weren't at the very edge of suicide before, how much closer did they just get pushed?
In short, be aware that there's a fair bit more going on than "maybe they feel lonely." I suspect this approach would do more harm than good.
An app that provides ready access to extremely vulnerable people is likely to have an incredibly huge abuse potential.
It's a shame you got so heavily downvoted because your core message - that loneliness is a miserable existence for many people - is one that is understood by people working in suicide prevention.
They might not be great at addressing it yet, but they do know it's a problem.
They might not be great at addressing it yet, but they do know it's a problem.
Would you date someone who's suicidal?
depends on exactly what we mean by "suicidal". around 4% of the US population contemplates suicide in a given year, though that number is double or more for younger people. only a minority of those who contemplate it make an actual plan, and again, only a minority of that subset actually follow through with an attempt.
if someone told me they had a serious plan to kill themselves on a first date, I would be more likely to try to get them help than to plan a second date. if they told me they periodically have suicidal thoughts, I would consider that a bit of an overshare, but not necessarily a dealbreaker. there are worse problems a partner could have.
if someone told me they had a serious plan to kill themselves on a first date, I would be more likely to try to get them help than to plan a second date. if they told me they periodically have suicidal thoughts, I would consider that a bit of an overshare, but not necessarily a dealbreaker. there are worse problems a partner could have.
Sure why not! I think there are many men in America that find Japanese and South Korean women very attractive, and would connect with them.
About 4% of the US population has suicidal thoughts (source CDC)
Its not leprosy, these are just thoughts. That will go away for most people. Or might come and go, same way as you might get sick at some points in your life.
About 4% of the US population has suicidal thoughts (source CDC)
Its not leprosy, these are just thoughts. That will go away for most people. Or might come and go, same way as you might get sick at some points in your life.
"Its not leprosy, these are just thoughts."
If the people having these thoughts are really suicidal, then there really is a serious risk of them committing suicide, which makes what they're thinking not "just thoughts".
Also, while it may not be leprosy, one's thoughts and world view can seriously affect your partner. Partners committing suicide together does happen, and even when only one of them does it can be devastating for the other, and even if they don't being in a relationship with a suicidal partner can be heartbreaking.
I would seriously think twice, and three times even, before dating someone who was suicidal. IMO, suicidal people need to seriously get their lives together and overcome their issues with therapy before dating, or they risk ruining not only their own lives and that of their own family, but that of their partner and their family as well.
If the people having these thoughts are really suicidal, then there really is a serious risk of them committing suicide, which makes what they're thinking not "just thoughts".
Also, while it may not be leprosy, one's thoughts and world view can seriously affect your partner. Partners committing suicide together does happen, and even when only one of them does it can be devastating for the other, and even if they don't being in a relationship with a suicidal partner can be heartbreaking.
I would seriously think twice, and three times even, before dating someone who was suicidal. IMO, suicidal people need to seriously get their lives together and overcome their issues with therapy before dating, or they risk ruining not only their own lives and that of their own family, but that of their partner and their family as well.
Yea connecting men in America that finds Japanese and South Korean women very attractive with vulnerable suicidal Japanese and South Korean women won't be a recipe for abuse at all...
As someone suicidal myself, for sure. Otherwise you're a part of the problem.
Or maybe try to seek better mental health resources through some means whatsoever, instead of relying on an app to find someone as mentally vulnerable as you.
Two suicidal people dating each other? I'm struggling to imagine how this could be a good idea.
Honestly, I don't see relationships as any kind of solution to suicidal ideation. Even when only one of the partners is not suicidal, the relationship has a good chance of ending very badly for both of them.
People who are suicidal need a therapist, not a date.
Honestly, I don't see relationships as any kind of solution to suicidal ideation. Even when only one of the partners is not suicidal, the relationship has a good chance of ending very badly for both of them.
People who are suicidal need a therapist, not a date.
Yeah just keep throwing apps at every problem, that'll fix things eventually.
lmao
lmao
“Japan never imposed the sweeping lockdowns seen in many other parts of the world, largely relying on mask-wearing, hand-washing and avoidance of indoor crowding to keep the virus relatively under control.“
It’s really hard to describe how hard the Japanese Government has bungled the coronavirus response. It’s actually quite perplexing.
They really know how to keep the population guessing, it’s hard to get tested, the numbers all are dodgy and conveniently changing. There’s a three day lag in the data. It’s seriously mind blowing my bad.
Peope don’t feel comfortable because no one knows what’s really going on in Tokyo and to add to all the confusion, there’s a domestic travel campaign ongoing nation wide which encourages travel...insane.
