My Electric Bike Is Not ‘Cheating.’ It Could Replace Cars for Millions of People(longreads.com)
longreads.com
My Electric Bike Is Not ‘Cheating.’ It Could Replace Cars for Millions of People
https://longreads.com/2017/05/19/my-electric-bike-is-not-cheating/
102 comments
So why not allow them on bike paths as long as they go the same speed as regular bicycles?
Typically if a bike path exists, it's because being on 2 wheels on the main road is extremely dangerous.
I'm interested in an e-bike, not to go faster, but because they "erase" the difference between hills and flat ground, and most of my routes are too steep to be pleasant on an unpowered bicycle.
Typically if a bike path exists, it's because being on 2 wheels on the main road is extremely dangerous.
I'm interested in an e-bike, not to go faster, but because they "erase" the difference between hills and flat ground, and most of my routes are too steep to be pleasant on an unpowered bicycle.
I agree, but it's effectively impossible to enforce. The latest electric bikes are visually almost indistinguishable from regular bikes. And police almost never have the resources to sit by a bike path with a radar gun.
The author is not necessarily a 'he'.
> ...I was wearing a skirt...
> posted by Pam Mandel
> ...I was wearing a skirt...
> posted by Pam Mandel
Do you seriously not have better things to do than police comment section for silly typos?
Well gender is part of someone's identity, so it's important to get it right. If you misgendered a person in real life, it might make them feel insecure about their looks and features and hurt their self-esteem. (a man might for example wonder if he is acting feminine) It's also more important on the internet and communities like this one which are commonly stereotyped as a boys club where male is the default and females are unicorns. (Also since pedantry is the current topic, allow me to point out that a typo refers to an unintentional error while transcribing, not spelling mistakes or using the wrong term, which while mistaken, are done consciously)
If your feelings get hurt because someone somewhere is talking about something you wrote/did and happens to use wrong gender when referring to you, you really need to seek therapy. Sure English sucks as a language since you even have something as stupid as gender specific pronouns, good (and proper) languages do not have such non-sense, but alas we are stuck with shitty language to use while communicating on the Interwebs.
Still, you should have something better to contribute than just go around fixing these small mistakes.
As for "boys club", I'm sure most men in all fields of engineering would love to have more women be a) interested in it b) working in it, but women seem to be drawn to different fields and it's not going to magically be better if you go policing comment section(s) on online forums. It's even gotten to point where in everything you read these days when people are referring to any imaginary person (like user does something or another) they always talk about "her" and "she" instead of even more ambiguous "their" or "user". What I'm trying to say is that your agenda is already been pushed on multiple fronts, trying to call people out for using wrong gender in a random comment is just silly.
Still, you should have something better to contribute than just go around fixing these small mistakes.
As for "boys club", I'm sure most men in all fields of engineering would love to have more women be a) interested in it b) working in it, but women seem to be drawn to different fields and it's not going to magically be better if you go policing comment section(s) on online forums. It's even gotten to point where in everything you read these days when people are referring to any imaginary person (like user does something or another) they always talk about "her" and "she" instead of even more ambiguous "their" or "user". What I'm trying to say is that your agenda is already been pushed on multiple fronts, trying to call people out for using wrong gender in a random comment is just silly.
There isn't any picture of the author in the article, so how would it make them feel insecure about their looks?
I was speaking in general terms. And there is a thumbnail.
In Sweden there is two requirements that distinguish a electric bike from a electric moped. A electric bike can only assist the rider, and the speed is limited to 15.5 mph. Any vehicle with a motor above that speed require a driver license and registration plate.
28 mph seems way to high for cycling roads, and as a owner of a electric bike I would too get annoyed if someone passed me at those speed.
28 mph seems way to high for cycling roads, and as a owner of a electric bike I would too get annoyed if someone passed me at those speed.
I've never lived anywhere near where I worked or studied - absolutely not within push-bike riding distance. So I used to ride a motorcycle. However, after several near misses with oblivious car drivers I decided I didn't want to die.
Riding a push-bike is great for your fitness, but it's not feasible if you have a long distance to travel every day. That can be assisted by public transport, but that means you need reasonable public transport - being drenched in sweat, trying to squeeze a push-bike onto a completely packed peak-time train service isn't fun for anyone.
Motorcycles (and scooters) actually make a lot of sense, they are extremely efficient as a personal mode of transport, quick and great for travelling most distances. In many places around the world (particularly certain Asian countries) motorcycles are hugely common. I wish that were the case in western countries and that people actually took motorcycle rider safety seriously. The stigma is really "do it at your own risk", which is down-right ridiculous given I never sped, lane-split or did anything even remotely dangerous on my motorcycle. If I was going to die it was at the hands of someone else, someone whose thought-process never considered motorcycles as a legitimate means of transport, never expected them on the road, and frankly never looked out for them.
It's a shame, driving around a large 5 seat vehicle for 1 person is an enormous waste in most cases.
Riding a push-bike is great for your fitness, but it's not feasible if you have a long distance to travel every day. That can be assisted by public transport, but that means you need reasonable public transport - being drenched in sweat, trying to squeeze a push-bike onto a completely packed peak-time train service isn't fun for anyone.
Motorcycles (and scooters) actually make a lot of sense, they are extremely efficient as a personal mode of transport, quick and great for travelling most distances. In many places around the world (particularly certain Asian countries) motorcycles are hugely common. I wish that were the case in western countries and that people actually took motorcycle rider safety seriously. The stigma is really "do it at your own risk", which is down-right ridiculous given I never sped, lane-split or did anything even remotely dangerous on my motorcycle. If I was going to die it was at the hands of someone else, someone whose thought-process never considered motorcycles as a legitimate means of transport, never expected them on the road, and frankly never looked out for them.
It's a shame, driving around a large 5 seat vehicle for 1 person is an enormous waste in most cases.
Thanks for mentioning the stigma around motorcycles and scooters in the U.S. They are seen as grown up toys, yet all over the world motorcycles serve as a primary means of transportation for millions of people. Careless drivers obviously aren't targeting motorcycles, but I think there's a collective lack of mindfulness to their presence on the road.
Anecdotally, I became a better car driver after just a few weeks of simply learning to ride a motorcycle on public roads.
Anecdotally, I became a better car driver after just a few weeks of simply learning to ride a motorcycle on public roads.
Scooters have a worse reputation: In Indiana, folks with scooters were either kids (as a 15-year-old can ride one), too poor for a car, or someone with a DUI conviction and that is their only transportation.
What did you learn from riding a motorcycle?
I'm not OP but I do ride and experienced the same.
If you're taking it seriously and respect the danger, you learn how to drive as if you are invisible. You learn to pay attention to and anticipate the movements of other drivers, to look at their wheels and not their eyes. Eyes lie, wheels do not.
You learn just how careless a shocking majority of people are behind the wheel of a two ton vehicle. You peek into every window for the glimpse of a hand reaching for a turn signal stalk, and all too often see a horrifying lack of attention paid to the road and a surplus of attention paid to a phone, eating, putting makeup on, putting contact lenses in, and smoking pot.
