Sprig is shutting down(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Sprig is shutting down
https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/26/on-demand-food-startup-sprig-is-shutting-down-today/
106 comments
I would guess any restaurant funded out of the gates with this amount of VC would fail. Call it a food-tech startup if you want, but Sprig and its competitors are restaurants. The reality of restaurants is that their growth is linear, even if they are successful. That's because it takes time to develop trust with the consumer, and even once that is established, people either want variety or their trust can be shattered completely on one off experience. Deploying this much capital on a restaurant concept straight out of the gates would be fine if and only if they managed to execute flawlessly and if VCs were ok not making money for a few years and then churning out 0-15% returns after that. But that's not the VC game.
You look at it as a restaurant problem but it's really an ecommerce supply chain problem.
By implying restaurant you're still thinking about back of the house and front of the house. That paradigm doesn't exist for the likes of SpoonRocket or Munchery or Sprig.
They operate out of commercial commissary kitchens that produces products that needs to go into a distribution network to people funneled in from marketing. The bet is that function isn't linear, rather it can be scaled up, especially when prodded along by all the state of art and best practices in ecommerce marketing techniques.
These guys were trying to play the Amazon game, but instead of a 2 day shipping window, it's right now or in a few hours. And instead of a shipping hub to your door steps, it's down the street to your doorsteps. And instead of elastic goods that can wait for awhile before you commit to buy it's a need to satisfy.
A successful restaurant feeds your craving. A successful supply chain fulfills your need.
The real challenge is just the fact at the end of the day there's a fixed cost to fulfillment no one can figure out how to shake.
Despite all the twisting in the labor relationship (avoiding W2s or stealing wages), it still costs $15/hr to deliver up to four $10 items that costs $3 to make. Until that goes down (with automated tincans on wheels) then merely sale of food items won't support these bets.
Except weed and alcohol. Those are the only things that have the margins and demand to support an immediate delivery network.
By implying restaurant you're still thinking about back of the house and front of the house. That paradigm doesn't exist for the likes of SpoonRocket or Munchery or Sprig.
They operate out of commercial commissary kitchens that produces products that needs to go into a distribution network to people funneled in from marketing. The bet is that function isn't linear, rather it can be scaled up, especially when prodded along by all the state of art and best practices in ecommerce marketing techniques.
These guys were trying to play the Amazon game, but instead of a 2 day shipping window, it's right now or in a few hours. And instead of a shipping hub to your door steps, it's down the street to your doorsteps. And instead of elastic goods that can wait for awhile before you commit to buy it's a need to satisfy.
A successful restaurant feeds your craving. A successful supply chain fulfills your need.
The real challenge is just the fact at the end of the day there's a fixed cost to fulfillment no one can figure out how to shake.
Despite all the twisting in the labor relationship (avoiding W2s or stealing wages), it still costs $15/hr to deliver up to four $10 items that costs $3 to make. Until that goes down (with automated tincans on wheels) then merely sale of food items won't support these bets.
Except weed and alcohol. Those are the only things that have the margins and demand to support an immediate delivery network.
Being a delivery-only restaurant isn't trying to "play the Amazon game" - it's trying to be a restaurant that only delivers.
OP is right here that the substitute good for Sprig was ordering delivery from a restaurant. Typically when you think about ordering delivery, you instantly start thinking about your favorites, meaning this industry is hard to scale because it requires building trust.
Weed and alcohol may have monopolistic characteristics brought on by strict licensing requirements, but people typically don't consume these on a daily basis so the lower delivery quantities negate the higher margins.
OP is right here that the substitute good for Sprig was ordering delivery from a restaurant. Typically when you think about ordering delivery, you instantly start thinking about your favorites, meaning this industry is hard to scale because it requires building trust.
Weed and alcohol may have monopolistic characteristics brought on by strict licensing requirements, but people typically don't consume these on a daily basis so the lower delivery quantities negate the higher margins.
[deleted]
in the UK a few restaurants are experimenting with this and years a go one of my local Indian restaurants also had a take away only kitchen.
What even is a delivery-only restaurant? A restaurant is literally defined as a place you go to eat and pay. A fine dining experience is composed of front of house and a back of house.
So Sprig is not a place you go to eat. There is no front of house experience. It's a thing that makes something to deliver to you. That's a fulfillment service.
Here's something to think about, most restaurants don't offer take out or delivery services. Because it undermines their value. They want you to sit down and enjoy in their decor, talking to their staff, eating their food, and most importantly they want exacting control and consistency. That indeed is how you build up trust and repeat visit.
But you're also conflating two behaviors here.
When you think about ordering delivery it's because you're trying to satiate a craving. You want that one thing form that one place. Delivery is an augmented service to the restaurant. It's how DoorDash can exist. But it's also why In 'N Out Burgers sued to not have their food be delivered. And it's also why the bottom half of the DoorDash's platform are not good experiences, it's a restaurant being pulled to be something it's not.
But that's not what Sprig is. They don't offer the same thing every day, they are relying on you to trust the top level branding alone and by browsing the options. It's a production facility with a delivery network.
When you want to your favorite meal delivered and when you want to order from Sprig or SpoonRocket or Munchery are coming from two different places. The former is hacking a restaurant, the latter is purchasing products.
Then lastly, it's not about licensing requirements for weed and alcohol. It's that they're inherently different products whereby immediate fulfillment is possible aside from transporting a human being.
So Sprig is not a place you go to eat. There is no front of house experience. It's a thing that makes something to deliver to you. That's a fulfillment service.
Here's something to think about, most restaurants don't offer take out or delivery services. Because it undermines their value. They want you to sit down and enjoy in their decor, talking to their staff, eating their food, and most importantly they want exacting control and consistency. That indeed is how you build up trust and repeat visit.
But you're also conflating two behaviors here.
When you think about ordering delivery it's because you're trying to satiate a craving. You want that one thing form that one place. Delivery is an augmented service to the restaurant. It's how DoorDash can exist. But it's also why In 'N Out Burgers sued to not have their food be delivered. And it's also why the bottom half of the DoorDash's platform are not good experiences, it's a restaurant being pulled to be something it's not.
But that's not what Sprig is. They don't offer the same thing every day, they are relying on you to trust the top level branding alone and by browsing the options. It's a production facility with a delivery network.
