Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings(cnbc.com)
cnbc.com
Elon Musk Suggests Tesla May Have Dumped Bitcoin Holdings
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/16/elon-musk-suggests-tesla-is-dumping-bitcoin.html
38 comments
I believe Bitcoin is a scam and Musk is mostly just a rich memer with high aspirations, but this seems like a bit of a stretch based on a single word in a single tweet.
How is it a scam?
I believe cars can fly, and bill gates is actually the president
I believe cars can fly, and bill gates is actually the president
If a single word tweet can lose people thousands of dollars that sounds like a scam to me.
Then all stocks are a scam because every CEO can tank their stock with a tweet
I don't disagree.
Some people believe the earth is flat, too.
What an utter pillock has this guy become. Guess Tesla stock is going to get hammered again tomorrow, as Musk = Tesla in the view of the consumer
Had to lookup pillock - it's a real word!
Why do you think he's a pillock?
Don't you think he's got some merit considering he's climbed the ladder with successful exit after successful exit and now is #1/#2 richest person on Earth? Do you think his decision making is all fluke?
Why do you think he's a pillock?
Don't you think he's got some merit considering he's climbed the ladder with successful exit after successful exit and now is #1/#2 richest person on Earth? Do you think his decision making is all fluke?
Believe it or not, you can be financially successful and still be a bad person. Bernie Madoff wasn't the most moral person.
So you changed the argument to bad vs. not bad person. Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs? How do you account or calculate that vs. whatever other behaviours he may engage in?
Funny you bring up Ponzi schemes too, considering that's what Bitcoin is - just global and decentralized - with a few other bells and whistles misattributed to Bitcoin from blockchain; so are all all earlier adopters who then peddle/hype Bitcoin without understanding it also then bad people, or only if they understand it has a MLM-Ponzi structure and they're happy to milk schmucks/layperson that the SEC is meant to protect?
Funny you bring up Ponzi schemes too, considering that's what Bitcoin is - just global and decentralized - with a few other bells and whistles misattributed to Bitcoin from blockchain; so are all all earlier adopters who then peddle/hype Bitcoin without understanding it also then bad people, or only if they understand it has a MLM-Ponzi structure and they're happy to milk schmucks/layperson that the SEC is meant to protect?
My understanding of the word pillock is that it is a synonym for the word jackass. So I am referring to the fact that just because he is financially successful, does not mean he cannot be a jackass and voluntarily do bad things, which is what you insinuated.
He trolls, but if his actions are bad or say perhaps educating/helping protect and sway society away from buying Bitcoin - so they're not left holding the bag - will depend on if you're biased/financial incentivized for one outcome over another; and if your critical thinking has been influenced by that, or lack thereof which seems to be the majority of the mob who's bought into the Bitcoin hype.
> Don't you think there's a net benefit to Elon with Tesla getting literally all vehicle manufacturers to now seriously be on the path to mass producing EVs?
I don’t think he’s the reason. I think the reason is the regulatory pressure on reducing carbon emissions and subventions for anything electric.
The more the traditional manufacturers invest in EV’s, the worse for Tesla and Musk. Look at all the models from Mercedes, they’re all better than Tesla. The new Audi GT? Taycan? Any time over Tesla. Not just the car but the service network, spares, supply chain, build quality. I think Musk is going to play himself with Tesla but time will tell.
And let’s see in 10 years if EV’s are a net benefit to anything. Generally all this electro-crap. Let’s see how the green leaning part of the society reacts to fibreglass windmills landing in the landfill on the 20 year cycle.
I don’t think he’s the reason. I think the reason is the regulatory pressure on reducing carbon emissions and subventions for anything electric.
The more the traditional manufacturers invest in EV’s, the worse for Tesla and Musk. Look at all the models from Mercedes, they’re all better than Tesla. The new Audi GT? Taycan? Any time over Tesla. Not just the car but the service network, spares, supply chain, build quality. I think Musk is going to play himself with Tesla but time will tell.
And let’s see in 10 years if EV’s are a net benefit to anything. Generally all this electro-crap. Let’s see how the green leaning part of the society reacts to fibreglass windmills landing in the landfill on the 20 year cycle.
