Why Is There So Much Saudi Money in American Universities?(nytimes.com)
nytimes.com
Why Is There So Much Saudi Money in American Universities?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/03/magazine/saudi-arabia-american-universities.html
111 comments
I don't understand the protests. I would expect educating Saudi youth in exceptionally liberal institutions like universities in the Northeast to have a net liberalizing effect on the Saudi government and culture long term. Is this not a better use of Saudi funds then e.g. buying more weapons?
It's a double edged sword. For a few reasons.
Firstly it maintains an elite who are much better educated, and skilled, than those at home.
Secondly, when there's lots of foreign students from the same place, they just clique up. In my university there were a lot of Chinese students that hung around almost exclusively with other Chinese students.
One year I represented the student common room, a sort of social club/support network for everyone living in one of the 20 odd accommodation halls.
Despite trying, the 50-100 Chinese in our hall never mixed, keeping themselves extremely secluded from the rest of us. I remember chatting regularly with one person.
To put that in context, I knew the name and would at least exchange greetings with virtually every one of the other 200 odd people in the hall.
There were a lot of other foreign students because it was a self catering hall. They were better, though still ultimately formed their own, mixed nationality, foreign students clique within a few weeks. It was more accessible though as the shared language was English.
Firstly it maintains an elite who are much better educated, and skilled, than those at home.
Secondly, when there's lots of foreign students from the same place, they just clique up. In my university there were a lot of Chinese students that hung around almost exclusively with other Chinese students.
One year I represented the student common room, a sort of social club/support network for everyone living in one of the 20 odd accommodation halls.
Despite trying, the 50-100 Chinese in our hall never mixed, keeping themselves extremely secluded from the rest of us. I remember chatting regularly with one person.
To put that in context, I knew the name and would at least exchange greetings with virtually every one of the other 200 odd people in the hall.
There were a lot of other foreign students because it was a self catering hall. They were better, though still ultimately formed their own, mixed nationality, foreign students clique within a few weeks. It was more accessible though as the shared language was English.
I think a lot of foreign students come to the US wanting to make friends with Americans and more-or-less “assimilate” but then quickly realize their English language skills aren’t as strong as they thought and that the cultural differences are larger than they thought and truthfully, that Americans aren’t as welcoming and tolerant of those differences as they thought. So they fallback to a much more comfortable situation by hanging out with other fellow transplants in what is still a very foreign and challenging situation.
A much smaller scale example of this is when I studied for a semester in France. I thought my French was decent but it turned out to be barely comprehensible by native French-speakers which doesn’t make for easy or fun friendships.
A much smaller scale example of this is when I studied for a semester in France. I thought my French was decent but it turned out to be barely comprehensible by native French-speakers which doesn’t make for easy or fun friendships.
In Finland the Erasmus/foreign exchange students of universities also tend to hang out among themselves and the native Finns don't really care about them.
One thing I've heard is that the Finns consider many of the exchange students to be a bit juvenile since in their home countries people often live with parents until their 30s. Whereas most Finnish students move out and become fully independent by age 20.
One thing I've heard is that the Finns consider many of the exchange students to be a bit juvenile since in their home countries people often live with parents until their 30s. Whereas most Finnish students move out and become fully independent by age 20.
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where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s?
Kiwi here, a lot of us move out and go flatting at the first possible chance we get - which is right after high school/first year of uni.
Kiwi here, a lot of us move out and go flatting at the first possible chance we get - which is right after high school/first year of uni.
Lol. How about pretty much everywhere in Asia? China? Singapore? Korea? The "norm" is to live at home until you get married, when you use all the money you saved living rent-free at home to put down a hefty deposit on a house. I know actual millionaires who still live with their parents!
Given the difficulty of affording a deposit for new home buyers who have been renting since 18 (like me - Aussie here), I can see the logic in it.
I would go so far to say that the only time this is not the norm is when children move to a big city to work, leaving their parents back in their smaller hometowns. Then they live as cheaply as possible in dorms that exist for this purpose. There's a whole infrastructure.
