Goals vs. Systems (2013)(blog.dilbert.com)
blog.dilbert.com
Goals vs. Systems (2013)
http://blog.dilbert.com/2013/11/18/goals-vs-systems/
35 comments
System:
- recurring tasks to ensure that you’re stocked on non-sugary snacks and meals
The system goal is to make the good choice the easy choice.
The system goal is to make the good choice the easy choice.
Objectives are projections of a desired state at a certain moment in time imo. Goals are the actual state at that moment in time. Stop consuming sugar wouldn't be a goal, but goal oriented objective behavior (because you can control/measure you sugar intake, materializing your objective this way). A goal would be a certain amount of lost weight.
The example I gave wasn’t a good one. I suggest something else: think of goals as a “module”, it has a function that servers the main objective.
This idea of modules is also found in Dr Duckworth’s book: Grit.
This idea of modules is also found in Dr Duckworth’s book: Grit.
The way I see it, goals are the actual thing while objectives are diffuse imaginations of something, or the zoomed out perspective. To get a clear picture of something, you have to zoom in from the diffuse one first. You define your goals after zooming in, because then it's clear what's reachable.
A hunter might have the objective to hunt down prey to satisfy his hunger. But at the time he's leaving for hunting he doesn't know what's exactly out there, he will define goals when he has gained a clear picture of the actual environment. That's when he will decide what to hunt and how.
He could decide to abandon his home and become a nomad, following the prey and have it always visible, and satisfy his main objective (hunting to eat) this way. Is this what you mean with module?
A hunter might have the objective to hunt down prey to satisfy his hunger. But at the time he's leaving for hunting he doesn't know what's exactly out there, he will define goals when he has gained a clear picture of the actual environment. That's when he will decide what to hunt and how.
He could decide to abandon his home and become a nomad, following the prey and have it always visible, and satisfy his main objective (hunting to eat) this way. Is this what you mean with module?
> The way I see it, goals are the actual thing while objectives are diffuse imaginations of something, or the zoomed out perspective. To get a clear picture of something, you have to zoom in from the diffuse one first. You define your goals after zooming in, because then it's clear what's reachable.
This is exactly what I meant !
This is exactly what I meant !
A roommate once told me: «if you focus on results, you'll see no change. if you focus on change, you'll see results»
The whole idea of ego depletion is controversial and according to this meta-analysis, probably does not exist.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjso.12236
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/bjso.12236
I haven't read the meta-analysis you linked, but based on my prior reading of this topic, I'd suggest it's more correct to say "It probably has not been measured." Whereas it could still exist, but just elude attempts to measure. I also realize you can say this about anything, but ego depletion is one of those topics where it may seem very likely to be true based on our own experience as living humans, but where measuring its effect across a set of humans is incredibly challenging.
Your counterclaim can as easily be said of acupuncture, homeopathy, mindfulness, etc. When a phenomenon that ought to be fairly straightforward to measure defeats repeated attempts to measure it, it is at a minimum fair to say that it probably doesn't exist.
controversial doesn't mean wrong. I've experienced it first-hand and taking steps to manage it has been very helpful. So, maybe what's actually going on will become clarified - maybe it's not ego depletion but some other system interplay; but that something is going on at all should be obvious at this point.
By the way, it is only in the past few years that you could replace willpower with knowledge about diet and exercise and get a good result. That’s because much of what science told us in those realms was wrong. When I was a kid, science told us to eat plenty of Wonder Bread
So true. In the UK the government is wringing it’s hands about obesity, introduced a sugar tax but the root cause is simple: it’s what was taught in schools in Home Ec in the 80s and 90s! Eat more bread and potatoes you can never have enough! But never touch fat, and only a little protein! Protein will destroy your kidneys! Basically the exact opposite of what you should do...
But rather than learning from that, they’re meddling again...
So true. In the UK the government is wringing it’s hands about obesity, introduced a sugar tax but the root cause is simple: it’s what was taught in schools in Home Ec in the 80s and 90s! Eat more bread and potatoes you can never have enough! But never touch fat, and only a little protein! Protein will destroy your kidneys! Basically the exact opposite of what you should do...
But rather than learning from that, they’re meddling again...
