Roblox on Linux with recent Wine 6.11(roblox.fandom.com)
roblox.fandom.com
Roblox on Linux with recent Wine 6.11
https://roblox.fandom.com/wiki/Roblox_on_Linux
123 comments
I've never actually played Roblox, but the sense I get from it is really similar to the early Newgrounds flash-games scene. Seems like there's lots of creativity, a community of people always working on new things, and tools that are simple enough to serve as an on-ramp for people with very little experience.
Much like today's upcoming generation of animators have their roots in Newgrounds, perhaps sometime a decade from now we'll see a new generation of game developers who got their start in Roblox mods.
Much like today's upcoming generation of animators have their roots in Newgrounds, perhaps sometime a decade from now we'll see a new generation of game developers who got their start in Roblox mods.
Yeah I think that's a good comparison.
It's a neat ecosystem where it's sort of insulated from traditional gaming economics and folks are just trying all sorts of things.
It's a neat ecosystem where it's sort of insulated from traditional gaming economics and folks are just trying all sorts of things.
[deleted]
There are a few of these sandbox style games around. Garys Mod, Tabletop sim, VR Chat, and Pavlov VR are all games that are platforms for mods to transform in to brand new games.
Even minecraft has these kinds of data packs now to support a variety of game modes.
What's interesting is that roblox puts it front-and-center, it feels like the primary usecase, and I'd bet that nodding it feels more approachable compared to others
What's interesting is that roblox puts it front-and-center, it feels like the primary usecase, and I'd bet that nodding it feels more approachable compared to others
All of the games I listed are similar, Pavlov VR is my favorite and it comes with basically no game by default and everything is custom game modes implemented as maps from the steam workshop. I have no idea which one is easier from a creators perspective but from a player point, I absolutely love checking out the new maps and seeing a totally different way to play a FPS.
When you say its a great deal I'm not sure what you mean. Its free to play, then attempts to suck money out of your kids for virtual currency.
We have a hard rule in the house of no money spent on virtual items. My kids still love Roblox so there must be lots of fun to be had without spending money.
We have a hard rule in the house of no money spent on virtual items. My kids still love Roblox so there must be lots of fun to be had without spending money.
"My son plays Roblox a great deal."
Not "a great deal" as far as purchases go. As far as how much he plays.
Alternate sentence:
My son plays Roblox frequently.
Not "a great deal" as far as purchases go. As far as how much he plays.
Alternate sentence:
My son plays Roblox frequently.
Yes sorry. I misread the comment.
"Wine 6.11 or a more recent version. As of June 19, 2021, this requires using a development release."
That's an annoying problem with Wine. I submitted a bug report on the released version, and it was rejected because it wasn't on the latest development version. It's hard to install Wine in a local directory, so installing a version that didn't come with the Linux distro is iffy. (Someone is going to tell me it's really easy, just type all these command line commands. That's not what the instructions [1] say.)
[1] https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_Installation_and_Configuration
That's an annoying problem with Wine. I submitted a bug report on the released version, and it was rejected because it wasn't on the latest development version. It's hard to install Wine in a local directory, so installing a version that didn't come with the Linux distro is iffy. (Someone is going to tell me it's really easy, just type all these command line commands. That's not what the instructions [1] say.)
[1] https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_Installation_and_Configuration
Try Play On Linux, or similar tools. It has the ability to download wine versions, it has 6.11 and 6.11 staging but not the GE or other special patched ones.
Install Play On Linux. It allows you to have as many different wine configs as you want, each with their own independent set of virtual drives for dependencies, etc...
To be completely fair, it really isn't that bad, at least not compared to other software. In my experience the only notably annoying part is getting all of the dependencies that you want. After that, it's basically an affair of ./configure && make.
If you are using Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, you can probably use WineHQ's repo with the winehq-devel package. You can also find the dev dependencies listed on the Fedora page. On Arch, AUR has the wine-git package that should work. On NixOS or other distros/OSes where you have the Nix package manager installed, you can get an environment with all of the dependencies setup for you, although in that case, I will at least note that you don't get a multiarch build.
The situation could be better, but given the heroic amount of ridiculous stuff going on in Wine, it's not too bad either. (Not sure how many pure C programs I've seen exposing MSVC C++ ABI interfaces, but Wine is one.)
If you are using Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora, you can probably use WineHQ's repo with the winehq-devel package. You can also find the dev dependencies listed on the Fedora page. On Arch, AUR has the wine-git package that should work. On NixOS or other distros/OSes where you have the Nix package manager installed, you can get an environment with all of the dependencies setup for you, although in that case, I will at least note that you don't get a multiarch build.