Given the difficulty of affording a deposit for new home buyers who have been renting since 18 (like me - Aussie here), I can see the logic in it.
I would go so far to say that the only time this is not the norm is when children move to a big city to work, leaving their parents back in their smaller hometowns. Then they live as cheaply as possible in dorms that exist for this purpose. There's a whole infrastructure.
Adding Spain and most of southern europe to the list.
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Still we can agree on the fact a millionaire living at hotel mom sounds outrageous.
Sounds outrageous, but it can also be clever in a counter-intuitive way.
Why is it outrageous ?
It's sounds outrageous to ears that value individualism and "independence" over community and family ties. Money is typically an enabler for independence in such societies, so a millionaire who doesn't use their money to acquire "independence" from their mom seems like an oddity.
yeah, on second thought, you're right regarding Asia.... to a degree. I worked in Singapore for a while and a lot of people my age didn't live at home, and a few did. Singapore was a bit different though, it's bloody expensive there.
In the Philippines I found that depending where you were from, depended on whether you left home as early as possible for better opportunities.
Never heard of the dorms thing though.
My wife and I will buy a house one day, but it won't be near any of the "big" NZ cities. Too expensive.
I see the logic too, but surely your mental health must suffer!
In the Philippines I found that depending where you were from, depended on whether you left home as early as possible for better opportunities.
Never heard of the dorms thing though.
My wife and I will buy a house one day, but it won't be near any of the "big" NZ cities. Too expensive.
I see the logic too, but surely your mental health must suffer!
The reason people buy expensive houses in expensive areas is because of enhanced social networking and housing market stability. Strong communities tend to fare better in economic downturns. Moving to the countryside increases the probability of social isolation. This has far reaching consequences on mental and physical health.
> where on earth is it the norm to be living with your parents until you're in your 30s?
The south of Europe. Spain is probably the most outstanding country in this regard.
The south of Europe. Spain is probably the most outstanding country in this regard.
Also southeast Asia! In the Philippines, for instance, it's quite common for both women and men to live with their parents until they get married.
Almost every developing country + Southern Europe. So most of the world.
I would assume it's the norm in most developing countries where young students cannot pay their own rent. At least it's the norm here (Venezuela), even before the crisis.
Interesting! I remember when I first went flatting, it was 4 of my mates. So rent+utilities divided by 4 people made it pretty easy. and it's not like NZ is cheap by any means.
“22 percent of people ages 23 to 37 now living with their folks from 11.7 percent of people the same ages back in 2001”
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-millennials-are-living-at-...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/more-millennials-are-living-at-...
Places where real estate isn't cheap essentially. More common in old world than colonies.
My school has a decent population of both Chinese nationals and Chinese-Americans who speak the language at home. The Chinese nationals are either friendly with everyone (with varying degrees of skill in English) or completely cliquey - excluding even the Chinese Americans who speak their language.
Totally, I think the knowledge about the culture is also very important in such blind social setting. Otherwise the conversation ends fairly quickly. I do think most Americans are quite welcoming but it’s quite awkward when it comes to mutual knowledge of the other’s culture
France is a very special case, so is Quebec. Your French was probably more than intelligible to natives, they scoffed you out of nationalistic pride, how dare you try speaking the holy language of culture and fine art.
You seem to think you know better than the parent commenter what their experience was, despite the fact that they were there and you were not. Interestingly, what you imply is a more negative view of the experience rather than a more positive, which may make one think you hold a prejudiced view of the French specifically for some unstated reason.
Have you been abroad? and compared your experiences to France? Speaking broken Czech in Prague gets smiles, encouragement and comments about Slavic language similarities. Doing the same in France results in evil eye and being treated as an asshole.
Not uniform across France, either. If you try your broken French in out-of-the-way villages in Brittany, you will generally once again get your smiles and encouragement. In Paris, more of the evil eye.