When you want to your favorite meal delivered and when you want to order from Sprig or SpoonRocket or Munchery are coming from two different places. The former is hacking a restaurant, the latter is purchasing products.
Then lastly, it's not about licensing requirements for weed and alcohol. It's that they're inherently different products whereby immediate fulfillment is possible aside from transporting a human being.
> What even is a delivery-only restaurant?
90% of pizza joints. Yes, they may have seating area, but it's greasy, uncomfortable, and small. The overwhelming majority of their business is take-out, and delivery.
Every single hole-in-the-wall place. They either deliver, or they get you to pick up your own food.
Food trucks.
Having no front isn't some amazing innovation that will afford you margins that VCs and computer programmers expect.
Yes, optimizing your logistics and supply chain in the restaurant business is a huge problem. It's also a problem that successful restaurants, by necessity, are already really good at solving. You're not going to squeeze much blood out of that rock.
90% of pizza joints. Yes, they may have seating area, but it's greasy, uncomfortable, and small. The overwhelming majority of their business is take-out, and delivery.
Every single hole-in-the-wall place. They either deliver, or they get you to pick up your own food.
Food trucks.
Having no front isn't some amazing innovation that will afford you margins that VCs and computer programmers expect.
Yes, optimizing your logistics and supply chain in the restaurant business is a huge problem. It's also a problem that successful restaurants, by necessity, are already really good at solving. You're not going to squeeze much blood out of that rock.
This is the reason it will be very difficult for anything like the Sprig concept. Food delivery is insanely competitive and it's a race to the bottom to see who can stay in business on the smallest margin. That's usually the place that operates out of a low-rent storefront and employs family members at below-minimum wage, not a glitzy well-funded commissary with acres of stainless steel and new equipment.
Restaurants and other food-related businesses tend to have an extraordinarily high rate of failure. They're really hard to sustain long-term. So the fact that a food business failed is not remarkable; that's the usual, expected outcome.
And 100k/yr developers. I never understood the excitement around food delivery start-ups. There's nothing like broiling a nice steak with onions. It's like Americans have forgotten how to cook.
>what is a delivery only restaurant?
Some restaurants don't have any seating area. Think Dominos Pizza.
>When you think about ordering delivery it's because you're trying to satiate a craving.
Or you just don't feel like cooking. Also you might want anything random - something different you don't dislike. And you don't feel like walking to a restaurant and sitting there alone waiting for food + paying tips etc.
Sprig/SpoonRocket/Munchery/doordash/Grubhub/Eat24/localpizzashop.com/any local place that is walkable distance and offers takeout are effectively direct competitors for me.
Some restaurants don't have any seating area. Think Dominos Pizza.
>When you think about ordering delivery it's because you're trying to satiate a craving.
Or you just don't feel like cooking. Also you might want anything random - something different you don't dislike. And you don't feel like walking to a restaurant and sitting there alone waiting for food + paying tips etc.
Sprig/SpoonRocket/Munchery/doordash/Grubhub/Eat24/localpizzashop.com/any local place that is walkable distance and offers takeout are effectively direct competitors for me.
The definition of a restaurant is "a building where people go to eat", if you can't eat there, it's not a restaurant…
Are we really going to start splitting hairs about "delivery place" vs "takeout" vs "restaurant"? It's clear what the OP is talking about; cooking food and delivering it is not a novel concept.
On the other hand, the article says they started "experimenting" with serving food to walk-in customers at their kitchen. Which would mean at some point near the end they became a restaurant by the definition you are using.
> with automated tincans on wheels
I think this was the most insightful part of your comment. When cars are self-driving, there's no reason they'll look like cars any more. There will be people-carriers, but they won't be the only vehicles on the road when they don't have to carry people any more.
Instead, what about small cargo carriers, like bike messengers without the bike? Imagine basically coolers on wheels, zipping along with cars. Why have a full-blown car or motorcycle when you can have a tin can on wheels deliver stuff?
I think this was the most insightful part of your comment. When cars are self-driving, there's no reason they'll look like cars any more. There will be people-carriers, but they won't be the only vehicles on the road when they don't have to carry people any more.
Instead, what about small cargo carriers, like bike messengers without the bike? Imagine basically coolers on wheels, zipping along with cars. Why have a full-blown car or motorcycle when you can have a tin can on wheels deliver stuff?
> Why have a full-blown car or motorcycle when you can have a tin can on wheels deliver stuff?
For one reason, to prevent people from stealing the goods. I used to deliver pizza. It was pretty much a given in certain areas that if I was not very careful about locking my car that I'd get pizzas stolen out of it while I was parked making a delivery.
A self-driving igloo cooler is just going to get kicked over and emptied.
For one reason, to prevent people from stealing the goods. I used to deliver pizza. It was pretty much a given in certain areas that if I was not very careful about locking my car that I'd get pizzas stolen out of it while I was parked making a delivery.
A self-driving igloo cooler is just going to get kicked over and emptied.
Those are here in silicon valley already.
Really? What do they look like?
An igloo cooler on wheels, more or less. They are sized for sidewalk travel, not street.
[edit] Here's a brief video that shows what they look like.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/21/robots-are-now-deliving-food-...
[edit] Here's a brief video that shows what they look like.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/21/robots-are-now-deliving-food-...
Huh, that looks very interesting, thanks. For some reason, I keep thinking those robots look like they're one wrong turn away from being dismantled by thieves in seconds...
I'm sure you're right. This other video claims it isn't a problem, but (simply my opinion here) it watches more like SV bubblethink than something based in reality. We'll eventually see, one way or the other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZwnc_Lk2M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZwnc_Lk2M
it still costs $15/hr to deliver up to four $10 items that costs $3 to make
It seems like Sprig should have had a major advantage over delivery restaurants though - they didn't have to travel back and forth to the restaurant. With a fixed menu of a few non-heated items, they (presumably) loaded the truck with enough to satisfy the demands of the day and then their only problem is Traveling Salesman.
I don't understand why this isn't a killer model. Delivery restaurants make a living, right?
I'm inclined to believe that the parent comment is right, that the expectations were just too great. Even if the food delivery business was much more profitable than the average restaurant, they still had to support a very expensive VC-built technology team.
Also, I just wasn't that excited about the food. I ordered from Sprig a few times; it was just sandwiches and salads. You can get those within about 50 yards from any office downtown. I'm guessing that delivery restaurants make a living because their food is compelling enough that people are willing to wait an hour. Maybe remarkable food doesn't keep all day on a truck?