Even in the UK the food industry has too much influence over this stuff.
Great article and very sustainable way to make change. As willpower seems to be a finite resource, substituting knowledge for willpower is a powerful & sustainable strategy for changing habits.
I highly recommend the book he is referencing here.
I have read it and made a summary.
Edit: read the summary below.
Edit: read the summary below.
How to fail at everything and still win big
Ways to figure out the truthfulness of a statement:
- Personal experience
- Have a smart friend.
- Other people's experience.
- Common sense
- Science (stats and stuff)
- Pattern (also, biases)
"Follow your passion" is a shitty advice.
Look at every failure as a learning experience. Think of it as pre-success.
Usually when you failure is up to your eyebrows it means that success is hiding in plain sight.
Goal oriented people are losers. Suppose you've achieved your goal ? Then what ? And there goes circular reasoning.
Goal, in this context, is something that once achieved, it's gone.
The solution is being system oriented. In this context, it means doing something everyday. A habit.
Successful people are usually people who failed 95% of the time. What made them successful is a combination of hard work, luck, determination, brains and good timing.
How do you know that the timing is good ? You can't know, you have to try.
"If you want to be successful, figure out the price and pay it" — something to consider.
Stop wishing. Decide. Wishing starts at the head and stops there. Deciding means taking action, making a plan.
Be (reasonably) selfish. Put your needs first.
You're either a simplifier or an optimizer. The former means that your plans involve doing simple things; being satisfied when something is 80% good while the latter involves doing things to a certain degree of excellence. Unless you can control 90% of the variables in a situation, always err on the side of simplicity.
Affirmation exercise: writing something X amount of time first thing in the morning (making it like a self fulfilling prophecy).
Priorities, think of it as a target. The smaller, central circle is your health, the bigger circle is economics and the biggest of all is relationships. Health > Economics > Relationships. Always put your needs first. Be selfish.
Do things you enjoy in order to maximize your energy.
If there's an opportunity but you don't have the required set of skills, say yes then figure out a way to do it. Don't wait until you deem yourself ready.
Your job is to always be looking for a job because there's always something better for you. Abundance mentality.
If you're not in a good mood, smile. Note: smiling make you more attractive to others.
Sitting position affects your mood/energy.
Persistence, quitting is a step in the process of success. If something didn't take off from the beginning it's highly unlikely that it'll succeed so there's no need to be persistent and look like an idiot.
Success formula = every skill you acquire doubles your odds of success. Good + Good > Excellent.
Résumé trick: each unnecessary word = $100.
Knowledge formula: the more you know, the more you can know.
Particular set of skills that should be acquired: Public speaking, psychology, business writing, accounting, design, conversation, overcoming shyness (act it out – fake it 'till you make it), good grammar, persuasion
Storytelling:
1. Setup (start): keep it brief.
2. Pattern: establish a pattern that the story will stir from.
3. Foreshadowing: leaving some clues about where the story's going.
4. Characters: fill in with some character traits/personality.
5. Relatable: pick a story that the listeners will relate to.
6.The twist, plot twist (necessary)
Topics to avoid: food, dreams, tv, medical stuff.
Patterns, always be on the look for them. Covey's book:
1. Be proactive (decide, don't wish)
2. Take risks (not physical ones) – don't be afraid of embarrassment
3. Always keep learning
Humor, it is important. Just be human and you'll do fine. Traps to avoid: over complaining, mocking people (including yourself), puns and wordplay.
Affirmations, they help. Try them. E.g. "I, X, will be rich." (Include them in your morning routine) You can write them, say them or just think them. Note: for them to work, you have to have a 100% unambiguous want for them to happen.
Experts, if your gut feeling disagree with their assessment take it seriously.
Association programming, i.e. You are the average of the 5 people you speak with the most.
Note: if you had to take only one thing from the book it’s this: Decide, don’t wish. Be on the watch where the pendulum is shifting.
Ways to figure out the truthfulness of a statement:
- Personal experience
- Have a smart friend.
- Other people's experience.
- Common sense
- Science (stats and stuff)
- Pattern (also, biases)
"Follow your passion" is a shitty advice.
Look at every failure as a learning experience. Think of it as pre-success.
Usually when you failure is up to your eyebrows it means that success is hiding in plain sight.
