Ask HN: What to do if my cofounder and I develop feelings for each other?
I'm male and my co-founder is female. In the beginning when we started, we were really good friends but never saw each other as a romantic interest. But now having shared many ups and downs together, we are beginning to develop feelings for one another. I like her, but I'm also worried that pursuing something romantic would not be good for the company. Have you ever gone through this experience and could share your thoughts?
36 comments
What's going to be more important on your deathbed: the success of your company or a love you shared with someone, for however long it lasts?
Edit: My wife is the cofounder of our life and family together, and I have yet to find a business opportunity that could ever compete with how she makes me feel.
Maintain perspective. Life is short. Maximize for happiness.
Edit: My wife is the cofounder of our life and family together, and I have yet to find a business opportunity that could ever compete with how she makes me feel.
Maintain perspective. Life is short. Maximize for happiness.
Key part is "however long it lasts" <- this is the deathbed.
Nothing lasts forever (of course, we want the good to last as long as possible and the bad to be as brief as possible).
Embrace the moment, the chaos, and the loss. It's the human condition.
Embrace the moment, the chaos, and the loss. It's the human condition.
However long it lasts, it will help you shape the kind of person you will become. Part of being human.
This exact situation happened to me. I founded a magazine with an amazing woman. In the beginning, we were just close friends, but as we went through ups and downs, our feelings for each other changed.
Like everything else, this kind of relationship has good and bad points.
The best thing was the degree of understanding. I've never been in a relationship with someone with such an incredibly innate understanding of my career. It was truly magical.
But, then there was the bad. Until you've been in this situation, you can't understand how deep the conflict of interest can get. Sometimes, co-founders need to have frank conversations about performance. When you're in a romantic relationship, frank feedback can create deep wounds. Then, in our case, once the magazine died, our relationship died too. The double whammy of a failed startup and failed relationship was unlike any other breakup I've ever experienced.
All that said, I'd do it again in a second. The relationship was so good while it lasted and Stacey is still one of my closest friends.
Like everything else, this kind of relationship has good and bad points.
The best thing was the degree of understanding. I've never been in a relationship with someone with such an incredibly innate understanding of my career. It was truly magical.
But, then there was the bad. Until you've been in this situation, you can't understand how deep the conflict of interest can get. Sometimes, co-founders need to have frank conversations about performance. When you're in a romantic relationship, frank feedback can create deep wounds. Then, in our case, once the magazine died, our relationship died too. The double whammy of a failed startup and failed relationship was unlike any other breakup I've ever experienced.
All that said, I'd do it again in a second. The relationship was so good while it lasted and Stacey is still one of my closest friends.
It's not uncommon for folks working very closely together to form emotional & romantic relationships. (Aside: raising kids is the ultimate startup, that's kind of why marriage exists).
First, make sure you have clear founder agreements, focusing on the case where one of the founders leaves (this usually implies vesting of some form). If you enter a relationship and then break up, the odds of one of you leaving at some point is increased.
Second, if you have investors, a board, and/or other key stockholders, you should consider disclosing a serious relationship (should it get to that point, for some definition of "serious").
Some will say, "it's none of their business!" but it kind of is. Most companies of any size have a policy on workplace relationships, and the minimum is usually that they must be disclosed. Even if you're too small for an HR department, the issues around potential conflicts are the same.
You never, ever, ever want to be in a situation where you date, break up, one departs, the company is compromised, and an irate investor later says, "you never told me!".
First, make sure you have clear founder agreements, focusing on the case where one of the founders leaves (this usually implies vesting of some form). If you enter a relationship and then break up, the odds of one of you leaving at some point is increased.
Second, if you have investors, a board, and/or other key stockholders, you should consider disclosing a serious relationship (should it get to that point, for some definition of "serious").
Some will say, "it's none of their business!" but it kind of is. Most companies of any size have a policy on workplace relationships, and the minimum is usually that they must be disclosed. Even if you're too small for an HR department, the issues around potential conflicts are the same.
You never, ever, ever want to be in a situation where you date, break up, one departs, the company is compromised, and an irate investor later says, "you never told me!".
A lot of people in in the comments seems to assume you'll get married. Which, while I wish you luck, may not be the case.
With that said, while I can't speak from experience, if you are equal founders I say go for it. If one of you is in a position of authority over the other it becomes much more tricky.