It seems like Sprig should have had a major advantage over delivery restaurants though - they didn't have to travel back and forth to the restaurant. With a fixed menu of a few non-heated items, they (presumably) loaded the truck with enough to satisfy the demands of the day and then their only problem is Traveling Salesman.
I don't understand why this isn't a killer model. Delivery restaurants make a living, right?
I'm inclined to believe that the parent comment is right, that the expectations were just too great. Even if the food delivery business was much more profitable than the average restaurant, they still had to support a very expensive VC-built technology team.
Also, I just wasn't that excited about the food. I ordered from Sprig a few times; it was just sandwiches and salads. You can get those within about 50 yards from any office downtown. I'm guessing that delivery restaurants make a living because their food is compelling enough that people are willing to wait an hour. Maybe remarkable food doesn't keep all day on a truck?
I find it hard to believe that having to occasionally return to the restaurant to pick up more orders represents such a large percentage of a restaurant's cost.
The cost of the delivery driver is amortized across the total number of deliveries the driver makes. If you can double the number of deliveries, you've halved the cost of delivery.
Having to return to a fixed point every 3rd or 4th delivery seems like it would add up.
Having to return to a fixed point every 3rd or 4th delivery seems like it would add up.
You're assuming the delivery driver can be kept busy throughout the entire shift. I doubt there's many places where a driver could do a single pickup and then be kept busy for 6-8 hours straight.
Can you actually double it? I am not so sure. Even if you could, what percentage of cost does that actually represent?
We do see a lot of success with alcohol and cannabis delivery services here at Onfleet. "The vices" have high enough margin to support this model. Food delivery can also work, but razor thin margins so to make the food and operate the network is tricky.
Weed and alcohol don't expire in the same way, and all the work making it is already done.
It's ok to think of Sprig as a restaurant that delivers. The most profitable restaurant chains in the world make $2-3M per store, with repeatable success in new stores (with obvious much better than 0-15% returns).
You're finding the optimal solution for two problems: making food and delivering food. For making food, along with recipes and process, having great technology allows you to reduce cost and improve customer LTV by:
* Reducing wasted ingredients and spoiled items by predicting demand and tracking your production line
* Identify which meals get people to come back
* Optimize for pricing, similar to website conversion
For delivering food, having great technology allows you to improve delivery speed and reduce delivery cost.
Yes, at the end of the day Sprig competes with any restaurant that delivers in the same way that Warby Parker competes with any eyeglass brand / store (obvious difference being the better margins in the eyeglass industry). However if you can get really good at using technology to optimize your production production and distribution, your advantage is your profit margin and your ability to deploy growth capital efficiently.
Final point -- VCs are ok not making money for a few years. In fact, they HAVE to be ok not making money for 7-10 years. That's the whole point of venture capital.
You're finding the optimal solution for two problems: making food and delivering food. For making food, along with recipes and process, having great technology allows you to reduce cost and improve customer LTV by:
* Reducing wasted ingredients and spoiled items by predicting demand and tracking your production line
* Identify which meals get people to come back
* Optimize for pricing, similar to website conversion
For delivering food, having great technology allows you to improve delivery speed and reduce delivery cost.
Yes, at the end of the day Sprig competes with any restaurant that delivers in the same way that Warby Parker competes with any eyeglass brand / store (obvious difference being the better margins in the eyeglass industry). However if you can get really good at using technology to optimize your production production and distribution, your advantage is your profit margin and your ability to deploy growth capital efficiently.
Final point -- VCs are ok not making money for a few years. In fact, they HAVE to be ok not making money for 7-10 years. That's the whole point of venture capital.
Even an established chef, David Chang (of Momofuku fame here in NYC), tried something similar with a startup called Maple. Raised millions. Shut down a few weeks ago for similar reasons.
He has framed himself as simply an investor in Maple as of late, but he's trying again with Ando. The food is very good and delivery is handled by Uber Rush couriers.
100 years ago, every family prepared their own Tomato Ketchup from scratch, 50 years ago every family prepared their own Cookie dough from Scratch. We are evolving to higher level abstraction in Food consumption, following is my view where we will be by 2025 .
Here is my Vision (Comprehensive thought process) on the UNIT Economics of Food delivery, how this will manifest by the year 2025 .
Pre-requisites:
a) Massively centralized, highly Automated Kitchens : can prepare 10,000 meals/hour
b) offer quality Meals at $4/meal with delivery ( with Self driving fleet starting year 2022 )
c) Monthly meals plan : a family will buy pre-paid 60 meals/month plan, USE it or LOSE it in a month.
Here are the Plan details.
1. If we take avg. family size as 3 people in US, a family consumes 2 meals/day X 30 days X 3 people = 180 meals/month for family of 3 people
2. for family of 3 grocery bill is say $540/month, that give s Raw material cost as $3 per meal
3. Meal preparation + Cleaning dishes etc.. takes about 1.5 hours/meal that is 3 hours/day for two meals a day for a family
4. If massive Centralized Kitchens ( like the Amazon Robot handling warehouses) can offer meals at $4 per meal ,people hook on to on REGULAR basis.
5. For this massive centralized Kitchens in order offer at at these low $4/meal, they need 'Commitment of minimum number of meals per month' from a family. I would say 60 meals/month
6. Basically this 60 meals/month minimum for $4/meal is like pre-paid PLAN, it is USE it or LOSE it in a month.
7. With the Mobile phone app, you set your Default Delivery place, if any thing change, you change Delivery location 2 hours in advance, your meal will be delivered to that place. ( with self driving fleet that should not be a problem)
8. These Centralized Kitchens Offer all Kinds of meals: Chinese, Japanese, Thai, American fastfood etc..
9. When you have these economy of scale where each family Order their food 1/3 of total meals in a Month, and it is offered almost same price as your Grocery Bill to prepare those meals ( with out 3 hours/day preparing meals /Cleaning dishes) , This MODEL will be successful
Here is my Vision (Comprehensive thought process) on the UNIT Economics of Food delivery, how this will manifest by the year 2025 .
Pre-requisites:
a) Massively centralized, highly Automated Kitchens : can prepare 10,000 meals/hour
b) offer quality Meals at $4/meal with delivery ( with Self driving fleet starting year 2022 )
c) Monthly meals plan : a family will buy pre-paid 60 meals/month plan, USE it or LOSE it in a month.