The situation could be better, but given the heroic amount of ridiculous stuff going on in Wine, it's not too bad either. (Not sure how many pure C programs I've seen exposing MSVC C++ ABI interfaces, but Wine is one.)
>getting all of the dependencies that you want.
I know it's an absolute meme but this is why I like gentoo. You already have the build dependancies for all your software so building it is literally clone,configure,make.
I know it's an absolute meme but this is why I like gentoo. You already have the build dependancies for all your software so building it is literally clone,configure,make.
I believe this is the same for Arch and its derivatives.
Not really. You can run makepkg --syncdeps on the ABS PKGBUILD to download all build dependencies for a package, but it won't happen for a normal pacman --sync.
This is ultimately pretty similar to other distros. On Debian derivatives you'd run apt-get build-dep to install all dependencies, and on Nix(OS) you'd run nix-shell --attr to get a shell with the build dependencies available.
This is ultimately pretty similar to other distros. On Debian derivatives you'd run apt-get build-dep to install all dependencies, and on Nix(OS) you'd run nix-shell --attr to get a shell with the build dependencies available.
It is true that you don’t get every build dep by default, but development headers/libs aren’t separated on Arch like they are on many distros. So I do take slight issue that Arch is on the same level with build deps as Debian, for example. You won’t get the compilers by default, true. But you also don’t need to go through every library and get their headers if you already have the runtimes. That’s a huge difference to me.
As I wrote above, "(Someone is going to tell me it's really easy, just type all these command line commands. That's not what the instructions say.)"
While I know the response you wanted was not one that contradicted this point, it’s hard to not contradict it, because:
- there are precompiled devel releases for some distros, and pkgbuilds/ebuilds for Arch/Gentoo. These options would probably be better for most people. The pages on getting wine definitely do show you how to get the devel version for Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora.
- The actual compilation really is “grab deps, run configure, run make.” If you didn’t generally compile a lot of software manually I could empathize with the subtleties but it is hard for me to say it’s worse than most other software. The page you linked to wasn’t for building it; if you search “building wine” you’ll get the more apt page, https://wiki.winehq.org/Building_Wine which Is large, but it really still boils down to “grab the deps, run configure, run make”
It is unfortunate that it is not somehow even easier, but I also don’t have any suggestions for how it could be improved significantly. Between prebuilt packages and a relatively simple build system, it’s about as easy as any large software is.
Maybe the Wiki could be improved to make it less confusing. But it’s also easy to see why it covers so many of the different things you might want to do. I suspect there’s no silver bullet.
- there are precompiled devel releases for some distros, and pkgbuilds/ebuilds for Arch/Gentoo. These options would probably be better for most people. The pages on getting wine definitely do show you how to get the devel version for Ubuntu, Debian and Fedora.
- The actual compilation really is “grab deps, run configure, run make.” If you didn’t generally compile a lot of software manually I could empathize with the subtleties but it is hard for me to say it’s worse than most other software. The page you linked to wasn’t for building it; if you search “building wine” you’ll get the more apt page, https://wiki.winehq.org/Building_Wine which Is large, but it really still boils down to “grab the deps, run configure, run make”
It is unfortunate that it is not somehow even easier, but I also don’t have any suggestions for how it could be improved significantly. Between prebuilt packages and a relatively simple build system, it’s about as easy as any large software is.
Maybe the Wiki could be improved to make it less confusing. But it’s also easy to see why it covers so many of the different things you might want to do. I suspect there’s no silver bullet.
On debian derivatives, you can use `apt-get build-dep` to install all the compile-time dependencies of a package.
Which project keeps open bugs which have been fixed already? It's not the wine devs jobs to get it in to your distro package manager.
Hey what's a good way to engage with Roblox? My 6-7yo kids love it but I don't see them doing anything creative as they do with e.g. Minecraft. maybe they are just playing it wrong?
Use Roblox studio, it's basically a game engine to develop games for Roblox, uses Lua and has a marketplace full of things like 3D models, it's best to start with a simple platformer, Roblox has tutorials on their site.
Before that if it's too much, they could make things like shirts to wear in game and sell those to other players, easiest is to use a template and something akin to photoshop.
Roblox is closer to a game marketplace where the games are made by fans than a game unto itself, so the creativity isn't game inherent unless it's subgame was built to be like that (most aren't).