The Netherlands is interesting. It's nearly guaranteed that their English is better than your Dutch, so if you try anything more than "good morning" then they will generally rapidly switch to English. More politely than in France, but with a firmness that indicates no desire at all to waste time on communication problems when none are necessary.
The Netherlands is interesting. It's nearly guaranteed that their English is better than your Dutch, so if you try anything more than "good morning" then they will generally rapidly switch to English. More politely than in France, but with a firmness that indicates no desire at all to waste time on communication problems when none are necessary.
You can even have it the other way around. An English colleague of mine tried to be polite and speak in (obviously non-native) Dutch to a Dutch lady in a super market once. The lady got offended by it and said "I _do_ speak English, you know". As if, rather than for practice, he tried to speak Dutch because he assumed she couldn't hold up her end of a conversation in English.
It's called the expat paradox.
I have, in multiple countries, including France. My French is far from perfect, but I don’t recall being insulted or derided for my attempts to use it, even in Paris which tends to be the epicenter of these experiences for others from what I hear.
I do wonder if this is a cultural difference as another fellow commenter mentioned - maybe I was corrected and did not take it as an insult (and don’t even recall it), because I am not originally English or American.
Anyway, my point was that you were propagating a negative stereotype, and not based on your own experience even. The world has enough negativity already... It’s not nice.
I do wonder if this is a cultural difference as another fellow commenter mentioned - maybe I was corrected and did not take it as an insult (and don’t even recall it), because I am not originally English or American.
Anyway, my point was that you were propagating a negative stereotype, and not based on your own experience even. The world has enough negativity already... It’s not nice.
I spoke pretty broken French in Paris and all I received was kindness. Obviously YMMV but I wouldn't paint with a broad brush like this.
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I've never been to France but I've heard this stereotype many, many times elsewhere online: that the French don't want foreigners speaking French even if their French skills are good, because they don't like to hear even the slightest imperfection in pronunciation or usage, seeing it as some sort of defilement of their language. The stereotype is especially pronounced for Parisians, and appears to only exist for European French. No clue how accurate it is, but I've heard it repeated so often that I can understand why the parent posted that. Would be interested in input from tourists and French natives regarding the stereotype. Given the French government's unusually stringent prescriptivism, which I think is shared by much or most of the populace, this seems plausible on the face.
> they don't like to hear even the slightest imperfection in pronunciation or usage, seeing it as some sort of defilement of their language.
As a native French speaker, this strikes me as odd, since it is typically a foreign thing to consider French as the epitome of spoken languages, that makes most French people I know scratch their heads uncomfortably. I interact with foreigners everyday, most of the time in English. Most of them are PhD students that spend at least three years in France, and usually acquire some French along the way, to varying degrees of proficiency (from greetings to highly technical/rhetorical conversations)
I know some of them that handle it well enough for basic conversations, and I will usually go along with them until it becomes difficult for either party to understand the other.
Actually, I might be a bit too eager to switch back to English as I have a stereotypical view of their possible interactions with other French people, who might not "excel" at English. Usually, I will not correct them on a word unless it was the root cause for a misunderstanding, or they asked me to tell them when they do a mistake. I am also happy to discuss grammar and etymology topics, as I am usually curious about other languages as well. I do not want to keep them from learning French, nor force them to speak it, so I'll play along what I guessed their intentions were, based on our previous interactions.
On the other hand, we are taught French at school with very rigid rules, which are tweaked from time to time (by the "Académie Française"). This helps with uniformization, but could be argued either way. And finally, it might be a bit elitist of me, but a lot of French people struggle with proper writing (French is much harder to write than it is to read or speak), which I think looks very unprofessional and neglected. Quite a lot of people will frown on this (at least those that make fewer mistakes), though foreigners usually get a free pass (from myself at least, not quite sure about others).
I hope that clears things up a bit. I find it a very interesting topic, as are the issues of social integration and forming small cliques.