Here are the Plan details.
1. If we take avg. family size as 3 people in US, a family consumes 2 meals/day X 30 days X 3 people = 180 meals/month for family of 3 people
2. for family of 3 grocery bill is say $540/month, that give s Raw material cost as $3 per meal
3. Meal preparation + Cleaning dishes etc.. takes about 1.5 hours/meal that is 3 hours/day for two meals a day for a family
4. If massive Centralized Kitchens ( like the Amazon Robot handling warehouses) can offer meals at $4 per meal ,people hook on to on REGULAR basis.
5. For this massive centralized Kitchens in order offer at at these low $4/meal, they need 'Commitment of minimum number of meals per month' from a family. I would say 60 meals/month
6. Basically this 60 meals/month minimum for $4/meal is like pre-paid PLAN, it is USE it or LOSE it in a month.
7. With the Mobile phone app, you set your Default Delivery place, if any thing change, you change Delivery location 2 hours in advance, your meal will be delivered to that place. ( with self driving fleet that should not be a problem)
8. These Centralized Kitchens Offer all Kinds of meals: Chinese, Japanese, Thai, American fastfood etc..
9. When you have these economy of scale where each family Order their food 1/3 of total meals in a Month, and it is offered almost same price as your Grocery Bill to prepare those meals ( with out 3 hours/day preparing meals /Cleaning dishes) , This MODEL will be successful
3 hours for the prep and cleanup for 2 meals is quite a bit longer than our experience as a family of 4. Breakfast and lunch prep/cleanup is closer to 15 minutes than 90 and dinner prep/cleanup might be 30-60 for most meals.
Breakfast and lunch also seem less amenable to delivery as they're often eaten "on a schedule" with little room for screwups or delays.
I agree that delivery has a place; I'm not so sure it's going to be from a centralized location/coordinated kitchens. That central location is unlikely to be experts at sushi, Vietnamese, pizza, subs, have the fries I love, Thai, etc.
Breakfast and lunch also seem less amenable to delivery as they're often eaten "on a schedule" with little room for screwups or delays.
I agree that delivery has a place; I'm not so sure it's going to be from a centralized location/coordinated kitchens. That central location is unlikely to be experts at sushi, Vietnamese, pizza, subs, have the fries I love, Thai, etc.
People consume food predominately (70% of total meals in a month)based on ethnic lines and local customs why because that is how their Mom cooked first 15 years of their childhood and their taste buds were developed that way.
If you take a two month window,120 meals (2 meals X 60 days) , 90 meals that is 75% consists repeats from a group of 20 different food dishes .
Let us assume, you are living in typical US city where the population is 30,000 people. There may be 10 different categories of people BASED on their 'food preferences'.
When you combine this 10 different category groups with the above '20 different food dishes repeat' combine this with pre-paid Monthly plan and Centralized Kitchens, you have a quality food at close to GROCERY price bill .
Once the above AGGREGATION happens, It is not hard to have a sushi, Pizza, Thai, Chinese etc.. all under same roof Centralized Kitchen because the kitchen will be serving on a given day serving 1000 Pizza, 1000 Thai, 1000 Sushi, 1000 Subs etc.. for 30,000 population city .
If you take a two month window,120 meals (2 meals X 60 days) , 90 meals that is 75% consists repeats from a group of 20 different food dishes .
Let us assume, you are living in typical US city where the population is 30,000 people. There may be 10 different categories of people BASED on their 'food preferences'.
When you combine this 10 different category groups with the above '20 different food dishes repeat' combine this with pre-paid Monthly plan and Centralized Kitchens, you have a quality food at close to GROCERY price bill .
Once the above AGGREGATION happens, It is not hard to have a sushi, Pizza, Thai, Chinese etc.. all under same roof Centralized Kitchen because the kitchen will be serving on a given day serving 1000 Pizza, 1000 Thai, 1000 Sushi, 1000 Subs etc.. for 30,000 population city .
I think delivery could be solved today:
I assume we use chilled meals(which you reheat at home. can taste great), which last for 2-3 days - so let's say you need to delivery 2-3 times a week, and you delivery meals for the whole family. That's a lot of meals per delivery. Certainly helps the economics.
Now if as a requirement for delivery you would need to install a smart lock[1] on the trunk of your car(that the delivery guy can have the right access to), and a cooling box(maybe one that includes something like ice packets or similar passive temp. regulation tech), and the delivery guy will just drop the food there - this will be really helpful, because it shift delivery to the middle class from suburbs to somewhere near their work, which means much higher route density(deliveries per hour).
So i kind of think the technology part of cheap deliveries is solvable. But it all depends on the marketing part, and changing habits isn't that easy. And that previous plan requires a lot of interlocking parts together. hard.
So maybe a good way to do this is offering delivery for businesses(good delivery economics). Get people used to that. Get commercial kitchens offering great and cheap food based on that. That's what Amazon is doing.
And than, some commercial kitchen will start easy, with an offer of chilled meals for your home(for offices that already get deliveries). They will delivery to your office, you'll put in a cooling-box in office, and take it to your car at the end of the day.
And on top of that, you get a smart lock, or discounts for plans like you mention, or maybe discounts for group plans, etc.
[1]This of course would be a great help to e-commerce in general.
I assume we use chilled meals(which you reheat at home. can taste great), which last for 2-3 days - so let's say you need to delivery 2-3 times a week, and you delivery meals for the whole family. That's a lot of meals per delivery. Certainly helps the economics.
Now if as a requirement for delivery you would need to install a smart lock[1] on the trunk of your car(that the delivery guy can have the right access to), and a cooling box(maybe one that includes something like ice packets or similar passive temp. regulation tech), and the delivery guy will just drop the food there - this will be really helpful, because it shift delivery to the middle class from suburbs to somewhere near their work, which means much higher route density(deliveries per hour).
So i kind of think the technology part of cheap deliveries is solvable. But it all depends on the marketing part, and changing habits isn't that easy. And that previous plan requires a lot of interlocking parts together. hard.
So maybe a good way to do this is offering delivery for businesses(good delivery economics). Get people used to that. Get commercial kitchens offering great and cheap food based on that. That's what Amazon is doing.