You learn to never hang out in a bind spot. Never!
You avoid situations where a car turning left in front of you (USA) has poor visibility. Usually due to a left turn lane and tight conditions. This exact scenario is responsible for a large percentage of moto accidents and anecdotally I have had two close calls myself, and I'm a highly cautious rider.
You avoid positions on the road which are statistically dangerous for riders.
Obviously these are things you can learn in a car, but it's just different. The stakes are higher for small accidents and you really are invisible to many people, even with hi-vis gear, motorcycles are just smaller at the end of the day and Americans are not used to them nor trained to keep them in mind on the road.
If you're taking it seriously and respect the danger, you learn how to drive as if you are invisible. You learn to pay attention to and anticipate the movements of other drivers, to look at their wheels and not their eyes. Eyes lie, wheels do not.
You learn just how careless a shocking majority of people are behind the wheel of a two ton vehicle. You peek into every window for the glimpse of a hand reaching for a turn signal stalk, and all too often see a horrifying lack of attention paid to the road and a surplus of attention paid to a phone, eating, putting makeup on, putting contact lenses in, and smoking pot.
You learn to never hang out in a bind spot. Never!
You avoid situations where a car turning left in front of you (USA) has poor visibility. Usually due to a left turn lane and tight conditions. This exact scenario is responsible for a large percentage of moto accidents and anecdotally I have had two close calls myself, and I'm a highly cautious rider.
You avoid positions on the road which are statistically dangerous for riders.
Obviously these are things you can learn in a car, but it's just different. The stakes are higher for small accidents and you really are invisible to many people, even with hi-vis gear, motorcycles are just smaller at the end of the day and Americans are not used to them nor trained to keep them in mind on the road.
Thanks for the reply. I agree not hanging out in someone's blind spot and anticipating other drivers' actions are extremely important things to keep in mind while driving.
Also a motorcyclist.
- We're trained to look and anticipate much further down the road than car drivers are.
- Unlike car drivers, we don't get to space out and rely on our mental autopilots to wake us up when something goes off-nominal. It's a much more active and deliberate process.
- We develop a "sixth sense" for when cars are going to change lanes without signaling (there are lots of cues: driver head movement, matching speed to find an open space, wheels turning, etc) and tend to catch these events far, far ahead of our current positions.
- Rounding curves is a highly deliberate process for motorcyclists, one of the biggest components being "look all the way through the turn." Since learning to ride, I no longer get surprised by developments around a corner, because I've been looking at and planning around them since before I entered the corner. I also get more frustrated by my A-pillar thwarting this attempt, lean so I can see around it, and would be less likely to buy a car with a dangerously enormous A-pillar like a Prius.
- Less safety-related, but I also now drive the way you're supposed to ride: slow down approaching the corner to create plenty of distance from the car ahead of you, look all the way through and plan your path through it, then accelerate through that path. Decelerating through a curve/turn is horrible for motorcycle stability and I get pissed off when people brake through curves in front of me, even in a car.
- We're trained to look and anticipate much further down the road than car drivers are.
- Unlike car drivers, we don't get to space out and rely on our mental autopilots to wake us up when something goes off-nominal. It's a much more active and deliberate process.
- We develop a "sixth sense" for when cars are going to change lanes without signaling (there are lots of cues: driver head movement, matching speed to find an open space, wheels turning, etc) and tend to catch these events far, far ahead of our current positions.
- Rounding curves is a highly deliberate process for motorcyclists, one of the biggest components being "look all the way through the turn." Since learning to ride, I no longer get surprised by developments around a corner, because I've been looking at and planning around them since before I entered the corner. I also get more frustrated by my A-pillar thwarting this attempt, lean so I can see around it, and would be less likely to buy a car with a dangerously enormous A-pillar like a Prius.
- Less safety-related, but I also now drive the way you're supposed to ride: slow down approaching the corner to create plenty of distance from the car ahead of you, look all the way through and plan your path through it, then accelerate through that path. Decelerating through a curve/turn is horrible for motorcycle stability and I get pissed off when people brake through curves in front of me, even in a car.
I haven't thought about how motorcycles would be more unstable going through a turn. Thanks!
Not the parent, but a fellow motorcyclist. The biggest thing for me was learning to better anticipate the actions of other motorists. A couple of other things you quickly learn are to always leave yourself an out and always be watching/scanning your surroundings.
Car drivers should be doing the same, but it's entirely too easy to get complacent.
Car drivers should be doing the same, but it's entirely too easy to get complacent.
I learned that car drivers cannot see motorbikes, so when I'm driving a car, I specifically look for them; every time I check the mirrors, or am waiting to pull out or across, I'm specifically looking for a motorbike, and when I shift lane I turn my head to see what model of motorbike is sitting in my blind spot.
There are not many motorcycle drivers near where I live and I noticed that they are more difficult to spot than other vehicles when you're changing lanes. I'll make sure to keep that in mind.
Nasty car-to-car crashes happen all the time, and it isn't because the drivers involved don't consider cars a valid means of transport. The difference is that you can walk away from most car-to-car crashes because you're ensconced in 3000 pounds of steel.
Perhaps it will make more sense when self-driving cars, or even just lane keeping and auto-braking cruise control become mainstream.
Perhaps it will make more sense when self-driving cars, or even just lane keeping and auto-braking cruise control become mainstream.
I agree that car accidents still happen. But honestly most my near misses with cars were outright insane.
One in particular gives me chills. I was driving along an empty road and a car wanted to make a right-hand turn onto the road. The car driver came to a stop at the side road, we were close and it was clear enough that I made eye contact with the middle-aged woman driver. I swear she looked me right in the eyes, then she proceeded to drive right out in front of me. I swerved, slammed on the brakes and slid up next to her car (luckily there was room on a single lane road). She just waved at me apologetically. I wore a bright red and white (with reflective strips) jacket, bright green and white pants, black and white reflective helmet and my motorcycle was bright green, it was the middle of the day (but not glary) and I had my headlights on regardless.
I'm absolutely convinced she saw me, we looked right at each other, she was just in a bit of a daze and a motorbike didn't register as a car, so she just pulled out. Now, it's true she could have done the same with a car. Obviously, I can't know for sure, but I absolutely believe if bikes were more common that situation just wouldn't have happened - at least, not like it did.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually in Australia. So for you US folk it was a left-hand turn she was making ;)
One in particular gives me chills. I was driving along an empty road and a car wanted to make a right-hand turn onto the road. The car driver came to a stop at the side road, we were close and it was clear enough that I made eye contact with the middle-aged woman driver. I swear she looked me right in the eyes, then she proceeded to drive right out in front of me. I swerved, slammed on the brakes and slid up next to her car (luckily there was room on a single lane road). She just waved at me apologetically. I wore a bright red and white (with reflective strips) jacket, bright green and white pants, black and white reflective helmet and my motorcycle was bright green, it was the middle of the day (but not glary) and I had my headlights on regardless.