The only down side I can see is if you two break up and it gets messy. In which case, having a good board of directors that can be neutral and think about what is best for the company is important.
Edit: a little bit from personal experience though. If your startup hits a rough place and you need to sacrifice things like pay, it can be helpful when your significant other has a stable job. And if you both work for the same startup that is not an option. Money is what breaks up most relationships and if there is one thing startups are good at, it is creating money problems.
With that said, while I can't speak from experience, if you are equal founders I say go for it. If one of you is in a position of authority over the other it becomes much more tricky.
The only down side I can see is if you two break up and it gets messy. In which case, having a good board of directors that can be neutral and think about what is best for the company is important.
Edit: a little bit from personal experience though. If your startup hits a rough place and you need to sacrifice things like pay, it can be helpful when your significant other has a stable job. And if you both work for the same startup that is not an option. Money is what breaks up most relationships and if there is one thing startups are good at, it is creating money problems.
I would say that it would be dangerous to not want to get married to a cofounder. The company will bind the couple together, at least until acquisition.
A romantic/sexual fling can end very, very poorly, and such problems can carry over into the startup. Would someone be happy if he felt she used her and then dumped him for the next guy? If a cofounder marries some other guy later, would her husband be happy that she still sees her ex every day at the office?
At least with office romances, someone can change jobs if it gets too awkward.
A romantic/sexual fling can end very, very poorly, and such problems can carry over into the startup. Would someone be happy if he felt she used her and then dumped him for the next guy? If a cofounder marries some other guy later, would her husband be happy that she still sees her ex every day at the office?
At least with office romances, someone can change jobs if it gets too awkward.
Alternatively, cultivate a relationship that ascends beyond money. That's something worth cultivating?
The reason money ends relationships is because severe lack of money creates tremendous stress.
Overdue bills, not being unable to put food on the table, losing your house, ruining your credit score, not being able to afford your kid's college, not being able to afford medical care, etc.
Not to mention it helps cause or bring out depression. Which is a crippling mental condition that requires a lot of awareness and fortitude on behalf of the people around you (aka your significant other).
The kind of stuff people often commit suicide over. In fact, I'm shocked the suicide rate in startup founder's isn't higher. Never mind the divorce rate.
Now you can argue up and down that "all you need" to whether those things in life and a relationship is "strength." But not everyone can be strong all the time.
And it is even harder to be strong when, for example, one partner is the cause of most of the money troubles and you know leaving them would solve the problem for you. At some point the basic human instinct of self-preservation comes in.
Overdue bills, not being unable to put food on the table, losing your house, ruining your credit score, not being able to afford your kid's college, not being able to afford medical care, etc.
Not to mention it helps cause or bring out depression. Which is a crippling mental condition that requires a lot of awareness and fortitude on behalf of the people around you (aka your significant other).
The kind of stuff people often commit suicide over. In fact, I'm shocked the suicide rate in startup founder's isn't higher. Never mind the divorce rate.
Now you can argue up and down that "all you need" to whether those things in life and a relationship is "strength." But not everyone can be strong all the time.
And it is even harder to be strong when, for example, one partner is the cause of most of the money troubles and you know leaving them would solve the problem for you. At some point the basic human instinct of self-preservation comes in.
Like not eating and living under a bridge?
> I'm also worried that pursuing something romantic would not be good for the company.
Yes, it rarely ends well.
If you end up in a long term relationship or even get married, then the boundaries between work and home get blurred, and on top of that, if you have vested interests in the success of your work (which is your company) things could easily get out of control - clashing egos, 1 partner feeling the other is not doing enough at work, or at home, or both.
I've seen 2 of my close friends end up like that. Doesn't mean that's the norm, but things get ugly over a few years...
That doesn't mean you should not pursue the romantic relationship, just saying be cautious and don't over-commit too soon. Wait for the "honeymoon period" of the relationship (if you do end up moving forward) to pass and see how thinks look. In "normal" relationships, this period is usually anywhere from 6 months to a year or two...
Yes, it rarely ends well.
If you end up in a long term relationship or even get married, then the boundaries between work and home get blurred, and on top of that, if you have vested interests in the success of your work (which is your company) things could easily get out of control - clashing egos, 1 partner feeling the other is not doing enough at work, or at home, or both.
I've seen 2 of my close friends end up like that. Doesn't mean that's the norm, but things get ugly over a few years...