Goal oriented people are losers. Suppose you've achieved your goal ? Then what ? And there goes circular reasoning.
Goal, in this context, is something that once achieved, it's gone.
The solution is being system oriented. In this context, it means doing something everyday. A habit.
Successful people are usually people who failed 95% of the time. What made them successful is a combination of hard work, luck, determination, brains and good timing.
How do you know that the timing is good ? You can't know, you have to try.
"If you want to be successful, figure out the price and pay it" — something to consider.
Stop wishing. Decide. Wishing starts at the head and stops there. Deciding means taking action, making a plan.
Be (reasonably) selfish. Put your needs first.
You're either a simplifier or an optimizer. The former means that your plans involve doing simple things; being satisfied when something is 80% good while the latter involves doing things to a certain degree of excellence. Unless you can control 90% of the variables in a situation, always err on the side of simplicity.
Affirmation exercise: writing something X amount of time first thing in the morning (making it like a self fulfilling prophecy).
Priorities, think of it as a target. The smaller, central circle is your health, the bigger circle is economics and the biggest of all is relationships. Health > Economics > Relationships. Always put your needs first. Be selfish.
Do things you enjoy in order to maximize your energy.
If there's an opportunity but you don't have the required set of skills, say yes then figure out a way to do it. Don't wait until you deem yourself ready.
Your job is to always be looking for a job because there's always something better for you. Abundance mentality.
If you're not in a good mood, smile. Note: smiling make you more attractive to others.
Sitting position affects your mood/energy.
Persistence, quitting is a step in the process of success. If something didn't take off from the beginning it's highly unlikely that it'll succeed so there's no need to be persistent and look like an idiot.
Success formula = every skill you acquire doubles your odds of success. Good + Good > Excellent.
Résumé trick: each unnecessary word = $100.
Knowledge formula: the more you know, the more you can know.
Particular set of skills that should be acquired: Public speaking, psychology, business writing, accounting, design, conversation, overcoming shyness (act it out – fake it 'till you make it), good grammar, persuasion
Storytelling:
1. Setup (start): keep it brief.
2. Pattern: establish a pattern that the story will stir from.
3. Foreshadowing: leaving some clues about where the story's going.
4. Characters: fill in with some character traits/personality.
5. Relatable: pick a story that the listeners will relate to.
6.The twist, plot twist (necessary)
Topics to avoid: food, dreams, tv, medical stuff.
Patterns, always be on the look for them. Covey's book:
1. Be proactive (decide, don't wish)
2. Take risks (not physical ones) – don't be afraid of embarrassment
3. Always keep learning
Humor, it is important. Just be human and you'll do fine. Traps to avoid: over complaining, mocking people (including yourself), puns and wordplay.
Affirmations, they help. Try them. E.g. "I, X, will be rich." (Include them in your morning routine) You can write them, say them or just think them. Note: for them to work, you have to have a 100% unambiguous want for them to happen.
Experts, if your gut feeling disagree with their assessment take it seriously.
Association programming, i.e. You are the average of the 5 people you speak with the most.
Note: if you had to take only one thing from the book it’s this: Decide, don’t wish. Be on the watch where the pendulum is shifting.
karimdag's summary is pretty complete (and very good). I also recommend the book - it's mostly very practical, generally free of the "one magic trick to fix your life" sentiment, and it has enough humor and voice to make it worth reading end to end. I thought I'd share the few tidbits I highlighted and got the most out of.
- He talks a lot about luck, but mostly in the context of managing it, not making it. His advice sort of combines the two old sayings about "the harder I work, the luckier I get" and "worker smarter not harder." Manage your opportunities and skills so you can capitalize on luck; find and take high percentage shots.
- "In our messy, flawed lives, the nearest we can get to truth is consistency".
- "Some people act much more decisively than others. And that can be both persuasive and useful. Decisiveness looks like leadership."
- He is a big proponent of the concept of managing personal energy ("The way I approach the problem of multiple priorities is by focusing on just one main metric: my energy"), I really agree with this and found this book to be one of the best treatments of the idea. He explicitly contrasts energy with passion: "Energy is good. Passion is bullshit". "Success causes passion more than passion causes success", i.e. don't rely on passion.