I'm absolutely convinced she saw me, we looked right at each other, she was just in a bit of a daze and a motorbike didn't register as a car, so she just pulled out. Now, it's true she could have done the same with a car. Obviously, I can't know for sure, but I absolutely believe if bikes were more common that situation just wouldn't have happened - at least, not like it did.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually in Australia. So for you US folk it was a left-hand turn she was making ;)
I think many people are incredibly bad at judging the speed of unfamiliar moving objects. They get lots of training judging car (large object) speed, but their brains just cant properly guesstimate bike speed or something (little practice) -- like a non-baseball-player person trying to hit a fastball or something.
A bit like this? https://imgur.com/r/wtf/w7TLaja
as a motorcyclist, i see that situation as a complete death trap and would absolutely slow down approaching it. you have someone turning left and someone looking to turn right to eventually merge, two of the most dangerous situations on the road. and here you have this bicyclist just blasting through do not cross lines, not letting anyone be aware of what he's about to do, and seemingly without self-awareness. i personally see bicyclists as the most unpredictable things on the road. i feel for them, but i personally don't think they take the same precautions as motorcyclists. of course i'm generalizing, but i interact with them on a daily basis. they just scare me in whatever way i'm getting around: car driver, motorcyclist, pedestrian.
The car on the right is actually waiting to turn left onto the main road.
I agree the cyclist should have been in the left lane, though as a cyclist I also understand why he wasn't, but seems to me it should never surprise anyone when another vehicle continues in a straight line at a constant speed, notwithstanding the road markings. He was clearly not going to make the right turn; he was going much too fast, and made no movement in that direction. I think if the motorist had seen him at all they would waited for him to go by.
I agree the cyclist should have been in the left lane, though as a cyclist I also understand why he wasn't, but seems to me it should never surprise anyone when another vehicle continues in a straight line at a constant speed, notwithstanding the road markings. He was clearly not going to make the right turn; he was going much too fast, and made no movement in that direction. I think if the motorist had seen him at all they would waited for him to go by.
Ah, no. Not like that at all.
That cyclist is in a right turning lane and rode right over a painted traffic island. Not at all suggesting that gives the car the right to drive into them. However, being stupid is something motorcyclists (and I'd assume cyclists) generally try to avoid!
That cyclist is in a right turning lane and rode right over a painted traffic island. Not at all suggesting that gives the car the right to drive into them. However, being stupid is something motorcyclists (and I'd assume cyclists) generally try to avoid!
The cyclist should have been on the right side of the left lane rather than the left side of the right lane, that's true. But watching this, I'm not left with the impression that that would have made the slightest difference in this accident. The cyclist was clearly moving too fast to make the right turn; if the motorist had registered him at all, they would surely have waited.
The strangest thing about this video is that there's a considerable gap in traffic before the cyclist arrives at the intersection; the motorist had plenty of time to turn in front of him. I think the motorist had to have been drunk or texting or something; it almost looks like they intentionally waited to hit him.
I try to ride my e-bike very defensively -- and indeed I've never been hit by a car, though I've had a couple of close calls -- but I'm not at all sure I would have avoided this one.
The strangest thing about this video is that there's a considerable gap in traffic before the cyclist arrives at the intersection; the motorist had plenty of time to turn in front of him. I think the motorist had to have been drunk or texting or something; it almost looks like they intentionally waited to hit him.
I try to ride my e-bike very defensively -- and indeed I've never been hit by a car, though I've had a couple of close calls -- but I'm not at all sure I would have avoided this one.
I agree, the stigma is a bummer (though from my point of view not unwarranted; my dad has never walked the same after his accident).
I'm fairly excited about the Arcimoto SRK[1], which is supposed to be available in small quantities this year. It's supposed to be snappy and stable, goes up to highway speeds, and should be a fair bit safer than a motorcycle with the frame and roll cage. At $12k base, you're definitely paying a premium for the electric aspect, but I think it's reasonable. It's at least close to electric motorcycles (like Zeros[2]). How the weirdness of a three-wheeled vehicle (I see them around, but not often) will stack up against safety stigma remains to be seen.
[1] https://www.arcimoto.com/ [2] http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
I'm fairly excited about the Arcimoto SRK[1], which is supposed to be available in small quantities this year. It's supposed to be snappy and stable, goes up to highway speeds, and should be a fair bit safer than a motorcycle with the frame and roll cage. At $12k base, you're definitely paying a premium for the electric aspect, but I think it's reasonable. It's at least close to electric motorcycles (like Zeros[2]). How the weirdness of a three-wheeled vehicle (I see them around, but not often) will stack up against safety stigma remains to be seen.
[1] https://www.arcimoto.com/ [2] http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
I agree with motorbikes and scooters being more efficient land-use wise and fuel -wise --but in certain countries where they are abundant, it was not uncommon for me to witness riders flouting motor vehicle code (ignoring traffic lights, going against traffic, making unpredictable manoeuvers, casual helmet use, overloading, etc.), and I'm not talking about rural backwaters, I mean main cities with dedicated lanes for motorbikes. In my commuting, it was about once a week I witnessed something requiring an ambulance.
I commute on an electric bike in the Bay Area. Electric bikes are awesome to ride, but here are a summary of the main issues I've experienced so far:
- LIES, LIES, LIES ABOUT RANGE -- I have a Gigabyke (gigabyke.com) which ships with an SLA battery (a horrible design desicion) and claims a range of 35 miles and a maximum rider weight of 250 pounds. Good luck. I weigh half that and when I got it new, I clocked in exactly 23 miles before the battery crapped out. In Palo Alto, on flat ground, with no wind, on a nice sunny day. It struggles up hills. They really should have said "maxmum range 20 miles" and "maximum weight 150 pounds" if they wanted to be honest to customers. I replaced the battery with an aftermarket Lithium battery and get more acceptable performance now, but that does take some EE handywork.
- REGULATION -- In California at least, it's technically a motorcycle if it goes past 20 mph. People hate seeing your electric bike on bike paths though. So you're forced to travel with 35-40 mph cars. On something that's hard-limited to 20 mph because of some silly law. The 20 mph limit actually makes them more unsafe. (This likely applies to a lot of US states. China doesn't have this problem; most electric bikes there don't have artifically imposed limits and are only limited by their motors.)
- RED LIGHTS -- they never turn green, at least in much of the Bay Area. You're forced to run them because the sensors can't sense you. And it's illegal to ride onto the sidewalk to hit the pedestrian crossing light button.
- HEAVY -- sure, they ship with pedals. They advertise that you can use them. But I'm downright exhausted after pedaling my electric bike for 100 meters. In short, if you are at risk of running out of battery, use a normal bike instead, which can be recharged by ... eating. I can comfortably go 100 km a day on a normal bike as long as I have food and water available, whereas most electric bikes will cop out at less than 40 km. So ... great for commuting, not great for recreation.