That doesn't mean you should not pursue the romantic relationship, just saying be cautious and don't over-commit too soon. Wait for the "honeymoon period" of the relationship (if you do end up moving forward) to pass and see how thinks look. In "normal" relationships, this period is usually anywhere from 6 months to a year or two...
I know a couple who married after founding a startup together. A VC said that they frown on it, because it meant that breakups would be very messy. But that's really the only negative. The upside is that you two would be the only ones who really understand the other's career. The current startup I work is is also run by a married couple, and the founders encouraged me to bring my wife into the company as well.
To be quite honest, I think it's difficult to avoid getting attracted to your co-founder. You'll be going a lot of places together. I've shared the same hotel & bedroom with my co-founder for months. And you tend to share all secrets together, very much like a married couple, if not more so.
To be quite honest, I think it's difficult to avoid getting attracted to your co-founder. You'll be going a lot of places together. I've shared the same hotel & bedroom with my co-founder for months. And you tend to share all secrets together, very much like a married couple, if not more so.
Love is more important than your startup :) enjoy....
+1 , but seriously no, iv seen this blow up in professional environments. may or may not be worth it.
Or it can be an asset :) Aren't we always hammered in the head that cofounder relationship is so super important, some people even compare it to marriage? OK that's actually an awkward analogy here..
Perhaps it's better to discuss this with the person herself. Work out the best way forward to make it work. Good luck!
Perhaps it's better to discuss this with the person herself. Work out the best way forward to make it work. Good luck!
^^ yep
My co-founder became my wife. It was the best move ever both personally and for the company. Just do it!
There's no way to know how this will work out. Could be great, could be a disaster. If you give it pass, you might end up with regrets. It's a big gamble no matter which way you go. If you're certain that feelings are mutual, it would seem that there's one person whose opinion matters more than random strangers on the internet.
Disclosure: haven't done this but I have a girlfriend of many years and a startup so here's my 2 cents.
Both these things are hard and as such both will have a hard time succeeding but they're both worth the trouble so I say go for it with these considerations:
You need to have an agreement that you will be professionals first while at work and that at work, work comes first. Your company is very important to you and emotions(good and bad) will tend to take precedence but you have to be cognizant of your emotions and try to separate them. You have to.
For this reason, have an agreement of sorts, a kin to a prenuptial agreement. Answer questions like if things go wrong and you can't work together anymore, what happens then? There's a reason companies have strict policy for workplace relationships and how they ought to be handled.
Both these things are hard and as such both will have a hard time succeeding but they're both worth the trouble so I say go for it with these considerations:
You need to have an agreement that you will be professionals first while at work and that at work, work comes first. Your company is very important to you and emotions(good and bad) will tend to take precedence but you have to be cognizant of your emotions and try to separate them. You have to.
For this reason, have an agreement of sorts, a kin to a prenuptial agreement. Answer questions like if things go wrong and you can't work together anymore, what happens then? There's a reason companies have strict policy for workplace relationships and how they ought to be handled.
Romance can happen to couples in the same school, workplace and community.
Ideally, a relationship should be mutually beneficial in and on itself. In the case of your cofounder, it's difficult, because the mutual benefits are already given.
I guess it would be harder to make sure the relationship would stay, but if you don't concern yourself with such things, sure.
I guess it would be harder to make sure the relationship would stay, but if you don't concern yourself with such things, sure.
Just make sure that you do not have a 50%-50% ownership arrangement (http://www.delawareonline.com/story/money/2017/07/17/transpe...)
It is more of handling the situation than stopping relationship/company. Be yourselves and things will fall into place.
Make sure you have very strong founder agreements. This way there is a way to divide & settle if anything happens.
I haven't gone through it but Sandy Lerner and Leonard Bosack cofounded Cisco while being romantically involved.
Share what you typed in this Ask with her. What you have written is pretty open and reasonably stated.
Never fuck the company, even if it is your company.
Marry them
This dear Abby stuff on hn is getting annoying.
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Your pre-existing relationship as cofounders means that pursuing things will have costs on people outside the relationship itself. In particular, investors and employees. You should have a plan for how to communicate this development.
This may be a little old-fashioned, but I'd take a serious look at getting married before seriously dating. You already know each other well and trust each other, and it appropriately signals the seriousness with which you're approaching things.
This may be a little old-fashioned, but I'd take a serious look at getting married before seriously dating. You already know each other well and trust each other, and it appropriately signals the seriousness with which you're approaching things.