As a native French speaker, this strikes me as odd, since it is typically a foreign thing to consider French as the epitome of spoken languages, that makes most French people I know scratch their heads uncomfortably. I interact with foreigners everyday, most of the time in English. Most of them are PhD students that spend at least three years in France, and usually acquire some French along the way, to varying degrees of proficiency (from greetings to highly technical/rhetorical conversations)
I know some of them that handle it well enough for basic conversations, and I will usually go along with them until it becomes difficult for either party to understand the other.
Actually, I might be a bit too eager to switch back to English as I have a stereotypical view of their possible interactions with other French people, who might not "excel" at English. Usually, I will not correct them on a word unless it was the root cause for a misunderstanding, or they asked me to tell them when they do a mistake. I am also happy to discuss grammar and etymology topics, as I am usually curious about other languages as well. I do not want to keep them from learning French, nor force them to speak it, so I'll play along what I guessed their intentions were, based on our previous interactions.
On the other hand, we are taught French at school with very rigid rules, which are tweaked from time to time (by the "Académie Française"). This helps with uniformization, but could be argued either way. And finally, it might be a bit elitist of me, but a lot of French people struggle with proper writing (French is much harder to write than it is to read or speak), which I think looks very unprofessional and neglected. Quite a lot of people will frown on this (at least those that make fewer mistakes), though foreigners usually get a free pass (from myself at least, not quite sure about others).
I hope that clears things up a bit. I find it a very interesting topic, as are the issues of social integration and forming small cliques.
I think it is a cultural difference.
I'm French. When I mispronounce something people will correct me. That's how we learn and it is expected.
Now when I voicechat with American people and say something they don't understand I just get some "polite" silence.
So I think it is a case of people taking offense because of a culture difference. "They're white, using the same characters as us so they're the same", nope.
I'm French. When I mispronounce something people will correct me. That's how we learn and it is expected.
Now when I voicechat with American people and say something they don't understand I just get some "polite" silence.
So I think it is a case of people taking offense because of a culture difference. "They're white, using the same characters as us so they're the same", nope.
My first girlfriend was French but from New Caledonia. When the family was in Paris, the Parisians treated them like shit. The Parisians treat locals as shit when the Parisians go for a country drive. Regional locals speaking with regional accents complained that the local did not speak properly.
No one hates the Parisians like the people from Marseille or Lyon.
No one hates the Parisians like the people from Marseille or Lyon.
It’s true in cities as young professionals too. It’s often a group of friends where everyone moved to the city after school or a group of friends that grew up there.
I saw the same behavior for foreign students studying in China, they only hangout with their own group due to language and culture barriers. My university has lots of foreign students but i have never meet any of them in social settings except one for like 10 minutes during my 4 years undergrad.
Even within Chinese in China, people from the same region tend to hangout much more due to language and culture differences. I grew up speaking both mandarin and cantonese natively so i made friends with both sides and saw the same pattern.
I would say this is just human nature. It is amplified for Chinese students in the west because there are more of them ;)
Believe me, they really want to hangout with native students as well, but it’s not easy. It’s like you know going to gym is good for you, but because it requires extra hard work every day, you ended up skipping it.
Even within Chinese in China, people from the same region tend to hangout much more due to language and culture differences. I grew up speaking both mandarin and cantonese natively so i made friends with both sides and saw the same pattern.
I would say this is just human nature. It is amplified for Chinese students in the west because there are more of them ;)
Believe me, they really want to hangout with native students as well, but it’s not easy. It’s like you know going to gym is good for you, but because it requires extra hard work every day, you ended up skipping it.
> the 20 odd accommodation halls
> the other 200 odd people in the hall
For anyone unfamiliar with this somewhat uncommon usage, Matt is not saying that these are odd accommodation halls or odd people (strange or unusual).
The "odd" here means that the preceding number is approximate - there are about 200 people in this hall, and about 20 halls in total.
It's usually written with a hyphen to make this more clear:
"the 20-odd accommodation halls" or "the other 200-odd people in the hall."
> the other 200 odd people in the hall
For anyone unfamiliar with this somewhat uncommon usage, Matt is not saying that these are odd accommodation halls or odd people (strange or unusual).