On the plus side, they're super fun to ride, make a commute on a hot day much more pleasant than a bike ride, are super-easy to park in congested cities, help you avoid inhaling large amounts of carbon monoxide on your rush-hour commute, and ideal for getting around large school campuses where you can find charging outlets pretty much anywhere. So I love riding mine, overall. Just pointing out that they aren't totally mature technology just yet.
- LIES, LIES, LIES ABOUT RANGE -- I have a Gigabyke (gigabyke.com) which ships with an SLA battery (a horrible design desicion) and claims a range of 35 miles and a maximum rider weight of 250 pounds. Good luck. I weigh half that and when I got it new, I clocked in exactly 23 miles before the battery crapped out. In Palo Alto, on flat ground, with no wind, on a nice sunny day. It struggles up hills. They really should have said "maxmum range 20 miles" and "maximum weight 150 pounds" if they wanted to be honest to customers. I replaced the battery with an aftermarket Lithium battery and get more acceptable performance now, but that does take some EE handywork.
- REGULATION -- In California at least, it's technically a motorcycle if it goes past 20 mph. People hate seeing your electric bike on bike paths though. So you're forced to travel with 35-40 mph cars. On something that's hard-limited to 20 mph because of some silly law. The 20 mph limit actually makes them more unsafe. (This likely applies to a lot of US states. China doesn't have this problem; most electric bikes there don't have artifically imposed limits and are only limited by their motors.)
- RED LIGHTS -- they never turn green, at least in much of the Bay Area. You're forced to run them because the sensors can't sense you. And it's illegal to ride onto the sidewalk to hit the pedestrian crossing light button.
- HEAVY -- sure, they ship with pedals. They advertise that you can use them. But I'm downright exhausted after pedaling my electric bike for 100 meters. In short, if you are at risk of running out of battery, use a normal bike instead, which can be recharged by ... eating. I can comfortably go 100 km a day on a normal bike as long as I have food and water available, whereas most electric bikes will cop out at less than 40 km. So ... great for commuting, not great for recreation.
On the plus side, they're super fun to ride, make a commute on a hot day much more pleasant than a bike ride, are super-easy to park in congested cities, help you avoid inhaling large amounts of carbon monoxide on your rush-hour commute, and ideal for getting around large school campuses where you can find charging outlets pretty much anywhere. So I love riding mine, overall. Just pointing out that they aren't totally mature technology just yet.
> In California at least, it's technically a motorcycle if it goes past 20 mph
No longer true! New laws [0] went into effect at the beginning of this year. There is now such a thing as a Class 3 e-bike that can provide assistance up to 28mph. (I find that's about as fast as I want to go anyway.) When I have to mix it up with cars, the extra speed is a big help.
As for weight, it's really a matter of how much money you want to spend. My e-bike is a converted touring bike, with an EcoSpeed mid-drive, and the weight is very reasonable. I usually bike in to work using leg power (there's a shower at the office) and cruise home with the motor in the evening. There's probably somebody building e-bikes that are also good bicycles; if not, do your own conversion. -- Oh! I just went to the Gigabyke web site. Those aren't e-bikes; those are electric mopeds! Maybe technically they can get away with calling them e-bikes, but they obviously have much heavier frames and wheels. 180 lb, yikes! Okay, I just weighed my bike, and it's 54 lb with battery -- certainly not light by bicycle standards, but entirely tolerable for pedaling.
My bike has a steel frame, so I have no trouble with traffic light sensors. I'm very surprised you do, with 180 lb of metal underneath you!
[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...
No longer true! New laws [0] went into effect at the beginning of this year. There is now such a thing as a Class 3 e-bike that can provide assistance up to 28mph. (I find that's about as fast as I want to go anyway.) When I have to mix it up with cars, the extra speed is a big help.
As for weight, it's really a matter of how much money you want to spend. My e-bike is a converted touring bike, with an EcoSpeed mid-drive, and the weight is very reasonable. I usually bike in to work using leg power (there's a shower at the office) and cruise home with the motor in the evening. There's probably somebody building e-bikes that are also good bicycles; if not, do your own conversion. -- Oh! I just went to the Gigabyke web site. Those aren't e-bikes; those are electric mopeds! Maybe technically they can get away with calling them e-bikes, but they obviously have much heavier frames and wheels. 180 lb, yikes! Okay, I just weighed my bike, and it's 54 lb with battery -- certainly not light by bicycle standards, but entirely tolerable for pedaling.
My bike has a steel frame, so I have no trouble with traffic light sensors. I'm very surprised you do, with 180 lb of metal underneath you!
[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...
There's probably somebody building e-bikes that are also good bicycles; if not, do your own conversion.
A friend told me to look into Currie-powered bikes: http://www.currietech.com/brands.html. Many of those look promising, though I can't speak directly to riding them.
A friend told me to look into Currie-powered bikes: http://www.currietech.com/brands.html. Many of those look promising, though I can't speak directly to riding them.
Were you using only electric when you went the 23 miles? I live in Japan now and all the bikes are "electric-assist." You still have to pedal and it just feels like someone is pushing you or you are in a much higher gear than you are.
On my regular bike in the bay area (Berkeley area), I was able to turn 95% of the signals green by stopping right on the sensors (I rode a motorcycle too so I knew where they were). There was 1 signal that I could never change to green with my bicycle and the crosswalk button was reachable from the street. I always rode on the 'smaller' roads for what it's worth.
On my regular bike in the bay area (Berkeley area), I was able to turn 95% of the signals green by stopping right on the sensors (I rode a motorcycle too so I knew where they were). There was 1 signal that I could never change to green with my bicycle and the crosswalk button was reachable from the street. I always rode on the 'smaller' roads for what it's worth.
Mine would be worthless trying to assist it. The motor drives it at 20mph and pedalling it at 3mph is horribly exhausting after even 100 metres. (Mine weighs 180 pounds ...)
Personally I don't see much value in electric assist. If I am looking to exercise, I just use my non-electric carbon fiber road bike. And the same amount of exertion translates to a LOT more speed on that road bike than the same amount of exertion assisting a 50-200 pound e-bike. If I'm riding an e-bike, it's usually specifically because I don't want to be exerting myself (e.g. hills, commuting to work, hot days, tired, carrying groceries).
I'd much rather e-bikes just came with insane amounts of battery that rival the range of gas scooters rather than trying to be this weird mish-mash of hey-it's-electric-but-you-still-have-to-pedal-because-we-are-being-cheap-and-only-putting-a-tiny-little-motor-and-inadequate-battery.
Personally I don't see much value in electric assist. If I am looking to exercise, I just use my non-electric carbon fiber road bike. And the same amount of exertion translates to a LOT more speed on that road bike than the same amount of exertion assisting a 50-200 pound e-bike. If I'm riding an e-bike, it's usually specifically because I don't want to be exerting myself (e.g. hills, commuting to work, hot days, tired, carrying groceries).