- "The trick to eating right is to keep willpower out of the equation for your diet. Laziness can make you choose healthy foods if you are clever enough to make those foods the most convenient in your house." In my experience, this works very well, and not just with food. Work hard to set yourself up for lazy success.
- That last bullet goes very well with what I think is the best advice in the book: "If you want success, figure out the price, then pay it." "Success has a price, but the reality is that the price is negotiable. If you pick the right system, the price will be a lot nearer what you're willing to pay". People often wish for things but never actually decide to have them. Set yourself up for success, focus on making smart choices to make things easy for yourself.
- He talks a lot about luck, but mostly in the context of managing it, not making it. His advice sort of combines the two old sayings about "the harder I work, the luckier I get" and "worker smarter not harder." Manage your opportunities and skills so you can capitalize on luck; find and take high percentage shots.
- "In our messy, flawed lives, the nearest we can get to truth is consistency".
- "Some people act much more decisively than others. And that can be both persuasive and useful. Decisiveness looks like leadership."
- He is a big proponent of the concept of managing personal energy ("The way I approach the problem of multiple priorities is by focusing on just one main metric: my energy"), I really agree with this and found this book to be one of the best treatments of the idea. He explicitly contrasts energy with passion: "Energy is good. Passion is bullshit". "Success causes passion more than passion causes success", i.e. don't rely on passion.
- "The trick to eating right is to keep willpower out of the equation for your diet. Laziness can make you choose healthy foods if you are clever enough to make those foods the most convenient in your house." In my experience, this works very well, and not just with food. Work hard to set yourself up for lazy success.
- That last bullet goes very well with what I think is the best advice in the book: "If you want success, figure out the price, then pay it." "Success has a price, but the reality is that the price is negotiable. If you pick the right system, the price will be a lot nearer what you're willing to pay". People often wish for things but never actually decide to have them. Set yourself up for success, focus on making smart choices to make things easy for yourself.
I also really liked the book. My review of it (on Amazon)
Scott Adams tells the story of his life, and describes his philosophies for how to succeed. There were four ideas in the book that really stood out for me.
1). Use systems, not goals. A goal could be complete a marathon. However, once you reach the goal, there is nothing to keep you going (unless you immediately set a new goal). A better way is to have a system. For example, the system can be to always run four times a week. A system lets you feel good every time you follow it, whereas a goal only makes you feel good when you reach it (but then its motivating power also disappears). Another example of goal versus system is on how to find your next job. If you are constantly on the lookout for a better job (even when you have one), you are much likelier to keep finding good ones than if you only look for another job when you have to.
2) Combination of skills. One way of becoming successful is to extremely good at one thing. But that is also extremely difficult. However, if you can be good (say top 20%) in more than one domain, then that combination of skills can be enough to make you very sought after. An example given in the book is for professionals in California. If you are good at your profession, and also speak Spanish fluently, you have a much better chance of succeeding. As Scott writes in the book, every skill you acquire doubles your chance of success. Put another way: good + good > excellent.
3) What all adults should know. On the subject of adding skills, Scott has a list of skills he thinks all adults should have. Some of those skills are: public speaking, psychology, business writing, accounting, design, and conversations. Chapter 21 goes through all of these (and more), and give advice on how to acquire them.
4) Learning from failures. This is a theme throughout the book. Each failure can teach you something. If you attempt something and fail, you at least gained experience. This experience will be useful for your next project.
These were the main takeaways for me. But there is other good stuff as well. The six filters for truth in the introduction are also good. How can you know if an idea works – make sure at least two of these agree: personal experience, experience of people you know, experts, scientific studies, common sense, pattern recognition. I also like his advice on how to say no to something effectively - say “I am not interested”. And the powerful story of the importance of praise: after a really bad presentation by a very shy student, the instructor did not scold the student. Instead he said “Wow, that was brave”. In summary, many good ideas worth discovering in here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R3BWIBLLW7XJC7
Scott Adams tells the story of his life, and describes his philosophies for how to succeed. There were four ideas in the book that really stood out for me.