Before that if it's too much, they could make things like shirts to wear in game and sell those to other players, easiest is to use a template and something akin to photoshop.
Roblox is closer to a game marketplace where the games are made by fans than a game unto itself, so the creativity isn't game inherent unless it's subgame was built to be like that (most aren't).
Don't forget the biggest selling point..you could become some kid's unsung hero by making a game that he plays all the time.
If they're enjoying it, and do so regularly, are they really playing it wrong?
What’s the typical age at which we expect people to decide if they’re doing something for fun - or if they’re doing something to create? Does it matter if it’s inside the sandbox (e.g. SimCity) or outside the sandbox (e.g. Dreamweaver)? What if the sandbox is also a tool for exploitation of the user (i.e. microtransactions?)
To share my own example - beyond SimCity and not-really-understanding-how-to-make-Age-of-Empires-maps when I was 10 years old - I don’t think I can say I was really using computers constructively until I was 12/13 when I was at the point where I actually understood what I was doing with my cracked copies of Macromedia and Adobe software - so if I’m using myself as a benchmark I wouldn’t stress too much about grade-school kids being newbs…
…just please don’t repress them. And introduce them to the concept of creating their own things outside of closed platforms.
To share my own example - beyond SimCity and not-really-understanding-how-to-make-Age-of-Empires-maps when I was 10 years old - I don’t think I can say I was really using computers constructively until I was 12/13 when I was at the point where I actually understood what I was doing with my cracked copies of Macromedia and Adobe software - so if I’m using myself as a benchmark I wouldn’t stress too much about grade-school kids being newbs…
…just please don’t repress them. And introduce them to the concept of creating their own things outside of closed platforms.
How do you distinguish between creating and honing a skill? Some of the best engineers I know were top-level video game players in their youth. Video games taught them how to get really good at something.
Very similar parallels myself. From living on Simtropolis, go struggling to make custom maps for Halo CE on PC, on to making texture modifications with cracked Photoshop 7.0.
Then around 12 I became way more social online, started making custom skins for InvisionFree message boards and spending more and more time in the CSS Zen Garden... and the rest is history!
Then around 12 I became way more social online, started making custom skins for InvisionFree message boards and spending more and more time in the CSS Zen Garden... and the rest is history!
Like playing with LEGO: building following instructions vs building your own thing. Is it wrong following instructions?
Maybe get them to play more creative games like Build a Boat. The platform is great but like any platform there are games which either do or don’t engage creativity.
Another thing you could try is get an account and play along with them. A lot of games allow for private servers / areas where you can play.
Get them to add real friends from their school and hookup on a web conferencing app. That really helps with team building and communication.
Another thing you could try is get an account and play along with them. A lot of games allow for private servers / areas where you can play.
Get them to add real friends from their school and hookup on a web conferencing app. That really helps with team building and communication.
Roblox is just games platform. It is not creative unless you download roblox studio.
6-7 years old could use it to create obby game with adult guidance.
6-7 years old could use it to create obby game with adult guidance.
Roblox games can be incredibly creative, many are sims and builders, i.e. games within games. But yeah, Roblox Studio is where the real stuff gets made
And many are not and most are fake creative (making pretention of being creative but not being such if you look close and play).
As a whole, they are no more creative then any other games. And they are rarely if ever as detailed as something like Minecraft.
As a whole, they are no more creative then any other games. And they are rarely if ever as detailed as something like Minecraft.
I was unpleasantly surprised there still is no Linux-native version.
Consider that their primary audience is close to 40 million mostly kid players. Young kids generally don't care about OS options and use whatever PC their parents buy, which will mostly be Windows. Further, even Windows PC players are in the minority, with close to 75% of users playing on mobile devices.
Linux would always be a minority option. In the case of Roblox, it would be the minority option of a minority platform. Not really the type of thing the company is going to throw money at while they're supporting 4 other platofrms: Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android. All of them more accessible to their audience.
Disappointment in their choice not to develop for Linux is natural, but it's a fairly reasonable choice on their part to avoid increasing their platform & build maintenance requirements by 25% for an exceptionally small number of users that would refuse to use a different OS.
Linux would always be a minority option. In the case of Roblox, it would be the minority option of a minority platform. Not really the type of thing the company is going to throw money at while they're supporting 4 other platofrms: Windows, MacOS, iOS, Android. All of them more accessible to their audience.
Disappointment in their choice not to develop for Linux is natural, but it's a fairly reasonable choice on their part to avoid increasing their platform & build maintenance requirements by 25% for an exceptionally small number of users that would refuse to use a different OS.