I'd much rather e-bikes just came with insane amounts of battery that rival the range of gas scooters rather than trying to be this weird mish-mash of hey-it's-electric-but-you-still-have-to-pedal-because-we-are-being-cheap-and-only-putting-a-tiny-little-motor-and-inadequate-battery.
IMHO there's nothing inherently wrong with a cyclist "running" a red light. Cyclists are likely to be more aware of traffic conditions than motorists, and they have a strong interest in ensuring intersections are clear before entering. As with anything else, judgment matters. It's unfortunate that occasionally motorists will be sitting at a red light when they see a cyclist carefully approach the intersection and cross when it's safe to do so, rather than when the light turns green. That experience will be frustrating, but they'll have to get over it.
It's not the opinions of the car drivers that matter, but those of the police that might spot you: I got a Breathalyzer test and a 70 EUR ticket for doing just that on a bicycle in a mid-sized town in Germany on a Sunday evening, still light out. The Breathalyzer probably happened because "running" a red light after a minute at a dead stop probably looked particularly crazy.
If you didn't see the cop, you might not have been as aware of your surroundings as one ought to be to run a red? Nevertheless I've found police in general not to care too much about what cyclists do. Once when I was cycling while completely wasted, a cop simply told me to walk my bike the rest of the way home. Which I did.
It is much more an issue when the police and the law think it is wrong for a cyclist to run a red light. This requires law changes: something like you can hit the crosswalk, but have to dismount the bike and walk across the pedestrian crossing.
Cyclist here. It's a different type of vehicle than a leg-powered bike and therefore not cheating at all... unless you're recording your rides on Strava, then it is.
More bikes is a very good thing, whether human or human/electric powered.
More bikes is a very good thing, whether human or human/electric powered.
Motorcyclist here. I agree. If it's got two wheels and it makes you smile, it's a good thing. :)
> unless you're recording your rides on Strava,
Strava has a E-Bike ride classification, so it would be no different to recording your normal bike ride as a run.
I had a electric bike and regularly recorded by rides on Strava. Comparing it to others doesn't make much sense, but comparing it to yourself and watching your fitness improve is as satisfying as ever.
Strava has a E-Bike ride classification, so it would be no different to recording your normal bike ride as a run.
I had a electric bike and regularly recorded by rides on Strava. Comparing it to others doesn't make much sense, but comparing it to yourself and watching your fitness improve is as satisfying as ever.
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I have a couple of friends with e-bikes and they sound like a lot of fun. My only problem with them is that, by the time you've added 10-15kg of running gear to a bike, you've entered a feedback loop where the bike's heavier, and it goes faster, so it needs wider tyres, better brakes... and now is even heavier and harder to pedal, so it needs more power... pretty soon you have something that's enough of a motorbike that you can't pedal it unassisted and should really be wearing proper safety gear, but still enough of a bicycle that it's not a very good motorbike.
You really should be adding under 5kg for electric assist. As long as you can easily recharge at work ~100w for 1h is really plenty of power in most areas. On level ground you only need ~60w to do 15 km/h which is about the energy output from walking. Add 100w assist and you can get up modest hills fast enough to stay balanced without all that much effort which means you can show up at work without needing to shower most days.
I don't find this at all. I built my e-bike by converting an old Univega touring bike with a 1300W EcoSpeed mid-drive. Even with a 670Wh battery it comes to less than 10kg additional weight. As a touring bike, it was already built to carry a load, so the rims and tires are fine. The cantilever brakes are adequate; discs would be better, but the bike wasn't built for them.
Top speed on level ground is about 28mph (45 km/h), which is a speed one could easily hit going downhill without a motor, so the bike is well within its intended performance envelope.
I like this setup because it's still easy enough to pedal -- not like a racing bike, of course, but again, well within the amount of weight one might be carrying when touring -- and when I don't feel like pedaling, I don't have to.
Top speed on level ground is about 28mph (45 km/h), which is a speed one could easily hit going downhill without a motor, so the bike is well within its intended performance envelope.
I like this setup because it's still easy enough to pedal -- not like a racing bike, of course, but again, well within the amount of weight one might be carrying when touring -- and when I don't feel like pedaling, I don't have to.
The optimal build I found is an internal geared motor (they are smaller / lighter), and under 3kg. That, plus the battery pack I got weighs around 3.5 kg, and is 700 watt-hours, which is enough for around 40 - 60 miles of assist at 15 - 20 mph, assuming you are putting in enough peddling that would normally get your bike to about 10 - 12 mph.
Through happenstance I rode an bike with electric pedal assist a couple years ago, thinking that electric bikes were not for me, but why not try. I was instantly hooked, the high-quality pedal assists feel "magical", like you are just stronger or that your always headed down a gentle slope. They are also very quiet which helps make the experience (at least for me) a bit dream-like and surreal.
I really recommend everyone give one a test ride. For us, it ended up replacing our second car.
I really recommend everyone give one a test ride. For us, it ended up replacing our second car.
Through happenstance I rode an bike with electric pedal assist a couple years ago, thinking that electric bikes were not for me, but why not try. I was instantly hooked, the high-quality pedal assists feel "magical",
I think this is a key point and what many, many people are missing in this thread. Ebikes can seem kinda lame or gimmicky. Then you actually try riding one and they suddenly make a lot more sense.
I think this is a key point and what many, many people are missing in this thread. Ebikes can seem kinda lame or gimmicky. Then you actually try riding one and they suddenly make a lot more sense.
Electric bikes are really taking off in China. I wrote down my thoughts a while ago. Will copy and paste here:
Like a car, they offer cheap on-demand transit to your exact destination. Unlike a car they do not support long distances, heavy loads or more than 2 people, but often those features are not needed by the urban commuter. Furthermore they lack many of the drawbacks of a car; getting stuck in traffic, the need for parking, the need for insurance, licensing requirements, high fuel requirements etc. Furthermore an e-bike is a signifigantly smaller investment than a car. Having it lost, stolen or damaged poses less of a personal risk to your finances. Unlike a classical bike, e-bike's do not require the user to be in shape or even exert effort to operate. Thus we see that in the personal transport market, e-bikes represent the best of both worlds for the urban commuter. We can see proof by demonstration that in the right conditions they can be enormously popular (China). Why haven't they taken off all over the world yet?
1. Topography. They are generally not powerfull enough to go up steep hills. Sadly this rules out San Fransisco which would otherwise be quick to pick up on an eco-friendly trend.
2. Regulation. These vehicles neither qualify as motorcycles nor bicycles and thus are often ambiguous or de facto illegal in many parts of the states.
3. Weather. Driving at 40 Km/hr in the cold of winter is unpleasant. The otherwise perfect markets of the flat mid-west and dense+flat New York may find this a deal breaker. Sun-belt cities without too much sprawl (Eg San Diego) are the only place in the states that are a perfect match. The Chinese have invented a rather unfashionable "bike apron" to make the cold weather driving tolerable.