The "odd" here means that the preceding number is approximate - there are about 200 people in this hall, and about 20 halls in total.
It's usually written with a hyphen to make this more clear:
"the 20-odd accommodation halls" or "the other 200-odd people in the hall."
China is a bit of an exceptional case. Student exit visas require classes from the party strongly discouraging making too many local friends.
Source please?
Edit: I can't even ask for a reference without getting downvoted again and again. Nice.
Edit: I can't even ask for a reference without getting downvoted again and again. Nice.
Are you asking for a source that confirms that China requires students (and every other national) to have an exit visa to leave the country?
What? Do you mean the state sponsored student or student in general? There is no exit visa. And there is no classes.
The Saudi students are not from an elite class. They had huge abroad scholarship programs open to every high school graduate that includes full tuition, travel, and living expense. Every year grade cutoffs are announced and applicants are awarded scholarships. Most Saudis in US universities are actually low to middle class students who graduated highschool with good grades. This is one of the strongest forces of social mobility I have seen in any country.
In terms of liberalization, Saudis who studied abroad are the leaders of the liberal movements within the country. They don't transform into liberal Americans, but they do shift into liberal Saudis. Liberal Saudis are still on average more conservative than their American classmates, but back home they create the shift we are seeing today in a progressive direction.
Both effects are intended by the government. The social mobility aspect is part of the Saudi welfare state, and it adds great economic value through knowledge transfer. The liberalization is part of a long campaign to loosen the grip of religious leaders on the community and consolidate power.
Source: I went to university abroad on the King Abdullah scholarship program.
In terms of liberalization, Saudis who studied abroad are the leaders of the liberal movements within the country. They don't transform into liberal Americans, but they do shift into liberal Saudis. Liberal Saudis are still on average more conservative than their American classmates, but back home they create the shift we are seeing today in a progressive direction.
Both effects are intended by the government. The social mobility aspect is part of the Saudi welfare state, and it adds great economic value through knowledge transfer. The liberalization is part of a long campaign to loosen the grip of religious leaders on the community and consolidate power.
Source: I went to university abroad on the King Abdullah scholarship program.
They also discover they don't need to assimilate since every western city, at least in North America, has enough Chinese citizens and community resources where you can easily survive with just Mandarin/Cantonese and minimal English.
There are plenty of Chinese people here in Toronto who have been here for two plus decades and still have very poor English (or feign as much). Because they live in Chinese communities, shop at Chinese grocery stores, and eat at Chinese restaurants.
It's their kids who learn English or the ones entering a work environment where English is used.
There are plenty of Chinese people here in Toronto who have been here for two plus decades and still have very poor English (or feign as much). Because they live in Chinese communities, shop at Chinese grocery stores, and eat at Chinese restaurants.
It's their kids who learn English or the ones entering a work environment where English is used.
Short term yes, but long term, it's our best chance to share values, learn about each others, and grow out of the bubble of our society.
Short travel is a mind opener. But living abroad dye your soul forever.
Short travel is a mind opener. But living abroad dye your soul forever.
This was one of the big complaints when there was a push for a diversity center at Clemson a couple of years ago. It was pitched exclusively as a place for people of other cultures to use as a hang out, separated from the rest of the university students...which seemed like exactly the opposite of what increasing diversity should be aiming for.
Admittedly social event/club is one of the most awkward activities one could host for native Chineses. Similar event only happens when people are pushed (by their parents) to arranged group dating event. Interactive games of small group works the best.
I've seen this with happen with students from the same us high school as well.
I remember touring Harvard around '91 when I was looking at colleges. I recall very clearly thinking: "Wow, I will never fit in here with these elites." I never even applied and probably couldn't have afforded it, anyways. Even back then it was very obvious what those schools represent. I don't really care if it is US elite or Saudi elite, the idea that we have an elite class such as it is is incredibly counterproductive to keeping and maintaining a free and open society. We're seeing the the fruits of that elitism right before our very eyes, those chosen to run companies and sit on boards of directors are not the regular people. They are the insiders, invited because of their status. They rotate in and out of government and academia.