I expected it to be available on RaspberryPI.
Windows is available on Raspberry PI.
"Linux-native" is an outdated mindset. With tools like WINE and Proton+DXVK/D3DVK / SteamPlay, software developed on Windows is in all practicality platform agnostic.
After more than a decade, we know the cost of supporting Linux native builds seems to be the sanity and good will of the devs. For indie and small teams, it's literally taking food out of their mouths asking them to use resources fixing obscure bugs from a vocal minority that they could instead put towards developing new content or planning their next projects.
I get the sentiment, but really, we won the lock-in war. It's kinder to ask devs to stick to what they know and are comfortable with, and if they want to build with SteamPlay in mind, then we all win.
After more than a decade, we know the cost of supporting Linux native builds seems to be the sanity and good will of the devs. For indie and small teams, it's literally taking food out of their mouths asking them to use resources fixing obscure bugs from a vocal minority that they could instead put towards developing new content or planning their next projects.
I get the sentiment, but really, we won the lock-in war. It's kinder to ask devs to stick to what they know and are comfortable with, and if they want to build with SteamPlay in mind, then we all win.
> we won the lock-in war
I think you meant lost? But then we sidestepped it, albeit in a buggy and incomplete fashion.
I think you meant lost? But then we sidestepped it, albeit in a buggy and incomplete fashion.
I used to care about this but then I just started enjoying my games. Almost every single player game I play in proton works so flawless you would have no idea proton is involved. While many of my linux native games fail to launch because they are dynamically linked to some old package which doesn't exist anymore.
> albeit in a buggy and incomplete fashion.
Really? I find that I can play most games just fine under Linux, except those that require annoying anti-cheat software (but then I wouldn't want to run that under windows either...).
Really? I find that I can play most games just fine under Linux, except those that require annoying anti-cheat software (but then I wouldn't want to run that under windows either...).
For my library, it's still largely a 50/50. But it has been getting better lately. Maybe it's 60/40. A big one is Space Engineers, which is supposed to work with such and so patch, but not for me.
While this is true, some devs in the indie community develop on linux[1] so support is there by default. It's also a small(hopefully growing) niche to target Linux as a platform. SteamOS is also a thing, albeit without a solid market afaik.
[1] https://blog.system76.com/post/654884924769370112/developing...
[1] https://blog.system76.com/post/654884924769370112/developing...
SteamOS isn't really a thing anymore. There's been no update in about 2 years. It's possible Valve is still putting some effort there, but hope for its future is pretty much just speculation at this point even if Valve hasn't abandoned it completely.
I feel like a good chunk of that is market politics: Valve has an interest in Linux support so they can (re-)build something like SteamOS. And they want that ability so that Microsoft doesn't get too stupid ideas of forcing restrictions on Windows gaming/tying it to the Windows Store/... But the obvious option of that is enough, they didn't need to fully push the SteamOS/SteamBox concept after it fizzled out, the fact that they could is cheaper and serves the purpose.
That is a very interesting view on things, and I would not be at all surprised if it's the truth. Valve need only devote minimal resources to keep it shelved while making sure it's updated just enough to be able to rapidly deploy, at the same time that ProtonDB ensures a good % of the library is immediately available.
Gamers are minority of PC users, but a little over 10% of PC's shipped are still gaming-level. Some of those are probably purchased for graphic designs and/or video editing, but the gaming segment would still be substantial enough that Windows wouldn't want to lose it. Not because of the immediate revenue loss: In the beginning you'd still probably have to pay a MS tax if you weren't building your own PC, or you wanted a laptop (and gaming laptops are a large part of the gaming market).
Once 10% of the market was installing Linux, that's a foot in the door MS really wouldn't like.
Gamers are minority of PC users, but a little over 10% of PC's shipped are still gaming-level. Some of those are probably purchased for graphic designs and/or video editing, but the gaming segment would still be substantial enough that Windows wouldn't want to lose it. Not because of the immediate revenue loss: In the beginning you'd still probably have to pay a MS tax if you weren't building your own PC, or you wanted a laptop (and gaming laptops are a large part of the gaming market).
Once 10% of the market was installing Linux, that's a foot in the door MS really wouldn't like.
As much as OS/2 did win.
More than half of their player base (like 60%) play on mobile, so I image it's just not a big priority to them.
I know what's Linux and what's Wine, and Roblox is some video game; but what's the interesting part in this page?
Roblox is more than just a game, it’s like a web browser that instead of showing pages anyone can make allows you to join 3D multiplayer hangouts/games anyone can make.