I think point 2 is a huge mistake. If the US is serious about green technologies, deregulating e-bikes would be a huge boon.
Like a car, they offer cheap on-demand transit to your exact destination. Unlike a car they do not support long distances, heavy loads or more than 2 people, but often those features are not needed by the urban commuter. Furthermore they lack many of the drawbacks of a car; getting stuck in traffic, the need for parking, the need for insurance, licensing requirements, high fuel requirements etc. Furthermore an e-bike is a signifigantly smaller investment than a car. Having it lost, stolen or damaged poses less of a personal risk to your finances. Unlike a classical bike, e-bike's do not require the user to be in shape or even exert effort to operate. Thus we see that in the personal transport market, e-bikes represent the best of both worlds for the urban commuter. We can see proof by demonstration that in the right conditions they can be enormously popular (China). Why haven't they taken off all over the world yet?
1. Topography. They are generally not powerfull enough to go up steep hills. Sadly this rules out San Fransisco which would otherwise be quick to pick up on an eco-friendly trend.
2. Regulation. These vehicles neither qualify as motorcycles nor bicycles and thus are often ambiguous or de facto illegal in many parts of the states.
3. Weather. Driving at 40 Km/hr in the cold of winter is unpleasant. The otherwise perfect markets of the flat mid-west and dense+flat New York may find this a deal breaker. Sun-belt cities without too much sprawl (Eg San Diego) are the only place in the states that are a perfect match. The Chinese have invented a rather unfashionable "bike apron" to make the cold weather driving tolerable.
I think point 2 is a huge mistake. If the US is serious about green technologies, deregulating e-bikes would be a huge boon.
I recently rode the electric share bikes in Beijing.
It was a fantastic experience. Pick up from anywhere, leave anywhere.
Share bikes are getting huge in China, sometimes causing a mess. But the white electric share bikes in Beijing were a fantastic experience and could have a big impact on the cities pollution and transportation issues.
It was a fantastic experience. Pick up from anywhere, leave anywhere.
Share bikes are getting huge in China, sometimes causing a mess. But the white electric share bikes in Beijing were a fantastic experience and could have a big impact on the cities pollution and transportation issues.
It could replace cars as long as it's not snowing, or raining, or too cold outside, or you don't have stuff to carry.
You know what could replace cars for millions of people? A subway. But first we have to work on legalizing high-density urban environments with narrow streets...
You know what could replace cars for millions of people? A subway. But first we have to work on legalizing high-density urban environments with narrow streets...
I live in a city in Norway.
Rain? Yeah, that's really no issue. Just dress properly and maybe take a change of clothes. Grocery store trips? Totally doable. I walk to the grocery and carry the stuff back. I did so in the states too - you just don't make huge trips. A lot of commuter bikes have places to carry your basic stuff anyway. Add a backpack and you are generally good. Too cold? Again, dress well most of the time and it isn't much of an issue. Your tolerance for cold grows over time. I'm not sure walking is warmer: On one hand, you move slower but on the other, it takes longer. Some forms of cold do suck, but one deals.
Now, I'd like to agree with you on snow and ice. It seems risky to me - but I'm from Indiana. But they sell studded tires for bikes, and folks ride them in the winter here in town.
Rain? Yeah, that's really no issue. Just dress properly and maybe take a change of clothes. Grocery store trips? Totally doable. I walk to the grocery and carry the stuff back. I did so in the states too - you just don't make huge trips. A lot of commuter bikes have places to carry your basic stuff anyway. Add a backpack and you are generally good. Too cold? Again, dress well most of the time and it isn't much of an issue. Your tolerance for cold grows over time. I'm not sure walking is warmer: On one hand, you move slower but on the other, it takes longer. Some forms of cold do suck, but one deals.
Now, I'd like to agree with you on snow and ice. It seems risky to me - but I'm from Indiana. But they sell studded tires for bikes, and folks ride them in the winter here in town.
Studded tires on a 2 wheeled vehicle require real skill to handle. Like near snowboarding levels with generally worse crash consequences (pavement not snow)
Most communities will be filled with e-bikes long before they get a subway.
Sure, more communities could get e-bikes before they get subways. But this isn't an appropriate metric because it puts a tiny village on the same footing as a dense city.
To really get somewhere, we have to look a little deeper and ask "where do the majority of people live?"
The populations of large metropolitan areas in the United States:
NYC: 20.2 million LA: 13.1 million Chicago: 9.5 million SF: 4.6 million Seattle: 3.7 million Denver: 2.8 million
According to the last census, 62.7% of Americans live in cities: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....
To really get somewhere, we have to look a little deeper and ask "where do the majority of people live?"
The populations of large metropolitan areas in the United States:
NYC: 20.2 million LA: 13.1 million Chicago: 9.5 million SF: 4.6 million Seattle: 3.7 million Denver: 2.8 million
According to the last census, 62.7% of Americans live in cities: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....
Four of those already have a subway. (Of course their subways could probably be improved...) Denver will never have a subway. It has a fair light rail system, to which more lines and stops could probably be added, but it will never be dense enough that a subway would be an improvement. I haven't spent much time in Seattle.
I'm an avid cycle commuter(20 miles round trip every day) and would never consider ebikes cheating.
I do however find the traditional bicycle, due to its simplicity, reliability, and efficiency, to be one of our best inventions.
I do however find the traditional bicycle, due to its simplicity, reliability, and efficiency, to be one of our best inventions.
Electric bikes are very popular in Tokyo. Many nurseries and schools forbid car drop offs of children. So parents speed around on e-bikes. Ive seen some parents with three kids on their bike. Child seat on front, child seat on back and baby in chest carrier.
They don't do car accidents in Japan? Astonishing.
I agree with the main thesis, but from the exchange, it just sounded like the biker was giving the author some gentle ribbing.
It's funny that the author writes about biking in Seattle and using transit to get around. I'm a little jealous.
I'd love to commute like this except that I live on the west side of Lake Washington and my job is on the east side of it[0]. And I work odd hours. There are exactly two bus route combinations that will get me across the lake: route 545 is a straight shot and route 550+RapidRide B is the one with the transfer. Except that, especially on days with nice weather like today, the bus is unusable when I leave work because all three slots on the bike rack may be filled and Sound Transit / King County Metro has an absolute rule against bringing a non-folding bike onto a bus[1].
I wish I could bike to work, and thus get used to biking more for general stuff. But I can't count on being able to bring my bike back home with me at night so it's walking+buses for me. I suppose I will just wait five years until East Link arrives at Northgate.
0 - Changing jobs or moving house are both non-starters since I've worked where I have for a very long time, almost two decades, and I'm lucky enough to have bought a small house.
1 - Sound Transit and King County both say that bikes are unsafe to carry on bus transit because the bus operates on a road and unexpected things might happen. My rebuttal has always been: OK, so why are bikes allowed on Link south of International District Station? Because, pardon my technicality, the train is also operating in the road. Or why are bikes allowed to be walked onto either streetcar (both of which are operated by King County Metro) since both very much operate in mixed traffic?