Was bitcoin not the first blockchain? Seems like you have your facts backwards.
If anything, the majority of post-bitcoin blockchains have in one way or another omitted key blockchain properties and therefore defeated the point of a blockchain, usually in the form of federated networks (private gate-kept chains), or, as you say, built with feature sets in order benefit ponzi scheme structures.
Lots of bitcoin hate lately, from environmental concerns (give me a break) now to "ponzi scheme". (Is it because there is a finite supply? Does that make buying gold a ponzi scheme too?)
Oh well, there's always been detractors.
If anything, the majority of post-bitcoin blockchains have in one way or another omitted key blockchain properties and therefore defeated the point of a blockchain, usually in the form of federated networks (private gate-kept chains), or, as you say, built with feature sets in order benefit ponzi scheme structures.
Lots of bitcoin hate lately, from environmental concerns (give me a break) now to "ponzi scheme". (Is it because there is a finite supply? Does that make buying gold a ponzi scheme too?)
Oh well, there's always been detractors.
MLM-Ponzi scheme was probably the very first criticism, but Bitcoin propaganda narrative m never engages with it; do yourself a favour and understand MLM and Ponzi structures, and then see if any of them match Bitcoin patterns.
Buying gold is not the same as buying Bitcoin, if you actually different fully.
Buying gold is not the same as buying Bitcoin, if you actually different fully.
> do yourself a favour
I couldn't care less if you bought or sold bitcoin.
See? Already very different from a ponzi scheme.
I couldn't care less if you bought or sold bitcoin.
See? Already very different from a ponzi scheme.
He's always been a bit of a dick. I'm currently doing a deep dive into his business history and the conclusion I'm coming to is that he is first and foremost a scrappy marketer, not a genius engineer as his reality distortion field would have you believe.
If Tesla is pumping and dumping useless (environmentally destructive and wasteful of advanced manufactured goods via PoW) made up money tokens, in order to finance a future for humanity in space and on Earth with clean energy and transportation, that seems totally acceptable to me.
It’s astonishing how a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value of an entire monetary ecosystem via a series of Tweets.
What’s the advantage of Bitcoin being - allegedly - so independent from governments and other centralized powers then?
In the "crypto" world nobody really knows what affects the value (correlation does not imply causation). If someone claims to know, let's just check his predictions' accuracy.
For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world.
Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficult under some governments/centralized powers.
Many celebrities publish various claims about "cryptos", and even a major disagreement isn't innocuous. Major disagreement between central powers about important matters, for example money, may lead to war.
For a centralized power confiscation and devaluation are more difficult to apply in the "crypto" world.
Value stems from opinions, and in the "crypto" world everyone is free to form his own opinion and act accordingly. Doing so is more difficult under some governments/centralized powers.
Many celebrities publish various claims about "cryptos", and even a major disagreement isn't innocuous. Major disagreement between central powers about important matters, for example money, may lead to war.
>correlation does not imply causation
It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance.
But back to the topic ...
Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?
It does not exclude it either. That is such a vacuous statement and I'm tired of it being used every simgle time someone has a chance to drop the most cliche "smart guy" phrase in modern parlance.
But back to the topic ...
Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions, i.e. it was just a coincidence?
> It does not exclude it either
Indeed. I wrote "nobody really knows what affects the value". You wrote "a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value", and my answer was just a reminder: nobody knows for sure.
> Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions
I never wrote this. Speaking about vacuous things: I'm tired of the straw man trick
In my opinion Musk Tweets probably had an effect, but I doubt anyone can show to which extent, especially indirectly (people acting upon their thought about the reaction of other people to Musk's Tweets...).
Indeed. I wrote "nobody really knows what affects the value". You wrote "a single individual can affect (manipulate) the value", and my answer was just a reminder: nobody knows for sure.
> Do you seriously believe that the recent up/downs of BTC have nothing to with Elon and Tesla's actions
I never wrote this. Speaking about vacuous things: I'm tired of the straw man trick
In my opinion Musk Tweets probably had an effect, but I doubt anyone can show to which extent, especially indirectly (people acting upon their thought about the reaction of other people to Musk's Tweets...).