So not only is elitism bad for other countries, it is seriously bad for the US as well!
So not only is elitism bad for other countries, it is seriously bad for the US as well!
As an Asian-American, I have to say that I envied the Chinese who could stay amongst themselves. Just saying.
Can you expand and explain what you mean?
Not asian-american but i have read about their thoughts on things. From what i gather atleast socially, asian americans feel like second class citizens in western societies, no matter how hard they study, they can't rise in management positions (bamboo ceiling), men are emasculated in the media (leading to a lot of their women favoring people of other races) etc... I think this is what the op meant, in chinese soceity, they would be the default, and so wouldn't face problems in areas which they feel are out of their control.
Since OP refuses to explain, my uneducated guess is that OP is facing similar issues that people in r/hapas are facing.
Not sure why OP got downvoted.
Not sure why OP got downvoted.
given the downvotes I just got, the nationalism on HN lately, and the narcissism in US-centric discourse in general, no, I do not wish to explain or expand on this
it is to the US-centric benefit that I should mention it, or expend the energy to explain myself, not the other way around
it is to the US-centric benefit that I should mention it, or expend the energy to explain myself, not the other way around
I think I partly recognize the feeling and the situation you're alluding to, but still: if you're not willing to post substantive information, it's best not to comment. Posting a vague and provocative allusion and then refusing to answer normal requests for clarification doesn't help the discussion here.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
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That sounds like the "not my job to educate you" mentality.
If they are the one complaining about something yes it is their job to educate from basic communication alone. No matter how frustrating it may be forcing others into playing a game of Mao is not reasonable.
If they are the one complaining about something yes it is their job to educate from basic communication alone. No matter how frustrating it may be forcing others into playing a game of Mao is not reasonable.
FYI, I upvoted your initial comment, but downvoted this one.
hombre_fatal(1)
Kim Jong Un was educated in Switzerland, which has a very strong democratic environment, yet it didn’t change about how he ran North Korea.
I don't wish to defend the regime in any way. However, do consider that while he has power, he's also the figurehead. There may be real constraints upon how much change he can meaningfully effect without the system falling apart entirely, or resulting in his removal if he treads on other powerful people's toes. He wouldn't be the first dictator which had to walk along a knife edge to maintain their power base and security.
There is sure no better way to show how you are constrained by the system than by ordering the assassination of your exiled brother with nerve gas in a foreign country !
The OP’s entire point is that often such decisions may be compelled by the opinions of the generals surrounding Kim. It has often been claimed that while a godlike aura is created around the Kim dynasty for the North Korean masses, decisionmaking has always involved negotiation between the Kims and senior military officials.
By senior military, do you mean his late uncle ? Assassinated as well.
No dictator has absolute power. They can't rule a nation single-handedly. Their will is enacted through others. There are many generals, and in essence an entire ruling class who run the country, and benefit from the status quo. He rules through them, and his power depends upon their consent to follow his leadership.
His uncle is almost an irrelevance. The system continued. It might have even been in the interest of others in that system that his uncle was removed to benefit them in some way. But, none of that really has much bearing upon the original point:
His rule depends upon others, and they will place constraints upon what he can and cannot do. It doesn't matter how enlightened, or how despicable, his wishes are. It will depend upon others to carry them out, or to refuse to do so. And they might have their own agendas and demands as well. That is what I meant by walking on a knife edge. He must balance competing internal interests, plus external ones, in order to maintain his position and the stability of the nation. One critical mistake, and he's gone. The same applies to all of the other people in power there as well. They benefit from their position, but one mistake and they are gone too. Not nice, but that's the way it is.