I'd love to commute like this except that I live on the west side of Lake Washington and my job is on the east side of it[0]. And I work odd hours. There are exactly two bus route combinations that will get me across the lake: route 545 is a straight shot and route 550+RapidRide B is the one with the transfer. Except that, especially on days with nice weather like today, the bus is unusable when I leave work because all three slots on the bike rack may be filled and Sound Transit / King County Metro has an absolute rule against bringing a non-folding bike onto a bus[1].
I wish I could bike to work, and thus get used to biking more for general stuff. But I can't count on being able to bring my bike back home with me at night so it's walking+buses for me. I suppose I will just wait five years until East Link arrives at Northgate.
0 - Changing jobs or moving house are both non-starters since I've worked where I have for a very long time, almost two decades, and I'm lucky enough to have bought a small house.
1 - Sound Transit and King County both say that bikes are unsafe to carry on bus transit because the bus operates on a road and unexpected things might happen. My rebuttal has always been: OK, so why are bikes allowed on Link south of International District Station? Because, pardon my technicality, the train is also operating in the road. Or why are bikes allowed to be walked onto either streetcar (both of which are operated by King County Metro) since both very much operate in mixed traffic?
I have an ebike with relatively high power and a large battery because I live in the mountains with steep hills. My regular bike is pretty much useless near home. But my ebike has made me a cyclist again, and the only word to describe it is "joy." If you get a mid-drive ebike with at least 750 watts of power, you'll have no problem on San Francisco hills. I almost wish I lived in SF (almost) just to ride this bike there.
It really won't. The fact is that even with an ebike, your effective radius is maybe fifteen miles in one day, which will take 45 minutes to an hour to cycle. Most people in the USA who need cars simply need transportation that is powered for longer and gives much longer of a range.
It also needs to be operated in many types of weather conditions, like snow, and often needs to cary four passengers or merchandise that takes up the same amount of room. One that isn't vulnerable to theft or stripping.
Also, for the price of a good one, you could get a gas powered moped or 50cc scooter, and watch your range extend dramatically with instant "recharging."
It also needs to be operated in many types of weather conditions, like snow, and often needs to cary four passengers or merchandise that takes up the same amount of room. One that isn't vulnerable to theft or stripping.
Also, for the price of a good one, you could get a gas powered moped or 50cc scooter, and watch your range extend dramatically with instant "recharging."
I think a big caveat here is "in cities". The author is from Seattle so I think they're writing from a perspective of someone for whom downtown is the furthest place they have to commute in a day. The other example given in the article quotes New York City. (and both quotes mention "urban")
Just curious about people who commented here. Did anyone read the article? Or just read the title and then comments on what they think about electric bikes?
I haven't read the article, and this seems to be the case for tons and tons of these threads.
I haven't read the article, and this seems to be the case for tons and tons of these threads.
I have very mixed feelings about riding bikes in cities. The health benefits can be completely negated (or worse) depending on the air quality around where you are riding. There are certainly reasons to ride other than that -- speed, freedom, etc. Electric bikes are good in that you can get to your destination faster than a regular bike, reducing exposure to the mentioned issues. There are few downsides to going electric -- hardly cheating.
If you live in a city where the air quality is so bad that getting outdoor exercise is worse than not exercising, then you ought to move out of that city since it's killing you.
Sitting in a car is still worse as you're exposed to same air but got no benefit. (unless you sit in HEPA filtered tesla or something...)
Although a HEPA filter can be very helpful, it does not remove most of the pollutants in car exhaust (CO, NOx, SOx).
PM2.5 particles are thing that give you cancer and higher concentrations are related to car traffic.
PM10 are not healthy either.
PM10 are not healthy either.
Oh, sure, but again the CO, NOx, SOx and most of the unburnt hydrocarbons in gasoline-fueled vehicle exhaust are not particles (they're gasses) and are not removed to any significant degree by a HEPA filter.
In the US, diesel cars are rare, and I would guess that the non-diesel cars in the US produce very little in the way of particulate pollution. Am I wrong about that?
In the US, diesel cars are rare, and I would guess that the non-diesel cars in the US produce very little in the way of particulate pollution. Am I wrong about that?
Hmm. According to this https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents...
Most particulates are from exhaust but amount of this is falling and soon most contributing factor would be brake/tire wear.
Most particulates are from exhaust but amount of this is falling and soon most contributing factor would be brake/tire wear.
That's why I used the qualifier "gasoline-fueled": the particulates are coming mostly from _diesel_ engines.
(I didn't belabor that point earlier because I assumed that people here would already know that because the VW diesel-emissions cheating scandal was such a big story.)
During a busy commute in a major US metro area, the vast majority of the vehicles on the road are gas-powered (because a large fraction of trucks will avoid busy commutes). I realize the situation is different in Europe where diesel-powered cars are much more common.
(I didn't belabor that point earlier because I assumed that people here would already know that because the VW diesel-emissions cheating scandal was such a big story.)
During a busy commute in a major US metro area, the vast majority of the vehicles on the road are gas-powered (because a large fraction of trucks will avoid busy commutes). I realize the situation is different in Europe where diesel-powered cars are much more common.
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I have a yuba mundo cargo bike with a BBSHD 750W motor and Panasonic 52V battery. The whole setup costs around 2.5K, as I did the electric setup myself. It has been great as I can carry 2 kids on it, and as I live in a urban environment I never worry about parking. The BBSHD is a powerful motor and has been trouble free.
> I can carry 2 kids on it
Are you nuts? Do you want them to die?
Are you nuts? Do you want them to die?
They are in child seats, the Yuba is a great bike that is rated for over 700 pounds and has lots of child friendly adapters.
You can see more examples of parents pushing their kids in cargo bikes here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yy3kXIaKp8
Without electric it can be a real workout, but with electric assist its so much more fun. The kids cry these days if we tell them they need to go into the car.
You can buy a Yuba with Electric from the company, but its 5K which seemed way too much when you can do it yourself for 1/2 the price.
You can see more examples of parents pushing their kids in cargo bikes here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yy3kXIaKp8
Without electric it can be a real workout, but with electric assist its so much more fun. The kids cry these days if we tell them they need to go into the car.
You can buy a Yuba with Electric from the company, but its 5K which seemed way too much when you can do it yourself for 1/2 the price.
Have you thought of what would happen if you collided with a car?
And then, have you thought of what would happen if you were in a car?
In the car, you have a crumple zone.
In the bike, your kids are the crumple zone.
And then, have you thought of what would happen if you were in a car?
In the car, you have a crumple zone.
In the bike, your kids are the crumple zone.
Any particular reason you say that? The Mundo is an extended-frame cargo bike that has really excellent accommodations for carrying two kids (or a week's worth of groceries, or a hundred kilos of other cargo).