And than, some commercial kitchen will start easy, with an offer of chilled meals for your home(for offices that already get deliveries). They will delivery to your office, you'll put in a cooling-box in office, and take it to your car at the end of the day.
And on top of that, you get a smart lock, or discounts for plans like you mention, or maybe discounts for group plans, etc.
[1]This of course would be a great help to e-commerce in general.
If you're just reheating a cold meal why am I going to pay you to do so and deliver it instead of buying one at the grocery store instead? I also own a microwave, a freezer, and an oven.
There's a difference between chilled meals(which last 3 days), and frozen meals(which you find in the supermarket). Munchery sold chilled meals, and at least according to reviews/media, they we're quite good.
They sell chilled meals at the supermarket too.
Biggest problem with food tech is (IMO) the low barrier to entry. You can offer food at 4$ rates but so will your competitors (eventually atleast).
> These Centralized Kitchens Offer all Kinds of meals: Chinese, Japanese, Thai, American fastfood etc..
Easy to say, much much harder to implement, specially accounting for personal preferences( extra tomatoes, less/more spicy etc.
That said, there is definitely a huge market opportunity here. A slightly easier approach, I've often thought about, is starting off with a single kitchen where the food is cooked, selling it in high density areas (subway/bus station) via kiosks and vendors. You can do quality control and build your brand. Eventually, you could go after this monthly meal option.
An even bigger opportunity could lie in the logistics space (Transporting the food from cooking location to destination).
This might also be interesting: 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxW9sUnodM8
> These Centralized Kitchens Offer all Kinds of meals: Chinese, Japanese, Thai, American fastfood etc..
Easy to say, much much harder to implement, specially accounting for personal preferences( extra tomatoes, less/more spicy etc.
That said, there is definitely a huge market opportunity here. A slightly easier approach, I've often thought about, is starting off with a single kitchen where the food is cooked, selling it in high density areas (subway/bus station) via kiosks and vendors. You can do quality control and build your brand. Eventually, you could go after this monthly meal option.
An even bigger opportunity could lie in the logistics space (Transporting the food from cooking location to destination).
This might also be interesting: 1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabbawala 2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxW9sUnodM8
>Easy to say, much much harder to implement, specially accounting for personal preferences( extra tomatoes, less/more spicy etc.
200 years ago, when every family is making their own tomato Ketchup, I am sure there must be 5000 very little variations of ketchup in USA. fast forward to today there are only 57 and all this is done by one company with couple of centralized locations and People who are used to those 5000 varieties confirmed to 57 varieties .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_57
When you consolidate and aggregate EACH of the food dish we eat will be consolidate into only 5 different variations. These centralized kitchens can handle 5 different variants ( Chinese Orange Chicken for example) and prepare 200 meals of each variety ( of total 1000 meals of Orange Chicken )
I have given an detailed answer on this issue in this thread, please search with following text.
Once the above AGGREGATION happens, It is not hard to have a sushi, Pizza, Thai, Chinese etc.. all under same roof Centralized Kitchen because the kitchen will be serving on a given day serving 1000 Pizza, 1000 Thai, 1000 Sushi, 1000 Subs etc.. for 30,000 population city
200 years ago, when every family is making their own tomato Ketchup, I am sure there must be 5000 very little variations of ketchup in USA. fast forward to today there are only 57 and all this is done by one company with couple of centralized locations and People who are used to those 5000 varieties confirmed to 57 varieties .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinz_57
When you consolidate and aggregate EACH of the food dish we eat will be consolidate into only 5 different variations. These centralized kitchens can handle 5 different variants ( Chinese Orange Chicken for example) and prepare 200 meals of each variety ( of total 1000 meals of Orange Chicken )
I have given an detailed answer on this issue in this thread, please search with following text.
Once the above AGGREGATION happens, It is not hard to have a sushi, Pizza, Thai, Chinese etc.. all under same roof Centralized Kitchen because the kitchen will be serving on a given day serving 1000 Pizza, 1000 Thai, 1000 Sushi, 1000 Subs etc.. for 30,000 population city
I commute to work along an industrial road with a number of interesting warehouse buildings along it. There are catering suppliers you've never heard of for various different ethnic foods. Behind many cheap takeaway restaurants, there's an industrial supply chain for sauces and other basic ingredients; the centralised kitchens already exist.
Of course final prep happens on a more local site, but that makes sense - hot food doesn't travel well, which is the main limit on delivery, not time or cost - the buyer could always pay more, but they'll be getting an increasingly overcooked or tepid meal.
Of course final prep happens on a more local site, but that makes sense - hot food doesn't travel well, which is the main limit on delivery, not time or cost - the buyer could always pay more, but they'll be getting an increasingly overcooked or tepid meal.
not sure many people would be happy with eating 100% microwaved tv diners - not sure its particularly healthy either
How do you explain "The Melt" (a VC-funded chain of melted cheese sandwich shops)?
Honestly, not surprising! The unit economics of services like Sprig (and, to a lesser extent, DoorDash) are horrifyingly bad. If you've ever thought about starting a delivery service, this is a worthwhile read. They predicted Sprig's demise last year: https://medium.com/@review/the-food-delivery-death-star-85f9...
It is a good read, thanks for sharing.
From: xxxx
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2016 3:03 PM
To: 'xxx' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Introducing Myself and $20 from Sprig
Hi Billy,
The problem with Sprig is price. A normal lunch costs $9-10, while Sprig’s lunch with all fees is $17.
Thanks
xxx.
From: xxxx [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:08 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Introducing Myself and $20 from Sprig
Hey there -
I wanted to reach out and introduce myself. My name is Billy Blaustein and I'm acting as the new Manager of Sprig here in San Francisco. I'm a Bay Area native that cares deeply about healthy accessible eating.
I'm reaching out now because I know that used to be a big fan of Sprig, but for some reason we haven't had you order from us in the past few months.
We've done an amazing amount of work at Sprig rebuilding our app, rebuilding our menu, and trying to build a great brand for busy San Franciscans. I can personally attest that a lot of our food is completely redone.
I've put $20 of Sprig credit into your account that you can use through February. I'd love to hear from you about your experience.
I apologize for emailing, but this is a personal outreach from my personal account.
Looking forward to hearing from you - BB
Hi Billy,
The problem with Sprig is price. A normal lunch costs $9-10, while Sprig’s lunch with all fees is $17.
Thanks
xxx.