His uncle is almost an irrelevance. The system continued. It might have even been in the interest of others in that system that his uncle was removed to benefit them in some way. But, none of that really has much bearing upon the original point:
His rule depends upon others, and they will place constraints upon what he can and cannot do. It doesn't matter how enlightened, or how despicable, his wishes are. It will depend upon others to carry them out, or to refuse to do so. And they might have their own agendas and demands as well. That is what I meant by walking on a knife edge. He must balance competing internal interests, plus external ones, in order to maintain his position and the stability of the nation. One critical mistake, and he's gone. The same applies to all of the other people in power there as well. They benefit from their position, but one mistake and they are gone too. Not nice, but that's the way it is.
Plenty of historical examples from authoritarian states of generals conspiring to do away with a fellow general they don’t like for whatever reason.
I certainly don't doubt that he has considerable freedom of action in some areas, perhaps so long as his upper echelons agree with it. However, that doesn't imply he has the same freedom of action in all areas.
It's not as if his "upper" echelon had a strange tendency to get suicided either.
Would you argue that his education in Switzerland made North Korea any worse?
Not GP, but his education in Switzerland clarifies the fact that the leadership does not believe the propaganda they give to their populace. Kim is very aware that the promise of better living conditions is not a "lie manufactured by the West." He knows how bad his people have it compared to the rest of the world and still chooses to run his country the way he does. Food shortages are not a thing in Switzerland and also not a problem in his palace, but they are in other parts of DPRK.
So maybe his Swiss education doesn't make his citizens worse off, but we do know it's not some misled idealist at the helm, but rather a dictator that knows full well what he's doing.
So maybe his Swiss education doesn't make his citizens worse off, but we do know it's not some misled idealist at the helm, but rather a dictator that knows full well what he's doing.
It certainly didn’t improve things either. He is a murderer like the rest of the family.
Going for a proof by contradiction?
What you should be doing is looking at the averages. Are educated people in general more liberal?
What you should be doing is looking at the averages. Are educated people in general more liberal?
He isn’t the only warlord/despot/war criminal receive at least some education in liberal Western schools. Perhaps either side to the argument presents a non falsifiable hypothesis given the sample sizes involved.
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Well, North Korea actually became much, much, much more free (in the inside world) than when e.g. Kim Jung Il or Kim Il Sung ran the country. At least, Kim Jung Eun looks like he is trying to. (He has a pretty open mind.)
It's more of the military (of North Korea) that's keep stopping from e.g. negotiating with the U.S or concentrating on the economy.
It's more of the military (of North Korea) that's keep stopping from e.g. negotiating with the U.S or concentrating on the economy.
He's using his education to write beautiful letters to other world leaders.
I would expect educating Saudi youth in exceptionally liberal institutions like universities in the Northeast to have a net liberalizing effect on the Saudi government and culture long term.
The article points out that very few Saudi youth end up in America's best schools. The vast majority go to second-tier schools because their academic levels keep them from getting into the best schools.
The protests are about the elite institutions accepting funding from the Saudis, not students.
The article points out that very few Saudi youth end up in America's best schools. The vast majority go to second-tier schools because their academic levels keep them from getting into the best schools.
The protests are about the elite institutions accepting funding from the Saudis, not students.
> I don't understand the protests.
They were about the human rights abuses and war which some people find worth protesting regardless of whether or not a handful of wealthy elites get to attend a liberal university.
They were about the human rights abuses and war which some people find worth protesting regardless of whether or not a handful of wealthy elites get to attend a liberal university.
Saudis buy weapons BECAUSE they are educated in liberal institutions. Elites around the world have been sending their children to be educated in the West for centuries; what they learn here is an affinity for Western elites, because they are being educated along with the scions of Western families. Then they go home and govern their countries according to the dictates of the liberal order, viz., support the Washington consensus, partner with western companies, buy weapons, etc.
Yes, a big networking event amongst elites for future connections, deal flow and capital
What the professors and course material say has very little to do with that.
Also, people play within the rules of their country. Even the frontmen (heads of state) have to maintain consensus with their warhawking generals.
What the professors and course material say has very little to do with that.
Also, people play within the rules of their country. Even the frontmen (heads of state) have to maintain consensus with their warhawking generals.