Yeah, the more news like this that comes out, the more I realize it's not much more than a popularity contest.
You could easily say this about the stock market. Imagine if Buffett came out and said in advance he was going to sell all his Coke stock.
I actually agree with this analogy. However, Bitcoin is not stock - unless now, after first calling a currency, then a store of value, we magically transition to calling Bitcoin a stock-like asset.
Except that he wouldn't because he knows that would manipulate the market and he's more responsible than that.
Its not just that he's more responsible, its illegal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_manipulation
But people would continue to buy Coke. And Coke would continue to make a profit and Buffet would look stupid when the company did well, even if he was able to cause a 10% dip in the stock. It is unlikely that the world would stop drinking code because Buffet said he didn't like the stock.
Bitcoin on the other hand, has no profits and only can be successful by having everyone agree it is better to own than gold. So if Musk's opinion is followed by many other people it will bring bitcoin down for a long time.
Bitcoin on the other hand, has no profits and only can be successful by having everyone agree it is better to own than gold. So if Musk's opinion is followed by many other people it will bring bitcoin down for a long time.
Once again, they are not interested in hodling in the first place as I have said weeks ago. [0] They are interested in making money and Elon and Tesla know that they are able to move the crypto markets.
If they have already sold it, well that is the 'dump' + negative coverage / spin on BTC to pressurise the price to fall further. Now the poor HODLers at >$60K will have to wait a while until the next run up to the all time high.
One more thing in this crypto-currency episode, 'What goes up, musk go down.'
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093
If they have already sold it, well that is the 'dump' + negative coverage / spin on BTC to pressurise the price to fall further. Now the poor HODLers at >$60K will have to wait a while until the next run up to the all time high.
One more thing in this crypto-currency episode, 'What goes up, musk go down.'
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27086093
I mean, shouldn't it be taken as a lesson that if the kids want to play with fire, an unregulated market (include MLM-Ponzi scheme structure by all accounts), then that's one type of pitfall that exists?
Elon's also publicly said, tweeted not too long ago: "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so just because the markets didn't know or report on that to help provide a balanced, critical breakdown to promote balanced news - that's all Elon's fault? The mob of irrational buyers have no responsibility to know what they're "investing" in or to research and understand statements or behaviours about what they're "investing" in?
Elon's also publicly said, tweeted not too long ago: "Bitcoin is almost as much bs as fiat money" - so just because the markets didn't know or report on that to help provide a balanced, critical breakdown to promote balanced news - that's all Elon's fault? The mob of irrational buyers have no responsibility to know what they're "investing" in or to research and understand statements or behaviours about what they're "investing" in?
Did Elon issue a warning to the public? Did he tell them not to buy? Did he post a tweet agreeing with Munger and telling people to stay away?
He fed the fire because it helped raise his public persona. I think he does have responsibility.
He fed the fire because it helped raise his public persona. I think he does have responsibility.
Sure if you want to play that game - it was great of him to make it news to highlight how bad/energy intensive (for what end?) Bitcoin is. So thanks Elon.
There's a cult of personality around him.
I guess insider trading doesn't apply to Bitcoin?
Who would be an insider?
In general, many regulations do not apply. The Bitcoin party line is that they like it that way.
In general, many regulations do not apply. The Bitcoin party line is that they like it that way.
https://pomp.substack.com/p/what-happened-to-bitcoin-when-el...
> Let us first cover the elephant in the room: the Elon dump. Firstly, there were 19,259 BTC moved onto exchanges before Elon’s tweet and ensuing price dump. I do not think this is coincidence and was likely someone with insider information.
Regulations may not apply but it would be interesting if Musk told one of his rich friends before posting the tweet. That could look bad for him if something like that was discovered.
> Let us first cover the elephant in the room: the Elon dump. Firstly, there were 19,259 BTC moved onto exchanges before Elon’s tweet and ensuing price dump. I do not think this is coincidence and was likely someone with insider information.
Regulations may not apply but it would be interesting if Musk told one of his rich friends before posting the tweet. That could look bad for him if something like that was discovered.
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