75% of kids aged 9-12 in the US join these hangouts, and I imagine not being able to participate would be a Linux adoption dealbreaker for many.
75% of kids aged 9-12 in the US join these hangouts, and I imagine not being able to participate would be a Linux adoption dealbreaker for many.
Yeah, calling it a "game" is underselling it. My nephew and niece were really into Roblox, so I thought I'd be the "cool uncle" and have a go at making something for them in Roblox Studio.
I dragged out my macbook (as there was no Linux support) and it was ridiculously easy to make a 3D multiplayer game that millions of people could play instantly (sure, only a handful of their friends played my creation, but still - if you made something good, the audience is there!). It was also a great introduction to my niece on using 3D software - she loved adding tonnes of random stuff and moving it around into weird structures.
I've tried to make multiplayer games in the past, and it's a nightmare. Having a giant player base already authenticated, with all the plumbing in place - it's just a really fun environment to develop for.
I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for making "more serious" games.
I dragged out my macbook (as there was no Linux support) and it was ridiculously easy to make a 3D multiplayer game that millions of people could play instantly (sure, only a handful of their friends played my creation, but still - if you made something good, the audience is there!). It was also a great introduction to my niece on using 3D software - she loved adding tonnes of random stuff and moving it around into weird structures.
I've tried to make multiplayer games in the past, and it's a nightmare. Having a giant player base already authenticated, with all the plumbing in place - it's just a really fun environment to develop for.
I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for making "more serious" games.
As someone not in the target age group, the game Phantom Forces in Roblox is one of the greatest FPS games to date. All of the weapons have very visible stats, no pseudo-stats displayed with bars (that sometimes aren't even accurate.) Newer FPS games are starting to get this right, however.
Phantom Forces even had a sponsored event with Disney.
Phantom Forces even had a sponsored event with Disney.
I tried Phantom Forces and got the impression that the main thing going for it was being available in Roblox and a clone of a great game. There are many fps clones in Roblox and PF may be the best of them but I don't think it is comparable in quality to games like CSGO and Valorant.
Last time I played and watched neighbor kids play it all just felt like a great idea implemented in a crappy way. Watching kids playing games with micro transaction scams and terrible experiences was disappointing, but the idea is probably the future. It would be intriguing to see a company like Mojang create a much higher quality system with a similar approach.
> I wish there was something similar (and as popular) for making "more serious" games.
I would be interested to know if Unity LEGO Microgame aims that kid creators market.
https://store.unity.com/lego-microgame
I would be interested to know if Unity LEGO Microgame aims that kid creators market.
https://store.unity.com/lego-microgame
> hangouts/games anyone can make
Certainly not young children, who to the 50th percentile will lack the computer, as opposed to phone, needed to author a Roblox game, and to the 99th percentile, the developmental skills needed to program in Roblox Studio.
Certainly not young children, who to the 50th percentile will lack the computer, as opposed to phone, needed to author a Roblox game, and to the 99th percentile, the developmental skills needed to program in Roblox Studio.
It's kind of like a massively distributed sandbox game environment.
Yup. My kids are on Windows machines primarily because of Roblox
I have 3 kids and all of them play Roblox. In the past I tried to run Roblox with wine but it didn't run.
Now, in the laptops of my kids, I can switch to Linux...
Now, in the laptops of my kids, I can switch to Linux...
So I have wine running on my linux machine in the house so my girls can play the sims… I noticed on the web browser the other day my kids had been searching how to install mods. Interestingly they had gotten pretty far but couldn’t figure it out all the way since all the guides online pointed how to do it in windows… it got me thinking maybe I’m depriving them by having the linux setup… little successes along the way build confidence… it’s made me consider having the games on windows… only reason I went wine in the first place is I could not for the life of me figure out how to get windows to install… unbuntu was a 20 minute process… windows failed with some kind of driver error related to sata controller issues … spent a few nights and decided to just run wine… gonna look back into it thought want them to have the little successes of independence… 12 years old
Hi, I can confirm that Sims3 and Sims4 mods work fine under Wine. My suggestion is to teach your children to always read instructions and install the mods one at a time and test. It is easy to install something incorrectly and crash your game.
Roblox is very popular among children, and having Linux support is a big deal. Consider it the equivalent of “Minecraft finally runs on Linux”.
This particular video game is crucial for gnu/linux to become popular and finally crush Microsoft.
I don't think Linux is anywhere close to crushing Windows as the de facto desktop gaming platform.