It's a decent article, but I don't believe for a second that exchange at the beginning actually happened
It's plausable from my experience riding an ebike. I've been yelled at by cyclists claiming that I'm not allowed to use trails, etc. and from /r/ebikes it's common to read that many cyclists call ebike riders "cheaters".
I wouldn't care about the cheating part but if you are able to drive considerably more power through your back wheel than you could without the motor please stay off of mountain bike trails. The trails get destroyed by the back wheel spinning up coming out of every corner
and you end up with heavily rutted motocross style erosion.
Depending on your locality and the power of your eBike, they may be right -- eBikes are restricted on many trails.
Yes, but in my area they are allowed on bike trails unless specifically signed otherwise (I've never seen such a sign).
I've never heard of these trail restrictions on the east coast. I wonder if it is a west coast thing.
It's really hard to generalize since state and local laws vary so much.
For example, in Massachusetts, eBikes are allowed on bike paths, but not off-road bike trails:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Ch...
Motorized bicycles may be operated on bicycle lanes adjacent to the various ways, but shall be excluded from off-street recreational bicycle paths
For example, in Massachusetts, eBikes are allowed on bike paths, but not off-road bike trails:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Ch...
Motorized bicycles may be operated on bicycle lanes adjacent to the various ways, but shall be excluded from off-street recreational bicycle paths
Reminds me of this great video I just saw about the new Motochimp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEiJHq1Izwg
How expensive is an electric bike? How do you keep it from getting stolen?
Mine costs about $1,000: https://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/pas/lineup/city-c/
But I'm in Tokyo so I'm not worried about theft at all. It has an integrated lock on the back wheel and this blocks the handle too.
But I'm in Tokyo so I'm not worried about theft at all. It has an integrated lock on the back wheel and this blocks the handle too.
Tokyo is the best.
In China, they're about $300-$500 with lithium-ion battery. You can also get a kit (batteries, wheel with motor, wiring/etc) to convert a regular bike even more cheaply. The battery is the high-value part so you can take it out if you park outside overnight.
I used to ride an ebike to work and my workmate sometimes rode a fancy racing bike. He had special tyres and clothes and all sorts of expensive stuff to make it easier. He also had to park it in the lunch room instead of the carpark because he was afraid it'd get stolen. I once asked him why he doesn't just put a motor on it and he wasn't happy with that at all. I don't remember his response other than some kind of arrogant dismissal.
If a motor is cheating, then thin tyres, carbon fiber frames and aerodynamic helmets are cheating too. They all reduce the human effort.
If a motor is cheating, then thin tyres, carbon fiber frames and aerodynamic helmets are cheating too. They all reduce the human effort.
If I'm going to travel more than 3 kilometres or so, I'm doing it in a car. Motorcycles and cycles are just too unsafe for daily commuting, no matter how environmentally friendly. They will never replace cars for "millions of people".
Where do you live (where it is unsafe)? There are millions in my country (India) who safely use bicycles, mopeds, and motorbikes. The degree of safety depends upon the culture of the city as well as the road (highway, valley, etc).
> There are millions in my country (India) who safely use bicycles, mopeds, and motorbikes.
Every part of that statement is true except for the word "safely". I first got my driver's license in India, drove motorcycles and cars there, and then moved to the US. Based on my experience, as well as publicly available data, I can state as an objective fact that most drivers in India are terrible. You only have to look at the fatalities per million kilometers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... India is approximately 5x worse than the UK, which is near top of the list. Even taking into account the differences in quality of roads and emergency medical services, that's an _enormous_ difference. To a first approximation, any adult bicyclist in India cycles out of necessity (can't afford anything safer) not choice (again, first approximation; I have a retired uncle who cycles 40km every weekend for exercise). Motorbike and moped-riders are a bit of a mixed bag; some people who can't afford a car, others who prefer it for traffic and parking advantages.
Whenever I visit India, it's astonishing to me the number of risks drivers (of cars, 2-wheelers and trucks alike) take with their own and other people's lives for very little gain. The concept of a lane is alien to most drivers, motorbikes speed like crazy and weave in and out of traffic (even I used to do it when I was younger and didn't know any better), no one ever yields to pedestrians, traffic signals don't work or aren't followed unless there's a cop standing there. I could go on and on.
Lest you think I'm a total wuss, I love cycling in the US and it's my preferred mode of transportation for trips under 10 km. I've done plenty of cycling and motorbike riding in India also. But I would not dare ride a 2-wheeler on public roads in India on a consistent basis anymore. At least not until our driver training, licensing, testing, and enforcement regime becomes much stricter than it currently is.
Every part of that statement is true except for the word "safely". I first got my driver's license in India, drove motorcycles and cars there, and then moved to the US. Based on my experience, as well as publicly available data, I can state as an objective fact that most drivers in India are terrible. You only have to look at the fatalities per million kilometers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... India is approximately 5x worse than the UK, which is near top of the list. Even taking into account the differences in quality of roads and emergency medical services, that's an _enormous_ difference. To a first approximation, any adult bicyclist in India cycles out of necessity (can't afford anything safer) not choice (again, first approximation; I have a retired uncle who cycles 40km every weekend for exercise). Motorbike and moped-riders are a bit of a mixed bag; some people who can't afford a car, others who prefer it for traffic and parking advantages.
Whenever I visit India, it's astonishing to me the number of risks drivers (of cars, 2-wheelers and trucks alike) take with their own and other people's lives for very little gain. The concept of a lane is alien to most drivers, motorbikes speed like crazy and weave in and out of traffic (even I used to do it when I was younger and didn't know any better), no one ever yields to pedestrians, traffic signals don't work or aren't followed unless there's a cop standing there. I could go on and on.
Lest you think I'm a total wuss, I love cycling in the US and it's my preferred mode of transportation for trips under 10 km. I've done plenty of cycling and motorbike riding in India also. But I would not dare ride a 2-wheeler on public roads in India on a consistent basis anymore. At least not until our driver training, licensing, testing, and enforcement regime becomes much stricter than it currently is.
I'm in Bangalore. And it's unsafe af. The millions who do it in India are forced by poverty, otherwise they'd love to drive cars.
I don't care who rides what on a street. What I do care about is people riding them on small narrow paths made for cycling at best speeds, at 24-28 mph. As someone who raced for 10+ years and still rides 120ish miles a week, I don't even ride that fast around bike paths. It's just too dangerous with joggers, strollers, kids on bikes, whatever. When I see e-bikes zip past, I don't get jealous... I get pissed off. I can drop into my small cogs and ride that fast too - I just don't because it's dangerous.
And on trails, I'm sorry - I hold the stance that you can just go find a motocross trail. Mountain bikers put too much effort for too many years into getting what few trails we have built, and inexperienced people on motorcycles do nothing for keeping those trails.
So, if you want it to replace your car, then great, have it. Whether you just want to be eco-minded or got yourself a DUI - I don't care, have fun. But stop trying to use it in places we've fought to get for bicycles.
edit: gender.