It’s really hard to describe how hard the Japanese Government has bungled the coronavirus response. It’s actually quite perplexing.
They really know how to keep the population guessing, it’s hard to get tested, the numbers all are dodgy and conveniently changing. There’s a three day lag in the data. It’s seriously mind blowing my bad.
Peope don’t feel comfortable because no one knows what’s really going on in Tokyo and to add to all the confusion, there’s a domestic travel campaign ongoing nation wide which encourages travel...insane.
> It’s really hard to describe how hard the Japanese Government has bungled the coronavirus response.
If that truly were the case, it would show up clearly in excess mortality. Yet AFAIK it does not, which would be evidence for japan as a whole not having bundled its covid response, at least nowhere near as much as europe or the US.
If that truly were the case, it would show up clearly in excess mortality. Yet AFAIK it does not, which would be evidence for japan as a whole not having bundled its covid response, at least nowhere near as much as europe or the US.
Well, Japan's response was of course not perfect, but their results are really not much worse than South Korea's, widely regarded as the best-handled on the planet. They have, for example, much better results than any nation in Europe.
Now, this may not be due to Japan's government; more plausibly, there is a higher level of pre-existing resistance to the virus, since all the nations of east Asia (including Australia and New Zealand) are doing better than all the nations of western Europe. But it doesn't point towards an especially bungled response.
Now, this may not be due to Japan's government; more plausibly, there is a higher level of pre-existing resistance to the virus, since all the nations of east Asia (including Australia and New Zealand) are doing better than all the nations of western Europe. But it doesn't point towards an especially bungled response.
Well look at the rate of suicides though, the low death number have come at a high cost.
The pandemic response isn't just about case numbers, there is almost zero social welfare here, the economic is getting crunched, zero help for people with mental illness, elderly people are locked inside homes and can't go out, businesses are closing down constantly.
There is also a major shame culture here around being infected, if you're infected, you can be bullied to the point where people have had to move homes. People choose not to get tested for this reason. I don't think if people do die here, they actually are tested unless the family requests it, most don't because of the shame of it.
The only difference between Japan and most other countries is that people voluntarily wear masks here for some inexplicable reason, thank god, because without that, it would be ultra ugly.
The pandemic response isn't just about case numbers, there is almost zero social welfare here, the economic is getting crunched, zero help for people with mental illness, elderly people are locked inside homes and can't go out, businesses are closing down constantly.
There is also a major shame culture here around being infected, if you're infected, you can be bullied to the point where people have had to move homes. People choose not to get tested for this reason. I don't think if people do die here, they actually are tested unless the family requests it, most don't because of the shame of it.
The only difference between Japan and most other countries is that people voluntarily wear masks here for some inexplicable reason, thank god, because without that, it would be ultra ugly.
Suicide rate hasn't meaningfully risen in Japan. If anything, they had a slight fall during the early days of the pandemic.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352.full?ijkey=NDYZgh6...
> Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic.
https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352.full?ijkey=NDYZgh6...
> Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic.
[deleted]
Not to justify the low bar most of the West has tossed into the ocean, but Japan’s case rate has been orders of magnitude better than in the US or Europe. I would hardly call that bungled.
Japan's deaths per 1M is 17, whereas the US is at 836. Doesn't seem that bad to me.
> the numbers all are dodgy
> There’s a three day lag in the data
Do you truly need deaths as they happen by the minute?
> There’s a three day lag in the data
Do you truly need deaths as they happen by the minute?
The three day lag can be a buffer to have some time to think and decide what to actually report to the public.
Sure, and it can also be because the death certificates and medical records need to be compiled and aggregated, and many parts of that process can be subject to manual inspection.
Many people have cautioned against using mortality figures in the US as a measure of Covid spread, because these figures have a lag measured in weeks before they're considered accurate. Imagine the doctoring being done on those numbers!
Many people have cautioned against using mortality figures in the US as a measure of Covid spread, because these figures have a lag measured in weeks before they're considered accurate. Imagine the doctoring being done on those numbers!
Sounds like they're doing all the things that have a hope of working without voluntarily dismantling their economy.
We should envy them, not drag them down to our level.
We should envy them, not drag them down to our level.
>largely relying on mask-wearing, hand-washing and avoidance of indoor crowding to keep the virus relatively under control.
A correct response based on evidence.
A correct response based on evidence.
Seems strange to single out one gender here. I'm not even sure that you can conclude that this is impacting women harder than it is men, as the article does, given that the number is so much higher for men in the first place.