Closer than you might think. With Valves efforts now 88% [0] of the top hundred Steam games run on Linux and there is ongoing work to improve drivers, support and UX.
Steam now allows you to install any Windows game on linux in the same way you'd install any other game. That's a big improvement.
Anti-cheat is an issue, but otherwise it isn't a million miles away.
[0] https://www.protondb.com/
Steam now allows you to install any Windows game on linux in the same way you'd install any other game. That's a big improvement.
Anti-cheat is an issue, but otherwise it isn't a million miles away.
[0] https://www.protondb.com/
88 out of the 100 top Steam games are not representative of desktop gaming in general, even less "crushing" windows, where games run out of the box, and as intended ("platinum").
The value 88(%) is also misleading. It represents games running at least at bronze level (the lowest quality of a playable game). The percentage of perfectly running games (via Proton) is 15%.
I support Proton as a shortcut to release Linux-compatible games, but there's no comparison, in the big picture.
The value 88(%) is also misleading. It represents games running at least at bronze level (the lowest quality of a playable game). The percentage of perfectly running games (via Proton) is 15%.
I support Proton as a shortcut to release Linux-compatible games, but there's no comparison, in the big picture.
But running out of the box with no tweaks includes Gold, Platinum and Native which is far more than 50%.
I'm less about trying to imply that Linux is "crushing" Windows and more about it being seen as a viable option (i.e. " not a million miles away").
I think I'm against out of hand dismissal, which your post and the post I responded to are without qualification or balance.
I'm less about trying to imply that Linux is "crushing" Windows and more about it being seen as a viable option (i.e. " not a million miles away").
I think I'm against out of hand dismissal, which your post and the post I responded to are without qualification or balance.
To be clear, I don't dismiss Proton/Wine at all.
I didn't intend "shortcut" as derogative (bad word choice :)); rather, given the limited resources of game development, it may make Linux ports possible (as opposed to native ports, which take significantly more resources). John Carmack actually supports this approach.
My criticism is that while there is the impression/hope that at some point the "emulation" will be completed, based on my experience (with Wine and ReactOS), it never will - it's a virtually infinite amount of new hacks/tweaks/small additions.
My conclusion is it a type of work that will require continuous employment of (development resources), and will be more of a workaround, than a solution. (regarding the "crush", this was actually in reference to an ancestor post)
Including native ports in the discussion, or excluding them, is a tricky discussion, which I consider separate - my points were about Wine/Proton specifically.
I actually do play games, but even if my O/S is Linux (and essentially all the games are on Steam), I still run games in a VM.
I didn't intend "shortcut" as derogative (bad word choice :)); rather, given the limited resources of game development, it may make Linux ports possible (as opposed to native ports, which take significantly more resources). John Carmack actually supports this approach.
My criticism is that while there is the impression/hope that at some point the "emulation" will be completed, based on my experience (with Wine and ReactOS), it never will - it's a virtually infinite amount of new hacks/tweaks/small additions.
My conclusion is it a type of work that will require continuous employment of (development resources), and will be more of a workaround, than a solution. (regarding the "crush", this was actually in reference to an ancestor post)
Including native ports in the discussion, or excluding them, is a tricky discussion, which I consider separate - my points were about Wine/Proton specifically.
I actually do play games, but even if my O/S is Linux (and essentially all the games are on Steam), I still run games in a VM.
Thanks for the clarification, that makes a lot of sense.
I think the above poster was more talking in terms of market share. I only use free software, so I don't really have an incentive to shill against Linux here, but it's worth noting that among the premiere desktop gaming platform, more people use PC VR than Linux. Linux isn't winning here, despite its better...everything, because Windows has two major advantages: It's already installed, and games are marketed to kids who more often than not probably don't have a choice in operating system!
Markets don't optimize for efficiency in computing.
Markets don't optimize for efficiency in computing.
That's true, I don't think it will be exploding without either of the blockers you mention being overcome.
I do think the above poster hasn't made it clear the experience they're speaking to. A lot of "anti" sentiment I see is based on things that aren't really true anymore. If all were informed and were giving their considered opinion that despite recent advances they still don't foresee a large gain in marketshare then that's fair enough. I think my main issue is with uniformed generalisations being stated as if fact backed up by recent and relevant experience.
Having said that I do agree with your post, so please note that my criticisms don't apply to you!