From: xxxx [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:08 PM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Introducing Myself and $20 from Sprig
Hey there -
I wanted to reach out and introduce myself. My name is Billy Blaustein and I'm acting as the new Manager of Sprig here in San Francisco. I'm a Bay Area native that cares deeply about healthy accessible eating.
I'm reaching out now because I know that used to be a big fan of Sprig, but for some reason we haven't had you order from us in the past few months.
We've done an amazing amount of work at Sprig rebuilding our app, rebuilding our menu, and trying to build a great brand for busy San Franciscans. I can personally attest that a lot of our food is completely redone.
I've put $20 of Sprig credit into your account that you can use through February. I'd love to hear from you about your experience.
I apologize for emailing, but this is a personal outreach from my personal account.
Looking forward to hearing from you - BB
Do people sending these messages ever read them back back to themselves aloud?
Please, at least write something that isn't from the same template as every other unsolicited email I get about <random> online service.
Please, at least write something that isn't from the same template as every other unsolicited email I get about <random> online service.
Yeah. Although personally, I think that it's still not as bad as the "James from FoobarSaaS" for the technical products (you know, CI, etc).
It was new and cool a few years ago, and maybe non-technical users find it more trustworthy, personal touch, whatever. But when you get this crap daily, it's just a bit silly. There's nothing personal about spam and I don't even know if the "James from FoobarSaaS" person actually exists (probably not).
It was new and cool a few years ago, and maybe non-technical users find it more trustworthy, personal touch, whatever. But when you get this crap daily, it's just a bit silly. There's nothing personal about spam and I don't even know if the "James from FoobarSaaS" person actually exists (probably not).
It wasn't $17 if you subscribed for $10/mo as I did. It was more like 11-13. For a meal that arrived within 15 minutes of ordering it, it rocked when I was coming home tired or from practice.
Unfortunately seemed like there were hints of this eventual demise when Gagan was interviewed by Jason Calacanis: http://thisweekinstartups.com/gagan-biyani-sprig/.
YC-backed SpoonRocket had just announced their shutdown, and Gagan was put on the defensive. Touting unit economics, an optimized menu, and food delivery innovation, the reality was, as others have mentioned, the company was a glorified restaurant with delivery. Ultimately I do think these companies made an impact but may have been a few years to early (pre self-driving). High-quality, healthy, on demand food is an inevitability but the labor costs are still prohibitive. I'm genuinely excited for the day I can get a delivered grilled, free-range chicken breast and seasonal veggies for $6!
YC-backed SpoonRocket had just announced their shutdown, and Gagan was put on the defensive. Touting unit economics, an optimized menu, and food delivery innovation, the reality was, as others have mentioned, the company was a glorified restaurant with delivery. Ultimately I do think these companies made an impact but may have been a few years to early (pre self-driving). High-quality, healthy, on demand food is an inevitability but the labor costs are still prohibitive. I'm genuinely excited for the day I can get a delivered grilled, free-range chicken breast and seasonal veggies for $6!
I'm not sure self driving vehicles will magically make food delivery profitable. Sure, self driving cars can bring the food to the front of my door or house, but how will the food get into my place? Maybe that's okay for a sandwich for one person, but a soon as we're talkang about a complete meal for two or more people, it becomes a completely different story.
Are people really willing to pay a premium delivery fee, only to have to carry the heavy or hot packages themselves into the house, elevator, appartement? In the rain, cold or snow? In the dark?
Self driving food delivery has a 'last mile' problem. Sure you can transport the food to my sidewalk that way, but how do you get it to or over my doorstep without ruining the whole convenience experience, in a sustainable and profitable way?
Are people really willing to pay a premium delivery fee, only to have to carry the heavy or hot packages themselves into the house, elevator, appartement? In the rain, cold or snow? In the dark?
Self driving food delivery has a 'last mile' problem. Sure you can transport the food to my sidewalk that way, but how do you get it to or over my doorstep without ruining the whole convenience experience, in a sustainable and profitable way?
Are you presuming they won't drop a robot in the self-driving car to bring you your food?
Yeah, something in that!!
This is sad because Sprig had just won me back.
There were the dark days of Sprig where, with limited options, it was mostly $13+ airplane food (pre fees, tax, tip etc.) - they literally hired a guy who led mass food production for airlines, and another bigwig from the cafeteria industry - and at that point I and others I know mercilessly bashed Sprig, and they deserved it.
Then one day I checked on them and they had greatly expanded their menu, brought in great partners like Dosa, Blue Bottle, Stumptown, and I then became a regular user (why not have Chicken Tikka Masala from Dosa, a kale-Avocado salad, and New Orleans style iced coffee brought to my door while I work). Still pricey but it's actually worth it now.
I get that their "dark days" were tied to financial desperation, but IMO from the view on the ground it did irreparable damage to their company once it got out they brought in airline and cafeteria people, and still had the audacity to charge a crap ton for it. Funnily I didn't even know they brought in airline people until I had a small, $14 crappy barbecue sandwich that I swore I had on an airplane once and lo and behold after a second of Googling it all made sense. This could all make for an interesting case study on critical strategy mistakes and failed brand management.
There were the dark days of Sprig where, with limited options, it was mostly $13+ airplane food (pre fees, tax, tip etc.) - they literally hired a guy who led mass food production for airlines, and another bigwig from the cafeteria industry - and at that point I and others I know mercilessly bashed Sprig, and they deserved it.
Then one day I checked on them and they had greatly expanded their menu, brought in great partners like Dosa, Blue Bottle, Stumptown, and I then became a regular user (why not have Chicken Tikka Masala from Dosa, a kale-Avocado salad, and New Orleans style iced coffee brought to my door while I work). Still pricey but it's actually worth it now.
I get that their "dark days" were tied to financial desperation, but IMO from the view on the ground it did irreparable damage to their company once it got out they brought in airline and cafeteria people, and still had the audacity to charge a crap ton for it. Funnily I didn't even know they brought in airline people until I had a small, $14 crappy barbecue sandwich that I swore I had on an airplane once and lo and behold after a second of Googling it all made sense. This could all make for an interesting case study on critical strategy mistakes and failed brand management.
"Sprig, the startup that makes and delivers its own food"
Know in plain language as a restaurant that delivers.
Know in plain language as a restaurant that delivers.
This is why I read start-up shutdown threads on HN.