1). Use systems, not goals. A goal could be complete a marathon. However, once you reach the goal, there is nothing to keep you going (unless you immediately set a new goal). A better way is to have a system. For example, the system can be to always run four times a week. A system lets you feel good every time you follow it, whereas a goal only makes you feel good when you reach it (but then its motivating power also disappears). Another example of goal versus system is on how to find your next job. If you are constantly on the lookout for a better job (even when you have one), you are much likelier to keep finding good ones than if you only look for another job when you have to.
2) Combination of skills. One way of becoming successful is to extremely good at one thing. But that is also extremely difficult. However, if you can be good (say top 20%) in more than one domain, then that combination of skills can be enough to make you very sought after. An example given in the book is for professionals in California. If you are good at your profession, and also speak Spanish fluently, you have a much better chance of succeeding. As Scott writes in the book, every skill you acquire doubles your chance of success. Put another way: good + good > excellent.
3) What all adults should know. On the subject of adding skills, Scott has a list of skills he thinks all adults should have. Some of those skills are: public speaking, psychology, business writing, accounting, design, and conversations. Chapter 21 goes through all of these (and more), and give advice on how to acquire them.
4) Learning from failures. This is a theme throughout the book. Each failure can teach you something. If you attempt something and fail, you at least gained experience. This experience will be useful for your next project.
These were the main takeaways for me. But there is other good stuff as well. The six filters for truth in the introduction are also good. How can you know if an idea works – make sure at least two of these agree: personal experience, experience of people you know, experts, scientific studies, common sense, pattern recognition. I also like his advice on how to say no to something effectively - say “I am not interested”. And the powerful story of the importance of praise: after a really bad presentation by a very shy student, the instructor did not scold the student. Instead he said “Wow, that was brave”. In summary, many good ideas worth discovering in here.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/review/R3BWIBLLW7XJC7
I'd be very interested before buying the book.
That'd be great!
Would love it.
Like everything, a balance is needed. Systems without goals are how we end up with enterprise bureaucracy and resistance to change.
I think that it's a bit more nuanced than that. I think that we end up with bureaucracy because goals are not aligned across silos (divisions, time, etc.) and the systems that are implemented to achieve those goals overlap and create redundancies and inefficiencies.
James Clear writes quite a bit about processes over goals, he has some great stuff. https://jamesclear.com/
My writing for the Wall Street Journal, along with my public practice on this blog, attracted the attention of book publishers, and that attention turned into a book deal. And the book deal generated speaking requests that are embarrassingly lucrative. So the payday for blogging eventually arrived, but I didn’t know in advance what path it would take. My blogging has kicked up dozens of business opportunities over the past years, so it could have taken any direction.
I wonder if a cartoon had anything to do with that
I wonder if a cartoon had anything to do with that
Meta: I want to take a minute to thank the community (and likely the mods) for maintaining a healthy discussion on this post in spite of the author's controversial politics. I feel like we should be able to evaluate his other ideas on their merits rather than devolving into a political fight.
Thank you.
Thank you.
(2013)
Previous submissions:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13462788
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11767300
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6873386
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6922713
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13462788
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11767300
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6873386
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6922713
Available to everybody by clicking on the link labeled “past” at the top. I don’t know why you chose to highlight those specific four submissions – only one of those received any comments, and that one got a total of three comments.
Not that it matters, but this was the submission that garnered, I believe, the most traction.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6547912
On topic: I was just mentioned this book to a coworker last week. I highly suggest Scott Adams' book How to Fail at Almost Anything and Still Win Big.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6547912
On topic: I was just mentioned this book to a coworker last week. I highly suggest Scott Adams' book How to Fail at Almost Anything and Still Win Big.
What's happening is it's getting a lot cheaper to buy votes on Hacker News. People have offered to do it for me to get the O(n) search papers I resubmit every quarter to the front page. Folks assure me "it's way cheaper than it used to be!"
* Goals are better for the short-term (we’re talking days and weeks).
* Systems (naturally) are better for the long-term (months and years).
* The best way to system-ize something is to make it a habit.
* A system without an objective is useless and inefficient.
* Which to use ? It depends on your personality AND the task at hand.
* Defining an objective is paramount.
* Objective =/= goal. An objective is of the highest order, a goal is a part of an objective. E.g. Objective: Lose fat, goal: stop consuming sugar.