I do think the above poster hasn't made it clear the experience they're speaking to. A lot of "anti" sentiment I see is based on things that aren't really true anymore. If all were informed and were giving their considered opinion that despite recent advances they still don't foresee a large gain in marketshare then that's fair enough. I think my main issue is with uniformed generalisations being stated as if fact backed up by recent and relevant experience.
Having said that I do agree with your post, so please note that my criticisms don't apply to you!
Also, Linux isn't better everything, it is a pita.
It's not as good as the evangelists make out, it's not as hopeless as the detractors make out.
The "news" is that in the last 5 years it has gone from "absolutely not viable for gaming" to "good enough for a lot of people".
The "news" is that in the last 5 years it has gone from "absolutely not viable for gaming" to "good enough for a lot of people".
Hardly, when the solution is to emulate the ABI of another OS.
OS/2 was also a great platform for games by that measure, thanks Win-OS/2.
OS/2 was also a great platform for games by that measure, thanks Win-OS/2.
I'm not really sure what you mean. You can play games on it. That's good enough for a lot of people. I don't really see why it being due to a compatibility layer or being native has much to do with my claim.
The Windows compatibility layer for OS/2 was one of the reasons why at the end of the day no one cared to create OS/2 applications, providing zero benefits to acquire it versus the real deal.
Same applies to GNU/Linux, hence Windows continues to thrive, while the 1% of the desktop folks get to taste Windows games with an ABI emulation layer.
Same applies to GNU/Linux, hence Windows continues to thrive, while the 1% of the desktop folks get to taste Windows games with an ABI emulation layer.
I think in contrast Linux has plenty going for it, especially in the context of Windows being increasingly buggy, bloated, advertising-ridden, telemetry sending behemoth which has frustrated users universally with mandated update policies.
Linux is mostly not being used because people don't have all the software they need and translation layers solve that.
We're entering a different space in desktop OS usage. Windows is changing the desktop metaphor to be more similar to macOS and mobile computing is being used by an increasing number of people as a daily driver.
In short, I don't think ABI emulation layers are the reason Linux is only at 1%. Indeed it was at 1% before Proton was released.
Linux is mostly not being used because people don't have all the software they need and translation layers solve that.
We're entering a different space in desktop OS usage. Windows is changing the desktop metaphor to be more similar to macOS and mobile computing is being used by an increasing number of people as a daily driver.
In short, I don't think ABI emulation layers are the reason Linux is only at 1%. Indeed it was at 1% before Proton was released.
It's not even close, it does not play most recents games.
Thankfully thanks to ProtonDB we can see exactly which games run and what the caveats are.
I think "it does not play most recent games" is untrue without qualification.
I think "it does not play most recent games" is untrue without qualification.
Importantly CS:GO runs better on Linux than on Windows on my hardware (and that is after tweaking Windows for max performance.)
CS:GO is far from a "recent" game. It still gets regularly updates sure, but it's nearly a decade old and the engine hasn't evolved in that time in a way that would make it comparable to a current-gen game.
> CS:GO is far from a "recent" game.
It is however one of todays most well known games.
It is however one of todays most well known games.
Sure, but that's not what was up for debate in the comment chain you were responding to. That was specifically about how well it handles "recent" games. Not how well it handles old but still popular games. WoW also runs great under Wine for example afaik.
I'm not diminishing the value of games like that running well under Wine, I think it's great. But it's not the same as "recent" games running well.
As one of the GPs points out anti-cheat is unfortunately another big hurdle. CS:GO works great because VAC runs in user-mode and Valve go out of their way to specifically detect Wine and adjust behavior as appropriate (I reverse engineered it extensively some years ago). I think EAC has a native Linux client, but many of the big names are still unplayable.
If you try to play Valorant, Apex, Siege, Warzone, PUBG, etc. my understanding is they'll barely even launch, let alone allow you to join a multiplayer match.
I'm not diminishing the value of games like that running well under Wine, I think it's great. But it's not the same as "recent" games running well.
As one of the GPs points out anti-cheat is unfortunately another big hurdle. CS:GO works great because VAC runs in user-mode and Valve go out of their way to specifically detect Wine and adjust behavior as appropriate (I reverse engineered it extensively some years ago). I think EAC has a native Linux client, but many of the big names are still unplayable.
If you try to play Valorant, Apex, Siege, Warzone, PUBG, etc. my understanding is they'll barely even launch, let alone allow you to join a multiplayer match.
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That ship departed in 2000.
Last I tried to run Roblox on wine the problem is Roblox policy officially consider Linux to be cheat software and ban anyone attempting that immediately.