It's not, if anything, their Western education and living in Western surroundings prove to them (and they are sons of the elite and take control of their countries when they grow up), how incompatible their countries are, with the free world. They can't not see that trying to bring anything of that pleasant liberal world they see as students, into their land of savagery, will result in nothing but endless bloodshed and collapse of society.
It's easy to free up and re-civilize some corners of the Earth which were oppressed for a short while by foreign force, say Eastern Europe which suffered for a while in the hands of Commies: they are happy to get back to their normalcy which is, being somewhat second-rate but more or less coherent, Western offshoot. Totally different thing is if you are speaking of nation that was formed in and by dictatorship and oppression of all kinds - from civil to religious - since time immemorial.
It's easy to free up and re-civilize some corners of the Earth which were oppressed for a short while by foreign force, say Eastern Europe which suffered for a while in the hands of Commies: they are happy to get back to their normalcy which is, being somewhat second-rate but more or less coherent, Western offshoot. Totally different thing is if you are speaking of nation that was formed in and by dictatorship and oppression of all kinds - from civil to religious - since time immemorial.
When reputable institutions refuse money, they make a strong statement about the virtues of the donor. This can turn the donor into an international pariah and make it harder to gloss over abuses/crimes back home. Of course, whether this effect outweighs the benefits of accepting money is debatable.
Most saudi students just come to party.
The Julia lab is seemingly one of those beneficiaries [1].
[1] https://karpinski.org/images/2017,bezanson,julia%20-%20a%20f...
[1] https://karpinski.org/images/2017,bezanson,julia%20-%20a%20f...
I did my phd at an R1 university with a large international student population mostly from China and South Korea. When I graduated I got a adjunct job at a nearby liberal arts college of about 1/3 the size and was surprised that most of their international students were Saudis.
“Pecunia non olet” (Money does not stink) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecunia_non_olet
Because the Saudis have a ton of money to spend; more than they can spend locally.
What a weird theory.
How is it strange?
Spending all that money locally (and they try very hard to with welfare schemes and building new cities like Kingdom City and whatnot) will just spike inflation, since the economy can only use money so quickly. It's what happened to the Spanish when they destroyed their economy by mining all that colonial gold and silver. https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/Prices-an...
Spending all that money locally (and they try very hard to with welfare schemes and building new cities like Kingdom City and whatnot) will just spike inflation, since the economy can only use money so quickly. It's what happened to the Spanish when they destroyed their economy by mining all that colonial gold and silver. https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/Prices-an...
The Saudis are forming opinions, so they're giving you money.
Is there an alternate article link without paywall?
This should help:
"If you're using Chrome 74+, you can set a flag that prevents sites from detecting that you're using Incognito mode. Go to chrome://flags and enable "Filesystem API in Incognito". That's it! Sites won't know you're in Incognito anymore (until they find a new sneaky way)."
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20375023
"If you're using Chrome 74+, you can set a flag that prevents sites from detecting that you're using Incognito mode. Go to chrome://flags and enable "Filesystem API in Incognito". That's it! Sites won't know you're in Incognito anymore (until they find a new sneaky way)."
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20375023
Thanks for the trick HeWhoLurksLate, it worked!
You're welcome! I wish I was clever enough to come up with it, the GP has where I found it.
Bittercynic meantioned in another comment on a different post the following method.
“Fwiw adding
0.0.0.0 samizdat-graph
to your /etc/hosts fixes this for me”
“Fwiw adding
0.0.0.0 samizdat-graph
to your /etc/hosts fixes this for me”
> samizdat-graph
what? that's not even a valid domain.
what? that's not even a valid domain.
should be
0.0.0.0 samizdat-graphql.nytimes.com
Thanks! I really appreciate your tip!
Hmm, interesting GQL endpoint name choice by NYT devs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samizdat
Works great with javascript disabled
For mobile, download Chrome beta, and then open in incognito mode. You'll get the 10 articles left message.
For Firefox you can try https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox
Use Incognito Mode.