Some outrageous percentage of small businesses fail within two years.
Restaurants are a big contributor to that statistic. Sprig was, essentially, a restaurant. Calling it a tough environment to operate in is an understatement.
Restaurants are a big contributor to that statistic. Sprig was, essentially, a restaurant. Calling it a tough environment to operate in is an understatement.
Doesn't surprise me. I tried them a few times and the food always seemed mediocre and uninspired.
Near the end of the company's life they switched from fully compostable packaging and utensils (wherever possible) to the standard array of plastic containers and utensils you'd expect from any restaurant, while keeping their price just as high.
Near the end of the company's life they switched from fully compostable packaging and utensils (wherever possible) to the standard array of plastic containers and utensils you'd expect from any restaurant, while keeping their price just as high.
Oh gosh. I tried it once in Chicago and it was pretty awful. Does not surprise me as well.
I've tried all of these delivery companies thanks to VC-subsidized promotions, and none of them get me a better meal than Costco's excellent frozen and refrigerated prepared foods (Sukhi's, Giovanni Rana, Ajinomoto, etc) which I keep stocked in my refrigerator and freezer and which are ready within 5 minutes of me deciding I want to eat one. The Costco food is quicker, cheaper, and tastier.
I think the problem with these cooked meal services is scale. It is very hard to scale these operations across multiple cities. The margins just aren't there for the layers of complexity and management. They are better off as small businesses, just like a restaurant franchise model.
I have used a couple of them in Kansas City over the last 5 years. Before this was even a craze. Success Meals and Healthy Meals. Both were fantastic and neither needed to raise $50 million dollars to do it.
I have used a couple of them in Kansas City over the last 5 years. Before this was even a craze. Success Meals and Healthy Meals. Both were fantastic and neither needed to raise $50 million dollars to do it.
For a while Sprig was very convenient. I paid the monthly flat fee for delivery for some months. But then it became very hard to get a meal from them:
- Meals would be sold out by noon
- You had a limit. You could order only 1 meal.
- The drink prices were ridiculous. Like $6 for a juice.
So because I could never get a meal, I canceled my subscription and started using other services.
- Meals would be sold out by noon
- You had a limit. You could order only 1 meal.
- The drink prices were ridiculous. Like $6 for a juice.
So because I could never get a meal, I canceled my subscription and started using other services.
Totally unrelated but if you're interested in expensive juice have you heard of the company Juicero?
In all seriousness, there's a service in Washington, DC called HighSpeed which will deliver to you a bottle of $55 freshly squeeze juice. Except they include a free gift of marijuana.
In all seriousness, there's a service in Washington, DC called HighSpeed which will deliver to you a bottle of $55 freshly squeeze juice. Except they include a free gift of marijuana.
Yes but having to order from 2 different companies, with food arriving at 2 different times seems a bit hard to deal with. Imagine this in the context of a lunch break.
"They cooked and delivered their own meals."
... Like Dominos?
... Like Dominos?
Here's the email sprig CEO Gagan Biyani sent out today:
https://pastebin.com/raw/9DPWQ4QC
https://pastebin.com/raw/9DPWQ4QC
Again, who? I really think a problem with any startup is marketing and getting the word out there. If any startup is able to raise some capital, surely they have some idea about how they're going to make money. I would really love to see the postmortem reports VC's do on failed startups to understand why it happened, and how to avoid in the future. This actually sounds like a great company. I wish I had heard of them ....
Who's next? Blue Apron?
Who's next? Blue Apron?
For Blue Apron, you cook + assemble the meals yourself which does not sound too different, but could be a huge advantage for cost (and quality standpoint vs you expect it prepared well and warm).
So, like -
Online grocery delivery that several nearby grocery stores with a healthy sustaining underlying core business probably already do, and probably for cheaper, or alternately, with call-in ordering if I prefer a lower delivery fee?
Oh.. but it has an 'app',
right.
Online grocery delivery that several nearby grocery stores with a healthy sustaining underlying core business probably already do, and probably for cheaper, or alternately, with call-in ordering if I prefer a lower delivery fee?
Oh.. but it has an 'app',
right.
Blue Apron comes with its own meal kit and instructions on how to make. It's almost like one of those DIY science experiment boxes, but for dinner. This makes it more appealing than the package of what a grocery store could offer. (Or selecting the individual ingredients one by one.)
I tried it and I'll never do it again. Huge waste of money.
I know some folks for whom it was the gateway drug to actually cooking for themselves, but it doesn't make a ton of sense once you've gotten past that. Parting things out of a Peapod order is not a big ask.
Ironically the recipes they gave me were more trouble than I'd normally bother with on a weeknight.
"Sprig, which had raised $56.7 million"...a lot of money to be on a company that including delivery costs probably had negative gross margins.
Blue Apron's model of delivering just ingredients has a big advantage that they don't have to cook food nor deliver quickly, and they probably charge around as much for a meal as Sprig did. Much more promising business model in theory...and one that's working great.
Blue Apron's model of delivering just ingredients has a big advantage that they don't have to cook food nor deliver quickly, and they probably charge around as much for a meal as Sprig did. Much more promising business model in theory...and one that's working great.
Low margin businesses like this with so many responsibilities won't work, unless you have limitless amounts of money. They simply can't compete on price, unless they can drop the price so low that it creates a new market, like Uber did.
Instead of $15 meals, they need to go up to $30 meals and have real waiters bring the food and serve it to them.
Margins are what you need to be able to survive.
Instead of $15 meals, they need to go up to $30 meals and have real waiters bring the food and serve it to them.
Margins are what you need to be able to survive.
> They simply can't compete on price, unless they can drop the price so low that it creates a new market, like Uber did.
and what other people are saying is at least in some markets somewhat of an illusion based on investment subsidies..
and what other people are saying is at least in some markets somewhat of an illusion based on investment subsidies..
> unless they can drop the price so low that it creates a new market, like Uber did.
I mean, sure, if you're willing to eat losses for years and years you can compete on price.
I mean, sure, if you're willing to eat losses for years and years you can compete on price.
"And another one bites the dust" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE)
Personally better/fancier food delivered sounds strange. I cook at home when i like good food or i go out and enjoy it outside.
Personally better/fancier food delivered sounds strange. I cook at home when i like good food or i go out and enjoy it outside.