That doesn't seem to be an issue now, tried it with Grapejuice and didn't get banned. From the Grapejuice Discord, this also seems to be the case for other Roblox on Linux users.
This is addressed in the article
I think that was the only program that prevented me from installing Linux on the kid PC
If anyone wants something like Roblox that is free (as in freedom) software and runs natively on GNU/Linux, check out Minetest. Similar blocky aesthetic, mods made in Lua just like Roblox, mod content only has to be on a server, so you can join without prior setup (unlike modded Minecraft, more like Garry's Mod and Roblox), and the game is also available on Android. Not just a similar game you play with other mobile players (the way Minecraft Pocket Edition was), rather the same real game with the ability to pick up where you left off on a computer and join the same server with the same mods using your credentials for that server.
I'm sure there are fewer players and less content, but it seems like a more sane base to build on for your creative ventures. They're not after your money the way Roblox often is either.
I'm sure there are fewer players and less content, but it seems like a more sane base to build on for your creative ventures. They're not after your money the way Roblox often is either.
You can run external games using Steam's Proton[1]. It's not mentioned in the article so I guess it's not any help?
[1] https://boilingsteam.com/valve-breaks-the-shackles-of-proton... or you could in 2019, anyway
[1] https://boilingsteam.com/valve-breaks-the-shackles-of-proton... or you could in 2019, anyway
Proton is implemented via Wine - it's like a collection of software and automatic configuration. You use Wine to implement Windows syscalls. Wine also has DXVK to convert the DirectX calls to Vulkan ones. So it's all the same stuff really.
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/
wine @ eef39a6 vkd3d-proton @ 72d9b32
Cobbling together existing tools is really powerful in games and graphics :)
https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/
wine @ eef39a6 vkd3d-proton @ 72d9b32
Cobbling together existing tools is really powerful in games and graphics :)
So powerful. I feel when many try doing this a lot reach for custom code instead of leaning established technology.
Building on wine just for games is an excellent thing too.
I just bought crossover for mac the other day (commercial wine tuned for games) and have been pleasantly surprised how well games run under it, esp. compares to my dual booted windows for some reason.
19 inch 2029 macbook pro
Building on wine just for games is an excellent thing too.
I just bought crossover for mac the other day (commercial wine tuned for games) and have been pleasantly surprised how well games run under it, esp. compares to my dual booted windows for some reason.
19 inch 2029 macbook pro
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Proton still has a lot of Steam integrations that make it a pain to use outside Steam. For example, Lutris no longer supports Proton.
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/pull/3330
https://github.com/lutris/lutris/pull/3330
and surprisingly this approach works incredibly well from my personal experience.
I've been manually setting up wine prefixes for my games, and until last week I had not run into any issues. For some reason, Ori and the Blind Forest DE could not see input from my controller.
When running the game through steam, everything works.
It's an excellent last resort, even if you're more comfortable using Wine directly.
It's an excellent last resort, even if you're more comfortable using Wine directly.
So for the most part, has roblox replaced most 'physical' building activities kids used to do in the 80s/90s/00s ? E.g. Lego/ going outside, building forts etc?
That’s mostly Minecraft, not Roblox. Lego is still super popular… and yes kids still do go outside and build forts.
Also if you’ve never played Minecraft, it is amazing, especially as a social experience, and it is very much not just for kids.
Also if you’ve never played Minecraft, it is amazing, especially as a social experience, and it is very much not just for kids.
Roblox is both a creation/building tool and a minigame building/playing tool.
Both of my kids love playing minigames with their friends, but don't build anything. Minecraft scratches their building itch for the most part.
Both of my kids love playing minigames with their friends, but don't build anything. Minecraft scratches their building itch for the most part.
No, it has probably replaced most 'gaming' activities kids used to do in the 80s/90s/00s - like Atari, GameBoy, Nintendo, Sega Genesis, etc.
Cool I guess, but a bit disappointing that it isn't just natively supported by Linux. I thought the team at Roblox would at least have enough people that were interested in helping kids create that they would see the value in creating a native Linux client.
Roblox developers weren't helpful at all.
i recently tried to install amoung us exe on phoenecis play on linux. there is this starting bug that is caused by shaders. i tried a few fixes but none worked. It looks like i need to wait for 6.11
I must be getting old. I am not sure I understand what Roblox even is.
undfg(4)
Someone needs to update https://lutris.net/games/roblox/
The variety is something that I don't see in the traditional game industry where a bug rpg / simulator probably wouldn't be a thing (anymore... sim ant..) but it somehow is in the Robox ecosystem.