I seem to be in the minority here, but I will honestly saw I'll miss Sprig. It was one of the few places I could not only order food that would arrive quickly, but most importantly (until their recent transition a month or two back), it was not only quite healthy, but they listed the nutrition facts up-front. I realize most people don't care, but as someone who was on a restricted diet (I'm diabetic) [hence the throwaway account], it was nice that I could know up-front what the food contained. I've yet to find another option that delivers decent quality food with nutrition facts up-front. The only reason I stopped using them was I invested time to start cooking my own food (with great health results, even if it takes up a few hours a week).
Anyone know of any similar services?
Anyone know of any similar services?
Ahh, this is a shame, but not surprising. Sprigs competitors have all fallen as well (Bento, Spoonrocket) for the same reasons.
I think there is a business that can be made with this model, as restaurant delivery does work, and the margins are improved nicely if you have roving delivery units with all the required deliverables (since you cut out half of the round-trip delivery time).
There was a pizza company (I've been unable to quickly google which one) that learned they could take a good deal more orders by sending out drivers with extra unordered pepperoni pizzas. When an order came in for a pepperoni pizza, they'd just relay it to a driver already on a delivery and have them make an extra stop. 2x deliveries for maybe 1.1x delivery distance.
Sprig, Bento, Spoonrocket, Presto Pizza, and all these other startups were trying to capture this market, but the problem is that demand is not consistent and slight mistakes in supply are onerously expensive. Too much food, and you've got spoilage; too little and you've lost a customer because of your 'Sold Out' message.
Additionally, the question of quality and variety is a difficult one to tackle. The pizza place that found success only had to carry pepperoni or cheese pizzas; Spoonrocket failed because it cheapened its product to try to increase the margin wiggle-room and lost customers; Bento failed because it couldn't offer much intraday variety.
Sprig was at least hopeful, in my eyes -- they managed to keep their meals at a higher standard than Spoonrocket. I was fine paying extra for it (although I admit that is subjective). The achilles heel is that if you want startup growth, then managing to keep your supply within the margins of profitability is a very difficult task. The only solutions are to grow a lot slower (and learn your demand) or to double-down DEEP on your datascience team and hope they can divine a line of best fit.
Unfortunately, that latter would likely need to be a Psychohistorian and those won't be around for another 10k years.
I think there is a business that can be made with this model, as restaurant delivery does work, and the margins are improved nicely if you have roving delivery units with all the required deliverables (since you cut out half of the round-trip delivery time).
There was a pizza company (I've been unable to quickly google which one) that learned they could take a good deal more orders by sending out drivers with extra unordered pepperoni pizzas. When an order came in for a pepperoni pizza, they'd just relay it to a driver already on a delivery and have them make an extra stop. 2x deliveries for maybe 1.1x delivery distance.
Sprig, Bento, Spoonrocket, Presto Pizza, and all these other startups were trying to capture this market, but the problem is that demand is not consistent and slight mistakes in supply are onerously expensive. Too much food, and you've got spoilage; too little and you've lost a customer because of your 'Sold Out' message.
Additionally, the question of quality and variety is a difficult one to tackle. The pizza place that found success only had to carry pepperoni or cheese pizzas; Spoonrocket failed because it cheapened its product to try to increase the margin wiggle-room and lost customers; Bento failed because it couldn't offer much intraday variety.
Sprig was at least hopeful, in my eyes -- they managed to keep their meals at a higher standard than Spoonrocket. I was fine paying extra for it (although I admit that is subjective). The achilles heel is that if you want startup growth, then managing to keep your supply within the margins of profitability is a very difficult task. The only solutions are to grow a lot slower (and learn your demand) or to double-down DEEP on your datascience team and hope they can divine a line of best fit.
Unfortunately, that latter would likely need to be a Psychohistorian and those won't be around for another 10k years.
data science teams aren't that magic. We can't fix a low margin business model
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I used Sunfare (www.sunfare.com) in Scottsdale, Arizona for almost 5 years before I moved to San Francisco. It's a similar model to all of these Bay Area restaurant + delivery startups, but they have never expanded outside of LA / AZ, never raised venture capital, and somehow manage to stay in business and turn a profit!
I love and miss them!
I love and miss them!
This was one of my favorite startups. :(
The article lists a bunch of companies in the space going down.
Thinking of the demand side, would a company rolled up into one, being able to claim a large slice of this nascent market for itself, have been able to survive and grow?
Thinking of the demand side, would a company rolled up into one, being able to claim a large slice of this nascent market for itself, have been able to survive and grow?
I did some back of the napkin calculations. The investors would have had much higher yield if they had invested in cinnabons and Acai Bowl style fast-casual shops.
Look at India to see a model that has scaled:
https://dailyfintech.com/2017/01/13/9062/
https://dailyfintech.com/2017/01/13/9062/
As a note, while the dabbawalas are successful, there was a comically excessive food-delivery startup bubble in India around 2015 full of companies that failed similarly.
It comes down to the basic issue, I think, that Uber made everyone worldwide excited about the idea of "software eating the world" but you can't wish away the issue of margins and unit costs.
It comes down to the basic issue, I think, that Uber made everyone worldwide excited about the idea of "software eating the world" but you can't wish away the issue of margins and unit costs.
It works because wages are lower. The delivery cost was much higher than food costs for sprig.
I was overjoyed for a moment, then I realized it's Sprig, not Spring.
I only clicked because I read "spring" other than "sprig"
Same. My mind went from "how da hell will people do java" to "oh I didn't even know this startup"
Me too, I hoped Spring Framework is shutting down.
I'm not sure the framework can just shut down if it's OSS:)
> {...} Sprig CEO Gagan Biyani wrote in an email customers will receive shortly.
From TC's wording it sounds like they obtained and published this email before it was sent. Maybe just incorrect choice of words; if not then that's pretty bold from TC and unprofessional IMO.
Italics mine.
From TC's wording it sounds like they obtained and published this email before it was sent. Maybe just incorrect choice of words; if not then that's pretty bold from TC and unprofessional IMO.
Italics mine.
This is called a "scoop", when a journalist reports something that is not known to the public before they would normally find out about it.
That's called journalism.
Potentially more insulting to real journalists than a Trump news conference.
The most important part of journalism is discovering and publishing news that people don't already know yet.
Wait, it's not acting as a stenographer for PR people?
tell me something I don't already know... ;)
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